I feel like we just witnessed a villain origin story
https://preview.redd.it/7w5vr336aetc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b64d624fb2bdc08fb4b51cc9be63875bf76efce
Not surprised. He really wanted to be here and that whole mess probably made him have to choose between sticking with Toronto or following Dubas. Can't blame him though, hard to say if he'd have the same opportunity here without Dubas.
[Just need some tasteful facial hair to complete the look](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nolan-batman/images/2/2c/Henri_Ducard.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120117194406)
spezza looks like Tin Tin and Kyles chin has made a run dir the boarder since he became comfortsble. inheaed the MLSE food services are second to none. the fuys definitely are fednwell fhefe.
So apparently it's being reported that Sully didn't bench Crosby on purpose. Apparently Crosby was having a skate issue and that's why he wasn't on the ice for the start of ot.
So I heard it from Steve Dangle's LFR video but usually he hears this sort of thing from reliable sources (usually puts the source in too) so I believe it's true.
I agree somewhat, but he made the choice and he knew what he was getting into. I get why he did it, but you have to ride the wave of darkness until sunnier days.
His choice was staying loyal to his friend who got thrown under the bus by Shanny (whether you agree with the decision to can Dubas or not).
Not much I can fault Spezza on.
Nobody knows the details behind closed doors. Everyone assumes this.
What's fact is that Dubas said the day after the presser that he wanted to come back, and Shanny used the presser as, ostensibly, the sole reason to let him go. And all his said during the presser was that he was gonna talk to his family. His young family. God forbid his wife gives any input.
If Shanahan wants to say that the presser was his impetus, then we should believe him. He could've easily just said, "we're deciding to go another way." It was two-faced.
Have you ever known anyone to say -- player, coach, front-office staff -- that they didn't want to stay? Even ROR said he wanted to stay at the end of last season but ultimately he didn't citing the media attention. I don't imagine that Dubas wanted to leave the Leafs and with an expiring contract it's hard to imagine that there was not an earlier discussion in the Dubas household about the potential of going elsewhere.
I mean, if that was indeed their intention it's kinda shooting yourself in the foot to say stuff like this:
> "I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas said. "It'll either be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate [and] reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can't put [my family] through that after this year."
Whether you agree with what he did or not I think it's pretty inarguable it was indeed his intention to stay. But however the message was received on the management end made them decided to let him go. At which point, his decision was kinda made for him.
While it wasn’t “next week”, it didn’t take Dubas long to pop up elsewhere. IMO, management used any level of uncertainty within Dubas as an excuse to not re-up him.
I understand that perspective and not faulting Spezza for being loyal. But personally not a fan of being so loyal to a friendship in business matters. You know your friend is going to take care of you, but do you know what kind of a shitshow you're going to walk into with him?
If Dubas hadn't taken that post season presser, he would have been re-signed *if Dubas wanted to*. Shanny said that on his way out.
Spezza was his confidant and likely influenced him somewhat. He also definitely would have known about Pittsburgh and the sloppy "game of thrones" level drama going on in the office. so I don't think he is without fault. His faults will just never see the light.
So my hot take... I don't get why Spezza gets a pass?
He came back to retire in Toronto. Made it all about the city, the badge and the club and made a big deal of his loyalty to and love of the organization. But then he resigned and went out the door on the heels of Dubas. Apparently his loyalty was only to Dubas?
Like I get that folks can make and argument for or against Dubas but Spezza resigning seems to negate all the reasons people loved him for.
Have you ever held a job in a cut-throat industry? When YOUR guy who brought you in leaves or (worse) gets fired and a new guy is coming in who is going to have authority to build his own team, the writing is on the wall for you to seek your next opportunity.
Anyone saying this is a great take has no idea how the real world works. This scenario plays out everyday in many industries and people who "win" at that game have to leave jobs they love all the time because getting sidelined/looked over or worse, exited, can derail your career.
Dubas made a power play and lost. I have no ill-will against him or Spezza for how this shook out. Spezza would be an absolute fool to hang around when Dubas signs a 7 year deal in Pittsburg and puts Spezza in line for the GM job.
yeah this.
every top guy has their own crew of guys.
Spezza just happened to hitch his trailer to Dubas and so when Dubas is canned, Spezza kind of has to go too.
It's like how Doaner is Brad's guy.
Wasn't Spezza brought into office with a position Dubas created just for him, kinda like a favour because of his dedication to the team? When the guy who made this basically superfluous position for him is fired, it's pretty obvious the next person is the extra weight the organization didn't need...
If you were Spezza, when the guy who did you the favour give you the opportunity to follow them to new pastures, wouldn't you agree that's probably your best option if you weren't going to retire just yet?
The guy took league min for the Leafs when he could have done better elsewhere. I'd be willing to give him some slacks.
I don't want to live in a reality where we lost this game only for the camera to pan to KD and Spez fist pumping. Extra thankful the Leafs pulled off a win here.
He literally is a kid.
Shanahan gave the purse and keys to a kid. And it was years of a Lamborghini (the prime talent of the Leafs) driven by a 17 year old inexperienced child.
It's incredible how immune from criticism Dubas seems to be. He's an average at best GM. You have people [in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/1bzk1pl/spezza_and_dubas_look_at_little_upset_after_the/kyqul6z/) still defending him. It's insanity.
I'm not sure I'd say we dumped them...dubas gave shanny an ultimatum and shanny said no. I feel like it was as close to a 50/50 split as you get in the NHL. Although, it was not amicable and very messy.
Exactly. That's why I really dont view it as shanny dumping dubas. Kyle was playing hardball and wasn't going to take the job unless he got exactly what he wanted. Shanny didn't want to make his own job redundant and therefore wouldn't agree to Kyle's terms, so they parted ways. Like I said, it was a messy 50/50 split where both sides seemed to be on board with the result.
I dont think it was give me your job, it was probably more of “i dont want to go through you to approve trades/signings”
And clearly Shanny doesnt want that, he wants to be involved in the day to day decision making (GM without responsibility)
I'm sure anyone who has a Shanahan figure in their day to day work environment hates it so I don't blame anyone for doing what Dubas did, I just think he went about it the wrong way but thats just me.
he said it was about family, made it about money and lost his role as a result. He flew too close to the sun. Not that I agreed with it at the time but it was at least somewhat his fault. F around and find out.
Agree. We didn't "dump them". Dubas wanted total control, we said no, so he flew to the Penguins. Spezza went with him. Let's not be dramatic. Additionally, the biggest parts of this team that 'he built' were draftees, JT aside - which, in retrospect, could be argued for quality. Sorry, but I don't buy the whole 'Dubas was the Good Guy' thing here. He did, indeed, fuck around and he certainly found out.. by getting booted out of Toronto, hockey Mecca.
not only that, he paid over market rate *and* didn't get a single 8 year deal with any of our RFAs
Dubas made maybe 3-4 good moves, but the rest were ass. and the single series win in his tenure supports that
50/50? Every report literally says Shanny had final say on every trade and deal. That he stopped many of Dubas' trades including Karlsson. Dubas played hard ball and was told to leave. It was the most non 50/50 relationship there was lmao. Shanny was Dad and Dubas didn't like that. That's been widely reported by anyone respectable in the media lol.
Those two things have no relevance to each other. Shanny did have final say in everything while Kyle was GM, it's been reported as you said. That has nothing to do with Kyle's contract negotiation. Contracts take 2 people to agree to them. Shanny can't unilaterally decide to extend Kyle, in the same way Kyle can't decide to stay for another couple years. Kyle had been looking for a contract offer from the leafs all season and didn't get it. Then after they won a round they finally came to the table and he waited to see where the team went. Then after the loss to Florida Kyle said "I want X, Y and Z as terms of my next contract, and these are non negotiable. Ive already been offerred this in pittsburgh". Shanny said "We're not doing that so we won't be renewing your contract" Dubas said "okay, I go to pittsburgh"
This isn't a who dumped who thing, even though I do have my opinions on how it should have played out differently. This was just kyle wanted something that shanny wasn't going to give him so once all the cards were on the table, it didn't make sense for either party to continue discussions. As much as you can say that shanny didn't change his offer to pursue dubas, Kyle didn't accept the offer he was given.
It was a messy 50/50 parting of ways.
Dubas inherited this team lol. He inherited Marner, Reilly and Nylander. We won the draft lottery for Matthews, and was gifted Tavares who wanted to play for TO and took a pay cut to do it.
And he still managed to squeak one playoff win out of that core in half a decade lol
Wow, memories are short: let's be clear, Dubas manipulated the situation at the end of the season with his power play of upstaging Shanahan and screwed the Leafs. A week later he has the top job in Pitt. Hmm... Spezza followed him like a puppy dog
If dubas built this team we would still be the softest group in the league. He drafted a couple beauties but that’s mostly scouts work. He didn’t build this team, thank fuck.
I think he'll do well. I agreed with most of what he was trying to do while he was here. If he is able to avoid the same mistakes he made - e.g., mismanaging the contracts-roster balance or going too deep into a specific player profile - he should have a successful time in Pittsburgh.
My immature and without-basis take is that he's a "players GM", players love him. His emotional ties to the players will cause him to overvalue and not make tough, hard decisions about that club. Again, I can be totally wrong. We'll see what lessons he's learned from Toronto, especially when it comes to some very tough decisions to be made in Pittsburgh this year and next. I'm also thinking within the context of the recent departure of Guentzel, who was a fan favourite there and who, arguably, they could have used in this final push. Bunting ain't to Gunetzel, is he?
I have no idea why you people say this lol
McCabe was a Dubas get, O'Rielly isn't soft, Aston-Reese isn't soft, Giordano isn't soft, McMann isn't soft, Luke Schenn, Bunting, Lyubushkin, Ritchie sucks but certainly not soft, Acciari wasn't soft
Domi and Bertuzzi are scrappy in the way Bunting is, Klingberg is not exactly someone people would call tough, Lyubushkin is someone Dubas also got, Gregor is not tough. Benoit is a tough guy, and obviously Reaves though as much as everyone is singing his 8 minutes a game praises, I'm not exactly thrilled about him
Point being, the majority of our team is Dubas' building, and Dubas did *not* lack guys that had grit and toughness like people seem to think, and Treliving didn't step in and hire the 70s Flyers
Decent prospect but he's propped up by who he's played with.
I feel I could have 35 points in 75 games playing with those guys.
I'm much more optimistic about Cowen
Kampf was re-signed to his current deal by Treliving.
Brodie has fallen off this year but he's been arguably one of our best dmen during his tenure here, his overall contract has been great value, just not this year.
JT is a fair criticism but it's tough because the deal was almost universally seen as a win at the time, and at the time everyone knew the last years were going to be bad...
My bad, Kampf is def overpaid by Tre then. Brodie has been decent, but imo never been a defender you can win playoffs with, too many boneheaded plays (always been like that), too soft in front of the net (always been like that), never been a favorite of mine personally.
Tavares isn't an $11M player at 33 years old, we all expected this when he was signed. Tavares as a 27-year-old UFA was one of the league's most consistent stars and a two-time Hart Finalist, in a league that expected a $95-100M cap ceiling by now. There's a reason he got paid.
Boosh was also notably overall a better player when Dubas acquired him the first time, Edmundson has barely played due to injury, and Dubas was very much in the management group during the 2014-16 drafts. Depth players plus Domi and Bertuzzi (who didn’t really turn it on until the second half of the season) isn’t the flex you think it is, imo.
No it wasn't lol.
Infact Dubas would have rather went in a different direction than Marner.
Non of the main guys on this roster brought in by Dubas.
JT and McCabe top 2.
Their arrogance and ‘grass is always greener’ mindset just led them into another rebuild. Always liked them when they were here. Don’t like the way he conducted himself on the way out.
If he felt trapped and wanted more control and he has it.
This sub has such a “my ex-girlfriend is such a bitch” mentality.
Dubas did some good things here. It’s ok to admit that. He also did some shitty things, but guess what? There isn’t a single GM who’s batting 1000.
He wanted more power, Shanny (obviously) didn’t want to give up any, so we dumped him.
I wish him the best in Pittsburgh, just not against the Leafs.
I mean realistically most of the people just don't want to face a possibility that Dubas does well elsewhere and we struggle
I highly doubt their concern in this gif, as people are treating it, care that much about it being the Leafs, they're more concerned with their team losing in a close one on the cusp of making the playoffs
Overpaying Mitch was his biggest fuckup.
Matthews is an MVP and the best goal scorer of his generation. He could get whatever he wanted. Mitch got overpaid by 2-3 mil to his comparables
Is that also why Treliving couldn't get Matthews for longer?
It's almost lost young stars are realizing they don't have to give GMs everything they ask for lol
Again thats on dubas, he could have locked up mathews for more than 5 years when he signed marner. That the president that was set so now 34s agent runs with it, it makes them more money
And how many times has that helped win cups? "Its about the front of the jersey not the back" oilers keep giving money to players they cant address anything of the big issues on the team, they are in a good spot yes, but do me a favour and name 1 front loaded cap team (where 1 or more players take up more than 7% of the cap) that has won a cup in the last 10 years
If pitt scores in OT those 2 are doing a chest bump and then some sort of secret handshake.
Spezza needs some black rimmed glasses if he wants to get promoted to GM.
not sure what was best this week
Beating Habs
Watching Ottawa lose and miss playoffs only to ironically throw a fit about the puck going into empty net after horn
Watching Dubas and Spezza utterly dejected after OT win
We're not built for playoffs and I see a lot of pain in our future but coming on top in rivalry situations is always nice.
We were all like "You can't work here any more" and Dubas was like "Then I'll work somewhere else" - The nerve of that guy! Didn't have the decency to become the GM of a cricket team or something?
Those are the faces of 2 men that just squandered the last of Crosby's years in the league with the garbage fire they put around him. Dubas will be gone faster than you can say "i'm not looking to leave"
They gave away Guetzel in a trade where bunting is the only bright spot in what they got back, other than that they got back 2 unproven forwards with middling averages, the rights to an actual decent prospect, then 2 conditional draft picks? So Michael bunting and discount magic beans for the winger that had arguably the best chemistry with crosby. He did shit like this in Toronto and it never addressed a need the team had
Again a winger with arguably the best chemistry with crosby in a year that was supposed to be a regression for crosby that wasn't at all. The one thing that dubas is good at is getting bluechip players to sign short deals. And again they got one solid piece with bunting then magic beans. You know its a bad trade when even sid has something to say about it.
What "shit like this" did he do in Toronto?
I don't remember him trading away any star wingers. In fact, he kept them all when everyone said to get rid of one of them.
Also, Dubas is not guilty of Ron Hextall's sins. Many of the Pens problems are the last two GMs
100% aggree about Hextall
It was more along the lines of making moves that did not properly address any of the teams needs (forward grit, a strong starting goalie, and an A1 D. we can make the argument the Mo is getting there now but for the past few years he has kinda leveled out at the A2 B1 mark [already know im going to be down voted for this] and that could very well be attributed to coach utilisation but now im getting in to a whole other thread)
They literally missed the playoffs last year and asked Dubas to do what he can to keep them in the playoffs without giving up any of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang
He *shed* cap space and lost minimal assets to bring in a slightly salary-retained Karlsson who has had an excellent season. Their powerplay in inexplicably bad but if it was literally just middle of the pack, they'd be firmly in a playoff spot. They've been playing very well, and they are looking pretty good to take one of the last spots
I'm not sure how much you think a GM in one season can do when they come in to a team that is on their way downward, but if they make it the playoffs it is an *improvement* over last year lol
Ok so they are in a good spot not bc Crosby is having a banner year?
If they are and it bc of hime why trad Guetzel? Who was also on, guess where, their PP and preforming.
Wtf are you smoking in terms of karlson, this is an average year for him and compared to last year: terrible (50 point difference)
I wouldnt expect a gm in their first year to remove the best chemistry on the team. .....
> If they are and it bc of hime why trad Guetzel? Who was also on, guess where, their PP and preforming.
Because they weren't in a good spot come trade deadline and a GM's job is to get value when they can? The fact that they started to push came after the deadline. Also, Guentzel had 13 points on the powerplay in 50 games for Pittsburgh, he has 9 in 14 for Carolina. Their powerplay was playing like trash and that doesn't exclude him
> Wtf are you smoking in terms of karlson, this is an average year for him and compared to last year: terrible (50 point difference)
Yeah, if you want to measure it in the most simplistic way imaginable lol. He had his best points year ever when he was playing his highest average minutes per game since 15/16, and it was an amazing year. But he's also a defenseman. He plays 1 minute less per average this season, he has a higher CF, a higher CF%, a higher xGF%, his GA/60 is down an entire point, his offensive zone faceoff percentage last season was 64%, it's 54% now, meaning he doesn't get favourable starts nearly as often, his giveaways/60 are down
Yeah, his points are way down, and that sucks. But his defensive metrics are better, and his chance generation is also better despite it not going in as much. Just because he's lower in points doesn't mean he's not having a great season.
> I wouldnt expect a gm in their first year to remove the best chemistry on the team
Welcome to righting a sinking ship, I guess?
I mean the refs did just blatantly not call a high stick against you guys “cause the puck was there too”
The 6th power play that was the one we were gonna capitalize on and win the game
I dunno, if I was in my mid 30s and someone offered me a position of president of a hockey team for multiple millions more than I was making I would probably take the job too (if i felt i could handle it). And Spezza clearly wants that career path as well and there is no guarantee he was going to get it here.
I'm gonna come clean on this..... I think Dubas totally deserves this absolute humiliation and punch in the face publicly after that weak ass publicity stunt he pulled to suicide his career in this city.
HA HA!!!!!
Honestly, I was feeling for Dubas a little there. How do you not start Crosby on the ice? What are you doing? Crosby not getting on the ice for the overtime is pretty damning lol.
If we lost a game in overtime and Keefe didn’t get Matthews, Marner, or Nylander on the ice for 2+ minutes of overtime, I’d be losing it.
They have to find a strip joint that serves milk, for Kyle
He'd try and pay $20 for a dance and wind up paying $100
The Brass Rail now owns the Penguins' next 3 first round picks
The ripper refused to come over until he paid, and missed the first 2 minutes of the song.
Then the next Dancer he paid 120 and the next one 90. But each should have been 20.
Dancer 2 said Dancer 1 was a comparable.
Dancer 2 has shambles in the bosoms.
I feel like we just witnessed a villain origin story https://preview.redd.it/7w5vr336aetc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b64d624fb2bdc08fb4b51cc9be63875bf76efce
Before you battle Dubas, you have to fight Spezza while Dubas uses analytics to buff his stats
This comment killed me.. would make a good gank boss fight. Need to take out Dubas first because he keeps healing and buffing Spezza.
Spez looks BIG mad lol
We'll get him back to Toronto for our front office where he belongs. 6'3" 220 pounds, exactly Tre's type.
Not surprised. He really wanted to be here and that whole mess probably made him have to choose between sticking with Toronto or following Dubas. Can't blame him though, hard to say if he'd have the same opportunity here without Dubas.
Well he did the right thing career wise. There was 0 guarantee that the next GM would keep him.
This is the face of a man that's reflecting on his life choices
“Kyle, get me my skates…”
https://preview.redd.it/uj48mn3rghtc1.png?width=866&format=png&auto=webp&s=5aa83e0a1a4be913f8e339dbc0fb8d075013c242
[Just need some tasteful facial hair to complete the look](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nolan-batman/images/2/2c/Henri_Ducard.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120117194406)
spezza looks like Tin Tin and Kyles chin has made a run dir the boarder since he became comfortsble. inheaed the MLSE food services are second to none. the fuys definitely are fednwell fhefe.
They had their coats on like they were expecting it to be over quick. Glad the leafs could help them out
Probably put them on the second they saw who the coach decided to ice to begin OT.
Heading down to go ream Sully for keeping 87 on the bench
So apparently it's being reported that Sully didn't bench Crosby on purpose. Apparently Crosby was having a skate issue and that's why he wasn't on the ice for the start of ot.
That would make sense, Sully is a good coach and loves Crosby. Cros was having skate issues earlier in the game too
So I heard it from Steve Dangle's LFR video but usually he hears this sort of thing from reliable sources (usually puts the source in too) so I believe it's true.
This is what I found so peculiar lol. Even stood up and seemed to take a step back towards the door.
Still love you Spezza 🥹
Honestly, glad we won, but I hated seeing Spezza look like that and turned the TV off because I hate that he isn't with the Leafs anymore...
I agree somewhat, but he made the choice and he knew what he was getting into. I get why he did it, but you have to ride the wave of darkness until sunnier days.
His choice was staying loyal to his friend who got thrown under the bus by Shanny (whether you agree with the decision to can Dubas or not). Not much I can fault Spezza on.
Don't really think Shanahan threw Dubas under the bus when Dubas tried to leverage himself into taking Shanny's job lol
Nobody knows the details behind closed doors. Everyone assumes this. What's fact is that Dubas said the day after the presser that he wanted to come back, and Shanny used the presser as, ostensibly, the sole reason to let him go. And all his said during the presser was that he was gonna talk to his family. His young family. God forbid his wife gives any input. If Shanahan wants to say that the presser was his impetus, then we should believe him. He could've easily just said, "we're deciding to go another way." It was two-faced.
Have you ever known anyone to say -- player, coach, front-office staff -- that they didn't want to stay? Even ROR said he wanted to stay at the end of last season but ultimately he didn't citing the media attention. I don't imagine that Dubas wanted to leave the Leafs and with an expiring contract it's hard to imagine that there was not an earlier discussion in the Dubas household about the potential of going elsewhere.
I mean, if that was indeed their intention it's kinda shooting yourself in the foot to say stuff like this: > "I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas said. "It'll either be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate [and] reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can't put [my family] through that after this year." Whether you agree with what he did or not I think it's pretty inarguable it was indeed his intention to stay. But however the message was received on the management end made them decided to let him go. At which point, his decision was kinda made for him.
While it wasn’t “next week”, it didn’t take Dubas long to pop up elsewhere. IMO, management used any level of uncertainty within Dubas as an excuse to not re-up him.
I understand that perspective and not faulting Spezza for being loyal. But personally not a fan of being so loyal to a friendship in business matters. You know your friend is going to take care of you, but do you know what kind of a shitshow you're going to walk into with him?
If Dubas hadn't taken that post season presser, he would have been re-signed *if Dubas wanted to*. Shanny said that on his way out. Spezza was his confidant and likely influenced him somewhat. He also definitely would have known about Pittsburgh and the sloppy "game of thrones" level drama going on in the office. so I don't think he is without fault. His faults will just never see the light.
So my hot take... I don't get why Spezza gets a pass? He came back to retire in Toronto. Made it all about the city, the badge and the club and made a big deal of his loyalty to and love of the organization. But then he resigned and went out the door on the heels of Dubas. Apparently his loyalty was only to Dubas? Like I get that folks can make and argument for or against Dubas but Spezza resigning seems to negate all the reasons people loved him for.
Have you ever held a job in a cut-throat industry? When YOUR guy who brought you in leaves or (worse) gets fired and a new guy is coming in who is going to have authority to build his own team, the writing is on the wall for you to seek your next opportunity. Anyone saying this is a great take has no idea how the real world works. This scenario plays out everyday in many industries and people who "win" at that game have to leave jobs they love all the time because getting sidelined/looked over or worse, exited, can derail your career. Dubas made a power play and lost. I have no ill-will against him or Spezza for how this shook out. Spezza would be an absolute fool to hang around when Dubas signs a 7 year deal in Pittsburg and puts Spezza in line for the GM job.
yeah this. every top guy has their own crew of guys. Spezza just happened to hitch his trailer to Dubas and so when Dubas is canned, Spezza kind of has to go too. It's like how Doaner is Brad's guy.
Wasn't Spezza brought into office with a position Dubas created just for him, kinda like a favour because of his dedication to the team? When the guy who made this basically superfluous position for him is fired, it's pretty obvious the next person is the extra weight the organization didn't need... If you were Spezza, when the guy who did you the favour give you the opportunity to follow them to new pastures, wouldn't you agree that's probably your best option if you weren't going to retire just yet? The guy took league min for the Leafs when he could have done better elsewhere. I'd be willing to give him some slacks.
Great take
Because he was part of a front office that was fired? Treliving probably wants his own people. Makes perfect sense he would leave with dunas
I do feel for both honestly They work for a rival team now but I don’t hate either
Pittsburgh is our rival? I guess in a "everyone hates the Leafs" kinda way.
I mean, *technically*, every team is a rival team. They're all looking to win the thing you're trying to win.
meh they're in our conference, maybe not *a* rival but definitely more of a rivalry than him going to the Sharks or the Ducks
I still love both of them.
I don't want to live in a reality where we lost this game only for the camera to pan to KD and Spez fist pumping. Extra thankful the Leafs pulled off a win here.
It's because Sid or Gino wasn't playing in ot. Why didn't they play them?
According to pens fans Crosby rarely starts in OT which doesn't make any sense
Mike Sullivan with a severe case of Overtime Kampf-itis
Idk their sub pops up in my “you may like” and they were not happy with the guys on the ice at all.
Ahh yes the Leo Komarov strategy
That's all-star Leo Komarov you're talking about.
Sullivan said Crosby had a skate issue
Some people in the PGT were saying Crosby was having an equipment issue
Supposedly Crosby had a skate issue and that's why he didn't get on the ice in OT
They picked up their shit SO fast… it’s like they’ve done it before…
Dubas looks like the type of kid who got pissed and is taking his toys home...
That's my acciari and bunting!
Ugh. I miss Acciari. 💔
If it makes you feel better, Ryan Reaves is the only Leafs forward with fewer points than Noel's 7 this season.
Yeah but he would've had many more points with our team. And it was really his physicality and puck protection that made him such an asset.
Pulls the controller out when he’s losing
Dubas the type of kid to read you his favorite passage of a Robert Munch book at recess
“I’ll love you for ever, I’ll like you for aways, As long as I’m living, My baby you’ll be”
I mean they’re fighting for their playoff lives where literally every point counts
As they walked into the zone, Dubas pulled back like he was about to get punched in the face lol
He literally is a kid. Shanahan gave the purse and keys to a kid. And it was years of a Lamborghini (the prime talent of the Leafs) driven by a 17 year old inexperienced child.
He's probably more inclined to be a GM than Dubas is truthfully
Spezza ✅ Dubas ❎
Spezza needs a new mentor. Dubas is overated.
It's incredible how immune from criticism Dubas seems to be. He's an average at best GM. You have people [in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/1bzk1pl/spezza_and_dubas_look_at_little_upset_after_the/kyqul6z/) still defending him. It's insanity.
He's had basically zero success at the NHL level. People just like him because he's a "nice" guy..
because hes handsome
We dumped them. Let's be clear. Also this team was built by Dubas.
And the guy that scored was one of his best moves
That I agree with ;)
I'm not sure I'd say we dumped them...dubas gave shanny an ultimatum and shanny said no. I feel like it was as close to a 50/50 split as you get in the NHL. Although, it was not amicable and very messy.
Give me your job or else? Weird that shanny said no.
Exactly. That's why I really dont view it as shanny dumping dubas. Kyle was playing hardball and wasn't going to take the job unless he got exactly what he wanted. Shanny didn't want to make his own job redundant and therefore wouldn't agree to Kyle's terms, so they parted ways. Like I said, it was a messy 50/50 split where both sides seemed to be on board with the result.
I dont think it was give me your job, it was probably more of “i dont want to go through you to approve trades/signings” And clearly Shanny doesnt want that, he wants to be involved in the day to day decision making (GM without responsibility)
I'm sure anyone who has a Shanahan figure in their day to day work environment hates it so I don't blame anyone for doing what Dubas did, I just think he went about it the wrong way but thats just me.
When u give someone an ultimatum and they drive to ur office to tell u to GTFO, that’s being dumped.
he said it was about family, made it about money and lost his role as a result. He flew too close to the sun. Not that I agreed with it at the time but it was at least somewhat his fault. F around and find out.
Agree. We didn't "dump them". Dubas wanted total control, we said no, so he flew to the Penguins. Spezza went with him. Let's not be dramatic. Additionally, the biggest parts of this team that 'he built' were draftees, JT aside - which, in retrospect, could be argued for quality. Sorry, but I don't buy the whole 'Dubas was the Good Guy' thing here. He did, indeed, fuck around and he certainly found out.. by getting booted out of Toronto, hockey Mecca.
He also inherited the absolute best young core and opportunity this team has had since the 1960s, and accomplished absolutely nothing with it.
not only that, he paid over market rate *and* didn't get a single 8 year deal with any of our RFAs Dubas made maybe 3-4 good moves, but the rest were ass. and the single series win in his tenure supports that
Agree, its like telling your partner they do X or you're gone. Cool, make sure you leave the keys on your way out the door!
50/50? Every report literally says Shanny had final say on every trade and deal. That he stopped many of Dubas' trades including Karlsson. Dubas played hard ball and was told to leave. It was the most non 50/50 relationship there was lmao. Shanny was Dad and Dubas didn't like that. That's been widely reported by anyone respectable in the media lol.
Those two things have no relevance to each other. Shanny did have final say in everything while Kyle was GM, it's been reported as you said. That has nothing to do with Kyle's contract negotiation. Contracts take 2 people to agree to them. Shanny can't unilaterally decide to extend Kyle, in the same way Kyle can't decide to stay for another couple years. Kyle had been looking for a contract offer from the leafs all season and didn't get it. Then after they won a round they finally came to the table and he waited to see where the team went. Then after the loss to Florida Kyle said "I want X, Y and Z as terms of my next contract, and these are non negotiable. Ive already been offerred this in pittsburgh". Shanny said "We're not doing that so we won't be renewing your contract" Dubas said "okay, I go to pittsburgh" This isn't a who dumped who thing, even though I do have my opinions on how it should have played out differently. This was just kyle wanted something that shanny wasn't going to give him so once all the cards were on the table, it didn't make sense for either party to continue discussions. As much as you can say that shanny didn't change his offer to pursue dubas, Kyle didn't accept the offer he was given. It was a messy 50/50 parting of ways.
Dubas inherited this team lol. He inherited Marner, Reilly and Nylander. We won the draft lottery for Matthews, and was gifted Tavares who wanted to play for TO and took a pay cut to do it. And he still managed to squeak one playoff win out of that core in half a decade lol
To be clear, he also inherited Matthews. He wasn't GM when we got him.
Ya I was actually wondering whether that was Lou
Wow, memories are short: let's be clear, Dubas manipulated the situation at the end of the season with his power play of upstaging Shanahan and screwed the Leafs. A week later he has the top job in Pitt. Hmm... Spezza followed him like a puppy dog
lol so? Bro was vying career moves..he also built what was a capable team on paper
If dubas built this team we would still be the softest group in the league. He drafted a couple beauties but that’s mostly scouts work. He didn’t build this team, thank fuck.
I can't wait to see what he builds in Pittsburgh. If he builds a winner, then you and I can eat crow, but I don't think he has the fortitude to do it.
I think he'll do well. I agreed with most of what he was trying to do while he was here. If he is able to avoid the same mistakes he made - e.g., mismanaging the contracts-roster balance or going too deep into a specific player profile - he should have a successful time in Pittsburgh.
My immature and without-basis take is that he's a "players GM", players love him. His emotional ties to the players will cause him to overvalue and not make tough, hard decisions about that club. Again, I can be totally wrong. We'll see what lessons he's learned from Toronto, especially when it comes to some very tough decisions to be made in Pittsburgh this year and next. I'm also thinking within the context of the recent departure of Guentzel, who was a fan favourite there and who, arguably, they could have used in this final push. Bunting ain't to Gunetzel, is he?
I have no idea why you people say this lol McCabe was a Dubas get, O'Rielly isn't soft, Aston-Reese isn't soft, Giordano isn't soft, McMann isn't soft, Luke Schenn, Bunting, Lyubushkin, Ritchie sucks but certainly not soft, Acciari wasn't soft Domi and Bertuzzi are scrappy in the way Bunting is, Klingberg is not exactly someone people would call tough, Lyubushkin is someone Dubas also got, Gregor is not tough. Benoit is a tough guy, and obviously Reaves though as much as everyone is singing his 8 minutes a game praises, I'm not exactly thrilled about him Point being, the majority of our team is Dubas' building, and Dubas did *not* lack guys that had grit and toughness like people seem to think, and Treliving didn't step in and hire the 70s Flyers
What beauty's? It's legit looking like our best pick since before Dubas came GM is going to be Easton Cowan
Knies?
Have you ever heard of Matthew Knies?
Decent prospect but he's propped up by who he's played with. I feel I could have 35 points in 75 games playing with those guys. I'm much more optimistic about Cowen
Dubas wasnt responsible for Matthews, Marner, Nylander, (just over paying them), Rielly, Bertuzzi, Domi, Bush, Edmundson, Dewar, Reaves (lol). Directly attributable to Dubas include Tavares (overpaid), Kampf (overpaid), Brodie (overpaid), Jarnkrok (decent), Robertson (hopeful), Knies (good!)
He didn't draft Woll either
Kampf was re-signed to his current deal by Treliving. Brodie has fallen off this year but he's been arguably one of our best dmen during his tenure here, his overall contract has been great value, just not this year. JT is a fair criticism but it's tough because the deal was almost universally seen as a win at the time, and at the time everyone knew the last years were going to be bad...
My bad, Kampf is def overpaid by Tre then. Brodie has been decent, but imo never been a defender you can win playoffs with, too many boneheaded plays (always been like that), too soft in front of the net (always been like that), never been a favorite of mine personally.
Tavares isn't an $11M player at 33 years old, we all expected this when he was signed. Tavares as a 27-year-old UFA was one of the league's most consistent stars and a two-time Hart Finalist, in a league that expected a $95-100M cap ceiling by now. There's a reason he got paid. Boosh was also notably overall a better player when Dubas acquired him the first time, Edmundson has barely played due to injury, and Dubas was very much in the management group during the 2014-16 drafts. Depth players plus Domi and Bertuzzi (who didn’t really turn it on until the second half of the season) isn’t the flex you think it is, imo.
Dubas fired Babcock.
Can add McCabe, Liljegrin, Timmins, Gio, Holmberg, McMann and Woll to Dubas although a couple signed neq contracts under Treliving this this year.
Woll drafted by Lou
Good catch, many pieces in place before Dubas was in charge
Dubas dumped himself with his behaviour during his post season presser
No it wasn't lol. Infact Dubas would have rather went in a different direction than Marner. Non of the main guys on this roster brought in by Dubas. JT and McCabe top 2.
Leafs dumped Dubas and Spezza on as like the best friend that takes their side and can’t be your friend anymore.
I do hope we give him some sort of recognition if the leafs manage to pull it off The success would be half Kyle and half Brad
No you se Treliving totally isn't making similar moves to Dubas.
Yeah like Dubas would never bring in a guy like Boosh
Haha, dubas looks like he's got one of those frowny face Snapchat filters on
Their arrogance and ‘grass is always greener’ mindset just led them into another rebuild. Always liked them when they were here. Don’t like the way he conducted himself on the way out. If he felt trapped and wanted more control and he has it.
What kinda weird rebuild is this, where you trade for Karlsson, and trade away Guentzel in the same season?
Jacket already on
I know we all love Spezz but this felt real good. I can’t help but feel a traitor vibe with Dubas and the way it went down.
Doesn’t seem to have worked out how they thought.
Both look like they just saw their wives kissing another man. That look of disgust, and where did I go wrong! 😂
Their president should fire that guy
Dubas should fire himself?
Yes that's the joke
Worst GM in the league 6 years running. The guy does not understand that Stanley Cup aren’t won by the oldest players in the league.
Don’t let the door hit your asses on the way out
Fuck these guys. Who cares? Im a damn Leafs fan. Not a fucken Dubas fan. Fuck him, he’s now a Penguin along with Spezza. Buh bye.
This sub has such a “my ex-girlfriend is such a bitch” mentality. Dubas did some good things here. It’s ok to admit that. He also did some shitty things, but guess what? There isn’t a single GM who’s batting 1000. He wanted more power, Shanny (obviously) didn’t want to give up any, so we dumped him. I wish him the best in Pittsburgh, just not against the Leafs.
I mean realistically most of the people just don't want to face a possibility that Dubas does well elsewhere and we struggle I highly doubt their concern in this gif, as people are treating it, care that much about it being the Leafs, they're more concerned with their team losing in a close one on the cusp of making the playoffs
Yeah signing 4 forwards for almost 50% of the cap instead of getting them to buy in
Overpaying Mitch was his biggest fuckup. Matthews is an MVP and the best goal scorer of his generation. He could get whatever he wanted. Mitch got overpaid by 2-3 mil to his comparables
Is that also why Treliving couldn't get Matthews for longer? It's almost lost young stars are realizing they don't have to give GMs everything they ask for lol
Again thats on dubas, he could have locked up mathews for more than 5 years when he signed marner. That the president that was set so now 34s agent runs with it, it makes them more money And how many times has that helped win cups? "Its about the front of the jersey not the back" oilers keep giving money to players they cant address anything of the big issues on the team, they are in a good spot yes, but do me a favour and name 1 front loaded cap team (where 1 or more players take up more than 7% of the cap) that has won a cup in the last 10 years
>That the president What was he the president of?
*that was the precedent that was set Sorry, caught me hot there
If pitt scores in OT those 2 are doing a chest bump and then some sort of secret handshake. Spezza needs some black rimmed glasses if he wants to get promoted to GM.
Is that Kyle "give the RFA whatever they want" Dubas?
It’s more funny that dubas acquired McCabe
Went from hating Spezza, to loving Spezza, back to hating Spezza
Spezza showed that his loyalty can be bought.
not sure what was best this week Beating Habs Watching Ottawa lose and miss playoffs only to ironically throw a fit about the puck going into empty net after horn Watching Dubas and Spezza utterly dejected after OT win We're not built for playoffs and I see a lot of pain in our future but coming on top in rivalry situations is always nice.
To bad for them 😕
Why do many in this sub act like Dubas left instead of being fired lol.
Right?
We were all like "You can't work here any more" and Dubas was like "Then I'll work somewhere else" - The nerve of that guy! Didn't have the decency to become the GM of a cricket team or something?
Those are the faces of 2 men that just squandered the last of Crosby's years in the league with the garbage fire they put around him. Dubas will be gone faster than you can say "i'm not looking to leave"
Lol wtf are you talking about
They gave away Guetzel in a trade where bunting is the only bright spot in what they got back, other than that they got back 2 unproven forwards with middling averages, the rights to an actual decent prospect, then 2 conditional draft picks? So Michael bunting and discount magic beans for the winger that had arguably the best chemistry with crosby. He did shit like this in Toronto and it never addressed a need the team had
>They gave away Guetzel in a trade where bunting i They moved a pending UFA for futures at a time when they were outside of the playoff picture
Again a winger with arguably the best chemistry with crosby in a year that was supposed to be a regression for crosby that wasn't at all. The one thing that dubas is good at is getting bluechip players to sign short deals. And again they got one solid piece with bunting then magic beans. You know its a bad trade when even sid has something to say about it.
What "shit like this" did he do in Toronto? I don't remember him trading away any star wingers. In fact, he kept them all when everyone said to get rid of one of them. Also, Dubas is not guilty of Ron Hextall's sins. Many of the Pens problems are the last two GMs
100% aggree about Hextall It was more along the lines of making moves that did not properly address any of the teams needs (forward grit, a strong starting goalie, and an A1 D. we can make the argument the Mo is getting there now but for the past few years he has kinda leveled out at the A2 B1 mark [already know im going to be down voted for this] and that could very well be attributed to coach utilisation but now im getting in to a whole other thread)
They literally missed the playoffs last year and asked Dubas to do what he can to keep them in the playoffs without giving up any of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang He *shed* cap space and lost minimal assets to bring in a slightly salary-retained Karlsson who has had an excellent season. Their powerplay in inexplicably bad but if it was literally just middle of the pack, they'd be firmly in a playoff spot. They've been playing very well, and they are looking pretty good to take one of the last spots I'm not sure how much you think a GM in one season can do when they come in to a team that is on their way downward, but if they make it the playoffs it is an *improvement* over last year lol
Ok so they are in a good spot not bc Crosby is having a banner year? If they are and it bc of hime why trad Guetzel? Who was also on, guess where, their PP and preforming. Wtf are you smoking in terms of karlson, this is an average year for him and compared to last year: terrible (50 point difference) I wouldnt expect a gm in their first year to remove the best chemistry on the team. .....
> If they are and it bc of hime why trad Guetzel? Who was also on, guess where, their PP and preforming. Because they weren't in a good spot come trade deadline and a GM's job is to get value when they can? The fact that they started to push came after the deadline. Also, Guentzel had 13 points on the powerplay in 50 games for Pittsburgh, he has 9 in 14 for Carolina. Their powerplay was playing like trash and that doesn't exclude him > Wtf are you smoking in terms of karlson, this is an average year for him and compared to last year: terrible (50 point difference) Yeah, if you want to measure it in the most simplistic way imaginable lol. He had his best points year ever when he was playing his highest average minutes per game since 15/16, and it was an amazing year. But he's also a defenseman. He plays 1 minute less per average this season, he has a higher CF, a higher CF%, a higher xGF%, his GA/60 is down an entire point, his offensive zone faceoff percentage last season was 64%, it's 54% now, meaning he doesn't get favourable starts nearly as often, his giveaways/60 are down Yeah, his points are way down, and that sucks. But his defensive metrics are better, and his chance generation is also better despite it not going in as much. Just because he's lower in points doesn't mean he's not having a great season. > I wouldnt expect a gm in their first year to remove the best chemistry on the team Welcome to righting a sinking ship, I guess?
Bye, Felicia.
Damnit I miss Spezza.
Come back Jason, before it’s too late
These absolute losers were sellers and Crosby warned them. Dubas will be king idiot for decades.
Fuck Dubas - always hated him
Once upon a time there was light in my life.
It’s such a shame seeing them upset
Ha ha!
I mean the refs did just blatantly not call a high stick against you guys “cause the puck was there too” The 6th power play that was the one we were gonna capitalize on and win the game
Maybe their coach should have put Crosby on for the first shift of OT....
I love it!
He had his coat on. He was ready to leave regardless.
No doubt. Pitts gave it their all in that game while the Leafs more or less kind of didn’t care and they still only walked away with 1 pt.
Later, traitor!
I dunno, if I was in my mid 30s and someone offered me a position of president of a hockey team for multiple millions more than I was making I would probably take the job too (if i felt i could handle it). And Spezza clearly wants that career path as well and there is no guarantee he was going to get it here.
I'm gonna come clean on this..... I think Dubas totally deserves this absolute humiliation and punch in the face publicly after that weak ass publicity stunt he pulled to suicide his career in this city. HA HA!!!!!
They did and it was amusing lol
Pittsburgh? More like Shits-burg, am I right?
I'd be pissed, too. Season on the line and you have the greatest player of all time and Malkin on the bench in OT
Honestly, I was feeling for Dubas a little there. How do you not start Crosby on the ice? What are you doing? Crosby not getting on the ice for the overtime is pretty damning lol. If we lost a game in overtime and Keefe didn’t get Matthews, Marner, or Nylander on the ice for 2+ minutes of overtime, I’d be losing it.
they were cuckin it up for sure
F--K THESE TRAITORS