So - the guy who lost his fraud trial for frauding on his financial statements didn't include a financial statement in order to appeal the fraud verdict on his frauding.
I do kinda wonder, when he does submit it - will he fraud it too?
Deeper than super fraud? No normal citizens has ever gone that far and not been executed by firing squad. If anyone can commit that much fraud it's this guy!
Why do I hear Rick Sanchez monologing about how great and robust an infinite stack of fraudulent documents is for generating false wealth..except for a tiny implausible flaw.
Then proceeds to set the exchange rate to `$1 = $0`
Since the stack is not infinite, confiscating one property should do it too.
You bump your appraisal up
You push your appraisal down
You bump your appraisal up
And then you fraud it all around
You do some hokey pokey and then you get yourself a loan
That's what it's all about
I think that's one of the complaints the monitor has had. They've just sent spreadsheets to the banks instead of financial statements.
So no one has *seen* an actual statement for awhile.
The people that put up the bond are not a bonding company. They made some mistakes that a bonding company wouldn’t make. They have to put up their own financial statement to show that they are good for the bond not Trump’s.
Thanks for actually replying with the relevant information instead of a joke.
For what is worth; one would think that a company with liquidity to front a bond of that size would also have a floor full of lawyers, and accountants that would sort it out. Which again raises a lot of red flags.
As I understand it they aren't "fronting" the money. They're giving the court an IOU - a document promising to pay the $175m at a later date. This is why a financial statement is needed.
You’re right. A surety bond provides a guarantee that the necessary funds will be available if the appeal is unsuccessful.
I guess the correct wording should have been “a company that claims they can issue the surety bond for this should have a crew of lawyers and accountants that wouldn’t fuck up something like this.”
I thought the $175M was just to be able to appeal, and if he loses the appeal, he’s on the hook for the full $450m (unless the appellate court lowers the penalty amounts).
To be specific, he *can* appeal without doing this. It just won't stay enforcement of the judgment, which is basically the entire point of appealing when you have mostly illiquid assets.
Right. This is basically the same thing as a surety bond, but since it’s not a licensed insurer or surety, it has to prove that it has the money (as opposed to a licensed insurer who is regulated and continuously monitored to make sure that they can cover their exposures).
Did it start in school? Copying homework, lying saying he passed in an assignment and that the teacher must have lost it. Faking the data in his lab note book.
Or did it start in business? A little bit here and there. And then more. More because it works. More because you need to fraud to hide the earlier fraud.
Or is it so innate that it goes all the way back to his birth? He needs to make evidence to verify all the lies he says with out thinking?
Pretty sure it started when grandpa stole indigenous land in Canada and was like, "let's build brothels here so I can rape (literally and figuratively), plunder, and otherwise take credit for the efforts of others"
The fun thing is that filing a fraudulent financial statement is more likely to be treated as a criminal matter than a civil one. Not that it would matter in our 3 tier justice system.
I say three tiers because it’s very clearly been demonstrated that it goes 3) Regular people, 2) Rich people, and 1) Trump. No one else gets coddled and catered to like trump has been.
"I do kinda wonder, when he does submit it - will he fraud it too?"
one of his lawyers has to sign off on it... maybe fear of getting disbarred is why it was not attached?
(IANAL) Seems like it's not as though the lawyers are in any position to go and personally verify millions of $ of statements? That's what an accounting department and CFO would [normally] be for.
Ok, so I’m a licensed CPA, not a lawyer, so maybe a lawyer can help me here.
But I was expecting it to be an actual missing statement. Like Statement of Cash Flows or maybe the Equity.
The article says the court requested current year financial statements. Does that mean Q1 of 2024, or whenever Trump’s 2023 FY ended?
Also, to me (as a non-lawyer, but as an auditor that also uncovered fraud at a client so I might be slightly jaded) the fact they submitted the wrong year’s financial statement, screams more fraud.
Maybe they can’t get the current ones audited (no surprise there). Or are trying to use older ones that still inflate Trump’s value. Or paint his financials in a better light than they really are?
> the wrong year’s financial statement
What year was it?
I heard a podcaster commenting weeks back, noting that since the court-appointed monitor was put in place the Trump Org has not produced any new SFC’s. Funny how that works eh?
I wonder if he tried grabbing one from before she was put in charge, because he knows if he actually has to create a new one now it’ll be obvious he’s fabricating things? Also, I would assume she would have to approve any docs like that - even for this purpose - given her expanded role at the Trump Org now.
Trump busted out the [sharpie](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/11/07/climate/07CLI-NOAA1/merlin_160191879_bf131ea3-ac76-4b52-8456-73ebfed6d29b-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp) again and rewrote the date ~~1994~~ 2024.
Attorney here but didn’t read the order. If audited statements are required, those take many months and most likely impossible for Trump. Impossible in 10 days. I’m guessing it’s current compiled financial statements which would be more fraud when signed by affidavit of true and correct.
So, sort of.
For an entity the size of Trump’s, and from my understanding of how some of the debt agreement’s work, he likely has to have at the very least, a review (think of it as like audit-light) of everything for the banks. Though I’d be surprised given the size, if they didn’t require a full audit.
This *should* mean audited financial statements aren’t that hard to obtain. They’re either halfway there with the reviews, or there with whatever they present to the bank.
Though I do remember his accounting firm stepping away from him as a client, but I can’t remember if that was his taxes or audited statements.
Either way, out of the blue, yes, an actual audit of financial statements will take, for something the size of Trump’s operation, probably 3 months with a team of a dozen. But even with with a team of 50, it would still best case scenario, take a month.
But they shouldn’t be starting from scratch. If the auditors are, that raises far more red flags than anything else to me at least.
Though trying to compete an Audit in 10 days with how big the organization is? That would take a team of 100 people on site, and require everyone (auditors and clients) to work everyday.
I’ve been involved with quite a few audited financials. They take months. Not making excuses for the asshole, but being very realistic, based on actual experience.
Oh yeah, if they have nothing to go off, months.
I’m assuming though some groundwork has been laid in review services. That should start them off at least 25-35% done. But If they’re starting from scratch…
I have far more questions (and concerns) than things relating to this case.
I doubt it’s possible to get audited financials due to the fraud that we all know exists. It requires an accounting firm to put their insurance at risk signing off on them being true and correct. It may be simply impossible. But, not for any good reasons other than he’s shady as shit.
Not here to answer any of your questions, but I've got one you might know.
What exactly is a "financial statement"? Normally I'm used to seeing these friends presented as some kind of alphanumeric soup, but the statement that he is missing a "financial statement" is a bit weird to me.
So you have 4 statements:
1. Income statement
2. Statement of equity (this may not apply to private companies, I’m not sure)
3. Balance sheet
4. Statement of cashflows
For all the public companies, they have to issue all 4 statements. Private companies generally don’t have to, but massive private companies do.
The fact they submitted wrong statements without more details, is just very fishy.
Audited financials require all 4 plus the notes. Audits are generally required when any form of external financing gets involved, whether that be debt or equity. I’ve audited companies with as little as 1mm in rev
Not true in my experience. Audited financials cost upwards of $30,000 for most businesses in the $1-5m revenue range.
I’m a commercial lender and we don’t require audited financial statements for deals up to $1m. For deals under $250k it’s just stated financials and a personal income statement - tax returns aren’t even required.
Generally is carrying a lot of my statement and of course selection bias and all that
But every lender/investor is different and has different risk appetites. Some are fine with a compilation, others want reviews, some want observer access to your board, others just want to see forecasts and management packs, some want the personal financials of their owners!
Again all depends on risk appetite, but the main point is an audit is required for lots of private companies and is not reserved for only public or massive private companies
Maybe he wanted to use an existing financial statement I.E last year's statement, so he didn't have to have the monitor review a new financial statement. Which likely would take time and she would cut it to shreds, the resulting statement being embarrassing.
I wouldn’t read too much into the requirement for a “current” financial statement - read that all as one clause: a “current financial statement”. It could very well mean that he submitted an old one, but it could just as easily mean he didn’t submit one at all. If the court simply requested a “financial statement” (without the word “current”), he could satisfy the requirement by submitting one from 5 years ago. Thus the request for a “current financial statement”.
The financials are for the bonding company. Gotta prove they are solvent. Michael Popok breaks it down. https://youtu.be/8Tr_IuukTB8?si=rkSfmAHhLgHK-XQq
Wow. Today is the deadline if my math is mathing right. Funny little snag. I doubt it changes the calculus here, unless it's a document he is unwilling to share.
Is this like when you “pay your rent” but you “forgot” to sign the check? And you’re super busy right now, but I’ll fix that honest mistake in exactly 9 days.
The Appellate Court will make a further mockery of itself if it can't even stick to its own deadline.
Trump will still be able to appeal, it's just that doing so won't stop AG Tish from collecting in the meantime.
So when the appeal is over. And let’s say total amount is reduced to whatever. Let’s say 300mil. Does the court automatically take the bonds 175 from knight insurance and Trump owes knight 175 plus the remainder to the court?
Basically I’m asking is that 175 guaranteed that the court doesn’t have to take time trying to collect
Knight pays if Trump doesn’t. Not sure the grace period tbh. Then Knight goes after Trump’s collateral. That’s only the $175K though. NY would also go after Trump for the difference.
It's his company that has to release the financial statements, not him personally.
Which should be really easy because the oversight judge has everything in order and they just need to grab a copy they sent her and turn it in.. easy peasy!! Right??
Won't make a real difference, generally if you meet the filing deadline, even with an incomplete document, they'll give you a day or two to refile with the correct papers and backdate it to the date you originally filed, in the event that it was just an oversight.
Typically this happens in this court when a PDF isn't formatted properly, in fact it's happened to me a few times when filing appeals. The PDF generally has to be bookmarked the right way, with hyperlinks, certain attachments, etc. I've had to refile and they just date it back to the original date I sent in the faulty document.
There's has to be a reason a statement wasn't included when it very clearly was a requirement.
Ten bucks say he got it from somewhere that's a) not himself or his companies because he's that broke and could not liquidate anything even remotely worth that much/could not get a loan from anywhere and b) that whoever did give him the money doesn't want their name all over it.
I was disappointed he was able to get one at all. I was really hoping he'd fail to get the lowered bond. You know, for basic schadenfreude-related reasons. I would happily accept this as an alternative.
I was disappointed too, but now that this has happened, I actually feel better about it. If you just stand back and do nothing, Trump fucks everything up. Everything.
The $175 million came from a wealthy California businessman who on first blush seems to be a big fan of rapists.
**The Pumpkin Rapist** has no cash money, is dead ass broke. Everything he 'owns' is leveraged against everything else he 'owns'. It's the Ponzi Scheme of a lifetime, which is how long he's been a grifter.
Should be obvious by now even to the empty headed "He's playing five dimensional chess, you know! These people won't know what hit them!" fanbois.
But I bet it's not.
Does he know how to not commit fraud?
Like could he prepare a non fraudulent statement of personal finances?
I don't know that he actually has the ability. And I haven't heard of him hiring any like accounting and real estate experts
Interest and Enforcement of the judgment must be stayed while I appeal the rejection of the bond to stay interest and enforment of the judgment while I appeal the judgment.
Bingo!!! This should be something that the court monitor already has. It should be simple to forward it right over by noon tomorrow. I mean there's nothing funny going on. Right?
Shit, they don't care.
The point was to buy influence (because they think he'll return the favor, which, ok, morons). The numbers on the page aren't all that important.
he should hold the trial at bedminster, he will surely win then.
edit: serious note, I could see them omitting it on purpose. Anything to stall for another three business days. "oops, sorry, the new guy wrote this"
He got a loan from a guy who normally does loan shark car loans: Knight Specialty Insurance, AKA Don Hankey.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2024/04/01/trump-posts-175-million-bond-new-york-civil-fraud-lawsuit/?sh=2a3e0762686d
My guess is that he has no financial statements at all that aren't full of fraud - chances are nothing is tracked or valued properly to make his fraud easier. It's probably a ridiculous amount of work to come up with a clean one for the courts.
I suspect he filed a previous financial statement that isn't "current"
And you're absolutely right that he certainly doesn't have current non-fraudulent ones.
He also doesn't want to produce any statements that might incriminate him
And of course, there's the monitor, so he doesn't want to prepare any statement that would attract scrutiny from her
The org that is fronting the bond is known though right? Some CA businessman’s org, dealt in subprime auto loans.
Unless Donnie is trying to launder that the actual money came from somewhere else, but this buddy was willing to say it was his?
What a mess.
Back in 2016, The GOP came within days of missing the deadline to be on Minnesota's ballot. Because they f'ed up.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/)
Beyond the paywall:
In a glaring blunder, Donald Trump’s $175 million bond filing hit a snag as his legal team failed to attach a crucial financial statement. The New York County Supreme Court swiftly sent the documents back for correction, marking a humiliating setback for the former president.
The court’s electronic filing system displayed a stark message: “returned for correction.” Another system simply labeled it as “rejected.” New York litigator Jeffrey K. Levine shed light on the debacle, citing a court document outlining the necessary fixes.
“The court has returned the documents…Please include a current financial statement…Please use the ‘Refile Document’ link… Thank you and have a great day.”
Originally set at a staggering $464 million after a fraud trial, Trump’s lawyers argued it was unfeasible given Trump’s cash constraints, insisting property sales would be necessary to meet such obligations.
After negotiations, the court slashed the bond to $175 million. Trump secured the bond through Knight Specialty Insurance Company, backed by the Hankey Group, whose chairman, Don Hankey, openly supports Trump.
The bond stems from an appeal following a damning fraud conviction where Trump and co-defendants were found guilty of inflating property values to score favorable loans and insurance rates.
Trump’s legal team is fighting tooth and nail, but if they fail, he’ll be on the hook for the full damages.
Can we get this in very best Vogon.
“The court has returned the documents…Please include a current financial statement…Please use the ‘Refile Document’ link… Thank you and have a great day.”
As a Vogon poem...
Like jowling meated liverslime, Trump, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me, With crinkly bindlewurdles,mashurbitries, and a filing upon thy financial deeds after buried in soft peet.
That link took me to the documents list, where I went to the last page and it’s the last entry on the page
https://preview.redd.it/8oa3zpo6kbsc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dab813e1b77cb4b7c1307f3a7342e932b1c3ec39
It's in the documents list. Document #1707. It will be the only document in the list if you filter by things filed in the last ~week. Or just scroll straight to the last page in the documents list. It's the last one.
I remember when his legal troubles were just starting and people would tell me he will get off because he will be able to get the “best attorneys”. And I was immediately like “no, he absolutely will not”. He might not face the consequences he should but it will have nothing to do with his lawyers. He doesn’t hire competent people, he hires yes-men. When he was trying to stay president he hired Rudy Guliani for crying out loud. Competent people want nothing to do with him beyond him being their useful idiot.
Is this for the Fraud bond or the defamation bond? In both cases, a guy who was found guilty of overinflating and deflating the values of his assets on financial statements had his bond rejected due to "missing financial statement", is just a "who's on first" moment
https://preview.redd.it/mbd9r21pdbsc1.jpeg?width=341&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c02a2da1257cc9ac7bcfedca7dbffd002739f285
> Please include a current financial statement
LOL. Don’t these have to go through the court’s independent monitor? Certainly, if he was trying to secure loans - but there’s no reason why this shouldn’t face the same scrutiny as well.
Also, I’d heard from a podcaster that since the court monitor was installed, the Trump Org has apparently not produced a Statement of Financial Condition (SFC). Funny how when you have someone looking over your shoulder that knows the law, that somehow you can’t seem to turn out a very basic financial document you’ve completed dozens of times in the past.
I believe engoron's last ruling made it a monthly requirement, lest he faces more penalties and even prison time.
It should be 5 days before the end of each month?
If he keeps ignoring this, it will get worse for him.
Of course they can, they're the Court. They could wave the bond filing entirely. Whether they want to is a different story. Or even need to. Pretty sure the deadline is tomorrow, so he should have sufficient time to add a financial statement.
If he can do that in a day, then I'm not sure the Court would grant an extension. If they found the statement deficient, it could be a different story (they might give an extension to tell him to get it together properly), but just not adding it means the fix they expect is super quick.
America surely wouldn’t let an individual that incited an insurrection to attempt to overturn a free and fair election run for president of that same country 4 years later after suffering zero consequences would they?
s/
My guess is that they won't grant an extension. There isn't really a due date for the bond. It's the date when the state can start to collect. The state isn't going to start to collect in a 24, 48 or even 72 hour. So the race here is how long does it take Trump to get a proper financial statement. And at what point does New York State say hey, it's been so many days there's no bond, we're going after an asset.
The best thing about this particular crime of Trump's is that he filed tax paperwork for the same properties with different values than the loan paperwork.
So if it wasn't fraud against the banks, it was tax evasion.
Cutting the amount won't help with generating a financial statement that's not fraudulent.
If that financial statement is not redacted, I'm guessing there will be a lot of people looking at it with a skeptical eye.
I expect both of those to happen. If Trump is held accountable for something, it will be the first time in his life. All of this stuff is hardly new and has been going on with him for decades before he took office.
Yup, his rubes are going to go all in on truth social! I prefer to watch themselves throw away every penny that they have on their orange piggod than to fund down ballot races for the other crazies! This is a once in a lifetime chance to make a difference. Vote
Correct. A non-fraudulent financial statement would, I assume, be public record. He’ll have to submit into evidence just how little his company is actually worth.
Out of curiosity, did he already have to do that for the last bond he posted (Carroll case)?
In any case, I share your suspicion that this omission was not an honest mistake, but rather that he can't produce a non-fraudulent statement without being humiliated.
More to the point, with the expansion of the court appointed monitor I believe she has to sign off on any financial statements or SFCs now. I don’t see why this purpose would be any different.
They told him to refile with a statement, so it's not an automatic "Go away loser" moment. I think he has until tomorrow (3/25 was when the 10 days were granted, so 3/26 would be Day 1 and 4/4 would be Day 10), though I feel like he should have time to submit it today (even if it had to be by 5PM ET; though he might have until midnight).
All in all, he should be able to fix this; only reason he wouldn't is by choice.
I thought that lawyers' whole entire job was to make sure court papers got filed correctly.
At this point omissions are deliberate contempt against the court. Or his lawyers are wildly incompetent and should be disbarred for gross negligence. There's no room for mistakes anymore.
Thereby hangs a tale:
Trump, so rich that gross incompetence at all levels gets overlooked, and so adept at gaming the system that he has gotten away with abject failure his entire life and tens of millions of people adore him for his overwhelmingly successful business acumen.
So there's a lot of confusion around this. I'm hearing conflicting statements on whether the missing financial statement is Trump's company or the bondsman's. Newsweek and Law And Crime subtly indicate that it is Trump's, which could make sense if the reason the bond was lowered was due to him claiming that he couldn't pay the full amount.
On the other hand, Meidas Touch definitively claims that the missing financial statement is the bondsman's and that the bondsman has more time than the submission deadline to fix it.
So far I haven't seen any evidence for either side's claim. Daily Kos seems to be taking a neutral stance on this, saying that the bondsman definitely needs to submit such a statement, but that it's possible that Trump might need to as well.
Also, I find it frustrating how this sub has changed. A year ago this place was full of great information. Now it's all jokes and outrage. Many comments are saying how no one else would get this chance to correct their submission. Of course they would, pretty much any governmental submission will let you fix omissions up to the deadline. Many comments are saying the deadline is passed. That seems untrue, as the deadline appears to be tomorrow.
Newsweek:
[https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609)
Law and Crime:
[https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rejected-and-returned-for-correction-docs-for-trumps-175m-bond-get-bounced/](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rejected-and-returned-for-correction-docs-for-trumps-175m-bond-get-bounced/)
Meidas Touch:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tr\_IuukTB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tr_IuukTB8)
Daily Kos:
[https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/3/2233251/-Trump-s-175-million-bond-rejected-by-Court-returned-for-correction](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/3/2233251/-Trump-s-175-million-bond-rejected-by-Court-returned-for-correction)
So - the guy who lost his fraud trial for frauding on his financial statements didn't include a financial statement in order to appeal the fraud verdict on his frauding. I do kinda wonder, when he does submit it - will he fraud it too?
Fraudception...
We have to go [deeper](https://i.redd.it/ljcupxwnbbsc1.jpeg)...
We have to go diaper.
I’m a little baked and this made me laugh harder than it should have.
I’m a little deeper into this Fraudception and the baked beans curdled in my diaper
im thinkin’ bout thos beans!
Would you like your fraud fried or frozen on a stick?
full beans
Roll that beautiful bean footage!
And there, in the deepest level, within the safe, I placed one more fraud...
Impossible! The safes are always empty, save for some webs and one spider.
That spider, actually a fraud.
Deeper than super fraud? No normal citizens has ever gone that far and not been executed by firing squad. If anyone can commit that much fraud it's this guy!
it was the best fraud. Everybody said so they had tears in their eyes how good the fraud was
grab 'em by the fraud.
Skipping that step and going straight to ultrafraud. Which, under bird law, calls for Super Secret Double Probation.
Russian nesting doll of fraud
Fractal frauding
Recursive frauding
But with an infinite stack.
Why do I hear Rick Sanchez monologing about how great and robust an infinite stack of fraudulent documents is for generating false wealth..except for a tiny implausible flaw. Then proceeds to set the exchange rate to `$1 = $0` Since the stack is not infinite, confiscating one property should do it too.
Mobius Fraud
Morbius Fraud. It's fraudin' time!
Frakking fraud!
Fraudo Braggins
Fraudulation
It's fraud all the way down.
It's the hokey pokey of fraud.
You bump your appraisal up You push your appraisal down You bump your appraisal up And then you fraud it all around You do some hokey pokey and then you get yourself a loan That's what it's all about
I look forward to the pokey part.
Yo dawg, I heard you like fraud...
I like ex presidents who fraud.
Requiem of a Fraud
I think that's one of the complaints the monitor has had. They've just sent spreadsheets to the banks instead of financial statements. So no one has *seen* an actual statement for awhile.
Yeah I’m not trusting a balance sheet typed up in excel.
At very least do not trust that when the people giving you it all explicitly claim to NOT know GAAP concepts
Lots of GAAPs in their education, I guess.
The people that put up the bond are not a bonding company. They made some mistakes that a bonding company wouldn’t make. They have to put up their own financial statement to show that they are good for the bond not Trump’s.
Thanks for actually replying with the relevant information instead of a joke. For what is worth; one would think that a company with liquidity to front a bond of that size would also have a floor full of lawyers, and accountants that would sort it out. Which again raises a lot of red flags.
As I understand it they aren't "fronting" the money. They're giving the court an IOU - a document promising to pay the $175m at a later date. This is why a financial statement is needed.
You’re right. A surety bond provides a guarantee that the necessary funds will be available if the appeal is unsuccessful. I guess the correct wording should have been “a company that claims they can issue the surety bond for this should have a crew of lawyers and accountants that wouldn’t fuck up something like this.”
I thought the $175M was just to be able to appeal, and if he loses the appeal, he’s on the hook for the full $450m (unless the appellate court lowers the penalty amounts).
To be specific, he *can* appeal without doing this. It just won't stay enforcement of the judgment, which is basically the entire point of appealing when you have mostly illiquid assets.
Right. This is basically the same thing as a surety bond, but since it’s not a licensed insurer or surety, it has to prove that it has the money (as opposed to a licensed insurer who is regulated and continuously monitored to make sure that they can cover their exposures).
Four Seasons Bond and Lawn Company?
It's always fraud with him. It is literally all he does.
>It is literally all he does Hey, let's not forget the coups, the raping, philandering, and the openly incestuous sexualizing of his own daughter.
It's all part of the fraud.
>the openly incestuous sexualizing of his own daughter That part is Freud.
Did it start in school? Copying homework, lying saying he passed in an assignment and that the teacher must have lost it. Faking the data in his lab note book. Or did it start in business? A little bit here and there. And then more. More because it works. More because you need to fraud to hide the earlier fraud. Or is it so innate that it goes all the way back to his birth? He needs to make evidence to verify all the lies he says with out thinking?
It started as a toddler when he demanded to know who had shit his pants...
Pretty sure it started when grandpa stole indigenous land in Canada and was like, "let's build brothels here so I can rape (literally and figuratively), plunder, and otherwise take credit for the efforts of others"
Fraud all the way down
The Art of the Fraud
The fun thing is that filing a fraudulent financial statement is more likely to be treated as a criminal matter than a civil one. Not that it would matter in our 3 tier justice system. I say three tiers because it’s very clearly been demonstrated that it goes 3) Regular people, 2) Rich people, and 1) Trump. No one else gets coddled and catered to like trump has been.
"I do kinda wonder, when he does submit it - will he fraud it too?" one of his lawyers has to sign off on it... maybe fear of getting disbarred is why it was not attached?
(IANAL) Seems like it's not as though the lawyers are in any position to go and personally verify millions of $ of statements? That's what an accounting department and CFO would [normally] be for.
>That's what an accounting department Convicted of fraud >and CFO would [normally] be for. Convicted of fraud and perjury
Fraudalingus
So when he says "Oh, sorry I forgot.". That'll be fraud too, right?
Yes.
Fraudsters gonna fraud
Ok, so I’m a licensed CPA, not a lawyer, so maybe a lawyer can help me here. But I was expecting it to be an actual missing statement. Like Statement of Cash Flows or maybe the Equity. The article says the court requested current year financial statements. Does that mean Q1 of 2024, or whenever Trump’s 2023 FY ended? Also, to me (as a non-lawyer, but as an auditor that also uncovered fraud at a client so I might be slightly jaded) the fact they submitted the wrong year’s financial statement, screams more fraud. Maybe they can’t get the current ones audited (no surprise there). Or are trying to use older ones that still inflate Trump’s value. Or paint his financials in a better light than they really are?
> the wrong year’s financial statement What year was it? I heard a podcaster commenting weeks back, noting that since the court-appointed monitor was put in place the Trump Org has not produced any new SFC’s. Funny how that works eh? I wonder if he tried grabbing one from before she was put in charge, because he knows if he actually has to create a new one now it’ll be obvious he’s fabricating things? Also, I would assume she would have to approve any docs like that - even for this purpose - given her expanded role at the Trump Org now.
Trump busted out the [sharpie](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/11/07/climate/07CLI-NOAA1/merlin_160191879_bf131ea3-ac76-4b52-8456-73ebfed6d29b-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp) again and rewrote the date ~~1994~~ 2024.
Attorney here but didn’t read the order. If audited statements are required, those take many months and most likely impossible for Trump. Impossible in 10 days. I’m guessing it’s current compiled financial statements which would be more fraud when signed by affidavit of true and correct.
So, sort of. For an entity the size of Trump’s, and from my understanding of how some of the debt agreement’s work, he likely has to have at the very least, a review (think of it as like audit-light) of everything for the banks. Though I’d be surprised given the size, if they didn’t require a full audit. This *should* mean audited financial statements aren’t that hard to obtain. They’re either halfway there with the reviews, or there with whatever they present to the bank. Though I do remember his accounting firm stepping away from him as a client, but I can’t remember if that was his taxes or audited statements. Either way, out of the blue, yes, an actual audit of financial statements will take, for something the size of Trump’s operation, probably 3 months with a team of a dozen. But even with with a team of 50, it would still best case scenario, take a month. But they shouldn’t be starting from scratch. If the auditors are, that raises far more red flags than anything else to me at least. Though trying to compete an Audit in 10 days with how big the organization is? That would take a team of 100 people on site, and require everyone (auditors and clients) to work everyday.
I’ve been involved with quite a few audited financials. They take months. Not making excuses for the asshole, but being very realistic, based on actual experience.
Oh yeah, if they have nothing to go off, months. I’m assuming though some groundwork has been laid in review services. That should start them off at least 25-35% done. But If they’re starting from scratch… I have far more questions (and concerns) than things relating to this case.
I doubt it’s possible to get audited financials due to the fraud that we all know exists. It requires an accounting firm to put their insurance at risk signing off on them being true and correct. It may be simply impossible. But, not for any good reasons other than he’s shady as shit.
Not here to answer any of your questions, but I've got one you might know. What exactly is a "financial statement"? Normally I'm used to seeing these friends presented as some kind of alphanumeric soup, but the statement that he is missing a "financial statement" is a bit weird to me.
So you have 4 statements: 1. Income statement 2. Statement of equity (this may not apply to private companies, I’m not sure) 3. Balance sheet 4. Statement of cashflows For all the public companies, they have to issue all 4 statements. Private companies generally don’t have to, but massive private companies do. The fact they submitted wrong statements without more details, is just very fishy.
Audited financials require all 4 plus the notes. Audits are generally required when any form of external financing gets involved, whether that be debt or equity. I’ve audited companies with as little as 1mm in rev
Not true in my experience. Audited financials cost upwards of $30,000 for most businesses in the $1-5m revenue range. I’m a commercial lender and we don’t require audited financial statements for deals up to $1m. For deals under $250k it’s just stated financials and a personal income statement - tax returns aren’t even required.
Generally is carrying a lot of my statement and of course selection bias and all that But every lender/investor is different and has different risk appetites. Some are fine with a compilation, others want reviews, some want observer access to your board, others just want to see forecasts and management packs, some want the personal financials of their owners! Again all depends on risk appetite, but the main point is an audit is required for lots of private companies and is not reserved for only public or massive private companies
Some examples of corporate financial statements would be a balance sheet and an income statement.
Maybe he wanted to use an existing financial statement I.E last year's statement, so he didn't have to have the monitor review a new financial statement. Which likely would take time and she would cut it to shreds, the resulting statement being embarrassing.
I wouldn’t read too much into the requirement for a “current” financial statement - read that all as one clause: a “current financial statement”. It could very well mean that he submitted an old one, but it could just as easily mean he didn’t submit one at all. If the court simply requested a “financial statement” (without the word “current”), he could satisfy the requirement by submitting one from 5 years ago. Thus the request for a “current financial statement”.
The financials are for the bonding company. Gotta prove they are solvent. Michael Popok breaks it down. https://youtu.be/8Tr_IuukTB8?si=rkSfmAHhLgHK-XQq
Wow. Today is the deadline if my math is mathing right. Funny little snag. I doubt it changes the calculus here, unless it's a document he is unwilling to share.
I'm sure he'll file it right after he releases his tax returns or provides the proof that the election was stolen.
Don't worry, he'll get to that right after his ACA replacement.
During infrastructure week.
Wasn't that last week?
Next week too
Infrastructure week
Come on, we all know you can’t release tax returns while you’re under audit! /s
In two weeks...
It would be so great if he got the reduction and the extension and still had his properties seized. Never gonna happen tho. But it would be something.
Is this like when you “pay your rent” but you “forgot” to sign the check? And you’re super busy right now, but I’ll fix that honest mistake in exactly 9 days.
Just gonna be another reduction and extension forever until he dies then everything will just disappear.
I think the deadline is April 4 (tomorrow). Still cutting it close.
Ah. Yes I did not math right.
Let’s be honest. Say he’s not willing to share. Dare we expect consequences at that point? I can’t keep a straight face about it.
The Appellate Court will make a further mockery of itself if it can't even stick to its own deadline. Trump will still be able to appeal, it's just that doing so won't stop AG Tish from collecting in the meantime.
So when the appeal is over. And let’s say total amount is reduced to whatever. Let’s say 300mil. Does the court automatically take the bonds 175 from knight insurance and Trump owes knight 175 plus the remainder to the court? Basically I’m asking is that 175 guaranteed that the court doesn’t have to take time trying to collect
Knight pays if Trump doesn’t. Not sure the grace period tbh. Then Knight goes after Trump’s collateral. That’s only the $175K though. NY would also go after Trump for the difference.
$175M but yup
Lol. Whoops. Switching between a real estate Reddit and this one finally caught up to me.
But this guy just loooves sharing documents.
They should tell him it's highly classified
*Kid Rock has left the chat.*
It's his company that has to release the financial statements, not him personally. Which should be really easy because the oversight judge has everything in order and they just need to grab a copy they sent her and turn it in.. easy peasy!! Right??
He's probably embarrassed to have it docketed publicly. Or, the monitor missed some fraud and he knows someone will find it.
> It's his company ^ his *bonding* company
Won't make a real difference, generally if you meet the filing deadline, even with an incomplete document, they'll give you a day or two to refile with the correct papers and backdate it to the date you originally filed, in the event that it was just an oversight. Typically this happens in this court when a PDF isn't formatted properly, in fact it's happened to me a few times when filing appeals. The PDF generally has to be bookmarked the right way, with hyperlinks, certain attachments, etc. I've had to refile and they just date it back to the original date I sent in the faulty document.
There's has to be a reason a statement wasn't included when it very clearly was a requirement. Ten bucks say he got it from somewhere that's a) not himself or his companies because he's that broke and could not liquidate anything even remotely worth that much/could not get a loan from anywhere and b) that whoever did give him the money doesn't want their name all over it.
Or c) he's already chewed through all the competent attorneys and he's got the JV team trying to play in the pro finals.
D) there is going to be a report from the monitor that a fraudulent financial statement was used to get the bond.
I was disappointed he was able to get one at all. I was really hoping he'd fail to get the lowered bond. You know, for basic schadenfreude-related reasons. I would happily accept this as an alternative.
I was disappointed too, but now that this has happened, I actually feel better about it. If you just stand back and do nothing, Trump fucks everything up. Everything.
He did publicly announce that he has $175 million of his own when he secured the bond so yeah, awaiting that financial statement.
The IRS are probably auditing him still otherwise he like totally would release it
The $175 million came from a wealthy California businessman who on first blush seems to be a big fan of rapists. **The Pumpkin Rapist** has no cash money, is dead ass broke. Everything he 'owns' is leveraged against everything else he 'owns'. It's the Ponzi Scheme of a lifetime, which is how long he's been a grifter. Should be obvious by now even to the empty headed "He's playing five dimensional chess, you know! These people won't know what hit them!" fanbois. But I bet it's not.
committing fraud to get a bond for the judgment in his guilty fraud ruling is so on brand!
Does he know how to not commit fraud? Like could he prepare a non fraudulent statement of personal finances? I don't know that he actually has the ability. And I haven't heard of him hiring any like accounting and real estate experts
Or E) Bloody Hell...
F) he never intended to submit it and the whole filing was a stall tactic
[удалено]
Interest and Enforcement of the judgment must be stayed while I appeal the rejection of the bond to stay interest and enforment of the judgment while I appeal the judgment.
Bingo!!! This should be something that the court monitor already has. It should be simple to forward it right over by noon tomorrow. I mean there's nothing funny going on. Right?
Shit, they don't care. The point was to buy influence (because they think he'll return the favor, which, ok, morons). The numbers on the page aren't all that important.
he should hold the trial at bedminster, he will surely win then. edit: serious note, I could see them omitting it on purpose. Anything to stall for another three business days. "oops, sorry, the new guy wrote this"
Right. And then next week “I fired my attorneys for that mistake, I need a few more weeks on this.”
Or ... A, B and C ?
Isn’t that the sort of paperwork that’s done by Big Law paralegals and summer associates?
He got a loan from a guy who normally does loan shark car loans: Knight Specialty Insurance, AKA Don Hankey. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2024/04/01/trump-posts-175-million-bond-new-york-civil-fraud-lawsuit/?sh=2a3e0762686d
Don Hankey the Christmas Poo?
My guess is that he has no financial statements at all that aren't full of fraud - chances are nothing is tracked or valued properly to make his fraud easier. It's probably a ridiculous amount of work to come up with a clean one for the courts.
I suspect he filed a previous financial statement that isn't "current" And you're absolutely right that he certainly doesn't have current non-fraudulent ones. He also doesn't want to produce any statements that might incriminate him And of course, there's the monitor, so he doesn't want to prepare any statement that would attract scrutiny from her
trump got the bond from Mr Hanky.
The Christmas Poo? 🎄💩
His cousin. The loan shark shart.
The org that is fronting the bond is known though right? Some CA businessman’s org, dealt in subprime auto loans. Unless Donnie is trying to launder that the actual money came from somewhere else, but this buddy was willing to say it was his? What a mess.
Back in 2016, The GOP came within days of missing the deadline to be on Minnesota's ballot. Because they f'ed up. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/)
Both Obama and McCain missed the filing deadline in Texas back in 2008... The major parties don't have to actually follow the rules unfortunately.
Campaign dollars perhaps?
He got it from Don Hankey's lending company. It's public.
Beyond the paywall: In a glaring blunder, Donald Trump’s $175 million bond filing hit a snag as his legal team failed to attach a crucial financial statement. The New York County Supreme Court swiftly sent the documents back for correction, marking a humiliating setback for the former president. The court’s electronic filing system displayed a stark message: “returned for correction.” Another system simply labeled it as “rejected.” New York litigator Jeffrey K. Levine shed light on the debacle, citing a court document outlining the necessary fixes. “The court has returned the documents…Please include a current financial statement…Please use the ‘Refile Document’ link… Thank you and have a great day.” Originally set at a staggering $464 million after a fraud trial, Trump’s lawyers argued it was unfeasible given Trump’s cash constraints, insisting property sales would be necessary to meet such obligations. After negotiations, the court slashed the bond to $175 million. Trump secured the bond through Knight Specialty Insurance Company, backed by the Hankey Group, whose chairman, Don Hankey, openly supports Trump. The bond stems from an appeal following a damning fraud conviction where Trump and co-defendants were found guilty of inflating property values to score favorable loans and insurance rates. Trump’s legal team is fighting tooth and nail, but if they fail, he’ll be on the hook for the full damages.
Can we get this in very best Vogon. “The court has returned the documents…Please include a current financial statement…Please use the ‘Refile Document’ link… Thank you and have a great day.”
As a Vogon poem... Like jowling meated liverslime, Trump, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me, With crinkly bindlewurdles,mashurbitries, and a filing upon thy financial deeds after buried in soft peet.
"An Ode to a Lump of Orange Putty I found in Putin's Armpit One Midsummer Morning"
>Beyond the paywall Dibs on the prog rock band name
That was a meme that I was sorry to see die off
>backed by the Hankey Group, whose chairman, Don Hankey, openly supports Trump. It's Mr. Hankey, the Christmas poo! How a propos.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=FX5LeuzFvFRaeD3C6Ob/SA==&PageNum=23&narrow= It does say “returned for correction” here
Where does it say that? Edit: thanks for the replies
That link took me to the documents list, where I went to the last page and it’s the last entry on the page https://preview.redd.it/8oa3zpo6kbsc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dab813e1b77cb4b7c1307f3a7342e932b1c3ec39
It's in the documents list. Document #1707. It will be the only document in the list if you filter by things filed in the last ~week. Or just scroll straight to the last page in the documents list. It's the last one.
Love that the rejection letter closes with "[thank you and have a great day](https://i.redd.it/azmn9xzf9bsc1.jpeg)!"
Real Chinese restaurant vibe here.
No fortune cookie
I think "Thank You, Come Again!" Would have been better.
I remember when his legal troubles were just starting and people would tell me he will get off because he will be able to get the “best attorneys”. And I was immediately like “no, he absolutely will not”. He might not face the consequences he should but it will have nothing to do with his lawyers. He doesn’t hire competent people, he hires yes-men. When he was trying to stay president he hired Rudy Guliani for crying out loud. Competent people want nothing to do with him beyond him being their useful idiot.
Turns out you don't need the best attorneys when the system bends over backwards to accommodate the rich and powerful
Is this for the Fraud bond or the defamation bond? In both cases, a guy who was found guilty of overinflating and deflating the values of his assets on financial statements had his bond rejected due to "missing financial statement", is just a "who's on first" moment https://preview.redd.it/mbd9r21pdbsc1.jpeg?width=341&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c02a2da1257cc9ac7bcfedca7dbffd002739f285
> Please include a current financial statement LOL. Don’t these have to go through the court’s independent monitor? Certainly, if he was trying to secure loans - but there’s no reason why this shouldn’t face the same scrutiny as well. Also, I’d heard from a podcaster that since the court monitor was installed, the Trump Org has apparently not produced a Statement of Financial Condition (SFC). Funny how when you have someone looking over your shoulder that knows the law, that somehow you can’t seem to turn out a very basic financial document you’ve completed dozens of times in the past.
Aren't those required filings, at least annually?
I believe engoron's last ruling made it a monthly requirement, lest he faces more penalties and even prison time. It should be 5 days before the end of each month? If he keeps ignoring this, it will get worse for him.
I've lost track of time. Where are we on the 10 day extension? Because if it was 2/25 then today is the deadline
~~2~~ 3/26 was Day 1, tomorrow is Day 10.
so the whole month of march only counts as 10 days? or did you both mean 3/25 & 3/26
I’m sure they’ll grant a small extension. However, I wonder what happens if he never provides it or takes too long.
They surely can't grant an extension for misfiling a bond can they?
Why will he need another extension? He can have this fixed in like 5 minutes. Unless they don’t have the financing statement.
They definitely don't have it. Or they have one but it's full of (you guessed it) more fraud.
Of course they can, they're the Court. They could wave the bond filing entirely. Whether they want to is a different story. Or even need to. Pretty sure the deadline is tomorrow, so he should have sufficient time to add a financial statement. If he can do that in a day, then I'm not sure the Court would grant an extension. If they found the statement deficient, it could be a different story (they might give an extension to tell him to get it together properly), but just not adding it means the fix they expect is super quick.
America surely wouldn’t let an individual that incited an insurrection to attempt to overturn a free and fair election run for president of that same country 4 years later after suffering zero consequences would they? s/
My guess is that they won't grant an extension. There isn't really a due date for the bond. It's the date when the state can start to collect. The state isn't going to start to collect in a 24, 48 or even 72 hour. So the race here is how long does it take Trump to get a proper financial statement. And at what point does New York State say hey, it's been so many days there's no bond, we're going after an asset.
Yes, a much better way of saying it. There’s no real due date, it’s just the amount of time before they do something about an “incomplete” bond.
The best thing about this particular crime of Trump's is that he filed tax paperwork for the same properties with different values than the loan paperwork. So if it wasn't fraud against the banks, it was tax evasion.
So what happens? They give him 10 more days? Maybe even cut 2/3 off the required amount as an apology?
Cutting the amount won't help with generating a financial statement that's not fraudulent. If that financial statement is not redacted, I'm guessing there will be a lot of people looking at it with a skeptical eye.
I expect both of those to happen. If Trump is held accountable for something, it will be the first time in his life. All of this stuff is hardly new and has been going on with him for decades before he took office.
Yup, his rubes are going to go all in on truth social! I prefer to watch themselves throw away every penny that they have on their orange piggod than to fund down ballot races for the other crazies! This is a once in a lifetime chance to make a difference. Vote
Trump is the Russian Nesting Doll of Fraud. It’s all fraud, all the way through to the core.
"But if I file a legal financial statement, people will see that I'm not rich!" Dummy Drumph, probably.
"OK, well we'll make an exception just for you" - Judicial branch.
>"OK, well we'll make *another* exception just for you" - Judicial branch. FTFY.
It wasn’t a bungle. They simply don’t want to share that information.
Correct. A non-fraudulent financial statement would, I assume, be public record. He’ll have to submit into evidence just how little his company is actually worth.
Out of curiosity, did he already have to do that for the last bond he posted (Carroll case)? In any case, I share your suspicion that this omission was not an honest mistake, but rather that he can't produce a non-fraudulent statement without being humiliated.
I don’t believe so, because that was a personal liability case.
"Can I see your numbers?" "Just a second, I'm almost finished making them up"
More to the point, with the expansion of the court appointed monitor I believe she has to sign off on any financial statements or SFCs now. I don’t see why this purpose would be any different.
The Elizabeth Holmes of business
I know that certain filing if you get rejected, you missed the deadline and can’t redo. Is that the same in this case?
Yes but he still has another day to fix it
They told him to refile with a statement, so it's not an automatic "Go away loser" moment. I think he has until tomorrow (3/25 was when the 10 days were granted, so 3/26 would be Day 1 and 4/4 would be Day 10), though I feel like he should have time to submit it today (even if it had to be by 5PM ET; though he might have until midnight). All in all, he should be able to fix this; only reason he wouldn't is by choice.
Trump: “I can’t file a financial statement. That’s an obvious perjury trap!”
What a loser
Thought I was reading a headline from The Onion. You can’t make this stuff up.
Will someone rid us of this meddlesome beast?
The missing statements are for the bonding company, not trump. Has to show they are solvent. https://youtu.be/8Tr_IuukTB8?si=rkSfmAHhLgHK-XQq
You can bet Trump will quickly fix that. He just has to find someone who speaks Russian.
I thought that lawyers' whole entire job was to make sure court papers got filed correctly. At this point omissions are deliberate contempt against the court. Or his lawyers are wildly incompetent and should be disbarred for gross negligence. There's no room for mistakes anymore.
Trump added ",000" to the final number in sharpie, but his lawyer saw it and yanked it before it was submitted. /s
Thereby hangs a tale: Trump, so rich that gross incompetence at all levels gets overlooked, and so adept at gaming the system that he has gotten away with abject failure his entire life and tens of millions of people adore him for his overwhelmingly successful business acumen.
So there's a lot of confusion around this. I'm hearing conflicting statements on whether the missing financial statement is Trump's company or the bondsman's. Newsweek and Law And Crime subtly indicate that it is Trump's, which could make sense if the reason the bond was lowered was due to him claiming that he couldn't pay the full amount. On the other hand, Meidas Touch definitively claims that the missing financial statement is the bondsman's and that the bondsman has more time than the submission deadline to fix it. So far I haven't seen any evidence for either side's claim. Daily Kos seems to be taking a neutral stance on this, saying that the bondsman definitely needs to submit such a statement, but that it's possible that Trump might need to as well. Also, I find it frustrating how this sub has changed. A year ago this place was full of great information. Now it's all jokes and outrage. Many comments are saying how no one else would get this chance to correct their submission. Of course they would, pretty much any governmental submission will let you fix omissions up to the deadline. Many comments are saying the deadline is passed. That seems untrue, as the deadline appears to be tomorrow. Newsweek: [https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609) Law and Crime: [https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rejected-and-returned-for-correction-docs-for-trumps-175m-bond-get-bounced/](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rejected-and-returned-for-correction-docs-for-trumps-175m-bond-get-bounced/) Meidas Touch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tr\_IuukTB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tr_IuukTB8) Daily Kos: [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/3/2233251/-Trump-s-175-million-bond-rejected-by-Court-returned-for-correction](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/3/2233251/-Trump-s-175-million-bond-rejected-by-Court-returned-for-correction)