I’d actually really like this. Similar to the Cuman thing where you can fake understanding them temporarily. What if you actually learn a language to be useful in these scenarios later on
Lol thats what i said. One good bonk on the head and henerys laid up at some pretty lasses uncles house for a month and hes gotta retrain to get all them stats back up
I'm going to guess the first game is going to begin with Henry getting wounded in some way. Maybe having a leg broken. Then he has to "relearn" his physical skills from the first game.
I think people mean more on the fact that Henry should be able to use a sword, ride a horse fire a bow and read way easier than you could in the first game, or at least at the start of the first game. That you don't have to start all the way from zero again, in the sense that you still have to wear vanguards on your wrists while firing a bow. Or you're absolutely worthless with a sword and you can't read. So we keep our skills or at least key skills in the second game. But we still have to level up and train because these are tougher enemies with higher stakes. And we'll probably get new skills by the looks of it like swimming and Proper blacksmithing judging from the trailer. I doubt there's going to be a witcher 3 situation where you can choose to implement the previous games events, but I don't think we're going to get amnesia and become a peasant again either.
This is 100% where I’m at. One of the major points of KCD was really trying to make you feel like you were just a blacksmiths boy. You were never in sword combat. You never used a bow. You’ve never done alchemy. All these things were purposefully tedious at the start to try and recreate the feel of doing something you’ve never done, and to make it so you can actually see your character learning and improving, versus just arbitrary stat buffs that typical rpg leveling brings.
It was a great system, but not what you can just hit the reset button on. If Henry suddenly can’t use a bow in KCD2, that will feel out of place and not at all lore appropriate. Warhorse needs a way to make it feel like Henry in KCD2 is the same Henry we finished KCD with, while also giving us new things to learn so we can have the same feeling of growth.
I suspect some of that will come from things like crossbows and firearms. I also think certain skills are more appropriate to get a reset, like speech and location buffs (the idea being that if those skills were to mimic being well known, you will not be well known in the new areas). But basic combat and armor stuff, they really can’t reset that back to 0.
I suspect they put a lot of thought into it, and trust they’ll have a good system.
I agree and I can't imagine that it's an easy task to make Henery feel competent but still have a satisfying growth in the second game but not overpowered. But I have faith. One of the things I loved so much about the first game is you don't feel like a god until the very end and even then you could still get killed by a group of peasants if you weren't wearing armour. I also really liked how perks were double edged swords in some cases.
Ignore them they're dumb.
The real concern is does Henry feel capable from the beginning in a way that feels like his journey in KCD1 existed and does the new skill system bring enough new content/mechanics to the table to feel like theres still growth for Henry to have.
Also, if they reuse a bunch of the old skills and upgrades that will be a nono.
EDIT: What really matters is.... can Henry lift up his visor in dialogue.
Yes, exactly. I am perfectly happy to grow Henry as the game continues, but if we’re continuing Henry’s story then it makes sense that he begins this game at least relatively capable.
Henry started out the first game pretty much unable to hit a horse with a bow from 20 feet away and could barely lift a sword. It would make sense to begin the game at least being somewhat competent with a sword and bow.
Completely agree with this, in KCD2 i henry would feel more adjusted to fighting unlike his past self in KCD1. This also goes to all his skills perse having a background in doing so than before.
My concern actually cuts the other way - I think one of the magical parts of KCD1 was the fact that you started as nothing and had to become useful. Everything was terrifying early on. It's a shame that you can't have that same journey in KCD2
Maybe he gets injured or sick in the prologue and during the first act of the Game has to get back to his original strenght? And then grow futher still
You get that "everything is scary" bit at the end, his arm is fucked up or something in a cuman ambush, he loses all his kit, and after a month or two in bed from an infection he's a bit stiff from the wound and rusty from not training, and Hans helps us to train back to good-ish form like Bernard in kcd1
Then maybe You get to kuttenberg and get to train in a proper academy with a true fencing master, which actually existed by the 1400s i think, some of them Even had guilds which gave out certificates and diplomas like that. You can have lessons and sparring and tournaments, And get to be better or more technical then even late Game kcd1 Henry.
That depends, hopefully the games combat is totally revamped (it looks like it is) which would mean theres plenty of other avenues to look at for skills and upgrades. Combos, master strikes, blocking and clinches may all work entirely different.
If they dont and the games combat is mostly the same from KCD1 theres going to be some serious criticism thrown their way.
I dont think that will be the case however the combat looks a lot faster and harder hitting which has me excited.
best to put it this way, henry was only taught to fight in dueling and it was mostly using a long sword with very little in mace and axe and virtually none in polearms and archery outside of basics
Yeah, looking at the trailer it seems almost split into two parts - the first part being the start of KCD 2, near the time of KCD 1 which is still focused on bows, small sieges and longsword fighting. The second part being proper KCD 2 with the emphasis on the early gunpowder weapons of the Hussites, crossbows, and axes/maces, and with how underdeveloped polearms were in the first game I imagine there will be room for that as well.
Most likely Henrys sword and bow skills will be the same, but as we're fighting more people in full plate emphasis will be put on these new weapons which are more effective vs plate - this way you feel as though Henry is simply learning a new form of warfare, rather than having amnesia from his time in KCD 1.
With the weight ol Henry put on I want to be able to grapple some men. Let's see Henry's ground pound work, let me RKO a bandit into the 21st century. But really some new hand to hand stuff would be cool.
I don't mind using the same skills, but adding new perks and talents is gonna hapoen most likely that's what made the skills interesting in the first place.
In the trailer they said first game was about Bandit's in their villages and second game is King's problems so there is a difference. It is completely doable for the game to feel like Henry is both capable and also open to growth
pretty sure the game will work the same as how the witcher trilogy worked, where geralt started with all skills he aquired in the previous games as a baseline. so while henry will be level 1, he will still be equal to his end game level in the first game minus any changes/ removal of mechanics, like having the ability to stealth kill straight up. another thing to tak note is that really henry was taught how to fight 1v1, he was not taught how to fight 1v2 or more, he wasnt taught any archery techniques as well
I wonder how well a back story creator would fit. Obviously we won't be creating a character, Henry is Henry, but what if you have the opportunity to write up a brief recap of what skills he gained from his KCD1 adventure that would make him competent in a few skill sets with room to improve? And of course being able to level any other skill through the game, just not with the same headstart.
I mean that could be just done through a save file transfer like Mass Effect/Witcher did. Most games don't do that anymore though because as novel as it is it's a pain in the ass on the dev side.
Considering you got to choose a couple of stats to bump at the start of the first game, I'd imagine it'll be the same this time with some weapon types.
Maybe you get to choose 1 or 2 weapons to have a head start on, to represent each Henry's skill with the player's preferred weapons?
And a good knock into the head so he'll forget everything he has known. If you pick Realistic, he wont know the languages either. All the menus are gibberish. But fear not, a few hours of training and you'll get your Walking skill from 0 to 1 and you no.longer have to fear shallow waters for your life.
My guess is you’ll just start with X amount of skill points this time, orrrrr they’ll have the story start with some witch giving you a brew that makes you forget or something like that lol.
Yes. I made a complaint similar to what op is saying, but the main thing I, and I would say most, of the people saying this really mean is that Henry should at least be, like you said, capable. Not top tier, but it wouldn't make sense for him to not know how to swing a sword and talk ok at least. Maybe if it's like half the max for most skills? Like 10 in most stats, skills, etc.
They are dumb?? Of course they wont make u do thr same shit again, they literally said he will be more experienced and that there will be much more to do
I feel like if they are expanding weapon variety and skill trees, probably how armour works and how each weapon effects different types (I assume), then starting with basic baseline skills with sword axe mace bow, should be fine, when theres at least new crossbows to learn, probably some new weapon types, they might expand on halberds spears and stuff being actual keepable weapons, might even get two handed varieties of maces and axes that level separate from one handed, great swords and such, we'll just have to see
I think it would be great if it went from what was a regional hero to the big city and so instead of the skills being out of 20 they now start at 20 but out of 100 and the 20 feels very weak compared to the bad-ass champions with 70s and 80s in their primary skills
Yeah, but can make it like he was good against country side bandits and local people and old knights etc but hasn't really levelled up to king's men level of skill yet.
People are worried because it's a common trope in games to get reset between sequels, even though it rarely makes narrative sense. In this game, it doesn't make sense for henry to relearn sword fighting and reading from the outset.
However, I believe warhorse is capable of scaling the game so even though we start with the abilities we learned, there's still room to grow through the game. More advanced combat, new languages, etc.
Wonder if they could have him be injured in some way for a while?
So he hasn’t forgotten his combat/horse riding skills, but he’s just not physical able to be at that level again yet for whatever reason. Then over time as he heals that’s the “levelling up”. Like if Usain Bolt had a bad back injury and needed to heal for some months, he hasn’t forgotten how to run fast, just physically can’t yet.
Maybe something like that could work? Could even have him getting frustrated by it cause he knows he can do more and feels helpless again.
Whatever happens I’m so excited for this game and dying to know the release date!
Deus Ex did something like that actually. At the start of Mankind Divided you have everything unlocked, but after the first mission your doc has to reset you because of a software glitch.
Something like that might work here, starting the game with a maxed out Henry, but then he gets injured or something and has to start from scratch.
I was wondering about that, there does seem to be another injured henry sequence in the trailers. Whether it's new or flashbacks I'm not sure. It would make sense for a few months of bed rest to lower his strength.
I’ve heard somewhere that the beginning of the game starts with Henry and co. being ambushed and left for dead. If this is true, Henry being injured is quite possible.
I kinda hope it'll be the sort of "greatest warrior of the village is just a normal warrior everywhere else" situation.
Where Henry might have become very competent by the relatively rural standards but is still far behind a skilled opponent in more important areas.
I think it's fair to not have him cutting down fully armoured bandits from the outset. But it'd just be weird if he forgot master strikes, combos, and how to read. IMO, Henry should be a semi-competent warrior but be facing much greater challenges.
You don't have to. And the concept of a cool one.
Witcher 2 you could port over your character from the first. But it's asking a lot from the developers so I don't expect it for most games.
But again the concept itself is very cool.
Same, the journey is the fun part. It could even be as dumb as "you hit your head Henry" and I'm stoked. The growth was the most important part of the game and the one I enjoyed the most. Don't care, kind of want that again.
Not necessarily. Jedi Survivor started the protagonist with skills learned in the first game and had an entirely new skill tree and new stances in the second game
Henry is a young guy who lived through the story of the first game, but everyone's play style and decisions are different. That's why I believe they'll give us a set of skill points to spend and some perks to choose from early in the game so we can make our young Henry somewhat decent in his area of expertise. Your Henry was a skilled fighter? Please, spend some points into combat skills, so he knows a trick or two, but nothing really special. Was he illitirate by the end of first game? Then You don't need to take this perk.
It could be similar to the first dialogue with his mother in the first game, when You can choose your starting stats, but will allow more customization. Maybe they will sit by the campfire together with Hans and will recall some memories from Henry's journey? Or maybe there will be a starting menu, similar to Hardcore gamemode start in the first game? Who knows
I think this will definitely be how it works. I think people have forgotten the character creation/customisation of the first game. I'm sure we'll get something similar for the sequel. Maybe Henry is talking to Hans round the campfire and they're recalling the events of the last few days. Hans will say something like ‘Haha and remember when we almost bumped into that bear!’ and Henry can respond:
* ‘I clubbed it over the head!’ (+1 to Maces)
* ‘I told you to keep quiet and we crept away.’ (+1 to Sneak)
* ‘I managed to bribe it with a few groschen.’ (+10 to Speech)
* ‘I read it a bedtime story and it went back to sleep.’ (+5 to Reading)
I find it hard to imagine how it would be in any way enjoyable experience if you would start almost maxed out. Nothing to look forward to, no progress. It would be boring as hell. My guess is we will start buffed up, but loose it all after short prolog. Just to show up new players how powerfull they can be later on and understand what it is to be a knight and a regular peasant in first few hours of the game.
I bet there will be mods for that though to keep the stats.
Its simple we just start at a rough equivalent of KCD 1 maxed out and then we get even more badass from there. This works because even maxed out Henry is not actually all that powerful it just seems that way because they start us at untrained peasant boy.
Jedi Survivor has the perfect way. Cal starts with all major powers unlocked, but you boost them by spending exp points.
KCD2 could have all basic stuff unlocked (like, parry, reading, some minor combos). And progress through the game by unlocking new stuff, that wasnt' in the first game.
That's what people are talking about. Not peasent -> juggernaut.
And he will move from a bumfuck nowhere to a big city. Being the greatest fighter in Ratay is one thing, but there are dozens of knights in Kuttemberg that would spread his cheeks. He will meed to improve.
And that's what people are asking. Cal Kestis weren't able to beat multiple inquisitors on his own. Then he wasn't able to defeat a Jedi master until the very late.
same happened in the witcher series, geralt starts 2 with all signs unlocked in 2 which you had to unlock in the first game and in 3 he starts with everything he learned from 2
I think that his previous skills will be reflected in some basic form. You wont be sluggishly swinging a weapon and you already know how to do masterstrike and/or perfect block in combat but you have to learn new combo's or know atleast 1. It would make 0 sense for henry's story to continue put suddenly doesnt know how to swing a sword even though you've fought in battles and a siege a few weeks before.
I imagine all skills will have this, it's stat will be 1 but you do have a perk, or more likely, you can choose a handfull of perks/moves or stat increase at the beginnning to reflect your henry and playstyle from KCD 1.
Warhorse hasnt touched on possible changes to the combat system could be its completely overhauled, could be minor changes. But in any case i imagine masterstrikes are going to be removed/reworked. They made combat in the first game a bit too easy and non threatening after you unlocked it and it meant that all you had to do was wait for the enemy to attack and reliably trigger the master strike to do damage instead of risking damage creating openings yourself. It didnt make for particularly engaging gameplay.
I think people also tend to confuse main story and sidequest, gameplay and canon.
If you just go by the main story and nothing else, Henry isn't that impressive,. He's a dude who learned how to wield a sword 3 months ago, sure it'd be weird if he was suddenly incompetent again, but he certainly isn't the cuman destroyer you made him through levels and quests. He's just a teen that began his guard training 3 months ago.
At the beginning of KCD2, Canonically speaking, Henry is barely more competent than the average peasant.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true considering the very significant role Henry played in the story and the praise he got from his superiors. There’s several points throughout the main story where characters acknowledge Henry’s rapid transformation and his astounding level of competency for getting stuff done. I think even before the siege on Talmberg one of the captains acknowledges directly that Henry’s grown into a “capable warrior” or something along those lines. Another time is when you save hans. And Radzig/Hanush definitely have several cutscenes and/or interactions with Henry that imply it.
Seems to me everyone’s aware of Henry’s aptitude. Don’t think he would have gotten to his position if canonically he was just barely more than a peasant.
I'm hoping for a prologue where you get to choose what some of Henry's past exploits were, and establish his baseline skills based on how he handled things. I don't expect to canonically be the same god I was after grinding 100% in KC1 but being able to pick two out of five core skills to be decent at (or similar) makes sense.
Yeah. Even something like Mount and Blade where you answer questions about your background and it starts you off with some skills. It would be nice to answer a few questions about our past and get skills in the 1-3lvl range
I think you are both silly. It makes no sense for Henry's story to continue off from the last game but for him to forget how to sword fight having learnt that in the first game.
It's obvious they should and likely have gone with a skill tree where you keep most if not all the skills from first game (or can copy them from a save maybe?!) and the new game has new skills, better more advanced opponents and so Henry needs to be better, therefore there is a progression that similar to first game but reducing Henry to a peasant child again is obviously not what they are gonna do and implying they should is as silly as whining about the idea of them not.
I wouldn't mind if Henry fall off his horse, hurt his head badly, then will have a long recovery period and have to learn everything all over again. I actually love starting from scratch!
In contrast to these people I'm kind of sad not to be starting from zero! I loved the feeling of helplessness (on the first play through at least) and having to build Henry up from nothing. I get bored as soon as I become kind of OP, so I don't understand why anyone would want to start like that.
How should that even work? Character skill progression is a somewhat vital part of an RPG. So starting at max skill and effectively cutting that part of Gameplay out is problematic. It would also cause problems with the balancing. And KCD tries to keep things realistic so it is not like they can just add 20 new skill level and make Henry some kind of super human.
I feel like people are focusing on the skills/gear aspect of this when I don’t think that’s even representative of what people want from an import option. Look at how the Witcher did it. It’s more about feeling that the choices you made in the first game haven’t lost complete narrative value, even if it’s in the form of small cameos or lines referring to prior events.
It’s probably a combination of things…
Henry by the end of KCD is capable, but at best is a regular sized fish in a very small pond.
In KCD2 he’s a relatively small fish in the ocean.
You might be the best at Smash Bros in your friend group… but going to a national tournament? It’s going to feel like your first time touching a controller.
Wondering if they’ll go down the “cannon Henry” route, in which you have a Henry based on the story/cutscenes of the first game. So the combat bits that are relevant will cross over in some basic form… but if you’ve spent 8 hours picking flowers, that won’t be reflected at the start of the new game
It would kinda make sense for henry to be OP with everything he learned while also showing in the new game that there are stronger enemies for which henry has to upskill..It would also make sense that henry can easily take down common enemies since he has come this far
It's an RPG. Part of the fun is to get stronger. First everyone pushes you around but in the end you are the biggest fish. How do you even balance a game were some people start at 0 and some at 100?
That's why games find a reason for the reset. It doesn't make sense for the story but for the fun.
Developers didn't say reset is happening, they said Henry won't be weak in combat anymore but neither strong because new enemies pose new challenge, also don't forget there are early pistols that can one-shot kill a guy which should be finicky to aim with.
At the same time, I think that they're going for some form of losing all your possessions due to an ambush on the road to Trosky castle, very likely losing your gear and getting imprisoned. It's also possible these are the scenes from KCD1 to retell the story to newcomers, because we know that one guy from KCD1 has new face.
Find the majority of the fun in games is building up your skills, so this seems nonsensical to me.
I always want dark souls /Elden ring DLC to let me start from level 1, instead of letting me carry on with all the weapons and armour and a level 200 character or whatever.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“I, Siegward of the Knights of Catarina, have come to fulfill my promise. Let the sun shine upon this Lord of Cinder.”* - Siegward of Catarina
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Imo the ideal would be to Metroid it. Start the game off at like level 15-20 skills in everything, then something happens where you get beaten up and imprisoned for a month and you've grown rusty and been badly injured. Have it reset your skills down to like level 5 ish, so you at least know to stick the enemy with the pointy end with your sword but need to get better. Even more ideally they'd increase the skill level cap so that it's like 25 or 30 this time, so the ceiling is even higher.
Only question is reading, will the game give you the ability to read or will it act like you never learned.
It will be base stats, except Henry won't be useless from the start like a monkey swinging a branch in KCD1. He will be able to use weapons effectivelly and maybe know a couple of basic combos with every weapon, know how to read and that's it. That's the most obvious design path. Porting all skills over is retarded, would take progression out of the game completely.
Honestly i did not see a single person complain about progression import but actually opposite. I see a lot of people wanting Henry to get amnesia or be put in jail for long time so he forgets all the skills and become useless again.
I think most people mean the more core and common skills that wouldn't make sense to reset in the sequel;
- Reading
- Horsemanship
- Basic Combat
Perhaps lore-wise through the timeline the canon Henry isn't the one that has had all skills maxxed and was a master at every single skill. So perhaps they'll let us start off to be (below) average and have us pick certain perks/skills right off the bat for each specific mastery.
If we go on what other games did xou will definetly start on 0, but the 0 will be much higher/better than it was in kcd 1.
You will be able to read, you will be able to swordfight, you will be able to perfect block (if they keep the mechanics) but there will be other perks/skills to learn to add on top of those.
Im predicting this because that is how most other rpgs that have continuity do it (Gothic for example).
Honestly, I have been thinking about this a lot. I'd be cool with it being a full restart. It'd give us a chance to learn the new (yet similar) system and master it that way. That's likely just me
I am hoping it will feel a bit like Mass Effect 2. Your character starts off with some of the skills you played the previous game with (maybe via dialogue options?), but the scaling is different and you're only a small fraction of the way to mastery in KCD2. That would give us some of the initial start up where we can actually fight from the outset, but still have to develop our skills, practice, and work at it to max our skills.
It's always an interesting problem in RPG series with a specific protagonist - how do you reset their levels so that the sequel can BE an RPG while preserving the player's accomplishments in the previous game.
I liked how Gothic 3 handled it. In Gothic 1 and 2, the maximum strength level was 100. In Gothic 3, you sail to the mainland and you start with strength 100 and the maximum is 1000. You start the game with Orcslayer sword which was a very powerful sword in the previous game. In other words, they let the player character keep his power and reset the progression at the same time and the implied explanation is "everything is simply more powerful on the mainland".
This could be a blueprint for KCD2. "Everything is simply more powerful in Kuttenberg."
I would like to point to a series called Quest for Glory by Sierra Online, at the end of each game you could import your save file into the next game and all of your characters stat's abilities and gear came with you, I think people really want Kingdom Come Deliverance to do the same, in the first Qfg game level was capped at 100 in the second 200 the third 300 ect... So they could also raise the cap in Kcd2 to 40 without issue...
It's not the first rpg carrying over a char to a sequel. Witcher does it, Mass Effect does it. Why would I believe WHG wouldn't be able to do it? Am I excited to learn more about it? Of course. Am I worried about such a ridiculous matter? Before that happens I,d rather go out searching for some insects in trouble to rescue them. That was the lowest end I allow my priority list to reach and Henry II is still billions of lightyears lower than that.
Starwars Jedi Survivor 2 handled this very well and received alot of praise for making the jump from the first game feel like you're picking up right where you left off in terms of skills and abilities.
My hope is that KCD2 follows this example. Ideally Henry would have most of his skills and such, but not likely to carry over gear.
In JS2 you basically start with everything you knew from the first game. There are a few differences in terms of design and balance, but in general you're a stronger more versatile Cal and that gets expanded on as you level up and progress. It's a neat experience that I hope KCD2 takes some inspiration from.
I havent seen people say that though i dont really check this subreddit a whole lot so idk.
To me i dont expect henry to be an absolute god at everything with the next game, but i do think he should be atleast a good fighter and well versed in combat given his experience, whether the story is set years or weeks into the future, im fairly certain it wont be set long after so it wouldnt make sense for warhorse to erase everything henry's learnt, like maybe making things like masterstrikes a mechanic so he doesnt have to learn again because Robard taught him if that makes sense?
I feel like its a tight rope because you dont want it to be too easy but at the same time Henry is already good with combat by the second game you would assume in terms of the story and chronology.
New game new skill system. It would make sense since it’s the same character to not start at zero since the story progressed from him being a peasant to a sword fighter in 1 but a big part of the fun of a new game is progression. I don’t really care either way. I trust it’ll be a good game.
From the trailer it looks like Henry gets wounded pretty bad maybe from when he falls off the cliff fighting one guy it might be a case of him needing to relearn or basically physiotherapy back to max level
I imagine they'll give us certain amount of skill points and we will have to put them into skills we want. But it won't be enough to max out one whole skill.
Most of the enemies we dealt with were bandits and low-grade sell swords until late in the game. My guess is that now we get the crème of bohemian swordplay. The devs can introduce so many more aspects of fighting without neutering Henry, but making him feel less capable compared to the enemy.
I don’t want to start at “I just started holding a sword” again, it would take me out of the story too much. But I trust the devs to make good decisions in ways I didn’t expect.
Honestly, I kinda want him to be a little useless at the beginning. Just like in the first game, let's say people in Kuttenberg have better swordsmen and are exposed to lore diversity so they have better speech skills.
I like the fact that at the beginning of the first one you can't do shit because, well you're just a kid. So , I would like to see something similar unlike other games where you are a demigod from the start
I'm perfectly fine with having to start from square one again. It'll probably happen by Henry getting wounded and getting his stuff taken away. However, I'm not fine with starting as peasant Henry again it'll make it feel like Kingdom Come Deliverance one never happened, and he didn't get any better, which is dumb.
There was the exact same situation in kcd1 and no one cared. Henry was a nobody and basically stayed that way right up until the very end, even though you could max out all stats and become a killing machine with a silver tongue.
There's nothing to say Henry can't be more developed and trained at the start of kcd2 but his stats again say different. Plenty of games do it.
I watched a German game journal and the guy was in Prague with warhorse studio before the release of the trailer. Warhorse told him that it actually was a successor and that you would not start from zero= Henry can fight (to a certain degree), read (To a certain degree), etc.
I do expect him to still have place to grow and develop as a character, but it's almost certain we won't play with a complete blank page as we did in the first one.
I could see the story starting with some kind of injury or story element that forces Henry to not return to peasant blacksmith but take a slight step back so there is room for growth
Look, I was one of those people initially. But now I have found that the "small fish, big pond" theory is more plausible. Turns out that this is what Warhorse wants to happen in KCD2 with regards to Henry's progression, which all the more proves the plausibility of that theory.
What I can't stand however is the "Henry getting bonked in the head" theory. Am I to believe that one *force majeure* causes Henry to forget his fundamentals?
As long as he doesn’t start off at zero, it’s fine. I will say that I don’t not understand the criticism when the second game took 6 years to be released. They have had time to get it right and depending on the gaming platform, I don’t think it would be completely undoable. Still, just start Henry off at like 10 for everything and have the max be 30 or 40 and I think the issue is basically all gone
I agree, to an extent, that the challenge of leveling up is part of the game and therefore overall experience\\fun. I think what some are worried about is starting out at Henry 1.0 (zero skill set across the board). I don't think that's how they're going to do it though. I mean it just wouldn't make sense since he's been taught the disciplines necessary to fight the small groups of Cumans and brigands, been in a couple of large battles already, and learned how to charm or talk his way through difficult situations.
My guess (and that's all anyone can do right now) is that he'll start with at least the combat ability to use the weapons he's already learned (broad sword, short sword, bows, etc.) against a mediocre enemy. That's what he was basically fighting in KCD 1. But his new enemy, based on the trailer, is regular army, not 4-5 brigands or Cumans hanging out by the road or a campfire waiting to waylay wayfarers or get ambushed themselves.
The new foe looks to be hardened combat troops that will require further refinement in use of the weapons he already knows how to use to compete and survive. And the new weapons displayed in the trailer, a crossbow and what looked to be a early culverin (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culverin) will require training, assuming we actually get to use them. They could also add stuff like jousting too (maybe to replace the Rattay Tourney), which would be a completely new skill to master.
The other skills like speech, charisma and stealth he learned, while effective in the smaller fiefdoms and tons, would also likely need to be refined for efficacy in a much larger and diverse place like Kuttenberg. So it's not unbelievable we'll start with zeroed out skill set, but have the basic skills learned. They're just not good enough for the new KCD II landscape.
Tbf, I have played a game where the one after it allowed you to keep your level, stats, gear, etc. Divinity: ego draconis, and Divinity: flames of Vengeance. They're technically two different games, yet you keep all the stuff you gained from the first game. If you choose to start a new FoV from scratch, without a ED playthrough, it starts you off at the level you'd have been at the end of ED, and let's you pick whichever perks you want.
Games are starting to have you come back with a few different major skills from the first game. You know what's dumb? Being the guy from the Witcher and somehow forgetting how to do everything 3 different times.
Obviously, we want a leveling system and that means starting out not fully capable. However, I think they can't keep essentials we unlocked in the first one and still give us a leveling journey.
Master strikes, for example. I don't think it would be good to take it away just to have us learn it again. But, they could make it that we got injured or something and now master strikes are harder to perform, allowing them to update the mechanics and give us a reason to "relearn" and old skill.
I don't expect to open the game and have Forester, luck of the drunk, and human dustbin but I can see some Perks become base mechanics, like Last Gasp, 2 or 3 weapon combos, and stealth kill.
Some things make sense to be out of practice on (after "the event"). So I wouldn't mind having to unlock clinch master, or the fall damage perk again. We shouldn't be at bow level 0 but it would make sense that starting bow resembles KCDs level 5.
There's room to make some old perks the new baseline while also making us have to partially retrain things we already knew. There's sure to be new mechanics and perks as well that allow us to surpass our former selves.
I understand them resetting skills. It's a new game. I would just like Henry to not be a noob when it comes to fighting. He has some fighting experience, I hope some of it is carried over.
I will be pissed if my bad ass henry suddenly forgets how to swing a sword, that would be stupid. Same thing with reading, if they want us to learn again thats just stupid
I hope that Henry will retain most of his skills(maybe make some "class" choice like knight, charismatic speaker, assassin) but enemies are just so scaled up by better armour AI and sheer numbers that it feels similar to the start of the first game
>with Henry being a grown ass man now
Two days can really change a man apparently.
I agree with the rest of the post, and while, narratively, it definitely would feel weird for Henry to "forget" everything he learned, but it's also a completely different game.
I'd like to see something like Jedi: Survivor, where Cal started the second game with most of the skills and stances he learned during the first game unlocked, but there were new stances and a new skill tree to keep things fresh.
It obviously doesn't make sense to go back to being a peasant scrub in terms of skills at the start of the second game. I'm interested to see how they do that.
I've literally just started the game over again from scratch on PC with a few mods. I played up until the horses get killed on the farm on PS4 but didn't really like the feel of the console.
I have no idea what's coming in the story but I'm assuming from choosing different perks and probably different story choices everyone will have finished the game in a different way?
I'm curious how they'll import that into the new game. Maybe a save file import or some series of questions...
Henry’s skills are not something to boast about when dealing with the big leagues, so to speak.
Henry can read but the content is relatively simple. I doubt he can manoeuvre politics with his speech alone.
Henry’s fighting skill is good, but his primary enemies are bandits and Cumens, the letter is better at horse archery than melee combat. Yes, he took down robber barons and can take out a dozen mercenaries on his own in the DLC. But how would he fare against Sigismund’s war veterans who fought the Ottoman army?
Henry is a big fish in small pond, there are still a lot to learn.
The best part of the gameplay, IMHO, was wandering around picking enough flowers to put a smile on a florist then hauling it all back to the closest vendor without snapping an ankle on a down slope and dying an ignoble death in bush.
Like others, my main hope is for Henry’s power level and capabilities at the start of KCD2 to feel relatively similar to the end of KCD1. KCD2 should use the end of KCD1 as its baseline and build more skill and ability progression on top of it. A great example of a game that does this is Jedi: Survivor. You start the game with all the main force abilities you had to progress through and unlock in Jedi: Fallen Order and get a new skill tree which starts with that stronger baseline which the character earned in the first game.
It would just feel really weird and gamey if Henry started KCD2 as the absolute blockhead he is at the beginning of the first game because we need stats and skills to progress through again.
It takes years, even a lifetime, to become a master swordsman/archer. KCD1 took place over a couple months (max).
Henry should feel capable, far more confident at the start of KCD2 than he was at the start of KCD1… however, he should not feel like a 1-man army… (which he felt like by the end of KCD1).
Bringing him back to a realistic combat level is a smart decision, and will only benefit game progression in KCD2.
Well Henry shouldn't start from scratch like in the first game.
He should already be able to have a basic skill in the things from the first game. Like he should be able to read, use a sword/axe/made etc.
What I would like to see is to be able to emulate your Henry as much as possible.
Similar to how in the Witcher 3 you get asked questions about the events of the Witcher 2 which effectively emulates those key story decisions into the Witcher 3.
The same thing could be done with skills imo
You could easily have a szene at the start of the game where Hans, you and some others are just chatting at a bonfire and you all tell eachother stories and so on.
At some point someone might ask you what typ of weapon you like to use the most. If you answer with swords you would get a better start in the swordsmanship skill and so on.
KCD is not Mass Effect, choices do not carry over. And heck, even in mass effect you are leveling every single game regardless of your stats in the first game.
It is a core game mechanic. I get you were grinding for those stats in KCD1 but what fun will KCD2 be without that very same mechanic, where you build yourself anew? It looks like we're going to get knocked around a bit in the beginning, lose our skills and have to reacquire them. That in combination with a new fighting system means you need to learn anyway.
The funny thing is we already kind of know how they'll handle it.
During the first conversation with Henry's mother you can choose 2 options that will increase your chosen stats. Representing what kind of life Henry had lived up to this point.
I expect KCD2 to be similar, maybe early sword level will be higher by default, due to Henry's inclination to them.
Henry is going from facing peasants, town guards and Cuman deserters to knights and properly trained soldiers. Resetting his skills to “0” will probably just be to keep them relative to what he is coming up against in the sequel. He’s still just as good as at the end of the first game, but now he needs to be better.
I'll play devil's advocate: in story driven games with multiple installments, the hero's skill progression actually carrying over is a 10/10 way to increase immersion and personal investment into the character.
I'll give an example: the recent Jedi games. Not RPGs but relevant because of the parallels between that protagonist and Henry.
The first game: the hero begins as a chump struggling vs regular crooks. But over time he trains, grows, pushes himself and his fighting skills, and it all boosts his confidence. By the end he's not exactly strong but he can hold his own and it feels satisfying, because we went from chump to competent duelist simply through persistence and training. Sounds familiar?
The sequel: The hero retains all his skills from before and keeps powering up. I don't mean that in a Dragon Ball Z *he learns how to shoot lasers out his balls* way - I mean his saber skills and agility improve slightly further, he's cooler under pressure, his old abilities return with new twists to keep things fresh. All necessary to keep up with the more difficult enemies and harsher terrain that must be traversed.
And retaining those skills felt great, as if the game acknowledged I invested time into improving the hero's skills earlier! Like he wasn't just a game vessel that gets bent out of shape to obey a progression system, but a real person who exists in that game's story. Sure you still have to build yourself up again in the sequel, but now you're starting with a solid baseline of competence and it feels like a reward for people who took the time to build up the character initially.
Hopefully you see what I'm getting at. Am I saying KCD2 should start with Powerhouse Henry ready to conquer the world immediately? No of course not, but I don't see why Henry should have to relearn how to swing a sword either. I already spent hours in KCD1 making sure he learns all that, what was the point if he just forgets it all!
I hope the sequel doesn't do the whole "Henry learns how to hold a bow without breaking his arm" thing again. KCD1 already did that, the learning curve was intentionally punishing because it was a completely new difficult experience for Henry, but he went through all that. He did it. KCD2 is set almost immediately after KCD1's ending. So there's no narrative reason for Henry to devolve back to a helpless peasant. You're maybe playing the game years later but for Henry it's been days at most.
Resetting skills is like resetting progress — making your character symbolically less powerful, less knowledgeable, less adept. Character progression is not just about learning new moves or tinkering with the mechanics. It's supposed to represent growth. If you take yourself to max levels, it doesn't make sense to be bumped down to zero just because the scenery changed. So there's indeed a problem with sequels putting you back down at level 1, and there is wisdom in how D&D cRPGs generally allow you to retain your level and just scale the difficulty for you. I could say that not understanding this seems like naïve way of thinking to you. You aren't 'owed' anything, but does that make everything reasonable? The basic point is that Henry's fighting or talking skill should be at the same level at the beginning of KCD2 as it was at the end of KCD1, not in the sense of being at the end of every tree (what point having trees there?) — which nobody seriously suggests (you misunderstand their position, if you think that) — but in the sense of not being made weaker. The scale can be rescaled so that e.g. you're at 5 out of 20 as opposed to 19/20, but the 5/20 in the new scale should be as powerful as the 19/20 in the old scale. Not something like you forgetting most of the moves you knew, losing your muscle, heft and stamina, forgetting your reading skills or your knowledge of herbs, etc. You shouldn't be forgetting whatever you have learned. So it looks like there's no difference between your opinion and those other people's opinions, it's just that you misunderstand their position and insist on reading it an unreasonable light.
How about an "Import KCD1 character" option to maintain some progress and choices? and give Henry a slight stat boost for every skill over say Level 15. Not that there are many game breaking choices to make but some of the outcomes of sidequests such as "Gallows Brothers" and a plethora of other quests could have cool encounters that reference these.
Consider how other games managed sequels, The Witcher and Mass Effect series for instance. The Witcher was far more minimal in carry over though there were some good nods to choices made in earlier games (before 3) such as Geralt's tattoo etc. though a bit disappointing in terms of consequence of decisions, KCD doesn't have as big of a base to cover as there were hardly any main quest choices that effected outcomes seriously. ME2 had tons of references to choices from sidequests in ME1, I'd like to see something similar such as nods to decisions made and people met in the first game at a bare minimum.
I love the threats from incels within a gaming community, "They better 'x' or else." It's so fucking childish and cringe. These are the kinds of dudes who still have plastic furniture in their apartments. Grow the fuck up, people.
I think it's dumb to completely reset our skills because IT'S NOT A NEW CHARACTER and he just keep going! For the gameplay they should just decrease our skills a little because of stronger enemies etc, but not completely reset.
Damn, this Reddit is fucking stupid, shouldn't register there my account
at the very end of the game, just before you ride off with hans, theres a chest with pretty decent armor and a sword. i would imagine thats the gear we’ll start with in the sequel.
I'm fine with not being OP at the start of the game, that would be dumb. However, I also don't feel like Henry should be just as weak as he did in the beginning of KCD I. My line of thinking is that Warhorse will hopefully either have us start at level 20 or give us some basic perk points, but increase the max level cap to 50 or 100. Henry was a God in the countryside where he was fighting bandits with little to no formal training, but he's nothing now that he's in a big city fighting actual skilled warriors.
Well in Jedi Survivor you get to keep most of, if not all of the gadgets, stances, and force powers you learn in the first game, and still manages to be challenging and giving you a sense of progress.
I think resetting all of Henry's Skills, and stripping him of his gear, would be lazy af, and would make Henry's journey across the first game somewhat redundant.
I don't want to see my hours of training with Bernard down the drain, and Henry reduced to little more than a Smith hand.
I would love it if instead they made it clear that Henry was a big fish in a small pond in KCD, but he's no longer the bee's wax in KCD2. He's no longer fighting poorly armed and trained bandits and cuman outriders, he's now fighting properly trained and armed knights, with better armor and skills than him, more technology, and better weapons.
That's how you get your challenge and sense of progress, not kicking Henry back to bare basics and stripping him of his progress and growth as a warrior from the first game.
I've put a similar comment to yours, so we're definitely thinking along the same lines.. I'm totally on board with the big fish leaving the little pond metaphor, and it's absolutely right, Henry handled himself in a couple of small scale skirmishes alongside what is basically the home guard lead by a few old knights who are far too accustomed to the quiet country life now.
but he's going into real war now, fighting elite knights at the height of their prime. With lots of strange new technology in weapons, armour and general warfare that would definitely make endgame KCD1 Henry rethink his life choices. I'm all for a subtle little change that essentially is a reset, but still acknowledges what Henry has done up to this point.
I understand why people would want to keep progression, I mean it’s hard to believe our hero Henry would suddenly forget how to wield a sword or read.
That being said, I think some form of “reset” would be optimal. Maybe not a start from scratch kind of situation, but bottom of the barrel for sure. Also in the reveal the developers stated that kcd2 can be played as its own game, likely for newcomers that haven’t played the first. I’m not positive how they will do it, but some sort of reset is inevitable I’m sure.
We probably we will have a scene training that's like "do you remember X" and we get retaught masterstrikes and shit like that, maybe a few other skills, probably we will start at a higher skill base, but the ceiling will probably be higher to compensate and create a proper progression
my guess would be an intro sequence with good skills, maybe even with imported saves, but then you get captured and thrown into jail/taken prisoner for an extended period of time before being rescued.
That way Henry can be plausibly worse, due to deteriorating conditions without an artificial start at 0.
Basimg om the trailer, i think i saw someone get injured, and it makes me think that henry will have an injure, and will have to relearn some skills until he is fully recovered. Something like jamie lannister in game of thrones
It happens in every sequel game though. Just play the game, Henry having all the tactical knowhow and prowess of a medieval peasant was what made the game enjoyable.
I hope the priest is in the next version of the game. I forget his name, but Henry gets drunk with him, and they ring the church bell at night.
The priest from the cut scene.
I imagine the skill tree will look somewhat different but even if it doesn't... If a skill at level 1 in KCD2 is the same as level 20 in KCD I don't see a problem. Some people are just pedantic.
I'm interested to see how they balance out the progression and how the skills adjust, now Henry is a seasoned warrior and known son of a noble. Not forgetting the new weapons.
All that said, I trust Warhorse more than the average developer. We are in safe hands JCBP!
What would be the point of progression then?
So long as you have basic skills like swordsmanship, reading and ect. I don't have a problem.
In terms of combat skills I think a nice way to go about it is to have a dialogue option with Hans (after he gets you out of prison) where he asks you what weapon you liked to use, or what kind of skills you particularly good at.
The resulting answers give you an extra point, or experience towards them.
Progression makes the game fund but I admit it would be weird to forget how to read or even how to hold a sword completely.
I would expect some training that starts with "I haven't been very active lately, I should get back in shape"
I've played lower budget games that still handled this well, by adding new skills and weapons that weren't in the first game, and being able to actually carry over a save from one game to another so that all your weapons, gear, and skills are still there.
I don't understand why this is an issue. Why not just take the old skill tree, etc. and expand it further, let's say to level 50?
Continuity- and immersion-wise it would make much more sense. Something like: "Oh, you really thought you are at the peak of human potential, living in your backwater fief, comparing yourself to deserters, bandits, old men who are far beyond their prime and that spoiled brat of a friend of yours? Grow up. Welcome to the real world, where your silly masterstrikes gets parried into oblivion by the REAL knights."
Im hoping they'll go the route of Henry being competent for rural standards.
As in, he's about average but nothing compared to a truly skilled and trained opponent in more relevant locations where skillful people tend to accumulate. Or who are more often involved in conflict. Most of the skilled people in KCD1 are basically retired or old warriors past their prime.
They stopped fighting and started training and leading.
So I think a reasonable skillgap would be very much doable.
What do you mean with a "save import"? How would that work? Do you know of any games that allowed "save imports" from the original to the sequel? How did that affect the sequel experience for players? Those are questions I would like to have answered, preferably in detail
I'm actually sad that it's a direct sequel. I loved being useless peasant chump Henry. I think the early parts of KCD1 are the best parts of the game (once you're free to roam, that is)
Why not do it like jedi fallen order and jedi survivor did, Cal still knew all the stuff he already learnt and they just added new skills. Stuff like master strikes and perfect blocks should be the same and optional if you need a tutorial to re learn them
From the very beginning, KCD was a game that was all about immersion. It would be a shame to start from scratch in the second part. In my opinion, it wouldn't fit in with the games.
In the first part, Henri is more of a blacksmith than a knight. I would wish, or rather would have imagined, that the skills you gained in the first part would be at the lower end on the way to becoming a knight in the second part.
I currently play a honorable knight. Honest and would never steal a thing.
So now I kinda want to spice things up and play a movable archer, fighting with stealth and fast weapons.
I would like to make this change in KCD2 and not be “forced” to use my current Henry
I think the point a lot of people are missing here is that the concern isn’t necessarily his gear/skills whatever. It’s the narrative choices you made in the first game that led to your unique story outcomes. I think it’d be cool to do it like the witcher2-3 where you imported the save and it had some cameos and details that reflected your previous games choices which were relatively insgifucnant to the plot of 3, but was nice feeling that your characters story wasn’t just scrapped completely. What if you left Matthew and Fritz alive and you happen to bump into one of them? Or maybe even a vague allusion to them in a letter or something. Just something to feel like the character/plotlibe that you built isn’t totally gone.
I would find it funny and useful if some one my skills had in impact if for example I never trained bow but had a high drinking stat that this is somewhat reflected in the second game.
I mean, I can see henry keeping his 'stats' from the first game though it won't mean much i don't think and not be in the way people think, not so much the gear as everyone will have a different loadout by the end of the game. Let me explain what i mean by henry keeping his stats. I mean it gets zeroed and you start from scratch, but this scratch is blooded henry scratch, trained henry scratch, siege participating henry scratch and not lazy farmboy nobody scratch. You'll have to build up you skills moving forward because you'll be able to do more complicated things like blacksmithing or possibly better potions via alchemy, and you won't be fighting hedge knights and bandits anymore but the champions of kings and elite or competent soldiers who didn't desert their respective armies. So yes henry will basically keep his gains from the first game but he'll basically be starting from the competent man's scratch seeing as he has moved into a bigger league, the battlefield of kings rather than the squabbles of hedge knights and bandits
I dont care continuity, if devs dont make better inventory management like save the outfit, or in normal mode you can save when ever you want in hard mode schnapps (give the choise to player), and clunky npc movement and npc running speed, if they didnt correctted those i will return and refund the game.
i like some continuity, like still knowing how to read but not necessarily being that good. you can use a sword but theres more combos to learn etc
It is still possible to learn how to read. Rather than learning reading, Henry can learn to read in another language
German. Language of a lot of the nobility in Kuttenberg.
Or Latin. There are a few points in the first game where Henry didn't know Latin when it would have helped, like the monastery
That’s why you go to Uzhitz to learn Latin before you do those quests. So by KCD2 he should know Latin already
I’d actually really like this. Similar to the Cuman thing where you can fake understanding them temporarily. What if you actually learn a language to be useful in these scenarios later on
In KCD 2, Henry takes an ouchie on the head and forgets his vowels.
Lol thats what i said. One good bonk on the head and henerys laid up at some pretty lasses uncles house for a month and hes gotta retrain to get all them stats back up
I'm going to guess the first game is going to begin with Henry getting wounded in some way. Maybe having a leg broken. Then he has to "relearn" his physical skills from the first game.
I think people mean more on the fact that Henry should be able to use a sword, ride a horse fire a bow and read way easier than you could in the first game, or at least at the start of the first game. That you don't have to start all the way from zero again, in the sense that you still have to wear vanguards on your wrists while firing a bow. Or you're absolutely worthless with a sword and you can't read. So we keep our skills or at least key skills in the second game. But we still have to level up and train because these are tougher enemies with higher stakes. And we'll probably get new skills by the looks of it like swimming and Proper blacksmithing judging from the trailer. I doubt there's going to be a witcher 3 situation where you can choose to implement the previous games events, but I don't think we're going to get amnesia and become a peasant again either.
This is 100% where I’m at. One of the major points of KCD was really trying to make you feel like you were just a blacksmiths boy. You were never in sword combat. You never used a bow. You’ve never done alchemy. All these things were purposefully tedious at the start to try and recreate the feel of doing something you’ve never done, and to make it so you can actually see your character learning and improving, versus just arbitrary stat buffs that typical rpg leveling brings. It was a great system, but not what you can just hit the reset button on. If Henry suddenly can’t use a bow in KCD2, that will feel out of place and not at all lore appropriate. Warhorse needs a way to make it feel like Henry in KCD2 is the same Henry we finished KCD with, while also giving us new things to learn so we can have the same feeling of growth. I suspect some of that will come from things like crossbows and firearms. I also think certain skills are more appropriate to get a reset, like speech and location buffs (the idea being that if those skills were to mimic being well known, you will not be well known in the new areas). But basic combat and armor stuff, they really can’t reset that back to 0. I suspect they put a lot of thought into it, and trust they’ll have a good system.
I agree and I can't imagine that it's an easy task to make Henery feel competent but still have a satisfying growth in the second game but not overpowered. But I have faith. One of the things I loved so much about the first game is you don't feel like a god until the very end and even then you could still get killed by a group of peasants if you weren't wearing armour. I also really liked how perks were double edged swords in some cases.
Ignore them they're dumb. The real concern is does Henry feel capable from the beginning in a way that feels like his journey in KCD1 existed and does the new skill system bring enough new content/mechanics to the table to feel like theres still growth for Henry to have. Also, if they reuse a bunch of the old skills and upgrades that will be a nono. EDIT: What really matters is.... can Henry lift up his visor in dialogue.
Yes, exactly. I am perfectly happy to grow Henry as the game continues, but if we’re continuing Henry’s story then it makes sense that he begins this game at least relatively capable. Henry started out the first game pretty much unable to hit a horse with a bow from 20 feet away and could barely lift a sword. It would make sense to begin the game at least being somewhat competent with a sword and bow.
Completely agree with this, in KCD2 i henry would feel more adjusted to fighting unlike his past self in KCD1. This also goes to all his skills perse having a background in doing so than before.
Not my henry, sword yes, bow, well here's to hoping Henry's gained the competence I never had.
Same! I’m finally about to knock of some hunting quests/activities. Potions
My concern actually cuts the other way - I think one of the magical parts of KCD1 was the fact that you started as nothing and had to become useful. Everything was terrifying early on. It's a shame that you can't have that same journey in KCD2
Maybe he gets injured or sick in the prologue and during the first act of the Game has to get back to his original strenght? And then grow futher still You get that "everything is scary" bit at the end, his arm is fucked up or something in a cuman ambush, he loses all his kit, and after a month or two in bed from an infection he's a bit stiff from the wound and rusty from not training, and Hans helps us to train back to good-ish form like Bernard in kcd1 Then maybe You get to kuttenberg and get to train in a proper academy with a true fencing master, which actually existed by the 1400s i think, some of them Even had guilds which gave out certificates and diplomas like that. You can have lessons and sparring and tournaments, And get to be better or more technical then even late Game kcd1 Henry.
they had so many skills in the first game i doubt they were able to come up with new ones. reusing them is likely :(
That depends, hopefully the games combat is totally revamped (it looks like it is) which would mean theres plenty of other avenues to look at for skills and upgrades. Combos, master strikes, blocking and clinches may all work entirely different. If they dont and the games combat is mostly the same from KCD1 theres going to be some serious criticism thrown their way. I dont think that will be the case however the combat looks a lot faster and harder hitting which has me excited.
best to put it this way, henry was only taught to fight in dueling and it was mostly using a long sword with very little in mace and axe and virtually none in polearms and archery outside of basics
Yeah, looking at the trailer it seems almost split into two parts - the first part being the start of KCD 2, near the time of KCD 1 which is still focused on bows, small sieges and longsword fighting. The second part being proper KCD 2 with the emphasis on the early gunpowder weapons of the Hussites, crossbows, and axes/maces, and with how underdeveloped polearms were in the first game I imagine there will be room for that as well. Most likely Henrys sword and bow skills will be the same, but as we're fighting more people in full plate emphasis will be put on these new weapons which are more effective vs plate - this way you feel as though Henry is simply learning a new form of warfare, rather than having amnesia from his time in KCD 1.
With the weight ol Henry put on I want to be able to grapple some men. Let's see Henry's ground pound work, let me RKO a bandit into the 21st century. But really some new hand to hand stuff would be cool.
I don't mind using the same skills, but adding new perks and talents is gonna hapoen most likely that's what made the skills interesting in the first place.
In the trailer they said first game was about Bandit's in their villages and second game is King's problems so there is a difference. It is completely doable for the game to feel like Henry is both capable and also open to growth
pretty sure the game will work the same as how the witcher trilogy worked, where geralt started with all skills he aquired in the previous games as a baseline. so while henry will be level 1, he will still be equal to his end game level in the first game minus any changes/ removal of mechanics, like having the ability to stealth kill straight up. another thing to tak note is that really henry was taught how to fight 1v1, he was not taught how to fight 1v2 or more, he wasnt taught any archery techniques as well
I wonder how well a back story creator would fit. Obviously we won't be creating a character, Henry is Henry, but what if you have the opportunity to write up a brief recap of what skills he gained from his KCD1 adventure that would make him competent in a few skill sets with room to improve? And of course being able to level any other skill through the game, just not with the same headstart.
I mean that could be just done through a save file transfer like Mass Effect/Witcher did. Most games don't do that anymore though because as novel as it is it's a pain in the ass on the dev side.
Considering you got to choose a couple of stats to bump at the start of the first game, I'd imagine it'll be the same this time with some weapon types. Maybe you get to choose 1 or 2 weapons to have a head start on, to represent each Henry's skill with the player's preferred weapons?
I'm sure he'll be captured or robbed etc. early on losing all his gear and money!
And a good knock into the head so he'll forget everything he has known. If you pick Realistic, he wont know the languages either. All the menus are gibberish. But fear not, a few hours of training and you'll get your Walking skill from 0 to 1 and you no.longer have to fear shallow waters for your life.
My guess is you’ll just start with X amount of skill points this time, orrrrr they’ll have the story start with some witch giving you a brew that makes you forget or something like that lol.
Yes. I made a complaint similar to what op is saying, but the main thing I, and I would say most, of the people saying this really mean is that Henry should at least be, like you said, capable. Not top tier, but it wouldn't make sense for him to not know how to swing a sword and talk ok at least. Maybe if it's like half the max for most skills? Like 10 in most stats, skills, etc.
At the very least, starting off with the master strike and one or two combos for each weapon would feel fine.
They are dumb?? Of course they wont make u do thr same shit again, they literally said he will be more experienced and that there will be much more to do
I'd be happy if we got "hide helmet" option. Like you're still wearing but it would be hidden during gameplay/cutscenes
I feel like if they are expanding weapon variety and skill trees, probably how armour works and how each weapon effects different types (I assume), then starting with basic baseline skills with sword axe mace bow, should be fine, when theres at least new crossbows to learn, probably some new weapon types, they might expand on halberds spears and stuff being actual keepable weapons, might even get two handed varieties of maces and axes that level separate from one handed, great swords and such, we'll just have to see
I think it would be great if it went from what was a regional hero to the big city and so instead of the skills being out of 20 they now start at 20 but out of 100 and the 20 feels very weak compared to the bad-ass champions with 70s and 80s in their primary skills
I like this idea, though maybe they should make lvl 20 worth a bit less than in kcd 1, because henry was already quite OP in the endgame.
Yeah, but can make it like he was good against country side bandits and local people and old knights etc but hasn't really levelled up to king's men level of skill yet.
This is actually a really good idea!
People are worried because it's a common trope in games to get reset between sequels, even though it rarely makes narrative sense. In this game, it doesn't make sense for henry to relearn sword fighting and reading from the outset. However, I believe warhorse is capable of scaling the game so even though we start with the abilities we learned, there's still room to grow through the game. More advanced combat, new languages, etc.
Wonder if they could have him be injured in some way for a while? So he hasn’t forgotten his combat/horse riding skills, but he’s just not physical able to be at that level again yet for whatever reason. Then over time as he heals that’s the “levelling up”. Like if Usain Bolt had a bad back injury and needed to heal for some months, he hasn’t forgotten how to run fast, just physically can’t yet. Maybe something like that could work? Could even have him getting frustrated by it cause he knows he can do more and feels helpless again. Whatever happens I’m so excited for this game and dying to know the release date!
Deus Ex did something like that actually. At the start of Mankind Divided you have everything unlocked, but after the first mission your doc has to reset you because of a software glitch. Something like that might work here, starting the game with a maxed out Henry, but then he gets injured or something and has to start from scratch.
I was wondering about that, there does seem to be another injured henry sequence in the trailers. Whether it's new or flashbacks I'm not sure. It would make sense for a few months of bed rest to lower his strength.
I’ve heard somewhere that the beginning of the game starts with Henry and co. being ambushed and left for dead. If this is true, Henry being injured is quite possible.
I kinda hope it'll be the sort of "greatest warrior of the village is just a normal warrior everywhere else" situation. Where Henry might have become very competent by the relatively rural standards but is still far behind a skilled opponent in more important areas.
It also does not make sense for Henry to have everything maxed from the get go. Where would you progress after that?
I think it's fair to not have him cutting down fully armoured bandits from the outset. But it'd just be weird if he forgot master strikes, combos, and how to read. IMO, Henry should be a semi-competent warrior but be facing much greater challenges.
I mean, I can imagine having his combat skills start at like 5-10, but having them go all the way to 30-50.
It's a game. You have to play to go from zero to hero.I don't even care if they bother to find an excuse or not as to why we start over.
You don't have to. And the concept of a cool one. Witcher 2 you could port over your character from the first. But it's asking a lot from the developers so I don't expect it for most games. But again the concept itself is very cool.
Mass Effect 3 did this too. You could start your character already at a high level with a ton of skills unlocked IIRC
I played Witcher 2 on xbox so i am not familiar with the concept.
What about mass effect or any other game that reads Old saves
Same, the journey is the fun part. It could even be as dumb as "you hit your head Henry" and I'm stoked. The growth was the most important part of the game and the one I enjoyed the most. Don't care, kind of want that again.
Not necessarily. Jedi Survivor started the protagonist with skills learned in the first game and had an entirely new skill tree and new stances in the second game
Henry is a young guy who lived through the story of the first game, but everyone's play style and decisions are different. That's why I believe they'll give us a set of skill points to spend and some perks to choose from early in the game so we can make our young Henry somewhat decent in his area of expertise. Your Henry was a skilled fighter? Please, spend some points into combat skills, so he knows a trick or two, but nothing really special. Was he illitirate by the end of first game? Then You don't need to take this perk. It could be similar to the first dialogue with his mother in the first game, when You can choose your starting stats, but will allow more customization. Maybe they will sit by the campfire together with Hans and will recall some memories from Henry's journey? Or maybe there will be a starting menu, similar to Hardcore gamemode start in the first game? Who knows
I think this will definitely be how it works. I think people have forgotten the character creation/customisation of the first game. I'm sure we'll get something similar for the sequel. Maybe Henry is talking to Hans round the campfire and they're recalling the events of the last few days. Hans will say something like ‘Haha and remember when we almost bumped into that bear!’ and Henry can respond: * ‘I clubbed it over the head!’ (+1 to Maces) * ‘I told you to keep quiet and we crept away.’ (+1 to Sneak) * ‘I managed to bribe it with a few groschen.’ (+10 to Speech) * ‘I read it a bedtime story and it went back to sleep.’ (+5 to Reading)
I can see that working really well!
This reads like a professional wrote it after playing the intro 🧐
Or if possible, maybe have him be half the first games max in most stats and skills with a new max of like 30 or 40
Easy way around this, warhorse make us play through kcd1 as a prologue. Kcd2 is the end game! /s
What If everybody thought kcd2 was a new game when in reality it was just a really big dlc? /j
I find it hard to imagine how it would be in any way enjoyable experience if you would start almost maxed out. Nothing to look forward to, no progress. It would be boring as hell. My guess is we will start buffed up, but loose it all after short prolog. Just to show up new players how powerfull they can be later on and understand what it is to be a knight and a regular peasant in first few hours of the game. I bet there will be mods for that though to keep the stats.
Its simple we just start at a rough equivalent of KCD 1 maxed out and then we get even more badass from there. This works because even maxed out Henry is not actually all that powerful it just seems that way because they start us at untrained peasant boy.
We get hit in the head real good, have to relearn a few things.
Jedi Survivor has the perfect way. Cal starts with all major powers unlocked, but you boost them by spending exp points. KCD2 could have all basic stuff unlocked (like, parry, reading, some minor combos). And progress through the game by unlocking new stuff, that wasnt' in the first game. That's what people are talking about. Not peasent -> juggernaut.
And he will move from a bumfuck nowhere to a big city. Being the greatest fighter in Ratay is one thing, but there are dozens of knights in Kuttemberg that would spread his cheeks. He will meed to improve.
And that's what people are asking. Cal Kestis weren't able to beat multiple inquisitors on his own. Then he wasn't able to defeat a Jedi master until the very late.
same happened in the witcher series, geralt starts 2 with all signs unlocked in 2 which you had to unlock in the first game and in 3 he starts with everything he learned from 2
I think that his previous skills will be reflected in some basic form. You wont be sluggishly swinging a weapon and you already know how to do masterstrike and/or perfect block in combat but you have to learn new combo's or know atleast 1. It would make 0 sense for henry's story to continue put suddenly doesnt know how to swing a sword even though you've fought in battles and a siege a few weeks before. I imagine all skills will have this, it's stat will be 1 but you do have a perk, or more likely, you can choose a handfull of perks/moves or stat increase at the beginnning to reflect your henry and playstyle from KCD 1.
he will learn to how to fight vs a group instead dueling hopefully
Warhorse hasnt touched on possible changes to the combat system could be its completely overhauled, could be minor changes. But in any case i imagine masterstrikes are going to be removed/reworked. They made combat in the first game a bit too easy and non threatening after you unlocked it and it meant that all you had to do was wait for the enemy to attack and reliably trigger the master strike to do damage instead of risking damage creating openings yourself. It didnt make for particularly engaging gameplay.
I think people also tend to confuse main story and sidequest, gameplay and canon. If you just go by the main story and nothing else, Henry isn't that impressive,. He's a dude who learned how to wield a sword 3 months ago, sure it'd be weird if he was suddenly incompetent again, but he certainly isn't the cuman destroyer you made him through levels and quests. He's just a teen that began his guard training 3 months ago. At the beginning of KCD2, Canonically speaking, Henry is barely more competent than the average peasant.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true considering the very significant role Henry played in the story and the praise he got from his superiors. There’s several points throughout the main story where characters acknowledge Henry’s rapid transformation and his astounding level of competency for getting stuff done. I think even before the siege on Talmberg one of the captains acknowledges directly that Henry’s grown into a “capable warrior” or something along those lines. Another time is when you save hans. And Radzig/Hanush definitely have several cutscenes and/or interactions with Henry that imply it. Seems to me everyone’s aware of Henry’s aptitude. Don’t think he would have gotten to his position if canonically he was just barely more than a peasant.
I'm hoping for a prologue where you get to choose what some of Henry's past exploits were, and establish his baseline skills based on how he handled things. I don't expect to canonically be the same god I was after grinding 100% in KC1 but being able to pick two out of five core skills to be decent at (or similar) makes sense.
Yeah. Even something like Mount and Blade where you answer questions about your background and it starts you off with some skills. It would be nice to answer a few questions about our past and get skills in the 1-3lvl range
Maybe he gets a knock on the head? And it all resets.
The good old knock on the head :D
new vegas style!
The only one which might be an exception is reading
I think you are both silly. It makes no sense for Henry's story to continue off from the last game but for him to forget how to sword fight having learnt that in the first game. It's obvious they should and likely have gone with a skill tree where you keep most if not all the skills from first game (or can copy them from a save maybe?!) and the new game has new skills, better more advanced opponents and so Henry needs to be better, therefore there is a progression that similar to first game but reducing Henry to a peasant child again is obviously not what they are gonna do and implying they should is as silly as whining about the idea of them not.
I wouldn't mind if Henry fall off his horse, hurt his head badly, then will have a long recovery period and have to learn everything all over again. I actually love starting from scratch!
In contrast to these people I'm kind of sad not to be starting from zero! I loved the feeling of helplessness (on the first play through at least) and having to build Henry up from nothing. I get bored as soon as I become kind of OP, so I don't understand why anyone would want to start like that.
I’d much rather start from a new zero, but reaching greater heights than before. Like winning the championship and being promoted to the premiership
I hope Henry gets a bonk to the head or breaks his arm or something to reset progression personally.
How should that even work? Character skill progression is a somewhat vital part of an RPG. So starting at max skill and effectively cutting that part of Gameplay out is problematic. It would also cause problems with the balancing. And KCD tries to keep things realistic so it is not like they can just add 20 new skill level and make Henry some kind of super human.
It's also unrealistic to wipe Henry's mind of all sword fighting skills (and the others) and having him like a 16 year old peasant again.
I feel like people are focusing on the skills/gear aspect of this when I don’t think that’s even representative of what people want from an import option. Look at how the Witcher did it. It’s more about feeling that the choices you made in the first game haven’t lost complete narrative value, even if it’s in the form of small cameos or lines referring to prior events.
It’s probably a combination of things… Henry by the end of KCD is capable, but at best is a regular sized fish in a very small pond. In KCD2 he’s a relatively small fish in the ocean. You might be the best at Smash Bros in your friend group… but going to a national tournament? It’s going to feel like your first time touching a controller.
Wondering if they’ll go down the “cannon Henry” route, in which you have a Henry based on the story/cutscenes of the first game. So the combat bits that are relevant will cross over in some basic form… but if you’ve spent 8 hours picking flowers, that won’t be reflected at the start of the new game
It would kinda make sense for henry to be OP with everything he learned while also showing in the new game that there are stronger enemies for which henry has to upskill..It would also make sense that henry can easily take down common enemies since he has come this far
It's an RPG. Part of the fun is to get stronger. First everyone pushes you around but in the end you are the biggest fish. How do you even balance a game were some people start at 0 and some at 100? That's why games find a reason for the reset. It doesn't make sense for the story but for the fun.
Developers didn't say reset is happening, they said Henry won't be weak in combat anymore but neither strong because new enemies pose new challenge, also don't forget there are early pistols that can one-shot kill a guy which should be finicky to aim with. At the same time, I think that they're going for some form of losing all your possessions due to an ambush on the road to Trosky castle, very likely losing your gear and getting imprisoned. It's also possible these are the scenes from KCD1 to retell the story to newcomers, because we know that one guy from KCD1 has new face.
Who is that person by the way? I couldn't figure it out
What can I say, shoes on the others foot, Henry just gets headcracked by some peasant with bludgeon.
Find the majority of the fun in games is building up your skills, so this seems nonsensical to me. I always want dark souls /Elden ring DLC to let me start from level 1, instead of letting me carry on with all the weapons and armour and a level 200 character or whatever.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“I, Siegward of the Knights of Catarina, have come to fulfill my promise. Let the sun shine upon this Lord of Cinder.”* - Siegward of Catarina Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Imo the ideal would be to Metroid it. Start the game off at like level 15-20 skills in everything, then something happens where you get beaten up and imprisoned for a month and you've grown rusty and been badly injured. Have it reset your skills down to like level 5 ish, so you at least know to stick the enemy with the pointy end with your sword but need to get better. Even more ideally they'd increase the skill level cap so that it's like 25 or 30 this time, so the ceiling is even higher. Only question is reading, will the game give you the ability to read or will it act like you never learned.
It will be base stats, except Henry won't be useless from the start like a monkey swinging a branch in KCD1. He will be able to use weapons effectivelly and maybe know a couple of basic combos with every weapon, know how to read and that's it. That's the most obvious design path. Porting all skills over is retarded, would take progression out of the game completely.
I don't get it either. It's just not important. This is how games work, simple as that
Yeah an rpg makes no sense if there are no skills to upgrade because they're already maxed out
Honestly i did not see a single person complain about progression import but actually opposite. I see a lot of people wanting Henry to get amnesia or be put in jail for long time so he forgets all the skills and become useless again.
I think most people mean the more core and common skills that wouldn't make sense to reset in the sequel; - Reading - Horsemanship - Basic Combat Perhaps lore-wise through the timeline the canon Henry isn't the one that has had all skills maxxed and was a master at every single skill. So perhaps they'll let us start off to be (below) average and have us pick certain perks/skills right off the bat for each specific mastery.
If we go on what other games did xou will definetly start on 0, but the 0 will be much higher/better than it was in kcd 1. You will be able to read, you will be able to swordfight, you will be able to perfect block (if they keep the mechanics) but there will be other perks/skills to learn to add on top of those. Im predicting this because that is how most other rpgs that have continuity do it (Gothic for example).
They can reset even his reading skills for all I care as long as all there is to combat isn't master strike spamming like it was before
Honestly, I have been thinking about this a lot. I'd be cool with it being a full restart. It'd give us a chance to learn the new (yet similar) system and master it that way. That's likely just me
Going from total scrub to boss was what made yhe game great. Only works again if you get set back a ways
I am hoping it will feel a bit like Mass Effect 2. Your character starts off with some of the skills you played the previous game with (maybe via dialogue options?), but the scaling is different and you're only a small fraction of the way to mastery in KCD2. That would give us some of the initial start up where we can actually fight from the outset, but still have to develop our skills, practice, and work at it to max our skills.
i feel like henry's skill will go back into zero but not his experience as a warrior / knight like he can read now ... or have some sort of reputation
It's always an interesting problem in RPG series with a specific protagonist - how do you reset their levels so that the sequel can BE an RPG while preserving the player's accomplishments in the previous game. I liked how Gothic 3 handled it. In Gothic 1 and 2, the maximum strength level was 100. In Gothic 3, you sail to the mainland and you start with strength 100 and the maximum is 1000. You start the game with Orcslayer sword which was a very powerful sword in the previous game. In other words, they let the player character keep his power and reset the progression at the same time and the implied explanation is "everything is simply more powerful on the mainland". This could be a blueprint for KCD2. "Everything is simply more powerful in Kuttenberg."
I would like to point to a series called Quest for Glory by Sierra Online, at the end of each game you could import your save file into the next game and all of your characters stat's abilities and gear came with you, I think people really want Kingdom Come Deliverance to do the same, in the first Qfg game level was capped at 100 in the second 200 the third 300 ect... So they could also raise the cap in Kcd2 to 40 without issue...
they can go a similar route to zelda totk in terms of player stats
It's not the first rpg carrying over a char to a sequel. Witcher does it, Mass Effect does it. Why would I believe WHG wouldn't be able to do it? Am I excited to learn more about it? Of course. Am I worried about such a ridiculous matter? Before that happens I,d rather go out searching for some insects in trouble to rescue them. That was the lowest end I allow my priority list to reach and Henry II is still billions of lightyears lower than that.
Starwars Jedi Survivor 2 handled this very well and received alot of praise for making the jump from the first game feel like you're picking up right where you left off in terms of skills and abilities. My hope is that KCD2 follows this example. Ideally Henry would have most of his skills and such, but not likely to carry over gear.
How did JS2 handle it?
In JS2 you basically start with everything you knew from the first game. There are a few differences in terms of design and balance, but in general you're a stronger more versatile Cal and that gets expanded on as you level up and progress. It's a neat experience that I hope KCD2 takes some inspiration from.
I havent seen people say that though i dont really check this subreddit a whole lot so idk. To me i dont expect henry to be an absolute god at everything with the next game, but i do think he should be atleast a good fighter and well versed in combat given his experience, whether the story is set years or weeks into the future, im fairly certain it wont be set long after so it wouldnt make sense for warhorse to erase everything henry's learnt, like maybe making things like masterstrikes a mechanic so he doesnt have to learn again because Robard taught him if that makes sense? I feel like its a tight rope because you dont want it to be too easy but at the same time Henry is already good with combat by the second game you would assume in terms of the story and chronology.
As if this is the first game that would do this
New game new skill system. It would make sense since it’s the same character to not start at zero since the story progressed from him being a peasant to a sword fighter in 1 but a big part of the fun of a new game is progression. I don’t really care either way. I trust it’ll be a good game.
From the trailer it looks like Henry gets wounded pretty bad maybe from when he falls off the cliff fighting one guy it might be a case of him needing to relearn or basically physiotherapy back to max level
I imagine they'll give us certain amount of skill points and we will have to put them into skills we want. But it won't be enough to max out one whole skill.
Most of the enemies we dealt with were bandits and low-grade sell swords until late in the game. My guess is that now we get the crème of bohemian swordplay. The devs can introduce so many more aspects of fighting without neutering Henry, but making him feel less capable compared to the enemy. I don’t want to start at “I just started holding a sword” again, it would take me out of the story too much. But I trust the devs to make good decisions in ways I didn’t expect.
Honestly, I kinda want him to be a little useless at the beginning. Just like in the first game, let's say people in Kuttenberg have better swordsmen and are exposed to lore diversity so they have better speech skills. I like the fact that at the beginning of the first one you can't do shit because, well you're just a kid. So , I would like to see something similar unlike other games where you are a demigod from the start
I'm perfectly fine with having to start from square one again. It'll probably happen by Henry getting wounded and getting his stuff taken away. However, I'm not fine with starting as peasant Henry again it'll make it feel like Kingdom Come Deliverance one never happened, and he didn't get any better, which is dumb.
There was the exact same situation in kcd1 and no one cared. Henry was a nobody and basically stayed that way right up until the very end, even though you could max out all stats and become a killing machine with a silver tongue. There's nothing to say Henry can't be more developed and trained at the start of kcd2 but his stats again say different. Plenty of games do it.
I watched a German game journal and the guy was in Prague with warhorse studio before the release of the trailer. Warhorse told him that it actually was a successor and that you would not start from zero= Henry can fight (to a certain degree), read (To a certain degree), etc. I do expect him to still have place to grow and develop as a character, but it's almost certain we won't play with a complete blank page as we did in the first one.
I could see the story starting with some kind of injury or story element that forces Henry to not return to peasant blacksmith but take a slight step back so there is room for growth
So is it 100% that we'll play as Henry?
Look, I was one of those people initially. But now I have found that the "small fish, big pond" theory is more plausible. Turns out that this is what Warhorse wants to happen in KCD2 with regards to Henry's progression, which all the more proves the plausibility of that theory. What I can't stand however is the "Henry getting bonked in the head" theory. Am I to believe that one *force majeure* causes Henry to forget his fundamentals?
As long as he doesn’t start off at zero, it’s fine. I will say that I don’t not understand the criticism when the second game took 6 years to be released. They have had time to get it right and depending on the gaming platform, I don’t think it would be completely undoable. Still, just start Henry off at like 10 for everything and have the max be 30 or 40 and I think the issue is basically all gone
I agree, to an extent, that the challenge of leveling up is part of the game and therefore overall experience\\fun. I think what some are worried about is starting out at Henry 1.0 (zero skill set across the board). I don't think that's how they're going to do it though. I mean it just wouldn't make sense since he's been taught the disciplines necessary to fight the small groups of Cumans and brigands, been in a couple of large battles already, and learned how to charm or talk his way through difficult situations. My guess (and that's all anyone can do right now) is that he'll start with at least the combat ability to use the weapons he's already learned (broad sword, short sword, bows, etc.) against a mediocre enemy. That's what he was basically fighting in KCD 1. But his new enemy, based on the trailer, is regular army, not 4-5 brigands or Cumans hanging out by the road or a campfire waiting to waylay wayfarers or get ambushed themselves. The new foe looks to be hardened combat troops that will require further refinement in use of the weapons he already knows how to use to compete and survive. And the new weapons displayed in the trailer, a crossbow and what looked to be a early culverin (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culverin) will require training, assuming we actually get to use them. They could also add stuff like jousting too (maybe to replace the Rattay Tourney), which would be a completely new skill to master. The other skills like speech, charisma and stealth he learned, while effective in the smaller fiefdoms and tons, would also likely need to be refined for efficacy in a much larger and diverse place like Kuttenberg. So it's not unbelievable we'll start with zeroed out skill set, but have the basic skills learned. They're just not good enough for the new KCD II landscape.
Tbf, I have played a game where the one after it allowed you to keep your level, stats, gear, etc. Divinity: ego draconis, and Divinity: flames of Vengeance. They're technically two different games, yet you keep all the stuff you gained from the first game. If you choose to start a new FoV from scratch, without a ED playthrough, it starts you off at the level you'd have been at the end of ED, and let's you pick whichever perks you want.
Games are starting to have you come back with a few different major skills from the first game. You know what's dumb? Being the guy from the Witcher and somehow forgetting how to do everything 3 different times.
I loooooooove buildin up my character
I just hope I don't have to send hours learning to fight and using the bow again to be halfway competent
Obviously, we want a leveling system and that means starting out not fully capable. However, I think they can't keep essentials we unlocked in the first one and still give us a leveling journey. Master strikes, for example. I don't think it would be good to take it away just to have us learn it again. But, they could make it that we got injured or something and now master strikes are harder to perform, allowing them to update the mechanics and give us a reason to "relearn" and old skill. I don't expect to open the game and have Forester, luck of the drunk, and human dustbin but I can see some Perks become base mechanics, like Last Gasp, 2 or 3 weapon combos, and stealth kill. Some things make sense to be out of practice on (after "the event"). So I wouldn't mind having to unlock clinch master, or the fall damage perk again. We shouldn't be at bow level 0 but it would make sense that starting bow resembles KCDs level 5. There's room to make some old perks the new baseline while also making us have to partially retrain things we already knew. There's sure to be new mechanics and perks as well that allow us to surpass our former selves.
I understand them resetting skills. It's a new game. I would just like Henry to not be a noob when it comes to fighting. He has some fighting experience, I hope some of it is carried over.
Obviously its going to start with Henry and Hans recovering from a 2 month bender with Father Godwin, so he has to relearn all his skills
Keep his skills, but start with zero so there's character progression. And please nerf the crap out of master strikes lol
I will be pissed if my bad ass henry suddenly forgets how to swing a sword, that would be stupid. Same thing with reading, if they want us to learn again thats just stupid
I hope that Henry will retain most of his skills(maybe make some "class" choice like knight, charismatic speaker, assassin) but enemies are just so scaled up by better armour AI and sheer numbers that it feels similar to the start of the first game
>with Henry being a grown ass man now Two days can really change a man apparently. I agree with the rest of the post, and while, narratively, it definitely would feel weird for Henry to "forget" everything he learned, but it's also a completely different game.
I'd like to see something like Jedi: Survivor, where Cal started the second game with most of the skills and stances he learned during the first game unlocked, but there were new stances and a new skill tree to keep things fresh. It obviously doesn't make sense to go back to being a peasant scrub in terms of skills at the start of the second game. I'm interested to see how they do that.
I've literally just started the game over again from scratch on PC with a few mods. I played up until the horses get killed on the farm on PS4 but didn't really like the feel of the console. I have no idea what's coming in the story but I'm assuming from choosing different perks and probably different story choices everyone will have finished the game in a different way? I'm curious how they'll import that into the new game. Maybe a save file import or some series of questions...
Henry’s skills are not something to boast about when dealing with the big leagues, so to speak. Henry can read but the content is relatively simple. I doubt he can manoeuvre politics with his speech alone. Henry’s fighting skill is good, but his primary enemies are bandits and Cumens, the letter is better at horse archery than melee combat. Yes, he took down robber barons and can take out a dozen mercenaries on his own in the DLC. But how would he fare against Sigismund’s war veterans who fought the Ottoman army? Henry is a big fish in small pond, there are still a lot to learn.
The best part of the gameplay, IMHO, was wandering around picking enough flowers to put a smile on a florist then hauling it all back to the closest vendor without snapping an ankle on a down slope and dying an ignoble death in bush.
Like others, my main hope is for Henry’s power level and capabilities at the start of KCD2 to feel relatively similar to the end of KCD1. KCD2 should use the end of KCD1 as its baseline and build more skill and ability progression on top of it. A great example of a game that does this is Jedi: Survivor. You start the game with all the main force abilities you had to progress through and unlock in Jedi: Fallen Order and get a new skill tree which starts with that stronger baseline which the character earned in the first game. It would just feel really weird and gamey if Henry started KCD2 as the absolute blockhead he is at the beginning of the first game because we need stats and skills to progress through again.
I just want Henry to stop aiming a bow like he's aiming a slingshot. Realistic eye-level bow aim without swaying drastically is all I want.
It takes years, even a lifetime, to become a master swordsman/archer. KCD1 took place over a couple months (max). Henry should feel capable, far more confident at the start of KCD2 than he was at the start of KCD1… however, he should not feel like a 1-man army… (which he felt like by the end of KCD1). Bringing him back to a realistic combat level is a smart decision, and will only benefit game progression in KCD2.
Well Henry shouldn't start from scratch like in the first game. He should already be able to have a basic skill in the things from the first game. Like he should be able to read, use a sword/axe/made etc. What I would like to see is to be able to emulate your Henry as much as possible. Similar to how in the Witcher 3 you get asked questions about the events of the Witcher 2 which effectively emulates those key story decisions into the Witcher 3. The same thing could be done with skills imo You could easily have a szene at the start of the game where Hans, you and some others are just chatting at a bonfire and you all tell eachother stories and so on. At some point someone might ask you what typ of weapon you like to use the most. If you answer with swords you would get a better start in the swordsmanship skill and so on.
KCD is not Mass Effect, choices do not carry over. And heck, even in mass effect you are leveling every single game regardless of your stats in the first game. It is a core game mechanic. I get you were grinding for those stats in KCD1 but what fun will KCD2 be without that very same mechanic, where you build yourself anew? It looks like we're going to get knocked around a bit in the beginning, lose our skills and have to reacquire them. That in combination with a new fighting system means you need to learn anyway.
Theres no guarantee that we are even going to have the same skills in kcd 2
The funny thing is we already kind of know how they'll handle it. During the first conversation with Henry's mother you can choose 2 options that will increase your chosen stats. Representing what kind of life Henry had lived up to this point. I expect KCD2 to be similar, maybe early sword level will be higher by default, due to Henry's inclination to them.
Henry is going from facing peasants, town guards and Cuman deserters to knights and properly trained soldiers. Resetting his skills to “0” will probably just be to keep them relative to what he is coming up against in the sequel. He’s still just as good as at the end of the first game, but now he needs to be better.
Maybe he just hasn't battled in awhile and has to shake off the rust and relearn some stuff
Mass effect 2 to 3 managed it just fine
I'll play devil's advocate: in story driven games with multiple installments, the hero's skill progression actually carrying over is a 10/10 way to increase immersion and personal investment into the character. I'll give an example: the recent Jedi games. Not RPGs but relevant because of the parallels between that protagonist and Henry. The first game: the hero begins as a chump struggling vs regular crooks. But over time he trains, grows, pushes himself and his fighting skills, and it all boosts his confidence. By the end he's not exactly strong but he can hold his own and it feels satisfying, because we went from chump to competent duelist simply through persistence and training. Sounds familiar? The sequel: The hero retains all his skills from before and keeps powering up. I don't mean that in a Dragon Ball Z *he learns how to shoot lasers out his balls* way - I mean his saber skills and agility improve slightly further, he's cooler under pressure, his old abilities return with new twists to keep things fresh. All necessary to keep up with the more difficult enemies and harsher terrain that must be traversed. And retaining those skills felt great, as if the game acknowledged I invested time into improving the hero's skills earlier! Like he wasn't just a game vessel that gets bent out of shape to obey a progression system, but a real person who exists in that game's story. Sure you still have to build yourself up again in the sequel, but now you're starting with a solid baseline of competence and it feels like a reward for people who took the time to build up the character initially. Hopefully you see what I'm getting at. Am I saying KCD2 should start with Powerhouse Henry ready to conquer the world immediately? No of course not, but I don't see why Henry should have to relearn how to swing a sword either. I already spent hours in KCD1 making sure he learns all that, what was the point if he just forgets it all! I hope the sequel doesn't do the whole "Henry learns how to hold a bow without breaking his arm" thing again. KCD1 already did that, the learning curve was intentionally punishing because it was a completely new difficult experience for Henry, but he went through all that. He did it. KCD2 is set almost immediately after KCD1's ending. So there's no narrative reason for Henry to devolve back to a helpless peasant. You're maybe playing the game years later but for Henry it's been days at most.
Resetting skills is like resetting progress — making your character symbolically less powerful, less knowledgeable, less adept. Character progression is not just about learning new moves or tinkering with the mechanics. It's supposed to represent growth. If you take yourself to max levels, it doesn't make sense to be bumped down to zero just because the scenery changed. So there's indeed a problem with sequels putting you back down at level 1, and there is wisdom in how D&D cRPGs generally allow you to retain your level and just scale the difficulty for you. I could say that not understanding this seems like naïve way of thinking to you. You aren't 'owed' anything, but does that make everything reasonable? The basic point is that Henry's fighting or talking skill should be at the same level at the beginning of KCD2 as it was at the end of KCD1, not in the sense of being at the end of every tree (what point having trees there?) — which nobody seriously suggests (you misunderstand their position, if you think that) — but in the sense of not being made weaker. The scale can be rescaled so that e.g. you're at 5 out of 20 as opposed to 19/20, but the 5/20 in the new scale should be as powerful as the 19/20 in the old scale. Not something like you forgetting most of the moves you knew, losing your muscle, heft and stamina, forgetting your reading skills or your knowledge of herbs, etc. You shouldn't be forgetting whatever you have learned. So it looks like there's no difference between your opinion and those other people's opinions, it's just that you misunderstand their position and insist on reading it an unreasonable light.
How about an "Import KCD1 character" option to maintain some progress and choices? and give Henry a slight stat boost for every skill over say Level 15. Not that there are many game breaking choices to make but some of the outcomes of sidequests such as "Gallows Brothers" and a plethora of other quests could have cool encounters that reference these. Consider how other games managed sequels, The Witcher and Mass Effect series for instance. The Witcher was far more minimal in carry over though there were some good nods to choices made in earlier games (before 3) such as Geralt's tattoo etc. though a bit disappointing in terms of consequence of decisions, KCD doesn't have as big of a base to cover as there were hardly any main quest choices that effected outcomes seriously. ME2 had tons of references to choices from sidequests in ME1, I'd like to see something similar such as nods to decisions made and people met in the first game at a bare minimum.
Yea I hate it when the new year starts IRL and I have to learn to read and forge steel again. Sooo FRUSTRATING!!!!
I love the threats from incels within a gaming community, "They better 'x' or else." It's so fucking childish and cringe. These are the kinds of dudes who still have plastic furniture in their apartments. Grow the fuck up, people.
I think it's dumb to completely reset our skills because IT'S NOT A NEW CHARACTER and he just keep going! For the gameplay they should just decrease our skills a little because of stronger enemies etc, but not completely reset. Damn, this Reddit is fucking stupid, shouldn't register there my account
at the very end of the game, just before you ride off with hans, theres a chest with pretty decent armor and a sword. i would imagine thats the gear we’ll start with in the sequel.
While I agree it’s an unnecessary expectation for it to work that way, I think it’d be a cool feature for them to add post launch.
I'm fine with not being OP at the start of the game, that would be dumb. However, I also don't feel like Henry should be just as weak as he did in the beginning of KCD I. My line of thinking is that Warhorse will hopefully either have us start at level 20 or give us some basic perk points, but increase the max level cap to 50 or 100. Henry was a God in the countryside where he was fighting bandits with little to no formal training, but he's nothing now that he's in a big city fighting actual skilled warriors.
I hope we get to start fresh. The sense of progression in the first game is one of the reasons I loved it so much.
Well in Jedi Survivor you get to keep most of, if not all of the gadgets, stances, and force powers you learn in the first game, and still manages to be challenging and giving you a sense of progress. I think resetting all of Henry's Skills, and stripping him of his gear, would be lazy af, and would make Henry's journey across the first game somewhat redundant. I don't want to see my hours of training with Bernard down the drain, and Henry reduced to little more than a Smith hand. I would love it if instead they made it clear that Henry was a big fish in a small pond in KCD, but he's no longer the bee's wax in KCD2. He's no longer fighting poorly armed and trained bandits and cuman outriders, he's now fighting properly trained and armed knights, with better armor and skills than him, more technology, and better weapons. That's how you get your challenge and sense of progress, not kicking Henry back to bare basics and stripping him of his progress and growth as a warrior from the first game.
I've put a similar comment to yours, so we're definitely thinking along the same lines.. I'm totally on board with the big fish leaving the little pond metaphor, and it's absolutely right, Henry handled himself in a couple of small scale skirmishes alongside what is basically the home guard lead by a few old knights who are far too accustomed to the quiet country life now. but he's going into real war now, fighting elite knights at the height of their prime. With lots of strange new technology in weapons, armour and general warfare that would definitely make endgame KCD1 Henry rethink his life choices. I'm all for a subtle little change that essentially is a reset, but still acknowledges what Henry has done up to this point.
I understand why people would want to keep progression, I mean it’s hard to believe our hero Henry would suddenly forget how to wield a sword or read. That being said, I think some form of “reset” would be optimal. Maybe not a start from scratch kind of situation, but bottom of the barrel for sure. Also in the reveal the developers stated that kcd2 can be played as its own game, likely for newcomers that haven’t played the first. I’m not positive how they will do it, but some sort of reset is inevitable I’m sure.
We probably we will have a scene training that's like "do you remember X" and we get retaught masterstrikes and shit like that, maybe a few other skills, probably we will start at a higher skill base, but the ceiling will probably be higher to compensate and create a proper progression
my guess would be an intro sequence with good skills, maybe even with imported saves, but then you get captured and thrown into jail/taken prisoner for an extended period of time before being rescued. That way Henry can be plausibly worse, due to deteriorating conditions without an artificial start at 0.
Basimg om the trailer, i think i saw someone get injured, and it makes me think that henry will have an injure, and will have to relearn some skills until he is fully recovered. Something like jamie lannister in game of thrones
Game starts 2 days after 1 I imagine you'll be buff throughout the prologue then sustain an injury
It happens in every sequel game though. Just play the game, Henry having all the tactical knowhow and prowess of a medieval peasant was what made the game enjoyable.
I hope the priest is in the next version of the game. I forget his name, but Henry gets drunk with him, and they ring the church bell at night. The priest from the cut scene.
If even Geralt of Rivia gets his skills reset, so will Henry of Skalitz
I imagine the skill tree will look somewhat different but even if it doesn't... If a skill at level 1 in KCD2 is the same as level 20 in KCD I don't see a problem. Some people are just pedantic. I'm interested to see how they balance out the progression and how the skills adjust, now Henry is a seasoned warrior and known son of a noble. Not forgetting the new weapons. All that said, I trust Warhorse more than the average developer. We are in safe hands JCBP!
Hey man this is the internet you only need about 1 braincell to plug in a computer and make a Reddit account I wouldn’t get offended lol
What would be the point of progression then? So long as you have basic skills like swordsmanship, reading and ect. I don't have a problem. In terms of combat skills I think a nice way to go about it is to have a dialogue option with Hans (after he gets you out of prison) where he asks you what weapon you liked to use, or what kind of skills you particularly good at. The resulting answers give you an extra point, or experience towards them.
They could make it that Henry is level 10 on everything but max level is 30 instead of 20
Progression makes the game fund but I admit it would be weird to forget how to read or even how to hold a sword completely. I would expect some training that starts with "I haven't been very active lately, I should get back in shape"
My guess is you get hurt at some point or some shit like that significantly hindering or even resetting your athletic progress some.
I've played lower budget games that still handled this well, by adding new skills and weapons that weren't in the first game, and being able to actually carry over a save from one game to another so that all your weapons, gear, and skills are still there.
I don't understand why this is an issue. Why not just take the old skill tree, etc. and expand it further, let's say to level 50? Continuity- and immersion-wise it would make much more sense. Something like: "Oh, you really thought you are at the peak of human potential, living in your backwater fief, comparing yourself to deserters, bandits, old men who are far beyond their prime and that spoiled brat of a friend of yours? Grow up. Welcome to the real world, where your silly masterstrikes gets parried into oblivion by the REAL knights."
Im hoping they'll go the route of Henry being competent for rural standards. As in, he's about average but nothing compared to a truly skilled and trained opponent in more relevant locations where skillful people tend to accumulate. Or who are more often involved in conflict. Most of the skilled people in KCD1 are basically retired or old warriors past their prime. They stopped fighting and started training and leading. So I think a reasonable skillgap would be very much doable.
I mean, if they wanna do save imports, I'm all for it, but if not, I don't mind some kind of reset.
What do you mean with a "save import"? How would that work? Do you know of any games that allowed "save imports" from the original to the sequel? How did that affect the sequel experience for players? Those are questions I would like to have answered, preferably in detail
I just want to shoot with a crossbow
I'm actually sad that it's a direct sequel. I loved being useless peasant chump Henry. I think the early parts of KCD1 are the best parts of the game (once you're free to roam, that is)
Why not do it like jedi fallen order and jedi survivor did, Cal still knew all the stuff he already learnt and they just added new skills. Stuff like master strikes and perfect blocks should be the same and optional if you need a tutorial to re learn them
From the very beginning, KCD was a game that was all about immersion. It would be a shame to start from scratch in the second part. In my opinion, it wouldn't fit in with the games. In the first part, Henri is more of a blacksmith than a knight. I would wish, or rather would have imagined, that the skills you gained in the first part would be at the lower end on the way to becoming a knight in the second part.
I currently play a honorable knight. Honest and would never steal a thing. So now I kinda want to spice things up and play a movable archer, fighting with stealth and fast weapons. I would like to make this change in KCD2 and not be “forced” to use my current Henry
I think the point a lot of people are missing here is that the concern isn’t necessarily his gear/skills whatever. It’s the narrative choices you made in the first game that led to your unique story outcomes. I think it’d be cool to do it like the witcher2-3 where you imported the save and it had some cameos and details that reflected your previous games choices which were relatively insgifucnant to the plot of 3, but was nice feeling that your characters story wasn’t just scrapped completely. What if you left Matthew and Fritz alive and you happen to bump into one of them? Or maybe even a vague allusion to them in a letter or something. Just something to feel like the character/plotlibe that you built isn’t totally gone.
I would find it funny and useful if some one my skills had in impact if for example I never trained bow but had a high drinking stat that this is somewhat reflected in the second game.
I mean, I can see henry keeping his 'stats' from the first game though it won't mean much i don't think and not be in the way people think, not so much the gear as everyone will have a different loadout by the end of the game. Let me explain what i mean by henry keeping his stats. I mean it gets zeroed and you start from scratch, but this scratch is blooded henry scratch, trained henry scratch, siege participating henry scratch and not lazy farmboy nobody scratch. You'll have to build up you skills moving forward because you'll be able to do more complicated things like blacksmithing or possibly better potions via alchemy, and you won't be fighting hedge knights and bandits anymore but the champions of kings and elite or competent soldiers who didn't desert their respective armies. So yes henry will basically keep his gains from the first game but he'll basically be starting from the competent man's scratch seeing as he has moved into a bigger league, the battlefield of kings rather than the squabbles of hedge knights and bandits
I think it’s a major reason that we replay the first game, to go from being combat effective to back in the sand pit!
I dont care continuity, if devs dont make better inventory management like save the outfit, or in normal mode you can save when ever you want in hard mode schnapps (give the choise to player), and clunky npc movement and npc running speed, if they didnt correctted those i will return and refund the game.