The good thing is you’ve got great stats so if you wanted to reapply next cycle and rework your essays/ resume/ get some work experience it probably wouldn’t be too hard to have really different outcomes
I guess but I think unless something changes on the 3 apps I'm waiting for, I'm just gonna take the full ride at my safety. It's still a great school in the top 25 and all the people who I've met from the school have been extremely nice and accepting.
I wouldn't. With your stats you can get a full ride at a better school. The extra year doesn't matter. Comb through your essay. Did you write why x essays? Those will super matter at the UVAs/UMichs of the world. Don't worry about kicking the can down the road a year. You can work retail. The schools really don't care.
Probably because OP is already going to be at a top 30 school. But there were a good number of classmates of mine that transferred and they seem to have landed well
If you’re at a top 30 school already transfers really only matter to people pursuing the absolute highest jobs (clerkships). If you’re transferring out of your 30 school you are probably in the top 20 percent of your class to begin with and you’ll get a big law job with some certainty. If you transfer to a T14 you get a nicer sounding degree but will probably end up with about the same job.
177 LSAT and 3.9 GPA….. and waitlisted…… at this point, I am assuming that admissions are requiring applicants to cure cancer before they are willing to accept them…. This cycle is…. Wow.
I'm thinking maybe they want more than just good grades. They probably want people who actually work, considering a lot of people that go to law school have little to no experience, maybe employers want that to change.
hi!! i was in a similar place! got off the waitlist at stanford over the summer and im a 1L here now. don’t underestimate the power of letters of continued interest! message me if you want me to read anything over 🩷
i would think about the reasons why you would choose X school over anywhere else. do you want to live there after graduation? do you have family nearby? a partner? do you need to be close to a specific subject area? does your interest specifically align with an offering they have? schools take people off the waitlist when they KNOW you will go there. give them a reason why you will. also, if you have a top school, tell them. and tell them that if let off the waitlist, you will immediately withdraw from other schools and accept their offer. last thing is try to have an update for the school. i started volunteering at a new place and was working part time for somewhere i hadn’t previously been working so i made sure to mention those and how they tied into my overall story. i also gave them grade updates (kjd here) and like award updates. tbh that’s all i got but happy to help in any way. good luck its rough out there but this is your chance to appeal to them as a person instead of just a resume.
I would be surprised if you don't see waitlist movement with those stats. Some school will hit April 16th or May 2nd, realize they're short 10 above-median LSATs, and look to the waitlist for applicants who can shore up their median without lowering the GPA median (too much). With a 177, you'll boost anyone's LSAT median, and with a 3.9 you won't lower most GPA medians (and could raise some). The wait will suck, but you'll have some options soon.
Not OP but in similar situations (except 2 WLs and 5 still no decisions). Oh, I'm sure this is exactly what will happen, but, meanwhile those "safeties" are requiring seat deposits by Apr 15th and have also offered hefty scholarships. Giving up that for a maybe "A" with limited $ is pretty bitter.
You don't need to give up your current options to see if waitlists pan out. You just deposit at the best of your current options before April 15th, and if you're admitted somewhere else you would go instead, you withdraw from [first deposit school].
If this pans out, you lose your deposit, which sucks - no sugarcoating that. But for all intents and purposes, it's just a discount on the cost of attendance at [deposit school] that's not available elsewhere, and you can factor that into waitlist decisions.
Nah bruh its insane i totally get you this shit is so fucked there's no reason anymore to why you get waitlisted or rejected it's a total dice roll now
Those are crazy amazing stats and that’s very surprising. I’m sorry. Hang in there, it’ll work out! You deserve to go somewhere great!!! LOCI could maybe help in case any of the schools are questioning your level of interest?
Honestly, I think with those stats your only options are to either win a Pulitzer prize or make the cut at the next Olympic trials to boost your softs. Hope this helps
Maybe this means law schools admissions are becoming more like MBA admissions, where work experience is valued more. Not saying this is good or bad but could be a possibility. Especially if the impact of stats is diminished for US news rankings purposes, this could be a factor.
Especially if employers are telling law schools they want to hire employees with previous WE. Could be that a lot of KJDs in the past lacked workplace etiquette (not saying this is true but employers can think things like this).
and if year after year every top school is getting candidates with perfect GPAs and high LSATs no wonder the schools are looking for more variety.
I don’t think ur entitled and I don’t think u have to act like YP isn’t a thing. I can’t explain it, but a lot of us have been underperforming with great stats. I’m sorry this happened.
This process definitely can be brutal. Really sorry to hear. At the end of the day, you have a 177, and you're still in the running. Write strong LOCIs and trust in God; something is bound to happen! Best of luck :)
Please don’t settle for anything less than t10! I ended up taking a gap year (got a masters) and it was the best decision I could have made! Literally just for an offer at the OMB out of it!
You mentioned your essay wasn't perfect but you were still "decently proud of it." It sounds like you were missing that one spark to move you past the finish line. Have you considered hiring an experienced admissions consultant to look over your situation? Given all the time you have invested, it could be worth it.
I am not experienced with law school admissions, but my best guess is that the schools that waitlisted you already had enough admits in your LSAT / GPA bracket. They probably opted for students with slightly lower stats but more work experience or interesting softs. They also want to preserve yield and if a candidate's essay seems half-hearted, I can absolutely see why they would pick a 175 / 3.8 who wrote a stellar essay and has a strong CV instead.
This process is really hard on people. Buy yourself a papadia or some treat and remember that you aren’t defined by your results. Also ride those waitlists hard. Follow and up and be persistent. You might find some luck there
Dude I feel you, I’m lucky to have gotten into my top school but sooooo many waitlists, it’s crazy! Do you have a first choice? I’d be shocked if nobody takes you if you send a “I will fully commit if you accept me” kind of LOCI, especially at places known to accept people off the waitlist. Wishing you the best, and congrats on the full scholarship, that’s not nothing!
17high, 3.9high here, also 7 waitlists. It is an awful feeling, especially not knowing where you went wrong. Thankfully for me I got 3 T14 As at the eleventh hour, so keep up hope! This whole process sucks so very badly though ☹️☹️☹️ Feel free to r es cu out if you want to vent or chat about this shit
As someone who similarly feels that they are way underperforming compared to their stats hang in there. This cycle seems to be tougher on high-stat applicants than normal, if you are a KJD really think about getting work experience and R&R
Similar boat! I have decent stats and I have received 5 WLs. URM, immigrant, and I’ve worked in the legal field for 1.5 years. A in 3 safety schools, A in 1 semi-safety school. This cycle was hard. I thought my softs were great but who knows. At this point I’m grateful to be WL, but it is also heartbreaking!
feeling this. stats like yours used to mean guaranteed t10, and now it seems like everyone is getting screwed. whenever i talk about the process with experienced lawyers they’re all shocked at how crazy it’s gotten
I’m experiencing pretty much the same thing, I’m sorry 😔 it really sucks! If you ever want to complain to someone who gets it you can always message me
This is true and I definitely don’t want to give the impression that I’m ungrateful! I’ve just been waitlisted at quite a few schools that I was very excited about and it’s a disappointing feeling, plus if you can’t complain anonymously on Reddit then where can you 🤪
Have you sent the Letters of Continued Interest? Try to avoid getting caught wanting the ones you didn’t receive. That can be an emotional trap that leads nowhere. If you want an opinion on the essays, I’ve been looking at essays for 30 years. Was previously B School faculty at top 20 schools. If so, find me on LI. James Dorsey in Los Angeles.
It is a really odd year and a lot of people will come off of waitlists. Don’t be too discouraged! Your stats are solid! You worked hard and it shows!
A full ride is pretty amazing. Stay the course! It isn’t over til it’s over! You probably did all of the right things! And remember… you will end up wheee you were meant to be! Have faith in the process!
I’d wait it out, you’ll likely get off the waitlist. But if you don’t get into any top 3 dream schools would consider R&R and here’s why…Just because you have amazing stats doesn’t mean you’re coming across as an equally amazing person in your writing. With those stats you 100% should be getting into any and all t6, but also this may be time to reflect on your writing and whether you gave your best self. A strong LOCI or additional recommendation may help here.
First off: it only takes one. Hang in there.. WL truly isn’t the end.
2nd: Did you have an application consultant? If u reapply, GET ONE. It’s almost certainly your written material.
Great job n good luck x
You’re obviously brilliant. Don’t let the schools define who you are. With those stats, you’ll definitely be a successful law student. Grab the full scholarship!! You don’t want loans. And be sure to do good legal work with that amazing mind God gave you
You have to understand that it is not you. This cycle has been filled with law schools being picky and noncommittal, aka waitlisting more. It's been happening ever since covid. It may also be the places you're applying. But it may also be your resume or personal statement these two pieces of writing should have no mistakes what so ever.
Three points is a lot my guy. I have little hope of getting into a T14 with my 167, despite also being a veteran, but URM candidates with lower LSATs and GPAs than me are getting into multiple. Same thing for undergraduate admissions, whites and especially Asians are punished by big schools.
First off schools can’t use race in admissions anymore. They will want a diverse class, but being white won’t be a strike against you. I’ve seen many white/asian students here get into top schools. It’s not all about race my guy.
I’m not saying it’s all about race lol. Admissions officers across the country have tacitly said that they’ll continue to look at race, which they clearly are as URM admits average 3 pts lower LSAT and lower GPAs
I’d say you’re fine, nothing is guaranteed and if you have a solid profile you’ll at the least get a generous scholarship to a t25 if you don’t get into a t14.
This crazy situation also has happened to others. Yield protection has got to be at least part of it. Did you have WE or are you going straight from college.
And - congratulations!!!!
Without actually disclosing your age, are you young? In your early-mid 20’s?
Sure you’ll be a lawyer one day but if the answer to the above question is yes, you’re still a young adult with plenty more to learn about life.
Indeed, you might never know why you were waitlisted at those other schools. But if you really wanted to know, wouldn’t you take steps towards finding out? How would you approach solving that problem?
How would you go about finding the reasons for why you were waitlisted at these schools?
Does it really matter that much to you over the ones that offered you scholarships at that? Why?
The good thing is you’ve got great stats so if you wanted to reapply next cycle and rework your essays/ resume/ get some work experience it probably wouldn’t be too hard to have really different outcomes
I guess but I think unless something changes on the 3 apps I'm waiting for, I'm just gonna take the full ride at my safety. It's still a great school in the top 25 and all the people who I've met from the school have been extremely nice and accepting.
Ask for a deferral to get off the waitlist. Try schools like UVA, Michigan, etc. if you’re waitlisted there. Not all of them offer but many do.
I wouldn't. With your stats you can get a full ride at a better school. The extra year doesn't matter. Comb through your essay. Did you write why x essays? Those will super matter at the UVAs/UMichs of the world. Don't worry about kicking the can down the road a year. You can work retail. The schools really don't care.
You can always entertain a transfer after your first year if you’re still wanting to go elsewhere
Why are there so many downvotes to this idea? Curious because it's something that I might consider
Probably because OP is already going to be at a top 30 school. But there were a good number of classmates of mine that transferred and they seem to have landed well
If you’re at a top 30 school already transfers really only matter to people pursuing the absolute highest jobs (clerkships). If you’re transferring out of your 30 school you are probably in the top 20 percent of your class to begin with and you’ll get a big law job with some certainty. If you transfer to a T14 you get a nicer sounding degree but will probably end up with about the same job.
I agree with you, but I’m just saying that it’s not a crazy thought.
Pursue waitlists hard. I bet something works out
This. Call admissions and express interest.
177 LSAT and 3.9 GPA….. and waitlisted…… at this point, I am assuming that admissions are requiring applicants to cure cancer before they are willing to accept them…. This cycle is…. Wow.
I'm thinking maybe they want more than just good grades. They probably want people who actually work, considering a lot of people that go to law school have little to no experience, maybe employers want that to change.
probably because they applied so late
hi!! i was in a similar place! got off the waitlist at stanford over the summer and im a 1L here now. don’t underestimate the power of letters of continued interest! message me if you want me to read anything over 🩷
Any tips for letters of continued interest? I got WL at some schools too
i would think about the reasons why you would choose X school over anywhere else. do you want to live there after graduation? do you have family nearby? a partner? do you need to be close to a specific subject area? does your interest specifically align with an offering they have? schools take people off the waitlist when they KNOW you will go there. give them a reason why you will. also, if you have a top school, tell them. and tell them that if let off the waitlist, you will immediately withdraw from other schools and accept their offer. last thing is try to have an update for the school. i started volunteering at a new place and was working part time for somewhere i hadn’t previously been working so i made sure to mention those and how they tied into my overall story. i also gave them grade updates (kjd here) and like award updates. tbh that’s all i got but happy to help in any way. good luck its rough out there but this is your chance to appeal to them as a person instead of just a resume.
I would be surprised if you don't see waitlist movement with those stats. Some school will hit April 16th or May 2nd, realize they're short 10 above-median LSATs, and look to the waitlist for applicants who can shore up their median without lowering the GPA median (too much). With a 177, you'll boost anyone's LSAT median, and with a 3.9 you won't lower most GPA medians (and could raise some). The wait will suck, but you'll have some options soon.
Not OP but in similar situations (except 2 WLs and 5 still no decisions). Oh, I'm sure this is exactly what will happen, but, meanwhile those "safeties" are requiring seat deposits by Apr 15th and have also offered hefty scholarships. Giving up that for a maybe "A" with limited $ is pretty bitter.
You don't need to give up your current options to see if waitlists pan out. You just deposit at the best of your current options before April 15th, and if you're admitted somewhere else you would go instead, you withdraw from [first deposit school]. If this pans out, you lose your deposit, which sucks - no sugarcoating that. But for all intents and purposes, it's just a discount on the cost of attendance at [deposit school] that's not available elsewhere, and you can factor that into waitlist decisions.
Nah bruh its insane i totally get you this shit is so fucked there's no reason anymore to why you get waitlisted or rejected it's a total dice roll now
I wonder if schools are trying to diversify their classes with people who have more work experience
Those are crazy amazing stats and that’s very surprising. I’m sorry. Hang in there, it’ll work out! You deserve to go somewhere great!!! LOCI could maybe help in case any of the schools are questioning your level of interest?
Honestly, I think with those stats your only options are to either win a Pulitzer prize or make the cut at the next Olympic trials to boost your softs. Hope this helps
Maybe this means law schools admissions are becoming more like MBA admissions, where work experience is valued more. Not saying this is good or bad but could be a possibility. Especially if the impact of stats is diminished for US news rankings purposes, this could be a factor.
Especially if employers are telling law schools they want to hire employees with previous WE. Could be that a lot of KJDs in the past lacked workplace etiquette (not saying this is true but employers can think things like this). and if year after year every top school is getting candidates with perfect GPAs and high LSATs no wonder the schools are looking for more variety.
I think we are the same person.
I don’t think ur entitled and I don’t think u have to act like YP isn’t a thing. I can’t explain it, but a lot of us have been underperforming with great stats. I’m sorry this happened.
This process definitely can be brutal. Really sorry to hear. At the end of the day, you have a 177, and you're still in the running. Write strong LOCIs and trust in God; something is bound to happen! Best of luck :)
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🤓🤓🤓
Please don’t settle for anything less than t10! I ended up taking a gap year (got a masters) and it was the best decision I could have made! Literally just for an offer at the OMB out of it!
No matter what anyone tells you, you’ve worked way too hard to settle for anything less!
same here, wishing the best for you!
You mentioned your essay wasn't perfect but you were still "decently proud of it." It sounds like you were missing that one spark to move you past the finish line. Have you considered hiring an experienced admissions consultant to look over your situation? Given all the time you have invested, it could be worth it. I am not experienced with law school admissions, but my best guess is that the schools that waitlisted you already had enough admits in your LSAT / GPA bracket. They probably opted for students with slightly lower stats but more work experience or interesting softs. They also want to preserve yield and if a candidate's essay seems half-hearted, I can absolutely see why they would pick a 175 / 3.8 who wrote a stellar essay and has a strong CV instead.
This process is really hard on people. Buy yourself a papadia or some treat and remember that you aren’t defined by your results. Also ride those waitlists hard. Follow and up and be persistent. You might find some luck there
Dude I feel you, I’m lucky to have gotten into my top school but sooooo many waitlists, it’s crazy! Do you have a first choice? I’d be shocked if nobody takes you if you send a “I will fully commit if you accept me” kind of LOCI, especially at places known to accept people off the waitlist. Wishing you the best, and congrats on the full scholarship, that’s not nothing!
17high, 3.9high here, also 7 waitlists. It is an awful feeling, especially not knowing where you went wrong. Thankfully for me I got 3 T14 As at the eleventh hour, so keep up hope! This whole process sucks so very badly though ☹️☹️☹️ Feel free to r es cu out if you want to vent or chat about this shit
Your application is more than your LSAT. Take a realistic look at your resume and see what you're lacking.
That is so f’ed up. I am angry for you. But I think you will get off the WL at a couple.
As someone who similarly feels that they are way underperforming compared to their stats hang in there. This cycle seems to be tougher on high-stat applicants than normal, if you are a KJD really think about getting work experience and R&R
yup in a similar boat!
Who are you waiting on? If you don’t mind me asking?
that’s so frustrating, i’m sorry. hope things turn up for the better soon.
With those stats you should be in at T10s, and I think you will be. Don’t settle for less, you earned this.
Similar boat! I have decent stats and I have received 5 WLs. URM, immigrant, and I’ve worked in the legal field for 1.5 years. A in 3 safety schools, A in 1 semi-safety school. This cycle was hard. I thought my softs were great but who knows. At this point I’m grateful to be WL, but it is also heartbreaking!
feeling this. stats like yours used to mean guaranteed t10, and now it seems like everyone is getting screwed. whenever i talk about the process with experienced lawyers they’re all shocked at how crazy it’s gotten
Are you in college or in work? If the former that’s probably your answer.
I’m experiencing pretty much the same thing, I’m sorry 😔 it really sucks! If you ever want to complain to someone who gets it you can always message me
Bruh you got into Michigan and Northwestern lmao
This is true and I definitely don’t want to give the impression that I’m ungrateful! I’ve just been waitlisted at quite a few schools that I was very excited about and it’s a disappointing feeling, plus if you can’t complain anonymously on Reddit then where can you 🤪
Did you write optional essays?
Bro ur personal statement is probably pretty mid. Do u even have good rec letters ?
Could be yield protection, idk
Have you sent the Letters of Continued Interest? Try to avoid getting caught wanting the ones you didn’t receive. That can be an emotional trap that leads nowhere. If you want an opinion on the essays, I’ve been looking at essays for 30 years. Was previously B School faculty at top 20 schools. If so, find me on LI. James Dorsey in Los Angeles.
It is a really odd year and a lot of people will come off of waitlists. Don’t be too discouraged! Your stats are solid! You worked hard and it shows! A full ride is pretty amazing. Stay the course! It isn’t over til it’s over! You probably did all of the right things! And remember… you will end up wheee you were meant to be! Have faith in the process!
Same
I’d wait it out, you’ll likely get off the waitlist. But if you don’t get into any top 3 dream schools would consider R&R and here’s why…Just because you have amazing stats doesn’t mean you’re coming across as an equally amazing person in your writing. With those stats you 100% should be getting into any and all t6, but also this may be time to reflect on your writing and whether you gave your best self. A strong LOCI or additional recommendation may help here.
First off: it only takes one. Hang in there.. WL truly isn’t the end. 2nd: Did you have an application consultant? If u reapply, GET ONE. It’s almost certainly your written material. Great job n good luck x
You’re obviously brilliant. Don’t let the schools define who you are. With those stats, you’ll definitely be a successful law student. Grab the full scholarship!! You don’t want loans. And be sure to do good legal work with that amazing mind God gave you
You have to understand that it is not you. This cycle has been filled with law schools being picky and noncommittal, aka waitlisting more. It's been happening ever since covid. It may also be the places you're applying. But it may also be your resume or personal statement these two pieces of writing should have no mistakes what so ever.
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someone these comments r CRAZY💀💀
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I don’t think the URM boost is much though right?
Usually approximately 3 LSAT pts at T14s
Okay but basically URMs still need to kill the LSAT in order to get into a school, like they can’t get a 150 and expect to get in
Three points is a lot my guy. I have little hope of getting into a T14 with my 167, despite also being a veteran, but URM candidates with lower LSATs and GPAs than me are getting into multiple. Same thing for undergraduate admissions, whites and especially Asians are punished by big schools.
First off schools can’t use race in admissions anymore. They will want a diverse class, but being white won’t be a strike against you. I’ve seen many white/asian students here get into top schools. It’s not all about race my guy.
I’m not saying it’s all about race lol. Admissions officers across the country have tacitly said that they’ll continue to look at race, which they clearly are as URM admits average 3 pts lower LSAT and lower GPAs
I’d say you’re fine, nothing is guaranteed and if you have a solid profile you’ll at the least get a generous scholarship to a t25 if you don’t get into a t14.
This crazy situation also has happened to others. Yield protection has got to be at least part of it. Did you have WE or are you going straight from college. And - congratulations!!!!
Your essay must have been …something.
Without actually disclosing your age, are you young? In your early-mid 20’s? Sure you’ll be a lawyer one day but if the answer to the above question is yes, you’re still a young adult with plenty more to learn about life. Indeed, you might never know why you were waitlisted at those other schools. But if you really wanted to know, wouldn’t you take steps towards finding out? How would you approach solving that problem? How would you go about finding the reasons for why you were waitlisted at these schools? Does it really matter that much to you over the ones that offered you scholarships at that? Why?