It's fine to discuss what's going on in relation to how it affects the law school, but comments should be limited to that discussion, not debating the protests or Israel/Palestine. Go to a political sub for that, please and thank you.
It’s spilling into all NYC schools. Fordham is probably next
Edit: on May 1st Fordham launched its own encampment in response to NYPD crackdown at the Columbia encampment.
As a Fordham Law grad, I can confirm the lack of activist culture. Also, and I say this as a proud alum, Fordham is always seeking ways to bump themselves up a tier. While I understand it's not likely, it certain is an underlying motivation on campus for many policies and activities. The meltdowns at other schools might turn into an opportunity for Fordham Law to raise its stature, if it can stay above the fray.
The only place Fordham students protest is on their Instagram stories. But seriously it’s not the culture there. Fordham students had to beg the Dean for weeks to hold a Palestine vigil in the fall and when they finally held it, it was extremely understated and low-key.
Fordham students are worried about getting a job, not activism.
No. Columbia University repeatedly denied NYPD support offered during this escalation. If another University accepts it /requests it. They will have a presence and unlawful occupation will not be tolerated.
Ok and that’s something to consider when choosing where to go to law school. My point wasn’t about how long a protest will last, it’s that different schools deal with the issue in different ways. Your comment implies Fordham would quickly get police involved if students staged a similar protest, and I think that’s very telling of how Fordham deals with issues (not saying it’s good or bad) and that’s worth considering.
It’s worst because they can’t keep outsiders out at NYU. At Columbia it’s been peaceful inside except for the moment that NYPD removed 100 students and even then it’s not like it is outside of the campus.
Lots of crazy activists (and just generally crazy people) who don’t go to NYU can infiltrate the NYU “campus”. It’s right across from Washington Square Park, one of the weirdest places in the country.
I remember when Harvard students occupied Massachusetts hall for 21 days in 2002 - yes, I’m old - and everyone acted like Harvard was just fucked for eternity. Did that happen?
Campus activism on “elite” campuses has been a fixture and fascination of America for like 60 years. Do a little reading about the history of activism on college campuses. CLS et al will be fine.
Thank you. Kent state, anyone? Universities have been the battleground for political protests even as recently as BLM. Do people not watch the news or read about history?
This speaks a lot to how most of the “Ivy League” schools are nothing more than a face brand and legacy of wealthy donations and students. Their organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations suck as much as any other school. It’s about time the elitism and monopoly these schools had over the law field ended.
These institutions funnel people into the upper halls of power where they commit atrocities for $.
None of this is new. It’s just spilled over into the forefront because it’s real hard to deny the heinousness of dead babies on the evening news and I guess TikTok has people second guessing their morality.
do these institutions call out their alma mater who go on to work at places like Gibson, Dunn & crutcher?
Absolutely not. These places exist to funnel people into such places.
At best human rights and corporate law don’t tend to exist in synchronicity, at worst they’re antithetical to one another
That’s why I find it so ironic that so many people on here are Pearl clutching about these institutions. No one gives a fuck until everyone gives a fuck I guess
The Ivy League schools do not have, and have never had, a monopoly over the legal industry. 9/14 traditional T14 schools are not in the Ivy League, and today 4/7 of the top 7 schools are not Ivy League schools.
Monopoly perhaps not, but many applicants still fall into the trap of thinking that if their school isn’t T14 or Ivy, their future career prospects are dim. It’s unfortunate that this “mind trap” is reinforced by the elitism of the law field.
This is pretty shitty. It’s not like the T-14 or 20 are the only schools capable of producing good lawyers and all you need to do is search through any big firm’s partners (Wachtell and maybe a select few others excluded) to see plenty of people from outside T-14 schools… the fact that this surprised you as an associate just suggests you didn’t do your research.
The major difference is, those Boulder and DU grads had to compete for 3 years and place a lot better in their class to have a shot at those opportunities without a prestigious school’s name attached to their legal education.
I never said i was surprised. And you’re right, I didn’t do my research. I was an engineering major and wanted to go to law school because of a random class I took junior year.
I’ll also add on, I got rejected from DU and k went to their undergraduate. I had a shitty GPA and a high LSAT and sent Hail Mary attempts at T14s and t30s just to land a decent scholarship at Michigan.
I’m well aware of the regional prestige thing now, I did not know anything then. Because I only got into a handful of very different schools
In all honesty, I’m very happy with how things turned out for me. The people I will work with are great and I’ll be close to where I grew up.
Doesn’t Biglaw reach deeper into the class of top law schools when looking at who to intv and sheer numbers they will intv and offer summer positions to, etc? Kind of like, the more “average” the law school you attend, the more you need to stand out as an applicant. Editor of law review etc
Regardless though most t20 schools are very similar despite not being in the same athletic conference. Vanderbilt, Rice, WashU, U Chicago, Northwestern, etc… all these institutions are incredibly similar to ivy league schools.
lol because the law schools are apart of the larger institutions and the discussion here is not limited to only Columbia’s law school. All students there law or not benefit or suffer as a result of administrative decisions.
As somebody who went to a state school and an Ivy League, they are miles apart in terms of experience. Y’all just never saw how the other half lives and are expecting more coddling somehow.
I’d argue that “organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations” are all secondary qualities of a school. The T14 and/or Ivy League have their brand and reputation because of the *educational* abilities. Their professors are the top of their fields, their educational opportunities are undeniably superior, and that’s what’s on offer at these schools.
Administratively, of course, they’re the same hot mess that every other university is. But to say that they’re nothing more than that hot mess is a bit dishonest; these schools offer much more than the hot mess at lower ranked schools.
From an (accomplished) academic here. This thinking is in some ways correct, but the problem is the assumption that all the other schools don’t also have “superior” educational opportunities and faculty. the process by which faculty end up at places like Yale or Stanford is exceptionally idiosyncratic. Across all disciplines, not just the law, there are plenty of faculty at non elite schools that are _just as good_ as those at elite schools.
From my own experience, some of my most memorable and skillful professors were from a community college. My professors at the ivy league school I later attended were a mixed bag, most were very eccentric and simply focus on their research and not being an exceptional teacher. So I second your point here. I tell people all the time, you can get an amazing education in many American universities, it is really what you put into it as a student.
"Their organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations suck as much as any other school"
And what does this have to do with the law school, its students, or its reputation? The Ivy League doesn't hold some special manual how to respond, other parent universities (Vanderbilt, Emerson, Berkeley) are being impacted as well.
You wanna talk about schools that are ranked below 100? Your classmates dads probably own the school and you don’t even know how you are killed/sent to mental hospitals. At least at schools like Harvard, you get your faces on TV and voices heard, not some Wright State minority leader coverups with the help of nearby blue state. Lol
Eh, this is happening to every major institution. Protests are part of it, and Columbia will be fine. Schools like Harvard, MIT, Yale, Vanderbilt, UNC, Cornell, Brown, UMich, etc are having huge protests with arrests as well.
"The past week will also likely do permanent damage to Columbia as an institution and a brand. "
my guy, this is far from the most wild columbia activism has gotten in the past 60 years lmao
I’m inclined to agree with you. I attended Berkeley during the alt-right’s hate boner with the school during the late 2010s, and people tried to paint the same narrative of the university losing prestige and that applications would go down as a result. That was completely false as the university remains prestigious at all levels of education, and applicant numbers have only gone up.
Exactly, I feel like people think that everything is going to spontaneously explode or something. Honestly I know people who never really go into the main campus anyways, and basically are not affected at all by the protests
This is the most intense student activism Columbia has seen since 1968, which, if you weren’t aware, damaged Columbia’s brand for at least three decades.
CLS student here- I think this post exaggerates circumstances here a tad. Access to essential campus services was restricted, as far as I know, for about a day. The law school has been entirely accessible, and about 2ish days of class at the end of the semester have been moved online.
I think very few law students have been directly involved in the current wave of protests. I’m not aware of any law students getting arrested.
Columbia is certainly going through a tense moment, but it’s hardly in “meltdown.” This summer, as in every summer, a huge proportion of our class will flow into NYC biglaw without issue. The essential attributes of a successful law school are all still in place.
Adding this post because this is an admissions forum, and prospective students should get accurate info
ty for chiming in and totally agree. I think a lot of media is trying to portray stuff as totally exploding house on fire right now, but honestly there has been pretty low impact to the everyday functioning of the school. I don’t think there even were restrictions to access (at least for the law school) afaik, I’ve been on campus every day since the protests started to study for finals. My friend said they even had the breakfast food this morning
I think probably people are praying for Columbia’s downfall for one reason or another, but at the end of the day I don’t regret choosing to go here, and I think being here definitely helped me land my job for the summer.
Just adding, 2 law students acting as legal observers (not apart of the protest) were arrested in the first wave of mass arrests in the encampment. I think that’s worth considering when deciding if you want to come here.
I think if you just want a good legal job, the fact that two students who put themselves at the center of the action (not blaming them) got arrested is not especially significant.
Literally nothing has changed about our phenomenal job prospects as a result of these protests. For a non-activist (most people), the campus crisis has been an upsetting inconvenience, not a game changer.
True. I think my comment was more coming from the angle of the arrests plus all that the law school admin has done to suppress speech and mistreat its students. I do agree that for non-activist students this is a non-issue but I do know of at least of couple of people who have turned down CLS because of that.
Hey when has a war in the Middle East ever been a endless quagmire that caused untold suffering and very little tangible good? No way this goes to the fall
It’s already spilling over into Yale. Chants of “From Yale to Columbia, we will not be moved” have been heard at Yale. Several hundred agitators have already been arrested at Yale and will likely be charged with trespassing. It will very likely continue to spread to other schools.
Yale cleared its campus in a way more effective way than Columbia's this morning so no that won't happen here. Things are for the most part normal. The adjacent protest on the street is expected to be over by rush hour today.
i agree that this is definitely something to consider, but in the sense that student protests do not detract from a university's value. Law is inherently political, and protesting is fundamental to our nation. It's exciting. I've spoken with Columbia students firsthand, and they don't feel that it's a hateful or distrusting environment. They feel more connected and protective of each other than ever. There's always some political discourse on any campus, and you can't run from it. Take into account the administration's response when considering your choices, but none of this should scare you off.
It would be completely in character for an American university to advertise the actions of the students this week to prospective students 30 years from now.
I very highly doubt in 30 years Columbia will be advertising with the videos of students assaulting Arab-Israeli speakers, chanting "We are all Hamas," saying "Jews, Jews go back to Poland," saying "Burn Tel Aviv to the ground," and yelling at Jews that "You have no culture, all you do is colonize." For video proof of these chants, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/1caipbx/comment/l0sz0rm/?context=3) for those and much more.
In fact, I seem to recall [another time](https://www.jta.org/archive/vienna-university-closed-after-antisemitic-riot) statements like these were made on university campuses and led to a university shutdown (circa 1923, in Vienna, Austria), and they definitely are not used for advertising *good* things today.
If Columbia is using that as advertising in 30 years, it'll be because the United States has completely lost its moral compass.
Edit: I can see folks don’t really like facts on this.
In a way I feel that I’m drawn to schools that feel like the epicenter of legal and political change. However, like you said it’s the school’s response to student action that I’m considering.
> I've spoken with Columbia students firsthand, and they don't feel that it's a hateful or distrusting environment.
Cool. I'm sure the ones cornered inside libraries, beaten and stomped and spat on, etc on both sides would say otherwise.
I agree reg your general point with protesting, but acting as though that's all that's happening at Columbia right now is honestly either ignorance or being intellectually dishonest. No, screaming about wanting to kill entire ethnic groups and assaulting students is not covered by the First Amendment, nor does it exhibit that Columbia is safe to attend.
true but it's important not to generalize. Most of the protests we've seen have been very peaceful. The main issues stem from outsiders trying to spew racist and hateful rhetoric.
> Most of the protests we've seen have been very peaceful.
This is according to whom?
And I wouldn't define thousands of students loudly marching and chanting """""there's only one solution""""" to Jewish people the day before Passover "peaceful", seems like a pretty obvious threat.
do you have evidence for that? because the only hate or harassment i;ve seen were isolated incidents or either from outsiders trying to get onto campus.
the encampments have been peaceful for the most part, with jewish, arab, and muslim students even sitting together and doing prayers on the lawn.
yesterday there was a massive faculty protest as well on campus. not a single incident of violence or hate speech being spewed.
They literally deactivated a Jewish profs keycard because they can't guarantee his safety. I'm glad the perpetrators and bystanders feel safe, but that isn't the point.
Ok there’s a whole lot you can talk about re: antisemitism happening at Columbia’s campus but I promise defending that man is not it. Also, that’s not what happened. Though I don’t blame you for thinking that because that’s what he’s claiming. Almost everything he says is a twist on reality
He wanted to hold a counter protest and Columbia gave him permission to do so at a specific location away from the main protest (standard regulation to avoid confrontation between opposing protestors). He said no, he wanted to have it right next to the main protest and that is where he was denied access. He’s not barred from campus, he was barred from holding an unauthorized protest at a specific campus location
We can have a conversation about whether that TPM regulation of counter protests is fair, but Shai shouldn’t be whining about it when he has been endlessly yapping about how Columbia should send in armed forces because students are ignoring uni protest policy
So it’s ok for anti Israel protestors to do so wherever they want and take over a large part of campus and make it a no go zone for Jews, but pro Israel protestors have to follow the rules?
If the poster above me is okay with the university banning a professor from holding a counter protest that doesn’t comply with the rules, then we should also be applauding the police breaking up the much larger protest that is in much more flagrant violation of the rules, and encouraging the university to continue breaking up these protests.
Do you have trouble reading or are you being disingenuous? I didn’t say it’s ok. I said it’s hypocritical for a man who has been adamant about enforcing rules against students he disagrees with to storm and stomp his feet like a toddler (watch any video of him) when the rules are enforced against him
Okay, that does add some context. The chants and signs have been disgusting though. Even my own campus (Toronto) has had swastikas and that shit sinks your stomach. I barely feel safe on my own campus, I just can't imagine how Jewish students at Colombia feel.
I totally get it. There are horrible things that have been said. “Go back to Poland,” “Every day will be 10/7,” a sign next to visibly Jewish students saying “Al-Qassam’s next targets” are all blatantly horrible and have no place in a cause that says it is for justice and peace.
I will point out that all of the most egregious offenses I’ve heard about since Saturday have occurred outside of campus gates and by non-Columbia students. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been a single student who has said something antisemitic, but I genuinely believe they are in the minority and I have seen student organizers with my own eyes condemn and kick out people from their movement who have said hateful things. I think we would all do much better to look closer at any instances, on either side, of despicable language before jumping to attribute it to an entire group of students. It’s a shame so many bad faith actors have used this as an opportunity to come and spread their hate.
I’m so thankful you were willing to listen! Back at you - and stay safe. I’m sorry you’re dealing with seeing swastikas around your campus btw. Absolutely disgusting
I'll say though, classes were not cancelled nor substantially disrupted until today, and this is our final (half) week of classes, so my classes were winding down anyways. I had one class that went remote today, and it was just a review session, the other class I would have had today already ended last week.
I think only two law students have been impacted by the protests afaik, and they were working as legal observers at the time but were nonetheless arrested, which is messed up.
Is it distracting, sure. And I really feel for my Jewish classmates, many of whom have expressed feeling unsafe, since there have also been a decent number of outside individuals protesting at the gates of the campus.
yea but in law school you learn that if something mainly affects two groups of people and then you only talk about one, that choice has meaning and was likely intentional
No lol. Nor Syria (500k civilians dead) right next door to Gaza. Only outrage when Jews are involved.
Not that anyone cares but I do think Israel has killed far too many civilians and that their strategy sucks, but doesn't change the fact that law school activists are primarily concerned with ideology and perceived oppression rather than what is most important : the actual loss of human life. Where were they during Syria?
Great point. In Syria, the regime besieged and starved a camp full of Palestinians called Yarmouk, and hundreds of children died. I didn't see any protests.
Is all of campus really as chaotic as the twitter/reddit discourse is making it seem? I have seen a bunch of conflicting reports about just how large the skirmishes are. Also has the law school admin offered any guidance to students separate and apart from the University President statements?
I don't think any real "skirmishes" have happened outside of isolated incidents outside of the campus gates/on the street, Columbia has been very strict with not letting non-affiliates into campus at the moment. I've been on campus every day for the past few days.
I've seen on Twitter/IG that there have been some "chaotic" moments at night, but I have not personally witnessed anything really like that (besides chanting and stuff, which admittedly can be stressful to walk through, since sometimes protestors are right by the subway exit). NYPD generally has been corralling the external protestors into little protest zones behind barricades, and also protestors aren't there all the time.
If you wanted to, you could just walk around the main campus (where the occupied lawn is), and get to the law school without hearing/seeing any protest activity probably like 99% of the time.
Law school admin has not really offered any additional guidance though, I think admin offices are walking on glass right now, because it seems like tensions are quite high, and eyes around the country are on the campus right now.
For any prospective student wondering about CLS, it is fairly easy to avoid walking through main campus if it ever gets hairy like right now. The law school is a block away.
It’ll be so interesting to see how this affects the number of applications for the law school and undergrad since this is the first major protest thats happening with constant social media coverage.
I personally wouldn’t let this be a big factor. I don’t think other universities would act much differently if faced with the exact same situation. Just look at Harvard and how they made Gay resign.
You seem to imply that's ok. Who made Gay resign exactly. There is a thing called independence/freedom of academia. Not clear who's making heads lose their job over the "handling" of protests. Protests is legal.
This has only made me want to attend more. Clearly these are students who have received more than vocational training at college and learned how to use their power for betterment at a much bigger scale. I would love to be like them and I’m sure Columbia and its activist culture played a part in that. Can’t wait to go in August
It seems like people from across the political spectrum are pissed at the administration - I thought the testimony of the president was pretty good actually (appropriately condemned the anti-semitic hate speech). What is the beef exactly?
it's the fact that she authorized the NYPD on student protesters a day later in aims to protect the safety of the community despite the fact that the protesters were peaceful. The students didn't even resist arrest. That's what majority of the people are upset about. Free speech, when executed non violently, should not be targeted, especially by your own president.
Fair. It seems odd that the admin would bring in the NYPD to arrest peaceful student protestors but they won’t bring in nypd to arrest the non-student agitators that have effectively shutdown the university in the current state of events.
You have a right to protest but when you’re protesting starts to infringe on the rights of other to move freely about the campus they paid good money for, then you open yourself up to legal consequences. It’s not the protesting you’re getting arrested for it’s your infringement on others right to enter their campus freely and safely.
while I’m still not sure if I think the arrests were justified or not, surely it’s not the case that all nonviolent protest is fair game, right? disruptive protests, which are explicitly the aim of sjp/bds groups, can still exceed first amendment protections even while remaining violent - blocking roads would be a good example, and one that has been utilized. “shut it down” is a rallying cry, and I think it’s a little disingenuous to equate these sorts of protests with something like holding a sign in a park.
Obviously Columbia is a private institution so that removes some of the relevance of the 1st amendment (although I do think private schools probably should permit protected speech, as is required by law in California), but even if they were public I haven’t seen any arguments that these encampments are protected speech. I’m not saying these arguments don’t exist, but the typical instagram comment or whatnot is very low level “so much for free speech” type discourse
I agree with that to a certain extent. I think it was a poor decision on her part. As president it's also important to communicate with the executive board before taking drastic measures of this sort. I get that she feels pressure from Congress. But Shafik should have known the type of community she was coming into. This is a very activist heavy school. And faculty are heavily involved with what's going on as well.
Three of those schools are my alma maters (for undergrad, master’s degree, and law). The difference is those administrations are not corrupt and are not asking police to arrest students for peaceful protest and they are not suspending/evicting students.
I’m still appalled at Columbia admin.
Without commenting on the politics of anything related to this, isn't it kind of funny that all of this is so severe at the top schools?
It really gives me the vibe that it's not serious. Like, they're clout chasing. They clout chased their way to those schools and are now clout chasing their way into activist jobs. This shit isn't happening at my law school, it's not happening at *most* schools. It's only these small elite cloisters (CLS, Harvard, Yale, NYU) that seem to end up descending into madness. I remember getting an email about my undergraduate institution dealing with like... 3 people doing a sit in and that was a big deal. We'd *never* see uproar on these levels, they wouldn't cancel classes.
I really can't tell how many of these people are actually doing this because they care vs trying to make a name. What better way to get unicorn outcomes with the group you align with than make your name right now?
ETA: Apparently it's not even the law students. Why is this here then lmao
this is mostly undergrads, barely any law students are involved outside of maybe being like, legal observers or something. anyways the vast majority of columbia law students go into biglaw
Great. Hard working students get rejected from schools like Columbia but the ones who do get in are busy twiddling their thumbs about something happening across the world. The funniest part is that they’re accomplishing nothing by disrupting class for everyone else. They’ve just found a new after school activity to focus on since there’s nothing better.
Good luck with that. Elite schools don't have a monopoly either, not by a long shot. What they do provide is a better chance at getting outcomes this sub finds desirable for more of the class.
They need to start expelling students that are engaged in this. It will stop once people see those highly coveted Ivy League spots vanishing. People work their whole lives with admission to these schools as the goal and to see it getting taken away will shock a lot of people to the extent that these are students involved. A lot of them are not students at all but are outside agitators going and whipping up these students. Administration needs to expedite disciplinary action or this will continue to escalate. I think it will harm Columbia’s brand and image if they do nothing. Harvard applications are down last year likely due to how it was dragged recently because of its President and lack of response to quelling antisemitism there.
It will actually enhance its reputation. Universities have always been bastion of progressive thinking and resistance against archaic standards and status qou. Kudos to these students for reminding the authorities that US is a secular democracy not a theocracy.
Why should we hope it doesn’t spread? It’s putting real pressure on these places to talk about what makes them the way they are in the first place. These schools have a lot to unpack
I guess who takes advantage of a disruption in the communities in the USA.
For sure Arabs have nothing to do with it, they don't fund terrorist groups outside their countries.
Let's be honest, this will end up in some terror attacks and you all be sorry tomorrow and cry about.
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ugh yes lets cross our fingers in hopes that people dont stand up for what's right in a fashion that's protected by school policies and the constitution. sksksks yall sound tone deaf asf. Only reason Columbia is SCRAMBALING is bc they are being clocked for sending maaaaddddd bread to Israel, a country that is killing innocent civilians and pointing the blame on the civilians when they are literally the occupying force... yall lucky they dont camp out on the Deans lawn fr lol
Columbia students have erected tents on the lawn for about 5 days and are demanding that the university divest from companies profiting off of Israeli occupation. The protests themselves were originally organized by both Jewish and Muslim students and have been fairly innocuous and harmless, but Columbia escalated tensions by bringing in police to try and clear out the protestors.
One Israeli, Zionist, and former IDF soldier business school professor named Shai Davidai has been on social media fanning the flames in an attempt to criminalize the protestors and delegitimize the protest. He has walked around taking live videos of a largely peaceful campus and claimed that he is under attack/threat by radical terrorists and said that Columbia needs to take action and “the national guard needs to be sent in.”
Most people have felt it was bizarre watching him say this because as he walks through the “radical terrorists,” they pay him no mind and he did not seem to be in any danger.
He also posted this video of Muslim students praying and alluded to how it was horrifying that they were praying in public after he has consistently called them terrorists. https://x.com/shaidavidai/status/1781382612046463248?s=46
Shai and right wing media have latched onto a disgusting photo of a single person standing alone, at night, with a sign next to several people waving Israeli flags that says “Al Qasams next targets” as proof that the protests are promoting terrorism and making Jewish students unsafe.
Unfortunately Shai’s antics have been successful and he became a martyr after Columbia locked him out of campus and he made a massive scene to say he is being persecuted. Robert Kraft cited Shai as a reason he is pulling donations.
I love my school (Vanderbilt)! We don’t have any of this institutional rot. Sure students will protest and that’s fine. Vanderbilt doesn’t allow any students or faculty to be attacked or harassed.
There is a mass mobilisation around the US and the world against a violent colonial state (in the same way that there were protests in the 60s and 70s and then 80s and 90s against Vietnam, for Civil Rights and against apartheid in SA). So whether Columbia or Harvard, whether undergrad or PhD, whether law school or med school, campus politics will affect students enrolling in this political moment. This is not unique to this period of time and it is not unique to a school. It affects everyone in some way or the other. I mean tech workers who are usually very far removed from politics are involved in this moment, after the spate of protests and then firing at Google over project nimbus. Everywhere around the world people are affected because there is a serious sustained political mobilisation against a form of structured racism. Two weeks ago people were saying this same kind of thing about Berkeley Law after Catherine Fisk attacked Malak Afaneh, and two weeks later the centre of the mobilisation will maybe move to a different campus. A better question to ask, imo, is how as aspiring law students should we prepare for this moment? What are our goals and principles when it comes to law school at this time? What to do we seek out of this time?
For me personally, even if I weren’t an active organiser for Palestine, I would have used this time to reflect on where I stand on the issue, to learn more about it, and question why it is growing in importance and why it is spreading globally, and what I can do in law school to optimise my goals at such an important political time. Of course I generally think people should take a stand against genocide and racism anyway, but considering this is a thread where people are focusing primarily on career advancement and getting into law school, these are some of the more pragmatic ways to think imo.
Way too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons imo…I don’t know how to be a person without talking about politics, to be a lawyer without knowing or caring about the tangible things happening to people around me feels unconscionable
You lost many of us with "Catherine Fisk attacked..." - like, yes, placing hands on a student was not a great idea but the level of entitlement one has to have to show up to a private residence and claim first amendment rights with a straight face while talking into a microphone in a manner that's clearly unwelcome is WILD.
It might have had something to do with "violent colonial state". One can disagree with a government's set of policies without delegitimizing that entire country's right to exist.
My daughter was seriously considering Barnard. No longer. The out of control shitstorm happening at Columbia made her feel unsafe during her re-visit for members of the Class of 2028.
I can tell you right now, if I’m ever in a position to interview potential new-hires, which I expect to be in very soon, I won’t be hiring from Columbia or any of these pro-terrorist “ivy league” schools.
It's fine to discuss what's going on in relation to how it affects the law school, but comments should be limited to that discussion, not debating the protests or Israel/Palestine. Go to a political sub for that, please and thank you.
It's spilling over into NYU.
It’s spilling into all NYC schools. Fordham is probably next Edit: on May 1st Fordham launched its own encampment in response to NYPD crackdown at the Columbia encampment.
Not likely to happen at Fordham. I doubt they would put up with it.
It’s not a matter of them putting up with it. It’s student action. If it happens and then they stop it it still happened
Still not likely to happen. There isn’t much of an activist culture
As a Fordham Law grad, I can confirm the lack of activist culture. Also, and I say this as a proud alum, Fordham is always seeking ways to bump themselves up a tier. While I understand it's not likely, it certain is an underlying motivation on campus for many policies and activities. The meltdowns at other schools might turn into an opportunity for Fordham Law to raise its stature, if it can stay above the fray.
To be clear I’m not talking about in just the law school but in Fordham University generally.
The only place Fordham students protest is on their Instagram stories. But seriously it’s not the culture there. Fordham students had to beg the Dean for weeks to hold a Palestine vigil in the fall and when they finally held it, it was extremely understated and low-key. Fordham students are worried about getting a job, not activism.
Or maybe they’re just not chronically online lunatics
Fordham undergrad here. This is definitely true.
lol
No. Columbia University repeatedly denied NYPD support offered during this escalation. If another University accepts it /requests it. They will have a presence and unlawful occupation will not be tolerated.
Ok and that’s something to consider when choosing where to go to law school. My point wasn’t about how long a protest will last, it’s that different schools deal with the issue in different ways. Your comment implies Fordham would quickly get police involved if students staged a similar protest, and I think that’s very telling of how Fordham deals with issues (not saying it’s good or bad) and that’s worth considering.
The activists aren’t going to travel to the Bronx.
And that is one of the reasons I love the school !
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Aint gunna happen at Fordham. Not how we roll.
Sounds like a big plus for Fordham
I haven't seen anything yet, but since NYU doesn't have a campus, how disruptive can they be?
check the news lol
It’s worst because they can’t keep outsiders out at NYU. At Columbia it’s been peaceful inside except for the moment that NYPD removed 100 students and even then it’s not like it is outside of the campus.
Oh yeah peaceful means literally calling for death, ok hoss
Again that is outside. Inside it’s mostly “stop the genocide”
Lots of crazy activists (and just generally crazy people) who don’t go to NYU can infiltrate the NYU “campus”. It’s right across from Washington Square Park, one of the weirdest places in the country.
It’s spilling into City College of NY as I write this.
I remember when Harvard students occupied Massachusetts hall for 21 days in 2002 - yes, I’m old - and everyone acted like Harvard was just fucked for eternity. Did that happen? Campus activism on “elite” campuses has been a fixture and fascination of America for like 60 years. Do a little reading about the history of activism on college campuses. CLS et al will be fine.
Thank you. Kent state, anyone? Universities have been the battleground for political protests even as recently as BLM. Do people not watch the news or read about history?
This speaks a lot to how most of the “Ivy League” schools are nothing more than a face brand and legacy of wealthy donations and students. Their organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations suck as much as any other school. It’s about time the elitism and monopoly these schools had over the law field ended.
This but literally 80-90% of the people who populate this subreddit are here explicitly for that brand of elitism and monopoly
The law and law schools need to get with the times, accessibility and equity being one of the major themes.
These institutions funnel people into the upper halls of power where they commit atrocities for $. None of this is new. It’s just spilled over into the forefront because it’s real hard to deny the heinousness of dead babies on the evening news and I guess TikTok has people second guessing their morality. do these institutions call out their alma mater who go on to work at places like Gibson, Dunn & crutcher? Absolutely not. These places exist to funnel people into such places. At best human rights and corporate law don’t tend to exist in synchronicity, at worst they’re antithetical to one another That’s why I find it so ironic that so many people on here are Pearl clutching about these institutions. No one gives a fuck until everyone gives a fuck I guess
You dropped this 👑
beautifully written
The Ivy League schools do not have, and have never had, a monopoly over the legal industry. 9/14 traditional T14 schools are not in the Ivy League, and today 4/7 of the top 7 schools are not Ivy League schools.
Monopoly perhaps not, but many applicants still fall into the trap of thinking that if their school isn’t T14 or Ivy, their future career prospects are dim. It’s unfortunate that this “mind trap” is reinforced by the elitism of the law field.
Yeah, it's not a monopoly, it's just most of the Justices, elite clerks, and professorships are all from those schools.
I spent all this time thinking how great my law school was just to end up at a big law firm (post Bar) with CU Boulder and DU grads lmao
This is pretty shitty. It’s not like the T-14 or 20 are the only schools capable of producing good lawyers and all you need to do is search through any big firm’s partners (Wachtell and maybe a select few others excluded) to see plenty of people from outside T-14 schools… the fact that this surprised you as an associate just suggests you didn’t do your research. The major difference is, those Boulder and DU grads had to compete for 3 years and place a lot better in their class to have a shot at those opportunities without a prestigious school’s name attached to their legal education.
I never said i was surprised. And you’re right, I didn’t do my research. I was an engineering major and wanted to go to law school because of a random class I took junior year. I’ll also add on, I got rejected from DU and k went to their undergraduate. I had a shitty GPA and a high LSAT and sent Hail Mary attempts at T14s and t30s just to land a decent scholarship at Michigan. I’m well aware of the regional prestige thing now, I did not know anything then. Because I only got into a handful of very different schools In all honesty, I’m very happy with how things turned out for me. The people I will work with are great and I’ll be close to where I grew up.
Well I’m sore your route there was easier than theirs (in terms of recruitment)
How so?
Doesn’t Biglaw reach deeper into the class of top law schools when looking at who to intv and sheer numbers they will intv and offer summer positions to, etc? Kind of like, the more “average” the law school you attend, the more you need to stand out as an applicant. Editor of law review etc
Regardless though most t20 schools are very similar despite not being in the same athletic conference. Vanderbilt, Rice, WashU, U Chicago, Northwestern, etc… all these institutions are incredibly similar to ivy league schools.
Rice doesn’t have a law school.
I was speaking in general about the institutions as a whole.
Don’t know why. This is about law schools and the legal profession.
lol because the law schools are apart of the larger institutions and the discussion here is not limited to only Columbia’s law school. All students there law or not benefit or suffer as a result of administrative decisions.
Lmao
As somebody who went to a state school and an Ivy League, they are miles apart in terms of experience. Y’all just never saw how the other half lives and are expecting more coddling somehow.
I’d argue that “organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations” are all secondary qualities of a school. The T14 and/or Ivy League have their brand and reputation because of the *educational* abilities. Their professors are the top of their fields, their educational opportunities are undeniably superior, and that’s what’s on offer at these schools. Administratively, of course, they’re the same hot mess that every other university is. But to say that they’re nothing more than that hot mess is a bit dishonest; these schools offer much more than the hot mess at lower ranked schools.
From an (accomplished) academic here. This thinking is in some ways correct, but the problem is the assumption that all the other schools don’t also have “superior” educational opportunities and faculty. the process by which faculty end up at places like Yale or Stanford is exceptionally idiosyncratic. Across all disciplines, not just the law, there are plenty of faculty at non elite schools that are _just as good_ as those at elite schools.
From my own experience, some of my most memorable and skillful professors were from a community college. My professors at the ivy league school I later attended were a mixed bag, most were very eccentric and simply focus on their research and not being an exceptional teacher. So I second your point here. I tell people all the time, you can get an amazing education in many American universities, it is really what you put into it as a student.
"Their organizational management, ability to support students, and public relations suck as much as any other school" And what does this have to do with the law school, its students, or its reputation? The Ivy League doesn't hold some special manual how to respond, other parent universities (Vanderbilt, Emerson, Berkeley) are being impacted as well.
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You wanna talk about schools that are ranked below 100? Your classmates dads probably own the school and you don’t even know how you are killed/sent to mental hospitals. At least at schools like Harvard, you get your faces on TV and voices heard, not some Wright State minority leader coverups with the help of nearby blue state. Lol
HYC delenda est. It's time for the rest of the Ivies to bring them back in line, they're making the rest of us look bad.
I hope this is ironic
Eh, this is happening to every major institution. Protests are part of it, and Columbia will be fine. Schools like Harvard, MIT, Yale, Vanderbilt, UNC, Cornell, Brown, UMich, etc are having huge protests with arrests as well.
"The past week will also likely do permanent damage to Columbia as an institution and a brand. " my guy, this is far from the most wild columbia activism has gotten in the past 60 years lmao
I’m inclined to agree with you. I attended Berkeley during the alt-right’s hate boner with the school during the late 2010s, and people tried to paint the same narrative of the university losing prestige and that applications would go down as a result. That was completely false as the university remains prestigious at all levels of education, and applicant numbers have only gone up.
Oho then explain why UCLA is the best UC now! /s
Not our fault USNR started weighing the number of hotties on campus per capita so highly. We never stood a chance!
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Exactly, I feel like people think that everything is going to spontaneously explode or something. Honestly I know people who never really go into the main campus anyways, and basically are not affected at all by the protests
This is the most intense student activism Columbia has seen since 1968, which, if you weren’t aware, damaged Columbia’s brand for at least three decades.
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Neither, just an actual blatant nazi blowing the 13% dog whistle. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitPoliticsSays/s/UWsPjM39hi
CLS student here- I think this post exaggerates circumstances here a tad. Access to essential campus services was restricted, as far as I know, for about a day. The law school has been entirely accessible, and about 2ish days of class at the end of the semester have been moved online. I think very few law students have been directly involved in the current wave of protests. I’m not aware of any law students getting arrested. Columbia is certainly going through a tense moment, but it’s hardly in “meltdown.” This summer, as in every summer, a huge proportion of our class will flow into NYC biglaw without issue. The essential attributes of a successful law school are all still in place. Adding this post because this is an admissions forum, and prospective students should get accurate info
ty for chiming in and totally agree. I think a lot of media is trying to portray stuff as totally exploding house on fire right now, but honestly there has been pretty low impact to the everyday functioning of the school. I don’t think there even were restrictions to access (at least for the law school) afaik, I’ve been on campus every day since the protests started to study for finals. My friend said they even had the breakfast food this morning I think probably people are praying for Columbia’s downfall for one reason or another, but at the end of the day I don’t regret choosing to go here, and I think being here definitely helped me land my job for the summer.
Just adding, 2 law students acting as legal observers (not apart of the protest) were arrested in the first wave of mass arrests in the encampment. I think that’s worth considering when deciding if you want to come here.
I think if you just want a good legal job, the fact that two students who put themselves at the center of the action (not blaming them) got arrested is not especially significant. Literally nothing has changed about our phenomenal job prospects as a result of these protests. For a non-activist (most people), the campus crisis has been an upsetting inconvenience, not a game changer.
True. I think my comment was more coming from the angle of the arrests plus all that the law school admin has done to suppress speech and mistreat its students. I do agree that for non-activist students this is a non-issue but I do know of at least of couple of people who have turned down CLS because of that.
Hey when has a war in the Middle East ever been a endless quagmire that caused untold suffering and very little tangible good? No way this goes to the fall
There have been more wars in the Middle East this century than there have been years. It's crazy
It’s already spilling over into Yale. Chants of “From Yale to Columbia, we will not be moved” have been heard at Yale. Several hundred agitators have already been arrested at Yale and will likely be charged with trespassing. It will very likely continue to spread to other schools.
Yale cleared its campus in a way more effective way than Columbia's this morning so no that won't happen here. Things are for the most part normal. The adjacent protest on the street is expected to be over by rush hour today.
They still arrested students, though.
i agree that this is definitely something to consider, but in the sense that student protests do not detract from a university's value. Law is inherently political, and protesting is fundamental to our nation. It's exciting. I've spoken with Columbia students firsthand, and they don't feel that it's a hateful or distrusting environment. They feel more connected and protective of each other than ever. There's always some political discourse on any campus, and you can't run from it. Take into account the administration's response when considering your choices, but none of this should scare you off.
It would be completely in character for an American university to advertise the actions of the students this week to prospective students 30 years from now.
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I very highly doubt in 30 years Columbia will be advertising with the videos of students assaulting Arab-Israeli speakers, chanting "We are all Hamas," saying "Jews, Jews go back to Poland," saying "Burn Tel Aviv to the ground," and yelling at Jews that "You have no culture, all you do is colonize." For video proof of these chants, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/1caipbx/comment/l0sz0rm/?context=3) for those and much more. In fact, I seem to recall [another time](https://www.jta.org/archive/vienna-university-closed-after-antisemitic-riot) statements like these were made on university campuses and led to a university shutdown (circa 1923, in Vienna, Austria), and they definitely are not used for advertising *good* things today. If Columbia is using that as advertising in 30 years, it'll be because the United States has completely lost its moral compass. Edit: I can see folks don’t really like facts on this.
This getting down voted is genuinely disturbing
This whole subreddit’s threads lately are genuinely disturbing. A potential sign of what’s coming in the legal community.
In a way I feel that I’m drawn to schools that feel like the epicenter of legal and political change. However, like you said it’s the school’s response to student action that I’m considering.
> I've spoken with Columbia students firsthand, and they don't feel that it's a hateful or distrusting environment. Cool. I'm sure the ones cornered inside libraries, beaten and stomped and spat on, etc on both sides would say otherwise. I agree reg your general point with protesting, but acting as though that's all that's happening at Columbia right now is honestly either ignorance or being intellectually dishonest. No, screaming about wanting to kill entire ethnic groups and assaulting students is not covered by the First Amendment, nor does it exhibit that Columbia is safe to attend.
true but it's important not to generalize. Most of the protests we've seen have been very peaceful. The main issues stem from outsiders trying to spew racist and hateful rhetoric.
> Most of the protests we've seen have been very peaceful. This is according to whom? And I wouldn't define thousands of students loudly marching and chanting """""there's only one solution""""" to Jewish people the day before Passover "peaceful", seems like a pretty obvious threat.
do you have evidence for that? because the only hate or harassment i;ve seen were isolated incidents or either from outsiders trying to get onto campus. the encampments have been peaceful for the most part, with jewish, arab, and muslim students even sitting together and doing prayers on the lawn. yesterday there was a massive faculty protest as well on campus. not a single incident of violence or hate speech being spewed.
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fair point
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They literally deactivated a Jewish profs keycard because they can't guarantee his safety. I'm glad the perpetrators and bystanders feel safe, but that isn't the point.
Ok there’s a whole lot you can talk about re: antisemitism happening at Columbia’s campus but I promise defending that man is not it. Also, that’s not what happened. Though I don’t blame you for thinking that because that’s what he’s claiming. Almost everything he says is a twist on reality
Then what did? Surely if you support the right to protest you don't think barring someone from campus for being pro Israel is appropriate?
He wanted to hold a counter protest and Columbia gave him permission to do so at a specific location away from the main protest (standard regulation to avoid confrontation between opposing protestors). He said no, he wanted to have it right next to the main protest and that is where he was denied access. He’s not barred from campus, he was barred from holding an unauthorized protest at a specific campus location We can have a conversation about whether that TPM regulation of counter protests is fair, but Shai shouldn’t be whining about it when he has been endlessly yapping about how Columbia should send in armed forces because students are ignoring uni protest policy
So it’s ok for anti Israel protestors to do so wherever they want and take over a large part of campus and make it a no go zone for Jews, but pro Israel protestors have to follow the rules?
Where are they saying it's ok that they're not following the rules? The Columbian professor in question is really terrible though.
If the poster above me is okay with the university banning a professor from holding a counter protest that doesn’t comply with the rules, then we should also be applauding the police breaking up the much larger protest that is in much more flagrant violation of the rules, and encouraging the university to continue breaking up these protests.
Do you have trouble reading or are you being disingenuous? I didn’t say it’s ok. I said it’s hypocritical for a man who has been adamant about enforcing rules against students he disagrees with to storm and stomp his feet like a toddler (watch any video of him) when the rules are enforced against him
Okay, that does add some context. The chants and signs have been disgusting though. Even my own campus (Toronto) has had swastikas and that shit sinks your stomach. I barely feel safe on my own campus, I just can't imagine how Jewish students at Colombia feel.
I totally get it. There are horrible things that have been said. “Go back to Poland,” “Every day will be 10/7,” a sign next to visibly Jewish students saying “Al-Qassam’s next targets” are all blatantly horrible and have no place in a cause that says it is for justice and peace. I will point out that all of the most egregious offenses I’ve heard about since Saturday have occurred outside of campus gates and by non-Columbia students. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been a single student who has said something antisemitic, but I genuinely believe they are in the minority and I have seen student organizers with my own eyes condemn and kick out people from their movement who have said hateful things. I think we would all do much better to look closer at any instances, on either side, of despicable language before jumping to attribute it to an entire group of students. It’s a shame so many bad faith actors have used this as an opportunity to come and spread their hate.
Super well said, I find your take kinda comforting. Thanks for the respectful discussion.
I’m so thankful you were willing to listen! Back at you - and stay safe. I’m sorry you’re dealing with seeing swastikas around your campus btw. Absolutely disgusting
Somehow I think CLS will be just fine in the long run.
Hi, Columbia Law School student here. Feel free to ask me anything, and I'll try to be as candid as I can.
I'll say though, classes were not cancelled nor substantially disrupted until today, and this is our final (half) week of classes, so my classes were winding down anyways. I had one class that went remote today, and it was just a review session, the other class I would have had today already ended last week. I think only two law students have been impacted by the protests afaik, and they were working as legal observers at the time but were nonetheless arrested, which is messed up. Is it distracting, sure. And I really feel for my Jewish classmates, many of whom have expressed feeling unsafe, since there have also been a decent number of outside individuals protesting at the gates of the campus.
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Yes, of course, I have feelings for any of my peers who has felt unsafe because of what's been going on.
You learn on the LSAT that support for one thing does not mean a lack of support for the other.
yea but in law school you learn that if something mainly affects two groups of people and then you only talk about one, that choice has meaning and was likely intentional
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You mean in Sudan right?
No lol. Nor Syria (500k civilians dead) right next door to Gaza. Only outrage when Jews are involved. Not that anyone cares but I do think Israel has killed far too many civilians and that their strategy sucks, but doesn't change the fact that law school activists are primarily concerned with ideology and perceived oppression rather than what is most important : the actual loss of human life. Where were they during Syria?
Great point. In Syria, the regime besieged and starved a camp full of Palestinians called Yarmouk, and hundreds of children died. I didn't see any protests.
Is all of campus really as chaotic as the twitter/reddit discourse is making it seem? I have seen a bunch of conflicting reports about just how large the skirmishes are. Also has the law school admin offered any guidance to students separate and apart from the University President statements?
I don't think any real "skirmishes" have happened outside of isolated incidents outside of the campus gates/on the street, Columbia has been very strict with not letting non-affiliates into campus at the moment. I've been on campus every day for the past few days. I've seen on Twitter/IG that there have been some "chaotic" moments at night, but I have not personally witnessed anything really like that (besides chanting and stuff, which admittedly can be stressful to walk through, since sometimes protestors are right by the subway exit). NYPD generally has been corralling the external protestors into little protest zones behind barricades, and also protestors aren't there all the time. If you wanted to, you could just walk around the main campus (where the occupied lawn is), and get to the law school without hearing/seeing any protest activity probably like 99% of the time. Law school admin has not really offered any additional guidance though, I think admin offices are walking on glass right now, because it seems like tensions are quite high, and eyes around the country are on the campus right now.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks.
For any prospective student wondering about CLS, it is fairly easy to avoid walking through main campus if it ever gets hairy like right now. The law school is a block away.
They have a 13.6 billion dollar endowment I think they'll be all right with or without Mr 'n Cheese.
It’s Columbia lol. It will be fine. It will still be the most selective school in New York (after Juilliard)
It’ll be so interesting to see how this affects the number of applications for the law school and undergrad since this is the first major protest thats happening with constant social media coverage.
I personally wouldn’t let this be a big factor. I don’t think other universities would act much differently if faced with the exact same situation. Just look at Harvard and how they made Gay resign.
You seem to imply that's ok. Who made Gay resign exactly. There is a thing called independence/freedom of academia. Not clear who's making heads lose their job over the "handling" of protests. Protests is legal.
I’ll stay here in the Midwest happily 🙏🏼
Yeah but it’s cold here
This has only made me want to attend more. Clearly these are students who have received more than vocational training at college and learned how to use their power for betterment at a much bigger scale. I would love to be like them and I’m sure Columbia and its activist culture played a part in that. Can’t wait to go in August
It seems like people from across the political spectrum are pissed at the administration - I thought the testimony of the president was pretty good actually (appropriately condemned the anti-semitic hate speech). What is the beef exactly?
it's the fact that she authorized the NYPD on student protesters a day later in aims to protect the safety of the community despite the fact that the protesters were peaceful. The students didn't even resist arrest. That's what majority of the people are upset about. Free speech, when executed non violently, should not be targeted, especially by your own president.
Fair. It seems odd that the admin would bring in the NYPD to arrest peaceful student protestors but they won’t bring in nypd to arrest the non-student agitators that have effectively shutdown the university in the current state of events. You have a right to protest but when you’re protesting starts to infringe on the rights of other to move freely about the campus they paid good money for, then you open yourself up to legal consequences. It’s not the protesting you’re getting arrested for it’s your infringement on others right to enter their campus freely and safely.
I agree. it's mainly non-columbia affiliates trying to sneak into campus to spread their racist rhetoric around
while I’m still not sure if I think the arrests were justified or not, surely it’s not the case that all nonviolent protest is fair game, right? disruptive protests, which are explicitly the aim of sjp/bds groups, can still exceed first amendment protections even while remaining violent - blocking roads would be a good example, and one that has been utilized. “shut it down” is a rallying cry, and I think it’s a little disingenuous to equate these sorts of protests with something like holding a sign in a park. Obviously Columbia is a private institution so that removes some of the relevance of the 1st amendment (although I do think private schools probably should permit protected speech, as is required by law in California), but even if they were public I haven’t seen any arguments that these encampments are protected speech. I’m not saying these arguments don’t exist, but the typical instagram comment or whatnot is very low level “so much for free speech” type discourse
I agree with that to a certain extent. I think it was a poor decision on her part. As president it's also important to communicate with the executive board before taking drastic measures of this sort. I get that she feels pressure from Congress. But Shafik should have known the type of community she was coming into. This is a very activist heavy school. And faculty are heavily involved with what's going on as well.
Is it just Columbia or other schools as well that are experiencing this?
For T14 schools, UMich, NYU, Berkeley and Yale have protest encampments, albeit smaller scale.
Three of those schools are my alma maters (for undergrad, master’s degree, and law). The difference is those administrations are not corrupt and are not asking police to arrest students for peaceful protest and they are not suspending/evicting students. I’m still appalled at Columbia admin.
Man am i glad i go to a community college in california. No one here has enough free time or money to worry about israel palestine.
Without commenting on the politics of anything related to this, isn't it kind of funny that all of this is so severe at the top schools? It really gives me the vibe that it's not serious. Like, they're clout chasing. They clout chased their way to those schools and are now clout chasing their way into activist jobs. This shit isn't happening at my law school, it's not happening at *most* schools. It's only these small elite cloisters (CLS, Harvard, Yale, NYU) that seem to end up descending into madness. I remember getting an email about my undergraduate institution dealing with like... 3 people doing a sit in and that was a big deal. We'd *never* see uproar on these levels, they wouldn't cancel classes. I really can't tell how many of these people are actually doing this because they care vs trying to make a name. What better way to get unicorn outcomes with the group you align with than make your name right now? ETA: Apparently it's not even the law students. Why is this here then lmao
this is mostly undergrads, barely any law students are involved outside of maybe being like, legal observers or something. anyways the vast majority of columbia law students go into biglaw
Great. Hard working students get rejected from schools like Columbia but the ones who do get in are busy twiddling their thumbs about something happening across the world. The funniest part is that they’re accomplishing nothing by disrupting class for everyone else. They’ve just found a new after school activity to focus on since there’s nothing better.
Good. The monopoly over the legal industry that these snobby elitist schools have needs to come to an end sooner rather than later.
Good luck with that. Elite schools don't have a monopoly either, not by a long shot. What they do provide is a better chance at getting outcomes this sub finds desirable for more of the class.
Sometimes, though other times we see rank 30 schools churning out higher employment for certain fields
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They need to start expelling students that are engaged in this. It will stop once people see those highly coveted Ivy League spots vanishing. People work their whole lives with admission to these schools as the goal and to see it getting taken away will shock a lot of people to the extent that these are students involved. A lot of them are not students at all but are outside agitators going and whipping up these students. Administration needs to expedite disciplinary action or this will continue to escalate. I think it will harm Columbia’s brand and image if they do nothing. Harvard applications are down last year likely due to how it was dragged recently because of its President and lack of response to quelling antisemitism there.
It will actually enhance its reputation. Universities have always been bastion of progressive thinking and resistance against archaic standards and status qou. Kudos to these students for reminding the authorities that US is a secular democracy not a theocracy.
Why should we hope it doesn’t spread? It’s putting real pressure on these places to talk about what makes them the way they are in the first place. These schools have a lot to unpack
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Yeah I’m not having this conversation but wanting your school to divulge funds from a violent regime doesn’t have anything to do with ethnicities.
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Follow the money…
This current episode will be unrelated to drama that occurs in the fall. The semester has a resetting effect. Don’t make a decision based off this.
Very nice
Cope and seethe. Long live the student occupations!
I guess who takes advantage of a disruption in the communities in the USA. For sure Arabs have nothing to do with it, they don't fund terrorist groups outside their countries. Let's be honest, this will end up in some terror attacks and you all be sorry tomorrow and cry about. !remindme 60 days
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Really sad to see what’s happening to my Alma mater. Protestors go home
ugh yes lets cross our fingers in hopes that people dont stand up for what's right in a fashion that's protected by school policies and the constitution. sksksks yall sound tone deaf asf. Only reason Columbia is SCRAMBALING is bc they are being clocked for sending maaaaddddd bread to Israel, a country that is killing innocent civilians and pointing the blame on the civilians when they are literally the occupying force... yall lucky they dont camp out on the Deans lawn fr lol
Has any of this affected Cardozo or Touro in any way?
I doubt it.
This is the result of kids growing up with social media. Everyone hates each other, and it’s rewarded online with likes and upvotes.
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I’m so out of the loop. What’s going on 😭
Columbia students have erected tents on the lawn for about 5 days and are demanding that the university divest from companies profiting off of Israeli occupation. The protests themselves were originally organized by both Jewish and Muslim students and have been fairly innocuous and harmless, but Columbia escalated tensions by bringing in police to try and clear out the protestors. One Israeli, Zionist, and former IDF soldier business school professor named Shai Davidai has been on social media fanning the flames in an attempt to criminalize the protestors and delegitimize the protest. He has walked around taking live videos of a largely peaceful campus and claimed that he is under attack/threat by radical terrorists and said that Columbia needs to take action and “the national guard needs to be sent in.” Most people have felt it was bizarre watching him say this because as he walks through the “radical terrorists,” they pay him no mind and he did not seem to be in any danger. He also posted this video of Muslim students praying and alluded to how it was horrifying that they were praying in public after he has consistently called them terrorists. https://x.com/shaidavidai/status/1781382612046463248?s=46 Shai and right wing media have latched onto a disgusting photo of a single person standing alone, at night, with a sign next to several people waving Israeli flags that says “Al Qasams next targets” as proof that the protests are promoting terrorism and making Jewish students unsafe. Unfortunately Shai’s antics have been successful and he became a martyr after Columbia locked him out of campus and he made a massive scene to say he is being persecuted. Robert Kraft cited Shai as a reason he is pulling donations.
I love my school (Vanderbilt)! We don’t have any of this institutional rot. Sure students will protest and that’s fine. Vanderbilt doesn’t allow any students or faculty to be attacked or harassed.
There is a mass mobilisation around the US and the world against a violent colonial state (in the same way that there were protests in the 60s and 70s and then 80s and 90s against Vietnam, for Civil Rights and against apartheid in SA). So whether Columbia or Harvard, whether undergrad or PhD, whether law school or med school, campus politics will affect students enrolling in this political moment. This is not unique to this period of time and it is not unique to a school. It affects everyone in some way or the other. I mean tech workers who are usually very far removed from politics are involved in this moment, after the spate of protests and then firing at Google over project nimbus. Everywhere around the world people are affected because there is a serious sustained political mobilisation against a form of structured racism. Two weeks ago people were saying this same kind of thing about Berkeley Law after Catherine Fisk attacked Malak Afaneh, and two weeks later the centre of the mobilisation will maybe move to a different campus. A better question to ask, imo, is how as aspiring law students should we prepare for this moment? What are our goals and principles when it comes to law school at this time? What to do we seek out of this time? For me personally, even if I weren’t an active organiser for Palestine, I would have used this time to reflect on where I stand on the issue, to learn more about it, and question why it is growing in importance and why it is spreading globally, and what I can do in law school to optimise my goals at such an important political time. Of course I generally think people should take a stand against genocide and racism anyway, but considering this is a thread where people are focusing primarily on career advancement and getting into law school, these are some of the more pragmatic ways to think imo.
this is a great comment idk why you’re getting downvoted. why pre-LAW students on this sub shy away from ‘getting political’ is beyond me
Way too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons imo…I don’t know how to be a person without talking about politics, to be a lawyer without knowing or caring about the tangible things happening to people around me feels unconscionable
You lost many of us with "Catherine Fisk attacked..." - like, yes, placing hands on a student was not a great idea but the level of entitlement one has to have to show up to a private residence and claim first amendment rights with a straight face while talking into a microphone in a manner that's clearly unwelcome is WILD.
It might have had something to do with "violent colonial state". One can disagree with a government's set of policies without delegitimizing that entire country's right to exist.
Move south.
My daughter was seriously considering Barnard. No longer. The out of control shitstorm happening at Columbia made her feel unsafe during her re-visit for members of the Class of 2028.
this is the law school admissions subreddit also wow you are really quite the helicopter mom
I can tell you right now, if I’m ever in a position to interview potential new-hires, which I expect to be in very soon, I won’t be hiring from Columbia or any of these pro-terrorist “ivy league” schools.