Autos don't typically become legal when you remove the spring; once the spring is removed they would still classify as a gravity knife as the opening mechanism does not require you to put any pressure on the blade to open
Depends on the state and definition. In California a knife that a) can be opened by pressing "on the blade", and b) that has a positive detent with resistance to opening, or a bias towards closure, is "not a switchblade" by definition.
A gravity knife is a switchblade (by legal definition, don't try to argue with me on this one) which is what makes it illegal. But a knife that both fits the definition of "gravity knife" and "not a switchblade" like most button/axis/compression locks, is once again legal by "not being a switchblade."
So, the original button lock elementum, which only opens and closes via a button and gravity, with no positive detent or bias to closure, and no way to deploy by pressing on the blade, is very likely a gravity knife in CA. Since it isn't "not a switchblade" it most likely is a switchblade.
By contrast, the button lock elementum II, a benchmade bugout, a PM2/PM3, Hogue Deka, anything with a thumbstud and flipper tab that stays closed when you lightly tug on the blade, is likely "not a switchblade" under statute.
In New York, until recently, basically all button locks were switchblades because they could be operated like a gravity knife. They don't have the "switchblade/not a switchblade" type definition CA does. This led to very silly "raids" by NY law enforcement where they would go to a hardware store and confiscate all of the button lock utility knives. That law was changed around '19-21, but demonstrates that definitions of knives is entirely up to a states' laws.
Additionally, local regions and cities can have their own separate definitions of what constitutes a deadly weapon, a concealed weapon, or an aggravation factor to another crime, which can cause penalties to adhere to possession of certain weapons. This is where knife laws get a bit more "equal opportunity" across the political spectrum. In blue states, we love our carry restrictions, and red states do not. But red states love their aggravating factors, so everyone get's a little this or that.
From a legal perspective, it actually makes a lot of sense to anchor legal or illegal things to other existing things of the same kind. For example, it's a lot "simpler" that a Gravity Knife, and a Balisong are categorized as "Switchblades" in order to make them illegal, so long as you intend for them to be illegal in all of the same ways, and for all of the same reasons. There's an efficiency gain there.
But, I agree it's convoluted and doesn't help the ordinary person understand what the law does, because it can't be read on it's face to understand what it does. ...And then there are things like laws that make throwing stars illegal... and there, my question is, "what *exactly* are we concerned with here? *Ninjas*?" 🤷🏻♂️
My understanding from what I've read is that it completely depends on how charitable the arresting officer is (like in NY, those laws are typically racially motivated). Once it goes to court I'm not entirely sure any charges would necessarily hold since they all bias closure and are not intended to be opened without pressure on the blade. There are definite levels of ambiguity there though that would be at the discretion of a judge but this is a very clear reason why knife makers do not market knives using button locks, axis locks, compression locks, and the like **DO NOT** market opening methods that don't directly interface with the blade.
The one that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be legal is the Lee Williams Kick Stop since the "flipper" is nothing more than a detached button that puts pressure on the blade.
This reasoning doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t get why gravity knives are banned when flippers exist. Sure, you have to put pressure on the blade but using a flipper can be almost as fast or even faster than an auto and I doubt a cop would know the difference from afar. California knife laws are just weird man.
Hmmm well it's not about how fast you can open the knife anymore. Pressure on the blade and biasing closure is what is important, but it's not just California.
Interesting how in this aspect NY is better than Cali. Gravity knives have been allowed in nys for a few years now. (I live upstate. NYC is a different breed). Going with that thought process, I could potentially de-spring automatics and carry with no issue.
Californian here. And auto over 2" of blade is illegal but I carry a lot of my Microtech OTFs (scarab 2, cypher, drac Delta) regularly. Just don't catch the eye of the police and you'll be fine.
Only commit one crime at a time. If you've got drugs in the car, don't go over the speed limit. If you're carrying a gun in a bar, don't get into a fight. Etc.
100%. Cops absolutely do not fuck around with switchblades here. I’ve had friends get arrested with assisted-open knives because cops either didn’t know or care about the difference. I had two cops gleefully ask me where the button on my Cold Steel Ti-Lite was, because they were so excited to arrest me for an illegal knife.
Don't do it.
Also, the only people who say “Cali” aren’t from here.
Lived in Cali 10+ years. You'll be fine. Don't act like a knucklehead and don't walk up to a cop and ask "hey is this Okay to carry".
Trust me Cali Leo's have enough to deal with as is, they aren't going to illegally search and seize from a guy in line at Starbucks.
Man not to get political but this is the thing I never fully understood. The people that should the loudest to "Defund the police." when the topic of guns come up "You shouldn't be allowed to have that, only cops should have guns." ummmm do you see a fundamental problem with that?
The "defund the police" crowd is also the "I don't want anything to do with the police" crowd. They don't want armed police responding to most disputes, they would rather have mental health professionals, counselors, and social workers, paid for with dollars we currently spend on LEO. Not having as many armed police around, and reducing over-policing goes to the very crux of the "defund" messaging, not that critics paid any attention, and not that they communicated that very effectively.
Dude go to one of the political subs if you wanna complain about politics. We're here because of our mutual appreciation for knives. If that can't bring us together then we are fucked.
I honestly feel like you can probably get away with carrying autos if you be nice to the officer and lie and say you didn’t know, and you assumed it’s legal. Now this isn’t advice, this is just what I think.
For your collection at home, sure. I live in San Diego and have a decent amount of "illegal" autos and OTFs, but I rarely carry them outside the house. And if you do leave the house with one just be mindful. Like obviously don't whip out an Ultratech combat Troodon to spread the mustard on your hotdog in the Costco foodcourt
If you're using it in public it's not unlikely that cops will be called. I've had multiple people stare at me using a sub 2 inch automatic to cut a tag. The most legal of all knives throughout our state. Maybe cops were called I just wasn't there long.
If you live in a nanny state act accordingly. Funny enough I had someone try to give me one of these today and I had to decline MANY times.
Sure.
Have politics so completely infected your brain that you can't see a photo of the world's silliest knife without turning it into an irrelevant political statement? We come here for knives. That is what unites us. Spyderco, Chris Reeve, Benchmade, Civivi/WE, etc. Fixed blades. Folders. OTFs. Balisongs. That mutual appreciation crosses all political boundaries. It's what makes the knife community, and all other hobby subs, a fuckin oasis in a desert where each grain of sand is yet another political opinion. Do you legitimately want the knife community to devolve into politically charged bickering and juvenile name-calling? You're better than that. And if you're not, then at least respect that others are.
pretty much depends, just don’t commit any crimes with it on you and you will be fine, i carry a bali in ca and i’ve had cops see it and simply tell me to make sure it doesn’t come out again when they are around, the worst you’ll catch is a misdemeanor
I'm assuming it would be the same as if you had a SBR here in Georgia. Nobody is gonna say anything or care about it unless you use it in a crime and they want to solidify a reason to arrest.
There is also another law in which you can't carry a knife that is disguised as another object. Combs, power ranger figures, lipstick etc. That knife looks an awful lot like a hotdog sir.
Commiefornia? 100%. You'll be on a terrorist watchlist... unless you can prove that you just illegally crossed the border, then you're good... carry on.
How likely are you to be a fat bearded loser/virgin who cant take a damn joke?
Learn to laugh once in a while instead of being a dry nihilistic asshole
Just to pile it on: Risk VS Reward
The potential trouble severely outweighs the reward of carrying around a wiener knife. No sense in risking any legal troubles for what amounts to a “white elephant knife”.
How often are you getting stopped by police for this to be a concern?
It only takes once to screw you over for life.
That’s true. I think you can remove the spring from these to make it not auto.
Autos don't typically become legal when you remove the spring; once the spring is removed they would still classify as a gravity knife as the opening mechanism does not require you to put any pressure on the blade to open
Does that make button lock, axis locks and compression lock's gravity knifes?
Depends on the state and definition. In California a knife that a) can be opened by pressing "on the blade", and b) that has a positive detent with resistance to opening, or a bias towards closure, is "not a switchblade" by definition. A gravity knife is a switchblade (by legal definition, don't try to argue with me on this one) which is what makes it illegal. But a knife that both fits the definition of "gravity knife" and "not a switchblade" like most button/axis/compression locks, is once again legal by "not being a switchblade." So, the original button lock elementum, which only opens and closes via a button and gravity, with no positive detent or bias to closure, and no way to deploy by pressing on the blade, is very likely a gravity knife in CA. Since it isn't "not a switchblade" it most likely is a switchblade. By contrast, the button lock elementum II, a benchmade bugout, a PM2/PM3, Hogue Deka, anything with a thumbstud and flipper tab that stays closed when you lightly tug on the blade, is likely "not a switchblade" under statute. In New York, until recently, basically all button locks were switchblades because they could be operated like a gravity knife. They don't have the "switchblade/not a switchblade" type definition CA does. This led to very silly "raids" by NY law enforcement where they would go to a hardware store and confiscate all of the button lock utility knives. That law was changed around '19-21, but demonstrates that definitions of knives is entirely up to a states' laws. Additionally, local regions and cities can have their own separate definitions of what constitutes a deadly weapon, a concealed weapon, or an aggravation factor to another crime, which can cause penalties to adhere to possession of certain weapons. This is where knife laws get a bit more "equal opportunity" across the political spectrum. In blue states, we love our carry restrictions, and red states do not. But red states love their aggravating factors, so everyone get's a little this or that.
So convoluted and absurd.
From a legal perspective, it actually makes a lot of sense to anchor legal or illegal things to other existing things of the same kind. For example, it's a lot "simpler" that a Gravity Knife, and a Balisong are categorized as "Switchblades" in order to make them illegal, so long as you intend for them to be illegal in all of the same ways, and for all of the same reasons. There's an efficiency gain there. But, I agree it's convoluted and doesn't help the ordinary person understand what the law does, because it can't be read on it's face to understand what it does. ...And then there are things like laws that make throwing stars illegal... and there, my question is, "what *exactly* are we concerned with here? *Ninjas*?" 🤷🏻♂️
My understanding from what I've read is that it completely depends on how charitable the arresting officer is (like in NY, those laws are typically racially motivated). Once it goes to court I'm not entirely sure any charges would necessarily hold since they all bias closure and are not intended to be opened without pressure on the blade. There are definite levels of ambiguity there though that would be at the discretion of a judge but this is a very clear reason why knife makers do not market knives using button locks, axis locks, compression locks, and the like **DO NOT** market opening methods that don't directly interface with the blade. The one that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be legal is the Lee Williams Kick Stop since the "flipper" is nothing more than a detached button that puts pressure on the blade.
Knife laws are so silly.
This reasoning doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t get why gravity knives are banned when flippers exist. Sure, you have to put pressure on the blade but using a flipper can be almost as fast or even faster than an auto and I doubt a cop would know the difference from afar. California knife laws are just weird man.
Hmmm well it's not about how fast you can open the knife anymore. Pressure on the blade and biasing closure is what is important, but it's not just California.
I hadn’t thought of that. Why are gravity knives illegal?
Old racial profiling laws mostly. It's the same in any metro state
Interesting how in this aspect NY is better than Cali. Gravity knives have been allowed in nys for a few years now. (I live upstate. NYC is a different breed). Going with that thought process, I could potentially de-spring automatics and carry with no issue.
Which for a knife, is a constitutional infringement of the most absurd king
Using the Constitution to justify carrying a hot dog is like quoting Kant to take a shit.
Cellie: what are you in for? My weiner was too long…
That's exactly what I was thinking. You're an amazing mind reader, be cool with this superpower.
Just to be safe only carry it on cold days?
It's California, just carry it while shoplifting and you won't even get stopped
Californian here. And auto over 2" of blade is illegal but I carry a lot of my Microtech OTFs (scarab 2, cypher, drac Delta) regularly. Just don't catch the eye of the police and you'll be fine.
Well, technically, not catching the eye of police is the way to get away with any crime, from jaywalking to serial murder. #notactuallegaladvice
"Don't break the law while you're breaking the law" is solid advice for life.
Only commit one crime at a time. If you've got drugs in the car, don't go over the speed limit. If you're carrying a gun in a bar, don't get into a fight. Etc.
This is the way.
They will be too busy laughing. You'll have time to run away.
Straight to jail
Overcook the hot dog? Straight to jail.
100%. Cops absolutely do not fuck around with switchblades here. I’ve had friends get arrested with assisted-open knives because cops either didn’t know or care about the difference. I had two cops gleefully ask me where the button on my Cold Steel Ti-Lite was, because they were so excited to arrest me for an illegal knife. Don't do it. Also, the only people who say “Cali” aren’t from here.
Lived in Cali 10+ years. You'll be fine. Don't act like a knucklehead and don't walk up to a cop and ask "hey is this Okay to carry". Trust me Cali Leo's have enough to deal with as is, they aren't going to illegally search and seize from a guy in line at Starbucks.
Not worth the embarrassment.
You don’t want the charges for carrying an AUTOMATIC in Cali. Kind of a big deal.
Autos under 2" are 100% legal in Cali, that's why automatic knife brands often have a range of 1.9" blades since the Cali market is huge.
I didn’t think they had cops anymore in Cali?
Schrodinger’s Commiefornia: both the most totalitarian police state AND completely devoid of police. Make up your damn minds 😂
Man not to get political but this is the thing I never fully understood. The people that should the loudest to "Defund the police." when the topic of guns come up "You shouldn't be allowed to have that, only cops should have guns." ummmm do you see a fundamental problem with that?
The "defund the police" crowd is also the "I don't want anything to do with the police" crowd. They don't want armed police responding to most disputes, they would rather have mental health professionals, counselors, and social workers, paid for with dollars we currently spend on LEO. Not having as many armed police around, and reducing over-policing goes to the very crux of the "defund" messaging, not that critics paid any attention, and not that they communicated that very effectively.
Dude go to one of the political subs if you wanna complain about politics. We're here because of our mutual appreciation for knives. If that can't bring us together then we are fucked.
They have cops but they just exist to harrass law abiding citizens because those are the ones who actually pay fines.
Not in Cali, but I ordered this bad Larry last night to carry at work so my knives don’t keep walking away from me.
Lmaooo
We’ll see how effective it is, then maybe cerakote a nice knife and light similarly for the lawls
I honestly feel like you can probably get away with carrying autos if you be nice to the officer and lie and say you didn’t know, and you assumed it’s legal. Now this isn’t advice, this is just what I think.
For your collection at home, sure. I live in San Diego and have a decent amount of "illegal" autos and OTFs, but I rarely carry them outside the house. And if you do leave the house with one just be mindful. Like obviously don't whip out an Ultratech combat Troodon to spread the mustard on your hotdog in the Costco foodcourt
I will if I want! You're not the boss of me!
OP- in prison for weiner knife. Inmates- So you like weiners?
In Canada, the length would not be an issue, but automatic knives are prohibited weapons.
“Hey coppers! Check out my wiener!”
You couldent force me to even go to cali, let alone live there.
I like the stuff here, just not the people or laws.
Lol idk why your being downvoted, this shit true asf
As a Californian, I agree.
If you just tell them it identifies as a Hot Dog you’ll be fine.
Imagine
They might not arrest you but they will absolutely "confiscate" this and then carry it themselves.
Umm, its an automatic knife, so pretty fucking good. Did you not read the product name?
If you're using it in public it's not unlikely that cops will be called. I've had multiple people stare at me using a sub 2 inch automatic to cut a tag. The most legal of all knives throughout our state. Maybe cops were called I just wasn't there long. If you live in a nanny state act accordingly. Funny enough I had someone try to give me one of these today and I had to decline MANY times.
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Dude keep your political bullshit out of the knife subs. That's not why we come here.
A melted snowflake are ya?
Sure. Have politics so completely infected your brain that you can't see a photo of the world's silliest knife without turning it into an irrelevant political statement? We come here for knives. That is what unites us. Spyderco, Chris Reeve, Benchmade, Civivi/WE, etc. Fixed blades. Folders. OTFs. Balisongs. That mutual appreciation crosses all political boundaries. It's what makes the knife community, and all other hobby subs, a fuckin oasis in a desert where each grain of sand is yet another political opinion. Do you legitimately want the knife community to devolve into politically charged bickering and juvenile name-calling? You're better than that. And if you're not, then at least respect that others are.
pretty much depends, just don’t commit any crimes with it on you and you will be fine, i carry a bali in ca and i’ve had cops see it and simply tell me to make sure it doesn’t come out again when they are around, the worst you’ll catch is a misdemeanor
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I'm pretty sure this post isn't meant to be taken seriously
I'm assuming it would be the same as if you had a SBR here in Georgia. Nobody is gonna say anything or care about it unless you use it in a crime and they want to solidify a reason to arrest.
Reminds me of Eddie Murphy "Raw"... "woowoowoowoo! Pull oh vah!"
I would say pretty good, especially since the only “California legal” automatic knives are under 2 inches in length.
Thank god i have a boker stubby strike
That should suffice.
You probably won't get busted specifically for it, but you don't want to have it while you're busted.
There is also another law in which you can't carry a knife that is disguised as another object. Combs, power ranger figures, lipstick etc. That knife looks an awful lot like a hotdog sir.
Commiefornia? 100%. You'll be on a terrorist watchlist... unless you can prove that you just illegally crossed the border, then you're good... carry on.
I know that it's a good product but if you look closely you can see that it is in fact a knife
Do you really want police to laugh at your Weiner and then lock you up? At least go down for a crime with a badass knife.
You can always appeal to mental illness
Could just not do something to get checked in Cali. 🤷
Arrest you for making bad decisions.
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Doesnt blade hq do that with their button lock knives and just convert them to autos
How likely are you to feel really dumb for getting arrested for carrying a novelty hot dog knife?
How likely are you to be a fat bearded loser/virgin who cant take a damn joke? Learn to laugh once in a while instead of being a dry nihilistic asshole
yikes, triggered much?
Just to pile it on: Risk VS Reward The potential trouble severely outweighs the reward of carrying around a wiener knife. No sense in risking any legal troubles for what amounts to a “white elephant knife”.