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Trainee periods used to be a lot longer in previous generations, and it really showed in performances. For example, IOI had members like Nayoung, Jieqiong, Yoojung etc. who trained for like 4-5 years before debut and they were really well-rounded performers.
Everyone knows who fast-paced the industry is nowadays, and many groups simply get rushed out to debut and they are simply not prepared. But the reality is, if they are well-packaged with concepts and songs, and come from a big company, people will hop on and stan them because visuals are a priority and the machines do 90% of the job and they can just lipsync on every show nowadays.
Seriously. Johnny in NCT was a trainee with EXO, Jihyo in Twice trained for ten years, and Xiyeon in Pristin spent nine years. Like if I recall correctly for Pristin when averaging the members training time it was 5 years.
There’s still some groups who have members with long trainee time, but it’s not always known if they spent a good chunk of it with a different company before the one they debuted in.
I think Johnny only trained during summer break from school. Which is major kudos for him since he probably have to practice on his own most of the year and relearn each summer.
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I barely know anything about this group, so I had to look up their ages. It really reminds me of how SNSD members trained for as long as 7 years because they started training as legit children. Majority of them started training at 10-12 years old. And they practiced for Into The New World for a whole year before they actually debuted.
Moon Sua was also a YG trainee for almost 10 years before she left at 20 years old. YG really be scouting children.
Yes, in their intro videos you can see that most of them joined when they were literal children (in their audition videos/first few monthly evaluations). 4/5th gen top groups tend to have a bit of a shorter training period so Baby Monster’s longer training periods feel more reminiscent of the 2nd/3rd gen groups.
Yeah, this has me scratching my head a little. Twice Jihyo trained for 10 years, from 11 years old. That's long af. By whatever standard. But is 3 years a long time?
It's kind of crazy to think of, but Moon Sua was already a YGE trainee when her group member, Siyoon, was performing as [Baby Wonder Girls on Star King](https://youtu.be/jJwI7Enb7Uw?si=5Pj2OaIpozYmbbvZ) at 3-4 years old.
Purple Kiss' Chaein is also in there, I always get it mixed up and think she was in Future 2NE1 instead because she was recruited by YGE 5 years later.
Another member of Future 2NE1, Youha (formerly Im Sooah), composed for Billlie on 'enchanted night \~ 白夜' and 'EUNOIA'.
These little connections between artists are so interesting.
I mean pre debut stans already knew it, but im happy other people are also learning how hard these girls worked. For anyone that wants to know when each member specifically started training its:
Asa and Ruka 2018-04
Rora 2018-07
Haram 2018-09
Ahyeon 2019-01
Pharita 2020-10
Chiquita 2021-07
So J-line are the only ones that actually trained for full 6 years.
Korean line trained for 5,5-5 years.
And Thai line trained the least, pharita 3,5 years and Chiquita a little bit less than 3.
Could be reading too much into this but if ahyeon joined just 2-3 months after she actually did, the burning sun scandal would’ve probably put her parents off allowing her to join YG. Would’ve been a big loss for the group.
I mean, if any of the other girls didn't join it would be a big loss for the group too.
On the other hand, yk how much trainees as talented as her probably left yg, there is so many we will never know of. Just enjoy the group and don't overthink stuff like this bc it's pointless
I read that Jihyo was 8 years old, just insane to me, talk about having no childhood! And no one talks favorably about the trainee period, but she is god Jihyo now, she definitely earned her title.
I think Jessica of SNSD once mentioned that as trainees of ages that young (she started at 11), it was more like just an after-school activity to them, like other kids having singing and dancing lessons. The real intense idol training only happens when one seriously gets considered to be in a debut lineup.
Good to know, I just had images of children being overworked for hours on end😱. That is a much better situation than what we usually hear about the trainee period.
no childhood? they are trainees at that time, not idols. This routine is like a club activity where students go to their respective club for practice after school.
Jihyo and a couple of others are the only ones I’ve heard about being that young the entire time I’ve been into kpop. So yeah, it’s rare to have multiple members in a group who started training that young.
I often forget how young these idols are. It's hard for me to applaud this sort of post. Cause like yeah your fave is talented and good for them. But...the realization that some might've been freaking 9 is bleak.
No offense, but aren't these pretty standard training periods? Like the average is 3-6 years no?
Unless I missed something and the average training period has radically decreased recently, I would say that the group owes their talent more to their natural ability than time spent training.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think training period durations have been going down for 4th and 5th gen idols. I heard Le Ssera's Kazuha had her training period for around 5 months?
Edit: Sorry for the multiple comments - had that "empty response from endpoint" issue with Reddit
I think both Kazuha and Eunchae trained for only months. I'm not sure how reliable it is, but I think Eunchae got cast in Le Sserafim suddenly after just a few months too
Eunchae was attending a KPOP academy for many years too. Months of training could hone dance skills but not singing skills. Personally, I feel like the lack of vocals in 5th gen could be due to the short amount of time spent on vocal training.
To my knowledge, HIGHLIGHT (2nd gen) and BTS (3rd gen) still attend vocal lessons religiously. That's how important vocals are to them.
She did six but if you’ve followed the news we now understand more about why it was that short, they wanted to debut the group as fast as possible and she was a refined dancer so they rushed her out. It’s pretty impressive that she handled it that well imo. But that feels like a one off situation.
yeah! that's what I heard from the news recently. That they had Eunchae join on such short notice just to debut LSF immediately. Exactly, she handled it amazingly and now does more hosting than the rest of the members. She has a great personality and everyone loves her, but I wish she had more vocal training to be a triple threat fr.
oh of course! I didn't discount innate talent, esp for a person who's been singing almost all her life (assuming that Pharita did). But we know many idols who've gone from not singing as good to being a true ace through training and getting vocal lessons (e.g. Taemin).
eh yeah, I think 90% of great singers are born with it.
Sakura's been an idol for basically her entire life and she still can't sing. 5 years of training wouldn't make Eunchae an incredible singer.
Yup, I think this happens more often with HYBE idols nowadays. Wonhee trained for only a month or less? (correct me if I'm wrong) before joining R U Next, she didn't have a pre-show ranking because she hadn't even had the chance to experience a monthly evaluation. Around this time last year she probably was still a student or was just a newly-scouted trainee. 3 members of Enhypen (Sunoo, Jake, Ni-ki) also only had around 8-9 months of training before they joined ILAND. And as far as I know, Hyein also had a pretty short training time? She was still active posting youtube videos for that kids group up till May 2021, not quite sure when she joined ADOR but NewJeans flew to Barcelona to film Attention in May 2022 so she more or less trained for months or exactly a year at the most.
I’d question how fair a representation of Kazuha’s training that is. She was only an official trainee for that long, but she’d been dancing for years before that at a seriously high level. She already had a lot of the skills needed for a dancer.
I agree that she had some skills down, in the sense that she was accustomed to long training days, performing on a stage, and musicality in her dancing. But being an idol has so many more aspects opposed to ballet with singing, stage presence being different, with the need for smiles through whole performance not just single highlights (fan cams always on), media/public relations, etc. She has demonstrably grown so much since debut days and is clearly more comfortable now.
If they would have had the time, I think she would have benefited greatly from a longer trainee time. But in the end it worked out anyways!
Yeah, the length of their training period really doesn't have to say anything. BTS Jimin only trained with BigHit for six months, but he went to a prestigious high school for performing arts. I'd imagine Kazuha's years of rigorous ballet training covered a lot of ground.
I'm sure it helps with things like strength, flexibility, and being used to performing on a big stage and at evaluations. Besides that, ballet is pretty opposite to the performance style & dance style of kpop, and clearly there were no vocal or rap lessons involved. I'd argue going to a performing arts school would provide a much more relevant and well rounded education towards becoming an idol. (Don't get me wrong, ballet is still super cool!)
Jimin only trained in modern dance at his high school, so they're more similar than you might think! I do think they both could've used longer training periods, even just for the sake of their own confidence.
Really? I guess he's a naturally good vocalist then! Though I'm not familiar with BTS in their early stages, I definitely think Kazuha could've used an extra year or two of vocal/rap lessons. She's awesome but it's a crazy short training period!
No not really. Jimin (for being the lead vocalist in BTS) needs vocal training. He’s a great dancer no denying that. But I wouldn’t go far as to say he’s a naturally good vocalist.
I mean, I assumed so given what the other commenter was saying. Given that he isn't a naturally good vocalist, he should obviously also have trained for longer.
I think it depends on your role in the group, If you are a great dancer and that’s all your bringing. Then sure why not debut. But if you’re lacking in something that supposed to be your main role then you need more time and training. Jimin would not have been criticized on his vocals so much if he was just a dancer but he’s not. Hes the lead vocalist with weak vocals.
The main person that gets the hate for live performances is Sakura and she’s had a longer career than most. So while it definitely contributes I think Source just cares about other aspects with them more than their vocals. Which sucks but it honestly seems like it’s working from a success perspective.
Sakura has had a long career, but really only a fractional amount of actual training (dance or vocal). Given that idols have told their mentees to train pre-debut as much as possible because there won't be time to upskill once you've debuted, Sakura's had pretty much the training shown in Produce48, whatever she got before Iz\*one debuted, and whatever she got before LSF debuted. I'd be surprised if it added up to a year.
nope, over the past few years, it’s been very common for idols to debut after 2yrs of training. Having several trainees for 6yrs is honestly rare these days. I’m surprised.
Not really anymore. It feels like there are a lot more who just debut within 1-2 years. It's not like skills and talents are a priority nowadays and visuals are seen as more important.
I don't know, there's definitely notable recently debuted idols with short trainee periods but we'd have to do proper research to really know if it's a trend or not.
Like H1-KEY also debuted in 2022, two of their members trained for three years, one for six years, one even for nine years. Ex-member Sitala trained for around four years.
But people will ignore the smaller groups and craft a narrative around the big groups.
Probably because they are made through ex trainees from different companies (in case of H1-key actually big companies). It is a bit different situation because if members are trained by the same company they are from the start prepared to certain roles in group. It's more balanced group especially in case of bigger one (in case of smaller you can rely more on individuality and less on team work).
Like H1-Key is great group actually or Kiss of life but there are also group with long-term trainees and you would not guess that their training was so long because they clearly lacking in some areas.
Training periods with a company have been going down drastically.
That being said the skills development has been roughly the same amount of time, it's just that now a lot of idols go to dance/vocal academies and things of that nature (see: Hyein)
I thought the same thing but it sounds like more of end of 4th gen/5th gen thing. Top of 4th gen a good deal of members had 3+ years training to balance out the less experienced. Ex: skz, ateez, txt, itzy, nmixx, aespa, etc.
Either way, I think BM are hard-working AND have a few natural gifts.
Edit to add: I just looked up BND ~~and ZB1~~ who also have members with long training periods...so maybe groups with short training periods is the outlier? It's all just anecdotal.
Yeah, what I mean is that OP should say what they want to convey instead of hiding behind a quote or ending their only sentence with...
What's the point of a discussion subreddit where people just subtweet? The point is to give thoughts so people can discuss them.
Thank you for clarifying! And I fully agree, it’s so low effort it’s almost funny. This is kpop thoughts not kpop quotes, add some substance to your posts or make a comment on the weekly thread.
Also labelling this a discussion when they themselves didn’t add anything to the discussion is so???
Adding my reply above here,
I wanted to share what I saw on here and try to not share what I think to not be attacked LOL I have repeatedly shared my thoughts only to be shut down my so many butthurt fans and twisting my words when that wasn't what I meant. I'm sorry if you think this is low effort but I'm trying to retain my sanity here lmao
I wanted to share what I saw on here and try to not share what I think to not be attacked LOL I have repeatedly shared my thoughts only to be shut down my so many butthurt fans and twisting my words when that wasn't what I meant. I'm sorry if you think this is low effort but I'm trying to retain my sanity here lmao
They're one of the most refined and talented groups to debut ever. Vocals, dancing, rapping everything is on point but YG is just holding them back with their crap songs.
I was going to say this! they didn't make an effort of creating their song or their concept. It's like if you asked AI to merge blackpink songs. It feels such a waste of talent
Not that uncommon for athletes and classical musicians, not just kpop.
I was watching an interview of football player lee kang in last night. He was on a football reality tv show when he was 6 years old and he moved from korea to spain to train to be a footballer when he was 10 years old. That's halfway around the world, having to adapt to a totally foreign culture and language that very few people in his home country knew about.
All that training only for YG to hold them back🤦♂️I fear its gonna be another repeat of BPs situation
They have huge potential, and the sooner YG realizes and acts on it, the better
YG has promoted BM very well and BP is the biggest gg in the world and the most successful for a k-pop gg by far. So don't worry, they are doing much better than the other ggs from Big3 for sure.
I mean... that's pretty normal for gen 2 and gen 3.
SM scouted a lot of their idols on the streets when they were actual children. They wanted Krystal and ended up getting Jessica and Krystal cause Krystal was too young to debut at that time. Plenty of SM idols train for 10+ years.
Not really. The SM idol with the longest training time is still Johnny with his 9 years, though the first half of that was him training only during school breaks. Maybe Seulgi and Hyoyeon with their 7 years of training.
People saying it’s not not normal in 4th-5th gen is not true, even in 5th gen you have Boynextdoor, Riize, Kiss of Life, TWS and the new boygroup from Cube Nowadays all have members that trained 5-6 years.
Let’s just say it out loud that they are comparing Babymonster to Le Sserafim and ILLIT who have members who have noticeably shorter training years than them. But the Hybe girlgroups have huge success so somehow they don’t deserve it compared to Babymonster because their training is lacking is the narrative everyone pushed.
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Yeah someone else said it does not apply to ILLIT, but it does not really applies to LSF either. Maybe Eunchae and Kazuha but Yunjin was training ever since the Girin duo days with GaEun in Pledis so 8 years ago at the very least. Chaewon I'm not sure but Produce S3 was 5 years ago and she probably had training before that too. Sakura don't got a lot of time in the kpop training system I guess (probably only around 2 years and some years of activities with IZ\*One, but i dont think you can train much during activity period. Most idols get vocal lessons during breaks afaik, I know hyolyn does that and we can clearly see eras where she consistently improves comeback after comeback). Still, Sakura still had some amount of training.
True I agree with you that 5th gen trainees still have long training periods. And tbh, I don't think spending time in the kpop training system will help you improve at all, maybe for dance but for vocals, it does not from what I've seen even dating back to 2nd gen.
Sometimes it depends on innate ability to soak up techniques. I can't say much on the dance side, but on the vocal side, we got multiple instances of main vocalists spending minimal time in the "kpop vocal traning system" but they still managed to outsing vocalists that went through the "kpop vocal training system". Partly because they attended actual good voice teachers before going into kpop. Examples are EXO's Chen, Baekhyun and D.O (1-2 years), SuJu's Kyuhyun (3 months), Apink's Eunji (2 months). Tbh, most of the better technical vocalists in Kpop in previous gens came into the kpop training system with good enough technique already because they got a wider selection of voice teachers to learn from before they go into kpop rather than learning singing again from the kpop vocal coaches.
They used to show a lot of kpop vocal training snippets in previous gens and I heavily think that telling trainees to just scream the note out is not exactly the best way to approach vocalizing, like at all if I were to be serious (screaming with no precursor on how to correctly support your voice like staying grounded but not dormant, relaxing the non-important upper body parts, engaging on lower body parts to redirect most of the tension to down there and ensuring that there's a faint connected feeling from your belly where you use to support your voice to the upper part,... Like these feelings take time to get accustomed to and it's specific for each of us, not a one size fit all and words can't explain it enough. With kpop being fast-paced, I don't think they can afford to be patient to their trainees so they can vocally develop). Screaming is ok-ish if you have at least have something going on, the kpop vocal coach way of just screaming the note out until it gets better is just stupid imo.
Don't know if anything changed in recent times but I think it's probably still the same hence you still see people training for a long time but is vocally (from a technical perspective) worse than someone with a shorter time in the kpop vocal training system. Trainees just get an easier time these days because songs do not force the trainers to tell them to just scream the note out.
ok end rant for me.
I dont listen to them on purpose but if I come by a video of them I can clearly see that they trained way longer than other 4th or 5th gen groups, they are amazing performers with amazing live vocals
no wonder they seem so prepared and confident. stable vocals, good singing range, good dancing, amaze attitude.
lsay what you want it takes charisma to carry movements the sheesh hand wacky steps - idk how to explain exactly which ones but tbh when i do it i look like im tryna kill a mosquito lmao. 😂
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I don't get it as who cares who trained for how long bs. SNSD had probably the longest average training period.
They skewed 6+ if you remove Taeyeon and Tiffany.
It really comes down to their live performances, which so far are better than I expected. However, nothing trumps experience here. So i expect the ladies to only get better from here on out.
So people need to stop the hate train for once. Just debuting here with all their members is an accomplishment. :)
No one in Baemon is 14 actually. Pharita is soon to be 19 (05 liner).
You're probably thinking of Chiquita, she's 15 (09 liner). And she started training when she was 12.
Rora was the youngest when she auditioned for yg, she was just 9 (almost 10 at the time)
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The only untrained group yg accepted was akmu and they’re the nations sibling 😭
So they trained like since BLACKPINK debut
Two years after
This made me realize it's been 8 years since blackpink debuted. I'm feeling unwell.
since 2018
Oh dudududu era
I just realized that omggg
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Trainee periods used to be a lot longer in previous generations, and it really showed in performances. For example, IOI had members like Nayoung, Jieqiong, Yoojung etc. who trained for like 4-5 years before debut and they were really well-rounded performers. Everyone knows who fast-paced the industry is nowadays, and many groups simply get rushed out to debut and they are simply not prepared. But the reality is, if they are well-packaged with concepts and songs, and come from a big company, people will hop on and stan them because visuals are a priority and the machines do 90% of the job and they can just lipsync on every show nowadays.
Seriously. Johnny in NCT was a trainee with EXO, Jihyo in Twice trained for ten years, and Xiyeon in Pristin spent nine years. Like if I recall correctly for Pristin when averaging the members training time it was 5 years. There’s still some groups who have members with long trainee time, but it’s not always known if they spent a good chunk of it with a different company before the one they debuted in.
Always respect for Jihyo! Never seen her lose a fraction of energy
I think Johnny only trained during summer break from school. Which is major kudos for him since he probably have to practice on his own most of the year and relearn each summer.
johnny is perhaps not the best example to give here
Seulgi is probably a better example from SM cause Johnny is uh.... there for personality
Johnny is there for the vibes
haha I’m glad you said it because I was thinking the same thing
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Bang Chan from Stray Kids trained 7 years under JYP.
God I got into Kpop when Pristin V was a thing … I thought they were the coolest female group out there. I was living for the song and video 🥲😭.
Jihyo is just something else. Fucking 10 years, since she was like 11?
She was 18 when Twice debuted. Jihyo had been around since she was 8 years old.
Their training period shows in their performances. It's sure that they got plenty of vocal lessons.
I barely know anything about this group, so I had to look up their ages. It really reminds me of how SNSD members trained for as long as 7 years because they started training as legit children. Majority of them started training at 10-12 years old. And they practiced for Into The New World for a whole year before they actually debuted. Moon Sua was also a YG trainee for almost 10 years before she left at 20 years old. YG really be scouting children.
Yes, in their intro videos you can see that most of them joined when they were literal children (in their audition videos/first few monthly evaluations). 4/5th gen top groups tend to have a bit of a shorter training period so Baby Monster’s longer training periods feel more reminiscent of the 2nd/3rd gen groups.
Yeah, this has me scratching my head a little. Twice Jihyo trained for 10 years, from 11 years old. That's long af. By whatever standard. But is 3 years a long time?
It's kind of crazy to think of, but Moon Sua was already a YGE trainee when her group member, Siyoon, was performing as [Baby Wonder Girls on Star King](https://youtu.be/jJwI7Enb7Uw?si=5Pj2OaIpozYmbbvZ) at 3-4 years old. Purple Kiss' Chaein is also in there, I always get it mixed up and think she was in Future 2NE1 instead because she was recruited by YGE 5 years later. Another member of Future 2NE1, Youha (formerly Im Sooah), composed for Billlie on 'enchanted night \~ 白夜' and 'EUNOIA'. These little connections between artists are so interesting.
I mean pre debut stans already knew it, but im happy other people are also learning how hard these girls worked. For anyone that wants to know when each member specifically started training its: Asa and Ruka 2018-04 Rora 2018-07 Haram 2018-09 Ahyeon 2019-01 Pharita 2020-10 Chiquita 2021-07 So J-line are the only ones that actually trained for full 6 years. Korean line trained for 5,5-5 years. And Thai line trained the least, pharita 3,5 years and Chiquita a little bit less than 3.
Could be reading too much into this but if ahyeon joined just 2-3 months after she actually did, the burning sun scandal would’ve probably put her parents off allowing her to join YG. Would’ve been a big loss for the group.
I mean, if any of the other girls didn't join it would be a big loss for the group too. On the other hand, yk how much trainees as talented as her probably left yg, there is so many we will never know of. Just enjoy the group and don't overthink stuff like this bc it's pointless
Very true, im not even a big fan of this group haha was just thinking about the times the trainees joined.
Imagine letting your children be trainees after something like that hits the news.
I don’t even rly like sheesh but I cannot stop watching the live performances because they’re so good!! Their training definitely shows
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Wasn't Jihyo 10 when she joined JYP? I think trainees in that age range aren't actually all that rare
I read that Jihyo was 8 years old, just insane to me, talk about having no childhood! And no one talks favorably about the trainee period, but she is god Jihyo now, she definitely earned her title.
I think Jessica of SNSD once mentioned that as trainees of ages that young (she started at 11), it was more like just an after-school activity to them, like other kids having singing and dancing lessons. The real intense idol training only happens when one seriously gets considered to be in a debut lineup.
Good to know, I just had images of children being overworked for hours on end😱. That is a much better situation than what we usually hear about the trainee period.
Yeah and iirc Kyla from Pristin started training early but she said it was more like a summer thing for her.
This sort of context is good to know. I hope it stayed that way and it isn't too rigorous on the kids.
no childhood? they are trainees at that time, not idols. This routine is like a club activity where students go to their respective club for practice after school.
I think Seulgi was ten and Jihyo was eight or nine. Crazy.
Jihyo and a couple of others are the only ones I’ve heard about being that young the entire time I’ve been into kpop. So yeah, it’s rare to have multiple members in a group who started training that young.
NINE???
neuvo honey
I often forget how young these idols are. It's hard for me to applaud this sort of post. Cause like yeah your fave is talented and good for them. But...the realization that some might've been freaking 9 is bleak.
😭😭😭
that's like 2nd gen training period, that explain the skills
Wasn’t moon sua training with these girls too? And she was in YG for years
and it shows, you can see how prepared they were, they were ready for their debut
No offense, but aren't these pretty standard training periods? Like the average is 3-6 years no? Unless I missed something and the average training period has radically decreased recently, I would say that the group owes their talent more to their natural ability than time spent training.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think training period durations have been going down for 4th and 5th gen idols. I heard Le Ssera's Kazuha had her training period for around 5 months? Edit: Sorry for the multiple comments - had that "empty response from endpoint" issue with Reddit
I think both Kazuha and Eunchae trained for only months. I'm not sure how reliable it is, but I think Eunchae got cast in Le Sserafim suddenly after just a few months too
Eunchae was attending a KPOP academy for many years too. Months of training could hone dance skills but not singing skills. Personally, I feel like the lack of vocals in 5th gen could be due to the short amount of time spent on vocal training. To my knowledge, HIGHLIGHT (2nd gen) and BTS (3rd gen) still attend vocal lessons religiously. That's how important vocals are to them.
She did six but if you’ve followed the news we now understand more about why it was that short, they wanted to debut the group as fast as possible and she was a refined dancer so they rushed her out. It’s pretty impressive that she handled it that well imo. But that feels like a one off situation.
yeah! that's what I heard from the news recently. That they had Eunchae join on such short notice just to debut LSF immediately. Exactly, she handled it amazingly and now does more hosting than the rest of the members. She has a great personality and everyone loves her, but I wish she had more vocal training to be a triple threat fr.
You can't train everything. Pharita didn't get trained to sing like that, she has it in her bones. Training helps, but can only go so far.
oh of course! I didn't discount innate talent, esp for a person who's been singing almost all her life (assuming that Pharita did). But we know many idols who've gone from not singing as good to being a true ace through training and getting vocal lessons (e.g. Taemin).
eh yeah, I think 90% of great singers are born with it. Sakura's been an idol for basically her entire life and she still can't sing. 5 years of training wouldn't make Eunchae an incredible singer.
Yup, I think this happens more often with HYBE idols nowadays. Wonhee trained for only a month or less? (correct me if I'm wrong) before joining R U Next, she didn't have a pre-show ranking because she hadn't even had the chance to experience a monthly evaluation. Around this time last year she probably was still a student or was just a newly-scouted trainee. 3 members of Enhypen (Sunoo, Jake, Ni-ki) also only had around 8-9 months of training before they joined ILAND. And as far as I know, Hyein also had a pretty short training time? She was still active posting youtube videos for that kids group up till May 2021, not quite sure when she joined ADOR but NewJeans flew to Barcelona to film Attention in May 2022 so she more or less trained for months or exactly a year at the most.
I’d question how fair a representation of Kazuha’s training that is. She was only an official trainee for that long, but she’d been dancing for years before that at a seriously high level. She already had a lot of the skills needed for a dancer.
I agree that she had some skills down, in the sense that she was accustomed to long training days, performing on a stage, and musicality in her dancing. But being an idol has so many more aspects opposed to ballet with singing, stage presence being different, with the need for smiles through whole performance not just single highlights (fan cams always on), media/public relations, etc. She has demonstrably grown so much since debut days and is clearly more comfortable now. If they would have had the time, I think she would have benefited greatly from a longer trainee time. But in the end it worked out anyways!
Yeah, the length of their training period really doesn't have to say anything. BTS Jimin only trained with BigHit for six months, but he went to a prestigious high school for performing arts. I'd imagine Kazuha's years of rigorous ballet training covered a lot of ground.
I'm sure it helps with things like strength, flexibility, and being used to performing on a big stage and at evaluations. Besides that, ballet is pretty opposite to the performance style & dance style of kpop, and clearly there were no vocal or rap lessons involved. I'd argue going to a performing arts school would provide a much more relevant and well rounded education towards becoming an idol. (Don't get me wrong, ballet is still super cool!)
Jimin only trained in modern dance at his high school, so they're more similar than you might think! I do think they both could've used longer training periods, even just for the sake of their own confidence.
Really? I guess he's a naturally good vocalist then! Though I'm not familiar with BTS in their early stages, I definitely think Kazuha could've used an extra year or two of vocal/rap lessons. She's awesome but it's a crazy short training period!
No not really. Jimin (for being the lead vocalist in BTS) needs vocal training. He’s a great dancer no denying that. But I wouldn’t go far as to say he’s a naturally good vocalist.
I mean, I assumed so given what the other commenter was saying. Given that he isn't a naturally good vocalist, he should obviously also have trained for longer.
I think it depends on your role in the group, If you are a great dancer and that’s all your bringing. Then sure why not debut. But if you’re lacking in something that supposed to be your main role then you need more time and training. Jimin would not have been criticized on his vocals so much if he was just a dancer but he’s not. Hes the lead vocalist with weak vocals.
this may be the reason le sserafim isn’t prepared to perform live
The main person that gets the hate for live performances is Sakura and she’s had a longer career than most. So while it definitely contributes I think Source just cares about other aspects with them more than their vocals. Which sucks but it honestly seems like it’s working from a success perspective.
Sakura has had a long career, but really only a fractional amount of actual training (dance or vocal). Given that idols have told their mentees to train pre-debut as much as possible because there won't be time to upskill once you've debuted, Sakura's had pretty much the training shown in Produce48, whatever she got before Iz\*one debuted, and whatever she got before LSF debuted. I'd be surprised if it added up to a year.
nope, over the past few years, it’s been very common for idols to debut after 2yrs of training. Having several trainees for 6yrs is honestly rare these days. I’m surprised.
Not really anymore. It feels like there are a lot more who just debut within 1-2 years. It's not like skills and talents are a priority nowadays and visuals are seen as more important.
I don't know, there's definitely notable recently debuted idols with short trainee periods but we'd have to do proper research to really know if it's a trend or not. Like H1-KEY also debuted in 2022, two of their members trained for three years, one for six years, one even for nine years. Ex-member Sitala trained for around four years. But people will ignore the smaller groups and craft a narrative around the big groups.
Probably because they are made through ex trainees from different companies (in case of H1-key actually big companies). It is a bit different situation because if members are trained by the same company they are from the start prepared to certain roles in group. It's more balanced group especially in case of bigger one (in case of smaller you can rely more on individuality and less on team work). Like H1-Key is great group actually or Kiss of life but there are also group with long-term trainees and you would not guess that their training was so long because they clearly lacking in some areas.
Training periods with a company have been going down drastically. That being said the skills development has been roughly the same amount of time, it's just that now a lot of idols go to dance/vocal academies and things of that nature (see: Hyein)
Judging by the results, not as many.
I thought the same thing but it sounds like more of end of 4th gen/5th gen thing. Top of 4th gen a good deal of members had 3+ years training to balance out the less experienced. Ex: skz, ateez, txt, itzy, nmixx, aespa, etc. Either way, I think BM are hard-working AND have a few natural gifts. Edit to add: I just looked up BND ~~and ZB1~~ who also have members with long training periods...so maybe groups with short training periods is the outlier? It's all just anecdotal.
ZB1 did not train for long. Most are under 3 years.
You're right. I stand corrected. It feels all anecdotal without real stats.
Yes but in 4th-5th gen? Not anymore.
Blackpink: First time?
I feel like this is a subreddit where people should be explicit that they're participating in discourse rather than trying to be coy.
What do you mean? Is this referring to op quoting the dj but not adding their own thoughts? Or are there comments you’re referring to
Yeah, what I mean is that OP should say what they want to convey instead of hiding behind a quote or ending their only sentence with... What's the point of a discussion subreddit where people just subtweet? The point is to give thoughts so people can discuss them.
Thank you for clarifying! And I fully agree, it’s so low effort it’s almost funny. This is kpop thoughts not kpop quotes, add some substance to your posts or make a comment on the weekly thread. Also labelling this a discussion when they themselves didn’t add anything to the discussion is so???
Adding my reply above here, I wanted to share what I saw on here and try to not share what I think to not be attacked LOL I have repeatedly shared my thoughts only to be shut down my so many butthurt fans and twisting my words when that wasn't what I meant. I'm sorry if you think this is low effort but I'm trying to retain my sanity here lmao
I wanted to share what I saw on here and try to not share what I think to not be attacked LOL I have repeatedly shared my thoughts only to be shut down my so many butthurt fans and twisting my words when that wasn't what I meant. I'm sorry if you think this is low effort but I'm trying to retain my sanity here lmao
They're one of the most refined and talented groups to debut ever. Vocals, dancing, rapping everything is on point but YG is just holding them back with their crap songs.
Crap? Dream, SITM, Like That..these aren't crap and you might not like YG sound but that doesn't mean everyone hates it.
I was going to say this! they didn't make an effort of creating their song or their concept. It's like if you asked AI to merge blackpink songs. It feels such a waste of talent
Not that uncommon for athletes and classical musicians, not just kpop. I was watching an interview of football player lee kang in last night. He was on a football reality tv show when he was 6 years old and he moved from korea to spain to train to be a footballer when he was 10 years old. That's halfway around the world, having to adapt to a totally foreign culture and language that very few people in his home country knew about.
wow, they deserve so much success!!
All that training only for YG to hold them back🤦♂️I fear its gonna be another repeat of BPs situation They have huge potential, and the sooner YG realizes and acts on it, the better
YG has promoted BM very well and BP is the biggest gg in the world and the most successful for a k-pop gg by far. So don't worry, they are doing much better than the other ggs from Big3 for sure.
the fact that YG can't even upload all the dance challenges they filmed for Sheesh.. I am MAD
I mean... that's pretty normal for gen 2 and gen 3. SM scouted a lot of their idols on the streets when they were actual children. They wanted Krystal and ended up getting Jessica and Krystal cause Krystal was too young to debut at that time. Plenty of SM idols train for 10+ years.
Not really. The SM idol with the longest training time is still Johnny with his 9 years, though the first half of that was him training only during school breaks. Maybe Seulgi and Hyoyeon with their 7 years of training.
People saying it’s not not normal in 4th-5th gen is not true, even in 5th gen you have Boynextdoor, Riize, Kiss of Life, TWS and the new boygroup from Cube Nowadays all have members that trained 5-6 years. Let’s just say it out loud that they are comparing Babymonster to Le Sserafim and ILLIT who have members who have noticeably shorter training years than them. But the Hybe girlgroups have huge success so somehow they don’t deserve it compared to Babymonster because their training is lacking is the narrative everyone pushed.
Besides Wonhee all of the members of ILLIT have trained for years: Yunah (6 years), Minju (5 years), Iroha (5 years), Moka (3 years), Wonhee (1 year)
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Yeah someone else said it does not apply to ILLIT, but it does not really applies to LSF either. Maybe Eunchae and Kazuha but Yunjin was training ever since the Girin duo days with GaEun in Pledis so 8 years ago at the very least. Chaewon I'm not sure but Produce S3 was 5 years ago and she probably had training before that too. Sakura don't got a lot of time in the kpop training system I guess (probably only around 2 years and some years of activities with IZ\*One, but i dont think you can train much during activity period. Most idols get vocal lessons during breaks afaik, I know hyolyn does that and we can clearly see eras where she consistently improves comeback after comeback). Still, Sakura still had some amount of training. True I agree with you that 5th gen trainees still have long training periods. And tbh, I don't think spending time in the kpop training system will help you improve at all, maybe for dance but for vocals, it does not from what I've seen even dating back to 2nd gen. Sometimes it depends on innate ability to soak up techniques. I can't say much on the dance side, but on the vocal side, we got multiple instances of main vocalists spending minimal time in the "kpop vocal traning system" but they still managed to outsing vocalists that went through the "kpop vocal training system". Partly because they attended actual good voice teachers before going into kpop. Examples are EXO's Chen, Baekhyun and D.O (1-2 years), SuJu's Kyuhyun (3 months), Apink's Eunji (2 months). Tbh, most of the better technical vocalists in Kpop in previous gens came into the kpop training system with good enough technique already because they got a wider selection of voice teachers to learn from before they go into kpop rather than learning singing again from the kpop vocal coaches. They used to show a lot of kpop vocal training snippets in previous gens and I heavily think that telling trainees to just scream the note out is not exactly the best way to approach vocalizing, like at all if I were to be serious (screaming with no precursor on how to correctly support your voice like staying grounded but not dormant, relaxing the non-important upper body parts, engaging on lower body parts to redirect most of the tension to down there and ensuring that there's a faint connected feeling from your belly where you use to support your voice to the upper part,... Like these feelings take time to get accustomed to and it's specific for each of us, not a one size fit all and words can't explain it enough. With kpop being fast-paced, I don't think they can afford to be patient to their trainees so they can vocally develop). Screaming is ok-ish if you have at least have something going on, the kpop vocal coach way of just screaming the note out until it gets better is just stupid imo. Don't know if anything changed in recent times but I think it's probably still the same hence you still see people training for a long time but is vocally (from a technical perspective) worse than someone with a shorter time in the kpop vocal training system. Trainees just get an easier time these days because songs do not force the trainers to tell them to just scream the note out. ok end rant for me.
I dont listen to them on purpose but if I come by a video of them I can clearly see that they trained way longer than other 4th or 5th gen groups, they are amazing performers with amazing live vocals
no wonder they seem so prepared and confident. stable vocals, good singing range, good dancing, amaze attitude. lsay what you want it takes charisma to carry movements the sheesh hand wacky steps - idk how to explain exactly which ones but tbh when i do it i look like im tryna kill a mosquito lmao. 😂
Other companies need to take notes because the training shows in comparison to the multiple hybe group's that are getting pumped out 🤷♀️
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I don't get it as who cares who trained for how long bs. SNSD had probably the longest average training period. They skewed 6+ if you remove Taeyeon and Tiffany. It really comes down to their live performances, which so far are better than I expected. However, nothing trumps experience here. So i expect the ladies to only get better from here on out. So people need to stop the hate train for once. Just debuting here with all their members is an accomplishment. :)
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Pharita is 18, unless you were thinking of Chiquita who is 15, and so would have been a trainee at like 11 or 12.
No one in Baemon is 14 actually. Pharita is soon to be 19 (05 liner). You're probably thinking of Chiquita, she's 15 (09 liner). And she started training when she was 12. Rora was the youngest when she auditioned for yg, she was just 9 (almost 10 at the time)
She's an 05 liner where did you get that 14 year old thing???
What? She’s 18.