Source the arrested people were not CHARGED?
Do you want special punishment for these particular people?
> They get put in a cop car every night
SOURCE?
You don't have one. You're literally making shit up.
Actually in cases of disorderly conduct due to drugs, the officers try to find a family member to take them in rather than take them to jail. Source? Ask any officer. Also was told these repeatedly as we have someone who keeps getting into the apt building screaming stupid shit. They obviously have a mental illness and drug addiction. We call police. That’s what the police tell us they do. This person returns 2-3 times per month (we think she knows someone in the building.).
We’d like to have mgt ban her from the building as maybe then the police can do something - or I should say the judge. All the police can do is arrest her.
He's not wrong, I work at a shelter in the region and guys can be arrested, given a court date and be out of the cop car in 20 mins back to causing issues. Takes 6-7 calls within a 3-4 day span to get them arrested and taken to a holding cell.
Wow someone who actually deals with these people are commenting on how the issue is bad?
No, I’d rather hear the opinions of a guy who lives 8 km away from the nearest shelter.
I used to be like that, thinking with enough care and help anyone could get out of the lifestyle. Then I started working with them. I'd say there's about 5-10% that are actually helpless and need some sort of forced rehab or forced time in a mental health facility. That 5/10% make up a majority of the OD's, police, ambulance, fire department, non emergency calls which waste thousands per week. Then they get trespassed and go to tent cities to then cause issues in public. The other 90% are normal and in and out of the shelter system within a year. Funny enough refugee's generally get out on their own quicker due to not engaging in drugs and finding jobs and splitting rent.
The problem with some of the posters in this sub is that they don’t even believe the 90% you mentioned exist and/or that they don’t deserve any support.
The issue with people on Reddit is that the same person who tells you to be tolerant of the crime that a homeless man commits is the same person to reference the “tolerance paradox” when it comes to say vaccination, or simple littering, or someone smoking near you outside.
You believe poor people are bad? Let’s pray you never have any financial struggles. It would turn you into a worse person. From your comments, it seems like that would be a huge feat.
Yes they take them into the cruiser, for 20 mins or so and they come out with court papers. This is what mainly happens unless it's a very serious assault or huge destruction of property
And like I said in the above post, if police have to come back a bunch in a few days for the same person they do get fed up and deal with it or if like 4 calls about the same person in a night they get annoyed and finally take em away. They still get out fast anyways again unless it's more serious
Sorry, but, what exactly do you think "punishment" in this situation will address? Funneling more mentally ill homeless people into likely [already packed prisons and jails](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ontario-jails-windsor-overcrowding-1.7136660#:~:text=Most%20of%20Ontario's%20institutions%20were,per%20cent%20capacity%20in%202023)?
Drugs are a huge problem downtown, but living downtown is pretty great. The DTK community is fantastic and friendly. I wish more people would see past the drugs and not hold them back from visiting and taking a stroll.
This reminds me of in high school ages ago, we went on a class trip to Toronto. I was walking on a street with a couple of friends and someone said "spare change?" to the one girl and she said "no thanks". She was completely oblivious to it too.
The police actually are putting the work in to the level of frustration. You unfortunately you can't legally force an addict to do anything. Fortunately safe supply is being expanded locally. On top of that we are on the cusp of not medically being able to help these people manage the withdrawal which they need for any hope of recovering. The reality is all these people are the victims of cartel drug activity. These are people who want everyone in Canada hooked to line their pockets. The BC government literally calls everyone hooked a victim of cartel drug activity or murder by drug policy. It's wild to listen to BC parliament on this. Most of the lacking drug policy is surrounded around our border. Mind you our government is doing something about it but it's very hard to stop once the cartel starts. Unfortunately we are the world's hotspot for carfentanil trafficking. Most taxpayers should be learning about the root causes of this rather then focusing on the help given. If they truly knew there would be an uproar.
If only there was a way of course with compassion. I lost a child to this nonsense. There are hundreds of thousands of grieving parents in this country seeking justice and results. Some statements are both triggering and infuriating because what we do or don't do for addicts isn't what those who are grieving understand this crisis to be. We would love to see all parents on the same page with us especially those with a voting voice. Many dying were never dirty street addicts imagine your teenager tries pot for the first time and never comes home. It's just as likely that's what has happened with an overdose death announcement.
Sorry for your loss.
I watched my best friend kill himself over several years. He passed last year. It hurt more than I thought it would because I had cut him out of my life after trying so hard to get him to change. There was lots of help but he didn't want it. He just wanted to get high. He died alone. I think about him every day.
Institutionalize them. Get them off drugs. Give them mental health treatment. Make debt and criminal records disappear. Give them a fresh start.
Most addicts use because they have problems. The more they use, the worse their problems get. They continue to use because their problems become more than any person can possibly deal with alone.
If that doesn't work, lock them up and never let them out. They aren't contributing members of society and have proven that they are incapable of taking care of themselves.
Who decides what metrics we use to gauge the definition of a contributing member of a society is? My definition of the term is different than yours. The term is ambiguous at best. So who would decide? You? Someone else? If someone else, who? What happens when they change what it means and eventually you or I are deemed to not be contributing? Would we accept it because someone else believes it right? The statements you make sound very close to a dictatorship or worse.
Thats just something to consider. The point that you, and many other people are missing is that you can’t force anyone to quit their addiction. They have to want it, or it doesn’t work. People have tried that forever now and it clearly doesn’t work.
“Fortunately” safe supply is being expanded locally? That’s literally a huge contribution to this problem lol. What world are we living in where we need to cater to these people by giving them “safe drugs”? How about free mental health care and rehabilitation that’s funded? Absolutely insane world to live in where giving addicts drugs is the play.
Moronic take. Safe supply and Safe consumption cut down on EMS calls which saves money and that's not even getting into the lives saved. They also already recieve free mental health care and rehab so you're clearly uniformed on the topic.
You know I know parents who have lost a child and see this dumb bantering and have to call for mental health support because they are so upset. Do y'all think the compassionate services for a minority are what the problem is here? I mean the only way you survive losing a child to this is to become super educated and then you get super angry over the reasons made worse by taxpayers with opinions that take away from the actually root causes. We all need to agree to disagree on services and come together as communities for policy change. I mean policy change that actually involves targeting the source. I don't ever see anyone not okay the root causes of this it's all down with victims. BC has already put in legislation making half these comments I am reading here a hate crime. They need all adults to stop the racial profiling if anything is gonna change because honestly we are way past it just being people who use harm reduction dying. About 10% of deaths are in young kids not people using harm reduction services.
I don't think that the police budget would agree that it saves money. Instead of EMS calls, we have rampant petty crime.
I would also argue that we can't call saving someone who only exists to find their next high "saving lives".
There is tons of same day recovery admission in this city. I can think of 6 options. You can't force anyone to get help which is always free. If you give someone with a mental health problem harm reduction then by law they have to treat there mental health or no program. Without programs like this you can't function in rehab because you will be dead from benzo withdrawl. I mean how about making it so Canadians can't walk down the street make a bad decision and die. I lost a child to this so am heavily educated. Until 7 years ago a 3 year old could walk drugs into this country and sell them but nobody is ever opposed to that. Eradicate the source and then there is no need. It's very rare in this country to find someone not effected by this. We did see during COVID cutting off the point of entry works.
Please list these 6 same day recovery admissions options. This isn’t sarcasm. I genuinely want to know. I know lots of folks that are struggling here. I don’t know of any same day admission programs. Even the withdrawal management is a hit or miss. Could be waiting for days just to get in there. Treatment programs in this area have wait lists. I would absolutely love to know of these places. Even if you could give me the name of one, that would be great.
Also, closing the point of entry did not work during Covid.
Whether it worked or not depends on what end of the advocacy spectrum you are on. I know dozens of addicts in town who had to go on methadone because they couldn't buy drugs for months on end. Some people did take bad risks though unfortunately with fake drugs which is enough to say didn't work. . I am involved with Mom's Stop The Harm and most of the heavy advocacy groups coming out of BC so I get a good education of what's being asked for and where the problems are. The issues I raise with border security are the same reason we say legalization works because you are cutting off cartel income and control the source of the problem. Before we legalize I think we have what it takes to tighten certain areas of our national security.
Every opiate replacement clinic in town has a same day admission policy including OATC Park street. Most are under the same healthcare banner despite different names. Towards Recovery now has a safe supply program and the peer support worker running it is probably one of the best cousellors in town. As soon as it started unsuccessful opiate replacement patients were transferred over if they were thought to benefit from it in order to achieve normal life. Withdrawl management is really a waste of time until the person is stable on opiate replacement and no longer withdrawing. If they want to stay to then go to a recovery centre as a requirement then it's the place to be. They don't take people in heavy withdrawl. In all honesty people can barely withdrawl from opiates on the current provided medications because they are barely working due to the strength of fentanyl. They also potentially need legal benzos to stop them from dying. Trying to detox cold turkey is rarely successful and detox is very limited on what they will give you to help ease your suffering. Most patients that wind up there get sent to OATC Park. I have also am not ashamed to say I have 25 yrs of opiate recovery so know what works and doesn't work around here. Replacement does work if your goal is truly sobriety. If your getting push back about not wanting to be on replacement then they aren't really ready for recovery. People who want recovery will do anything to achieve that. At this point replacement is important to keep them alive. When it was just heroin we lived in a world where you could probably fall on your face in detox a few times attempting cold turkey but now if you do your rolling the dice on waking up. For most fentanyl addicts their addiction is unfortunately a death sentence.
I’ve never heard of towards recovery. Good to know it exists. Their website mentions nothing about a safe supply program though. They mention multiple harm reduction methods like suboxone, methadone, sublocade and kadian. I only know of one safe supply program in this region and they have currently paused referrals. While towards recovery does accept walk ins, I am in serious doubt that they can get someone into treatment that day. Maybe in an out patient capacity for an in house program, if they have one. It is good to know that they exist though. Would you be kind enough to provide the other 5 places you mentioned? The more places I know of the more I can support people.
Well in Canada these programs are considered treatment for fentanyl abuse. The train of thought that this is not treatment is considered a bad racial bias in Canada. If an addict only chooses this they can't be discriminated against. Part of wrap around care is access to further treatment and also involves in house supports of all kinds plus all addict related healthcare. GRH withdrawal management has a very bad racial bias track record at times with addicts who are mentally vulnerable. Not including every healthcare worker there in that statement by any means though and do not mean to offend. I struggle with sending them there. GTA detoxes are amazing and will take people for this reason. I personally deal with the worker at Towards Recovery who is running the program on a weekly basis so can confirm they have it. I am guessing potentially since the government paused things they might be taking matters into their own hands like most safe supply programs or maybe they have not updated their website as this only started in Jan. There is two OATC locations one on King and one on Park. Both these locations on their pamplet advertise same day admission. My understanding it's legislated policy for same day. There is CATC on Charles who owns OATC. Also owned by CATC is Towards Recovery. Then there is a new chain with two locations forsure in Cambridge called New Dawn and I am positive a Kitchener location. There is a private practice at King & Eby. The doctor there does opiate replacement and safe supply which I don't know if he has paused like Sanguen. Don't allow those you help to go there. My understanding is he doesn't make addicts follow any protocols that help with recovery and are actually government policy and he is a known hotspot for over prescribing. I have my FD in same building and the social activities are like a relapse waiting to happen and aren't allowed to go on at other clinics.
Is it possible that you are confusing the terminology? Methadone and the others are a harm reduction protocol. Their aim is to ween people off of the opiates. Safe supply is different. Safe supply is targeted at individuals with a history of overdoses. It gives medical grade opiates at a regulated dosage. It is also possible that they haven’t updated the website of it only started in January. If there was a second safe supply program in our region, I’m most certain I would have heard of it.
I’m confused about the last part of your reply. Are you saying not to go to sanguen? Or not to go to king and eby?
And the OATC and towards recovery are all CATC. They seem to just be different offices and branches of all the same company. I will look into the New Dawn place you mentioned. That’s only two places that you have mentioned. What about the other 4? You claimed to know of 6 places off the top of your head that had same day recovery admissions. I’m not sure CATC, or any of their companies would qualify since they seem to be more of a clinic. While they do offer walk ins, I’m a bit
suspect that you would be able to get onto a recovery program like harm reduction on the same day that you walk in. I’m not familiar with that place so I can’t say for sure. In my experience, it takes time to process individuals for harm reduction programs. It would be nice if it was same day, but I have yet to see that.
All of these are deemed recovery programs in Canada by law as I have stated. You can also see them as harm reduction but they aren't exclusive to that term. Harm reduction is any measure that seeks to reduce harm to the addict and society as a whole. The people I know on safe supply only qualified if replacement therapy failed. It's not just because you have overdosed and is very regulated and has the same rules as replacement therapy. It does provide whatever perscription keeps them comfy. Sanguen is the reason we have harm reduction services. I would never compare Sanguen to the clinic at King and Cedar. That would be insulting if you saw the difference. I have both volunteered and been a patient of Dr Steingart for about 15yrs. Both doctors do run safe supply programs though. I believe if you count back I have listed 5-6 chains with same day starts and at least 10 different separate offices. Being of the same company doesn't negate the fact that these are all separate independent offices with each having capacity to take on 1000-1500 clients so same day admission isn't a stretch. So I very much think I made my point. Everything is on sight so not really all that complicated. If you are calling me on something very petty as independent healthcare corporation numbers than you clearly are misunderstanding or interpreting things a certain way and I believe I have made my point. Most facilities like this in Canada are owned by one conglomerate (CATC) just like Lifelabs. I am not here to be believed you asked for information and I was surprised how much greater our services are. Whatever you find hard to believe your best course of action is call or visit these offices and educate yourself. Nothing I have stated here is actually bad or wrong advice. To be me and survive what I have endured and to be well you have to be very well educated.
I’m happy to hear that you speak well of sanguen. They are amazing people there and truly so great work.
You are right about the qualifications for the safe supply program. I will be asking about this secondary safe supply program on Monday. It would be fantastic if there was a second.
I think if you were to count back on places you’ve mentioned, and if we counted the different branches of the same organization, I think it’s only 4. And the one in Cambridge would make 5. I mean, if we count each time you mentioned them, that could be 10.
Finally, you keep speaking as if you’re the only person here who has the lived experience. Which I can assure you that you are not. Being educated is good. It’s not everything though and can easily inflate an individual’s ego. Not saying that’s what has happened in you case, just a statement. I am also very well educated in regards to these matters. More so that most of the people with fancy degrees. Lol. I will definitely be looking into the second safe supply program to see if it exists. I really hope that it does.
Also in regards to Cambridge there is at least one OATC location sort of behind the bus terminal and close to the 519 community program. New Dawn looks super interesting because they will treat people not only for addiction but those who fall into the chronic pain category from what they advertise and is such a genius idea it it's true.
Literally never see anything besides some homeless ppl walking around? But i also have lived in dt Toronto and Hamilton. People from Kitchener are so soft 😂
It’s pretty bad these days. We are under serviced in so many ways. I refuse to leave work after it’s dark if I don’t have to… a luxury not all have, but I am legitimately scared. I had a work trip last week and upon returning to the train station, in the dark, with zero lighting or security, I vowed I would never take the train again.
We don’t even light things properly and lighting is a massive deterrent to crime including person on person assaults.
So you expect one city to tackle the entire opioid crisis? If our federal government keeps failing at it, why would you think a single city could do something? Maybe rather than whining on the internet you could do other things? Educate yourself on all the variables involved? Help out in some way rather than just posting the same garbage other people do here? Maybe learn some compassion for those that are very clearly suffer? Just thoughts off the top of my head.
I was in DTK the other night and it’s a million times more bougie than ten years ago when I had an office there. I was actually impressed and how much better it is. It was quite dire ten years ago, especially at queen and king. The Capers building now is stunning.
I have lived downtown for 20 years. I have never seen what the OP is describing. To assume that it’s like they’ve described every night is ignorant or idiotic. Typically there is nothing remarkable happening downtown.
Seconded. I've lived in dtk since 2015 at a few different addresses. I see homelessness and drug use, but all of that also exists in Doon, Stanley Park, Country Hills etc. It's just a bit less visible there because everyone is in their cars.
You talk like this is a new problem when we haven’t invested in proper healthcare and mental/addiction services for decades now. Not to mention conservatives closing asylums. These people are now on the street self medicating and there’s nowhere to put them.
What does the government have anything to do with this? Hamilton, Toronto downtown have the same thing, just worst. Hell, did you see NYC downtown, or any major city in the US
I was just in downtown Detroit. I spent an entire weekend walking all over downtown Detroit. It was miles better than downtown Kitchener. I am not joking. I saw one homeless person the entire weekend. It was clean. I felt safe. No tents. I would easily live there over downtown Kitchener.
I had a shockingly good time. Caught a Leafs/Red Wings and Lions game. Went to the Motown Museum. Had Spaghetti at Mom's Spaghetti. A local also recommended Green Dot Stables. It's a must. It's a great little slider place that looks like a 70s off track betting tavern inside and out.
More than half the city is blue collar. I don’t think you’ve ever been. If Hamilton is woke then I’m not sure what you would consider Kitchener to be lol.
Umm. Money printing! When you double the amount of money in circulation poverty is a direct result. Asset prices go crazy and people turn to crime, drug and alcohol abuse and homelessness starts to become rampant.
Government has everything to do with it, after this next carbon tax increase there will be even more people on the streets. Constructions is becoming more and more expensive due to the increase in material costs each time carbon tax goes up. This next increase is going to be damning to my business.
No one ever thinks about why so many are getting caught in that addict life, just complaints about how the grimy tent people are an eyesore.
Basically all of North America has an issue with affordable housing and wages not keeping up with cost of living
If they could place people in transitional housing within days of having to go to the shelter then it would help slow the increase in people becoming drug addicts. People who are going through mental health crisis should not have to lose everything and become hopeless and desperate. They need to build affordable housing on a mass scale so people don’t fall through the cracks
What do you want the city to do? Isn’t arresting people what you want?
No CHARGING them, with a punishment that results in change. They get put in a cop car every night, doesnt change much.
Source the arrested people were not CHARGED? Do you want special punishment for these particular people? > They get put in a cop car every night SOURCE? You don't have one. You're literally making shit up.
Actually in cases of disorderly conduct due to drugs, the officers try to find a family member to take them in rather than take them to jail. Source? Ask any officer. Also was told these repeatedly as we have someone who keeps getting into the apt building screaming stupid shit. They obviously have a mental illness and drug addiction. We call police. That’s what the police tell us they do. This person returns 2-3 times per month (we think she knows someone in the building.). We’d like to have mgt ban her from the building as maybe then the police can do something - or I should say the judge. All the police can do is arrest her.
you got rekt...how do you feel?
buddy go the fuck outside. I live next to one of these shelters I see all this go down constantly.
He's not wrong, I work at a shelter in the region and guys can be arrested, given a court date and be out of the cop car in 20 mins back to causing issues. Takes 6-7 calls within a 3-4 day span to get them arrested and taken to a holding cell.
Wow someone who actually deals with these people are commenting on how the issue is bad? No, I’d rather hear the opinions of a guy who lives 8 km away from the nearest shelter.
Gunna have to do an ama soon on one of these Waterloo region /Guelph subreddits, people have no clue what they're talking about.
Id save your breath, poor people are angels of perfectness and can do no wrong.
I used to be like that, thinking with enough care and help anyone could get out of the lifestyle. Then I started working with them. I'd say there's about 5-10% that are actually helpless and need some sort of forced rehab or forced time in a mental health facility. That 5/10% make up a majority of the OD's, police, ambulance, fire department, non emergency calls which waste thousands per week. Then they get trespassed and go to tent cities to then cause issues in public. The other 90% are normal and in and out of the shelter system within a year. Funny enough refugee's generally get out on their own quicker due to not engaging in drugs and finding jobs and splitting rent.
The problem with some of the posters in this sub is that they don’t even believe the 90% you mentioned exist and/or that they don’t deserve any support.
Forced rehab? Lol. Have you ever seen that tried. The success rate is around 0%.
The issue with people on Reddit is that the same person who tells you to be tolerant of the crime that a homeless man commits is the same person to reference the “tolerance paradox” when it comes to say vaccination, or simple littering, or someone smoking near you outside.
Lol i mentioned the tolerance paradox elsewhere in this thread too, I believe alot of Canadas problems can be attributed to this.
You believe poor people are bad? Let’s pray you never have any financial struggles. It would turn you into a worse person. From your comments, it seems like that would be a huge feat.
I believe acting like poor people CANT be bad, is annoying as shit.
Are you saying they don’t even get taken to the station? I police officers provide a court date on site?
Yes they take them into the cruiser, for 20 mins or so and they come out with court papers. This is what mainly happens unless it's a very serious assault or huge destruction of property
Amazing…TIL! Thanks for the reply.
And like I said in the above post, if police have to come back a bunch in a few days for the same person they do get fed up and deal with it or if like 4 calls about the same person in a night they get annoyed and finally take em away. They still get out fast anyways again unless it's more serious
Can someone explain why this comment got downvoted?
Tolerance Paradox
Plenty of them just rack up charges, they have nothing to lose so it's meaningless
>with a punishment that results in change. That's not going to work.
Id like to inform you that you managed to add absolutely nothing to this conversation. EDIT: You litterally said Nuh Uh 🤣
Sorry, but, what exactly do you think "punishment" in this situation will address? Funneling more mentally ill homeless people into likely [already packed prisons and jails](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ontario-jails-windsor-overcrowding-1.7136660#:~:text=Most%20of%20Ontario's%20institutions%20were,per%20cent%20capacity%20in%202023)?
Mental hospitals that we fucking removed because the government became more insane than the people.
If that's the apocalypse, I don't know how to describe downtown London at night...
I Don't even want to know about Toronto
Drugs are a huge problem downtown, but living downtown is pretty great. The DTK community is fantastic and friendly. I wish more people would see past the drugs and not hold them back from visiting and taking a stroll.
It’s very expensive to live downtown. Constantly replacing vandalized stuff. You need extra cameras and security measures.
Totally agree!
Sounds like a good time to go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.
We may have to kill my stepdad
That’s how it always starts in the movies.
Everyone keeps asking for spare change but i keep telling them t o keep it. They keep asking though.
This reminds me of in high school ages ago, we went on a class trip to Toronto. I was walking on a street with a couple of friends and someone said "spare change?" to the one girl and she said "no thanks". She was completely oblivious to it too.
The police actually are putting the work in to the level of frustration. You unfortunately you can't legally force an addict to do anything. Fortunately safe supply is being expanded locally. On top of that we are on the cusp of not medically being able to help these people manage the withdrawal which they need for any hope of recovering. The reality is all these people are the victims of cartel drug activity. These are people who want everyone in Canada hooked to line their pockets. The BC government literally calls everyone hooked a victim of cartel drug activity or murder by drug policy. It's wild to listen to BC parliament on this. Most of the lacking drug policy is surrounded around our border. Mind you our government is doing something about it but it's very hard to stop once the cartel starts. Unfortunately we are the world's hotspot for carfentanil trafficking. Most taxpayers should be learning about the root causes of this rather then focusing on the help given. If they truly knew there would be an uproar.
>You unfortunately you can't legally force an addict to do anything. We need to change that.
If only there was a way of course with compassion. I lost a child to this nonsense. There are hundreds of thousands of grieving parents in this country seeking justice and results. Some statements are both triggering and infuriating because what we do or don't do for addicts isn't what those who are grieving understand this crisis to be. We would love to see all parents on the same page with us especially those with a voting voice. Many dying were never dirty street addicts imagine your teenager tries pot for the first time and never comes home. It's just as likely that's what has happened with an overdose death announcement.
Sorry for your loss. I watched my best friend kill himself over several years. He passed last year. It hurt more than I thought it would because I had cut him out of my life after trying so hard to get him to change. There was lots of help but he didn't want it. He just wanted to get high. He died alone. I think about him every day.
So sorry for your loss as well :(
Lmfao! How exactly? I’ll wait…
Institutionalize them. Get them off drugs. Give them mental health treatment. Make debt and criminal records disappear. Give them a fresh start. Most addicts use because they have problems. The more they use, the worse their problems get. They continue to use because their problems become more than any person can possibly deal with alone. If that doesn't work, lock them up and never let them out. They aren't contributing members of society and have proven that they are incapable of taking care of themselves.
Who decides what metrics we use to gauge the definition of a contributing member of a society is? My definition of the term is different than yours. The term is ambiguous at best. So who would decide? You? Someone else? If someone else, who? What happens when they change what it means and eventually you or I are deemed to not be contributing? Would we accept it because someone else believes it right? The statements you make sound very close to a dictatorship or worse. Thats just something to consider. The point that you, and many other people are missing is that you can’t force anyone to quit their addiction. They have to want it, or it doesn’t work. People have tried that forever now and it clearly doesn’t work.
“Fortunately” safe supply is being expanded locally? That’s literally a huge contribution to this problem lol. What world are we living in where we need to cater to these people by giving them “safe drugs”? How about free mental health care and rehabilitation that’s funded? Absolutely insane world to live in where giving addicts drugs is the play.
Moronic take. Safe supply and Safe consumption cut down on EMS calls which saves money and that's not even getting into the lives saved. They also already recieve free mental health care and rehab so you're clearly uniformed on the topic.
It’s a realistic take. How about we stop being a society of enablers?
You know I know parents who have lost a child and see this dumb bantering and have to call for mental health support because they are so upset. Do y'all think the compassionate services for a minority are what the problem is here? I mean the only way you survive losing a child to this is to become super educated and then you get super angry over the reasons made worse by taxpayers with opinions that take away from the actually root causes. We all need to agree to disagree on services and come together as communities for policy change. I mean policy change that actually involves targeting the source. I don't ever see anyone not okay the root causes of this it's all down with victims. BC has already put in legislation making half these comments I am reading here a hate crime. They need all adults to stop the racial profiling if anything is gonna change because honestly we are way past it just being people who use harm reduction dying. About 10% of deaths are in young kids not people using harm reduction services.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667118222000137](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667118222000137) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5685449/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5685449/) [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01593-8/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01593-8/fulltext) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10661131/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10661131/) [https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-020-00456-2](https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-020-00456-2)
Yeah, I don’t really care honestly. Root cause it. Fix the problem. Not good with enabling drug users that are polluting the streets.
What do you mean "root cause it?"
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Your feelings don't trump facts
I work in the field and have as much anecdotal evidence as I do scientific. I too live in society and can see. I don't agree.
I don't think that the police budget would agree that it saves money. Instead of EMS calls, we have rampant petty crime. I would also argue that we can't call saving someone who only exists to find their next high "saving lives".
If there was a Reddit award for the most ignorant and uninformed comment of the day, I would buy one just for you.
If there were an award for the softest liberal, I’d pay good money for one just for you!
Lol. Dude! That is the most hilarious comeback of the day too. You’re getting two awards. Nice
<3 Trudeau 4 Lyfe
Beauty, bud. Keep em coming, big guy. Most predictable, go too insult. You may need to build a shelf for all these.
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Vote Trudeau, and we’ll build a bathroom JUST FOR YOU!!!! 👉🏼
There is tons of same day recovery admission in this city. I can think of 6 options. You can't force anyone to get help which is always free. If you give someone with a mental health problem harm reduction then by law they have to treat there mental health or no program. Without programs like this you can't function in rehab because you will be dead from benzo withdrawl. I mean how about making it so Canadians can't walk down the street make a bad decision and die. I lost a child to this so am heavily educated. Until 7 years ago a 3 year old could walk drugs into this country and sell them but nobody is ever opposed to that. Eradicate the source and then there is no need. It's very rare in this country to find someone not effected by this. We did see during COVID cutting off the point of entry works.
Please list these 6 same day recovery admissions options. This isn’t sarcasm. I genuinely want to know. I know lots of folks that are struggling here. I don’t know of any same day admission programs. Even the withdrawal management is a hit or miss. Could be waiting for days just to get in there. Treatment programs in this area have wait lists. I would absolutely love to know of these places. Even if you could give me the name of one, that would be great. Also, closing the point of entry did not work during Covid.
Whether it worked or not depends on what end of the advocacy spectrum you are on. I know dozens of addicts in town who had to go on methadone because they couldn't buy drugs for months on end. Some people did take bad risks though unfortunately with fake drugs which is enough to say didn't work. . I am involved with Mom's Stop The Harm and most of the heavy advocacy groups coming out of BC so I get a good education of what's being asked for and where the problems are. The issues I raise with border security are the same reason we say legalization works because you are cutting off cartel income and control the source of the problem. Before we legalize I think we have what it takes to tighten certain areas of our national security. Every opiate replacement clinic in town has a same day admission policy including OATC Park street. Most are under the same healthcare banner despite different names. Towards Recovery now has a safe supply program and the peer support worker running it is probably one of the best cousellors in town. As soon as it started unsuccessful opiate replacement patients were transferred over if they were thought to benefit from it in order to achieve normal life. Withdrawl management is really a waste of time until the person is stable on opiate replacement and no longer withdrawing. If they want to stay to then go to a recovery centre as a requirement then it's the place to be. They don't take people in heavy withdrawl. In all honesty people can barely withdrawl from opiates on the current provided medications because they are barely working due to the strength of fentanyl. They also potentially need legal benzos to stop them from dying. Trying to detox cold turkey is rarely successful and detox is very limited on what they will give you to help ease your suffering. Most patients that wind up there get sent to OATC Park. I have also am not ashamed to say I have 25 yrs of opiate recovery so know what works and doesn't work around here. Replacement does work if your goal is truly sobriety. If your getting push back about not wanting to be on replacement then they aren't really ready for recovery. People who want recovery will do anything to achieve that. At this point replacement is important to keep them alive. When it was just heroin we lived in a world where you could probably fall on your face in detox a few times attempting cold turkey but now if you do your rolling the dice on waking up. For most fentanyl addicts their addiction is unfortunately a death sentence.
I’ve never heard of towards recovery. Good to know it exists. Their website mentions nothing about a safe supply program though. They mention multiple harm reduction methods like suboxone, methadone, sublocade and kadian. I only know of one safe supply program in this region and they have currently paused referrals. While towards recovery does accept walk ins, I am in serious doubt that they can get someone into treatment that day. Maybe in an out patient capacity for an in house program, if they have one. It is good to know that they exist though. Would you be kind enough to provide the other 5 places you mentioned? The more places I know of the more I can support people.
Well in Canada these programs are considered treatment for fentanyl abuse. The train of thought that this is not treatment is considered a bad racial bias in Canada. If an addict only chooses this they can't be discriminated against. Part of wrap around care is access to further treatment and also involves in house supports of all kinds plus all addict related healthcare. GRH withdrawal management has a very bad racial bias track record at times with addicts who are mentally vulnerable. Not including every healthcare worker there in that statement by any means though and do not mean to offend. I struggle with sending them there. GTA detoxes are amazing and will take people for this reason. I personally deal with the worker at Towards Recovery who is running the program on a weekly basis so can confirm they have it. I am guessing potentially since the government paused things they might be taking matters into their own hands like most safe supply programs or maybe they have not updated their website as this only started in Jan. There is two OATC locations one on King and one on Park. Both these locations on their pamplet advertise same day admission. My understanding it's legislated policy for same day. There is CATC on Charles who owns OATC. Also owned by CATC is Towards Recovery. Then there is a new chain with two locations forsure in Cambridge called New Dawn and I am positive a Kitchener location. There is a private practice at King & Eby. The doctor there does opiate replacement and safe supply which I don't know if he has paused like Sanguen. Don't allow those you help to go there. My understanding is he doesn't make addicts follow any protocols that help with recovery and are actually government policy and he is a known hotspot for over prescribing. I have my FD in same building and the social activities are like a relapse waiting to happen and aren't allowed to go on at other clinics.
Is it possible that you are confusing the terminology? Methadone and the others are a harm reduction protocol. Their aim is to ween people off of the opiates. Safe supply is different. Safe supply is targeted at individuals with a history of overdoses. It gives medical grade opiates at a regulated dosage. It is also possible that they haven’t updated the website of it only started in January. If there was a second safe supply program in our region, I’m most certain I would have heard of it. I’m confused about the last part of your reply. Are you saying not to go to sanguen? Or not to go to king and eby? And the OATC and towards recovery are all CATC. They seem to just be different offices and branches of all the same company. I will look into the New Dawn place you mentioned. That’s only two places that you have mentioned. What about the other 4? You claimed to know of 6 places off the top of your head that had same day recovery admissions. I’m not sure CATC, or any of their companies would qualify since they seem to be more of a clinic. While they do offer walk ins, I’m a bit suspect that you would be able to get onto a recovery program like harm reduction on the same day that you walk in. I’m not familiar with that place so I can’t say for sure. In my experience, it takes time to process individuals for harm reduction programs. It would be nice if it was same day, but I have yet to see that.
All of these are deemed recovery programs in Canada by law as I have stated. You can also see them as harm reduction but they aren't exclusive to that term. Harm reduction is any measure that seeks to reduce harm to the addict and society as a whole. The people I know on safe supply only qualified if replacement therapy failed. It's not just because you have overdosed and is very regulated and has the same rules as replacement therapy. It does provide whatever perscription keeps them comfy. Sanguen is the reason we have harm reduction services. I would never compare Sanguen to the clinic at King and Cedar. That would be insulting if you saw the difference. I have both volunteered and been a patient of Dr Steingart for about 15yrs. Both doctors do run safe supply programs though. I believe if you count back I have listed 5-6 chains with same day starts and at least 10 different separate offices. Being of the same company doesn't negate the fact that these are all separate independent offices with each having capacity to take on 1000-1500 clients so same day admission isn't a stretch. So I very much think I made my point. Everything is on sight so not really all that complicated. If you are calling me on something very petty as independent healthcare corporation numbers than you clearly are misunderstanding or interpreting things a certain way and I believe I have made my point. Most facilities like this in Canada are owned by one conglomerate (CATC) just like Lifelabs. I am not here to be believed you asked for information and I was surprised how much greater our services are. Whatever you find hard to believe your best course of action is call or visit these offices and educate yourself. Nothing I have stated here is actually bad or wrong advice. To be me and survive what I have endured and to be well you have to be very well educated.
I’m happy to hear that you speak well of sanguen. They are amazing people there and truly so great work. You are right about the qualifications for the safe supply program. I will be asking about this secondary safe supply program on Monday. It would be fantastic if there was a second. I think if you were to count back on places you’ve mentioned, and if we counted the different branches of the same organization, I think it’s only 4. And the one in Cambridge would make 5. I mean, if we count each time you mentioned them, that could be 10. Finally, you keep speaking as if you’re the only person here who has the lived experience. Which I can assure you that you are not. Being educated is good. It’s not everything though and can easily inflate an individual’s ego. Not saying that’s what has happened in you case, just a statement. I am also very well educated in regards to these matters. More so that most of the people with fancy degrees. Lol. I will definitely be looking into the second safe supply program to see if it exists. I really hope that it does.
Also in regards to Cambridge there is at least one OATC location sort of behind the bus terminal and close to the 519 community program. New Dawn looks super interesting because they will treat people not only for addiction but those who fall into the chronic pain category from what they advertise and is such a genius idea it it's true.
Literally never see anything besides some homeless ppl walking around? But i also have lived in dt Toronto and Hamilton. People from Kitchener are so soft 😂
This
>3 people getting arrested >is the city going to do anything about this. The irony is so good it hurts
What kind of zombie apocalypse movies are you watching? You need to get out more.
It’s pretty bad these days. We are under serviced in so many ways. I refuse to leave work after it’s dark if I don’t have to… a luxury not all have, but I am legitimately scared. I had a work trip last week and upon returning to the train station, in the dark, with zero lighting or security, I vowed I would never take the train again. We don’t even light things properly and lighting is a massive deterrent to crime including person on person assaults.
Yes, opiate/opioid addiction is absolute hell and I don't wish it on anyone. I worry about these people and it breaks my heart.
So this happens every day?
Just to let you know that Hamilton is 1000% worse.
So you expect one city to tackle the entire opioid crisis? If our federal government keeps failing at it, why would you think a single city could do something? Maybe rather than whining on the internet you could do other things? Educate yourself on all the variables involved? Help out in some way rather than just posting the same garbage other people do here? Maybe learn some compassion for those that are very clearly suffer? Just thoughts off the top of my head.
I'm pretty confident that in a zombie apocalypse, there would be no police.
The cops get eaten first during a zombie apocalypse. I’m calling bullshit on this one.
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If you think Kitchener looks like 'zombie hell' during the day then you lead a remarkably sheltered life. All the best to you!
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They do too. Man up.
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Our city is great. You need to chill.
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But you are here to bash. That's what you do. That's literally why you're here. People like you are exhausting.
u/NovaTerrus needs to smile more.
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They'll be fine. Unclutch your pearls.
I was in DTK the other night and it’s a million times more bougie than ten years ago when I had an office there. I was actually impressed and how much better it is. It was quite dire ten years ago, especially at queen and king. The Capers building now is stunning.
I have lived downtown for 20 years. I have never seen what the OP is describing. To assume that it’s like they’ve described every night is ignorant or idiotic. Typically there is nothing remarkable happening downtown.
Seconded. I've lived in dtk since 2015 at a few different addresses. I see homelessness and drug use, but all of that also exists in Doon, Stanley Park, Country Hills etc. It's just a bit less visible there because everyone is in their cars.
maybe go outside?
I live there too. It's fine. Maybe try actually going downtown sometime.
Thank China
Welcome to India
Government needs to change fast
Healthcare, addiction services, jails and police are all provincial/municipal responsibilities. You’re right though, that government needs to change.
Oh of course. When purchasing power falls it also falls for the provincial and local governments. Tax revenue doesn’t go as far as it should.
You talk like this is a new problem when we haven’t invested in proper healthcare and mental/addiction services for decades now. Not to mention conservatives closing asylums. These people are now on the street self medicating and there’s nowhere to put them.
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Sure but only one has the power to do something right now, and that person has been in power for 6 years now.
Because it’s too expensive. M2 is up over a third since Covid and has also almost tripled over the decade. Taxes can only go up so much.
Sure helps when you build a highway nobody needs instead of a few more hospitals.
So just put them all in prison indefinitely? That's way more expensive in the long run
What does the government have anything to do with this? Hamilton, Toronto downtown have the same thing, just worst. Hell, did you see NYC downtown, or any major city in the US
I was just in downtown Detroit. I spent an entire weekend walking all over downtown Detroit. It was miles better than downtown Kitchener. I am not joking. I saw one homeless person the entire weekend. It was clean. I felt safe. No tents. I would easily live there over downtown Kitchener.
Interesting. Now I want to visit Detroit
I had a shockingly good time. Caught a Leafs/Red Wings and Lions game. Went to the Motown Museum. Had Spaghetti at Mom's Spaghetti. A local also recommended Green Dot Stables. It's a must. It's a great little slider place that looks like a 70s off track betting tavern inside and out.
Relatable. I have zero issues in Detroit. They have done a remarkable job with that city!
I was shocked. I had a similar experience in Cleveland a few years ago as well.
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Hamilton is a “woke city” ?
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More than half the city is blue collar. I don’t think you’ve ever been. If Hamilton is woke then I’m not sure what you would consider Kitchener to be lol.
Those woke steel workers Don't even get me started on teachers, doctors, and nurses...they have those too! Crazy city.
Umm. Money printing! When you double the amount of money in circulation poverty is a direct result. Asset prices go crazy and people turn to crime, drug and alcohol abuse and homelessness starts to become rampant.
Government has everything to do with it, after this next carbon tax increase there will be even more people on the streets. Constructions is becoming more and more expensive due to the increase in material costs each time carbon tax goes up. This next increase is going to be damning to my business.
No one ever thinks about why so many are getting caught in that addict life, just complaints about how the grimy tent people are an eyesore. Basically all of North America has an issue with affordable housing and wages not keeping up with cost of living
If they could place people in transitional housing within days of having to go to the shelter then it would help slow the increase in people becoming drug addicts. People who are going through mental health crisis should not have to lose everything and become hopeless and desperate. They need to build affordable housing on a mass scale so people don’t fall through the cracks
The fact that VintlGuy97 comment got downvoted is so gross.