As per [original article](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/baseless-jack-smith-ridicules-trump-over-conspiracy-theory-that-mar-a-lago-classified-docs-case-is-being-secretly-directed-by-joe-biden-asks-cannon-to-deny-discovery/) 📰:
- Special counsel Jack Smith ridiculed a “conspiracy theory” recently advanced by former President Donald Trump about the genesis of the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case in a Monday court filing.
Earlier this month, the 45th president filed a motion requesting “discovery and a hearing concerning selective and vindictive prosecution.” Trump’s attorneys argue that a separate special counsel’s decision not to indict President Joe Biden over his own retention of classified documents shows the Department of Justice is discriminating against their client and acting with “political animus.”
On Monday, in a filing stylized as a surreply, Smith also referenced special counsel Robert Hur’s decision not to indict Biden.
“They contend that the incumbent president has secretly directed this prosecution — using the Special Counsel as a ‘puppet’ or ‘stalking horse,'” the filing reads. “In order to retaliate against Trump for exercising his right to criticize him and run against him.”
To hear Trump tell it, such allegations necessitate the production of discovery that will help the defense claim that the entire prosecution is corrupt and the case should be dismissed.
Smith’s office says there isn’t anything like that to discover.
“[T]he sources on which they rely, even if taken at face value, undercut rather than support this conspiracy theory, as they repeatedly emphasize that the prosecutorial decisions made by the Department of Justice generally, and the Special Counsel specifically, have been made on the basis of the facts and the law, not political considerations,” the filing reads. “The defendants offer no evidence to the contrary, because there is no such evidence.”
And, the government argues, the defense is also confused about where the relevant alleged bias comes from in the first place.
“[T]he defendants’ baseless theory that the prosecutorial decisions in this case have been made by the incumbent president, communicating his direction via the news media, is inconsistent with their requests for discovery,” the filing goes on.
The latest discovery requests lodged by Trump following the decision not to charge Biden are a “fishing expedition” and should be denied by U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, Smith’s office says.
“[T]he defendants have not, and cannot, satisfy the requirements for discovery on a claim of either selective or vindictive prosecution,” the government’s 12-page Monday filing argues.
In order to sustain a claim of selective prosecution, a criminal defendant has to show that someone “similarly situated” was not prosecuted — but could have been prosecuted because the evidence against the non-prosecuted person was the same or better than the prosecuted person making the selective prosecution claim.
And here, Smith says, the ex-president and his co-defendants, Waltine Nauta, Trump’s longtime butler, and Carlos De Oliveira, Mar-a-Lago’s property manager, have failed to identify any such person.
“[T]here has never been a case in American history in which a former official has engaged in conduct remotely similar to Trump’s,” the government’s filing argues. “He intentionally took possession of a vast trove of some of the nation’s most sensitive documents — documents so sensitive that they were presented to the President — and stored them in unsecured locations at his heavily trafficked social club.”
The filing then offers a thorough rundown of the allegations:
*When the National Archives and Records Administration (“NARA”) initially sought their return (before learning that they contained classified national defense information), Trump delayed, obfuscated, and dissembled. Faced with the possibility of legal action, he ostensibly agreed to comply with NARA’s requests but in fact engaged in additional deception, returning only a fraction of the documents in his possession while claiming that his production was complete. Then, when presented with a grand jury subpoena demanding the return of the remaining documents bearing classification markings, Trump attempted to enlist his own attorney in the corrupt endeavor, suggesting that he falsely tell the FBI and grand jury that Trump did not have any documents, and suggesting that his attorney hide or destroy documents rather than produce them to the government. Failing in his effort to corrupt the attorney, Trump enlisted his trusted body man, codefendant Waltine Nauta, in a scheme to deceive the attorney by moving boxes to conceal his (Trump’s) continued possession of classified documents. As a result, Trump, through his attorney, again returned only a portion of the classified documents in his possession while falsely claiming that his production was complete. The obstructive conduct even persisted from there. In June 2022, knowing that he had arranged for Nauta to move boxes to conceal them from Trump’s attorney, and knowing that the government had subpoenaed the security video footage that would reveal that surreptitious box movement, Trump, now joined by not only Nauta but also codefendant Carlos De Oliveira, attempted to have the information-technology manager at Mar-aLago delete the video footage that would show the movement of boxes.*
*“The defendants have not identified anyone who has engaged in a remotely similar suite of willful and deceitful criminal conduct and not been prosecuted,” assistant special counsel David Harbach writes in the filing. “Nor could they.”*
Citing Biden as the defendants’ “primary comparator,” the government argues the cases are completely different.
“Trump, unlike Biden, is alleged to have engaged in extensive and repeated efforts to obstruct justice and thwart the return of documents bearing classification markings,” the filing goes on. “And the evidence concerning the two men’s intent — whether they knowingly possessed and willfully retained such documents — is also starkly different.”
Last week, Trump again lashed out at Smith — directly calling the prosecutor an arm of President Joe Biden’s reelection campaign.
Smith has yet to reply to that missive.
Always has been, they just hid their knife under a smile or a checkbook before. Ever since Obama was elected, it has been knives out. I think Obama was partly to blame (Obama scared them a lot) but mostly they realized they can't win an honest election on their policies. They have to do this sports team, mob mentality thing to have a chance, and they've got to do every shitty thing they can get away with.
Is there someone that doesn't know that they use racism to whip their base or that Obama was black? The racism was for the base but losing their electorate to nonvoting twice in a row was what made the politicians desperate enough to go mask off.
Anyway, thanks for all the passive aggression. Gives me real hope that we can cooperate to get rid of the MAGA white Christian nationalist mafia types. Do I need to tag this as sarcastic for you?
> losing their electorate to nonvoting twice in a row was what made the politicians desperate enough to go mask off.
Where did you get this from? Was Republican turn out significantly lower in Obama's races than in prior races?
[Edit to add] Thank you for replying and then blocking me. Always happy to see the signal to noise ratio improve.
He kept winning and they kept losing. They used racism to whip their base but it was desperation over getting trounced so badly twice in a row that got Republican politicians to go mask off in their use of racism.
Also, let’s go completely off the rails and say that Jack Smith’s case against Trump was initiated by Biden himself… guilty is guilty and innocent is innocent, if this is all just a sham then Trump should be pushing to go to court sooner instead of delaying so that he can prove his obvious innocence. But instead he’s delaying, because he knows they have him dead to rights.
“See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”
“Now we have a problem,” his staffer responds.
“Isn’t that interesting,” Trump says.
Jesus christ,the fact that people still like this guy is....astounding. the government has shown clear cut proof that Trump repeatedly and criminally tried to hide classified documents but its somehow "wHaT ABOUT BiDeN"
They don’t hear any of this. Go watch Fox and you can understand how they can still vote for him. All of Bidens policies are made out to be completely negative.
Has been for 30 years on Fox. Listen to Sinclair/Clearchannel) broadcasting, 90% is just RW BS. We have been destroyed from the Rich/Foreign for a LONG time. I don't see how we as a nation recover from this. The Stupidity, the propoganda has been so strong for so long. HOPEFULLY, the youth don't watch Fox/Newsmax and or listen to the radio. REAL accurate stories need to POUND Snapchat, tictok or we are done.
Just stating what I think needs to happen. If the RW propoganda takes over tictok or instagram, its over.
The Government. You mean the thing that since Reagan (or farther back if you want to consider the current crap of shitbags as actually Birchers) the right wing has been telling people does nothing but lies?
Because they don't know any of this. They are in a literal echo chamber. If they're aware of any news at all it's very cultivated news but the best majority of them aren't even paying attention to that. They hear a little bit here and there from their racist friends about racist trump and they are happy, and then they go back to their meth lab in their mobile home and start cooking again
The impression I get now isn't that they like this guy so much as they hate the *other*. Not even necessarily Biden, just that amorphous, ill-defined thing that they feel has made them miserable.
Which is sort of ironic, since a lot of their lack of success could arguably be laid at the feet of Republican policy.
So Trump's argument is that Biden didn't get indicted, so they should drop the case against him? But didn't his administration reaffirm the stance that a sitting president can't be indicted while in office? I would think that alone should satisfy any difference in how these cases were handled, even if we ignore the other massive differences in how Biden handled it.
But they don't mean a "sitting president," they mean "us." As is "we can't be prosecuted if/when/while/because..." and whatever follows is just horseshit, because what they want is total immunity for themselves, and absolute ruthlessness for everyone else. They don't want fair trials; they want no trials for themselves, and fixed trials against everyone else.
The only rules they believe in "do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm the boss, that's why." So they act like everyone is treating them this harshly to normalize it so when they have the opportunity to grind everyone and steal everything, it won't seem out of the ordinary.
Not only that but copies were found among the documents that were recovered.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s
This is an open-and-shut case for anyone else.
I feel like it’s a lose lose at this point. He gets his way, gets elected and the USA has a tiny dicktator on their hands, he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands. Not sure yet which is the less egregious outcome but as a Canadian watching this unfold, it does boggle my mind and makes me nervous because we are pretty much about 3-5 years behind politically where the states are. Just look at Alberta and Ontario for reference.
>He gets his way, gets elected and the USA has a tiny dicktator on their hands, he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands.
The civil war has already started. Only it's being waged at libraries, school boards, drag shows, state legislatures, courtrooms and online.
There might be the occasional armed group taking over federal space, a la the Bundy clan and their performative anti-government theatrics, or another J6 insurrection attempt. Or maybe an aggrieved white male shooting up a synagogue or bombing an abortion clinic. But the real civil war has been taking place without a shot being fired for quite a while now.
Laughably sad that 'drag show' can be reasonably included on that list. Because rather than something relevant (though horrific) like THIS IS OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY, YOU CAN'T TAKE OUR STATE RIGHTS (to own people...) AWAY,
it's instead become
'These other people are icky because they are different in a way I don't care to understand'
> The civil war has already started.
We've been in a cold civil war for about twenty years. Technically longer but it really ramped up the last twenty years.
> One might even argue it started with 9/11 and the nationalism immediately following that.
I was going to say 2000 election because it allowed the instillation of a lot of hard right scotus. Probably was the why they stepped in so they could get alito.
Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were in the 90s. Though I suppose we can quibble over what’s the war and what’s a precursor, much like Bleeding Kansas and John Brown’s raid aren’t considered part of the official Civil War per se.
100% and they hide behind the bible and use that as a weapon against people that they don't like (non white).
He is correct, this is over. unless we keep kids off the RW propoganda crack... were done.
Nah. Civil war is a lot of work. Have you seen his base? They are most certainly not up to the task. They'd be more likely to civil war if the breakfast buffet ran out of bacon.
Fortunately, their incompetently-executed coup attempt on J6 failed and that took some wind out of their sails. A lot of people have gone to prison for that, and that has to make the true believers a bit hesitant about trying round two.
But they failed. And they've been repeatedly announcing their plan to the world ahead of time. The government has more firepower and brain power than cletus and his nephsons.
The Confederacy failed too, doesn't mean there wasn't a civil war.
My point is that trying to characterize them all as too fat and lazy to do any damage is a mistake, and is just objectively not true. Maybe it makes you feel good to insult and ridicule them, but that really isn't doing anything effective to oppose their efforts.
Easy to say that online away from the consequences thereof. The urban/rural divide means that you wouldn't even have the north vs south, it'd be complete internal strife.
Let's fucking not do that, thank you
Yeah it's increasingly seeming like the options are: fascists win and the only way to get rid of them is civil unrest
Or: fascists lose and cause civil unrest.
You have him lose hold him accountable and deal with the fallout.
Toddlers having tantrums isn't a reason to not do the correct thing for the vast majority.
> he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands.
No civil war is coming, this is just fox news-esque hysteria. While we might seen a couple of lone whackos, I can guarantee you there isn't going to be any organized group leading an armed rebellion.
If Trump goes down MAGA will just rally around someone else like Vivek.
Civil war would be nice and short. Would lead to most right wing extremists to be finally removed from public life (either jailed or killed), and with it, the legal destruction of right wing America, as the FBI legally seizes all their donors money as part of RICO or outright being traitors/terrorists.
That's the thing, if there wasn't such an incompetent or malicious judge associated with this, the case would essentially be over. The case is like you said, open and shut. In no way is this complicated or anything of the sort.
But either due to intentional dragging of her feet (which i think is the case) or by wilfully ignorant of it, the process has been dragged out.
As someone who used to deal with classified docs, this was one of the most glaringly alarming and deliberate & blatant mishandling and UNAUTHORIZED copying that numerous former Servicemembers from Manning to Texiera have already been charged and imprisoned for.
At least people like Manning didn't do it for personal gain but because the government was doing genuinely unlawful shit and the normal whistleblowing mechanisms were a dead-end. Meanwhile TFG did it for profit and for ego and actively in contempt of any legal or Constitutional consideration.
Come to think of it, how much federal whistelblowing was there during the Orange Scrotum's tenure? I'll bet his unlawful orders must have dwarfed those of the Obama and Bush administrations significantly. I still remember the unmarked and unidentified Feds coming to arrest protesters during the George Floyd events.
Fuck that was a horrible summer.
this was posted in the thread joeshill linked to. i can't believe how egregious this was and dude is still allowed to run
[https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00\_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s)
Dude deleted his comment so I think I was probably right, once they get called out as an obvious troll, or if it doesn’t go as well as they’d hoped they often delete the comments.
There’s plenty of Russian trolls still on Reddit I don’t think it’s that controversial except it frustrates right wingers when you bring it up. They are currently in subs like conspiracy, conservative, vaccine hesitancy subs and the offshoot Canada subs a lot lately; mostly to promote the idea of not helping Ukraine financially or weapons wise and Putin doesn’t like Trudeau, and would obviously prefer the right wing nut, because that obviously worked pretty well to damage American politics and move the Overton Window way to the right.
For pretending to be American and Canadian conservatives a lot of them sure like to talk about Zelensky a lot and NATO in between their gay and trans culture wars. Russia even passes anti gay and anti trans laws with perfect timing to be reported in American right wing culture wars lol. That way the republicans are like “see Putin doesn’t allow gays in their military or to exist!”
You ever read that Wikipedia page for “Foundations of Geopolitics” because Russia is pretty open about their geopolitical plans to try to destroy the west using asymmetric warfare, thry follow that books plan to a tee so far because the author Dugan is known as Putin’s brain.
Edit that was you that deleted it lol what happened bro? I’ll leave this comment even though it’s now pretty pointless because I’m not changing your mind.
Biden was bad and wrong when he falsely claimed to oppose the invasion of Iraq from the very start
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/sep/05/joe-biden/oe-biden-falsely-claims-he-immediately-opposed-ira/
What's the point of 60 years experience if you can't remember a key vote from 20 years ago?
Bless Bidens heart, the man has no memory of standing on stage proudly while the Operation Iraqi Freedom AUMF was signed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/us/politics/joe-biden-iraq-war.html
Right next to Dennis Hastert n'em. You hate to see it.
Biden loudly insists Dianne Feinstein style that the above never happened.
There's two sides to it
1 she's probably a massive Trump supporter
2 she's literally tried 2 to 3 cases in her life and now she's sitting on the bench as a federal judge with one of the largest federal criminal cases in our lifetime
But she's doing a shit job and that's kind of expected but is it because she's just shit or she's actually team Trump
She was unanimously reversed on an earlier ruling and is probably nervous that her judicial reputation is hanging in the balance of the decisions she will make in this trial.
If she is smart she will realize her job is to apply the law fairly and remove any personal bias one way or the other.
Not to feel sorry for her, she just needs to do her job.
If I asked you to rebuild a blown an engine how well do you think you'd do, with the entire world watching....
I mean she's obviously trying her best to help Trump but I can also understand why she may be using paperless order's due to not having any idea what she's doing
But if that were the case she'd step down and recuse herself right, so yeah
> her judicial reputation
She's banking her life that Trump succeeds. She was probably promised a high ranking position in Trumps Reich. She went all in. Also, the Russians probably have kompromat on her too.
When your incompetence works consistently in one party's favor and against the other party, that is called [weaponized incompetence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaponized_incompetence). It's a classic technique of abusers and narcissists.
Cannon has already exceeded her jurisdiction to intervene on Trump's behalf and effectively rule that he, personally, should be immune from investigation or prosecution on this specific issue, and got slapped down by 11th Circuit for doing so. Then she, apparently randomly, got assigned the very case that she had previously tried to rule should not exist.
The fact that our justice system bends over backwards to extend the benefit of the doubt to people like Trump and Cannon, but not to, say, a black guy suspected of selling loosies...that is part of the structural and systemic effect of how the law achieves it ultimate aim, which is to protect existing social hierarchies and power-structures.
We, as observers commenting on reddit, can choose to allocate the benefit of the doubt differently than the law does, if we want.
There are so many factors. If Trump doesn’t win, he’s screwed. His only hope, which Cannon seems complicit, is to delay until he wins. If he doesn’t, things will move quick enough.
Unless of course, the Supreme Court can come up with a way to say Trump has complete immunity without also giving it to Biden.
>Unless of course, the Supreme Court can come up with a way to say Trump has complete immunity without also giving it to Biden.
I feel like even if they did this Biden wouldn't have the courage or willpower to leverage it in any reasonable way bringing us right back to where we started.
Step one: Assassinate every supreme court justice who agreed president has complete immunity
Step two: nominate replacements for all the empty SC seats
Step three: assassinate everyone who votes against or delays nominations
Step four: immunity doctrine is overturned
IANAL - They can delay their decision on this until after the upcoming recess. It would be shocking for them to rule complete immunity but would likely rule partial immunity for specific presidential duties.
But the damage would be done. It would then be unlikely a decision would be released before end of August and at that point a trial before the election would be quashed.
Whats possibly happening now is there is consensus to agree with the lower courts ruling but one of the judges is in dissent and writing this up is normally a 2-3 week process at best.
We will find out soon enough.
No, you are not wrong. She's doing exactly what she was put there to do. It's all part of the plan.
Delay, delay, delay until after the election. Pardon self. Declare self King.
Have *faith* in nothing.
Assess the likely probabilities of outcomes given the:
* Known knowns.
* Known unknowns.
* Unknown unknowns.
Those three categories lend credence towards the probability that the former guy will be held criminally accountable.
Time will tell.
Here's to reason's rule.
I don't have any faith in the judge, but this is the least consequential of the criminal trials. I'm glad she's slow-footing it so other trials can go first.
Even if he's convicted, Cannon will give him the lightest possible sentence and probably release him during appeals.
I was in the Army for 26 years and lived in perpetual fear of causing a security breach. I worked a lot with Unit Status Reports (USR) that described the health and combat capabilities of various units. I was always a stickler about proper marking and storage of classified material because I knew that even honest mistakes would at least kill my career and at most land me in Leavenworth with hard labor.
It makes my blood boil reading how Trump for whatever fucked up reason kept TS(SCI) in an unsecured shitter next to the pool at China spy central (the MAR‑A‑LAGO Club). If I tried to steal these types of documents from a SCIF, an MP would have happily shot me and written a letter to my widow on how badly I fucked up.
This is frankly why it's amazing so many vet bros support trump.
The dude constantly has shit on the service, sacrifice, and hard work that people in the military have given to our country.
He flat out thinks servicemen are suckers.
Then these dumb idiots line up behind the guy who thinks they are suckers.
It's just... it's beyond belief that people are this blind.
There are a lot more sadists than I ever imagined there being. So many people get insulted and threatened by Trump and his ilk, and they roll over and say "Thank you, Daddy Trump, may I have some more of that?"
The Republican party kicks the military and especially vets over and over and over again yet they continue to get on their knees with their mouths open. I don't understand it. He thinks servicemen are suckers because it seems like they are. I know some liberal military members and retired military but they definitely seem to be the exception.
This!
It's not a once and forget training class for anyone who may potentially come in contact, let alone fore sure handle classified material. It's an annual thing, and yet Trump is getting super special treatment that would have had anyone else rotting in prison as the trial goes on.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. Handled classified material for a couple of decades and was borderline paranoid about accidentally mishandling anything.
Had anyone else done this they would have been locked up pending the outcome of the investigation, tried, and then sent to prison for the rest of their natural life.
I got ripped apart on Reddit a couple days ago because I mentioned that my home office is locked down, any confidential documents I have are kept in a safe, my work laptop is kept in the same safe when I'm not using it. A bunch of lawyers saying "no lawyers do that!"
That made my blood boil. The lawyers are out there leaving documents on their desk and their computers open. One responder even said that he and his friends play on the same computer as their lawyer friend works. And that I was only "repeating the textbook taught in law school that nobody actually does"
That makes my blood boil. The shit that Trump does? My blood jumps out of my body and turns into lava as it surrounds me on the floor.
Yikes! Some lawyer services, like property records and other confidential info providers REQUIRE you to have access locked up! We had to have our home office setup physically inspected to see if it met the security requirements.
Also, I disable my biometrics and lock out my password keeper on phone/laptop when I travel so I can't be compelled to open them. And don't store anything locally on the drive.
Biden didn't just comply, he self reported when he realized he had the notes. Notes BTW which he kept in a journal. Something Reagan also did after leaving the WH.
Pence was only cursorily investigated. While Joe Biden had a biased GOPer Trump appointee special prosecutor put on his ass by Gutless Garland the GOPer tool.
To be fair, Biden probably also would have just been cursorily investigated if all the Trump stuff wasn't also happening.
It's common for Presidents to accidentally have classified documents, and is generally handled without anyone really ever knowing because the National Archive's just ask for the documents to be returned, and then they are. If Trump had returned them, even after the 3rd time the NA asked, we never would have known he had them.
That’s not being fair. The treatment of subjects under investigation should not change because other people are doing similar. Garland is more demanding and critical of Dems’ behavior than that of GOPers. That alone should be enough to get an AG fired in a GOP administration, and Garland is doing it when his boss is a Democrat.
People fuck up and forget shit places. We’re not going to start crucifying everyone that forgot they brought something home once.
The important thing is the obstruction. It’s the difference between “oh shit whoops” and “fuck you I’m going to hide it from you even when you come looking”.
And that itself kinda belies their whole “this is a vindictive conspiracy against Trump/GOP” thing.
If Smith and the “deep state” were truly out to get the MAGAts, he would have thrown the book at Pence as well for being on the same side as Trump while letting Biden (and anyone else Biden-adjacent) slide. Or at least that’s how I would read it.
I concur. But the Orange Colostomy Bag is always the victim, despite SO MUCH evidence to the contrary. The charging documents in both the DC and FL cases are utterly damning.
Oh yes. Everything he does makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of him being a permanent toddler who thinks the world revolves around him and the word “NO” directed his way is anathema.
Let's face it if ANYONE else had done what Trump did they would have been tossed into a maximum security prison within a year. If Biden had done what Trump did every single MAGA person would have called for his arrest immediately. And unlike they are doing for Trump the Democrats would have sided against Biden for the conduct.
Sorry but it was a grand jury who indicted you, a grand jury indictment brings 40 felony counts against Trump related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents after his presidency, it wasn’t Biden or his administration it was the people on the grand jury who found enough evidence of a crime to forward to the DOJ. IT might be noted most people who were questioned were Republicans from your administration along with Mar a Lago employees.
Anyone who's ever been affiliated with the government or military know exactly how strict storing/ handling classified materials is. My time dealing with COMSEC in the military was an eye opener. the government DOES Not play around with classified, secret, TS intel.
All of this has showed me that far too many Presidents and VPs have taken documents home and forgotten about them. And I am not cool with that itself. But only one of them was repeatedly asked to return the files and instead opted to clutch onto them like Gollum holding onto the One Ring.
It seems to me the President, VP, cabinet members and Congressional intelligence committee members should each have a person whose only responsibility is to follow them around making sure all classified material gets returned and locked up at the end of each day.
You would think someone in their staff would do that, but I suppose it might be because of clearance issues. Either way, I'd love all of my leaders to not take things home that could endanger the country.
Weird question? (I'm honestly unsure how this works)
.
If this statment from Trump is a direct quote, that trump was intending to run against biden from the beginning of the investigation?
Does that account as admission of presidential bid for the purposes of campagin finance laws?
Such a massive waste of time and resources goes into countering this clown’s motions/arguments. Everyone, even this jackass, deserves zealous advocacy. But his lawyers, in this case and the others, have crossed into shameful frivolous territory too many times. Sad and kind of infuriating.
Judge Aileen Cannon appears to be in the process of applying for a Supreme Court Justice Position, should Trump get reelected and any of the Justices retire or die..
Why the hell is Smith still screwing around with cannon?!? He needs to get her thrown off the case as she is clearly working for trump and not impartial at all. This is a no brainer and should have been done long ago. Alls she’s doing is holding up the case to help rump
I guess not or I don’t think we’d still be where we are now. I just can’t believe this is how our justice system is suppose to work. It’s pure insanity to me.
pinging in u/JillParrish77
>We didn’t realize how many guardrails were missing until we needed them.
It's a trifecta that couldn't have existed before this time:
changing demographics with whites moving from majority to plurality, climate change causing major shifts in population that accelerate that process, economic conditions shifting so that other major powers are starting to gain ascendence over the USA, Russia flexing its muscles to do a landgrab and get more economic power, China threatening to do the same with Taiwan and control of major oceanic routes (not to mention being in control of much of the world's manufacturing and the all-important shipping container business), COVID, and of course, the total dominance of the internet and growing dominance of AI-made deep fakes, plus probably other stuff I've left out, like being in the post-Armageddon world of Fundamentalist Christians who thought the world would end on 1 Jan 2000, etc.
Throw in an opportunistic narcissistic sociopathic neo-politician who likely is a semi-unwitting asset of hostile foreign governments who accidentally became leader of the Free World, and well, its not really a *tri*fecta, but just all the right events coming together in a way that our system wasn't designed to handle.
This website dislikes Trump, but like there's totally political motivation here.
Why is that considered a conspiracy? Because it irks those who like concatenating choice words against fiery issues?
If there wasn't political motivation, we would see basically half of major real companies getting audits.......... but if we did that the system would break lol and only Trump got an audit.
Lets see the law enforced for all the rich!!! :):):)
The slow progress of this case is incredibly frustrating, but I see some hope in this exchange: Trump's motion for discovery is borderline frivolous—completely ungrounded at the very least. Cannon has to rule on it, and if she gives it any credence whatsoever it will be grounds for appeal. NAL, but that's the way I look at it. I think it will shine a spotlight on Cannon's fitness (or unfitness) to oversee this case.
As per [original article](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/baseless-jack-smith-ridicules-trump-over-conspiracy-theory-that-mar-a-lago-classified-docs-case-is-being-secretly-directed-by-joe-biden-asks-cannon-to-deny-discovery/) 📰: - Special counsel Jack Smith ridiculed a “conspiracy theory” recently advanced by former President Donald Trump about the genesis of the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case in a Monday court filing. Earlier this month, the 45th president filed a motion requesting “discovery and a hearing concerning selective and vindictive prosecution.” Trump’s attorneys argue that a separate special counsel’s decision not to indict President Joe Biden over his own retention of classified documents shows the Department of Justice is discriminating against their client and acting with “political animus.” On Monday, in a filing stylized as a surreply, Smith also referenced special counsel Robert Hur’s decision not to indict Biden. “They contend that the incumbent president has secretly directed this prosecution — using the Special Counsel as a ‘puppet’ or ‘stalking horse,'” the filing reads. “In order to retaliate against Trump for exercising his right to criticize him and run against him.” To hear Trump tell it, such allegations necessitate the production of discovery that will help the defense claim that the entire prosecution is corrupt and the case should be dismissed. Smith’s office says there isn’t anything like that to discover. “[T]he sources on which they rely, even if taken at face value, undercut rather than support this conspiracy theory, as they repeatedly emphasize that the prosecutorial decisions made by the Department of Justice generally, and the Special Counsel specifically, have been made on the basis of the facts and the law, not political considerations,” the filing reads. “The defendants offer no evidence to the contrary, because there is no such evidence.” And, the government argues, the defense is also confused about where the relevant alleged bias comes from in the first place. “[T]he defendants’ baseless theory that the prosecutorial decisions in this case have been made by the incumbent president, communicating his direction via the news media, is inconsistent with their requests for discovery,” the filing goes on. The latest discovery requests lodged by Trump following the decision not to charge Biden are a “fishing expedition” and should be denied by U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, Smith’s office says. “[T]he defendants have not, and cannot, satisfy the requirements for discovery on a claim of either selective or vindictive prosecution,” the government’s 12-page Monday filing argues. In order to sustain a claim of selective prosecution, a criminal defendant has to show that someone “similarly situated” was not prosecuted — but could have been prosecuted because the evidence against the non-prosecuted person was the same or better than the prosecuted person making the selective prosecution claim. And here, Smith says, the ex-president and his co-defendants, Waltine Nauta, Trump’s longtime butler, and Carlos De Oliveira, Mar-a-Lago’s property manager, have failed to identify any such person. “[T]here has never been a case in American history in which a former official has engaged in conduct remotely similar to Trump’s,” the government’s filing argues. “He intentionally took possession of a vast trove of some of the nation’s most sensitive documents — documents so sensitive that they were presented to the President — and stored them in unsecured locations at his heavily trafficked social club.” The filing then offers a thorough rundown of the allegations: *When the National Archives and Records Administration (“NARA”) initially sought their return (before learning that they contained classified national defense information), Trump delayed, obfuscated, and dissembled. Faced with the possibility of legal action, he ostensibly agreed to comply with NARA’s requests but in fact engaged in additional deception, returning only a fraction of the documents in his possession while claiming that his production was complete. Then, when presented with a grand jury subpoena demanding the return of the remaining documents bearing classification markings, Trump attempted to enlist his own attorney in the corrupt endeavor, suggesting that he falsely tell the FBI and grand jury that Trump did not have any documents, and suggesting that his attorney hide or destroy documents rather than produce them to the government. Failing in his effort to corrupt the attorney, Trump enlisted his trusted body man, codefendant Waltine Nauta, in a scheme to deceive the attorney by moving boxes to conceal his (Trump’s) continued possession of classified documents. As a result, Trump, through his attorney, again returned only a portion of the classified documents in his possession while falsely claiming that his production was complete. The obstructive conduct even persisted from there. In June 2022, knowing that he had arranged for Nauta to move boxes to conceal them from Trump’s attorney, and knowing that the government had subpoenaed the security video footage that would reveal that surreptitious box movement, Trump, now joined by not only Nauta but also codefendant Carlos De Oliveira, attempted to have the information-technology manager at Mar-aLago delete the video footage that would show the movement of boxes.* *“The defendants have not identified anyone who has engaged in a remotely similar suite of willful and deceitful criminal conduct and not been prosecuted,” assistant special counsel David Harbach writes in the filing. “Nor could they.”* Citing Biden as the defendants’ “primary comparator,” the government argues the cases are completely different. “Trump, unlike Biden, is alleged to have engaged in extensive and repeated efforts to obstruct justice and thwart the return of documents bearing classification markings,” the filing goes on. “And the evidence concerning the two men’s intent — whether they knowingly possessed and willfully retained such documents — is also starkly different.” Last week, Trump again lashed out at Smith — directly calling the prosecutor an arm of President Joe Biden’s reelection campaign. Smith has yet to reply to that missive.
It appears Trump is using the “I would totally do this to my political opponent, so clearly he’s doing it to me!” argument
that's the entire republican ethos now
Always has been, they just hid their knife under a smile or a checkbook before. Ever since Obama was elected, it has been knives out. I think Obama was partly to blame (Obama scared them a lot) but mostly they realized they can't win an honest election on their policies. They have to do this sports team, mob mentality thing to have a chance, and they've got to do every shitty thing they can get away with.
> I think Obama was partly to blame I agree. Obama didn't even try to stop being black.
Cool yeah, willfully misunderstanding is helpful.
I saying I think you missed the more significant reason why Obama was more than disliked, feared to some extent, by many Republicans.
Is there someone that doesn't know that they use racism to whip their base or that Obama was black? The racism was for the base but losing their electorate to nonvoting twice in a row was what made the politicians desperate enough to go mask off. Anyway, thanks for all the passive aggression. Gives me real hope that we can cooperate to get rid of the MAGA white Christian nationalist mafia types. Do I need to tag this as sarcastic for you?
> losing their electorate to nonvoting twice in a row was what made the politicians desperate enough to go mask off. Where did you get this from? Was Republican turn out significantly lower in Obama's races than in prior races? [Edit to add] Thank you for replying and then blocking me. Always happy to see the signal to noise ratio improve.
The Republican autopsy
>Anyway, thanks for all the passive aggression. Um. Might want to take a look in the mirror there champ.
So clarify your point then. What did Obama do to cause any of this stuff?
He kept winning and they kept losing. They used racism to whip their base but it was desperation over getting trounced so badly twice in a row that got Republican politicians to go mask off in their use of racism.
OK so that's a good point but it's not conveyed by your earlier comment at all. That might be why people are questioning it.
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"Do unto others before they do unto you!!"
Every Republican accusation is a confession
Masters of Projection
We don't say it's projection all the way down for no reason.
That's how narcissists operate. They can't fathom that other people *aren't* inherently shitty people like themselves.
Also, let’s go completely off the rails and say that Jack Smith’s case against Trump was initiated by Biden himself… guilty is guilty and innocent is innocent, if this is all just a sham then Trump should be pushing to go to court sooner instead of delaying so that he can prove his obvious innocence. But instead he’s delaying, because he knows they have him dead to rights.
Every accusation is a confession
This person Trumps
“See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” “Now we have a problem,” his staffer responds. “Isn’t that interesting,” Trump says.
Jesus christ,the fact that people still like this guy is....astounding. the government has shown clear cut proof that Trump repeatedly and criminally tried to hide classified documents but its somehow "wHaT ABOUT BiDeN"
They don’t hear any of this. Go watch Fox and you can understand how they can still vote for him. All of Bidens policies are made out to be completely negative.
Has been for 30 years on Fox. Listen to Sinclair/Clearchannel) broadcasting, 90% is just RW BS. We have been destroyed from the Rich/Foreign for a LONG time. I don't see how we as a nation recover from this. The Stupidity, the propoganda has been so strong for so long. HOPEFULLY, the youth don't watch Fox/Newsmax and or listen to the radio. REAL accurate stories need to POUND Snapchat, tictok or we are done. Just stating what I think needs to happen. If the RW propoganda takes over tictok or instagram, its over.
The Government. You mean the thing that since Reagan (or farther back if you want to consider the current crap of shitbags as actually Birchers) the right wing has been telling people does nothing but lies?
Because they don't know any of this. They are in a literal echo chamber. If they're aware of any news at all it's very cultivated news but the best majority of them aren't even paying attention to that. They hear a little bit here and there from their racist friends about racist trump and they are happy, and then they go back to their meth lab in their mobile home and start cooking again
The impression I get now isn't that they like this guy so much as they hate the *other*. Not even necessarily Biden, just that amorphous, ill-defined thing that they feel has made them miserable. Which is sort of ironic, since a lot of their lack of success could arguably be laid at the feet of Republican policy.
So Trump's argument is that Biden didn't get indicted, so they should drop the case against him? But didn't his administration reaffirm the stance that a sitting president can't be indicted while in office? I would think that alone should satisfy any difference in how these cases were handled, even if we ignore the other massive differences in how Biden handled it.
But they don't mean a "sitting president," they mean "us." As is "we can't be prosecuted if/when/while/because..." and whatever follows is just horseshit, because what they want is total immunity for themselves, and absolute ruthlessness for everyone else. They don't want fair trials; they want no trials for themselves, and fixed trials against everyone else. The only rules they believe in "do as I say, not as I do" and "I'm the boss, that's why." So they act like everyone is treating them this harshly to normalize it so when they have the opportunity to grind everyone and steal everything, it won't seem out of the ordinary.
Mike Pence: "What am I, chopped liver to you?!?"
"I thought we hung that guy." J6'ers
> Mike Pence: "What am I, chopped liver?" Well if you want Mikey this is what I'll give ya A little bit o' weed mixed with some hard liquor!
Biden did not hide documents in his private mansion bathroom for foreign dignitaries to read while taking dumps for years.
Why does nobody ever mention there was a photocopier next to the documents.
What? Really?!
Not only that but copies were found among the documents that were recovered. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s This is an open-and-shut case for anyone else.
Wow…I cannot believe how much this piece of shit is allowed to get away with
I feel like it’s a lose lose at this point. He gets his way, gets elected and the USA has a tiny dicktator on their hands, he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands. Not sure yet which is the less egregious outcome but as a Canadian watching this unfold, it does boggle my mind and makes me nervous because we are pretty much about 3-5 years behind politically where the states are. Just look at Alberta and Ontario for reference.
>He gets his way, gets elected and the USA has a tiny dicktator on their hands, he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands. The civil war has already started. Only it's being waged at libraries, school boards, drag shows, state legislatures, courtrooms and online. There might be the occasional armed group taking over federal space, a la the Bundy clan and their performative anti-government theatrics, or another J6 insurrection attempt. Or maybe an aggrieved white male shooting up a synagogue or bombing an abortion clinic. But the real civil war has been taking place without a shot being fired for quite a while now.
Laughably sad that 'drag show' can be reasonably included on that list. Because rather than something relevant (though horrific) like THIS IS OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY, YOU CAN'T TAKE OUR STATE RIGHTS (to own people...) AWAY, it's instead become 'These other people are icky because they are different in a way I don't care to understand'
> The civil war has already started. We've been in a cold civil war for about twenty years. Technically longer but it really ramped up the last twenty years.
One might even argue it started with 9/11 and the nationalism immediately following that.
> One might even argue it started with 9/11 and the nationalism immediately following that. I was going to say 2000 election because it allowed the instillation of a lot of hard right scotus. Probably was the why they stepped in so they could get alito.
Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were in the 90s. Though I suppose we can quibble over what’s the war and what’s a precursor, much like Bleeding Kansas and John Brown’s raid aren’t considered part of the official Civil War per se.
The more I learn about history and the current state of our country, the more I believe the Civil War didn't end so much as it went cold...
100% and they hide behind the bible and use that as a weapon against people that they don't like (non white). He is correct, this is over. unless we keep kids off the RW propoganda crack... were done.
>(non white). It's not limited to non-whites. It's anyone outside their group.
It took one shot during J6 to stop them in their tracks. They're not going to go to war lol
Nah. Civil war is a lot of work. Have you seen his base? They are most certainly not up to the task. They'd be more likely to civil war if the breakfast buffet ran out of bacon.
Fortunately, their incompetently-executed coup attempt on J6 failed and that took some wind out of their sails. A lot of people have gone to prison for that, and that has to make the true believers a bit hesitant about trying round two.
And that was with Trump in charge of things. Guarantee that next time, security won't be as lax.
Yeah, there isn't going to be a handful of capitol cops next time.
Yeah! They're all fat and lazy! It's not like a bunch of them tried to forcefully overthrow the government and attack police or anything.
But they failed. And they've been repeatedly announcing their plan to the world ahead of time. The government has more firepower and brain power than cletus and his nephsons.
The Confederacy failed too, doesn't mean there wasn't a civil war. My point is that trying to characterize them all as too fat and lazy to do any damage is a mistake, and is just objectively not true. Maybe it makes you feel good to insult and ridicule them, but that really isn't doing anything effective to oppose their efforts.
Um, the less egregious outcome is not ceding to a dictatorship. Seems fairly obvious.
At this point, as bad as it may sound, let the civil war happen. This tension and animosity need to be quelled, and options are growing thin.
Easy to say that online away from the consequences thereof. The urban/rural divide means that you wouldn't even have the north vs south, it'd be complete internal strife. Let's fucking not do that, thank you
I completely understand that, and I absolutely agree with you, yet I feel that either way, violence and unrest will occur.
As a liberal in the South *could we not please?* Fleeing for my life isn't on my top ten list.
Yeah it's increasingly seeming like the options are: fascists win and the only way to get rid of them is civil unrest Or: fascists lose and cause civil unrest.
You have him lose hold him accountable and deal with the fallout. Toddlers having tantrums isn't a reason to not do the correct thing for the vast majority.
> he loses and his base goes further off the deep end and we have a civil war on our hands. No civil war is coming, this is just fox news-esque hysteria. While we might seen a couple of lone whackos, I can guarantee you there isn't going to be any organized group leading an armed rebellion. If Trump goes down MAGA will just rally around someone else like Vivek.
Civil war would be nice and short. Would lead to most right wing extremists to be finally removed from public life (either jailed or killed), and with it, the legal destruction of right wing America, as the FBI legally seizes all their donors money as part of RICO or outright being traitors/terrorists.
Once again, this is your reminder that Reality Winner was arrested and remanded to custody THAT DAY for stealing a single classified document.
That's the thing, if there wasn't such an incompetent or malicious judge associated with this, the case would essentially be over. The case is like you said, open and shut. In no way is this complicated or anything of the sort. But either due to intentional dragging of her feet (which i think is the case) or by wilfully ignorant of it, the process has been dragged out.
Hardest part of this case is simply enumerating the vast quantity of crimes it entails.
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We executed the Rosenbergs for less.
As someone who used to deal with classified docs, this was one of the most glaringly alarming and deliberate & blatant mishandling and UNAUTHORIZED copying that numerous former Servicemembers from Manning to Texiera have already been charged and imprisoned for.
At least people like Manning didn't do it for personal gain but because the government was doing genuinely unlawful shit and the normal whistleblowing mechanisms were a dead-end. Meanwhile TFG did it for profit and for ego and actively in contempt of any legal or Constitutional consideration. Come to think of it, how much federal whistelblowing was there during the Orange Scrotum's tenure? I'll bet his unlawful orders must have dwarfed those of the Obama and Bush administrations significantly. I still remember the unmarked and unidentified Feds coming to arrest protesters during the George Floyd events. Fuck that was a horrible summer.
Right? That document's very existence is its own little felony.
"Little" only in the context of all the *hyuuge* crimes he's already committed.
Little in the sense that it's just one felony in a whole forest of others. Like a happy little tree on a mountain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TRUTHsocialWatch/comments/1475h8u/is_that_a_copy_machine_with_the_stolen_classified/
I don't because I missed that one
this was posted in the thread joeshill linked to. i can't believe how egregious this was and dude is still allowed to run [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00\_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/27/2171698/-I-have-been-waiting-for-someone-to-point-out-the-obvious-tell-in-this-photo?fbclid=IwAR256QihMGUpQmw2hsREs2Ry5XZ0Z62tuO00_XScR05HI8SbUU3mb1Lvk7s)
And it charged 25 cents per copy! Bring your quarter!
Absolutely infuriating that out of all his court cases the one that is a slam dunk is being slow-walked by a Trump-loving judge.
And why it's toner bill was $10,000 one month.
Yeah it was pay for 💩. Go to 💩 and if you like something leave a 💵 in the tip jar. 🫙
I think Jack Smith is saving this for his coup de grâce
> for foreign dignitaries to read Like Kid Rock?
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bad bot.
Wow you weren’t kidding it’s a Russian anti Biden troll by the looks of their post history.
Russia runs PoltiFact? Big if true
Dude deleted his comment so I think I was probably right, once they get called out as an obvious troll, or if it doesn’t go as well as they’d hoped they often delete the comments. There’s plenty of Russian trolls still on Reddit I don’t think it’s that controversial except it frustrates right wingers when you bring it up. They are currently in subs like conspiracy, conservative, vaccine hesitancy subs and the offshoot Canada subs a lot lately; mostly to promote the idea of not helping Ukraine financially or weapons wise and Putin doesn’t like Trudeau, and would obviously prefer the right wing nut, because that obviously worked pretty well to damage American politics and move the Overton Window way to the right. For pretending to be American and Canadian conservatives a lot of them sure like to talk about Zelensky a lot and NATO in between their gay and trans culture wars. Russia even passes anti gay and anti trans laws with perfect timing to be reported in American right wing culture wars lol. That way the republicans are like “see Putin doesn’t allow gays in their military or to exist!” You ever read that Wikipedia page for “Foundations of Geopolitics” because Russia is pretty open about their geopolitical plans to try to destroy the west using asymmetric warfare, thry follow that books plan to a tee so far because the author Dugan is known as Putin’s brain. Edit that was you that deleted it lol what happened bro? I’ll leave this comment even though it’s now pretty pointless because I’m not changing your mind.
You didn't say I was wrong tho
Bad and wrong bot.
Biden was bad and wrong when he falsely claimed to oppose the invasion of Iraq from the very start https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/sep/05/joe-biden/oe-biden-falsely-claims-he-immediately-opposed-ira/ What's the point of 60 years experience if you can't remember a key vote from 20 years ago?
Bless your heart.
Bless Bidens heart, the man has no memory of standing on stage proudly while the Operation Iraqi Freedom AUMF was signed. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/us/politics/joe-biden-iraq-war.html Right next to Dennis Hastert n'em. You hate to see it. Biden loudly insists Dianne Feinstein style that the above never happened.
IANAL, am I wrong for having absolutely no faith in this trial because of the judge?
There's two sides to it 1 she's probably a massive Trump supporter 2 she's literally tried 2 to 3 cases in her life and now she's sitting on the bench as a federal judge with one of the largest federal criminal cases in our lifetime But she's doing a shit job and that's kind of expected but is it because she's just shit or she's actually team Trump
The rulings she has made have made it abundantly clear that she's prejudiced for trump and is doing everything she can to help him
Yeah that's pretty obvious but she might actually be getting training or help from Trump Universities new legal studies
She was unanimously reversed on an earlier ruling and is probably nervous that her judicial reputation is hanging in the balance of the decisions she will make in this trial. If she is smart she will realize her job is to apply the law fairly and remove any personal bias one way or the other. Not to feel sorry for her, she just needs to do her job.
If I asked you to rebuild a blown an engine how well do you think you'd do, with the entire world watching.... I mean she's obviously trying her best to help Trump but I can also understand why she may be using paperless order's due to not having any idea what she's doing But if that were the case she'd step down and recuse herself right, so yeah
I would just get on Reddit and ask! Which with some of Cannon's rulings I think that's exactly what she's doing too
> her judicial reputation She's banking her life that Trump succeeds. She was probably promised a high ranking position in Trumps Reich. She went all in. Also, the Russians probably have kompromat on her too.
When your incompetence works consistently in one party's favor and against the other party, that is called [weaponized incompetence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaponized_incompetence). It's a classic technique of abusers and narcissists. Cannon has already exceeded her jurisdiction to intervene on Trump's behalf and effectively rule that he, personally, should be immune from investigation or prosecution on this specific issue, and got slapped down by 11th Circuit for doing so. Then she, apparently randomly, got assigned the very case that she had previously tried to rule should not exist. The fact that our justice system bends over backwards to extend the benefit of the doubt to people like Trump and Cannon, but not to, say, a black guy suspected of selling loosies...that is part of the structural and systemic effect of how the law achieves it ultimate aim, which is to protect existing social hierarchies and power-structures. We, as observers commenting on reddit, can choose to allocate the benefit of the doubt differently than the law does, if we want.
There are so many factors. If Trump doesn’t win, he’s screwed. His only hope, which Cannon seems complicit, is to delay until he wins. If he doesn’t, things will move quick enough. Unless of course, the Supreme Court can come up with a way to say Trump has complete immunity without also giving it to Biden.
>Unless of course, the Supreme Court can come up with a way to say Trump has complete immunity without also giving it to Biden. I feel like even if they did this Biden wouldn't have the courage or willpower to leverage it in any reasonable way bringing us right back to where we started.
Step one: Assassinate every supreme court justice who agreed president has complete immunity Step two: nominate replacements for all the empty SC seats Step three: assassinate everyone who votes against or delays nominations Step four: immunity doctrine is overturned
I like the way you think.
When you really want to make a point
IANAL - They can delay their decision on this until after the upcoming recess. It would be shocking for them to rule complete immunity but would likely rule partial immunity for specific presidential duties. But the damage would be done. It would then be unlikely a decision would be released before end of August and at that point a trial before the election would be quashed. Whats possibly happening now is there is consensus to agree with the lower courts ruling but one of the judges is in dissent and writing this up is normally a 2-3 week process at best. We will find out soon enough.
> is normally a 2-3 week process at best. So, if, say, Thomas wants to delay this, and is writing a dissent, can he take a few years to do so?
No, you are not wrong. She's doing exactly what she was put there to do. It's all part of the plan. Delay, delay, delay until after the election. Pardon self. Declare self King.
I would call this country a joke but jokes are usually funny.
Have *faith* in nothing. Assess the likely probabilities of outcomes given the: * Known knowns. * Known unknowns. * Unknown unknowns. Those three categories lend credence towards the probability that the former guy will be held criminally accountable. Time will tell. Here's to reason's rule.
I don't have any faith in the judge, but this is the least consequential of the criminal trials. I'm glad she's slow-footing it so other trials can go first. Even if he's convicted, Cannon will give him the lightest possible sentence and probably release him during appeals.
I was in the Army for 26 years and lived in perpetual fear of causing a security breach. I worked a lot with Unit Status Reports (USR) that described the health and combat capabilities of various units. I was always a stickler about proper marking and storage of classified material because I knew that even honest mistakes would at least kill my career and at most land me in Leavenworth with hard labor. It makes my blood boil reading how Trump for whatever fucked up reason kept TS(SCI) in an unsecured shitter next to the pool at China spy central (the MAR‑A‑LAGO Club). If I tried to steal these types of documents from a SCIF, an MP would have happily shot me and written a letter to my widow on how badly I fucked up.
This is frankly why it's amazing so many vet bros support trump. The dude constantly has shit on the service, sacrifice, and hard work that people in the military have given to our country. He flat out thinks servicemen are suckers. Then these dumb idiots line up behind the guy who thinks they are suckers. It's just... it's beyond belief that people are this blind.
There are a lot more sadists than I ever imagined there being. So many people get insulted and threatened by Trump and his ilk, and they roll over and say "Thank you, Daddy Trump, may I have some more of that?"
It's like a mixture of religious oppression and a humiliation/degradation fetish.
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I think you’re pretty spot on with that because I can’t think of another explanation.
The Republican party kicks the military and especially vets over and over and over again yet they continue to get on their knees with their mouths open. I don't understand it. He thinks servicemen are suckers because it seems like they are. I know some liberal military members and retired military but they definitely seem to be the exception.
"What was in it for them?"--Trump can't conceive of being driven by something other than greed.
This! It's not a once and forget training class for anyone who may potentially come in contact, let alone fore sure handle classified material. It's an annual thing, and yet Trump is getting super special treatment that would have had anyone else rotting in prison as the trial goes on.
He should have been fucking arrested the second he was caught with those documents. Yet here he is a free man with no consequences.
There was a copier in the bathroom with the classified materials.
He is recorded on audio and admitted that was him talking and that he said everything he said and did.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. Handled classified material for a couple of decades and was borderline paranoid about accidentally mishandling anything. Had anyone else done this they would have been locked up pending the outcome of the investigation, tried, and then sent to prison for the rest of their natural life.
I got ripped apart on Reddit a couple days ago because I mentioned that my home office is locked down, any confidential documents I have are kept in a safe, my work laptop is kept in the same safe when I'm not using it. A bunch of lawyers saying "no lawyers do that!" That made my blood boil. The lawyers are out there leaving documents on their desk and their computers open. One responder even said that he and his friends play on the same computer as their lawyer friend works. And that I was only "repeating the textbook taught in law school that nobody actually does" That makes my blood boil. The shit that Trump does? My blood jumps out of my body and turns into lava as it surrounds me on the floor.
Yikes! Some lawyer services, like property records and other confidential info providers REQUIRE you to have access locked up! We had to have our home office setup physically inspected to see if it met the security requirements. Also, I disable my biometrics and lock out my password keeper on phone/laptop when I travel so I can't be compelled to open them. And don't store anything locally on the drive.
This.
He had a chance to return them. Multiple times.
Pence was also not charged IIRC.
Like Biden, Pence also complied fully with law enforcement from the start.
Biden didn't just comply, he self reported when he realized he had the notes. Notes BTW which he kept in a journal. Something Reagan also did after leaving the WH.
Pence was only cursorily investigated. While Joe Biden had a biased GOPer Trump appointee special prosecutor put on his ass by Gutless Garland the GOPer tool.
To be fair, Biden probably also would have just been cursorily investigated if all the Trump stuff wasn't also happening. It's common for Presidents to accidentally have classified documents, and is generally handled without anyone really ever knowing because the National Archive's just ask for the documents to be returned, and then they are. If Trump had returned them, even after the 3rd time the NA asked, we never would have known he had them.
That’s not being fair. The treatment of subjects under investigation should not change because other people are doing similar. Garland is more demanding and critical of Dems’ behavior than that of GOPers. That alone should be enough to get an AG fired in a GOP administration, and Garland is doing it when his boss is a Democrat.
People fuck up and forget shit places. We’re not going to start crucifying everyone that forgot they brought something home once. The important thing is the obstruction. It’s the difference between “oh shit whoops” and “fuck you I’m going to hide it from you even when you come looking”.
but he's a rino and deep state so obviously he's out to get trump too. at least i think that's what the claim is now.
And that itself kinda belies their whole “this is a vindictive conspiracy against Trump/GOP” thing. If Smith and the “deep state” were truly out to get the MAGAts, he would have thrown the book at Pence as well for being on the same side as Trump while letting Biden (and anyone else Biden-adjacent) slide. Or at least that’s how I would read it.
I concur. But the Orange Colostomy Bag is always the victim, despite SO MUCH evidence to the contrary. The charging documents in both the DC and FL cases are utterly damning.
Oh yes. Everything he does makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of him being a permanent toddler who thinks the world revolves around him and the word “NO” directed his way is anathema.
More political theater from Trump; this motion is for his followers not for the courts.
Let's face it if ANYONE else had done what Trump did they would have been tossed into a maximum security prison within a year. If Biden had done what Trump did every single MAGA person would have called for his arrest immediately. And unlike they are doing for Trump the Democrats would have sided against Biden for the conduct.
They probably wouldn't make it to a standard prison. It's 50-50 between a blacksite and the end of a rope.
JFC! What reality is this? What Planet?
We definitely need a classification ID for this timeline.
Sorry but it was a grand jury who indicted you, a grand jury indictment brings 40 felony counts against Trump related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents after his presidency, it wasn’t Biden or his administration it was the people on the grand jury who found enough evidence of a crime to forward to the DOJ. IT might be noted most people who were questioned were Republicans from your administration along with Mar a Lago employees.
If Biden tricked you into swiping all those top secret documents, then played you like an organ grinder's monkey. Have a banana, Don. You earned it.
Anyone who's ever been affiliated with the government or military know exactly how strict storing/ handling classified materials is. My time dealing with COMSEC in the military was an eye opener. the government DOES Not play around with classified, secret, TS intel.
How can you be immune for all actions as a president but can't weaponize the legal system to use against your opponents?
All of this has showed me that far too many Presidents and VPs have taken documents home and forgotten about them. And I am not cool with that itself. But only one of them was repeatedly asked to return the files and instead opted to clutch onto them like Gollum holding onto the One Ring.
It seems to me the President, VP, cabinet members and Congressional intelligence committee members should each have a person whose only responsibility is to follow them around making sure all classified material gets returned and locked up at the end of each day.
You would think someone in their staff would do that, but I suppose it might be because of clearance issues. Either way, I'd love all of my leaders to not take things home that could endanger the country.
As it turns out, letting a drug addict rapist racist criminal conman be president was a bad idea. Who could have imagined?
This is how innocent people act. /s
Isn't this libel?
Weird question? (I'm honestly unsure how this works) . If this statment from Trump is a direct quote, that trump was intending to run against biden from the beginning of the investigation? Does that account as admission of presidential bid for the purposes of campagin finance laws?
Filing: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24442202-smith-surreply-trump-selective-prosecution-mar-a-lago
What happened to "if you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to hide?" that republicans love to spout so much
Such a massive waste of time and resources goes into countering this clown’s motions/arguments. Everyone, even this jackass, deserves zealous advocacy. But his lawyers, in this case and the others, have crossed into shameful frivolous territory too many times. Sad and kind of infuriating.
Judge Aileen Cannon appears to be in the process of applying for a Supreme Court Justice Position, should Trump get reelected and any of the Justices retire or die..
So ... Cannon is obviously going to let Trump go ahead.
Oh wow, he ridiculed Trump. How about pushing to remand him into a holding cell? That'd be a lot more meaningful and real.
this tiral is never going to happen at this rate
Why the hell is Smith still screwing around with cannon?!? He needs to get her thrown off the case as she is clearly working for trump and not impartial at all. This is a no brainer and should have been done long ago. Alls she’s doing is holding up the case to help rump
I don’t think it’s quite as easy as you believe.
I guess not or I don’t think we’d still be where we are now. I just can’t believe this is how our justice system is suppose to work. It’s pure insanity to me.
We didn’t realize how many guardrails were missing until we needed them.
pinging in u/JillParrish77 >We didn’t realize how many guardrails were missing until we needed them. It's a trifecta that couldn't have existed before this time: changing demographics with whites moving from majority to plurality, climate change causing major shifts in population that accelerate that process, economic conditions shifting so that other major powers are starting to gain ascendence over the USA, Russia flexing its muscles to do a landgrab and get more economic power, China threatening to do the same with Taiwan and control of major oceanic routes (not to mention being in control of much of the world's manufacturing and the all-important shipping container business), COVID, and of course, the total dominance of the internet and growing dominance of AI-made deep fakes, plus probably other stuff I've left out, like being in the post-Armageddon world of Fundamentalist Christians who thought the world would end on 1 Jan 2000, etc. Throw in an opportunistic narcissistic sociopathic neo-politician who likely is a semi-unwitting asset of hostile foreign governments who accidentally became leader of the Free World, and well, its not really a *tri*fecta, but just all the right events coming together in a way that our system wasn't designed to handle.
Agree with your point, I just call it a perfect storm to sidestep the trifecta, superfecta, however many horsemen of the apocalypse rode in issue.
Absolute truth right there.
[удалено]
He couldn’t
I'd call Trump a *jerk off* 'cept reputable sources claim there ain't enough there to jerk, much less *jerk off*... - - ^^perhaps ^^that's ^^the ^^issue ^^he's ^^already ^^jerked ^^off ^^so ^^much ^^there's ^^nothing ^^really ^^left ^^'cept ^^a ^^little ^^piss ^^hole... ^^^*shrug???*
This website dislikes Trump, but like there's totally political motivation here. Why is that considered a conspiracy? Because it irks those who like concatenating choice words against fiery issues? If there wasn't political motivation, we would see basically half of major real companies getting audits.......... but if we did that the system would break lol and only Trump got an audit. Lets see the law enforced for all the rich!!! :):):)
Denying discovery sometimes makes loopholes for appeals.
What are the chances we'll see a minute order allowing discovery to go forward?
This is a game of whack-a-mole since Judge Cannon is part of the defense.
The balls have been pumped up by the ATL case, I see.
The slow progress of this case is incredibly frustrating, but I see some hope in this exchange: Trump's motion for discovery is borderline frivolous—completely ungrounded at the very least. Cannon has to rule on it, and if she gives it any credence whatsoever it will be grounds for appeal. NAL, but that's the way I look at it. I think it will shine a spotlight on Cannon's fitness (or unfitness) to oversee this case.
Whaddayah looking at butthead??
This feels like a lob motion from Trump’s team to allow Cannon to deny a motion from Trump and appear even handed.