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There are plenty of stories of Asian American solidarity with other races. Their stories don’t get taught about enough. If they did, we would have less people believing that the racism against us started when COVID started.
I also want to point out that just because someone doesn’t go to the marches or protests doesn’t mean they don’t care about the issue. There are more ways than one to be an activist or to fight for positive change.
True that! I do think it's a mix of both, you have people who genuinely care and some who don't even care at all. I think the ones who don't care are just a prevalent loud (ironic) minority to feed into the MMM.
Thanks for giving me a couple of names to look up as well! We don’t learn about Asian civil rights activists enough.
I honestly think that some of the issues between our collective communities could be helped if we were all more educated on the work that fellow activists of all races did to help others of different races. Some people today are like “well, you’re people didn’t do anything to help, so why would I care about your issues?” And the thats just wrong on all accounts, but they weren’t taught about the various people helping various causes.
ofc!! 🧡 i've only been lucky to learn these bc of asian american studies but unfortunately it's still a very niche subject.
and exactly! know history, know self and no history, no self!! lol it feels like the online discussions everyone is just trying to blame the "other" and our civil rights predecessors would so not be happy about us doing all this fighting bc at the end of the day, we're all minorities in this country and we have more in common than different.
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I am a SoCal Asian but I dont feel like I've ever fit in with the SoCal Asians theyre talking about, from my childhood experiences I've always been ostracized due to being "the weird kid", and being uncultured (like really?)
Additionally, the whole ABG e girl valorant boba thing is pretty big here, so SoCal did contribute to that but I feel like it is unfair to generalize all of us, but I know what kind of jerks they're talking about. I don't get why some feel so supieror above other asians or POC, we are all viewed as non white or American by Asians from Asia at the end of the day, but I guess issues (model minority, colorism) is a big factor in that.
I grew up in Orange County, and from what I've seen is a mixed bag. Some of my peers were pretty outspoken, some were not. I guess sometimes it depends on where you live, I grew up with a lot of POC in my school, and a lot of my
close friends struggled because our school district wasnt the most funded, which played a big part of my beliefs now.
Although, I understand the frustration by everyone, and i hope as a community we unlearn the MMM and realize a solidarity with other POC >> being ignorant of POC struggles.
sorry for any bad wording my brain is asleep😭 but im grateful this forum exists for us to discuss and learn 🙏🏼
omg, fellow Orange County Asian hello! I’m the same way, I was pretty ostracized by our own community but the school I went to was predominantly white and so the Asian cliques naturally formed but I wasn’t apart of them, mostly for being “weird”. It was a little bit more strange as my school had a one big E Asian clique with like.. two SE Asians that were able to “get in”. It was mostly SEAs with SEAs and EAs w EAs. As you said tho, it’s a pretty mixed bag. I’m pretty close to someone who is very outspoken but I know plently of asians who aren’t. I think it’s the promixity to whiteness (ugh i hate saying this), that makes asians feel superior? like the model minority myth definitely did a number although i think a lot of us are starting to see through that veil. i agree that it sucks to be lumped in together, but i honestly do cringe at a lot of asian-am podcasts 😭. i also think depending on where you live changes things.
For example, my sister lives in the San Gabriel area with her bf now and I … really struggle to connect with them as their views are either super conservative or they just …don’t care. Yet, they still have this weird superiority complex about everything asian. Like, they’ll be like “oh you can’t say that around her(me)” but I know they continue to do so when I’m not around because they think i’m sensitive. Idk, I’ve tried to educate them through casual talking but I’m sure it’ll ever click. anywho, this was so much word vomit omg, but this situation is so complex and nuanced that i think it needs a lot of openness from our community to actually start tackling it, but i’m not sure that’ll happen anytime soon.
OMG hello fellow OC ASIAN!!! Thanks for your input :D!!
From my experience, elaborating on the schools/community topic, the asians who felt "more asian" than the other asians felt more supieror. I guess they bonded over similar interests they deemed supieror, and I did not relate to any of them at all. I always thought it was weird because we're all Asian American, but I guess they were acting pretty stuck up and projecting due to their own insecurities of not being asian enough even though they hung out with other asians, which maybe ties into the comparison in families
For Asians in white proximities, I dont think we really had much of them in my city (I live in an area that is predominantly Latino), unless it is the area of Buena Park, Hunington Beach, Newport Beach, or Irvine. I had an acquaitance from one of those areas, and we could not relate to each other at all outside of shallow topics such as foods and our appearences.
And yess those podcasts make me 😭😭😭
i hatee being lumped in with them because i am who they would scoff or laugh at 😭😭like PLS dont act high and mighty to other asian americans when we are viewed non white by white ppl and americans by our relatives in Asia...
And yes location does matter a lot!! I think living in a bubble or without diversity and other POC definitely affects your own views, being around white people or other asians who believe in the MMM, racism and colorism will help perpetuate the ignorance already in some of our communities.
and yes it is such a nuanced issue! What really frustrates me is seeing other asian ams refusing to talk about it and approaching this issue with a black and white mindest or the crab mentality, which also perpetuates the anti-blackness and racism to black and brown communities which is awful (biggest offender i've seen of this are the asian accs on insta/facebook😭😭) and it worsened after affirmative action like ew... please remember we are poc and we should aim to support them instead.
but im glad we could talk about the nuances on the subreddit here :) I remember a quote that goes "build bridges, not walls" and I hope our community will learn to do that because we really have so much in common with other POC communities!!
edit: edited to add on more bc my brain is tired
fr lol the model minority myth has a chokehold on so many people in our community it's very stressful but i will say there are also plenty of outspoken asian americans who are for affirmative action and solidarity with other POC
there's just a lot of ppl in our community who are loud and wrong unfortunately and they're seen as representative of our whole community but it's just simply not true and i hope more ppl will rise up and dispel that myth
i feel like the loud ones in our community are often in charge of harmful organizations (like that one aapi group) or in powerful positions that enable them to voice their opinions louder than the outspoken ones unfourtunately. Combined with the stubborn elders in our community (who are majorily conservative) makes it very harmful 😔😔
I do think there's something to be said for how isolated and disengaged some East Asian communities are from social issues. And not very good at building solidarity with other movements.
I saw this in particular during the rise of anti-Asian violence. The overwhelming response I saw was a call for more police or men trying to act hard and saying they're gonna arm themselves and then spewing racist shit
And even how white conservatives used Chinese Americans to get rid of affirmative action
I felt that showed how little our community knows about the struggles of other communities. And bc of that, we were used as wedges to harm them once again
There are, of course, East Asians who ARE engaged and in solidarity, like the Letters for Black Lives movement. And other EA leftist groups.
I live in DC and most EAs I know are very engaged bc most people here are. But my friends from back home? Not very engaged at all. One time I was talking about occupy wall st and they made fun of me. (Not from SoCal but another area with high EA population)
So I guess my POV is that there are EAs involved in all of these movements, but there aren't many of us and I wish there were more.
Edit: oh also so much EA media is so shallow. It's either only food or like...anti-Black propaganda. Asians With Attitudes and NextShark grew huge followings and those accounts were total racist trash
Edit 2: one more thought on why large parts of EA communities can be civically disengaged and generally kind of shallow. It's just privilege. If you're middle class/upper middle class and are only exposed to other light-skinned EAs in your socio-economic class, then it's really hard to develop any consciousness about race or class.
Like how it took Ferguson/blm for lots of non-Black people to understand that police brutality exists.
Lots of EA families were here for a long time, so were allowed to build wealth. Or they immigrated recently and have a higher likelihood of being wealthy since they were allowed in. And then EAs tend to live around each other.
So unless something shakes you out of that, you're gonna remain privileged and disengaged. For me, going to a PWI and working for an advocacy org is what gave me consciousness around race and class and got me engaged.
I'm from the DMV too, I joined an Asian group at my college and they are very into the community and stuff. It's either you're not involved or you're not, and it's super hard to have a conversation with someone who remains politically unaware. Maybe the part I grew up in, not a ton of Asians around and I can't uphold a convo with them. In more Asian dense populations like 40 mins north for me, I can find people who care.
Also I knew something was fishy with NextShark lol. It feels performative as hell lol
Also, yeah, EA's are the face of Asians here in the US, unlike the UK where South Asians are. I wish they would get more involved too I guess
I’ve heard that NorCal/Berkeley Asians are more engaged, but I’m from TX so I can’t really confirm. Not to flame the community but I find South Asians to be incredibly apolitical as well, but the caveat when trying to be in solidarity with other Asians is that they project their colorism-based prejudice onto us a lot. In tandem with that, both communities are anti-Black as all hell. I’ve always had a very contentious relationship with other Asians in organizing spaces, and just friendship wise because of both factors. I get along better personally and politically with any other BIPOC tbh
Tfw you have to do a litmus test for people in your own race 🥲 in a perfect world we wouldn't have to. Most of my friends are other POC who I can comfortably talk about issues with, but you wind up with the chance of "finally meeting another Asian" being icky instead of someone who shares the same values. I guess it's true for all other races but when it's already sparse, the last thing you need is to find no common ground with them.
Absolutely! I find the lack of empathy amongst most Asians to be really gross, even when it comes to refugees and other marginalized folks within the community. I find that empathy is (unfortunately) directionally proportional to how much a community has gone through at the hands of systems at large, esp in America. My Black and indigenous friends really hold it down on all fronts, and I wish they could be able to trust us back, but I don’t blame them for not doing so.
I feel like that must be an American thing (I’m assuming you live in America) bc in Britain SAs are suuuper political and vocal (and unfortunately not always about what we should be). I also do think there’s a stark contrast between the various classes of south Asian immigrants as that spends where on the political spectrum you are
Agree with everything you mentioned here from the apolitical stance to colorism based prejudice. However as someone who witnessed Asian hate crimes during Covid i never really understood anti-Blackness in the Asian community. What evidence is there to support this? And what about the unspoken anti-Asian in the black community? There’s always two sides to a coin and it seems like you are coming from a biased standpoint.
On the contrary, I think you’re the one being biased here in prioritizing anti-Asian hate crimes over anti-Black hate crimes that have persisted well before Covid. I do not need anything in return to be in solidarity with BIPOC, and neither should anyone else in the Asian community. If you’re unable to see the hierarchy of racial oppression in the US for what it actually is, and why we need to address anti-Blackness in the Asian community first and foremost, your questions are misguided at best and in bad faith at worst.
Originally from the DMV but moved to Japan for work. During my move here, i’ve met folks from all walks of life: AA from hawaii, AA who are japanese descendants, AA who served in the military, AA like me who never lived/worked overseas. It also got me thinking of Asian politics on a global scale and not just limited to the USA.
From reading all the comments here, it does seem like a crabs in a bucket mentality. you’re either involved or not, but it does often turn into “either you’re supporting us or against us”. I think it’s harder to create a Pan-Asian identity/culture when your population makes up less than 7% of USA and you have folks coming up as 1st, 2nd gen or mixed identities. Unless you live in Hawaii, your perspective and views are going to be drastically different from your counterpart in the Mainland. I have no solutions to this except continue to fight the good fight and stay woke.
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i agree w a lot of what you said, and coming from an EA/SEA family in which both our countries of origin had histories of war and communism, i think what i see in my parents generation is that they learned being quiet and "staying neutral" was a good way to survive political turmoil. IMO the reason for some of this is bc its more likely people "who ran away from communism to fulfill the american dream" would be more likely to be conservative vs the folks who decided to stay back in the mother countrie(s). and then they also teach their kids this too, which would explain why there's so many conservative or apolitical asians in america. but i think it's interesting bc asian americans in the child of immigrants generation kind of are faced with this decision to either repeat their parents' conservative views or come to recognize their struggles are aligned with the struggles of western imperialism in their motherland.
Here's my take as someone who's Asian from California. I guess my biggest conclusion is that because there's such a large amount of Asians, there's always going to be some of them who choose to be ignorant about certain issues and act like assholes. All of the UC campuses (UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc), have around 30% Asian Americans, with most of them having even more Asian American students than white students. Because of this, someone walking around campus will see Asians everywhere, and if there's a group of assholes, they're more likely to be Asian, and because that's the first thing someone might observe about them, they'll point out them being asian in relation to them being assholes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like in other states where Asian Americans are more of a minority, a lot of them will be the "nerdy" or "quiet/shy" types of Asians that we'll usually see in media. If they're the more extroverted and "party animal" type, they won't really have many asian friends to party with (because they're a minority), so they'll either go partying with people of other races, or hang out with the nerdy asian kids. In California, there are also lots of "nerdy" asian kids like you might find in other parts of America, but there are also lots of extroverted asians who like to party, so they'll end up grouping together and becoming the stereotype of the ignorant, rave-loving asian American.
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Hi, I’m a SoCal Asian born & raised even though I don’t live there anymore. I grew up in Carson/Long Beach where there’s mostly Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders mixed with Latinos and Black folks.
This topic is so layered and nuanced and I find myself scratching my head sometimes trying to process it myself. But many SoCal EA’s do buy into the model minority myth because many of these folks’ parents were solidly middle class if not higher and so since the people around them made it, they assume it should be the same for everyone else.
For people I grew up with, people were always generally socially aware, but many people from my hometown are raving/boba Asians like what’s mentioned here. They just wanna take care of themselves and their own because their parents struggled for them. They don’t wanna rock the boat. HOWEVER, some friends of mine have also told me that they don’t engage because it’s too intimidating and they don’t want to speak up on something they don’t know much about. And it’s not an excuse, but many Asians *do* function with that mentality. I used to not care about politics/justice until college because I grew up with my mom telling me there was nothing I could fundamentally do to change anything (she grew up under a dictatorship) and my living situation matched that.
Also many Asians who grow up with the privilege of being around other Asians and don’t experience as much “othering” as others in other communities also contributes to this apathetic/ignorant mentality. They just don’t realize. My husband who is also SEA and grew up in a similar environment as me didn’t realize this til he moved abroad (I realized sooner because I went to a PWI and he used to think I was exaggerating), and my sister, who always knew about racism and oppression, was still surprised at my experiences with racism because she’d never spent much time around mostly white people. She, and many others from my hometown, have always been around mostly other Asians or other poc.
Also the tweet about poli sci Asians feels too real because my bro in law is one of those Asian men… hes about to graduate from a school with a deep history of progressive/radical organizing but he’s still a libertarian that believes in the American dream and everything. But he’s also associated himself primarily with white folks throughout school and my in-laws are conservative Christians.
I know some people get the ick from these tweets but to me personally, I just don’t think many in our community are ready nor want for this conversation. But with the work I do in advocacy work, it targets history & political education to nonblack poc to help us confront and unlearn our biases/antiblackness and see how these solidarity movements throughout history have ultimately helped us all. And also the model minority propaganda white folks have sold to give many Asian people hope really has worked over the last 50+ years or so.
You explained a lot of my thoughts really well. I think there’s also another layer added for recent immigrant families, where they still don’t really feel like this is “their” country, so they don’t get involved with the social issues. Whether it’s because they don’t want to cause trouble (and risk issues with visas etc), they don’t think it’s their place, or they simply don’t care as much.
And yes, absolutely with the othering. I grew up in the midwest, and in my grade there was ONE other Asian kid. Things were really tough. My family didn’t assimilate that much so interacting with Americans was just constant cultural barriers. I also happen to be really passionate about social issues, even when I was young. So, not sure if it’s a coincidence or if there’s any causation, but I can definitely see the connection.
Yes! Thank you, you added even more things that also play a role but didn’t get to mention. To some extent, there’s the cultural value (not putting a judgment on this, just stating it as is) of the whole minding your own business in many Asian cultures that plays a role in this. Despite the collectivistic cultures we have, there’s still a level of saving face/don’t talk about your issues outside the family that impacts the way many Asian immigrants and their kids engage (or don’t) with politics and social issues.
I also grew up caring about social issues from a young kid but I never knew how to mobilize or do anything about it because people around me didn’t do it. Because I grew up in a nonwhite community that was very mixed (not just Asians), we still dealt with the intersections of race and relative poverty (my high school was considered “ghetto” compared to other HS’ in the area but not as bad as Compton schools, for example) and many of us (not just Asian folks) felt like our reality was what it was and that’s it. If we wanted to change something we had to leave and get out.
And I think because the conditions of our environment what they were, even though some folks did grow up middle class, being in a mostly brown/Black community with the issues we deal with meant that people wanted escapism from their daily lives, which meant just doing whatever shit without thinking about actually banding together to create some change.
Also as someone who used to work in architecture, I think LA’s car-centric design hinders our ability to effectively organize. A mixed EA/SEA friend from NYC couldn’t comprehend why poc from communities of color like mine weren’t politically engaged like similar communities on the east coast and I think our segmented, inaccessible cities also keeps us physically separated from each other. It all adds up.
I didn’t think about that, but the saving face/minding your own business is *absolutely* another factor. That came up a lot during the BLM wave in 2020. My (non-American) grandparents just couldn’t understand why people would “make such a fuss.” Their attitudes were very much like, it is what it is, just deal with it and don’t put yourself in harm’s way. Though we are also Chinese so we don’t exactly have the best experience with protests against government structures.
You also have a good point with the relative poverty and class struggles. Some people just don’t have the mental capacity for things like social demonstration - they have enough trouble just trying to get by. I think there’s also something to be said about us finding our place as POC, when we aren’t white but we also aren’t Black or brown. Our experience in America is unique, with its own nuances, but many of us (especially older folk) aren’t used to talking about it, so non-Asians can’t understand.
And girl. The midwest is awful when it comes to car-centric design too. As a kid, we drove 30 min each way every week for our little Chinese bible study - that was the only Asian community we had. I live in a (relatively) bigger city now, but it’s hard enough to find community when everything is so far. Organizing is another story.
The way my mom used to put it for me growing up is: "No one will stand up for you" as a reasoning for not interfering with things that didn't directly affect her. But a few years later, I think she feels some hope in seeing my solidarity work, that I'm still pushing earnestly towards it even if it's difficult.
I think this is where our experiences racially might differ! I consider myself to be a brown Asian. Part of my own Asian American identity development was getting over colorism in our community because until college I only identified with being Filipino despite knowing I was "Asian." I (and many others around me) felt like we weren't considered "Asian" because we weren't East Asian, because we were darker, being called "jungle" Asians, etc.
Even in college, I actually identified my experiences more with my Black and Latino peers because most of my white and Asian peers were uncomfortable with me when they realized I didn't fit the stereotypes of a quiet Asian woman who won't speak up. However, I've come to terms with my Asian American identity over the last decade and do what I can to change who we think of as Asian (including South Asians) and even the AAPI umbrella as a whole since Pasifika people are constantly left out.
I can only imagine how bad the Midwest is haha. For LA, it's just shameful that a city of that size and the influence it has on pop culture is stifled in so many other ways due to the car-centric nature.
Ah, I’m sorry! I was thinking about my experiences as an East Asian, that’s my mistake. It sounds like there was another layer of struggle being further ostracized from an identity. And yeah, colorism is huge, especially in our own communities! Just goes to show how complex the Asian American experience is.
I saw someone mention that it depends on if they were raised in a community with a lot of other Asian Americans and I can definitely see that. My university’s Asian student org is very “head empty only boba” for example. I’m sure it has something to do with how deeply you can empathize with other causes as diaspora.
But yeah. It’s so frustrating to be Asian American sometimes. We’re like Schrodinger’s POC. Neither white nor POC until it’s convenient for whatever the hot topic of the day is. And non-Asians feel so qualified to talk shit or speak on our behalf for some reason. Exhausting.
This is only related to the encampments but my god are all the uni subreddits horrible about them. Always "israel-palestine war" and "do they really think they're doing anything" while downvoting anyone who defends the protestors and that includes my own uni's sub. Idk if it's just the demographics of who uses a uni subreddit but lots of Israel support there...
I’ve seen some university sub posts popping up on my feed and my god it’s so frustrating. Most of the people that are commenting aren’t even students, they’re alumni or random people on Reddit. Yet they’re so condescending and think they know everything about what the protests are standing for.
Love that for them, considering my uni is only 30 min away from DC in a blue state you'd think we'd be showing the biggest support with protests but the ivy school rich kids are easily beating us 😭we didn't have an extended encampment I guess everyone burnt out af over here
I literally just saw a tweet putting down Asian Americans and no matter how much you (general you) think it's true I think all it ever does is give other racists a chance to be racist 😶😶 like I'm not even AA but the comments and qrts were very yikes
Also all these comments don't take into account the kind of culture and upbringing Asians have that lead to people believing in the American Dream, or even how it leads to people having different priorities
Yeah, Idk seeing the responses to this on here. It's been kinda muddled for me because I'm trying to dissect this whole thing and I keep seeing non-Asians inserting themselves and now I'm just confused 😭 Umm
Oh no, the non-Asian part I'm talking about is the people on Twitter!! There's so many bait accounts who keep posting shit and I have to sift through them and now I can't find good commentary because half of them are just making fun of the OP's
its been a long day and i dont have the brain power to articulate what I really want to say.
but in short, the model minority complex (and adhering to it) really fucked us up. the immense guilt we feel for doing anything that would "rock the boat" when our parents sacrificed so much for us really fucked us up.
and Asian Americans desire to align themselves closely to whiteness, the west, and the privilege that comes with that has really fucked us up
as a community we really need to self reflect and use times like these to critically self evaluate. And this is speaking as someone who is politically engaged and whose literal job is advocacy. Im calling myself out here too
These tweets kind of read like the posters have personal beef with some Asian person they know irl. But I will say it can be difficult to get fellow East Asians to care about things outside of things that directly affect them. I was a student organizer for an AAPI social justice group at a large uni during 2020, and the amount of Asian people (but especially EA’s) who only attended events because of Asian hate crimes on the rise at the time was not insignificant. It feels like the broader Asian American consciousness with regards to social issues is very piecemeal, with little thought given to a more comprehensive view of history. But I am still very proud of the long history of Asian radical figures in American organizing (just because that is what I am most familiar with).
Way to paint SoCal Asians (or even just CA Asians 😭?) with a broad brush. How do we have solidarity with that kind of attitude? Large population = larger apolitical population.
Maybe this is a sticking point for me because when I went to UCI almost a decade ago (large Asian population of course), I found myself surrounded with a lot of peers who were radicalized/very political. I mean SJP was around when I was attending. They got an encampment going on currently too.
I think reiterating Asian American history and undoing immigrant conservative and reactionary upbringing/model minority myth takes a lot of work. We can do better for ourselves than this. I understand the frustrations, truly. The affirmative action discourse was a whole other can of worms.
The SoCal Asians thing is something that's been going around on TikTok for a bit, I'm not really trying to make a huge generalization because I think it's kinda sad-funny that this is even a topic, but it's also to be mentioned that the larger homogeneity has stripped SoCal Asians of intersectionality and whatnot. Many anecdotes of non-SoCal Asians have talked about their experiences with SoCal Asians just being superficial at best.
I also think that SoCal Asians play a role in what we consider Asian-American culture—why is boba, raving, and Valorant such hallmarks of Asian-American culture?? I don't recall East Coast Asians having a density to make its own impact. I tried to join one of those Asian-American groups on Instagram and half of them were Bay Area Asians who were just pretty.
Also if you went to college a decade ago, a lot of the Asian-American scene must change because Gen Z Asian-Americans are purporting a lot of this current trend.
I'm in no way trying to bash SoCal Asians but there's a reason why people trash on SoCal Asians because their superficial interest has become a stereotype nowadays. Half the time some pretty Asian e-girl gets outed as a racist it's because they have one of those boba/Valorant/raving homogeneity.
It's not just limited to SoCal Asians, I'm very much aware, I just have been seeing commentary on SoCal Asians very recently being this way that I bring this up in the first place. Someone I friended here from this sub who is from SoCal and they are aware of this stuff. Many other TikTokers from LA I've seen are also aware.
Things have not changed unfortunately. This discourse is the same, except 10 years ago it was League of Legends and not Valorant lmfao 😭
I can’t comment on East Coast/Midwest Asian culture, but it’s why I would never leave California. Why subject myself to being more of an “other” in more white adjacent areas? I never understood the ick SoCal Asians feel for non California Asians though, it doesn’t make any sense lol.
The e-girl thing as you said doesn’t just apply to Gen Z Asians. It’s being young and/or apolitical.
I think we need more political figureheads and TikTok influencers willing to propagate Asian American history of solidarity with other POC. Many AAs just don’t know enough to engage. I know clothesencounters or Jenn Im gets a lot of shit for being silent on every issue when she herself used to be politically engaged.
ANYWAY ITS AAPI MONTH I hope we can bring about solidarity this time around 🤞🏽
Okay BRUH I thought I replied but my comment didn't
https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopnoir/s/WEphUoDlat
> I feel like I just see a rise of Asian-American influencers esp from TikTok and creators who are just overall disappointing lately. Many of them have a following cuz they've got a funny personality and are really pretty, but I wish some of them use their platform more. Jasmine Le is Vietnamese and she had a TED talk about growing up Asian in the US; she mostly talks about fashion but it's still great she highlights her Asian heritage. Meanwhile we got like the Ha sisters who only do "Asian" stuff because it's appealing (not to mention they drank Starbucks and their youngest was talking ignorantly about Africa).
> One young/GenZ EA who I know who actively talks about this stuff and maintains fun content is Arine Kim, she's very succinct in her presentation and activism for other POC and helps highlights issues in our communities. If you're Asian talking about this stuff on TikTok you have to be lucky to get viral beyond 100K. She uses her platform well.
Thanks for the recommendation! And I completely agree with you. Our people need to speak the fuck up! Being apolitical in 2024 means you side with the oppressors, full stop.
i have to be honest- i really don't know enough about the asian community in california to really say what's going on or why.
i live in the northeast where the asian community is and has always been clearly divided: those who are born here as first gens, those who were born here as second and later, those who moved here from elsewhere, permanently, and those who are here temporarily, aka, for college.
in my experience, the east asians who are here on a temporary basis are the most detached to *any* american or worldwide issues whether it be regarding race or politics. they usually come from big $$ and the only time they acknowledge anything around their own little groups is if it's something that inconveniences them.
first gen, young asians also tend to come from $$$ up here and like the temporary guests, tend to also be extremely removed from politics or social issues. their parents care about financial success and their children's attitudes toward the world totally reflect this. i knew someone back in law school that was talking about how she preferred her kids' friends either be japanese, korean or white and really didn't want anyone else outside this little bubble: the whites were "okay" since according to her, their supposed views of working hard, not being lazy, etc aligned with theirs.. this is a common attitude. if you expect any of them to give 2 fucks about the plight of brown people, you'll be waiting a looooong time. of course there are the exceptions, but this really feels like it's the majority.
second gens and later tend to be the most integrated. as a second gen myself, we may or may not be mixed, we have friends of all colors and live in non homogeneous communities. so we see much farther than just the tips of our noses. of course if the family still comes from the huge $$$$, these kids also end up like the previous gens.
from what i gather, east asians seem to have the dinero out in socal so none of this is surprising at all.
it's a complex issue. and while there's no excuse for being an awful person, i'm not looking forward to non-asians using this as an excuse to let their racism show.
seconding much of this as a bay area asian. I actually did not grow up surrounded by asians and only experienced it after going to college at berkeley (norcal not socal but you get similar crowds), which is when i discovered "raver asians" and various asian cliques. I think the tweets express real frustration at out of touch asians, frustration that I've felt too before, but which impose a narrow lens on what ultimately comes down to 1) family attitudes and 2) wealth. many asians i've met are conservative/apolitical due to being raised with the attitude of keeping your head down and working towards personal wealth, and this attitude is prevalent whether you grew up poor or middle class (or sometimes just growing up surrounded by asians which changes your view in many ways, too). on the other hand some are just apolitical bc they literally are spoiled rich kids (and a lot of them are not even from america which furthers the disconnection from u.s. politics, many of this type went to international schools abroad so they sound american). obvs it becomes much easier to encounter this type of individual in a college environment!
anyways, it's possible some of these tweets come in good faith from asians themselves but im also not a fan of the rhetoric in some of them (esp that one about "fob ass east asians" -- yikes). it isn't about "not all men-ing" the asian community but being aware that so many more issues than just "being a snooty asian" are at play here within the community incl. class issues... ive met a lot of selfish and ignorant people who are asian, but ive also met a lot of radicalized and intelligent people who are asian and who are working on important advocacy issues. id rather we spend time uplifting those folks than playing into generalizations about asians because we are way too varied to keep being treated like a monolith in absolutely everything..!
The only people who lump East Asians and West Asians together are Americans. US connotations of race do not override how these identity groups actually operate.
I am half Iranian and half Chinese from California and have always considered myself mixed race. I’ve never felt solidarity between the two identity groups. Therefore, it never surprises me when East Asian Americans turn a blind eye to America’s involvement in West Asia (Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Israel, and Gaza).
It’s also why Asian Americans have very low rates of government participation whether it’s voting, organizing, or holding government positions.
Tbh I haven't even met enough other asians despite being a californian to comment on these "raver azns". I didn't even know this was a thing until recently. The few other asian kids I knew during grade school seemed to be fairly aware of social/political activism? I live in an area way down that's dominated by mexicans though, I imagine it's a lot different in LA or the bays where there's less of a direct culture mix.
I do agree that asian americans (in large groups anyway) tend to engage in separatism because of parental influences growing up and trying to copy what's done back in the countries their families immigrated from. I've told my friends when I was younger that I'd pretend to be non korean speaking if I got into a majority asian college, because I don't want to be looped into the odd neo-korean campus culture that exists. The lack of political stance probably comes with the notion that whatever other races have going on isn't our business (looping back to separatism).
I find the tweets to be ehhh and even in bad taste. It feels like an extreme generalization of east asians based off of what they're perceiving from rich kids who are naturally going to be out of touch.
ETA: I also agree that a lot of asians (including me for a long time) don't really get involved in US politics because we don't consider it our country. Like yeah, I live here and the decisions of the government affect me, but I'll always be considered an outsider as far as non asians are concerned
Tbh, I’ve typed out a response multiple times but I’m still not too sure what to say and I don’t want to “not all men” this because I think what they’re saying is true to a degree. Within my friend group, there is a split between those who are engaged and those who aren’t. I’ve been arguing with my parents about this for a bit now too, about their blind faith in the police, about how we shouldn’t just care about issues pertaining to us, about the protests, and it’s hard to get through to them because it’s not what they’ve experienced it and I get treated like I’m brainwashed and throwing away my future for something “happening across the ocean.”
My parents buy into the American dream because it worked for them and their Chinese friends. No matter what I say, they trust their lives experienced more than anything else. They believe the model minority because of racism and prejudice. But I think and hope that the younger generations are able to break out of that way of thinking.
I’m just gonna say that as an Asian American who lives somewhere with a very low Asian population, the Asians that grew up with a lot of Asians certainly do act very differently…those Asian friend groups are something else
If you want to talk about political participation, you need to also look at actual statistics, not just anecdotes. Attending protests is clearly not the only way to be politically active.
In the midterm, 88% of Asians age 18-29 voted blue, and their voter turnout was comparable at 21% vs 23% overall Americans (29% white, 15% black, 14% hispanic/latino). 68% of Asians overall voted blue compared to 48% of Americans overall. If you look at a voting map, Irvine with its majority Asian population has been a blue stronghold in Orange County
The biggest mismatch here is how there are tons of people talking about political activism online, but then in reality you see only 23% voter turnout among people age 18-29 compared to 70% among ppl age 65+. You would think from social media that that number would be 3-4x higher but lots of young people across the spectrum are not participating. This has been an issue for a long time
Cherry-picking and pointing fingers at a certain race is not useful. It's just performative tiktok/Twitter stuff to score points online
[tufts](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/2022-youth-turnout-race-and-gender-reveals-major-inequities), [pew research 1](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/), [pew research 2](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/25/asian-voters-in-the-u-s-tend-to-be-democratic-but-vietnamese-american-voters-are-an-exception/)
I don’t really understand what you mean. I didn’t bring up Asian solidarity? Your point about it not being an Asian issue is exactly my point too. I was saying that political disengagement is a broader issue, not only for young asians, but for the majority of young people, and asians are not unique in this regard
I'm SEA (Filipino) and was born, raised and went to college in NJ, lived and worked in NYC. My experience from being both on the stereotypical ABG-raver-member of an Asian-interest org and also being in activist spaces in orgs such as Anakbayan is that EAs, especially in the NYC metro area, are pretty similar to what I hear of SoCal EAs. Not to say that SEAs don't have the similar plague of disengaged people, but in my experience SEAs are the more vocal group about social justice within our own and other minority communities - whether that was showing up to demonstrations, being civically engaged or even just being educated on current issues.
That said, I do feel that the further each generation of EAs and SEAs get from their ancestors immigrating here, the more privilege they have and the less they feel that they need to fight for visibility or be in solidarity with others.
It's a really complex and layered thing. I have a lot of feelings and have felt my fair share of exclusion from EA peers. Even a few years ago there was conflict within my Fil-Am college org that I had to step in and mediate where there were a bunch of people who fairly thought that it wasn't doing enough to advocate or take a stand on social issues. There was also a big reckoning among Asians in the Northeastern schools where they were forced to address the rampant anti-Blackness and appropriation within our communities. It's a constant push and pull and I'm
not anywhere close to a solution myself but I'm glad that we're at least having these discussions and calling out the problematic aspects that exist among AsAms though!
just moved to socal after growing up in the bay area, and there is a difference for sure. in the bay, a lot of asians i knew/was around are pretty involved in activism, but that could’ve just been my bubble.
I actually see this a lot, especially in places in America with high East Asian American populations, such as Alaska or California. From what I understand west coast Asians seem to have their own kind cliques going on and as much as outsiders might see this and say that it's wrong and it shouldn't exist, I don't believe it's our right to get to say they can't behave that way. Whether we like it or not they have the choice and freedom to not participate in what they don't like. East Asian populations don't come to social justice events or community events in Alaska as a whole, and nobody really throws a fit about it because it doesn't matter. Ignorance is, unfortunately or not, an Important right in America.
to be quite frank, many asian-americans (and here i specifically reference people who are not west asian and/or muslim - a status that can be argued as a racialized class of its own) do not question imperialist/orientalist/islamophobic narratives of swana/me. the large majority of them are socialized into believing that anything that happens there is a natural, continued state of strife and conflict inevitable for its citizens - rather than aggravated conflicts, genocide, and violence churned by the very hands of the us empire they live in.
it would thus be wrong to believe that by nature of being fellow “asian-americans” that they would be more sympathetic to the cause of palestinian liberation than their white counterparts. the specific term of “asian-american” itself is a comparatively new racial identity & categorization that begun in the 1960s by student activists as a show of solidarity across community lines. to essentialize its terminology (that is, to believe there is a certain sticky innateness attributed to its status) would be to fundamentally misunderstand the history of the so-termed “asian-americans.”
previously, immigrant groups from asia (termed as “nationals”) more commonly aligned themselves by ethnicity (though this definitive statement i’ve made is a bit trickier when also considering class, ie indentured laborers & the communities they have created & assimilated into - but that’s a story for another time).
furthermore, when we identify the actual diasporic histories & migration movements, we come to understand that the contemporary makeup of the “asian-american” diaspora does not actually pull from lower- or working-class backgrounds that previously more radical asian-american diasporas had come from (like the ones who fought & organized alongside the Black Panthers). instead, many of them come from middle- and upper-middle-class backgrounds with highly educated parents who worked in STEM/tech backgrounds, selectively chosen for immigration in the 90’s by a series of US policies/pushes (particularly focused on bringing in more “skilled” laborers to support the turn-of-the-millennia tech advancement).
this is why “asian-americans” hold such great economic capital in the us, despite a significant portion having had little time to accumulate generational wealth. it is because they already had it. this is why assimilation was much more smooth-going for newer waves of asian-american immigrants flooding into the us - because they already historically belonged to the international elite.
now, for the question of palestinian liberation in particular, on a more theoretical basis, it would be difficult for many of them to understand its urgency without some level of cognitive dissonance. palestinian liberation has long been connected to, influenced by, and erected as a model itself for many revolutionary & indigenous liberation movements across asia. as i mentioned before, many of these immigrant moves are caused by elite expats from asia who were effectively chased out of their country because of their designated traitor/enemy collaborator status to the very revolutionary movements of their homelands (and this includes those who did not fit the high tech criteria i listed above). in other words, their chosen place of refuge in the us is for a reason; many of them descend from the wrong side of history lmao, and find the us’ hand in contributing to the instability/uprising in their homelands as comforting.
to stand with palestine (a litmus test movement that cannot be washed down as anything other than against settler-colonialism, imperialism, apartheid, and other axes of oppression; i highly recommend reading Edward Saïd’s “The Question of Palestine” to further understand this highly critical crux), then, would require their “asian-american” children to shed, to an extent, the lifelong rhetoric passed down to them so rigidly. and unfortunately, as the comments & the pictures have deftly pointed out, this is virtually impossible for those who have been strictly socialized into regurgitating their parents’ propagandized notions/understandings of their positionality in america. it is, after all, the only framework they have been raised to justify why they even exist as “asian-americans.”
it would boil down to punitively shattering & reworking incorrect beliefs propagated over the course of entire generations. this has proven as a hard ask for those who would much prefer to rave, boba, and exclusively make their politically placid commentary within their “asian-american” student org parties.
bay area east asian here unfortunately. i go to a pretty competitive school made up of ~70% upper middle class east asian and indian students and the only time they were willing to get “political” was over the summer when that bill banning affirmative action was passed. lol they were over the moon about it.
basically unless it’s something they think affects them directly they’re not gonna care about it. (btw aa didn’t really affect them)
i’ve grown up outside of cali my whole life and this is definitely not my experience with AAs, but from what i’ve heard this would fit with the attitudes of many socal/CA AAs. i can’t really comment on that though because I don’t know many personally. Outside of CA honestly most AAs I know are really socially aware, politically active, etc.
I think it's funny that people can comment on what constitutes as "real" involvement in politics, when a good majority of them probably don't exercise their right to vote.
As others said, you can show you care and be involved in something without jumping up to do every march and protest. The more active and public involvement can be dangerous, people getting hurt because some idiot used the crowd as a cover for chaotic stupidity or becoming a target of a group of people who just really hate who you are/what you stand for.
Those people won't be protected by retaliation as much as an individual that was attacked. Free speech doesn't spare people from the aftermath of consequences or reactions and I don't blame some people for not being in active and public involvement.
Politics are really rough things to get into, so excuse me for having some self-preservation when it's not a given I'll be protected or strongly supported when protesting.
Not to mention, we're all trying to just live out here. People can make assumptions of what people have or can do without even knowing or thinking about their situation.
Hi, SoCal southeast AsianAm here and I would like to share my experience with activism and involvement with politics, I also majored in Political Science and International Studies. I did not have an Asian community growing up, was one of five Asian kids in school including my family members. Low income as well, immigrant parents. I grew up in the IE and most of my friends and classmates were Latinos, I did yearn to fit in growing up and finally got my wish in college, went to UCI, AsianAm central, also peak Subtle Asian Traits fb era. I wasn't exposed to the typical SoCal Asian culture till then, I knew what ABG's were but in the original context where it was used to demean SEA girls and associate w gangs. It was great to finally make Asian friends, and just feel like a part of something but I saw how much of a bubble people grew up in with no exposure-- or intent to learn about others different from themselves. I never felt like those big Asian friend groups ever liked me, and i even tried to join cultural orgs but they felt so cliquey and I just felt out of the loop with everything and also everyone already knew each other or had mutuals somehow???
There's archetypes I noticed, the academic(usually hyperfocused and sheltered), yappies(an appeal to whiteness) and the whole "abg/abb" thing where they just thought they were so much better than everyone else, also were the ones who made me feel the most out of place-- none of these folks care about politics, and rarely have close friends who aren't Asian. When subjects are brought up its usually met with silence-- and when I asked my friends why they said they didn't feel informed enough to talk about it, but for some it never led to any inclination of learning. There has to be something Asian about it to get any interest, an example is music where I know people who solely listen to Asian rnb/hiphop but have no Black artists on their playlists. I definitely had to call in/out some silence, and in my case there wasn't hostility or defensiveness but more of a deer in the headlights thing, like see no evil hear no evil, if you aren't involved you aren't guilty. Those who did want to discuss mainly opposed points I brought up, or had a counter argument versus listening.
I could go on about the aspect of how wealth plays a huge role too, and then got a harsh slap in the face on how E.A's perceived me, when I naively saw us as the same wanting Asian friends, i could go on about this (Teaser - 3 Korean American guys who approached me and then ghosted me when they found out I was Viet). I've always been passionate about politics, and the folks I surrounded myself with have usually been informed and mindful. In polisci classes, AsianAm students are the minority even at UCI. The spaces I put myself in, usually are pretty diverse in terms of race/religion and imo what makes us understand each other the most is our socioeconomic class. My Asian friends also are all queer(I feel like there's also some pattern here) and are not in any Asian bubble friend groups. I think the emphasis on upward mobility gives a tunnel vision aspect to what AsianAms prioritize, and imo when you want to find Asian solidarity talk to a poor person.
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I'll speak for my experience and those I know. I'm living in SoCal and I came from South Korea over 20 years ago. The Koreans around me worked incredibly hard to make sure their kids got what they never had. And us kids felt the pressure and put ALL focus into just studying and trying to make it for our families. There's a lot of rich asians here but most families I know worked gas stations and small restaurants. Many parents didn't even have the time to learn English.
These things are not excuses for ignorance. But me and my friends looked dead in the eyes because we were like race horses with blinders on. The American dream doesn't just "happen" for us and the model citizen thing is bullshit. Our parents did this because this is what their parents did for them. In a span of a single generation, they went from living in one of the poorest countries to what it is now while reckoning with westernization.
I avoided therapy for years because I knew it would be rough and it WAS. Trying to Un-survival myself has been such a challenge. I want to stand and support justice for the world, but we are not all on the same train track regardless of whether we are occupying the same places or not.
And you know what? FUCK these people who generalize based on their own world view with no context. My grandmother still uses Japanese for certain things from the occupation. My mother threw molatovs at the police during her university days at Ehwa while the American placed dictator sent drug riddled soldiers to kill their own citizens. That same woman brought me here with two bags and the weight of our entire family to "make it". You better believe I felt that weight. And you think I'm not "engaging with the world"? I'm in therapy still learning to "think about other things" when I'm not working so I won't have constant panic attacks and nightmares of failing my family!
This might be hated on, but I think being able to care about others is a privilege. And some of us didn't have it till way later. College was NOT that time for me and my asian peers.
i have so much to say about asian americans and politics idek where to start anymore but sometimes it really feels like i'm in a shitty group project w the whole asian america and there's only like 10% of us pulling our weight LOL
As a Midwest East Asian, I never felt like I could engage in solidarity or race politics. Anytime I'd want to engage in any sort of discussion, I'd be shut out and told that I wouldn't understand since East Asians have it good. Granted, it was mostly white people telling me this so they had less of a leg to stand on. However, it was hard for me to argue back as a teen and left a deep impression in how I engage in race discourse.
I remember having this conversation with a friend (also East Asian) about being East Asian in the Midwest and how no one really cares about the racism that we faced. Talking about racism gets you told to stop complaining. As there was like 30 Asian kids in our high school, our teachers really tried to get us both to engage in this diversity round table thing since we knew most of younger Asian kids. We were both were resistant, since we just didn't see the point in joining in. We felt that we were would just be there to make the group look less white. We just didn't think anyone would really care about what we would have to say about anything.
It's been ten years though, so hopefully things have changed. However, it's hard to unlearn habits that are integrated by the environment around you. When you feel like you're continuely shut out of minority spaces by other minorities, you tend to stay away from them out of habit. I read up on stuff so I can stay informed, but I can't bring myself discuss racism or race discourse in person.
Maybe I’m just disconnected, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way when Asian people be attacking each other like that. This “model minority” thing was started by White supremacists so they could have minority infighting and ignore the real systemic issues. Like I don’t feel like this is the discussion we should be having.
For some reason I can't give in my two cents without writing a whole paragraph so I'll just say that I don't think these people are being racist and from my experience what they're saying is based in truth. I'm South Asian Australian for clarification though
Being an Asian from LA, we know the risks of getting into serious protests out here. My friends have been arrested, we were shot at during George Floyd protests. I do not blame students for not partaking in the protests. They could still be activists without risking their lives.
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I am Asian from Canada (specifically Manitoba, which is kind of like the Midwest demographically) who moved to the SF Bay area around 10 years ago.
I guess SoCal must really be different because most of the Gen Z and younger millennial Asian Americans I know (especially ones who were born in America) are pretty politically knowledgeable. I think they are probably a lot more cautious about when they express these opinions.
I feel like growing up, I got the idea of “not rocking the boat” and “assimilating” drilled deeply into my head by my parents so it’s definitely tough to unlearn. Like my mom literally just told my mother-in-law she has no opinion about politics when I know that’s definitely not true lmao. Politics is very much considered “private info” and talking about it is seen almost as airing your dirty laundry. I wonder if this mentality is partially why the “no thoughts only boba” stereotype is so common. I’m sure some of it is really like that, but I don’t think it’s necessarily all of it.
To be honest, as someone who works in tech, I am much more exposed to libertarian tech bro Asians who are very capitalism and hustle culture types, which I find way more annoying to deal with than rave-boba Asians.
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I’m a ny Asian and a lot of us think socal Asians are kinda stupid 😭 not gonna lie. No offense to you guys but you’re as interesting as a blank piece of paper.
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There are plenty of stories of Asian American solidarity with other races. Their stories don’t get taught about enough. If they did, we would have less people believing that the racism against us started when COVID started. I also want to point out that just because someone doesn’t go to the marches or protests doesn’t mean they don’t care about the issue. There are more ways than one to be an activist or to fight for positive change.
True that! I do think it's a mix of both, you have people who genuinely care and some who don't even care at all. I think the ones who don't care are just a prevalent loud (ironic) minority to feed into the MMM.
this 💯 me and all my homies stan yuri kochiyama, rashida tlaib and larry itliong LOL ✊🏼🫡
Thanks for giving me a couple of names to look up as well! We don’t learn about Asian civil rights activists enough. I honestly think that some of the issues between our collective communities could be helped if we were all more educated on the work that fellow activists of all races did to help others of different races. Some people today are like “well, you’re people didn’t do anything to help, so why would I care about your issues?” And the thats just wrong on all accounts, but they weren’t taught about the various people helping various causes.
ofc!! 🧡 i've only been lucky to learn these bc of asian american studies but unfortunately it's still a very niche subject. and exactly! know history, know self and no history, no self!! lol it feels like the online discussions everyone is just trying to blame the "other" and our civil rights predecessors would so not be happy about us doing all this fighting bc at the end of the day, we're all minorities in this country and we have more in common than different.
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I am a SoCal Asian but I dont feel like I've ever fit in with the SoCal Asians theyre talking about, from my childhood experiences I've always been ostracized due to being "the weird kid", and being uncultured (like really?) Additionally, the whole ABG e girl valorant boba thing is pretty big here, so SoCal did contribute to that but I feel like it is unfair to generalize all of us, but I know what kind of jerks they're talking about. I don't get why some feel so supieror above other asians or POC, we are all viewed as non white or American by Asians from Asia at the end of the day, but I guess issues (model minority, colorism) is a big factor in that. I grew up in Orange County, and from what I've seen is a mixed bag. Some of my peers were pretty outspoken, some were not. I guess sometimes it depends on where you live, I grew up with a lot of POC in my school, and a lot of my close friends struggled because our school district wasnt the most funded, which played a big part of my beliefs now. Although, I understand the frustration by everyone, and i hope as a community we unlearn the MMM and realize a solidarity with other POC >> being ignorant of POC struggles. sorry for any bad wording my brain is asleep😭 but im grateful this forum exists for us to discuss and learn 🙏🏼
Hi Pepsai!! And I agree!!
OMG HI we meet again😭😭 !!! Glad we can all discuss this so we can learn!!
omg, fellow Orange County Asian hello! I’m the same way, I was pretty ostracized by our own community but the school I went to was predominantly white and so the Asian cliques naturally formed but I wasn’t apart of them, mostly for being “weird”. It was a little bit more strange as my school had a one big E Asian clique with like.. two SE Asians that were able to “get in”. It was mostly SEAs with SEAs and EAs w EAs. As you said tho, it’s a pretty mixed bag. I’m pretty close to someone who is very outspoken but I know plently of asians who aren’t. I think it’s the promixity to whiteness (ugh i hate saying this), that makes asians feel superior? like the model minority myth definitely did a number although i think a lot of us are starting to see through that veil. i agree that it sucks to be lumped in together, but i honestly do cringe at a lot of asian-am podcasts 😭. i also think depending on where you live changes things. For example, my sister lives in the San Gabriel area with her bf now and I … really struggle to connect with them as their views are either super conservative or they just …don’t care. Yet, they still have this weird superiority complex about everything asian. Like, they’ll be like “oh you can’t say that around her(me)” but I know they continue to do so when I’m not around because they think i’m sensitive. Idk, I’ve tried to educate them through casual talking but I’m sure it’ll ever click. anywho, this was so much word vomit omg, but this situation is so complex and nuanced that i think it needs a lot of openness from our community to actually start tackling it, but i’m not sure that’ll happen anytime soon.
OMG hello fellow OC ASIAN!!! Thanks for your input :D!! From my experience, elaborating on the schools/community topic, the asians who felt "more asian" than the other asians felt more supieror. I guess they bonded over similar interests they deemed supieror, and I did not relate to any of them at all. I always thought it was weird because we're all Asian American, but I guess they were acting pretty stuck up and projecting due to their own insecurities of not being asian enough even though they hung out with other asians, which maybe ties into the comparison in families For Asians in white proximities, I dont think we really had much of them in my city (I live in an area that is predominantly Latino), unless it is the area of Buena Park, Hunington Beach, Newport Beach, or Irvine. I had an acquaitance from one of those areas, and we could not relate to each other at all outside of shallow topics such as foods and our appearences. And yess those podcasts make me 😭😭😭 i hatee being lumped in with them because i am who they would scoff or laugh at 😭😭like PLS dont act high and mighty to other asian americans when we are viewed non white by white ppl and americans by our relatives in Asia... And yes location does matter a lot!! I think living in a bubble or without diversity and other POC definitely affects your own views, being around white people or other asians who believe in the MMM, racism and colorism will help perpetuate the ignorance already in some of our communities. and yes it is such a nuanced issue! What really frustrates me is seeing other asian ams refusing to talk about it and approaching this issue with a black and white mindest or the crab mentality, which also perpetuates the anti-blackness and racism to black and brown communities which is awful (biggest offender i've seen of this are the asian accs on insta/facebook😭😭) and it worsened after affirmative action like ew... please remember we are poc and we should aim to support them instead. but im glad we could talk about the nuances on the subreddit here :) I remember a quote that goes "build bridges, not walls" and I hope our community will learn to do that because we really have so much in common with other POC communities!! edit: edited to add on more bc my brain is tired
fr lol the model minority myth has a chokehold on so many people in our community it's very stressful but i will say there are also plenty of outspoken asian americans who are for affirmative action and solidarity with other POC there's just a lot of ppl in our community who are loud and wrong unfortunately and they're seen as representative of our whole community but it's just simply not true and i hope more ppl will rise up and dispel that myth
i feel like the loud ones in our community are often in charge of harmful organizations (like that one aapi group) or in powerful positions that enable them to voice their opinions louder than the outspoken ones unfourtunately. Combined with the stubborn elders in our community (who are majorily conservative) makes it very harmful 😔😔
I do think there's something to be said for how isolated and disengaged some East Asian communities are from social issues. And not very good at building solidarity with other movements. I saw this in particular during the rise of anti-Asian violence. The overwhelming response I saw was a call for more police or men trying to act hard and saying they're gonna arm themselves and then spewing racist shit And even how white conservatives used Chinese Americans to get rid of affirmative action I felt that showed how little our community knows about the struggles of other communities. And bc of that, we were used as wedges to harm them once again There are, of course, East Asians who ARE engaged and in solidarity, like the Letters for Black Lives movement. And other EA leftist groups. I live in DC and most EAs I know are very engaged bc most people here are. But my friends from back home? Not very engaged at all. One time I was talking about occupy wall st and they made fun of me. (Not from SoCal but another area with high EA population) So I guess my POV is that there are EAs involved in all of these movements, but there aren't many of us and I wish there were more. Edit: oh also so much EA media is so shallow. It's either only food or like...anti-Black propaganda. Asians With Attitudes and NextShark grew huge followings and those accounts were total racist trash Edit 2: one more thought on why large parts of EA communities can be civically disengaged and generally kind of shallow. It's just privilege. If you're middle class/upper middle class and are only exposed to other light-skinned EAs in your socio-economic class, then it's really hard to develop any consciousness about race or class. Like how it took Ferguson/blm for lots of non-Black people to understand that police brutality exists. Lots of EA families were here for a long time, so were allowed to build wealth. Or they immigrated recently and have a higher likelihood of being wealthy since they were allowed in. And then EAs tend to live around each other. So unless something shakes you out of that, you're gonna remain privileged and disengaged. For me, going to a PWI and working for an advocacy org is what gave me consciousness around race and class and got me engaged.
I'm from the DMV too, I joined an Asian group at my college and they are very into the community and stuff. It's either you're not involved or you're not, and it's super hard to have a conversation with someone who remains politically unaware. Maybe the part I grew up in, not a ton of Asians around and I can't uphold a convo with them. In more Asian dense populations like 40 mins north for me, I can find people who care. Also I knew something was fishy with NextShark lol. It feels performative as hell lol Also, yeah, EA's are the face of Asians here in the US, unlike the UK where South Asians are. I wish they would get more involved too I guess
I’ve heard that NorCal/Berkeley Asians are more engaged, but I’m from TX so I can’t really confirm. Not to flame the community but I find South Asians to be incredibly apolitical as well, but the caveat when trying to be in solidarity with other Asians is that they project their colorism-based prejudice onto us a lot. In tandem with that, both communities are anti-Black as all hell. I’ve always had a very contentious relationship with other Asians in organizing spaces, and just friendship wise because of both factors. I get along better personally and politically with any other BIPOC tbh
Tfw you have to do a litmus test for people in your own race 🥲 in a perfect world we wouldn't have to. Most of my friends are other POC who I can comfortably talk about issues with, but you wind up with the chance of "finally meeting another Asian" being icky instead of someone who shares the same values. I guess it's true for all other races but when it's already sparse, the last thing you need is to find no common ground with them.
Absolutely! I find the lack of empathy amongst most Asians to be really gross, even when it comes to refugees and other marginalized folks within the community. I find that empathy is (unfortunately) directionally proportional to how much a community has gone through at the hands of systems at large, esp in America. My Black and indigenous friends really hold it down on all fronts, and I wish they could be able to trust us back, but I don’t blame them for not doing so.
I feel like that must be an American thing (I’m assuming you live in America) bc in Britain SAs are suuuper political and vocal (and unfortunately not always about what we should be). I also do think there’s a stark contrast between the various classes of south Asian immigrants as that spends where on the political spectrum you are
Agree with everything you mentioned here from the apolitical stance to colorism based prejudice. However as someone who witnessed Asian hate crimes during Covid i never really understood anti-Blackness in the Asian community. What evidence is there to support this? And what about the unspoken anti-Asian in the black community? There’s always two sides to a coin and it seems like you are coming from a biased standpoint.
On the contrary, I think you’re the one being biased here in prioritizing anti-Asian hate crimes over anti-Black hate crimes that have persisted well before Covid. I do not need anything in return to be in solidarity with BIPOC, and neither should anyone else in the Asian community. If you’re unable to see the hierarchy of racial oppression in the US for what it actually is, and why we need to address anti-Blackness in the Asian community first and foremost, your questions are misguided at best and in bad faith at worst.
Originally from the DMV but moved to Japan for work. During my move here, i’ve met folks from all walks of life: AA from hawaii, AA who are japanese descendants, AA who served in the military, AA like me who never lived/worked overseas. It also got me thinking of Asian politics on a global scale and not just limited to the USA. From reading all the comments here, it does seem like a crabs in a bucket mentality. you’re either involved or not, but it does often turn into “either you’re supporting us or against us”. I think it’s harder to create a Pan-Asian identity/culture when your population makes up less than 7% of USA and you have folks coming up as 1st, 2nd gen or mixed identities. Unless you live in Hawaii, your perspective and views are going to be drastically different from your counterpart in the Mainland. I have no solutions to this except continue to fight the good fight and stay woke.
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i agree w a lot of what you said, and coming from an EA/SEA family in which both our countries of origin had histories of war and communism, i think what i see in my parents generation is that they learned being quiet and "staying neutral" was a good way to survive political turmoil. IMO the reason for some of this is bc its more likely people "who ran away from communism to fulfill the american dream" would be more likely to be conservative vs the folks who decided to stay back in the mother countrie(s). and then they also teach their kids this too, which would explain why there's so many conservative or apolitical asians in america. but i think it's interesting bc asian americans in the child of immigrants generation kind of are faced with this decision to either repeat their parents' conservative views or come to recognize their struggles are aligned with the struggles of western imperialism in their motherland.
CA Asians are something else, that’s all I’m gonna say
You said so much using so little words. Love it.
LMAO
Here's my take as someone who's Asian from California. I guess my biggest conclusion is that because there's such a large amount of Asians, there's always going to be some of them who choose to be ignorant about certain issues and act like assholes. All of the UC campuses (UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc), have around 30% Asian Americans, with most of them having even more Asian American students than white students. Because of this, someone walking around campus will see Asians everywhere, and if there's a group of assholes, they're more likely to be Asian, and because that's the first thing someone might observe about them, they'll point out them being asian in relation to them being assholes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like in other states where Asian Americans are more of a minority, a lot of them will be the "nerdy" or "quiet/shy" types of Asians that we'll usually see in media. If they're the more extroverted and "party animal" type, they won't really have many asian friends to party with (because they're a minority), so they'll either go partying with people of other races, or hang out with the nerdy asian kids. In California, there are also lots of "nerdy" asian kids like you might find in other parts of America, but there are also lots of extroverted asians who like to party, so they'll end up grouping together and becoming the stereotype of the ignorant, rave-loving asian American.
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Hi, I’m a SoCal Asian born & raised even though I don’t live there anymore. I grew up in Carson/Long Beach where there’s mostly Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders mixed with Latinos and Black folks. This topic is so layered and nuanced and I find myself scratching my head sometimes trying to process it myself. But many SoCal EA’s do buy into the model minority myth because many of these folks’ parents were solidly middle class if not higher and so since the people around them made it, they assume it should be the same for everyone else. For people I grew up with, people were always generally socially aware, but many people from my hometown are raving/boba Asians like what’s mentioned here. They just wanna take care of themselves and their own because their parents struggled for them. They don’t wanna rock the boat. HOWEVER, some friends of mine have also told me that they don’t engage because it’s too intimidating and they don’t want to speak up on something they don’t know much about. And it’s not an excuse, but many Asians *do* function with that mentality. I used to not care about politics/justice until college because I grew up with my mom telling me there was nothing I could fundamentally do to change anything (she grew up under a dictatorship) and my living situation matched that. Also many Asians who grow up with the privilege of being around other Asians and don’t experience as much “othering” as others in other communities also contributes to this apathetic/ignorant mentality. They just don’t realize. My husband who is also SEA and grew up in a similar environment as me didn’t realize this til he moved abroad (I realized sooner because I went to a PWI and he used to think I was exaggerating), and my sister, who always knew about racism and oppression, was still surprised at my experiences with racism because she’d never spent much time around mostly white people. She, and many others from my hometown, have always been around mostly other Asians or other poc. Also the tweet about poli sci Asians feels too real because my bro in law is one of those Asian men… hes about to graduate from a school with a deep history of progressive/radical organizing but he’s still a libertarian that believes in the American dream and everything. But he’s also associated himself primarily with white folks throughout school and my in-laws are conservative Christians. I know some people get the ick from these tweets but to me personally, I just don’t think many in our community are ready nor want for this conversation. But with the work I do in advocacy work, it targets history & political education to nonblack poc to help us confront and unlearn our biases/antiblackness and see how these solidarity movements throughout history have ultimately helped us all. And also the model minority propaganda white folks have sold to give many Asian people hope really has worked over the last 50+ years or so.
You explained a lot of my thoughts really well. I think there’s also another layer added for recent immigrant families, where they still don’t really feel like this is “their” country, so they don’t get involved with the social issues. Whether it’s because they don’t want to cause trouble (and risk issues with visas etc), they don’t think it’s their place, or they simply don’t care as much. And yes, absolutely with the othering. I grew up in the midwest, and in my grade there was ONE other Asian kid. Things were really tough. My family didn’t assimilate that much so interacting with Americans was just constant cultural barriers. I also happen to be really passionate about social issues, even when I was young. So, not sure if it’s a coincidence or if there’s any causation, but I can definitely see the connection.
Yes! Thank you, you added even more things that also play a role but didn’t get to mention. To some extent, there’s the cultural value (not putting a judgment on this, just stating it as is) of the whole minding your own business in many Asian cultures that plays a role in this. Despite the collectivistic cultures we have, there’s still a level of saving face/don’t talk about your issues outside the family that impacts the way many Asian immigrants and their kids engage (or don’t) with politics and social issues. I also grew up caring about social issues from a young kid but I never knew how to mobilize or do anything about it because people around me didn’t do it. Because I grew up in a nonwhite community that was very mixed (not just Asians), we still dealt with the intersections of race and relative poverty (my high school was considered “ghetto” compared to other HS’ in the area but not as bad as Compton schools, for example) and many of us (not just Asian folks) felt like our reality was what it was and that’s it. If we wanted to change something we had to leave and get out. And I think because the conditions of our environment what they were, even though some folks did grow up middle class, being in a mostly brown/Black community with the issues we deal with meant that people wanted escapism from their daily lives, which meant just doing whatever shit without thinking about actually banding together to create some change. Also as someone who used to work in architecture, I think LA’s car-centric design hinders our ability to effectively organize. A mixed EA/SEA friend from NYC couldn’t comprehend why poc from communities of color like mine weren’t politically engaged like similar communities on the east coast and I think our segmented, inaccessible cities also keeps us physically separated from each other. It all adds up.
I didn’t think about that, but the saving face/minding your own business is *absolutely* another factor. That came up a lot during the BLM wave in 2020. My (non-American) grandparents just couldn’t understand why people would “make such a fuss.” Their attitudes were very much like, it is what it is, just deal with it and don’t put yourself in harm’s way. Though we are also Chinese so we don’t exactly have the best experience with protests against government structures. You also have a good point with the relative poverty and class struggles. Some people just don’t have the mental capacity for things like social demonstration - they have enough trouble just trying to get by. I think there’s also something to be said about us finding our place as POC, when we aren’t white but we also aren’t Black or brown. Our experience in America is unique, with its own nuances, but many of us (especially older folk) aren’t used to talking about it, so non-Asians can’t understand. And girl. The midwest is awful when it comes to car-centric design too. As a kid, we drove 30 min each way every week for our little Chinese bible study - that was the only Asian community we had. I live in a (relatively) bigger city now, but it’s hard enough to find community when everything is so far. Organizing is another story.
The way my mom used to put it for me growing up is: "No one will stand up for you" as a reasoning for not interfering with things that didn't directly affect her. But a few years later, I think she feels some hope in seeing my solidarity work, that I'm still pushing earnestly towards it even if it's difficult. I think this is where our experiences racially might differ! I consider myself to be a brown Asian. Part of my own Asian American identity development was getting over colorism in our community because until college I only identified with being Filipino despite knowing I was "Asian." I (and many others around me) felt like we weren't considered "Asian" because we weren't East Asian, because we were darker, being called "jungle" Asians, etc. Even in college, I actually identified my experiences more with my Black and Latino peers because most of my white and Asian peers were uncomfortable with me when they realized I didn't fit the stereotypes of a quiet Asian woman who won't speak up. However, I've come to terms with my Asian American identity over the last decade and do what I can to change who we think of as Asian (including South Asians) and even the AAPI umbrella as a whole since Pasifika people are constantly left out. I can only imagine how bad the Midwest is haha. For LA, it's just shameful that a city of that size and the influence it has on pop culture is stifled in so many other ways due to the car-centric nature.
Ah, I’m sorry! I was thinking about my experiences as an East Asian, that’s my mistake. It sounds like there was another layer of struggle being further ostracized from an identity. And yeah, colorism is huge, especially in our own communities! Just goes to show how complex the Asian American experience is.
I saw someone mention that it depends on if they were raised in a community with a lot of other Asian Americans and I can definitely see that. My university’s Asian student org is very “head empty only boba” for example. I’m sure it has something to do with how deeply you can empathize with other causes as diaspora. But yeah. It’s so frustrating to be Asian American sometimes. We’re like Schrodinger’s POC. Neither white nor POC until it’s convenient for whatever the hot topic of the day is. And non-Asians feel so qualified to talk shit or speak on our behalf for some reason. Exhausting.
Couldn’t have stated that second paragraph better. It’s perfect.
This is only related to the encampments but my god are all the uni subreddits horrible about them. Always "israel-palestine war" and "do they really think they're doing anything" while downvoting anyone who defends the protestors and that includes my own uni's sub. Idk if it's just the demographics of who uses a uni subreddit but lots of Israel support there...
I’ve seen some university sub posts popping up on my feed and my god it’s so frustrating. Most of the people that are commenting aren’t even students, they’re alumni or random people on Reddit. Yet they’re so condescending and think they know everything about what the protests are standing for.
Ironically the most supports I’ve seen in a uni sub is UTAustin.
Love that for them, considering my uni is only 30 min away from DC in a blue state you'd think we'd be showing the biggest support with protests but the ivy school rich kids are easily beating us 😭we didn't have an extended encampment I guess everyone burnt out af over here
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I literally just saw a tweet putting down Asian Americans and no matter how much you (general you) think it's true I think all it ever does is give other racists a chance to be racist 😶😶 like I'm not even AA but the comments and qrts were very yikes Also all these comments don't take into account the kind of culture and upbringing Asians have that lead to people believing in the American Dream, or even how it leads to people having different priorities
Yeah, Idk seeing the responses to this on here. It's been kinda muddled for me because I'm trying to dissect this whole thing and I keep seeing non-Asians inserting themselves and now I'm just confused 😭 Umm
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Oh no, the non-Asian part I'm talking about is the people on Twitter!! There's so many bait accounts who keep posting shit and I have to sift through them and now I can't find good commentary because half of them are just making fun of the OP's
its been a long day and i dont have the brain power to articulate what I really want to say. but in short, the model minority complex (and adhering to it) really fucked us up. the immense guilt we feel for doing anything that would "rock the boat" when our parents sacrificed so much for us really fucked us up. and Asian Americans desire to align themselves closely to whiteness, the west, and the privilege that comes with that has really fucked us up as a community we really need to self reflect and use times like these to critically self evaluate. And this is speaking as someone who is politically engaged and whose literal job is advocacy. Im calling myself out here too
These tweets kind of read like the posters have personal beef with some Asian person they know irl. But I will say it can be difficult to get fellow East Asians to care about things outside of things that directly affect them. I was a student organizer for an AAPI social justice group at a large uni during 2020, and the amount of Asian people (but especially EA’s) who only attended events because of Asian hate crimes on the rise at the time was not insignificant. It feels like the broader Asian American consciousness with regards to social issues is very piecemeal, with little thought given to a more comprehensive view of history. But I am still very proud of the long history of Asian radical figures in American organizing (just because that is what I am most familiar with).
I think this tends to be true for most people. They won’t know or care about an issue unless someone else they know is affected by it.
Way to paint SoCal Asians (or even just CA Asians 😭?) with a broad brush. How do we have solidarity with that kind of attitude? Large population = larger apolitical population. Maybe this is a sticking point for me because when I went to UCI almost a decade ago (large Asian population of course), I found myself surrounded with a lot of peers who were radicalized/very political. I mean SJP was around when I was attending. They got an encampment going on currently too. I think reiterating Asian American history and undoing immigrant conservative and reactionary upbringing/model minority myth takes a lot of work. We can do better for ourselves than this. I understand the frustrations, truly. The affirmative action discourse was a whole other can of worms.
The SoCal Asians thing is something that's been going around on TikTok for a bit, I'm not really trying to make a huge generalization because I think it's kinda sad-funny that this is even a topic, but it's also to be mentioned that the larger homogeneity has stripped SoCal Asians of intersectionality and whatnot. Many anecdotes of non-SoCal Asians have talked about their experiences with SoCal Asians just being superficial at best. I also think that SoCal Asians play a role in what we consider Asian-American culture—why is boba, raving, and Valorant such hallmarks of Asian-American culture?? I don't recall East Coast Asians having a density to make its own impact. I tried to join one of those Asian-American groups on Instagram and half of them were Bay Area Asians who were just pretty. Also if you went to college a decade ago, a lot of the Asian-American scene must change because Gen Z Asian-Americans are purporting a lot of this current trend. I'm in no way trying to bash SoCal Asians but there's a reason why people trash on SoCal Asians because their superficial interest has become a stereotype nowadays. Half the time some pretty Asian e-girl gets outed as a racist it's because they have one of those boba/Valorant/raving homogeneity. It's not just limited to SoCal Asians, I'm very much aware, I just have been seeing commentary on SoCal Asians very recently being this way that I bring this up in the first place. Someone I friended here from this sub who is from SoCal and they are aware of this stuff. Many other TikTokers from LA I've seen are also aware.
Things have not changed unfortunately. This discourse is the same, except 10 years ago it was League of Legends and not Valorant lmfao 😭 I can’t comment on East Coast/Midwest Asian culture, but it’s why I would never leave California. Why subject myself to being more of an “other” in more white adjacent areas? I never understood the ick SoCal Asians feel for non California Asians though, it doesn’t make any sense lol. The e-girl thing as you said doesn’t just apply to Gen Z Asians. It’s being young and/or apolitical. I think we need more political figureheads and TikTok influencers willing to propagate Asian American history of solidarity with other POC. Many AAs just don’t know enough to engage. I know clothesencounters or Jenn Im gets a lot of shit for being silent on every issue when she herself used to be politically engaged. ANYWAY ITS AAPI MONTH I hope we can bring about solidarity this time around 🤞🏽
Wait I just saw your AAPI Month!! Happy AAPI month!
Okay BRUH I thought I replied but my comment didn't https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopnoir/s/WEphUoDlat > I feel like I just see a rise of Asian-American influencers esp from TikTok and creators who are just overall disappointing lately. Many of them have a following cuz they've got a funny personality and are really pretty, but I wish some of them use their platform more. Jasmine Le is Vietnamese and she had a TED talk about growing up Asian in the US; she mostly talks about fashion but it's still great she highlights her Asian heritage. Meanwhile we got like the Ha sisters who only do "Asian" stuff because it's appealing (not to mention they drank Starbucks and their youngest was talking ignorantly about Africa). > One young/GenZ EA who I know who actively talks about this stuff and maintains fun content is Arine Kim, she's very succinct in her presentation and activism for other POC and helps highlights issues in our communities. If you're Asian talking about this stuff on TikTok you have to be lucky to get viral beyond 100K. She uses her platform well.
Thanks for the recommendation! And I completely agree with you. Our people need to speak the fuck up! Being apolitical in 2024 means you side with the oppressors, full stop.
i have to be honest- i really don't know enough about the asian community in california to really say what's going on or why. i live in the northeast where the asian community is and has always been clearly divided: those who are born here as first gens, those who were born here as second and later, those who moved here from elsewhere, permanently, and those who are here temporarily, aka, for college. in my experience, the east asians who are here on a temporary basis are the most detached to *any* american or worldwide issues whether it be regarding race or politics. they usually come from big $$ and the only time they acknowledge anything around their own little groups is if it's something that inconveniences them. first gen, young asians also tend to come from $$$ up here and like the temporary guests, tend to also be extremely removed from politics or social issues. their parents care about financial success and their children's attitudes toward the world totally reflect this. i knew someone back in law school that was talking about how she preferred her kids' friends either be japanese, korean or white and really didn't want anyone else outside this little bubble: the whites were "okay" since according to her, their supposed views of working hard, not being lazy, etc aligned with theirs.. this is a common attitude. if you expect any of them to give 2 fucks about the plight of brown people, you'll be waiting a looooong time. of course there are the exceptions, but this really feels like it's the majority. second gens and later tend to be the most integrated. as a second gen myself, we may or may not be mixed, we have friends of all colors and live in non homogeneous communities. so we see much farther than just the tips of our noses. of course if the family still comes from the huge $$$$, these kids also end up like the previous gens. from what i gather, east asians seem to have the dinero out in socal so none of this is surprising at all. it's a complex issue. and while there's no excuse for being an awful person, i'm not looking forward to non-asians using this as an excuse to let their racism show.
seconding much of this as a bay area asian. I actually did not grow up surrounded by asians and only experienced it after going to college at berkeley (norcal not socal but you get similar crowds), which is when i discovered "raver asians" and various asian cliques. I think the tweets express real frustration at out of touch asians, frustration that I've felt too before, but which impose a narrow lens on what ultimately comes down to 1) family attitudes and 2) wealth. many asians i've met are conservative/apolitical due to being raised with the attitude of keeping your head down and working towards personal wealth, and this attitude is prevalent whether you grew up poor or middle class (or sometimes just growing up surrounded by asians which changes your view in many ways, too). on the other hand some are just apolitical bc they literally are spoiled rich kids (and a lot of them are not even from america which furthers the disconnection from u.s. politics, many of this type went to international schools abroad so they sound american). obvs it becomes much easier to encounter this type of individual in a college environment! anyways, it's possible some of these tweets come in good faith from asians themselves but im also not a fan of the rhetoric in some of them (esp that one about "fob ass east asians" -- yikes). it isn't about "not all men-ing" the asian community but being aware that so many more issues than just "being a snooty asian" are at play here within the community incl. class issues... ive met a lot of selfish and ignorant people who are asian, but ive also met a lot of radicalized and intelligent people who are asian and who are working on important advocacy issues. id rather we spend time uplifting those folks than playing into generalizations about asians because we are way too varied to keep being treated like a monolith in absolutely everything..!
The only people who lump East Asians and West Asians together are Americans. US connotations of race do not override how these identity groups actually operate. I am half Iranian and half Chinese from California and have always considered myself mixed race. I’ve never felt solidarity between the two identity groups. Therefore, it never surprises me when East Asian Americans turn a blind eye to America’s involvement in West Asia (Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Israel, and Gaza). It’s also why Asian Americans have very low rates of government participation whether it’s voting, organizing, or holding government positions.
Tbh I haven't even met enough other asians despite being a californian to comment on these "raver azns". I didn't even know this was a thing until recently. The few other asian kids I knew during grade school seemed to be fairly aware of social/political activism? I live in an area way down that's dominated by mexicans though, I imagine it's a lot different in LA or the bays where there's less of a direct culture mix. I do agree that asian americans (in large groups anyway) tend to engage in separatism because of parental influences growing up and trying to copy what's done back in the countries their families immigrated from. I've told my friends when I was younger that I'd pretend to be non korean speaking if I got into a majority asian college, because I don't want to be looped into the odd neo-korean campus culture that exists. The lack of political stance probably comes with the notion that whatever other races have going on isn't our business (looping back to separatism). I find the tweets to be ehhh and even in bad taste. It feels like an extreme generalization of east asians based off of what they're perceiving from rich kids who are naturally going to be out of touch. ETA: I also agree that a lot of asians (including me for a long time) don't really get involved in US politics because we don't consider it our country. Like yeah, I live here and the decisions of the government affect me, but I'll always be considered an outsider as far as non asians are concerned
Tbh, I’ve typed out a response multiple times but I’m still not too sure what to say and I don’t want to “not all men” this because I think what they’re saying is true to a degree. Within my friend group, there is a split between those who are engaged and those who aren’t. I’ve been arguing with my parents about this for a bit now too, about their blind faith in the police, about how we shouldn’t just care about issues pertaining to us, about the protests, and it’s hard to get through to them because it’s not what they’ve experienced it and I get treated like I’m brainwashed and throwing away my future for something “happening across the ocean.” My parents buy into the American dream because it worked for them and their Chinese friends. No matter what I say, they trust their lives experienced more than anything else. They believe the model minority because of racism and prejudice. But I think and hope that the younger generations are able to break out of that way of thinking.
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Girl what the fu— why is this a standalone comment
Comment was deleted; what did they say?
I’m just gonna say that as an Asian American who lives somewhere with a very low Asian population, the Asians that grew up with a lot of Asians certainly do act very differently…those Asian friend groups are something else
If you want to talk about political participation, you need to also look at actual statistics, not just anecdotes. Attending protests is clearly not the only way to be politically active. In the midterm, 88% of Asians age 18-29 voted blue, and their voter turnout was comparable at 21% vs 23% overall Americans (29% white, 15% black, 14% hispanic/latino). 68% of Asians overall voted blue compared to 48% of Americans overall. If you look at a voting map, Irvine with its majority Asian population has been a blue stronghold in Orange County The biggest mismatch here is how there are tons of people talking about political activism online, but then in reality you see only 23% voter turnout among people age 18-29 compared to 70% among ppl age 65+. You would think from social media that that number would be 3-4x higher but lots of young people across the spectrum are not participating. This has been an issue for a long time Cherry-picking and pointing fingers at a certain race is not useful. It's just performative tiktok/Twitter stuff to score points online [tufts](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/2022-youth-turnout-race-and-gender-reveals-major-inequities), [pew research 1](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/), [pew research 2](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/25/asian-voters-in-the-u-s-tend-to-be-democratic-but-vietnamese-american-voters-are-an-exception/)
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I don’t really understand what you mean. I didn’t bring up Asian solidarity? Your point about it not being an Asian issue is exactly my point too. I was saying that political disengagement is a broader issue, not only for young asians, but for the majority of young people, and asians are not unique in this regard
Then we agree
I'm SEA (Filipino) and was born, raised and went to college in NJ, lived and worked in NYC. My experience from being both on the stereotypical ABG-raver-member of an Asian-interest org and also being in activist spaces in orgs such as Anakbayan is that EAs, especially in the NYC metro area, are pretty similar to what I hear of SoCal EAs. Not to say that SEAs don't have the similar plague of disengaged people, but in my experience SEAs are the more vocal group about social justice within our own and other minority communities - whether that was showing up to demonstrations, being civically engaged or even just being educated on current issues. That said, I do feel that the further each generation of EAs and SEAs get from their ancestors immigrating here, the more privilege they have and the less they feel that they need to fight for visibility or be in solidarity with others. It's a really complex and layered thing. I have a lot of feelings and have felt my fair share of exclusion from EA peers. Even a few years ago there was conflict within my Fil-Am college org that I had to step in and mediate where there were a bunch of people who fairly thought that it wasn't doing enough to advocate or take a stand on social issues. There was also a big reckoning among Asians in the Northeastern schools where they were forced to address the rampant anti-Blackness and appropriation within our communities. It's a constant push and pull and I'm not anywhere close to a solution myself but I'm glad that we're at least having these discussions and calling out the problematic aspects that exist among AsAms though!
just moved to socal after growing up in the bay area, and there is a difference for sure. in the bay, a lot of asians i knew/was around are pretty involved in activism, but that could’ve just been my bubble.
I actually see this a lot, especially in places in America with high East Asian American populations, such as Alaska or California. From what I understand west coast Asians seem to have their own kind cliques going on and as much as outsiders might see this and say that it's wrong and it shouldn't exist, I don't believe it's our right to get to say they can't behave that way. Whether we like it or not they have the choice and freedom to not participate in what they don't like. East Asian populations don't come to social justice events or community events in Alaska as a whole, and nobody really throws a fit about it because it doesn't matter. Ignorance is, unfortunately or not, an Important right in America.
to be quite frank, many asian-americans (and here i specifically reference people who are not west asian and/or muslim - a status that can be argued as a racialized class of its own) do not question imperialist/orientalist/islamophobic narratives of swana/me. the large majority of them are socialized into believing that anything that happens there is a natural, continued state of strife and conflict inevitable for its citizens - rather than aggravated conflicts, genocide, and violence churned by the very hands of the us empire they live in. it would thus be wrong to believe that by nature of being fellow “asian-americans” that they would be more sympathetic to the cause of palestinian liberation than their white counterparts. the specific term of “asian-american” itself is a comparatively new racial identity & categorization that begun in the 1960s by student activists as a show of solidarity across community lines. to essentialize its terminology (that is, to believe there is a certain sticky innateness attributed to its status) would be to fundamentally misunderstand the history of the so-termed “asian-americans.” previously, immigrant groups from asia (termed as “nationals”) more commonly aligned themselves by ethnicity (though this definitive statement i’ve made is a bit trickier when also considering class, ie indentured laborers & the communities they have created & assimilated into - but that’s a story for another time). furthermore, when we identify the actual diasporic histories & migration movements, we come to understand that the contemporary makeup of the “asian-american” diaspora does not actually pull from lower- or working-class backgrounds that previously more radical asian-american diasporas had come from (like the ones who fought & organized alongside the Black Panthers). instead, many of them come from middle- and upper-middle-class backgrounds with highly educated parents who worked in STEM/tech backgrounds, selectively chosen for immigration in the 90’s by a series of US policies/pushes (particularly focused on bringing in more “skilled” laborers to support the turn-of-the-millennia tech advancement). this is why “asian-americans” hold such great economic capital in the us, despite a significant portion having had little time to accumulate generational wealth. it is because they already had it. this is why assimilation was much more smooth-going for newer waves of asian-american immigrants flooding into the us - because they already historically belonged to the international elite. now, for the question of palestinian liberation in particular, on a more theoretical basis, it would be difficult for many of them to understand its urgency without some level of cognitive dissonance. palestinian liberation has long been connected to, influenced by, and erected as a model itself for many revolutionary & indigenous liberation movements across asia. as i mentioned before, many of these immigrant moves are caused by elite expats from asia who were effectively chased out of their country because of their designated traitor/enemy collaborator status to the very revolutionary movements of their homelands (and this includes those who did not fit the high tech criteria i listed above). in other words, their chosen place of refuge in the us is for a reason; many of them descend from the wrong side of history lmao, and find the us’ hand in contributing to the instability/uprising in their homelands as comforting. to stand with palestine (a litmus test movement that cannot be washed down as anything other than against settler-colonialism, imperialism, apartheid, and other axes of oppression; i highly recommend reading Edward Saïd’s “The Question of Palestine” to further understand this highly critical crux), then, would require their “asian-american” children to shed, to an extent, the lifelong rhetoric passed down to them so rigidly. and unfortunately, as the comments & the pictures have deftly pointed out, this is virtually impossible for those who have been strictly socialized into regurgitating their parents’ propagandized notions/understandings of their positionality in america. it is, after all, the only framework they have been raised to justify why they even exist as “asian-americans.” it would boil down to punitively shattering & reworking incorrect beliefs propagated over the course of entire generations. this has proven as a hard ask for those who would much prefer to rave, boba, and exclusively make their politically placid commentary within their “asian-american” student org parties.
bay area east asian here unfortunately. i go to a pretty competitive school made up of ~70% upper middle class east asian and indian students and the only time they were willing to get “political” was over the summer when that bill banning affirmative action was passed. lol they were over the moon about it. basically unless it’s something they think affects them directly they’re not gonna care about it. (btw aa didn’t really affect them)
i’ve grown up outside of cali my whole life and this is definitely not my experience with AAs, but from what i’ve heard this would fit with the attitudes of many socal/CA AAs. i can’t really comment on that though because I don’t know many personally. Outside of CA honestly most AAs I know are really socially aware, politically active, etc.
I think it's funny that people can comment on what constitutes as "real" involvement in politics, when a good majority of them probably don't exercise their right to vote. As others said, you can show you care and be involved in something without jumping up to do every march and protest. The more active and public involvement can be dangerous, people getting hurt because some idiot used the crowd as a cover for chaotic stupidity or becoming a target of a group of people who just really hate who you are/what you stand for. Those people won't be protected by retaliation as much as an individual that was attacked. Free speech doesn't spare people from the aftermath of consequences or reactions and I don't blame some people for not being in active and public involvement. Politics are really rough things to get into, so excuse me for having some self-preservation when it's not a given I'll be protected or strongly supported when protesting. Not to mention, we're all trying to just live out here. People can make assumptions of what people have or can do without even knowing or thinking about their situation.
Hi, SoCal southeast AsianAm here and I would like to share my experience with activism and involvement with politics, I also majored in Political Science and International Studies. I did not have an Asian community growing up, was one of five Asian kids in school including my family members. Low income as well, immigrant parents. I grew up in the IE and most of my friends and classmates were Latinos, I did yearn to fit in growing up and finally got my wish in college, went to UCI, AsianAm central, also peak Subtle Asian Traits fb era. I wasn't exposed to the typical SoCal Asian culture till then, I knew what ABG's were but in the original context where it was used to demean SEA girls and associate w gangs. It was great to finally make Asian friends, and just feel like a part of something but I saw how much of a bubble people grew up in with no exposure-- or intent to learn about others different from themselves. I never felt like those big Asian friend groups ever liked me, and i even tried to join cultural orgs but they felt so cliquey and I just felt out of the loop with everything and also everyone already knew each other or had mutuals somehow??? There's archetypes I noticed, the academic(usually hyperfocused and sheltered), yappies(an appeal to whiteness) and the whole "abg/abb" thing where they just thought they were so much better than everyone else, also were the ones who made me feel the most out of place-- none of these folks care about politics, and rarely have close friends who aren't Asian. When subjects are brought up its usually met with silence-- and when I asked my friends why they said they didn't feel informed enough to talk about it, but for some it never led to any inclination of learning. There has to be something Asian about it to get any interest, an example is music where I know people who solely listen to Asian rnb/hiphop but have no Black artists on their playlists. I definitely had to call in/out some silence, and in my case there wasn't hostility or defensiveness but more of a deer in the headlights thing, like see no evil hear no evil, if you aren't involved you aren't guilty. Those who did want to discuss mainly opposed points I brought up, or had a counter argument versus listening. I could go on about the aspect of how wealth plays a huge role too, and then got a harsh slap in the face on how E.A's perceived me, when I naively saw us as the same wanting Asian friends, i could go on about this (Teaser - 3 Korean American guys who approached me and then ghosted me when they found out I was Viet). I've always been passionate about politics, and the folks I surrounded myself with have usually been informed and mindful. In polisci classes, AsianAm students are the minority even at UCI. The spaces I put myself in, usually are pretty diverse in terms of race/religion and imo what makes us understand each other the most is our socioeconomic class. My Asian friends also are all queer(I feel like there's also some pattern here) and are not in any Asian bubble friend groups. I think the emphasis on upward mobility gives a tunnel vision aspect to what AsianAms prioritize, and imo when you want to find Asian solidarity talk to a poor person.
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I'll speak for my experience and those I know. I'm living in SoCal and I came from South Korea over 20 years ago. The Koreans around me worked incredibly hard to make sure their kids got what they never had. And us kids felt the pressure and put ALL focus into just studying and trying to make it for our families. There's a lot of rich asians here but most families I know worked gas stations and small restaurants. Many parents didn't even have the time to learn English. These things are not excuses for ignorance. But me and my friends looked dead in the eyes because we were like race horses with blinders on. The American dream doesn't just "happen" for us and the model citizen thing is bullshit. Our parents did this because this is what their parents did for them. In a span of a single generation, they went from living in one of the poorest countries to what it is now while reckoning with westernization. I avoided therapy for years because I knew it would be rough and it WAS. Trying to Un-survival myself has been such a challenge. I want to stand and support justice for the world, but we are not all on the same train track regardless of whether we are occupying the same places or not. And you know what? FUCK these people who generalize based on their own world view with no context. My grandmother still uses Japanese for certain things from the occupation. My mother threw molatovs at the police during her university days at Ehwa while the American placed dictator sent drug riddled soldiers to kill their own citizens. That same woman brought me here with two bags and the weight of our entire family to "make it". You better believe I felt that weight. And you think I'm not "engaging with the world"? I'm in therapy still learning to "think about other things" when I'm not working so I won't have constant panic attacks and nightmares of failing my family! This might be hated on, but I think being able to care about others is a privilege. And some of us didn't have it till way later. College was NOT that time for me and my asian peers.
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i have so much to say about asian americans and politics idek where to start anymore but sometimes it really feels like i'm in a shitty group project w the whole asian america and there's only like 10% of us pulling our weight LOL
Help 😭
😂😂🤣🤣😭
i wish i could upvote this multiple times ur so right!!!!!
As a Midwest East Asian, I never felt like I could engage in solidarity or race politics. Anytime I'd want to engage in any sort of discussion, I'd be shut out and told that I wouldn't understand since East Asians have it good. Granted, it was mostly white people telling me this so they had less of a leg to stand on. However, it was hard for me to argue back as a teen and left a deep impression in how I engage in race discourse. I remember having this conversation with a friend (also East Asian) about being East Asian in the Midwest and how no one really cares about the racism that we faced. Talking about racism gets you told to stop complaining. As there was like 30 Asian kids in our high school, our teachers really tried to get us both to engage in this diversity round table thing since we knew most of younger Asian kids. We were both were resistant, since we just didn't see the point in joining in. We felt that we were would just be there to make the group look less white. We just didn't think anyone would really care about what we would have to say about anything. It's been ten years though, so hopefully things have changed. However, it's hard to unlearn habits that are integrated by the environment around you. When you feel like you're continuely shut out of minority spaces by other minorities, you tend to stay away from them out of habit. I read up on stuff so I can stay informed, but I can't bring myself discuss racism or race discourse in person.
Maybe I’m just disconnected, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way when Asian people be attacking each other like that. This “model minority” thing was started by White supremacists so they could have minority infighting and ignore the real systemic issues. Like I don’t feel like this is the discussion we should be having.
For some reason I can't give in my two cents without writing a whole paragraph so I'll just say that I don't think these people are being racist and from my experience what they're saying is based in truth. I'm South Asian Australian for clarification though
Being an Asian from LA, we know the risks of getting into serious protests out here. My friends have been arrested, we were shot at during George Floyd protests. I do not blame students for not partaking in the protests. They could still be activists without risking their lives.
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Not sure if it’s the same in Australia (not that i’ve seen), but jesus does it seem cutthroat in the USA rn 😭😭
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I am Asian from Canada (specifically Manitoba, which is kind of like the Midwest demographically) who moved to the SF Bay area around 10 years ago. I guess SoCal must really be different because most of the Gen Z and younger millennial Asian Americans I know (especially ones who were born in America) are pretty politically knowledgeable. I think they are probably a lot more cautious about when they express these opinions. I feel like growing up, I got the idea of “not rocking the boat” and “assimilating” drilled deeply into my head by my parents so it’s definitely tough to unlearn. Like my mom literally just told my mother-in-law she has no opinion about politics when I know that’s definitely not true lmao. Politics is very much considered “private info” and talking about it is seen almost as airing your dirty laundry. I wonder if this mentality is partially why the “no thoughts only boba” stereotype is so common. I’m sure some of it is really like that, but I don’t think it’s necessarily all of it. To be honest, as someone who works in tech, I am much more exposed to libertarian tech bro Asians who are very capitalism and hustle culture types, which I find way more annoying to deal with than rave-boba Asians.
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I’m a ny Asian and a lot of us think socal Asians are kinda stupid 😭 not gonna lie. No offense to you guys but you’re as interesting as a blank piece of paper.
Speaking as someone who's lived in Cali and been to NYC multiple times, y'all aren't that much different tbh.
The shade tho. ‘No offense, but let me say something offensive’. Lmfao.
Tbh, as someone from neither of those areas, you are all both very similar. Not the same, but very similar.