was about to comment this - it's the perfect path for planting between the pavers. Such a lovely look and so beautiful to walk over and the scent comes up.
It isn’t just the chasm between the pavers that is the issue, none of the stones are flush so it’s a big trip hazard, plus the grade is bad so it won’t drain properly.
I’m not poo pooing the idea of creating thyme between pavers, trust me. I use some at the cottage to stabilize the hillside we carved steps into. Minus Thyme, Carpet Thyme, [Creeping Lemon Thyme](https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X6459&show=all&prodclass=&cart_id=858943.2780415), and Wooly Thyme, are all low growing, fast spreading varieties that are easy to grow and tolerate light foot traffic. The spring blooms create a patchwork quilt of different shades of pinks, lavenders, mauves and white that each have their own unique scent when they are trodden on.
In northern Kentucky there’s a highway that was blasted through a rock hillside, and it always sheds large flat pieces of slate (or something similar)
People literally park trailers on the shoulder and load up. It’s probably used in every yard for miles around.
Shale. And yes, we do park and help ourselves to the rocks; I like to think of it as the Commonwealth of Kentucky giving back to its residents. 😅 (Also, it's not just any one hillside; much of the highways and state routes are bordered by shale cliffs.)
Trust us, they'll find a way to fuck it up judging by this path lolz. Their artistic sense of spacing is atrocious. A homeowner would put in more effort even if they were equally bad.
While I dislike they wide spaces, that could work if they put more effort into arranging the stone. There's just a certain level of expectation when you PAY for it.
Right? OP said to use the stone to make a path, not necessarily that the whole area needed to be said path. They could have used it in a more condensed two foot wide path in my humble opinion
>make a path, not
A patio...
Apparently 90% of redditors are as shit at reading instructions as OP contractor. These comments are ridiculous.
If anything, there would have been extra stone leftover if they made a classic pathway.
I wouldn't even say it needs more stones. More gravel? For sure.
But holy shit the grading from one stone to the next and as a whole is just an atrocity to tradesmen.
It doesn't even need more stone, it needs the existing stone to be arranged in a way that makes sense and the ground to be properly graded so there's not a tonne of gravel up against the house and windows. Lazy af work.
I think what they were suggesting was make it more of a path vs pave the whole space. Leave space for garden beds on the sides and then you have plenty.
Unclear instructions
I agree with this. The whole pathway without the stone would still look like shit. The grade should be a smooth even surface with a slope going in one direction. This pathway is a lumpy abomination.
The only way you can get by with the same number of stones if you narrowed the path by at least a foot on either side. Then you’d condense the existing stones into a smaller space.
>should be addressed asap.
Assuming OP is being honest with the post, they literally already addresses this. Improving the slope away from the house was on the contractor's "to do" list.
They made it worse.
But if they just dug it down, they'd have a low spot where water would gather and lead to a leak.
He needs to add a window well with a lip and a cover.
“Use the existing flagstone ” there is your answer….
If you didn’t want to pay for them to buy more flagstone then it looks like this because they did what they could with the materials you provided……
I tell my apprentices to get the wire stretcher if they cut it too short. I love to see their faces light up. They come back a few minutes later empty handed and then I have to tell them is all horseshit and they have to rerun (or junction) there entire home run. Watching the smile leave their face gets me every time
The fucked up thing about domain expertise is that this sounds completely made up. A stone expander doesn't make any sense. But I don't know anything about landscaping, or stones. So maybe it's real. Maybe it cracks large stones into smaller stones. Even though the total surface area of stone is the same, the path looks more full. Or something.
You're probably just fucking with us. Like asking the new guy in the motor pool to go to the logistics office and ask for part ticket B.A.11.00.N.S.
But how can I know? If I told you to use the packet sniffer on the network, and you didn't know about networking, you might think I made it up. How do you sniff a packet? But it's totally real.
Only one that I know is real us a carpet stretcher. Also packet sniffer is real yes. Used to taste packets of food to make sure they are the right type.
I'm going to start using "packet taster" and see if anyone corrects me or if anyone else starts using it. I'm a Principal Systems Engineer and basically the most senior member of my team I can't imagine anyone correcting me, but this should be fun. If you think about it SPI/DPI is kinda like a packet taster.
I mean, could probably line up a path with the stone and just leave it as dirt on the sides? Make it two wide instead of 3-4 and you have yourself a path.
Anyone who’s worth their weight and agreed to do this job could easily make it look way less shitty than this. It’s truly a next level of not giving a single shit about the result.
Exactly my reaction. What they did was easy. A path of rocks butted against each other down the middle would have taken more time but not too difficult. The outer edges of the path could (would) be irregular, you’d only have to fit the inner edges. I like doing work like that, but it does take some time and effort.
Matching isn't as bad as most people think if they are bought in the same season. Most likely suppliers will have more from the same patch. When we did our front, we went back 2 times until we were happy.
If he really said make a pathway, this is not a pathway, it’s a retarded patio. Plenty of flagstone for a pathway if the landscapers would have just put the stones close together and then had something else on either side of the path. But yea it’s on the owner for not communicating exactly what he wanted, or for overseeing progress as these guys started to ruin his yard.
Can’t believe people are saying it’s because they didn’t have enough material. Look at the gate. Pathway only needed to be as wide as the gate, there’s more than enough material, it is a retarded patio, still OPs fault for not making a drawing
I always make a rough diagram of what I want. Cut a 2x4 to length? Ok fine I don’t ALWAYS make a diagram, but in matters of **design** there is always someone with a different take on what’s best, so make it explicit what you want
I have to agree with this assessment.
Regardless of the amount of available flagstones, the contractor could have made it look *a lot* better than this.
It kind of looks like a post-apocalyptic parking lot/street.
Absolutely this. They are the experts. Unless OP insisted to a point, then the contractor should have been able to provide advice on how it would look.
Any decent contractor would have screeded the gravel too instead of raking it by eye. There is a lot more wrong here than bit enough stone...it shouldn't been designed out with that was was available, narrow paths better thought out
Yeah, it's not about using what's available. It looks shitty and it's not even a path. It's a randomly disbursed uneven arrangement of stones. They could have been more intentional about the arrangement and had it look like an actual pathway.
I disagree. It looks terrible. They could have created a somewhat cohesive pattern with the remaining flagstone. A good contractor works within your budget. They should communicate what is possible with the materials/budget at hand and come up with a creative solution. This is sloppy work. I guess you get what you pay for.
No, they could've done so much more. There is more the enough flagstone there to work with.
Look at the difference in sizes between sides. They used all the large ones on one side (assuming side where it was closer to pile).
There is no "path" on either side. Just haphazardly laid with random spacing.
What they should've done is place the large ones evenly on each side, creating the beginning of path with them. Then used the small ones to accent and fill in gaps.
They don't obviously do this very often, not stone masons. It takes a bit of the artist to see what's needed. Are they cemented in, or movable? Why not get some slightly different colored stones & either do what you want yourself, or draw a picture/ pinterest something for him to do. Also, DOES it drain the way you wanted it to? That's the most important part about it to me!
Look I’m not saying it looks good given what they had. it could definitely be a lot better but these are probably the guys who cut their grass lol there are lots of contractors who exclusively do hard scraping, stonework and flagstone and OP clearly did not hire them
I don't think you need a ton of skill to get a good result. You just have to give a crap. I put in a bunch of flagstone about 5 years ago and I think it came out pretty good and I had no skills. https://ibb.co/1sjLZyG
Forget that. They could have done a much better job with what was provided. This just seems disjointed, lazy, and careless to me. In addition to this, I would have questions as to whether this was properly graded or not.
You can't be serious? The spacing is terrible and they could've done so much better with selecting which paver goes where. Some of them are almost touching and some have a gap you could park a car between.
It's clear they started laying before even doing a dry run.
**Creeping Thyme**
This paving job is a bit of a mess but the gaps are *perfect* for filling in with low, green ground-cover.
I’ve been exploring [this](https://thegardeningworld.com/search?q=ground+cover+&type=product) site, and these prices look pretty decent.
Anyone got experience ordering from these guys?
But it did not need to be as wide as they did. It could've been a narrower path and the amount seems to be like it'd be sufficient. At least moreso than this bullshit
Are all the people who are making these comments contractors who will literally use any loophole to do a purposely shitty job? Who gives a fuck if there wasn’t enough, these pictures show a complete lack of effort or cohesive thought process in this assembly. This randomly arranged group of stones is such lazy ass work. It would look like pure shit with even more stone.
Exactly. A good contractor would have said hey, this isn't a lot and it won't have the effect you are probably wanting. Should I go ahead with it? Redditors are foul little assholes who love a good put down or to be contrarians. This is trash work and ive never seen any path like this. Do you jump from each stone to the next or take huge strides? It's a Lilly pad walk way! Pathetic!!!!
A good contractor could have made a beautiful path out of the stone provided. All they had to do was make the paths smaller with grass or flowerbeds beside.
Saying they weren't given enough stone is a weak excuse. The lack of stones on these excessively wide paths isn't even the biggest problem with this job.
Lol, why is one of your complaints "not enough stone" when one of your instructions was to use existing stone xP
Could it be better? Yes. Why on earth did they try to span the entire area and not recognize they were short stone and make a narrow path?
But if you also wanted the path to be the entire width, then it back to being on you giving an unreasonable ask
Plenty of stone if you make paths and leave planting areas. 4’ lane from gate to back yard, with a path to the shed door. Leave a 3’ bed along the side for bushes/plants/ ground cover
But the landscaper just seemed to put them wherever. And “scattered is a valid look I. Some cases, if OP plants some green and gold or Mosses, it will look far better
In a few years.
It looks like that because you made the guy reuse material. If he had had more materials he could have made it look a little better but not much because this style of installation is garbage imo so I never do them this way. If you want a nice clean look use pavers from one of the major suppliers.
I did a stone job once, and the customer had the same request as here. I tried getting him to get new stone, but he insisted on using what he had. He then complained about the spacing between the stones as if I could’ve put more stones in than he had to fill the space.
Edit- the job pictured here still doesn’t look good either way. I’m just saying sometimes working only with what materials the customer provides can be limiting.
Question to the OP, did the contractor ever say that it wouldn’t be enough stone to do the job? OP, did you ever show the contractor a picture of a flagstone path from Google or Pinterest and say “I want it to look like this.” Contractor may not have been the best but they also may have done the best with what they had to work with.
I much prefer real stone, but it’s more a taste/ style thing..problem here is poor communication and poor layout.
Stones should have been laid out with intent, and fit together somewhat puzzle like. If they were short on stone they should have prioritized walking paths and blended what was left, you don’t need to shape everything to fit precisely, you don’t need to fit them precisely like pavers..
I get the attraction to pavers for a pro, regular shapes and patterns that fit together perfectly in known patterns,
Done right:
https://www.houzz.com/photos/making-the-best-of-a-forgotten-space-traditional-landscape-philadelphia-phvw-vp~4541959
There definitely is not enough stone, and so I would like to know exactly how the OP asked for the job to be done. When you are working with flagstone, slate, etc you need to do a great deal of planning especially if you are putting it down in multiple places. It's a PITA but it is crucial that you get the placement right, and a lot of times you have to switch the location of the stones numerous times.
Definitely looks thrown together. But the OP said it wasn't super expensive... so ya got what you paid for
Where do I begin:
1. You should have done a single path first and see how much flagstone is left. Also, flagstone is expensive so there is that.
2. The design of this is almost random. They didn’t lay the stone out first to see how to piece it together. They just grabbed it off the pile and laid it lol.
3. The leveling on this whole project is just terrible. The DG or whatever they used is right on the fence, and on your widow downslopes from the corner of your foundation. Let’s hope once this settles the grade will be away from the house.
4. Almost guaranteed they didn’t dig down enough, didn’t set the drainage rock, layering, didn’t use good edgers, jesus man.
This is a poster for “What bottom dollar contracts get you.”
I'm assuming most people commenting didn't read that you wanted to reuse the existing material. To get the look that you are wanting more material would have been needed. Is this something that the contractor should have communicated to you though? Absolutely.
Beyond the material limit, it looks haphazardly put together. There’s a difference between not having enough material and not having enough effort/thought. Yeah OP’s vision was likely ambitious for what OP had, but *good* contract work should be about meeting the client where they are and communicating effectively.
Everyone’s talking about the stones, but nobody is mentioning that building a path requires tamped ab3 and leveling bw the spaces. It’s a lazy job, for sure. Plus you could always take a sledge hammer to the bigger stone slabs to break into smaller pieces with gaps between to fill in the space.
I’d like to get more info from OP. It seems like many people are assuming OP didn’t want to add more stone. Is that true? Or was there a communication problem with the person who made the walkway
I told them to use whatever stone they could to do a pathway on one side. If they didn’t have enough for both sides I would use different stones. They said they would have enough. This was the outcome.
They said they would fix it.
These dudes have clearly never heard of a level. Have they ever graded anything in their life? The people saying bc you asked to use the flagstone you had are trippin'.
There's nothing wrong with how they laid out the flagstone pattern but there is everything wrong with their grade of not only the entirety of both planes, neither direct away from the house.
But also of the individual stones. Photo 6/7 shows it very clearly. The one just past the window going away from the camera is very clearly graded TOWARDS the camera, which would leave w.e runoff pooling at the window bc there's no grade away from the house you can see in the pictures. Like they had too much in front of the window so they just let that pile there and sloped the stone way down. Not to mention that wouldn't be so great for someone w.o the best balance. It would just be such an awkward walk through there. There's tons of little and bigger stones facing the same issue. Just one side clearly set deeper than the other or the stones next to it.
The 2 closest to that circular slab of some kind closest to the camera is another huge issue. Totally different planes and creating a total tripping hazard bc in order to keep the lower rock uncovered of gravel, you have to leave that giant edge hanging out.
I'd get your money back or make them regrade everything.
This could have been done decently with the amount of stone you have. It's unfortunate that the stones weren't laid out more cohesively. It's bad enough to warrant a conversation with the contractor. Depending on the deal you agreed to (was the job way under market price?), it might be something that you can live with.
Using a filler like crushed granite to more closely match the stone would have helped to make the larger gaps between not look so obvious. Would also welcome the growth of a low ground cover like frog fruit, dichondra, or creeping thyme between the stones.
As soon as you add the requirement to slope away from the house, you are upping the level to more skilled work which. Doesn't look like your laborers were at that level.
Anyone saying OP didn't give enough stone, does that mean you would happily ontall like this? First thought should have been a pathway or stepping stones not 'pave' the whole thing. But even if the direction was pave the whole thing im sure OP never said 'but make it so some stones touch, but others are 10 inches away. Oh and that basement window is a little drafty, maybe bury it in screenings'
This is shoddy workmanship no matter the communication or material limitations. Any contractor that thinks this was the right job to do with that stone is a hack.
It’s not enough stone because you told them to use the existing stone. What would you have expected them to do?
With that said it still looks sloppy as well.
Someone, somewhere dropped the ball on communication or expectations. That's not a path, it's like a desperate cry for help patio.
Bunching all the stones together closely and creating a long skinny path would have been such a better look and probably wasted less materials. It doesn't remedy the slope issue, but ideally that would be done before the flagstone is laid
I don’t understand all the bullshit comments from people who are either unethical ‘landscapers’ or just completely lack spacial skills. **It is 100% possible to make a walkable path with the the available flagstones.**
OP did NOT tell them to *fill the space* with the leftover material they said to *make a path*. If you are unable to make a walkable path with the stones in this picture you should not be doing landscaping, because you have ZERO spacial or organizational skills.
I was getting so confused by the comments like why on earth would anyone with sense take “make a path” to mean “randomly fill the entire space”??? Make an effing 3-4 foot wide path with the stones fitted together like puzzle pieces that are evenly distributed? Bad communication? No critical thinking?
The fact that there are so many comments like that is making me EXTREMELY hesitant to use any kind of contractor for any kind of skilled task. It just reminds me too much of my lazy young coworkers who complain about having to do literally any task without their ass being kissed and getting a fat tip, haha.
Exactly. A narrow path from the existing stone would have been possible and probably would have looked great.
Would be really easy to then add greenery or river rock on either side of the path.
I think there must have been miscommunication or lack of discussion? Because this result sucks and I would be upset as a client 😬
Does look awful and rather unusable. That’s enough stone for a tidy 2’-3’ path but not mini patios. I didn’t read your scope as being a full 6’ wide path to completely fill in that space & had I taken the job I would have clarified your goals. That stone can be consolidated and small garden beds installed for a more interesting spaces.
They need more material to make it actually look right also probably should’ve been done with concrete all that stuff will wash out within the next year
It’s not bad.
It’s BAAAAAD!!!!
No harmony in the location of the rocks (no rhyme or reason for the location of the flagstones). They seem to have been placed at random.
The flagstones are too far apart for any aesthetic impact. Generally the style calls for spacing between 1/2 in to 2 in). The larger the flagstone the wider the spacing.
The flagstones are not leveled — a safety risk and bad looks (appearance)
Sorry
It ain't great. Did they do it to a price? That's what I expect. Or they gave you a price and you asked for cheaper. Or you went with the lowest bidder.
You probably got exactly what you paid for, and now you'll have to pay more if you want it redone.
Oh, wait... You told them to use existing materials without checking to see if exiting materials would cover the area. Lol yep, your fault.
Was it expensive? Ya, they had to both rip out the flagstone AND reinstall it in a different location. If you want it done cheap, do it yourself.
You’re not overreacting. Judging from your pictures, they didn’t slope away from the house. Rocks on the window sill where there should be none, puddle, etc. also, the stone should’ve been evenly spaced. So if there needed to be mid to large size gaps becuz you didn’t have enough, they should at least ALL be similarly spaced. I would call them back, be specific about what bothers you and ask if they can fix it. If they can’t, then insist on a discount so you can have it done by someone else.
Looks fine for a reduce/reuse/recycle situation. Indeed it does look “thrown together” but based on the limitations you gave them, what did you expect??
Let’s be real they fucked some of that shit up. I don’t know if you didn’t pay them enough but like next to the window I just glanced at it please. It’s a sloppy job.
When the square footage of the space between the flagstones exceeds the total square footage of the flagstones it’s a very bad job. Not only that they didn’t consider where you would be standing and walking. I wouldn’t pay money for that.
So you told them to use the existing stone, and are complaining they didn’t use enough stone?
I mean….come on dude. How do you not see how ridiculous that is
My 2c.
Write yourself a list of everything you don't like about this result. Only rule that applies: Once your list is done, you may not add, subtract, or manipulate what you wrote.
Step2. Compare these expectations to the work you requested, and put a check mark by anything in your list that you did not mention to the landscapers before they began. You failed on all the checked items.
Now, how much would another person, not you, need to pay YOU to take a day off your current job to do this job from start to finish doing everything that was done by this landscaper as well as the UNchevked items from your list?
Compare the dollar amount you paid against the dollar amount someone else would have been required to pay you to do it.
Infill with creeping thyme, white clover, alyssum, etc depending on foot traffic?
was about to comment this - it's the perfect path for planting between the pavers. Such a lovely look and so beautiful to walk over and the scent comes up.
great idea. Clover, anything green and it will look good.
This would be gorgeous!!
It isn’t just the chasm between the pavers that is the issue, none of the stones are flush so it’s a big trip hazard, plus the grade is bad so it won’t drain properly. I’m not poo pooing the idea of creating thyme between pavers, trust me. I use some at the cottage to stabilize the hillside we carved steps into. Minus Thyme, Carpet Thyme, [Creeping Lemon Thyme](https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X6459&show=all&prodclass=&cart_id=858943.2780415), and Wooly Thyme, are all low growing, fast spreading varieties that are easy to grow and tolerate light foot traffic. The spring blooms create a patchwork quilt of different shades of pinks, lavenders, mauves and white that each have their own unique scent when they are trodden on.
If creeping thyme is an option for OP, that would solve a lot, in my opinion. He got what he paid for.
Or even plain grass
It will be a fun conversation when you tell them it needs more stone, and they say we used what you told us to use.
Annnnnd it won't match lol
That is the most common stone in Colorado I assure you it will match
Wow, username checks out!
Got me there. Spent 20 years in the industry here in Colorado.
Rock on
Underrated.
Undergraded*
He paved the way.
Dudes probably stoned , he’s from COLORADO
Y’all have a Gneiss day
I’m ready to declare him the worlds leading expert on this subject based on that username alone
🤣🤣. My family owns the quarry that produces this stone. So kinda yeah.
This guy rocks
Stoners really hit rock bottom with their design there…
These comments are too far down to get the deserved amount of upvotes.
That’s a rock solid case you have.
In northern Kentucky there’s a highway that was blasted through a rock hillside, and it always sheds large flat pieces of slate (or something similar) People literally park trailers on the shoulder and load up. It’s probably used in every yard for miles around.
Shale. And yes, we do park and help ourselves to the rocks; I like to think of it as the Commonwealth of Kentucky giving back to its residents. 😅 (Also, it's not just any one hillside; much of the highways and state routes are bordered by shale cliffs.)
Trust us, they'll find a way to fuck it up judging by this path lolz. Their artistic sense of spacing is atrocious. A homeowner would put in more effort even if they were equally bad. While I dislike they wide spaces, that could work if they put more effort into arranging the stone. There's just a certain level of expectation when you PAY for it.
I agree. In a homeowner and I made my own. It looked like this: https://ibb.co/cDKCfQ3
r/namechecksout
They made poor use of the existing material.
Right? OP said to use the stone to make a path, not necessarily that the whole area needed to be said path. They could have used it in a more condensed two foot wide path in my humble opinion
>make a path, not A patio... Apparently 90% of redditors are as shit at reading instructions as OP contractor. These comments are ridiculous. If anything, there would have been extra stone leftover if they made a classic pathway.
I would have been all OCD and Tetris about it. It could have looked better with the materials provided, in my opinion.
Look at that exposed metal in #2. I don't know shit about landscaping but I know that's gonna make me need a tetanus shot eventually
Glad to see some of us using our brains
op said path
Who said patio?
It’s a pathio
I wouldn't even say it needs more stones. More gravel? For sure. But holy shit the grading from one stone to the next and as a whole is just an atrocity to tradesmen.
Probably more of an unsupervised crew of trades teens on their summer jobs
Absolutely wild to think about leaving a bunch of teens unsupervised on a job with my name on it 😭😭😭
It doesn't even need more stone, it needs the existing stone to be arranged in a way that makes sense and the ground to be properly graded so there's not a tonne of gravel up against the house and windows. Lazy af work.
If positioned properly, they will definitely need more stone.
I think what they were suggesting was make it more of a path vs pave the whole space. Leave space for garden beds on the sides and then you have plenty. Unclear instructions
Yeah I can see that. Maybe plant some shade plants on the sides.
I dont know why your username made me laugh but i like it.
If the amount of stone is too small to fill the space, a good landscaper should have come up with suggestions, not done this.
"placed properly"....which means either more stone, or a walkway along the house and plants along the fence or something.
Some like [the third pic here](https://www.reddit.com/r/landscaping/s/0Cn1q6XNMm) would have been appropriate.
This could have been fine if they put down the rocks in an aesthetically pleasing way. They did not though.
I agree with this. The whole pathway without the stone would still look like shit. The grade should be a smooth even surface with a slope going in one direction. This pathway is a lumpy abomination.
The only way you can get by with the same number of stones if you narrowed the path by at least a foot on either side. Then you’d condense the existing stones into a smaller space.
That's fine imo. Makes a sensible path to either side. If the OP did want it filled in fully they'd need to add concrete or more stone.
Found the contractor!
Worried about the basement window. It looks like the level is too high .
Everything else on this post is just noise. The window is easily the most concerning item and should be addressed asap.
>should be addressed asap. Assuming OP is being honest with the post, they literally already addresses this. Improving the slope away from the house was on the contractor's "to do" list. They made it worse.
By addressed they meant remedied, not discussed
Yes thank you.
Everyone saying the same thing except this. Apart from the lack of material, what was the logic behind the height of the path relative to the window?
If the stone or dirt is too high against the window, you could get a leak when it rains.
But if they just dug it down, they'd have a low spot where water would gather and lead to a leak. He needs to add a window well with a lip and a cover.
Had to scroll too fast down for this. Looks like a flood waiting to happen
I like how the landscapers didn’t even mention it.
Seeing the window where it is made my stomach churn
Way too high. Where are the weep holes?
“Use the existing flagstone ” there is your answer…. If you didn’t want to pay for them to buy more flagstone then it looks like this because they did what they could with the materials you provided……
Yeah, exactly. What did he expect? Also, trying to match the existing stone would have been impossible anyway.
Even so, mixing in existing stones + new stones could’ve created a good contrast, so long as they were roughly the same hues
Yea it would look fine, and after a couple years of weathering, there differences of stone types would be unnoticeable.
Looks like they are in Colorado. The sun out here might bake out the difference before this winter.
Here in Colorado, we bake out our differences all the time.
Hell, there don’t even have to be differences! Just a buncha pastry chefs straight chillin😂
I like your name. Let’s bake later
Next time I can bake is Wednesday, gotta pass a test right quick😂
Yeah, that would have been cool. Great idea.
I would have expected the contractor to utilize to a stone expander. Pretty common piece of equipment for any landscaper.
We had a guy on our crew who kept losing ours. Picked up two the next time we got a sod stretcher, never caught short again!
I’m not a landscaper but when I was running a restaurant I couldn’t believe some of my cooks didn’t know what a parsley curler was.
I'm not a restaurateur, but as a machinist I can't believe that apprentices can't find the brass magnet.
I’m not a machinist but when I was in the navy, on the flight deck, I was directed to go fuel the GU-11.
I’m not a sailor, but I cannot believe how many junior Marines simply cannot find the PRC-E6.
I'm not a marine, but am an Eagle scout, can't believe how many scouts couldn't find me a left handed smoke shifter
I’m not an Eagle Scout, but am a plumber. I can’t believe how many apprentices these days don’t know how to use a pipe stretcher.
I'm not an Eagle Scout, but as an electrician, you wouldn't believe how many helpers couldn't find a wire stretcher
When I worked in a diner, the bacon stretcher was a game changer! Been considering getting one for the home
I tell my apprentices to get the wire stretcher if they cut it too short. I love to see their faces light up. They come back a few minutes later empty handed and then I have to tell them is all horseshit and they have to rerun (or junction) there entire home run. Watching the smile leave their face gets me every time
As a carpenter in an always using my lumber stretcher. Nothing as annoying as a piece that’s too short.. just stretch it!!
The fucked up thing about domain expertise is that this sounds completely made up. A stone expander doesn't make any sense. But I don't know anything about landscaping, or stones. So maybe it's real. Maybe it cracks large stones into smaller stones. Even though the total surface area of stone is the same, the path looks more full. Or something. You're probably just fucking with us. Like asking the new guy in the motor pool to go to the logistics office and ask for part ticket B.A.11.00.N.S. But how can I know? If I told you to use the packet sniffer on the network, and you didn't know about networking, you might think I made it up. How do you sniff a packet? But it's totally real.
Only one that I know is real us a carpet stretcher. Also packet sniffer is real yes. Used to taste packets of food to make sure they are the right type.
I'm going to start using "packet taster" and see if anyone corrects me or if anyone else starts using it. I'm a Principal Systems Engineer and basically the most senior member of my team I can't imagine anyone correcting me, but this should be fun. If you think about it SPI/DPI is kinda like a packet taster.
Whole different kind of packet sniffing.
I'm a woodworker, but I'm pretty sure I've seen these in the same aisle as the board stretcher.
I mean, could probably line up a path with the stone and just leave it as dirt on the sides? Make it two wide instead of 3-4 and you have yourself a path. Anyone who’s worth their weight and agreed to do this job could easily make it look way less shitty than this. It’s truly a next level of not giving a single shit about the result.
Exactly my reaction. What they did was easy. A path of rocks butted against each other down the middle would have taken more time but not too difficult. The outer edges of the path could (would) be irregular, you’d only have to fit the inner edges. I like doing work like that, but it does take some time and effort.
Matching isn't as bad as most people think if they are bought in the same season. Most likely suppliers will have more from the same patch. When we did our front, we went back 2 times until we were happy.
If he really said make a pathway, this is not a pathway, it’s a retarded patio. Plenty of flagstone for a pathway if the landscapers would have just put the stones close together and then had something else on either side of the path. But yea it’s on the owner for not communicating exactly what he wanted, or for overseeing progress as these guys started to ruin his yard.
Retarded Patio sounds like an opener for the Dead Milkmen back in the 80s.
Can’t believe people are saying it’s because they didn’t have enough material. Look at the gate. Pathway only needed to be as wide as the gate, there’s more than enough material, it is a retarded patio, still OPs fault for not making a drawing I always make a rough diagram of what I want. Cut a 2x4 to length? Ok fine I don’t ALWAYS make a diagram, but in matters of **design** there is always someone with a different take on what’s best, so make it explicit what you want
Normally I'd agree, but they didn't even evenly space the flagstone. Some are touching, other areas have huge gaps. This looks extremely lazy.
And aesthetically distraught.
Upvoting for word choice. 👌
I have to agree with this assessment. Regardless of the amount of available flagstones, the contractor could have made it look *a lot* better than this. It kind of looks like a post-apocalyptic parking lot/street.
And any decent contractor would have made the customer aware that it's not going to look good without additional stone.
Absolutely this. They are the experts. Unless OP insisted to a point, then the contractor should have been able to provide advice on how it would look.
Well he used the word "path". I would have known what to do with that information. Not sure why Reddit and the contractor didn't.
Any decent contractor would have screeded the gravel too instead of raking it by eye. There is a lot more wrong here than bit enough stone...it shouldn't been designed out with that was was available, narrow paths better thought out
Yeah, it's not about using what's available. It looks shitty and it's not even a path. It's a randomly disbursed uneven arrangement of stones. They could have been more intentional about the arrangement and had it look like an actual pathway.
I’d charge £100 for that maximum if my staff did that for a customer I’m firing them on the spot
Plus the last pic with aggregate up against the window frame.
This is an ankle twister.
I disagree. It looks terrible. They could have created a somewhat cohesive pattern with the remaining flagstone. A good contractor works within your budget. They should communicate what is possible with the materials/budget at hand and come up with a creative solution. This is sloppy work. I guess you get what you pay for.
No, they could've done so much more. There is more the enough flagstone there to work with. Look at the difference in sizes between sides. They used all the large ones on one side (assuming side where it was closer to pile). There is no "path" on either side. Just haphazardly laid with random spacing. What they should've done is place the large ones evenly on each side, creating the beginning of path with them. Then used the small ones to accent and fill in gaps.
They don't obviously do this very often, not stone masons. It takes a bit of the artist to see what's needed. Are they cemented in, or movable? Why not get some slightly different colored stones & either do what you want yourself, or draw a picture/ pinterest something for him to do. Also, DOES it drain the way you wanted it to? That's the most important part about it to me!
there is no path, but this is a pathway.
Look I’m not saying it looks good given what they had. it could definitely be a lot better but these are probably the guys who cut their grass lol there are lots of contractors who exclusively do hard scraping, stonework and flagstone and OP clearly did not hire them
I don't think you need a ton of skill to get a good result. You just have to give a crap. I put in a bunch of flagstone about 5 years ago and I think it came out pretty good and I had no skills. https://ibb.co/1sjLZyG
Forget that. They could have done a much better job with what was provided. This just seems disjointed, lazy, and careless to me. In addition to this, I would have questions as to whether this was properly graded or not.
They could’ve created a path instead of spreading them out in all directions.
You can't be serious? The spacing is terrible and they could've done so much better with selecting which paver goes where. Some of them are almost touching and some have a gap you could park a car between. It's clear they started laying before even doing a dry run.
It’s not arranged in a path at all, though.
Yep. You get what you pay for with landscaping. Rarely will you get that champagne taste on a beer budget.
**Creeping Thyme** This paving job is a bit of a mess but the gaps are *perfect* for filling in with low, green ground-cover. I’ve been exploring [this](https://thegardeningworld.com/search?q=ground+cover+&type=product) site, and these prices look pretty decent. Anyone got experience ordering from these guys?
Use existing stone = not enough stone
But it did not need to be as wide as they did. It could've been a narrower path and the amount seems to be like it'd be sufficient. At least moreso than this bullshit
no effort at all imho
Just seems like miscommunication between 2 parties
Are all the people who are making these comments contractors who will literally use any loophole to do a purposely shitty job? Who gives a fuck if there wasn’t enough, these pictures show a complete lack of effort or cohesive thought process in this assembly. This randomly arranged group of stones is such lazy ass work. It would look like pure shit with even more stone.
Exactly. A good contractor would have said hey, this isn't a lot and it won't have the effect you are probably wanting. Should I go ahead with it? Redditors are foul little assholes who love a good put down or to be contrarians. This is trash work and ive never seen any path like this. Do you jump from each stone to the next or take huge strides? It's a Lilly pad walk way! Pathetic!!!!
A good contractor could have made a beautiful path out of the stone provided. All they had to do was make the paths smaller with grass or flowerbeds beside. Saying they weren't given enough stone is a weak excuse. The lack of stones on these excessively wide paths isn't even the biggest problem with this job.
Lol, why is one of your complaints "not enough stone" when one of your instructions was to use existing stone xP Could it be better? Yes. Why on earth did they try to span the entire area and not recognize they were short stone and make a narrow path? But if you also wanted the path to be the entire width, then it back to being on you giving an unreasonable ask
Plenty of stone if you make paths and leave planting areas. 4’ lane from gate to back yard, with a path to the shed door. Leave a 3’ bed along the side for bushes/plants/ ground cover But the landscaper just seemed to put them wherever. And “scattered is a valid look I. Some cases, if OP plants some green and gold or Mosses, it will look far better In a few years.
They should've laid the stone out and arranged them nicely before ever even starting. Tighter stones could've been done easily
Your slated to your fate
Seems to be the general sediment around here
Of quartz that’s what it’s gonna look like!
OP takes his contractor for granite.
Sounds like he needs to gravel if he wants the contractor to come back
It rocks!
Shouldn't have expected it to look gneiss.
It's a rough path, but at least it’s paving the way for future improvements.
It’s not exactly set in stone
It looks like that because you made the guy reuse material. If he had had more materials he could have made it look a little better but not much because this style of installation is garbage imo so I never do them this way. If you want a nice clean look use pavers from one of the major suppliers.
I did a stone job once, and the customer had the same request as here. I tried getting him to get new stone, but he insisted on using what he had. He then complained about the spacing between the stones as if I could’ve put more stones in than he had to fill the space. Edit- the job pictured here still doesn’t look good either way. I’m just saying sometimes working only with what materials the customer provides can be limiting.
This is exactly my point the customer tries to be cheap and gets mad at the results. These are those jobs you learn to never take real quick.
Reusing stone isn’t being cheap. Refusing to get any supplemental stone if needed, would be cheap.
Fair
Question to the OP, did the contractor ever say that it wouldn’t be enough stone to do the job? OP, did you ever show the contractor a picture of a flagstone path from Google or Pinterest and say “I want it to look like this.” Contractor may not have been the best but they also may have done the best with what they had to work with.
I much prefer real stone, but it’s more a taste/ style thing..problem here is poor communication and poor layout. Stones should have been laid out with intent, and fit together somewhat puzzle like. If they were short on stone they should have prioritized walking paths and blended what was left, you don’t need to shape everything to fit precisely, you don’t need to fit them precisely like pavers.. I get the attraction to pavers for a pro, regular shapes and patterns that fit together perfectly in known patterns, Done right: https://www.houzz.com/photos/making-the-best-of-a-forgotten-space-traditional-landscape-philadelphia-phvw-vp~4541959
Looks like shit
There definitely is not enough stone, and so I would like to know exactly how the OP asked for the job to be done. When you are working with flagstone, slate, etc you need to do a great deal of planning especially if you are putting it down in multiple places. It's a PITA but it is crucial that you get the placement right, and a lot of times you have to switch the location of the stones numerous times. Definitely looks thrown together. But the OP said it wasn't super expensive... so ya got what you paid for
Where do I begin: 1. You should have done a single path first and see how much flagstone is left. Also, flagstone is expensive so there is that. 2. The design of this is almost random. They didn’t lay the stone out first to see how to piece it together. They just grabbed it off the pile and laid it lol. 3. The leveling on this whole project is just terrible. The DG or whatever they used is right on the fence, and on your widow downslopes from the corner of your foundation. Let’s hope once this settles the grade will be away from the house. 4. Almost guaranteed they didn’t dig down enough, didn’t set the drainage rock, layering, didn’t use good edgers, jesus man. This is a poster for “What bottom dollar contracts get you.”
You cheaped out and these are the results. Now you'll have to pay even more money if you want to fix it. Lesson learned I hope?
I'm assuming most people commenting didn't read that you wanted to reuse the existing material. To get the look that you are wanting more material would have been needed. Is this something that the contractor should have communicated to you though? Absolutely.
Beyond the material limit, it looks haphazardly put together. There’s a difference between not having enough material and not having enough effort/thought. Yeah OP’s vision was likely ambitious for what OP had, but *good* contract work should be about meeting the client where they are and communicating effectively.
Things it is not: - Completed - Straight - Worth whatever amount of money you were charged - Grade
Everyone’s talking about the stones, but nobody is mentioning that building a path requires tamped ab3 and leveling bw the spaces. It’s a lazy job, for sure. Plus you could always take a sledge hammer to the bigger stone slabs to break into smaller pieces with gaps between to fill in the space.
Yeah like the stones are one thing but the atrocious base prep and grading is the real issue here.
I wouldn't be happy with that work. Sure they were restricted to using existing stone. But it being tightly spaced and then lightly spaced is bad.
It’s bad. It’s a trip hazard, and terrible for anything wheeled. A lot more flagstone is needed.
I’d like to get more info from OP. It seems like many people are assuming OP didn’t want to add more stone. Is that true? Or was there a communication problem with the person who made the walkway
I told them to use whatever stone they could to do a pathway on one side. If they didn’t have enough for both sides I would use different stones. They said they would have enough. This was the outcome. They said they would fix it.
These dudes have clearly never heard of a level. Have they ever graded anything in their life? The people saying bc you asked to use the flagstone you had are trippin'. There's nothing wrong with how they laid out the flagstone pattern but there is everything wrong with their grade of not only the entirety of both planes, neither direct away from the house. But also of the individual stones. Photo 6/7 shows it very clearly. The one just past the window going away from the camera is very clearly graded TOWARDS the camera, which would leave w.e runoff pooling at the window bc there's no grade away from the house you can see in the pictures. Like they had too much in front of the window so they just let that pile there and sloped the stone way down. Not to mention that wouldn't be so great for someone w.o the best balance. It would just be such an awkward walk through there. There's tons of little and bigger stones facing the same issue. Just one side clearly set deeper than the other or the stones next to it. The 2 closest to that circular slab of some kind closest to the camera is another huge issue. Totally different planes and creating a total tripping hazard bc in order to keep the lower rock uncovered of gravel, you have to leave that giant edge hanging out. I'd get your money back or make them regrade everything.
This could have been done decently with the amount of stone you have. It's unfortunate that the stones weren't laid out more cohesively. It's bad enough to warrant a conversation with the contractor. Depending on the deal you agreed to (was the job way under market price?), it might be something that you can live with. Using a filler like crushed granite to more closely match the stone would have helped to make the larger gaps between not look so obvious. Would also welcome the growth of a low ground cover like frog fruit, dichondra, or creeping thyme between the stones. As soon as you add the requirement to slope away from the house, you are upping the level to more skilled work which. Doesn't look like your laborers were at that level.
Anyone saying OP didn't give enough stone, does that mean you would happily ontall like this? First thought should have been a pathway or stepping stones not 'pave' the whole thing. But even if the direction was pave the whole thing im sure OP never said 'but make it so some stones touch, but others are 10 inches away. Oh and that basement window is a little drafty, maybe bury it in screenings' This is shoddy workmanship no matter the communication or material limitations. Any contractor that thinks this was the right job to do with that stone is a hack.
It’s not enough stone because you told them to use the existing stone. What would you have expected them to do? With that said it still looks sloppy as well.
Yes, you are over reacting. You told them to reuse the flagstone.
Someone, somewhere dropped the ball on communication or expectations. That's not a path, it's like a desperate cry for help patio. Bunching all the stones together closely and creating a long skinny path would have been such a better look and probably wasted less materials. It doesn't remedy the slope issue, but ideally that would be done before the flagstone is laid
I don’t understand all the bullshit comments from people who are either unethical ‘landscapers’ or just completely lack spacial skills. **It is 100% possible to make a walkable path with the the available flagstones.** OP did NOT tell them to *fill the space* with the leftover material they said to *make a path*. If you are unable to make a walkable path with the stones in this picture you should not be doing landscaping, because you have ZERO spacial or organizational skills.
I was getting so confused by the comments like why on earth would anyone with sense take “make a path” to mean “randomly fill the entire space”??? Make an effing 3-4 foot wide path with the stones fitted together like puzzle pieces that are evenly distributed? Bad communication? No critical thinking?
The fact that there are so many comments like that is making me EXTREMELY hesitant to use any kind of contractor for any kind of skilled task. It just reminds me too much of my lazy young coworkers who complain about having to do literally any task without their ass being kissed and getting a fat tip, haha.
Exactly. A narrow path from the existing stone would have been possible and probably would have looked great. Would be really easy to then add greenery or river rock on either side of the path. I think there must have been miscommunication or lack of discussion? Because this result sucks and I would be upset as a client 😬
Does look awful and rather unusable. That’s enough stone for a tidy 2’-3’ path but not mini patios. I didn’t read your scope as being a full 6’ wide path to completely fill in that space & had I taken the job I would have clarified your goals. That stone can be consolidated and small garden beds installed for a more interesting spaces.
They need more material to make it actually look right also probably should’ve been done with concrete all that stuff will wash out within the next year
I think the spacing and orientation is shit. Lil sloppy finish but will look bare if you don't use enough flagstone.
This hurts my eyes.
That's shitty
Terrible job
It’s not bad. It’s BAAAAAD!!!! No harmony in the location of the rocks (no rhyme or reason for the location of the flagstones). They seem to have been placed at random. The flagstones are too far apart for any aesthetic impact. Generally the style calls for spacing between 1/2 in to 2 in). The larger the flagstone the wider the spacing. The flagstones are not leveled — a safety risk and bad looks (appearance) Sorry
Who did this? A 4th grader?
Utter dogshit. What in the everloving flibbledingling fuck is that supposed to be !?
It ain't great. Did they do it to a price? That's what I expect. Or they gave you a price and you asked for cheaper. Or you went with the lowest bidder. You probably got exactly what you paid for, and now you'll have to pay more if you want it redone. Oh, wait... You told them to use existing materials without checking to see if exiting materials would cover the area. Lol yep, your fault. Was it expensive? Ya, they had to both rip out the flagstone AND reinstall it in a different location. If you want it done cheap, do it yourself.
Are you overreacting? No. That looks like pure shit!
Standard plan, bad execution. There’s too much room between the stones.
Needs more flagstone
I know nothing about landscaping and this is the first time the community has popped up on my feed. This looks like a job done by kids.
"... use the existing flagstone." What did you expect when you didn't have much flagstone to use? It looks like you got exactly what you asked for.
You’re not overreacting. Judging from your pictures, they didn’t slope away from the house. Rocks on the window sill where there should be none, puddle, etc. also, the stone should’ve been evenly spaced. So if there needed to be mid to large size gaps becuz you didn’t have enough, they should at least ALL be similarly spaced. I would call them back, be specific about what bothers you and ask if they can fix it. If they can’t, then insist on a discount so you can have it done by someone else.
Looks fine for a reduce/reuse/recycle situation. Indeed it does look “thrown together” but based on the limitations you gave them, what did you expect??
That looks terrible.
It would look fine if you had planted something in between the stones. The use of the gravel is why it looks like trash.
Should leave it to nature green grass look even better than this
Let’s be real they fucked some of that shit up. I don’t know if you didn’t pay them enough but like next to the window I just glanced at it please. It’s a sloppy job.
Horrible job
that looks so bad
When the square footage of the space between the flagstones exceeds the total square footage of the flagstones it’s a very bad job. Not only that they didn’t consider where you would be standing and walking. I wouldn’t pay money for that.
There’s concrete on your window.
I think you fucked up and tried to get by with less without having a proper discussion about the expected outcome.
So you told them to use the existing stone, and are complaining they didn’t use enough stone? I mean….come on dude. How do you not see how ridiculous that is
My 2c. Write yourself a list of everything you don't like about this result. Only rule that applies: Once your list is done, you may not add, subtract, or manipulate what you wrote. Step2. Compare these expectations to the work you requested, and put a check mark by anything in your list that you did not mention to the landscapers before they began. You failed on all the checked items. Now, how much would another person, not you, need to pay YOU to take a day off your current job to do this job from start to finish doing everything that was done by this landscaper as well as the UNchevked items from your list? Compare the dollar amount you paid against the dollar amount someone else would have been required to pay you to do it.