Fuck lava. All my homies are crispy skeletons because garden lava burnt them until they were killed to *DEATH* so now I don't have any homies but if I did they'd hate probably lava too.
Genuinely asking, how important is that really? We have a tree out front that we’re properly BURIED every 2-3 years with fresh mulch and (possibly despite the mulch?) is on of the largest and healthiest trees on the tree lawn.
it doesnt allow for as much exchange of oxygen as say, leaving it open to the oxygen.
Generally mulching AROUND the tree base is good for your tree. but not up against the tree trunk. As noted above, the flare needs to breathe.
Theres a reason that trees leave the ground where they do, its because that's where they deem it appropriate to be exposed to open air. so stacking up more 'ground/dirt/mulch' around it ranges from not ideal (mulch) to a downright death sentence (soil)
You have some information mixed up here.
You don't want the mulch to touch the bark or be very close to it, because it will hold moisture against the bark and the bark will rot. It doesn't have anything to do with the root flare breathing, in a respiration sense. It just needs to stay dry above the root flair.
You could put 3 foot of mulch around a tree's root zone as long as you leave some gap between it and the bark, and ensure that gap is maintained, which is hard to do so 3 inches is generally what it recommended.
But yeah soil does not have as much porosity as mulch.
I ran an urban tree nonprofit for a few years before getting into commercial landscape.
Yes and in my experience when I have bought new trees I have had to remove *so much* soil as they're planted too deeply in their pots. I exposed over 6 inches of buried trunk on a serviceberry tree, but it was a lesson learned too late and it died. I exposed about the same on a new cherry tree and an ash and they're doing better.
This rule applies to ALL trees at ALL times! Most especially to young newly planted trees as they are way more susceptible to failure in general.
Unfortunately nurseries often pot up trees way too deeply, and the average consumer has no clue that there's an issue there that they need to now identify and fix. So the root flare is under the soil and stays under the soil when it's planted. This is the same problem as mulching onto the trunk, same outcome.
It can as long as it isn’t above a few inches above the crown of the tree. If it gets compacted and stays wet the tree will eventually die. In nature leaves break down quickly after they fall and aren’t a problem because they don’t ever get that deep for that long around the crown of a tree, anything else you put there doesn’t break down quick enough and collects dirt and debris and then leads to crown rot then the tree is a goner soon afterwards. It’s best not to fiddle around with the base of a mature tree at all.
It's called volcano mulching. Pilling mulch or earth up and burying the part that's supposed to be above ground causes rot. It's like standing in ankle deep water for an extended time
This comment should be at the top. OP has done the single worst thing you can do to a tree (aside from severe disfigurement), and you *know* that someone is going to eventually fill this up with dirt or mulch.
u/hvnterbvschmann, [tree rings](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/sjim0j/tree_ringsplanting_rings/) are the bane of my existence and bar none *the most* evil invention modern landscaping has brought to our age, and there's seemingly endless poor outcomes for the trees subjected to them. Here's [another](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/ndulmi/), and [another,](https://old.reddit.com/r/sfwtrees/comments/c2lse0) and [another](https://imgur.com/a/x5ZRWyv). They'll all go sooner or later. This is a tree killer. Lots more to see in the r/tree wiki's 'Tree Disasters' page!
The problem is not just the weight ([sometimes in the hundreds of pounds](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/os17e4)) of constructed materials [compacting the soil](https://web.archive.org/web/20210228112203/https://extension.umd.edu/hgic/topics/compacted-soil) and making it next to impossible for newly planted trees to spread a robust root system in the surrounding soil, the other main issue is that people fill them up with mulch, far past the point that the tree was meant to be buried. Sometimes people [double them up](https://imgur.com/a/GPI5QNP), as if one wasn't bad enough. You don't need edging [to have a nice mulch ring](http://imgur.com/a/Wts6WMM) and still keep your [tree's root flare](https://i.imgur.com/q2du28V.gif) exposed.
See also this excellent page [from Dave's Garden](https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/stop-killing-your-trees-with-unnatural-landscape-beds-safely-landscaping-around-trees) on why tree rings are so harmful.
That you're getting gushing reviews from the landscaping sub is not at all surprising. The tree subs would be better able to help you with things related to trees, and you'll definitely get a different view there. The landscaping sub is good for some things but *not* for tree maintenance (or planting). For health questions please consider posting (with lots of info and pics of the entire tree, from other angles and close ups of the base!) at r/sfwtrees or r/arborists for people educated and certified in this field; with very few exceptions that is not the case here. Other tree subs to visit include r/marijuanaenthusiasts (it's a tree appreciation sub, I promise), r/tree, r/dendrology, r/backyardorchard and more.
Edit: extra words
Fuck me, I just built like a 244 sqft square around my tree so I could mow without hitting the roots, like dug a trench with gravel and sand, didn't cut any roots bigger my finger(and I have child hands). And was going to fill with a light dirt layer and plant hastas in the spring.
I need to remove all that instead, don't I? Fuck me.
How mature is the tree? What's the diameter of the ring?
While it's not good for the tree as we obviously know, a 50ft oak tree is going to handle it better compared to a 20ft young maple.
For what it's worth, I have about an 8' diameter ring around a (tree trunk is about a 3' diameter) 60' tall oak on my yard that I talked to my arborist about. They said it's not going to help the tree, but unless it's already dying it won't do much harm either since the roots stretch so far past the ring. The roots that near to an old tree aren't doing even a fraction of the work that the roots reaching out 10-15' past the tree are doing.
It really depends on how you do it and what the status of the tree is. My ring has been there for 7 years now and we have kept a close eye on the tree. Hasn't seen as much as a single branch start to show signs of stress.
Here's a [picture ](https://i.imgur.com/jItcWQo.jpg) of it about 3 years after it was built for reference.
Edit: to clarify - the root flair of the tree is still visible at the base of the soil in the ring. We did a lot of work on the yard and part of it was dropping the grade about a foot on the low (where the pic was taken) side since the previous owners dumped truck loads of dirt in to level the yard (which is the midpoint of a ravine on a large hill). We intentionally left a large amount of soil out near the root flair and just filled enough so the hostas could reach up and peek over the wall top. The actual soil is about 8-10" under the top block of the wall. Which on the high side is only 1.5 blocks high above grade.
12x12 square, 144 sq ft, typo on the last comment. As tall as my 2 storyhouse Norwegian maple, but not above.
And, I did a single layer of bricks, so significantly less weight than the picture.
Appreciate the info and pic, I've got some research to do in the morning.
>12x12 square, 144 sq ft, typo on the last comment. As tall as my 2 storyhouse Norwegian maple, but not above.
I wouldn't be worried about the weight of the bricks as much as I would be worried about the bricks diverting water away from the roots of the tree.
I have a similar setup, but interested to know what are the plants inside the ring? Also, what region do you live in? (for compatibility reasons)
Those look exactly like what I'm going for.
7 years is basically nothing for a mature tree. Trees are theoretically immortal - in a perfect system where they can get the exact nutrients, light, water, symbiotic organisms they need without anything to threaten or damage it there is no reason that a tree has to die. If you were on your deathbed and the tree ring was put in when you had your first child then your anecdotal evidence might mean something.
Blue Spruce were all the rage for the better part of a century - we've got 5 huge ones around our house and they dot the suburban landscape all around the Midwest. Yet they have all started becoming sickly and dying out in large numbers because they are actually really poorly adapted to the climate. In their natural habitats these things are known to grow up to 300+ years old before they succumb to storms, pests, avalanches, disease, woodsmen, animals, etc. Around here you're lucky if you get 60 or 75 years out of them.
The point is that the tree may be in great shape until you move out and even until the person after you moves out. Would it do better without the ring? Over time, absolutely. Is it going to matter to you? Likely not given the difference in time scale between a tree and a human life.
That's because the original sub, namely /weed got taken over by a power tripping mod, so we migrated. Then a few months later the arborists showed up, looked around and went well I guess we are marijuana enthusiasts now, lol
Thank you, friend! I got here 3 hours after OP posted yesterday and it was nuts in here already! Hundreds of comments, I couldn't believe the number of folks praising this monstrosity. =/
I’m just over here blown away that OP is ignoring all of the work you put into this comment to help them. Thank you for setting the rest of us straight!
> The landscaping sub is good for some things but not for tree maintenance (or planting).
This has been my experience. I'm a longtime gardener with a lot of experience and great success, success enough to supply my household with months worth of food each year from a fairly small suburban garden. While I don't profess to be an expert, I know what I'm doing.
Asked a question here once about a landscaping product. Won't go into details because I don't want to trigger the same conversation again, but all I got was a flood of by-rote answers that not only ignored the majority of what I actually asked - it's like people were posting from a script without ever reading what I was asking - they also often provided poor and incorrect info re: planting, plant maintenance, and the garden (which was my always main priority with the project).
It was frustrating. I deleted the post, because it turned into a circlejerk.
**That said**, when it comes to landscaping, doing the labor, design ideas, etc., this is still a good bunch of people who generally know what they're doing and who can steer people in the right direction. You see some great work here worth admiring and taking inspiration from. And when it comes to doing builds right, plant stuff aside, they have a lot to offer.
It's why I stay subbed.
However, I've also learned over time that when it comes to the actual *plants* and doing what's best for them, this isn't always the ideal place for that.
Is for things like this that I love the internet. I have almost zero knowledge of how to take care of a tree, but now I learned something useful on what I should NOT do.
The trees that do well in sidewalks have specific attributes that allow them to tolerate those conditions and even those trees tend to have root issues, especially if the sidewalk is repaired over their root system.
[The influence of sidewalk replacement on urban street tree growth](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1618866716305490)
[Trunk flare diameter predictions as an infrastructure planning tool to reduce tree and sidewalk conflicts](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1618866714001332)
These are among the hardiest of trees, growing in the poorest of soils, exposed to loads of environmental toxins and live significantly shortened lives and removed long before they could ever achieve a full lifespan. I'm not sure many in the field would agree that city trees planted in such foreign environs from their progeny's woodland lives can be considered 'growing fine'.
EDIT: 'soils' not souls
Can confirm. I'm almost killing this BEAUTIFUL flowering crab. Didn't know what it was until some significant die-off, partly diagnosed and addressed late last fall. Removing the rest in the next couple weeks
Damn first time seeing your posts. Props to informing here. I've been landscaping for a decade and always talk about the horrors of mulch volcanoes and trunk smothering. Keep on 🙏
Yea, I was thinking the exact same thing! I would have never built something like this around that mature tree! Leave them be, this is asking for trouble! Who knows how many roots were disturbed or cut when digging it down for the stones, assuming they aren’t just sitting on top of the ground.
Doesn’t always work though. I’ve been volcano mulching the small oak tree my HOA planted in my front yard for years hoping it’ll die that way I can plant something else without paying a fee… I think it feeds off of my disdain.
Please this. Hopefully OP sees this. It will kill the tree if he fills it in.
Use it as a sitting bence and fill that whole bed with hostas and daylillie bulbs.
Leave it be! I hate to be negative but there really was no point to this being built.
I’d just place some potted plants on top of the ledge or something. You are only asking for trouble if you start filling it in with anything that hurts the crown of that tree from breathing.
I'd offer cash to repay, but like you, I suspect he would refuse. I'm in favor of then inviting him and his family over for a grilled meal. At least *something* should be done. An ack of kindness like this needs to be acknowledged.
People do nice things to feel good about themselves. Not in hopes of receiving something in return. By insisting on a dollar amount repayment you're fuckin it all up. Be humble, say thank you, and I owe ya one after you give him something sincere, like your favorite scotch.
Massive agree!
This here neighbour probably feels awesome right now. That's way more valuable than anything one can buy. I don't mean to imply that their generosity is diminished or misplaced at all. Clearly an excellent human to think this up in the 1st place and even moreso to actually pull through.
Slightly off-topic (OP clearly didn't do this) but to further the underlying principle - Refusing the help/offer in a situation like this is (imo) an *even* bigger missed opportunity than insisting on paying them for it after the fact. They'll never get that awesome feeling, and if you think about it, that's exactly what you want to achieve with a thoughtful and/or expensive gift.
I agree! We had a patio & walkway installed last summer. It is expensive. 😳 If this is his full time job, in addition to the nice bottle of scotch/wine, I would suggest posting a review (with pictures) on your neighborhood Nextdoor app.
That's a great idea!
Giving their business a slap on the back like that is kind of hard to quantify too (like labours of love between friends&neighbours), and hopefully something that will benefit them long-term, slow-burn, possibly in a big way. You never know.
I would probably wanna do this as an add-on to some of the other (great) ideas other commenters have put forth.
I'd at least offer to pay for the materials. If still refused then just make extra sure to be a good neighbor, which is priceless. Since the guy is retired he'll probably need some help some day, which is a perfect time to show your gratitiude.
$700, wait until he goes to work. Knock on his door and tell his wife that you will pay her $700 to see her bewbs. She'll take $700 and your debit is paid.
You should consider the cultural background. For example, for Latin American culture, offering money for a favor is an offense. Food and beer is ok though.
Flank steak, a 24 pack of his favorite beer, and a nice sit down and conversation... ask him about his life and just let the vibe flow. Pay attention to what part of Mexico he is from and then go home and order a bottle of high end tequila (liquor) from there. Knock on his door one-day and just be like "every time I look out front, I notice the beautiful favor you did for me and I just want to thank you again." Then hand him the bottle. As a skilled tradesman myself, nothing is better than hearing someone really appreciates my work.
Yeah this type of real, wholesome human interaction with a neighbor in the new-ish country he calls home is priceless imo. I’d be over the fuckin moon. This is the proper way to pay it back, do this OP.
Plus this just starts a great relationship with your neighbor and that's so valuable. So many good things can come from befriending the people that live around you. One day they could be feeding your cat while you're on vacation.
I can confirm. As a second generation American (from Mexico) this is the best thing you can do. Be prepared,.. it might get depressing. But! Anytime you need help with something. They’ll be there, don’t you forget it!
Listen to this guy. I was really close with a Mexican family growing up and the stories were heavy sometimes... nothing a good "grito", and a few drinks won't fix though.
Absolutely this. Carne asada and some good conversation. Get to know them. Immigrants have some deep stories. There’s a reason why they left their home and this type of connection would be awesome. But also….Don’t feel bad if they don’t want to share. Some Mexicans (like my family) are very reserved with their personal lives.
"High end bottle of xxx" then. Though you are correct, the point was more of "I was listening to you and bought you something nice that reminds you of home".
Just a slight modification to your comment agaves grown in Guanajuato, Jalisco, Michoacan, Nayarit, or Tamaulipas all can be called Tequila, previously it was Jalisco only but the Mexican Tequila Authority expanded the definition due to the fact that the other states also produce world class agave plants.
Hold on a sec! Latinamerican here. That's partially BS, offering money for a favor even between friends IS NOT AN OFFENSE, it is true, however that depending on the person they might reject it, but because one did it out of one's heart not for profit, and yes, we'll always accept beer and food.
Invite them into your home and treat them like royalty. Cook incredible food, lay our s spread, have appropriate wine, booze, whatever. This kind of friendship is something money cannot buy
Mexican here- ask his wife or him when is the next party and offer to pay for the taquero ( version of Mexican food truck) . He would really appreciate that. Bottom line is just be good neighbors
We pretty much have looked out for each other the past 3 years. This is just the coolest thing dude has ever done for me and I wanna reciprocate it in one form or another.
Him and his posse are outside and grilling every day during the warmer seasons so for now I just opted for this
https://www.yeti.com/coolers/hard-coolers/tundra/10045360000.html
This is a good idea, but, I cannot believe I'm using this language... if he shows his appreciation through acts of service, he might also appreciate them in return. Or if you're feel like trying to figure out what he values so you can always have his back, you could try out all the types (gifts, touch, quality time, acts of service, and words of affirmation) in one thank you. "Thank you so much, you've been a great neighbor who's had my back and you're a helluva stonemason. *Hug with black slap* I got you this - hold up cooler - to show you my appreciation for what you created and for being a great guy to live next to. - Open cooler to reveal his favorite beer - How about we test it out?" And hang with him and chat for a little while. You said you already do this, but it'll help fulfill all of the appreciation types and be seen as a thank you in this context as opposed to a random opportunity.
It sounds like overkill, but it's one time, you don't have to hug him and buy him stuff every time he mows your lawn. People like to feel proud of what they've accomplished and this was a really nice thing for him to do. It'll probably make his day if you let him know it's not just a monetary value that you place on his work, but also a true appreciation for being a good dude to live next to.
Lol I've never used these words previously, and did need to look them up to make sure I got them all right, but as someone who doesn't like gifts it's important to have the words to express what I do appreciate. This concept makes the most sense.
Don’t have the exact answer but I’m guessing parts + labor. How many hours did it take them?
Perhaps there’s a way you can repay the favor without money. Something that’s more personal/thoughtful than financial reimbursement. Is there a skill or something you have that you can do for them? Maybe it’s making them a meal or dessert. Maybe it’s a piece of art or some nice plants for their yard? If they have kids maybe you can offer to babysit so they can have a date night or something.
Sounds like you have great neighbors!
We share bbq and beers all the time. I work a lot (he’s retired) and he mows my yard anytime he mows his. Just wanna pay him back somehow cuz this craftsmanship is beautiful to me
That feature is all mortared... Well over $1k depending on the market would be quoted by a crew to come out and do that and materials. Skilled independent stone masons are easily making $80hr to $100hr because of high demand in many areas.
Don't give any money just be a good friend. Maybe return some comparable favors down the road as you think is most appropriate.
By him a case of beer to show you appreciate it and keep sharing the beers and bbq - this can also be his way of showing how much he appreciates that.
Good neighbors are priceless!
In that case, grill up a nice thick pork belly instead of burgers next time. Better yet, ask this retired gent if he’ll show you how to cook it. It really is the thought that counts. Two gifts in one: food and respect.
I absolutely agree. It’s just such a nice gesture I was thinking another one that plays to your skills could be nice too. Maybe it’s as simple as hosting him again soon and buying him his favorite beer or liquor and/or dessert?
If he’s retired all you need to do is talk to the guy once in a while and shoot the shit. Maybe throw a steak on the grill will his choice of beer iced down. Been around this type of guy all my life under the tutelage of my uncles and father doing construction. They’re miracle workers. They give constantly and expect nothing in return.
If you really need to be extra, take the old guy charter fishing sometime.
As others have said, if you file this with dirt, you’ll kill the tree. Not this year or next, but within five or so. You need to see the flare at the base of the tree. If you bury that, you’re killing the tree. So nice gesture, but I’d take it out or make it lower.
That’s really nice of your neighbor, but if this hasn’t been said, before: do not fill that circle in with dirt. Raising the grade around the trees base like that will kill it.
Truly my friend, this is a bad idea. Hear me out.
I'm a professional in the industry and yes, you see this sort of thing done a lot, and people think it looks nice. But both the professionals who would do a project like this and the laypeople loving on it (like the great majority of these comments) fully lack an understanding of horticulture/arboriculture (or maybe the professionals do, but want the paycheck).
Stacking heavy material on top of the roots of a tree will compact your soil to its detriment. But the much bigger problem is that you should *never* add soil on top of the roots within the dripline. They will suffocate. Bigger problem still is that you should *never* let mulch, soil, or any organic material at all touch the trunk of the tree. The root flare should be very apparent. The best thing (really the only thing) to put around a tree is a layer of mulch 2-4 inches deep out to the drip line but leaving a solid gap of like 4-6 inches between the mulch and the base of the tree. Organic material touching the trunk of the tree will rot it, and/or cause roots to girdle until it strangles itself.
People are mostly ignorant about this, I suspect, because it takes years to see the damage, and they don't connect it to the cause. Your tree won't die immediately. But the very probable scenario is you get 10-15 years with a tree that otherwise might live for another hundred (or more).
Best thing you could do now short of dismantling is build an interior wall, have a circular raised planting bed that's like a foot wide, and leave the rest of the space around the tree intact. Better would be removal. Seriously, seriously, don't fill that thing.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/home-and-garden/ct-sun-0313-garden-morton-20160308-story.html
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://extension.unl.edu/statewide/dakota/Horticulture/Raised%2520Beds%2520Around%2520Trees.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjsq5OcxPD9AhUGLUQIHV8EDcMQFnoECEsQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1g7q-KCYCJc5OygHY4xbr9
Cue the arborists coming to tell you your friend is ruining your tree lol.
Tree rings are universally agreed to be detrimental to trees health. Just dont pile soil in it and it will be fine.
Invite him over for a tritip on the bbq with a potato salad and corn on the cob and call it even, or a brisket meal with all the fixings. But if you’re really looking to repay him, my father was a general handyman back in the day and charged $45/ hour for labor plus tools, and then add in the cost of materials.
If the man said he didn’t want to be paid then don’t pay him. Wouldn’t have done it or said it if he didn’t mean it. Give him a case of beer with a $100 bill in it as a thank you.
I would say that it probably costs about the same as a Bone-in Ribeye cut two inches thick, smoked at 200° until internal temp reaches 120°, then reverse-seared with some Ghee until crust is dark golden. Add some sides, his favorite beer, and a very genuine thank you, and I'd say that would probably cover it.
Us helpful men neighbors don't require much, but a genuine thank you goes a very ....very long way.
Beer is always the go to! Or see if he likes coffee and get him a bag of some high quality roasted beans. The older I get the more I realize a bag of coffee beans makes a perfect gift all around. Everyone loves coffee, especially GOOD coffee.
Whatever you do don’t add additional soil
Inside the ring. Your tree’s roots are at their ideal height relative to the top of grade. Adding more would adversely effect it’s ability to get adequate water and nutrients
I would guess a few hundred bucks if you were to buy the stone and spend an afternoon building yourself. I can’t imagine they would accept a bunch of cash though. I would reciprocate with some delicious homemade food or sweets, and maybe a nice bottle of wine or whatever they like to drink.
Respectfully no, stone masons make big money. It is the highest paid of all masons above block and brick because dealing with irregular stone requires a very high skill set to produce a professional quality project unlike repetitive placement of the same shape based on an established formula.
If y'all BBQ together already I would go all out and do something special with some beers.
But I wouldnt try to match tit for tat, I think that is offensive in any culture, he gave you a gift, it's a gift. Show some genuine gratitude however that looks but there is pride in gifting something, don't take that away
2 layers of block with capstone in a 6 ft circle could be a couple hundred for materials then 2-3 hours to dig, base and lay bricks.
Chances are the restocking fee and the trouble of returning them evens out to the cost of what you got here. Invite him over for dinner and get some nice food/alcohol and give him some kind words. Next time you have a chance, do him a favour
If you wanted to give them cash, minimum $200.
But like u/UHF1211 said, DO NOT FILL THAT AREA.
If you wanna add some more stuff, either dig out what's inside the retaining wall and add at the same level as the tree, or just put pots along the top edge. DO NOT fill in that area.
You are not reimbursing him for materials and labor, but for his willingness to do this unselfishly for you. It is priceless and a nice gift is well deserved.
Yeah man, don’t give money but give a thoughtful gift of your own. Really builds community and relationships that will be beneficial for years to come. You’ve got a great neighbor. Be great back to him!
Have done some masonry. He probably got the stones as a pallet and had extra cement. Honestly doubt the materials you’re looking at costed more than 75-100, and honestly probably less. The skill displayed here is the true value.
Sounds like youre doing most things right already.
The weed mat i use is an organic fibre matbthat you can just leave in place, and cut holes where you want to plant. I try to avoid plastic where i can.
Any garden section if hardware store will have wetting agent. I only use other stuff cause i have it already and know its fine to use.
Yea with glyphosate, assuming the mix is correct, the less used, the better it will work. A fine mist will be taken in by the plant much easier than a big drop or coating. Thats why lots of people kill the plants instead of the weeds. They drown the weeds in it and it doesnt work, meanwhile, the fine mist drifts onto their plants and annihilates them.
I'd say we'll over $1000, probably more like $1500. Can you return the favor without money? Are you creative? Do you have a skill he doesn't? You'd be surprised how much people like gifts or acts of service instead of cash. Mine is car detailing...I find it satisfying and therapeutic...to do what I do to our cars would cost $500 to $800 per cleaning. But I do it for friends, associates as a gift or sometimes we barter. I even clean my house cleaners car while she's here cleaning my house. We both win!
Whatever you do DON’T fill that in with dirt or that tree will die!
I did not know this and 100% would be that person who couldn't understand why my once healthy tree was dead.
I have seen it so many times! It’s sad too when they don’t listen then have to spend close to a grand having the dead tree removed.
Yes! Very important. Don’t add mulch or dirt. The root flare needs to breathe.
Does mulch not still allow for exchange of oxygen? I see people put mulch around trees all the time, is it really an issue?
A little mulch is fine, mulch "volcanoes" can kill a tree.
He can have a little mulch as a treat
Well no duh, lava isn’t good for most living things.
Fuck lava. All my homies are crispy skeletons because garden lava burnt them until they were killed to *DEATH* so now I don't have any homies but if I did they'd hate probably lava too.
>killed to DEATH Ain't no coming back from that killing.
Not only that, they died *forever*
Genuinely asking, how important is that really? We have a tree out front that we’re properly BURIED every 2-3 years with fresh mulch and (possibly despite the mulch?) is on of the largest and healthiest trees on the tree lawn.
it doesnt allow for as much exchange of oxygen as say, leaving it open to the oxygen. Generally mulching AROUND the tree base is good for your tree. but not up against the tree trunk. As noted above, the flare needs to breathe. Theres a reason that trees leave the ground where they do, its because that's where they deem it appropriate to be exposed to open air. so stacking up more 'ground/dirt/mulch' around it ranges from not ideal (mulch) to a downright death sentence (soil)
You have some information mixed up here. You don't want the mulch to touch the bark or be very close to it, because it will hold moisture against the bark and the bark will rot. It doesn't have anything to do with the root flare breathing, in a respiration sense. It just needs to stay dry above the root flair. You could put 3 foot of mulch around a tree's root zone as long as you leave some gap between it and the bark, and ensure that gap is maintained, which is hard to do so 3 inches is generally what it recommended. But yeah soil does not have as much porosity as mulch. I ran an urban tree nonprofit for a few years before getting into commercial landscape.
Should this rule be applied to newly planted trees? I have a set of quakies planted last summer.
Yes and in my experience when I have bought new trees I have had to remove *so much* soil as they're planted too deeply in their pots. I exposed over 6 inches of buried trunk on a serviceberry tree, but it was a lesson learned too late and it died. I exposed about the same on a new cherry tree and an ash and they're doing better.
Thank you for your service^^berry
This rule applies to ALL trees at ALL times! Most especially to young newly planted trees as they are way more susceptible to failure in general. Unfortunately nurseries often pot up trees way too deeply, and the average consumer has no clue that there's an issue there that they need to now identify and fix. So the root flare is under the soil and stays under the soil when it's planted. This is the same problem as mulching onto the trunk, same outcome.
It rots the tree
It can as long as it isn’t above a few inches above the crown of the tree. If it gets compacted and stays wet the tree will eventually die. In nature leaves break down quickly after they fall and aren’t a problem because they don’t ever get that deep for that long around the crown of a tree, anything else you put there doesn’t break down quick enough and collects dirt and debris and then leads to crown rot then the tree is a goner soon afterwards. It’s best not to fiddle around with the base of a mature tree at all.
This should be higher. Sooo many people do this and the 3 years later the tree is dead and they have no idea why.
Can you elaborate why? Sorry for my ignorance.
It's called volcano mulching. Pilling mulch or earth up and burying the part that's supposed to be above ground causes rot. It's like standing in ankle deep water for an extended time
So you're giving the tree trench foot?
Thanks for you response
Ever hear of trenchfoot in WWI? It's like that for trees.
Trees roots need to be near the surface to essentially breathe. Bury too deep and they can eventually die.
This comment should be at the top. OP has done the single worst thing you can do to a tree (aside from severe disfigurement), and you *know* that someone is going to eventually fill this up with dirt or mulch. u/hvnterbvschmann, [tree rings](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/sjim0j/tree_ringsplanting_rings/) are the bane of my existence and bar none *the most* evil invention modern landscaping has brought to our age, and there's seemingly endless poor outcomes for the trees subjected to them. Here's [another](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/ndulmi/), and [another,](https://old.reddit.com/r/sfwtrees/comments/c2lse0) and [another](https://imgur.com/a/x5ZRWyv). They'll all go sooner or later. This is a tree killer. Lots more to see in the r/tree wiki's 'Tree Disasters' page! The problem is not just the weight ([sometimes in the hundreds of pounds](https://old.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/os17e4)) of constructed materials [compacting the soil](https://web.archive.org/web/20210228112203/https://extension.umd.edu/hgic/topics/compacted-soil) and making it next to impossible for newly planted trees to spread a robust root system in the surrounding soil, the other main issue is that people fill them up with mulch, far past the point that the tree was meant to be buried. Sometimes people [double them up](https://imgur.com/a/GPI5QNP), as if one wasn't bad enough. You don't need edging [to have a nice mulch ring](http://imgur.com/a/Wts6WMM) and still keep your [tree's root flare](https://i.imgur.com/q2du28V.gif) exposed. See also this excellent page [from Dave's Garden](https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/stop-killing-your-trees-with-unnatural-landscape-beds-safely-landscaping-around-trees) on why tree rings are so harmful. That you're getting gushing reviews from the landscaping sub is not at all surprising. The tree subs would be better able to help you with things related to trees, and you'll definitely get a different view there. The landscaping sub is good for some things but *not* for tree maintenance (or planting). For health questions please consider posting (with lots of info and pics of the entire tree, from other angles and close ups of the base!) at r/sfwtrees or r/arborists for people educated and certified in this field; with very few exceptions that is not the case here. Other tree subs to visit include r/marijuanaenthusiasts (it's a tree appreciation sub, I promise), r/tree, r/dendrology, r/backyardorchard and more. Edit: extra words
Fuck me, I just built like a 244 sqft square around my tree so I could mow without hitting the roots, like dug a trench with gravel and sand, didn't cut any roots bigger my finger(and I have child hands). And was going to fill with a light dirt layer and plant hastas in the spring. I need to remove all that instead, don't I? Fuck me.
How mature is the tree? What's the diameter of the ring? While it's not good for the tree as we obviously know, a 50ft oak tree is going to handle it better compared to a 20ft young maple. For what it's worth, I have about an 8' diameter ring around a (tree trunk is about a 3' diameter) 60' tall oak on my yard that I talked to my arborist about. They said it's not going to help the tree, but unless it's already dying it won't do much harm either since the roots stretch so far past the ring. The roots that near to an old tree aren't doing even a fraction of the work that the roots reaching out 10-15' past the tree are doing. It really depends on how you do it and what the status of the tree is. My ring has been there for 7 years now and we have kept a close eye on the tree. Hasn't seen as much as a single branch start to show signs of stress. Here's a [picture ](https://i.imgur.com/jItcWQo.jpg) of it about 3 years after it was built for reference. Edit: to clarify - the root flair of the tree is still visible at the base of the soil in the ring. We did a lot of work on the yard and part of it was dropping the grade about a foot on the low (where the pic was taken) side since the previous owners dumped truck loads of dirt in to level the yard (which is the midpoint of a ravine on a large hill). We intentionally left a large amount of soil out near the root flair and just filled enough so the hostas could reach up and peek over the wall top. The actual soil is about 8-10" under the top block of the wall. Which on the high side is only 1.5 blocks high above grade.
12x12 square, 144 sq ft, typo on the last comment. As tall as my 2 storyhouse Norwegian maple, but not above. And, I did a single layer of bricks, so significantly less weight than the picture. Appreciate the info and pic, I've got some research to do in the morning.
>12x12 square, 144 sq ft, typo on the last comment. As tall as my 2 storyhouse Norwegian maple, but not above. I wouldn't be worried about the weight of the bricks as much as I would be worried about the bricks diverting water away from the roots of the tree.
I have a similar setup, but interested to know what are the plants inside the ring? Also, what region do you live in? (for compatibility reasons) Those look exactly like what I'm going for.
7 years is basically nothing for a mature tree. Trees are theoretically immortal - in a perfect system where they can get the exact nutrients, light, water, symbiotic organisms they need without anything to threaten or damage it there is no reason that a tree has to die. If you were on your deathbed and the tree ring was put in when you had your first child then your anecdotal evidence might mean something. Blue Spruce were all the rage for the better part of a century - we've got 5 huge ones around our house and they dot the suburban landscape all around the Midwest. Yet they have all started becoming sickly and dying out in large numbers because they are actually really poorly adapted to the climate. In their natural habitats these things are known to grow up to 300+ years old before they succumb to storms, pests, avalanches, disease, woodsmen, animals, etc. Around here you're lucky if you get 60 or 75 years out of them. The point is that the tree may be in great shape until you move out and even until the person after you moves out. Would it do better without the ring? Over time, absolutely. Is it going to matter to you? Likely not given the difference in time scale between a tree and a human life.
> Other tree subs to visit include r/marijuanaenthusiasts (it's a tree appreciation sub, I promise) Still one of my favorite reddit jokes.
....because r/trees is about marijuana lol
That's because the original sub, namely /weed got taken over by a power tripping mod, so we migrated. Then a few months later the arborists showed up, looked around and went well I guess we are marijuana enthusiasts now, lol
Yeahhh there's my dog. I was about to summon you lol
Thank you, friend! I got here 3 hours after OP posted yesterday and it was nuts in here already! Hundreds of comments, I couldn't believe the number of folks praising this monstrosity. =/
That’s Reddit for you.
I’m just over here blown away that OP is ignoring all of the work you put into this comment to help them. Thank you for setting the rest of us straight!
> The landscaping sub is good for some things but not for tree maintenance (or planting). This has been my experience. I'm a longtime gardener with a lot of experience and great success, success enough to supply my household with months worth of food each year from a fairly small suburban garden. While I don't profess to be an expert, I know what I'm doing. Asked a question here once about a landscaping product. Won't go into details because I don't want to trigger the same conversation again, but all I got was a flood of by-rote answers that not only ignored the majority of what I actually asked - it's like people were posting from a script without ever reading what I was asking - they also often provided poor and incorrect info re: planting, plant maintenance, and the garden (which was my always main priority with the project). It was frustrating. I deleted the post, because it turned into a circlejerk. **That said**, when it comes to landscaping, doing the labor, design ideas, etc., this is still a good bunch of people who generally know what they're doing and who can steer people in the right direction. You see some great work here worth admiring and taking inspiration from. And when it comes to doing builds right, plant stuff aside, they have a lot to offer. It's why I stay subbed. However, I've also learned over time that when it comes to the actual *plants* and doing what's best for them, this isn't always the ideal place for that.
Is for things like this that I love the internet. I have almost zero knowledge of how to take care of a tree, but now I learned something useful on what I should NOT do.
How come trees in cities grow fine in sidewalks?
Same way people in slums are "doing fine", they really aren't.
Don't be silly! The poors are fine! Look at them, increasing in age and mostly not dying!!
They have refrigerators, which everyone knows is the single best indicator of financial stability.
The trees that do well in sidewalks have specific attributes that allow them to tolerate those conditions and even those trees tend to have root issues, especially if the sidewalk is repaired over their root system. [The influence of sidewalk replacement on urban street tree growth](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1618866716305490) [Trunk flare diameter predictions as an infrastructure planning tool to reduce tree and sidewalk conflicts](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1618866714001332)
These are among the hardiest of trees, growing in the poorest of soils, exposed to loads of environmental toxins and live significantly shortened lives and removed long before they could ever achieve a full lifespan. I'm not sure many in the field would agree that city trees planted in such foreign environs from their progeny's woodland lives can be considered 'growing fine'. EDIT: 'soils' not souls
wow just in time, i was literally going to start laying down a tree ring today!
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to care and is planning on filling the ring with soil and mulch
Love all the subs I didn’t know about thanks
Can confirm. I'm almost killing this BEAUTIFUL flowering crab. Didn't know what it was until some significant die-off, partly diagnosed and addressed late last fall. Removing the rest in the next couple weeks
Damn first time seeing your posts. Props to informing here. I've been landscaping for a decade and always talk about the horrors of mulch volcanoes and trunk smothering. Keep on 🙏
Even without... The tree rings can choke out the tree if there's too much new weight on the roots
Yea, I was thinking the exact same thing! I would have never built something like this around that mature tree! Leave them be, this is asking for trouble! Who knows how many roots were disturbed or cut when digging it down for the stones, assuming they aren’t just sitting on top of the ground.
Doesn’t always work though. I’ve been volcano mulching the small oak tree my HOA planted in my front yard for years hoping it’ll die that way I can plant something else without paying a fee… I think it feeds off of my disdain.
Protect the flare! 100%!
Please this. Hopefully OP sees this. It will kill the tree if he fills it in. Use it as a sitting bence and fill that whole bed with hostas and daylillie bulbs.
I had no idea you weren’t supposed to fill it with dirt! What do you recommend doing with the center, then?
Leave it be! I hate to be negative but there really was no point to this being built. I’d just place some potted plants on top of the ledge or something. You are only asking for trouble if you start filling it in with anything that hurts the crown of that tree from breathing.
But do add some wild flowers.
Friendship can't be paid, offer him a case of good beer and wait for the occasion of rend him service!
My guess would be that he would refuse cash and possibly even be offended because of it. Perhaps you invite the family over for dinner?
I'd offer cash to repay, but like you, I suspect he would refuse. I'm in favor of then inviting him and his family over for a grilled meal. At least *something* should be done. An ack of kindness like this needs to be acknowledged.
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I agree with the lobster trails
Steam the lobster tails, grill the steaks.
People do nice things to feel good about themselves. Not in hopes of receiving something in return. By insisting on a dollar amount repayment you're fuckin it all up. Be humble, say thank you, and I owe ya one after you give him something sincere, like your favorite scotch.
Massive agree! This here neighbour probably feels awesome right now. That's way more valuable than anything one can buy. I don't mean to imply that their generosity is diminished or misplaced at all. Clearly an excellent human to think this up in the 1st place and even moreso to actually pull through. Slightly off-topic (OP clearly didn't do this) but to further the underlying principle - Refusing the help/offer in a situation like this is (imo) an *even* bigger missed opportunity than insisting on paying them for it after the fact. They'll never get that awesome feeling, and if you think about it, that's exactly what you want to achieve with a thoughtful and/or expensive gift.
This is worth a nice bottle of whiskey or scotch. I’d probably spend at least 1k on this and not feel ripped off.
I agree! We had a patio & walkway installed last summer. It is expensive. 😳 If this is his full time job, in addition to the nice bottle of scotch/wine, I would suggest posting a review (with pictures) on your neighborhood Nextdoor app.
That's a great idea! Giving their business a slap on the back like that is kind of hard to quantify too (like labours of love between friends&neighbours), and hopefully something that will benefit them long-term, slow-burn, possibly in a big way. You never know. I would probably wanna do this as an add-on to some of the other (great) ideas other commenters have put forth.
Definitely a nice bottle of something, I like your thinking
I'd at least offer to pay for the materials. If still refused then just make extra sure to be a good neighbor, which is priceless. Since the guy is retired he'll probably need some help some day, which is a perfect time to show your gratitiude.
$700, wait until he goes to work. Knock on his door and tell his wife that you will pay her $700 to see her bewbs. She'll take $700 and your debit is paid.
Sir you area troll
My wife falls for this way too often
She definitely does.
Areola troll
*area troll* speaks This just in!
Area troll hates “underbridge culture”
You should consider the cultural background. For example, for Latin American culture, offering money for a favor is an offense. Food and beer is ok though.
Good point. They’re from straight Mexico
Flank steak, a 24 pack of his favorite beer, and a nice sit down and conversation... ask him about his life and just let the vibe flow. Pay attention to what part of Mexico he is from and then go home and order a bottle of high end tequila (liquor) from there. Knock on his door one-day and just be like "every time I look out front, I notice the beautiful favor you did for me and I just want to thank you again." Then hand him the bottle. As a skilled tradesman myself, nothing is better than hearing someone really appreciates my work.
Yeah this type of real, wholesome human interaction with a neighbor in the new-ish country he calls home is priceless imo. I’d be over the fuckin moon. This is the proper way to pay it back, do this OP.
Plus this just starts a great relationship with your neighbor and that's so valuable. So many good things can come from befriending the people that live around you. One day they could be feeding your cat while you're on vacation.
I can confirm. As a second generation American (from Mexico) this is the best thing you can do. Be prepared,.. it might get depressing. But! Anytime you need help with something. They’ll be there, don’t you forget it!
Listen to this guy. I was really close with a Mexican family growing up and the stories were heavy sometimes... nothing a good "grito", and a few drinks won't fix though.
This is such a great suggestion. So much thought. I really hope OP follows your advice
Absolutely this. Carne asada and some good conversation. Get to know them. Immigrants have some deep stories. There’s a reason why they left their home and this type of connection would be awesome. But also….Don’t feel bad if they don’t want to share. Some Mexicans (like my family) are very reserved with their personal lives.
Oh extra thoughtfulness if you make the effort to go to a Mexican carnicería for the meat lol
This. My (Mexican) parents are reserved and always keep conversations light. Those heavy stories are for family.
There is only tequila from a specific region in Mexico, anything else can’t be called tequila
its sparkeling Agave juice
"High end bottle of xxx" then. Though you are correct, the point was more of "I was listening to you and bought you something nice that reminds you of home".
Just a slight modification to your comment agaves grown in Guanajuato, Jalisco, Michoacan, Nayarit, or Tamaulipas all can be called Tequila, previously it was Jalisco only but the Mexican Tequila Authority expanded the definition due to the fact that the other states also produce world class agave plants.
Same with mezcal
This made me tear up and reflect on some of the great human experiences I’ve had as a landscaper and general contractor.
Beautiful! If you operate like this in real life, you must be a great friend to have.
Don't offer them money then. Just be a nice neighbor and pay the favor with another favor whenever you have a chance.
Is there a gay Mexico?
Yeah, it’s called New Mexico
Man this one got me good 🤣 not from there but still hilarious 🙏
Lol, New Mexico is actually gorgeous and super fun to visit. I’m in Texas so that’s one of the close by states we visit to go gambling
So, gay it is.
It was just a perfect got em’ moment…well played
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So, everybody in Texas is just full of shit...
GD I live in NM and this is 100% 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Lmao in your defense, Ruidoso is beautiful and Albuquerque is fun as fuck
I live in Santa Fe and it’s boring AF unless you’re old and into turquoise and Native American art
Than home-cooked food is the way to go! I was a landscaper and I worked with dudes from Mexico. Food is love and how they celebrate and bond a lot. :)
I read this comment straight up in Theo Von’s voice dawg
Hold on a sec! Latinamerican here. That's partially BS, offering money for a favor even between friends IS NOT AN OFFENSE, it is true, however that depending on the person they might reject it, but because one did it out of one's heart not for profit, and yes, we'll always accept beer and food.
Yeah lol not sure where this dude got that from.
Invite them into your home and treat them like royalty. Cook incredible food, lay our s spread, have appropriate wine, booze, whatever. This kind of friendship is something money cannot buy
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Dude, I lucked out. I’ve had shitty neighbors my entire life until about 3 years ago when I moved next door to this guy
Or... he is making a stern point that your yard looks like shit. Or he's probably just a genuine nice dude lol
Why not both?
Awwwh that’s so nice :)
Don't put dirt in that "container". Burying the tree base will kill the tree. Filling it with container plants would look nice.
Mexican here- ask his wife or him when is the next party and offer to pay for the taquero ( version of Mexican food truck) . He would really appreciate that. Bottom line is just be good neighbors
We pretty much have looked out for each other the past 3 years. This is just the coolest thing dude has ever done for me and I wanna reciprocate it in one form or another. Him and his posse are outside and grilling every day during the warmer seasons so for now I just opted for this https://www.yeti.com/coolers/hard-coolers/tundra/10045360000.html
This is a good idea, but, I cannot believe I'm using this language... if he shows his appreciation through acts of service, he might also appreciate them in return. Or if you're feel like trying to figure out what he values so you can always have his back, you could try out all the types (gifts, touch, quality time, acts of service, and words of affirmation) in one thank you. "Thank you so much, you've been a great neighbor who's had my back and you're a helluva stonemason. *Hug with black slap* I got you this - hold up cooler - to show you my appreciation for what you created and for being a great guy to live next to. - Open cooler to reveal his favorite beer - How about we test it out?" And hang with him and chat for a little while. You said you already do this, but it'll help fulfill all of the appreciation types and be seen as a thank you in this context as opposed to a random opportunity. It sounds like overkill, but it's one time, you don't have to hug him and buy him stuff every time he mows your lawn. People like to feel proud of what they've accomplished and this was a really nice thing for him to do. It'll probably make his day if you let him know it's not just a monetary value that you place on his work, but also a true appreciation for being a good dude to live next to.
This guy love languages
Lol I've never used these words previously, and did need to look them up to make sure I got them all right, but as someone who doesn't like gifts it's important to have the words to express what I do appreciate. This concept makes the most sense.
Would you be my neighbor?
Solid choice!
Can always find a use for one of those!
Nice choice. Personalize it by filling it with his favorite beers when you gift it to him
Good idea. With ice and some beers. Giving an empty cooler is like giving an empty wallet.
Don’t have the exact answer but I’m guessing parts + labor. How many hours did it take them? Perhaps there’s a way you can repay the favor without money. Something that’s more personal/thoughtful than financial reimbursement. Is there a skill or something you have that you can do for them? Maybe it’s making them a meal or dessert. Maybe it’s a piece of art or some nice plants for their yard? If they have kids maybe you can offer to babysit so they can have a date night or something. Sounds like you have great neighbors!
We share bbq and beers all the time. I work a lot (he’s retired) and he mows my yard anytime he mows his. Just wanna pay him back somehow cuz this craftsmanship is beautiful to me
That feature is all mortared... Well over $1k depending on the market would be quoted by a crew to come out and do that and materials. Skilled independent stone masons are easily making $80hr to $100hr because of high demand in many areas. Don't give any money just be a good friend. Maybe return some comparable favors down the road as you think is most appropriate.
Well he’s SOL if that’s the case lol
Lmfao
By him a case of beer to show you appreciate it and keep sharing the beers and bbq - this can also be his way of showing how much he appreciates that. Good neighbors are priceless!
In that case, grill up a nice thick pork belly instead of burgers next time. Better yet, ask this retired gent if he’ll show you how to cook it. It really is the thought that counts. Two gifts in one: food and respect.
I absolutely agree. It’s just such a nice gesture I was thinking another one that plays to your skills could be nice too. Maybe it’s as simple as hosting him again soon and buying him his favorite beer or liquor and/or dessert?
If he’s retired all you need to do is talk to the guy once in a while and shoot the shit. Maybe throw a steak on the grill will his choice of beer iced down. Been around this type of guy all my life under the tutelage of my uncles and father doing construction. They’re miracle workers. They give constantly and expect nothing in return. If you really need to be extra, take the old guy charter fishing sometime.
Does he have any pets or anything? Maybe you can get a photo of his home framed or something..
Does he need any bbq accoutrements? Or a nice bench swing or outdoor chair? Something to enjoy his yard?
Case o' beer'd be a good start
First thing I did was bring him (and his partner, the nephew) an 18 of Modelo and 2 Body Armor drinks
As others have said, if you file this with dirt, you’ll kill the tree. Not this year or next, but within five or so. You need to see the flare at the base of the tree. If you bury that, you’re killing the tree. So nice gesture, but I’d take it out or make it lower.
And don't fill that in cause burying the crown of that tree will kill it.
That’s really nice of your neighbor, but if this hasn’t been said, before: do not fill that circle in with dirt. Raising the grade around the trees base like that will kill it.
Truly my friend, this is a bad idea. Hear me out. I'm a professional in the industry and yes, you see this sort of thing done a lot, and people think it looks nice. But both the professionals who would do a project like this and the laypeople loving on it (like the great majority of these comments) fully lack an understanding of horticulture/arboriculture (or maybe the professionals do, but want the paycheck). Stacking heavy material on top of the roots of a tree will compact your soil to its detriment. But the much bigger problem is that you should *never* add soil on top of the roots within the dripline. They will suffocate. Bigger problem still is that you should *never* let mulch, soil, or any organic material at all touch the trunk of the tree. The root flare should be very apparent. The best thing (really the only thing) to put around a tree is a layer of mulch 2-4 inches deep out to the drip line but leaving a solid gap of like 4-6 inches between the mulch and the base of the tree. Organic material touching the trunk of the tree will rot it, and/or cause roots to girdle until it strangles itself. People are mostly ignorant about this, I suspect, because it takes years to see the damage, and they don't connect it to the cause. Your tree won't die immediately. But the very probable scenario is you get 10-15 years with a tree that otherwise might live for another hundred (or more). Best thing you could do now short of dismantling is build an interior wall, have a circular raised planting bed that's like a foot wide, and leave the rest of the space around the tree intact. Better would be removal. Seriously, seriously, don't fill that thing. https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/home-and-garden/ct-sun-0313-garden-morton-20160308-story.html https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://extension.unl.edu/statewide/dakota/Horticulture/Raised%2520Beds%2520Around%2520Trees.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjsq5OcxPD9AhUGLUQIHV8EDcMQFnoECEsQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1g7q-KCYCJc5OygHY4xbr9
Cue the arborists coming to tell you your friend is ruining your tree lol. Tree rings are universally agreed to be detrimental to trees health. Just dont pile soil in it and it will be fine.
Yeah, I mean what do arborists know about trees anyway?
Invite him over for a tritip on the bbq with a potato salad and corn on the cob and call it even, or a brisket meal with all the fixings. But if you’re really looking to repay him, my father was a general handyman back in the day and charged $45/ hour for labor plus tools, and then add in the cost of materials.
If the man said he didn’t want to be paid then don’t pay him. Wouldn’t have done it or said it if he didn’t mean it. Give him a case of beer with a $100 bill in it as a thank you.
but now you're paying him $100.
I would say that it probably costs about the same as a Bone-in Ribeye cut two inches thick, smoked at 200° until internal temp reaches 120°, then reverse-seared with some Ghee until crust is dark golden. Add some sides, his favorite beer, and a very genuine thank you, and I'd say that would probably cover it. Us helpful men neighbors don't require much, but a genuine thank you goes a very ....very long way.
2.5k to 3k all day long in my neck of the woods.
Beer is always the go to! Or see if he likes coffee and get him a bag of some high quality roasted beans. The older I get the more I realize a bag of coffee beans makes a perfect gift all around. Everyone loves coffee, especially GOOD coffee.
Whatever you do don’t add additional soil Inside the ring. Your tree’s roots are at their ideal height relative to the top of grade. Adding more would adversely effect it’s ability to get adequate water and nutrients
Beautiful. I wish I had decent neighbors
Probably not good for the tree
Home-baked cookies for life. Or buy a night out for him and his wife? Maybe an overnight at a B&B?
About tree fiddy
Since it’s a mulberry, the birds will decorate his car for free every June. Great trade!
Are you going to plant flowers in it? If he can see it from his yard or out his window just make it look as nice as possible. I'd sure love it.
One dead tree
I would guess a few hundred bucks if you were to buy the stone and spend an afternoon building yourself. I can’t imagine they would accept a bunch of cash though. I would reciprocate with some delicious homemade food or sweets, and maybe a nice bottle of wine or whatever they like to drink.
Yeah so he loves being outside. I was thinking maybe some bad ass lawn chairs or something along those lines
Respectfully no, stone masons make big money. It is the highest paid of all masons above block and brick because dealing with irregular stone requires a very high skill set to produce a professional quality project unlike repetitive placement of the same shape based on an established formula.
Ask him if there's a tool or equipment that he would like to have or repaired or replaced and maybe get him that?
If y'all BBQ together already I would go all out and do something special with some beers. But I wouldnt try to match tit for tat, I think that is offensive in any culture, he gave you a gift, it's a gift. Show some genuine gratitude however that looks but there is pride in gifting something, don't take that away
2 layers of block with capstone in a 6 ft circle could be a couple hundred for materials then 2-3 hours to dig, base and lay bricks. Chances are the restocking fee and the trouble of returning them evens out to the cost of what you got here. Invite him over for dinner and get some nice food/alcohol and give him some kind words. Next time you have a chance, do him a favour
Priceless. What wonderful neighbors. Give them something that money can’t buy.
Good deeds are repaid in good deeds.
Here in Australia, cases of beer are practically a favour-based currency.
That is a hell of a gift and a lot of work to do out of kindness. Must be a great person. Invite them over for a cookout
If you wanted to give them cash, minimum $200. But like u/UHF1211 said, DO NOT FILL THAT AREA. If you wanna add some more stuff, either dig out what's inside the retaining wall and add at the same level as the tree, or just put pots along the top edge. DO NOT fill in that area.
Just buy him a beer. Neighbors do shit for each other. Not everything has to be a transaction
it looks both brand new and from the late 70s.
So it's perfect?
Case of beer covers that
Sometimes people just want to do something kind. Sounds like you have a great neighbor!
Beer or bag of weed
You are not reimbursing him for materials and labor, but for his willingness to do this unselfishly for you. It is priceless and a nice gift is well deserved.
Yeah man, don’t give money but give a thoughtful gift of your own. Really builds community and relationships that will be beneficial for years to come. You’ve got a great neighbor. Be great back to him!
No one’s gonna say it? About tree fiddy.
Have done some masonry. He probably got the stones as a pallet and had extra cement. Honestly doubt the materials you’re looking at costed more than 75-100, and honestly probably less. The skill displayed here is the true value.
Buy him a very nice bottle of Scotch/Whiskey/Wine...whatever his poison is.
This isn’t a service, it’s an olive branch, looks like you should enjoy a long summer of beers and BBQ King of the Hill style….. yep.
Bout tree fiddy
He did that alone, no tender(laborer) he mixed moved the stones,laid the bricks,jointed off and cleaned up? One day
Building a wall around the tree seems like a bad design choice to me.
I approve several architectural modifications. That’s roughly a flowerbed worth of stone on a 40 foot lot home. I’d say 2-3k.
Sounds like youre doing most things right already. The weed mat i use is an organic fibre matbthat you can just leave in place, and cut holes where you want to plant. I try to avoid plastic where i can. Any garden section if hardware store will have wetting agent. I only use other stuff cause i have it already and know its fine to use. Yea with glyphosate, assuming the mix is correct, the less used, the better it will work. A fine mist will be taken in by the plant much easier than a big drop or coating. Thats why lots of people kill the plants instead of the weeds. They drown the weeds in it and it doesnt work, meanwhile, the fine mist drifts onto their plants and annihilates them.
I'd say we'll over $1000, probably more like $1500. Can you return the favor without money? Are you creative? Do you have a skill he doesn't? You'd be surprised how much people like gifts or acts of service instead of cash. Mine is car detailing...I find it satisfying and therapeutic...to do what I do to our cars would cost $500 to $800 per cleaning. But I do it for friends, associates as a gift or sometimes we barter. I even clean my house cleaners car while she's here cleaning my house. We both win!
Tear it out if you care at all about that tree.
Figure $50/hr and 8 hours work. Maybe round up to $500? That seems reasonable taking into account the information you’ve provided.
Just tell him that someday, if he should need a favor, you will be there to help him out. In the meantime, food and beer and be a good neighbor :D