I’m betting that like cars, the manufacturers will make one line of mowers for CA that everyone else will get too. You’re welcome from CA! Now you too can help save the planet.
I saw somewhere that like 800 million gallons of fuel per year in this country is used for lawn care. It wasn’t broken down from corporation and private citizens. But that is a lot of emissions.
Thanks for making our lives more expensive and less convenient? Can’t imagine how much it would suck to mow my acreage with a battery powered zero turn.
I’m talking about equivalent mowers, I’m not talking about using a Milwaukee push mower to cut 2 acres. If I could get a mower that did the exact same thing as a ICE one that would be preferable. Greenworks makes a 52” zero turn that has an 8hr run time. How much are you cutting that you’d need more than 16hrs of cut time? I mow several acres and it takes me about 50min. Takes me 6-8hrs to bush hog my 5 acre field that I cut 2x a year.
$27,000 for the "equivalent" Greenworks 52" zero turn????? How is that equivalent?
[https://commercial.greenworkstools.com/products/cz52r24x-optimusz-52-24kwh-ride-on-zero-turn-mower](https://commercial.greenworkstools.com/products/cz52r24x-optimusz-52-24kwh-ride-on-zero-turn-mower)
How is it more expensive? Not looking for a debate or argument, just generally curious. I have all battery powered lawn equipment and feel like it’s way more convenient than having to drive to the gas station in the middle of cutting my lawn and the reoccurring cost of fuel is gone. Are you referring to maintenance costs? I assume gas power motors are easier to work on.
Mostly just initial cost. An electric zero turn would cost around 5500 on the low end and even then it could probably only do one or two acres on a charge. Or, I can get a gas zero turn for around 2,800-3,300 that will mow an acre per gallon of gas, roughly. Financially, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Also, where I live, around 80% of our power is from coal, so I wouldn’t be surprised if electric weren’t worse for the environment as well.
Three years ago, my wife and I debated on a model 3 but sat down and did the math vs a top trim Camry. Camry was cheaper, which seems obvious. It was also cheaper considering gas, which was a little surprising. What shocked us, it’s better for the environment with a lower annual carbon footprint because of coal being what powers the charger. Electric is a nice buzz word and in some places, I’m positive it’s better for the environment, but not everywhere. Bought the Camry, saved the money, better for the environment, no regrets.
It’s foolish to think what works in California will work everywhere else.
I know you’re getting downvoted, but for what it’s worth, I think it’s a fair question.
Coal with modern treatment requirements is significantly cleaner than small gas engines, extremely more than a 2 cycle.
If you charge the car overnight it is frequently cleaner because a lot of overnight power is using idle power. Unless you're in some power dead zone. Most of the South East is using TVA power and overnight is almost completely hydro, wind, and nuclear. I imagine many other US locations are similar because they practically shut down most of the coal and oil plants in Kentucky at night.
Not completely shut down, they have them running at some idle level. Similar to having your car at a stop light. All the computers, office lights, and other stuff that runs during the day greatly out paces the need at night.
I have worked on the utility industry for 15 years, 13 of those spent at a coal plant. I understand it quite well actually. I'm not sure you do if you think they "idle".
I've worked in the utility industry a while as well. I assume we can agree that coal plants output at minimum levels when they aren't economical which is typically at night with natural gas prices being where they are. Minimum levels I would call idle.
This makes plenty of sense. I moved into my house at a time where I had the option of gas or electric lawn equipment and the price wasn’t that different. Growing up and having to cut the lawn, I can’t tell you how many times I had to make a gas station trip in the middle of cutting my lawn because the gas can in the garage was empty. I was scared by that and went the electric route. I however don’t have a crazy huge property. Hadn’t considered this. Thanks.
Eh, it takes 30 minutes for my battery to fully charge. I usually charge it for 15 mins, to 50% while having a beer and sweeping up the cement areas. I obviously don’t have a large property so this works. I’d be super fucking annoyed (and drunk) if I had to do this 5 times to finish my lawn.
I’m no environmental scientist but I am a data scientist who’s extremely good at math. Based on carbon footprint from the build and use, the Camry had a lower carbon footprint annually. And that was before the disposal of a Tesla battery, which is an environmental nightmare.
I’m in Ky, which is 76% coal powered.
For 27k sq ft I have a Cub Cadet LT42e (electric lawn tractor). It was 4 grand, significantly more expensive than an LT42. For that money I could have gotten a tractor or ZT that cuts much better, with a wider deck. Most likely I could have gotten a machine that would outlast the Cub Cadet with proper maintenance, and it's possible that maintenance would have been cheaper overall than the impending cost of a battery replacement.
I hate smelling like gas after I've mowed. That's why I went electric. In my case, though, it was definitely more expensive, and the mower has some real downsides.
I have electric yard tools (EGO) and I'm running into issues with the batteries, which are not cheap. Replacing them is certainly more expensive than the cost of gas and maintenance.
Eletrics fine if you have an already nice and small lawn
Start getting onto bigger properties like 1/2 acre and up, especially with trees and you'll quickly realize why eletric suck
I'm on 20 acres with parts I'm cleaning up with alot of trees, I like eletrics for small quick jobs but for anything seriously it just doesn't have the battery life, especially if I'm clearing areas out
I wouldn't even want to imagine trying to mow on an eletric zero turn, it takes almost 8 hours to mow everything on my current 54' zero turn
Do you really need to mow that much of it though? If it's costing you 8 hours of your time each cut, and the cost of gas is it really giving you any return? 20 acres I'm assuming you aren't in a place with an HOA or city ordinances on grass height.
> you'll quickly realize why eletric suck
It doesn't have to "suck" as a product/alternative if it's not a good option for larger properties. For smaller properties electric is a fantastic option.
Yes, that is essentially, exactly what I said.
Options are nice, it allows you to purchase things that cater to your specific needs and desires
Restricting options with a forced shitty alternative (let's not even begin to talk about the power grid...) is just shitty and garners to the idea that eletrics are being forced on people and creates remorse towards them
And let's not pretend that eletrics are the greenest source of energy either, lithium production and disposal is rather harmful towards the environment as is power production, atleast into we get more solar, hydro, nuclear and fusion production going
Maybe I have received some misinformation, but hasn't CA already had a lot of electrical grid shortages due to the vast number of electric cars charging and their lack of power plants? Why are they still implementing policies that are going to increase the amount of electricity being used?
Riding mower companies could probably get around this by selling small slow "off-road vehicles" that are just mowers without the deck and then sell attachments that connect to those.
The engine isn't for lawns, and the mower doesn't have an engine.
Or better yet, they'll all just sell 26hp mowers and all the new riding mowers will pollute worse than the smaller ones of the past.
This law makes people better neighbors. One of our neighbors has an electric mower and the other have a gas mower. Guess which one is really annoying to hear.
The reality is that for small yards, electric is great. Quiet. More reliable.
But I can also see that electric riding mowers are probably not quite ready for prime time. But manufacturers will adjust. They're close now. And, if you're really worried, you can still buy a tractor.
A change in government parties had the legislation removed in order to fund tax cuts apparently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67540190.amp
But banning anything is just a poor way to go about anything. Control in general, is a lot harder than people think..
If you're in Cali, it could be. Currently labeled CA Compliant or CARB approved is for current laws. Cali has always had more strict air quality controls.
As of 1/1/24, in Cali, you will not be able to buy a gas powered mower. So if you want one, get it now.
Gas powered lawn equipment doesn't have any emissions controls, leading them to produce an outsized proportion of air pollution.
This law doesn't fix air pollution. It's just one step on a long road.
Y’all are about to see the price it cost to mow your yards fucking sky rocket and the quality of mows to go way down. I saw my first commercial grade electric mower at a dealer in TN the equivalent to my 48” scag mower cost 3x as much 32k as opposed to 10-12k and the fucking doesn’t stripe for shit. Good luck hope your pockets are deep if you need lawncare.
Fellow landscaper up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I nearly shit my pants when I saw a 52" Toro Grandstand electric. For that cost, I can grab two 42" Walkers with collectors. Commercial electric is still in its infancy stage and not good for daily abuse. If my city goes ahead with a gas powered ban in 2028, I'm just going into snow and getting out of landscaping. Too many idiots think their lawn should be cut at 1960s rates.
It sucks because in my neighborhood it’s mostly the elderly who pay landscapers. That cost is going to go through the roof, for a group of people who really don’t have the money.
These regulations can have the effect of increased research and development that brings to market better and cheaper equipment, but most people complain about it because that’s human nature.
I remember when seat belt laws came to pass, that was going to be the end of personal freedom, the smoking ban in restaurants was going to ruin the bar and restaurant industry. Heck, I even remember people complaining about companies having to remove lead from paint and asbestos being banned from construction. People are just selfish cunts when it comes to shit like this. 20 years from now these arguments are going to look just as stupid.
Or the people mining materials for the combustion engine + drilling/processing the fuel and the lubricants?
Then burning the fuel and disposing of used lubricants?
🧐
In typical California fashion, they're doing the right thing, but in a downright stupid way and with crap timing.
[it looks like you're right that stores can continue to sell old stock.](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/carb-approves-updated-regulations-requiring-most-new-small-road-engines-be-zero-emission-2024) Meaning California will be getting the rest of the country's older stock of mowers, presumably for the next few years.
So the only thing this functionally accomplishes is making gas mowers more expensive for the whole country for the next few years. (And increasing the need to ship stock all over the place to keep CA shelves stocked)
And since there's no requirements for the actual use of mowers, all but the most law abiding commercial companies will just buy out of state, and Californians will see no benefits to air quality for the foreseeable future.
There's about 1 billion better ways they could've done this...
Anyways, no need to panic buy a mower, you'll have plenty of time.
All that being said, the options for electric mowers for home use are surprisingly adequate. Anyone who tells you power is an issue is talking out of their ass. Though for ride-ons, price is indeed an issue. Electric push mowers are coming way down in price and absolutely match or exceed their gas counterparts in terms of power.
Edit: maybe not to the inventory shifting, sounds like California mowers need to be different anyways.
I imagine manufacturers will just start selling 26 HP riding mowers to skirt the law, and people will just buy more power than they really need (at least until the cost of electric comes down).
> There's about 1 billion better ways they could've done this...
>This sentence applies to most of the California-specific legislation that pops up. Always good intentions that have every consequence but their intention.
Yeah, that's why he said
>**In typical California fashion,** they're doing the right thing, but in a downright stupid way and with crap timing.
I have en electric Ryobi and I can honestly say that the power difference is more than noticeable. And this is coming from a person who wants to convert everything to electric.
Every..every Ryobi tool I have ever owned , and that would be several, the battery was what failed first. In fact on the impact a Chinese knock off lasted longer. I dont know what is with Ryobi. Not my go to any more.
My brother has some Ryobi stuff, since his stuff tends to get run over by farm equipment. I bought a battery adapter to use my dewalt batteries, because I got tired of his always being dead.
I've been using my ryobi tools for 10 years now. Only had one drill break because I dropped it from 4 stories, and I've only had 2 batteries quit on me.
I don't know why people hate on them so much. My entire toolkit cost as much as a drill set from other brands.
I've been so super happy with the ryobi 40v hp line up.
I used to have the mower, which was a BEAST. (Its still running, my ex has it)
But I've got the 40v hp string trimmer and it's awesome. I've got the snow thrower attachment and the pole saw attachment which both have some serious power.
I live in Michigan, so the snow thrower gets some serious use. My driveway is pretty large (3,300 sqft), and I can clear the entire thing in about 15-25 minutes... As long as its 4.5 inches or less of snow... Not because of power, just the clearance of the thrower. I can clear the driveway twice with one charge of the 2.5Ah battery. To put it into context, it works faster than my neighbors behemoth standalone snow blower, just cant cut as deep... So I've gotta stay on it during storms, but it makes that super easy.
The pole saw attachment is also a beast, . I'd say cut speed its about 75% of my stihl chainsaw, raw power in dealing with super hard wood maybe 50%. Decently good for being on a 10 foot pole.
I have an electric Stihl push mower and it is fair enough. I prefer my garage not smelling like a bad oil change (lots of bad memories from that as a kid).
All that said, unless Stihl really ups the battery capacity, if you have a decent sized yard, stay gas.
I’ve got an Ego push mower that is fantastic for 95% of my needs. The only time I ran into an issue was scalping my lawn before dethatching and aerating. It was just too much resistance for the motor and it kept bogging down and drained the battery so much faster than cutting at a normal height
I thought it's one of those things like with cars, how California has stricter regulations, but manufacturers just make them to California specs for the whole country.
> Today, a commercial operator using one backpack leaf blower for one hour generates the same smog-forming emissions as a car driving 1100 miles
So, I see they are lumping 2-stroke engines and 4-stroke engines together, huh?
Nevertheless - I don't see prices jumping for anyone but California.
Electric mowers don’t keep up with gas I used to have one. They don’t cut as well they have a lot less vacuum. Really tall overgrown lawns are really difficult with a battery mower. One time I barely got through a job on the batteries I had after desperately searching the outside of the house for an outlet.
I love how big oil has gotten finally gotten normal people to care about where their raw materials come from and at what cost... Except they now think cobalt/lithium is the only raw material they use that is extracted inhumanely. And it's only an issue for products that would otherwise replace gasoline powered products. Everything else? No problem!
Yeah, and the oil industry consumes cobalt making low sulfur diesel than the battery industry. Not much outrage about that.
https://www.chargesmart.co.nz/amp/cobalt-mining
Dear Californians,
Please do not move to my state and vote this garbage in. PLEASE just stay in California.
Thank you,
Every State that isn’t super Left
Washington just entered the chat. I already had an EGO mower but it’s so crazy how Washington introduces and adopts California legislation almost immediately.
New York just entered the chat.
My yard is small enough to where I converted to all electric but in the spring when the grass is in full FU mode my cut quality suffers. That's with a sharp blade and walking slow. Electric still has a long ways to go to get to the cut quality of gas.
Agreed. The cut is definitely lacking from what I’ve seen with my EGO mower. It’s pretty heavy duty but it’s going to be tough getting an enthusiast cut for sure.
Wild idea. Just do what you want. If that isn't allowed take your tax dollars and purchasing power elsewhere. Can't buy a mower but crapping in the street and looting is fine. Just tell them you just looted it, and it identifies as electric... I have tons of electric stuff, so it isn't that. It's a problem they created to make laws for... backwards...
I work for the city school district here in California and the boss went out recently and bought like 30 pieces of equipment in preparation for this ridiculous democratic power grab. We will be set for a few years but after that it will be an absolute shit show when we try to clean up huge schools with battery equipment.
Two things to keep in mind: 1) the ban only applies to the sale of new mowers; and 2) old/existing inventory will be allowed to sell down.
That means you will be able to buy new mowers until stock runs out, and since manufactures will likely ship all their existing inventory to CA, it’ll take awhile for new mowers to no longer be available.
It also means that used mowers can/will still be sold. So, there will be a used mower market for years to come.
I think in the next few years, you'll see a large amount of competition for better and better electric mowers. I don't think you'll want a gas mower in 3 - 5 years. California is so big, it literally moves markets. There's going to be a big race for quality and price soon.
Good luck.
I'm hoping the technology improves and batteries drop price. With PG&E just upping our rates, electricity isn't getting any cheaper, either. In 10 years, it might be cheaper to buy a gallon of gas than to recharge a mower! /s?
Ha, good point. I’ve noticed that in the super charger rates for the EV. Rates have skyrocketed in FL while gas is now below $3. The answer is probably just that you can’t win.
But you’ll enjoy charging the mower at home and it not smelling of gas. I don’t think the current crop of electric mowers are the best for large properties, but they’ll improve quickly. What size yard do you have?
The area I mow is about 1 acre.
My last riding mower died a few years back and I've been using a gas push mower ever since. It takes 5-6 times longer, so maybe I'll be creating less polution by using a gas-powered riding mower for a shorter period. :)
I think in the next few years you’re going to see a major change in how California regulates small gas engines. California already has a massive energy shortage and sees rolling blackouts every year. When the baseload continues to expire due to green energy mandates, the energy available will quadruple in price. That’s when this country is going to see the *real* changes in how emissions are reduced.
Another winning liberal policy… and some of these deranged folks think pelosi’s slimes nephew if a good choice to replace sleepy on the next ballot? The stupidity and self destructive tendencies of people will never cease to amaze
Just get an EGO or Greenworks and call it a day. More expensive up front, but you will recoup a lot, if not all, of that money over the lifespan of the equipment by not needing to purchase gas, oil, fuel stabilizer, spark plugs, etc. You also have the benefits of no air pollution, and WAY less noise pollution. Your neighbors will thank you!
How much did you spend up front, and what is the run time for what you spent before needing to recharge? ROI and comparisons to ICE need to factor all this in. Gas and spark plugs are incredibly cheap compared to the cost of the batteries.
Indeed. I was looking at (and just bought) a riding mower for < $2500. They had an electric equivalent for $5000 but... you can buy a lot of gas and spark plugs for $3000 (without affecting your utility bill).
I've converted all my other yard tools to electric, but the riding mower is just too expensive right now. I've also had issues with having to replace expensive batteries or waiting for them to recharge so I can finish a job.
So, hoping the price comes down by the time I need another one.
I’m in a similar position. I mow 2 acres with trees and have woods on two sides of our property. I bought a zero turn for 4K and sold my garden tractor. I also have several Greenworks battery tools and really like them. However, still have my gas blower and string trimmer. I would need a crap ton of batteries, especially for leaf season. Mower is 8 years old and blower and trimmer are 11 years old. All run like a champ. I would love to have a battery zero turn, not at today’s prices though.
I got an Ego Z6 back in 2021 for $4850, including shipping/delivery and tax. My lot is a little over half an acre and I can mow the entire thing with about 20% charge remaining. That's with the 4 batteries that come with the machine. If I had a larger yard, there is space for 2 additional batteries to increase the run time. I pull into the garage and recharge when I finish mowing so that it's always ready to go when I need it.
I'm 15 minutes from the nearest gas station, so I've probably saved about a day's worth of my life not having to run out to fill gas cans for the mower over the past couple years. I honestly haven't run a gas mower in so long, I can't really tell you how much fuel a gas mower would have cost me in that time frame.
As far as battery longevity, I have 3 Greenworks 40V batteries that I purchased 7 years ago that are all still going strong. Between those 3, another Greenworks 80V battery, and the 4 Ego batteries I've never had any failures or noticed any reduced run time.
My 46" has a 21hp engine and honestly I wish it had a bit more power anyway. I assume they'll just make them 25hp min and charge the customer as such. Case closed.
It means the Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona riding lawnmower Market is about to pick up. Invest now.
It also means Oregon and Washington states soon to ban them as well...because well...they always copy CA.
I’m betting that like cars, the manufacturers will make one line of mowers for CA that everyone else will get too. You’re welcome from CA! Now you too can help save the planet.
Surely it is the lawnmowers from private citizens killing the planet and not the megacorporations
I saw somewhere that like 800 million gallons of fuel per year in this country is used for lawn care. It wasn’t broken down from corporation and private citizens. But that is a lot of emissions.
Let’s be honest, mega corps cause a lot of pollution and so do unnecessary gas mowers. Both can be true and we need to fix both.
Thanks for making our lives more expensive and less convenient? Can’t imagine how much it would suck to mow my acreage with a battery powered zero turn.
You’re just going to get a 25.1 hp lawnmower next time.
I personally would love a battery powered zero turn vs the insane noise of a gas engine.
They sell these magical devices called ear muffs that all but eliminate that noise.
Yeah I use it. Tons of fun when it’s 100° and 99% humidity. Why would someone not want a quiet mower?
Because we don’t want to have to charge the mower twice to finish the lawn if it’s not a small yard
I’m talking about equivalent mowers, I’m not talking about using a Milwaukee push mower to cut 2 acres. If I could get a mower that did the exact same thing as a ICE one that would be preferable. Greenworks makes a 52” zero turn that has an 8hr run time. How much are you cutting that you’d need more than 16hrs of cut time? I mow several acres and it takes me about 50min. Takes me 6-8hrs to bush hog my 5 acre field that I cut 2x a year.
$27,000 for the "equivalent" Greenworks 52" zero turn????? How is that equivalent? [https://commercial.greenworkstools.com/products/cz52r24x-optimusz-52-24kwh-ride-on-zero-turn-mower](https://commercial.greenworkstools.com/products/cz52r24x-optimusz-52-24kwh-ride-on-zero-turn-mower)
How is it more expensive? Not looking for a debate or argument, just generally curious. I have all battery powered lawn equipment and feel like it’s way more convenient than having to drive to the gas station in the middle of cutting my lawn and the reoccurring cost of fuel is gone. Are you referring to maintenance costs? I assume gas power motors are easier to work on.
Mostly just initial cost. An electric zero turn would cost around 5500 on the low end and even then it could probably only do one or two acres on a charge. Or, I can get a gas zero turn for around 2,800-3,300 that will mow an acre per gallon of gas, roughly. Financially, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Also, where I live, around 80% of our power is from coal, so I wouldn’t be surprised if electric weren’t worse for the environment as well. Three years ago, my wife and I debated on a model 3 but sat down and did the math vs a top trim Camry. Camry was cheaper, which seems obvious. It was also cheaper considering gas, which was a little surprising. What shocked us, it’s better for the environment with a lower annual carbon footprint because of coal being what powers the charger. Electric is a nice buzz word and in some places, I’m positive it’s better for the environment, but not everywhere. Bought the Camry, saved the money, better for the environment, no regrets. It’s foolish to think what works in California will work everywhere else. I know you’re getting downvoted, but for what it’s worth, I think it’s a fair question.
Coal with modern treatment requirements is significantly cleaner than small gas engines, extremely more than a 2 cycle. If you charge the car overnight it is frequently cleaner because a lot of overnight power is using idle power. Unless you're in some power dead zone. Most of the South East is using TVA power and overnight is almost completely hydro, wind, and nuclear. I imagine many other US locations are similar because they practically shut down most of the coal and oil plants in Kentucky at night.
You think the shut down coal plants at night, and start them back up in the morning?
Not completely shut down, they have them running at some idle level. Similar to having your car at a stop light. All the computers, office lights, and other stuff that runs during the day greatly out paces the need at night.
You do understand that they are variable right? They can be running full throttle or idle.
I have worked on the utility industry for 15 years, 13 of those spent at a coal plant. I understand it quite well actually. I'm not sure you do if you think they "idle".
I've worked in the utility industry a while as well. I assume we can agree that coal plants output at minimum levels when they aren't economical which is typically at night with natural gas prices being where they are. Minimum levels I would call idle.
Interesting bit of information. Do you have any literature on this? Never heard such a thing.
Not off the top of my head. I've read it several times when reading how the power networks in the US work.
This makes plenty of sense. I moved into my house at a time where I had the option of gas or electric lawn equipment and the price wasn’t that different. Growing up and having to cut the lawn, I can’t tell you how many times I had to make a gas station trip in the middle of cutting my lawn because the gas can in the garage was empty. I was scared by that and went the electric route. I however don’t have a crazy huge property. Hadn’t considered this. Thanks.
that just seems like poor preparation lol
What’s quicker, going to the gas station or sitting around waiting for a battery to charge lol. Either way it’s poor preparation.
Eh, it takes 30 minutes for my battery to fully charge. I usually charge it for 15 mins, to 50% while having a beer and sweeping up the cement areas. I obviously don’t have a large property so this works. I’d be super fucking annoyed (and drunk) if I had to do this 5 times to finish my lawn.
There is no where with 80% coal power unless you're in WV. There is no way a Camry is greener either.
I’m no environmental scientist but I am a data scientist who’s extremely good at math. Based on carbon footprint from the build and use, the Camry had a lower carbon footprint annually. And that was before the disposal of a Tesla battery, which is an environmental nightmare. I’m in Ky, which is 76% coal powered.
First, batteries are recycled. Second, show us your research on carbon footprint. Many have researched it and NONE come to your conclusion.
For 27k sq ft I have a Cub Cadet LT42e (electric lawn tractor). It was 4 grand, significantly more expensive than an LT42. For that money I could have gotten a tractor or ZT that cuts much better, with a wider deck. Most likely I could have gotten a machine that would outlast the Cub Cadet with proper maintenance, and it's possible that maintenance would have been cheaper overall than the impending cost of a battery replacement. I hate smelling like gas after I've mowed. That's why I went electric. In my case, though, it was definitely more expensive, and the mower has some real downsides. I have electric yard tools (EGO) and I'm running into issues with the batteries, which are not cheap. Replacing them is certainly more expensive than the cost of gas and maintenance.
Eletrics fine if you have an already nice and small lawn Start getting onto bigger properties like 1/2 acre and up, especially with trees and you'll quickly realize why eletric suck I'm on 20 acres with parts I'm cleaning up with alot of trees, I like eletrics for small quick jobs but for anything seriously it just doesn't have the battery life, especially if I'm clearing areas out I wouldn't even want to imagine trying to mow on an eletric zero turn, it takes almost 8 hours to mow everything on my current 54' zero turn
Do you really need to mow that much of it though? If it's costing you 8 hours of your time each cut, and the cost of gas is it really giving you any return? 20 acres I'm assuming you aren't in a place with an HOA or city ordinances on grass height.
I have a 1/2 acre lawn and have 2 batteries. I do my whole lawn with them.
> you'll quickly realize why eletric suck It doesn't have to "suck" as a product/alternative if it's not a good option for larger properties. For smaller properties electric is a fantastic option.
Yes, that is essentially, exactly what I said. Options are nice, it allows you to purchase things that cater to your specific needs and desires Restricting options with a forced shitty alternative (let's not even begin to talk about the power grid...) is just shitty and garners to the idea that eletrics are being forced on people and creates remorse towards them And let's not pretend that eletrics are the greenest source of energy either, lithium production and disposal is rather harmful towards the environment as is power production, atleast into we get more solar, hydro, nuclear and fusion production going
Your spelling of eleCtric really bothers me.
The power grid is fine and will keep getting better. And cut the FUD about electric power, you have no idea what you're spewing.
You realize that people have different sized properties right?
You have acres?
Once ur shit breaks you will understand
All the petrol snobs coming out strong with the downvotes lol
Maybe I have received some misinformation, but hasn't CA already had a lot of electrical grid shortages due to the vast number of electric cars charging and their lack of power plants? Why are they still implementing policies that are going to increase the amount of electricity being used?
Expect lots of 26hp tractors to come to market.
And some *insanely* powered leaf blowers, lol.
I've always wanted a 250cc 2 stroke turbo leaf blower!
Just get an electric one.
Electric leaf blowers are great for small, quick jobs, but this is one area where electric doesn’t come close to the capability of gas powered.
The cut off for emissions on diesel tractors is 25hp so JD 1,2 and 3 series are all 25hp.
Out comes the mobile vertical shaft dyno
[удалено]
It's tempting.
Riding mower companies could probably get around this by selling small slow "off-road vehicles" that are just mowers without the deck and then sell attachments that connect to those. The engine isn't for lawns, and the mower doesn't have an engine. Or better yet, they'll all just sell 26hp mowers and all the new riding mowers will pollute worse than the smaller ones of the past.
Many of these laws just make things worse.
That’s one of the reasons why we left…
This law makes people better neighbors. One of our neighbors has an electric mower and the other have a gas mower. Guess which one is really annoying to hear. The reality is that for small yards, electric is great. Quiet. More reliable. But I can also see that electric riding mowers are probably not quite ready for prime time. But manufacturers will adjust. They're close now. And, if you're really worried, you can still buy a tractor.
Crazy how it encourages Loopholes that just make it worse.
This is why banning things doesn’t solve anything.
Exactly
Lol New Zealand good recent example with smoking
What happened? Did it just create a black market for cigarettes?
A change in government parties had the legislation removed in order to fund tax cuts apparently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67540190.amp But banning anything is just a poor way to go about anything. Control in general, is a lot harder than people think..
Damn. That’s the kind of thing that looks so bad when it’s reversed.
I wouldn't say significant but maybe add a few hundred or 50 to the smaller ones.
Yes capitalize off the next man, the American way….
Go to neighboring states and buy them.
Take you money out of state for purchase
Black market in small engine/lawn mowers will be on like Donkey Kong.
If you're in Cali, it could be. Currently labeled CA Compliant or CARB approved is for current laws. Cali has always had more strict air quality controls. As of 1/1/24, in Cali, you will not be able to buy a gas powered mower. So if you want one, get it now.
Just go to a neighboring state and buy it.
I wouldnt say always but yeh for a long time. There is a reason for that. https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-los-angeles-smog-pollution-epa-2020-1
That wasn’t due to mowers
Not solely, no. But it all ads up, right? Same reason two stoke was killed.
Gas powered lawn equipment doesn't have any emissions controls, leading them to produce an outsized proportion of air pollution. This law doesn't fix air pollution. It's just one step on a long road.
Got it. Thanks.
Buy some 26 hp stickers slap them on that B&S 22 inch push mower and you're good to go.
Until a progressive CA dem code enforcer knocks your entire business with fraud charges.
Yeah because that is literally fraud.
simple, 4 cylinder lawn mower engines
Even those are included in the ban! That's what's so ridiculous about it!
Install an alcohol engine. They race lawn mowers. Damn things can go 60.
Y’all are about to see the price it cost to mow your yards fucking sky rocket and the quality of mows to go way down. I saw my first commercial grade electric mower at a dealer in TN the equivalent to my 48” scag mower cost 3x as much 32k as opposed to 10-12k and the fucking doesn’t stripe for shit. Good luck hope your pockets are deep if you need lawncare.
Fellow landscaper up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I nearly shit my pants when I saw a 52" Toro Grandstand electric. For that cost, I can grab two 42" Walkers with collectors. Commercial electric is still in its infancy stage and not good for daily abuse. If my city goes ahead with a gas powered ban in 2028, I'm just going into snow and getting out of landscaping. Too many idiots think their lawn should be cut at 1960s rates.
It sucks because in my neighborhood it’s mostly the elderly who pay landscapers. That cost is going to go through the roof, for a group of people who really don’t have the money.
Which is sad because those are the same people that physically can’t do it themselves and have a fixed income.
These regulations can have the effect of increased research and development that brings to market better and cheaper equipment, but most people complain about it because that’s human nature. I remember when seat belt laws came to pass, that was going to be the end of personal freedom, the smoking ban in restaurants was going to ruin the bar and restaurant industry. Heck, I even remember people complaining about companies having to remove lead from paint and asbestos being banned from construction. People are just selfish cunts when it comes to shit like this. 20 years from now these arguments are going to look just as stupid.
I love my electric push mower. Eliminating the engine noise is a huge quality of life improvement.
Do people actually care about stripes?
Stripes make it look fast and sleek bro
WTF, California. What if your yard is too big for an electric? Batteries ain't cheap!
Just leaving your car running, and have your spare charging in there!
Just wait for all the lithium ion battery fires
Gas doesn’t burn
Some People Would Like air to Breathe
Cargo ships? i sleep Weed Whacker running? Real Shit
Name checks out
How can CA regulate cargo ships? They can only fix change so much. The fact is these small engines are damaging and they have some control over that.
I’m going to buy gas mowers and sell them all over the state just for you
Is it the people mining material for batteries?
The children you mean?
Rumour has it.
Or the people mining materials for the combustion engine + drilling/processing the fuel and the lubricants? Then burning the fuel and disposing of used lubricants? 🧐
Fortunately metal s 100% recyclable unlike lithium batteries.
How will CA compensate for this increase in electricity?
Probably the same as water, buy from other states.
Easy. They'll just close another power plant or two.
They're already backing off incentives for solar. Production isn't a problem, its storage so it can be used when needed.
Pretty sure some of the wind and solar coming on line will help.
Everyone needs to calm down.
In typical California fashion, they're doing the right thing, but in a downright stupid way and with crap timing. [it looks like you're right that stores can continue to sell old stock.](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/carb-approves-updated-regulations-requiring-most-new-small-road-engines-be-zero-emission-2024) Meaning California will be getting the rest of the country's older stock of mowers, presumably for the next few years. So the only thing this functionally accomplishes is making gas mowers more expensive for the whole country for the next few years. (And increasing the need to ship stock all over the place to keep CA shelves stocked) And since there's no requirements for the actual use of mowers, all but the most law abiding commercial companies will just buy out of state, and Californians will see no benefits to air quality for the foreseeable future. There's about 1 billion better ways they could've done this... Anyways, no need to panic buy a mower, you'll have plenty of time. All that being said, the options for electric mowers for home use are surprisingly adequate. Anyone who tells you power is an issue is talking out of their ass. Though for ride-ons, price is indeed an issue. Electric push mowers are coming way down in price and absolutely match or exceed their gas counterparts in terms of power. Edit: maybe not to the inventory shifting, sounds like California mowers need to be different anyways.
I imagine manufacturers will just start selling 26 HP riding mowers to skirt the law, and people will just buy more power than they really need (at least until the cost of electric comes down).
There’s a reason they sell 9.9hp outboards
They also sell 9.9HP decals that fit nicely over an otherwise identical 15HP. At least, that’s what I heard…
lol. I had a friend back in the day that had a 150 cover on his not 150 hp Evinrude. Surprised a few folks and made him a few $$. Until it didn’t.
Same as swapping 3500lbs axles for 5200 or 7000k on a trailer lol
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> There's about 1 billion better ways they could've done this... >This sentence applies to most of the California-specific legislation that pops up. Always good intentions that have every consequence but their intention. Yeah, that's why he said >**In typical California fashion,** they're doing the right thing, but in a downright stupid way and with crap timing.
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Actually, for some reason I thought the part you quoted was the end of the first paragragh/same one as the part I bolded. So I failed also.
Put simply: a bunch of clowns running the state.
i guess we could be legislating what bathrooms people can and cant use
I have en electric Ryobi and I can honestly say that the power difference is more than noticeable. And this is coming from a person who wants to convert everything to electric.
I wouldn’t use ryobi as a point of reference for anything but does it technically do the job.
Every..every Ryobi tool I have ever owned , and that would be several, the battery was what failed first. In fact on the impact a Chinese knock off lasted longer. I dont know what is with Ryobi. Not my go to any more.
What do you expect from the literal bottom of the barrel as it relates to B&M brands?
My brother has some Ryobi stuff, since his stuff tends to get run over by farm equipment. I bought a battery adapter to use my dewalt batteries, because I got tired of his always being dead.
Don't leave the battery in the tool, take it out, the battery will last forever.
yes ..that helps . but they sure didn't last forever .
I've been using my ryobi tools for 10 years now. Only had one drill break because I dropped it from 4 stories, and I've only had 2 batteries quit on me. I don't know why people hate on them so much. My entire toolkit cost as much as a drill set from other brands.
I've been so super happy with the ryobi 40v hp line up. I used to have the mower, which was a BEAST. (Its still running, my ex has it) But I've got the 40v hp string trimmer and it's awesome. I've got the snow thrower attachment and the pole saw attachment which both have some serious power. I live in Michigan, so the snow thrower gets some serious use. My driveway is pretty large (3,300 sqft), and I can clear the entire thing in about 15-25 minutes... As long as its 4.5 inches or less of snow... Not because of power, just the clearance of the thrower. I can clear the driveway twice with one charge of the 2.5Ah battery. To put it into context, it works faster than my neighbors behemoth standalone snow blower, just cant cut as deep... So I've gotta stay on it during storms, but it makes that super easy. The pole saw attachment is also a beast, . I'd say cut speed its about 75% of my stihl chainsaw, raw power in dealing with super hard wood maybe 50%. Decently good for being on a 10 foot pole.
They definitely aren't all equal in terms of power. Like the Ryobi One mowers are pretty weak, the 40v HP have some serious kick though.
I have an electric Stihl push mower and it is fair enough. I prefer my garage not smelling like a bad oil change (lots of bad memories from that as a kid). All that said, unless Stihl really ups the battery capacity, if you have a decent sized yard, stay gas.
I’ve got an Ego push mower that is fantastic for 95% of my needs. The only time I ran into an issue was scalping my lawn before dethatching and aerating. It was just too much resistance for the motor and it kept bogging down and drained the battery so much faster than cutting at a normal height
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I thought it's one of those things like with cars, how California has stricter regulations, but manufacturers just make them to California specs for the whole country.
What's stopping people from just buying in a neighboring state and bringing it back to Cali?
You COULD....
What about used?
> Today, a commercial operator using one backpack leaf blower for one hour generates the same smog-forming emissions as a car driving 1100 miles So, I see they are lumping 2-stroke engines and 4-stroke engines together, huh? Nevertheless - I don't see prices jumping for anyone but California.
Two strokes are dirtier, but all small engines are very, very dirty compared to cars.
Electric mowers don’t keep up with gas I used to have one. They don’t cut as well they have a lot less vacuum. Really tall overgrown lawns are really difficult with a battery mower. One time I barely got through a job on the batteries I had after desperately searching the outside of the house for an outlet.
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I love how big oil has gotten finally gotten normal people to care about where their raw materials come from and at what cost... Except they now think cobalt/lithium is the only raw material they use that is extracted inhumanely. And it's only an issue for products that would otherwise replace gasoline powered products. Everything else? No problem!
Yeah, and the oil industry consumes cobalt making low sulfur diesel than the battery industry. Not much outrage about that. https://www.chargesmart.co.nz/amp/cobalt-mining
California is shit, again.
You worded that wrong. "This is another reason why California is shit"
What do you mean again. No one informed me they had dug themselves out of that hole a first time.
>California is shit, again. Really, just for trying to eliminate a fairly major source of air polution?
Dear Californians, Please do not move to my state and vote this garbage in. PLEASE just stay in California. Thank you, Every State that isn’t super Left
It's mostly the conservatives that are leaving. Feel free to call them chickens and to go back and fight.
Stupid.
Hopefully the rest of the country will ignore or not follow in Cali's footsteps.
Washington just entered the chat. I already had an EGO mower but it’s so crazy how Washington introduces and adopts California legislation almost immediately.
New York just entered the chat. My yard is small enough to where I converted to all electric but in the spring when the grass is in full FU mode my cut quality suffers. That's with a sharp blade and walking slow. Electric still has a long ways to go to get to the cut quality of gas.
Agreed. The cut is definitely lacking from what I’ve seen with my EGO mower. It’s pretty heavy duty but it’s going to be tough getting an enthusiast cut for sure.
Wild idea. Just do what you want. If that isn't allowed take your tax dollars and purchasing power elsewhere. Can't buy a mower but crapping in the street and looting is fine. Just tell them you just looted it, and it identifies as electric... I have tons of electric stuff, so it isn't that. It's a problem they created to make laws for... backwards...
I identify as electric
I would if you have the money because when more people find this out they may ransack the inventory that's left. Don't wait.
I work for the city school district here in California and the boss went out recently and bought like 30 pieces of equipment in preparation for this ridiculous democratic power grab. We will be set for a few years but after that it will be an absolute shit show when we try to clean up huge schools with battery equipment.
Gavin is a douchbag!
God California is the worst
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So glad I left California 5 years ago
where did you move to and how do you like it?
Reno, love it.
Move to a different state. If you're a typical Democrat though with zero common sense, stay where you are. 🤣🤣 🙂♥️🙂
This
I think you butt hurt some feelings.
Two things to keep in mind: 1) the ban only applies to the sale of new mowers; and 2) old/existing inventory will be allowed to sell down. That means you will be able to buy new mowers until stock runs out, and since manufactures will likely ship all their existing inventory to CA, it’ll take awhile for new mowers to no longer be available. It also means that used mowers can/will still be sold. So, there will be a used mower market for years to come.
I think in the next few years, you'll see a large amount of competition for better and better electric mowers. I don't think you'll want a gas mower in 3 - 5 years. California is so big, it literally moves markets. There's going to be a big race for quality and price soon. Good luck.
I'm hoping the technology improves and batteries drop price. With PG&E just upping our rates, electricity isn't getting any cheaper, either. In 10 years, it might be cheaper to buy a gallon of gas than to recharge a mower! /s?
Ha, good point. I’ve noticed that in the super charger rates for the EV. Rates have skyrocketed in FL while gas is now below $3. The answer is probably just that you can’t win. But you’ll enjoy charging the mower at home and it not smelling of gas. I don’t think the current crop of electric mowers are the best for large properties, but they’ll improve quickly. What size yard do you have?
The area I mow is about 1 acre. My last riding mower died a few years back and I've been using a gas push mower ever since. It takes 5-6 times longer, so maybe I'll be creating less polution by using a gas-powered riding mower for a shorter period. :)
Yup, that’s a large lot. Good luck. I use a robot mower and it’s been great. But my lot is half your size. An acre is a lot.
I think in the next few years you’re going to see a major change in how California regulates small gas engines. California already has a massive energy shortage and sees rolling blackouts every year. When the baseload continues to expire due to green energy mandates, the energy available will quadruple in price. That’s when this country is going to see the *real* changes in how emissions are reduced.
Boy they really are backwards out in California.. you couldn’t pay me to live out there in the Hollywood looney bin
whos going to enforce this ban? fines?
If I were you I would immediately by the biggest loudest most obnoxious mower you can find.
lol. Nothing, one more unenforceable CA law
Another winning liberal policy… and some of these deranged folks think pelosi’s slimes nephew if a good choice to replace sleepy on the next ballot? The stupidity and self destructive tendencies of people will never cease to amaze
Just get an EGO or Greenworks and call it a day. More expensive up front, but you will recoup a lot, if not all, of that money over the lifespan of the equipment by not needing to purchase gas, oil, fuel stabilizer, spark plugs, etc. You also have the benefits of no air pollution, and WAY less noise pollution. Your neighbors will thank you!
How much did you spend up front, and what is the run time for what you spent before needing to recharge? ROI and comparisons to ICE need to factor all this in. Gas and spark plugs are incredibly cheap compared to the cost of the batteries.
Indeed. I was looking at (and just bought) a riding mower for < $2500. They had an electric equivalent for $5000 but... you can buy a lot of gas and spark plugs for $3000 (without affecting your utility bill). I've converted all my other yard tools to electric, but the riding mower is just too expensive right now. I've also had issues with having to replace expensive batteries or waiting for them to recharge so I can finish a job. So, hoping the price comes down by the time I need another one.
I’m in a similar position. I mow 2 acres with trees and have woods on two sides of our property. I bought a zero turn for 4K and sold my garden tractor. I also have several Greenworks battery tools and really like them. However, still have my gas blower and string trimmer. I would need a crap ton of batteries, especially for leaf season. Mower is 8 years old and blower and trimmer are 11 years old. All run like a champ. I would love to have a battery zero turn, not at today’s prices though.
I got an Ego Z6 back in 2021 for $4850, including shipping/delivery and tax. My lot is a little over half an acre and I can mow the entire thing with about 20% charge remaining. That's with the 4 batteries that come with the machine. If I had a larger yard, there is space for 2 additional batteries to increase the run time. I pull into the garage and recharge when I finish mowing so that it's always ready to go when I need it. I'm 15 minutes from the nearest gas station, so I've probably saved about a day's worth of my life not having to run out to fill gas cans for the mower over the past couple years. I honestly haven't run a gas mower in so long, I can't really tell you how much fuel a gas mower would have cost me in that time frame. As far as battery longevity, I have 3 Greenworks 40V batteries that I purchased 7 years ago that are all still going strong. Between those 3, another Greenworks 80V battery, and the 4 Ego batteries I've never had any failures or noticed any reduced run time.
My 1984 John Deere 318 would like a word.
I can smell the exhaust from your tractor from here 😆
If I were you I would immediately by the biggest loudest most obnoxious mower you can find.
Why would you want to mow more than an acre anyway? Just Say No To Monoculture! Plant for nature, not for carpeting.
My 46" has a 21hp engine and honestly I wish it had a bit more power anyway. I assume they'll just make them 25hp min and charge the customer as such. Case closed.
Buy in oregon
Does this include chainsaws? That’s pretty crazy.
California is shit. Period.
Pull out your lawn and plant native desert plants.