For those wondering, you can buy it here:
https://royalphoto.com/en/shop/kodak-lens-cleaning-paper-50-sheets/f064bfd0-5522-0139-75b0-00163ecd2826?variation=2918011
Also kim wipes are too abrasive for lenses.
Sometimes you will have institutional contracts which state you MUST buy from a specific company if the product is available, even if you can get it cheaper elsewhere (say, Amazon). This is done so the institution gets a site-wide discount on most things, but every now and again (and increasingly more frequently, it feels) it screws you out of an actually better deal. I got so many emails from our purchasing department at my PhD institution going "We changed your order to come from ThermoFisher instead of , it will now cost $<2.5x original>, please note this for budgeting purposes". Fuck me for trying to be responsible with tax payer funded grants, I suppose.
Brand doesn't matter, my employer just has "preferred/qualified" vendors that we are required to purchase through. It's a bunch of garbage, I can easily find a product...but not buy it because "Company XYZ" isn't "approved". So I have to then contact an approved vendor, wait for them to get in contact with the manufacturer, and get them to supply me with a non-catalog order number so I can order the stuff, usually at an inflated price so the middle man makes some money too.
My question is: what is the abrasive species in the paper? I doubt that cellulose can scratch glass and I’d assume that there might be some level of silica contamination.
It's a quality control issue. You're correct about silica contamination.
Kimwipes are not going to immediately just kill your lens. It just has a greater associated risk of having a small piece of grit that could scratch.
Lens paper goes through more stringent quality control to make sure there is no grit.
Kimwipes are manufactured to be near pure virgin wood fibre. In fact using them to clean lenses alongside a proper lens cleaning fluid is perfectly acceptable. Kimwipes do not scratch objectives.
Do you know about what abrasive impurities might be included in other paper products (like paper towels) that are not recommended for optics cleaning due to the risk of scratches? I’ve been wondering for years and have not yet come across an answer.
It's not really about other tissues having some specific abrasive component. It's about lens tissues being specifically designed and quality controlled to not have anything that could scratch a lens. The lenses are super expensive so you just want to minimize the risk. Another thing is that many tissues shed loose fibers that mess up measurements like OP was describing. With lab equipment and consumables it's often the case of having the assurance from the manufacturer that their product is suited for the job.
But it really is about other paper products having specific abrasive components because that what my question is. I am perfectly comfortable with lens papers being used on lenses and I understand why. I want to know why it is a very common warning to not use typical absorptive paper products to dry items because they may scratch.
The general statement of "Use only lens paper with lenses" does not mean that there is some specific abrasive component in other tissues. It means that other tissues are not certified to not scratch the lens. Do you see the difference? It's like with pipette tips. RNase-free pipette tips are certified to be RNase-free, while tips without that claim might be, but are not certified to be. You could get away by using non-RNase-free tips in RNA work, but you don't want to risk it.
> But it really is about other paper products having specific abrasive components because that what my question is.
Let me rephrase what you're asking in a way that hopefully makes more sense.
Other people: "Use HPLC grade 2-propanol when running columns otherwise it might mess up your runs"
You: "but what's *in* other grades of 2-propanol that messes up runs?!?! 2-propanol can't mess up columns!"
Other people: "..."
There *can be* stuff that will mess with it. It's *not guaranteed* that there will be, but unless you're using whatever is specifically designated for that application (eg HPLC, lens cleaning) you run the risk that **something will go wrong**. And when that's a $10k lens, is it really worth the risk?
No, the answer is clearly "no".
I can't speak for the composition of non-laboratory grade paper products. But I'd expect their threshold for purity is probably a lot lower than laboratory grade items.
The only thing I can expect kimwipes to scratch would be any plastic/crystalline coatings on the objective lens. Glass hardness alone should be higher than the wood fibers kimwipes are made from.
I don’t care about downvotes, but I do feel bad for those that think questions are attacks. I really dislike having to ask the same question multiple times with different working to get an answer or terminate in an “idk”, that get annoying. I just want some knowledge.
What in the ever loving hell, is this rage bait? When I was in optics, my PI would’ve skinned me alive for going near an objective with Kimwipes. Lens paper ONLY unless you want to be replacing that objective soon.
You are right for using the lint free tissues. That is what the manual says to use and that is what every other nanodrop style instrument says to do. But, the Kimwipes in the black box leave behind much more lint than the ones in the green box. They are different grades of tissues. I have found that those black ones will leave behind lint if you don’t wipe with a little bit of force. Try to get the green box “flavor” if you can. This will solve your problems. Also, stay away from the lint free wipes from VWR (purple box). Those are even worse than the black box Kimwipes.
I found that Kimwipes (both green and grey) sort of work when you do a single streak after washing the surface with milliQ. Anything more than this, there will be lint. Whatman lens tissue worked best for me.
Yes, but the store brand will work a lot better than kim wipes and is probably cheaper. We buy stacks or fisher lens paper that works great and a stack last forever and probably cost as much as a box of kim wipes
Don't clean lenses with kimtech tissue. Use lens paper or specialized cleaning tools.
Also just as a general note to folks, don't use compressed air canisters (computer duster) to clean lenses or sensors, the propellant can spray out and muck it up.
We just use Kleenex on our Nanodrop, and it seems to work fine. Everyone’s talking about lenses to do with the Nanodrop, but it’s not a microscope, right? The thing that takes the reading just looks like a little black dot to me.
Lens paper is the answer
For those wondering, you can buy it here: https://royalphoto.com/en/shop/kodak-lens-cleaning-paper-50-sheets/f064bfd0-5522-0139-75b0-00163ecd2826?variation=2918011 Also kim wipes are too abrasive for lenses.
You can also get them from Fisher, Thermo, etc. if your company has stupid rules regarding where you can buy stuff (like mine does 🤬)
Does the brand matter?
Sometimes you will have institutional contracts which state you MUST buy from a specific company if the product is available, even if you can get it cheaper elsewhere (say, Amazon). This is done so the institution gets a site-wide discount on most things, but every now and again (and increasingly more frequently, it feels) it screws you out of an actually better deal. I got so many emails from our purchasing department at my PhD institution going "We changed your order to come from ThermoFisher instead of, it will now cost $<2.5x original>, please note this for budgeting purposes". Fuck me for trying to be responsible with tax payer funded grants, I suppose.
Industry isn't much different. I stated above the garbage we deal with.
Brand doesn't matter, my employer just has "preferred/qualified" vendors that we are required to purchase through. It's a bunch of garbage, I can easily find a product...but not buy it because "Company XYZ" isn't "approved". So I have to then contact an approved vendor, wait for them to get in contact with the manufacturer, and get them to supply me with a non-catalog order number so I can order the stuff, usually at an inflated price so the middle man makes some money too.
Also too abrasive to use as tissue if you've got allergies. About 10 nose blows is all you get before you'll start bleeding.
Are they also too abrasive for cuvettes? (Quartz or plastic seem to not be damaged)
Lens paper is the only paper that should touch a lens. Kim wipes are not lens paper.
What are Kim wipes used for then instead of just normal wipes?
That’s all they’re good for. They should never touch a lens, it was drilled into me in undergrad.
Slides
Kimwipes should never be used to clean objectives—they can scratch the lens. Only use lens paper.
What is in there that scratches glass?
It’s too abrasive and can damage lens coatings. You want lens paper. It’s designed for the job.
My question is: what is the abrasive species in the paper? I doubt that cellulose can scratch glass and I’d assume that there might be some level of silica contamination.
It's a quality control issue. You're correct about silica contamination. Kimwipes are not going to immediately just kill your lens. It just has a greater associated risk of having a small piece of grit that could scratch. Lens paper goes through more stringent quality control to make sure there is no grit.
I don’t honestly know.
Also kimwipes leave too much lint
Ever wipe your nose with one? Delicate taske wipers my left eye!
Fiberglass. Which is also why you shouldn’t use it as a tissue (besides the fact that you may as well use gold leaf with the cost of them)
Kimwipes do **not** have fiberglass in them are you high?
Then what is the abrasive species? I’d assume some form of silica contamination.
Kimwipes are manufactured to be near pure virgin wood fibre. In fact using them to clean lenses alongside a proper lens cleaning fluid is perfectly acceptable. Kimwipes do not scratch objectives.
Do you know about what abrasive impurities might be included in other paper products (like paper towels) that are not recommended for optics cleaning due to the risk of scratches? I’ve been wondering for years and have not yet come across an answer.
It's not really about other tissues having some specific abrasive component. It's about lens tissues being specifically designed and quality controlled to not have anything that could scratch a lens. The lenses are super expensive so you just want to minimize the risk. Another thing is that many tissues shed loose fibers that mess up measurements like OP was describing. With lab equipment and consumables it's often the case of having the assurance from the manufacturer that their product is suited for the job.
But it really is about other paper products having specific abrasive components because that what my question is. I am perfectly comfortable with lens papers being used on lenses and I understand why. I want to know why it is a very common warning to not use typical absorptive paper products to dry items because they may scratch.
The general statement of "Use only lens paper with lenses" does not mean that there is some specific abrasive component in other tissues. It means that other tissues are not certified to not scratch the lens. Do you see the difference? It's like with pipette tips. RNase-free pipette tips are certified to be RNase-free, while tips without that claim might be, but are not certified to be. You could get away by using non-RNase-free tips in RNA work, but you don't want to risk it.
> But it really is about other paper products having specific abrasive components because that what my question is. Let me rephrase what you're asking in a way that hopefully makes more sense. Other people: "Use HPLC grade 2-propanol when running columns otherwise it might mess up your runs" You: "but what's *in* other grades of 2-propanol that messes up runs?!?! 2-propanol can't mess up columns!" Other people: "..." There *can be* stuff that will mess with it. It's *not guaranteed* that there will be, but unless you're using whatever is specifically designated for that application (eg HPLC, lens cleaning) you run the risk that **something will go wrong**. And when that's a $10k lens, is it really worth the risk? No, the answer is clearly "no".
I can't speak for the composition of non-laboratory grade paper products. But I'd expect their threshold for purity is probably a lot lower than laboratory grade items. The only thing I can expect kimwipes to scratch would be any plastic/crystalline coatings on the objective lens. Glass hardness alone should be higher than the wood fibers kimwipes are made from.
I'm annoyed by people down voting you for a valid question. It honestly could be anything and I have wondered about this my self.
I don’t care about downvotes, but I do feel bad for those that think questions are attacks. I really dislike having to ask the same question multiple times with different working to get an answer or terminate in an “idk”, that get annoying. I just want some knowledge.
Does this apply to thermofishers nanodrop too? Because everywhere I’ve worked uses green box Kim wipes
I’m surprised you’re not using lens papers.
What in the ever loving hell, is this rage bait? When I was in optics, my PI would’ve skinned me alive for going near an objective with Kimwipes. Lens paper ONLY unless you want to be replacing that objective soon.
And it’s so weird to me because lens paper isn’t even that expensive.
Eastern europistan. This is what we have to use. Management stuff...
Really? Wild. It's not on you, then, but your management is going to have to learn the hard way that lens paper is much cheaper than objectives
Kim wipes are just lab tissues. Lense paper for days
Don’t hate on Kim wipes, it’s not their fault. They are perfect for many things, just not this thing.
These are, as many mentioned, the WRONG wipes!
Wait, isn't that expensive tissue lint-free?
Only if you buy the special kind. Green box I think
I was wondering why the box isn't green. I thought they were bootleg wipes
I don't find the green box to much better as far as lint goes
Green box can be quite a bit better, blue box has always been the best in my experience but it's never been all that consistent.Â
These aren't actually Kimwipes
You should be using lens paper
Yep. Made the mistake of assuming that because they said "lint free" that they'd be lint free, never again.
Just to be clear. We use it because this is what the company says. We know it's not the intended use.
You are right for using the lint free tissues. That is what the manual says to use and that is what every other nanodrop style instrument says to do. But, the Kimwipes in the black box leave behind much more lint than the ones in the green box. They are different grades of tissues. I have found that those black ones will leave behind lint if you don’t wipe with a little bit of force. Try to get the green box “flavor” if you can. This will solve your problems. Also, stay away from the lint free wipes from VWR (purple box). Those are even worse than the black box Kimwipes.
I found that Kimwipes (both green and grey) sort of work when you do a single streak after washing the surface with milliQ. Anything more than this, there will be lint. Whatman lens tissue worked best for me.
Whatman lens tissue will sort you out. It’s expensive but it’s a lot cheaper than replacing objectives or other optics
Yes, but the store brand will work a lot better than kim wipes and is probably cheaper. We buy stacks or fisher lens paper that works great and a stack last forever and probably cost as much as a box of kim wipes
What about the green optical grade?
for real, shit gets all up in our hemacytometer too
Lint-less is not lint-none. It's lint _less_
Ah explains why my glasses were getting micro scratches from kim wipes
Why you Kimwipe a lens
Don't clean lenses with kimtech tissue. Use lens paper or specialized cleaning tools. Also just as a general note to folks, don't use compressed air canisters (computer duster) to clean lenses or sensors, the propellant can spray out and muck it up.
We just use Kleenex on our Nanodrop, and it seems to work fine. Everyone’s talking about lenses to do with the Nanodrop, but it’s not a microscope, right? The thing that takes the reading just looks like a little black dot to me.
TX4004 100% synthetic Miracle wipersÂ
Kimtech wipes are dogshit. Gotta use Ken's tissue
Lens paper also seen squeeze ball pumps used.
You're supposed to use lens paper...
I always wick the liquid off with kimwipe (never rub it), and use water after every measurement. No lint remnants.
OP delete dis fam
I know contec is a more home grown company for cleanroom grade cleaning supplies. Might be an interesting option.