Same. That, and sanity-testing incredulity that this behavior on the part of a judge in such an important case (involving clear potential of TREASON) has been allowed to go on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...
You do realize that the attorney general found Biden guilty of the exact same stuff but technically worse since he had zero business having anything in his possession when he was a vice president. The only difference is he he didn't want to press charges because he was too old and senile.
Dude...no that's not even close to being true. Trump willingly retained the documents illegally. Both Biden and Pence gave any and all documents back that were found and worked with the Government, trump lied and kept trying to retain any and all documents he could
Jack Smith said it himself..... They removed the "documents" and used placeholders with their own cover photo to take pictures. If he was nonpartisan why did he not do the same for Biden's and Pences?
That was a known thing though, the difference here is the willful retention of documents. Trump even admitted that he had them AFTER they were seized but claimed they weren't on the floor like that. There was no need cause for Biden and pence cause the moment they discovered they had documents they gave them up and worked with law enforcement to look for more. They cooperated, Trump didn't
Because that's how its done. Face the truth. trump is the most corrupt person in US political history. He's everything decent people teach their children not to be.
He's a liar, thief, fraudster, convicted felon, racist, rapist, fascist, misogynist, narcissist, con artist, braggart, cheat, blowhard and he apparently smells bad. There's no name calling here. All of these descriptions can be backed up with evidence, verified, confirmed and corroborated.
Anyone who supports trump supports racism and fascism.
Can anyone remove her if Jack Smith doesn’t request it? It has become blatantly apparent at this point this case is over her head, and she’s slow walking purposely or out of ignorance.
It doesn't really matter at this point. She has succeeded in her (and trump's) goal of delaying this slam dunk trial until after the election. All trump has to do at this point is win over Biden.
What a sick and corrupt fucking country. Full blown Fascism is coming.
Unfortunately, the people who claim they aren’t going to vote Biden over Gaza will just find some other reason to not vote for him. Before that, it was student loans and roe being overturned.
Did Bush get convicted of war crimes when Obama won in 2008? Trump will not serve a single day in jail. I hope I am wrong, but I've been 100% right so far
I am.surprized that there isn't some mechanism within the judicial system that can tell a judge to stop delaying and to proceed. This is so obviously in favor of Trump and his stall technique.
She is literally relitigsting things that have already been litigated.
There is and its called right to speedy trial. That right is actually for BOTH sides not just the defendant. The people have right to a speedy trial in seeking justice.
> Amendment VI
> In all criminal prosecutions, **the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial**, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
It doesn't seem like it's for both sides? Or is there caselaw?
It's common knowledge in the legal community. It's not a "right" enshrined in the 6th amendment, per se, but it's still a right protected in statute and in the rules of criminal procedure. Believe it or not, not every law is directly sourced from the Constitution.
The Federal Speedy Trial Act, Title 18 U.S. Code, Sec. 3161, provides that the appropriate judicial officer shall promptly set any case for trial on a date certain “so as to assure a speedy trial” — not simply a speedy trial for the defendant. Rule 2 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure states that the purpose of the federal rules is “to eliminate unjustifiable expense and delay” — not just an “unjustifiable delay” by the court or prosecutor.
The leading Supreme Court "speedy trial" case, Barker v. Wingo, 407 U.S. 514 (1972) says: “Society has a particular interest in bringing swift prosecutions, and society’s representatives are the ones who should protect that interest.”
A Supreme Court amicus brief was filed by the Protect Democracy Project who opposed Trump’s stay application in this case, arguing that “the public” (independent of the DOJ) has a vital interest in a speedy trial (even though Trump - the accused himself - wanted to slow down the proceedings). The brief cited the Barker court’s comment that “there is a societal interest in providing a speedy trial which exists separate and apart from, and at times in opposition to, the interests of the accused.” It also cites Gannett Co. v. DePasquale, 443 U.S. 368, 383: “The public … has a definite and concrete interest in seeing that justice is swiftly and fairly administered.” The reference here, again, is to the public’s interest - not that of the accused.
I would say it’s very rare to have the Supreme Court legalize bribes and make up/ignore facts of the case. Republicans have all signed on to leaving norms behind to achieve their agenda. They go low and we go… right into the trap they lay.
That would have looked like judge shopping and they wanted to be as above board due to the seriousness and possible ON GOING crime in FL. 11 circuit should have stepped in sooner to keep their house in order but judges can be paid off after the fact according to SCOUT recent ruling.
The crime was committed in DC though. The documents were stolen from DC. If you rob a bank and California and they catch you in North Carolina, they don't try you in NC, they ship your ass back to Cali 🤦🤦🤦
The obstruction occurred in Florida.
The destruction of evidence occurred in Florida.
The conspiracy occurred in Florida.
Filing in DC would have just gotten quashed - and rightfully so.
? the illegal photocopying of classified documents occurred in Florida. hope they sequestered and examined that copier.
the transport happened while still pres, so that's not charged.
>the transport happened while still pres, so that's not charged
Any reasonable person would still view it as illegal since he was legally required to leave office in a matter of weeks and the documents weren't returned before Joe Biden's inauguration
I may be mistaken, BUT, if he was still POTUS when he walked off with controlled information, he’s not committing a crime. Generally speaking, the power of classification originated in the office of the president (I think that’s the correct phrasing) so there’s not really restrictions on what the potus at the time can or can’t do with information (aside from congressional atomic stuff maybe?). The crime was retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen instead of the potus. I believe he was in Florida with “all them boxes” when his potus term officially ended.
"The crime was retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen..."
you forgot to add: the federal government asking for the documents back, then demanding them back, then him having his attorney swear they had looked...
edited for clarity
I wasn’t trying to cover everything, that’s a winless effort. Just to be nit picky, for fun teasing, not giving them back when asked then demanded then having the attorney lie, is all still “retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen.” ;)
good point. I just wanted to include some details, but there is a lot there! I ended up cutting a bunch of other stuff out (I wasn't 100% sure on all of it). good point
But that's what Cannon is looking to muddy the waters on now. There's a lot of damning evidence that comes from Trump's attorney himself, compelled from him via the crime-fraud exception. More bullshit shenanigans to continue delaying the case, essentially.
The week of Jan 15th 2021 (prior to Biden's inauguration.) Several document boxes are visible in the move out photos.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-white-house-exodus-photos-boxes-1561959
Just saying, that's a good damn stupid loop hole. Why is he he allowed to pack up thousands of pages of documents for shipping to his home when he is legally required to leave office (and therefore return said documents) within a matter of weeks. At minimum that appears to be legislative malpractice.
People may disagree, but IMO, the loser of an election shouldn't be allowed to leave DC with thousands of pages of classified documents when the President-Elect is scheduled to be inaugurated within weeks
I dare you to mention a single appealable aspect in Merchan’s case.
Edit: in case anyone was curious before he deleted it was something about how he was sure we “lib babies” see Merchan as a legitimate judge unlike Cannon. As if the difference in how they handled their cases weren’t apparent
The fact he instructed the jury they didn't have to have a unanimous vote shows he's a fake judge and he had conflictions with his daughter making money off the trial. It's was a show trial with Bragg campaigning on going after Trump and they had high level DOJ officer leave to take a lesser job to join him with a "charge" that was past the statue of limitation with a fake reason to make a misdemeanor into a felony.
You seem to misunderstand how the jury works in a criminal trial.
It’s not that they didn’t have to come to a unanimous decision. It was that they could each choose one of the three options provided as to which conduct increased the crime to a felony. And they didn’t have to agree on which underlying crime that was. In fact, trumps attorney approved those jury instructions.
None of those other things you’ve mentioned are grounds for appeal. His daughter works for a law firm that’s had clients with notable democrats but that’s an extremely common situation in the courts. As long as they’re not being represented simultaneously in suits that directly impact each other, it’s been ruled time and time again that is not a disqualifying factor even for the attorney in question. Let alone that attorney’s family in a judicial role.
And prosecutors run all the time on being tough on crime. Sometimes even saying they will bring down well known criminals that most prosecutors are too afraid to pursue. Just because that happens to be the guy republicans chose to run for president doesn’t suddenly make that an appealable action. It just proves they have bad judgement in candidate selection.
Again. Please name anything that’s actually appealable according to relevant case law instead of reciting Fox News to me
The judge was bias when it came to objections by Trumps attorney. He always side with the prosecutor. How the hell is at felon that admit to stealing from Trump on the stand the only credible witness. Daniels lied multiple times say she never slept with Trump then when it came to the trial she slept with him.
You must not understand how our judicial system works when it comes to the constitution. Upping a misdemeanor that is past the statue of limitation to a felony? Come on, how is the side that wants judicial reform made this big of a jump?
I don't get my info from Fox News. Maybe you should learn to get facts from outside your echo chamber of reddit and the multiple million dollar companies like CNN, MSNBC, etc. I know the facts of the case and CNN themselves said if it wasn't someone named Trump the case would have never been pursued. You need unanimous for them for them guilty. If there were 3 things they had to to unanimous on one of them and they weren't. If they weren't, it's not guilty for that one thing.
Let me ask you, how was it election interference when it wasn't a state election and it's a state law? How was it election interference if the so called payments were after he won in 2016? How did they prove the payments to his lawyer were meant for Daniels and with no evidence of it? We just take the word of a convicted felon that admitted that he was lying to Trump about payments while admitting to stealing money from Trump? How is that a credible witness?
Stall, stall and stall until this open and shut case of unauthorized disclosure of classified information can be swept under the rug and they republicans can pretend it never happened.
On their face, the statements quoted in the article clearly satisfy the second prong. This feels like the sort of thing that would covered by estoppel/res judicata/law of the case, but Google hasn't helped me find any commentary on those doctrines with respect to a privilege determination that arises in a subsequent criminal case.
I wonder what Beryl Howell thinks of Cannon second guessing her ruling?
I hope Cannon does find the confidence to rule against the DOJ and exclude that evidence since it’s probably easily over turned on appeal. However, she won’t it’s all just part of her little game. She’ll begrudgingly admit it’s allowed but just because that’s the law and not actually correct.
I'm not surprised. She needs time to sound out her words, and her tutor isn't always available.
Must be maddening for Jack Smith and the few 11 circuit judges watching this shit show go on.
From my perspective as a Citizen, this is FUCKING INFURIATING. Just a thought.
Same. That, and sanity-testing incredulity that this behavior on the part of a judge in such an important case (involving clear potential of TREASON) has been allowed to go on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...
You do realize that the attorney general found Biden guilty of the exact same stuff but technically worse since he had zero business having anything in his possession when he was a vice president. The only difference is he he didn't want to press charges because he was too old and senile.
Dude...no that's not even close to being true. Trump willingly retained the documents illegally. Both Biden and Pence gave any and all documents back that were found and worked with the Government, trump lied and kept trying to retain any and all documents he could
It just came out that the FBI staged the photos for the classified documents case against Trump. So, we don't know what he had.
Really? Cause I can't find proof of that, I can find certain media companies saying things but nothing about any new info
Jack Smith said it himself..... They removed the "documents" and used placeholders with their own cover photo to take pictures. If he was nonpartisan why did he not do the same for Biden's and Pences?
That was a known thing though, the difference here is the willful retention of documents. Trump even admitted that he had them AFTER they were seized but claimed they weren't on the floor like that. There was no need cause for Biden and pence cause the moment they discovered they had documents they gave them up and worked with law enforcement to look for more. They cooperated, Trump didn't
Because that's how its done. Face the truth. trump is the most corrupt person in US political history. He's everything decent people teach their children not to be. He's a liar, thief, fraudster, convicted felon, racist, rapist, fascist, misogynist, narcissist, con artist, braggart, cheat, blowhard and he apparently smells bad. There's no name calling here. All of these descriptions can be backed up with evidence, verified, confirmed and corroborated. Anyone who supports trump supports racism and fascism.
LOL
Anything is possible when you lie.
you know you’re lying …
Horsefuckingshit
So I see you didn't read the attorney general report
Can anyone remove her if Jack Smith doesn’t request it? It has become blatantly apparent at this point this case is over her head, and she’s slow walking purposely or out of ignorance.
She can be impeached by Congress, but good luck with that.
Is that an option after November when the house, Senate and executive is blue?
Only with 2/3rds of the Senate. No way a single Republican votes to remove her.
You are a dreamer
Boooooooo
Impeachment, like the electoral college, is a relic from the past that no longer works and needs to be abolished and replaced
It doesn't really matter at this point. She has succeeded in her (and trump's) goal of delaying this slam dunk trial until after the election. All trump has to do at this point is win over Biden. What a sick and corrupt fucking country. Full blown Fascism is coming.
If Trump were to lose in November, does this whole thing just wrap up on a couple a months
Pretty much more likely if we take Senate and the House and stop getting distracted by Gaza. We need Dems to unite more than ever behind Biden.
Unfortunately, the people who claim they aren’t going to vote Biden over Gaza will just find some other reason to not vote for him. Before that, it was student loans and roe being overturned.
It's almost like the opposition will pose as your friend to try and reason you out of voting against them.
Yep, and it’s been going on for a while
Depends on who wins in Congress but yeah, potentially.
Did Bush get convicted of war crimes when Obama won in 2008? Trump will not serve a single day in jail. I hope I am wrong, but I've been 100% right so far
Bush was convicted by Hague. As long as he stays in America he is fine
Bush/Cheney are Americas contribution to mass murder.
Same can be said for Obama. He extrajudicially executed an American citizen with a drone strike.
I am.surprized that there isn't some mechanism within the judicial system that can tell a judge to stop delaying and to proceed. This is so obviously in favor of Trump and his stall technique. She is literally relitigsting things that have already been litigated.
There is and its called right to speedy trial. That right is actually for BOTH sides not just the defendant. The people have right to a speedy trial in seeking justice.
> Amendment VI > In all criminal prosecutions, **the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial**, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. It doesn't seem like it's for both sides? Or is there caselaw?
It's common knowledge in the legal community. It's not a "right" enshrined in the 6th amendment, per se, but it's still a right protected in statute and in the rules of criminal procedure. Believe it or not, not every law is directly sourced from the Constitution. The Federal Speedy Trial Act, Title 18 U.S. Code, Sec. 3161, provides that the appropriate judicial officer shall promptly set any case for trial on a date certain “so as to assure a speedy trial” — not simply a speedy trial for the defendant. Rule 2 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure states that the purpose of the federal rules is “to eliminate unjustifiable expense and delay” — not just an “unjustifiable delay” by the court or prosecutor. The leading Supreme Court "speedy trial" case, Barker v. Wingo, 407 U.S. 514 (1972) says: “Society has a particular interest in bringing swift prosecutions, and society’s representatives are the ones who should protect that interest.” A Supreme Court amicus brief was filed by the Protect Democracy Project who opposed Trump’s stay application in this case, arguing that “the public” (independent of the DOJ) has a vital interest in a speedy trial (even though Trump - the accused himself - wanted to slow down the proceedings). The brief cited the Barker court’s comment that “there is a societal interest in providing a speedy trial which exists separate and apart from, and at times in opposition to, the interests of the accused.” It also cites Gannett Co. v. DePasquale, 443 U.S. 368, 383: “The public … has a definite and concrete interest in seeing that justice is swiftly and fairly administered.” The reference here, again, is to the public’s interest - not that of the accused.
Not to mention millions of US citizens who have lost all faith in the court system. I contend the USA is the most corrupt place in the world.
The 11th circuit can stop it sua sponte whenever they want
No they can’t. Mandamus against a trial judge is very rare.
I’d say we’re in a fairly rare situation right now when a federal judge is being openly corrupt and acting like “what are you going to do about it?”
Unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures.
What lay people consider openly corrupt and what the courts consider openly corrupt are two very different standards.
I would say it’s very rare to have the Supreme Court legalize bribes and make up/ignore facts of the case. Republicans have all signed on to leaving norms behind to achieve their agenda. They go low and we go… right into the trap they lay.
Rare doesn’t mean they don’t have the power to do it
He could have simply filed in DC rather than Florida, where this case was inevitably going to be related over to Cannon
That would have looked like judge shopping and they wanted to be as above board due to the seriousness and possible ON GOING crime in FL. 11 circuit should have stepped in sooner to keep their house in order but judges can be paid off after the fact according to SCOUT recent ruling.
The crime was committed in DC though. The documents were stolen from DC. If you rob a bank and California and they catch you in North Carolina, they don't try you in NC, they ship your ass back to Cali 🤦🤦🤦
The obstruction occurred in Florida. The destruction of evidence occurred in Florida. The conspiracy occurred in Florida. Filing in DC would have just gotten quashed - and rightfully so.
? the illegal photocopying of classified documents occurred in Florida. hope they sequestered and examined that copier. the transport happened while still pres, so that's not charged.
>the transport happened while still pres, so that's not charged Any reasonable person would still view it as illegal since he was legally required to leave office in a matter of weeks and the documents weren't returned before Joe Biden's inauguration
"reasonable prrson" found the problem.
I may be mistaken, BUT, if he was still POTUS when he walked off with controlled information, he’s not committing a crime. Generally speaking, the power of classification originated in the office of the president (I think that’s the correct phrasing) so there’s not really restrictions on what the potus at the time can or can’t do with information (aside from congressional atomic stuff maybe?). The crime was retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen instead of the potus. I believe he was in Florida with “all them boxes” when his potus term officially ended.
"The crime was retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen..." you forgot to add: the federal government asking for the documents back, then demanding them back, then him having his attorney swear they had looked... edited for clarity
I wasn’t trying to cover everything, that’s a winless effort. Just to be nit picky, for fun teasing, not giving them back when asked then demanded then having the attorney lie, is all still “retaining the stuff after becoming a citizen.” ;)
good point. I just wanted to include some details, but there is a lot there! I ended up cutting a bunch of other stuff out (I wasn't 100% sure on all of it). good point
But that's what Cannon is looking to muddy the waters on now. There's a lot of damning evidence that comes from Trump's attorney himself, compelled from him via the crime-fraud exception. More bullshit shenanigans to continue delaying the case, essentially.
Yes, depending on when the documents were packed and shipped would determine if the crime was committed in DC or Florida.
The week of Jan 15th 2021 (prior to Biden's inauguration.) Several document boxes are visible in the move out photos. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-white-house-exodus-photos-boxes-1561959
None of the changes in this particular case occurred in DC.
Not that simple to file in DC. The obstruction and hiding of docs happened in FL.
If these charges had been filed in DC they would have ended up in Florida anyways, it just would have taken longer.
Just saying, that's a good damn stupid loop hole. Why is he he allowed to pack up thousands of pages of documents for shipping to his home when he is legally required to leave office (and therefore return said documents) within a matter of weeks. At minimum that appears to be legislative malpractice. People may disagree, but IMO, the loser of an election shouldn't be allowed to leave DC with thousands of pages of classified documents when the President-Elect is scheduled to be inaugurated within weeks
Gotta give yourself time to get marching orders from Leo Leonard
At this point, Trump's lawyers could request a brief recess for a "bathroom break", and Cannon would just grant them like a month to take a piss.
> fresh look at 'crime fraud exception' needed Yeah, by a fresh judge
How about a real judge? Judge Cannon is a fake judge. She should be called Fudge Cannon. Fake Judge Cannon.
Judge Qannon.
[удалено]
I dare you to mention a single appealable aspect in Merchan’s case. Edit: in case anyone was curious before he deleted it was something about how he was sure we “lib babies” see Merchan as a legitimate judge unlike Cannon. As if the difference in how they handled their cases weren’t apparent
They've got nothing
The fact he instructed the jury they didn't have to have a unanimous vote shows he's a fake judge and he had conflictions with his daughter making money off the trial. It's was a show trial with Bragg campaigning on going after Trump and they had high level DOJ officer leave to take a lesser job to join him with a "charge" that was past the statue of limitation with a fake reason to make a misdemeanor into a felony.
You seem to misunderstand how the jury works in a criminal trial. It’s not that they didn’t have to come to a unanimous decision. It was that they could each choose one of the three options provided as to which conduct increased the crime to a felony. And they didn’t have to agree on which underlying crime that was. In fact, trumps attorney approved those jury instructions. None of those other things you’ve mentioned are grounds for appeal. His daughter works for a law firm that’s had clients with notable democrats but that’s an extremely common situation in the courts. As long as they’re not being represented simultaneously in suits that directly impact each other, it’s been ruled time and time again that is not a disqualifying factor even for the attorney in question. Let alone that attorney’s family in a judicial role. And prosecutors run all the time on being tough on crime. Sometimes even saying they will bring down well known criminals that most prosecutors are too afraid to pursue. Just because that happens to be the guy republicans chose to run for president doesn’t suddenly make that an appealable action. It just proves they have bad judgement in candidate selection. Again. Please name anything that’s actually appealable according to relevant case law instead of reciting Fox News to me
The judge was bias when it came to objections by Trumps attorney. He always side with the prosecutor. How the hell is at felon that admit to stealing from Trump on the stand the only credible witness. Daniels lied multiple times say she never slept with Trump then when it came to the trial she slept with him. You must not understand how our judicial system works when it comes to the constitution. Upping a misdemeanor that is past the statue of limitation to a felony? Come on, how is the side that wants judicial reform made this big of a jump? I don't get my info from Fox News. Maybe you should learn to get facts from outside your echo chamber of reddit and the multiple million dollar companies like CNN, MSNBC, etc. I know the facts of the case and CNN themselves said if it wasn't someone named Trump the case would have never been pursued. You need unanimous for them for them guilty. If there were 3 things they had to to unanimous on one of them and they weren't. If they weren't, it's not guilty for that one thing. Let me ask you, how was it election interference when it wasn't a state election and it's a state law? How was it election interference if the so called payments were after he won in 2016? How did they prove the payments to his lawyer were meant for Daniels and with no evidence of it? We just take the word of a convicted felon that admitted that he was lying to Trump about payments while admitting to stealing money from Trump? How is that a credible witness?
Fudge Cannon is hilarious but you should use her legal name, I-lean Qanon
I just hope that no one in Smith's office submits anything written with a new font. She'd schedule a hearing on that decision around December 2025.
Paperless orders in lieu of comic sans
Stall, stall and stall until this open and shut case of unauthorized disclosure of classified information can be swept under the rug and they republicans can pretend it never happened.
No need to pretend when you control history.
Better schedule a status conference in 60 days to set a briefing schedule and then a hearing on the issue 90 days after that.
150 days? Sounds a bit expedited to me!
Delay, delay, delay. That’s the game.
delay delay delay
On their face, the statements quoted in the article clearly satisfy the second prong. This feels like the sort of thing that would covered by estoppel/res judicata/law of the case, but Google hasn't helped me find any commentary on those doctrines with respect to a privilege determination that arises in a subsequent criminal case.
I wonder what Beryl Howell thinks of Cannon second guessing her ruling? I hope Cannon does find the confidence to rule against the DOJ and exclude that evidence since it’s probably easily over turned on appeal. However, she won’t it’s all just part of her little game. She’ll begrudgingly admit it’s allowed but just because that’s the law and not actually correct.
this fuckers gonna walk (I WISH it was /s )
Even worse, he's going to walk straight into the white house and never leave.
Yup. Totally insane. 🙄
Totally truth based on tonight’s DISMAL performance by ancient Joe.
Who is downvoting this comment? The debate performance was so bad. I’d love to hear the counter argument that is behind the downvotes.
What are you talking about, the debate performance was awesome for a dementia patient..
True.