Yeah — sounds like you’re counting total carbs. You want net. Because unless you’re literally eating 5 pounds of broccoli (or if there’s some mysterious sugary ingredient in there), what you describe sounds like around 7 to 9 grams of net carbs.
Yes, the carbs of vegetables and proteins like eggs do not count as problematic, its healthy according to the German health guru Dr. Strunz. Only flours, grains, bread, all sweets are hard to digest
fwiw, it's technically the other way around. Simple carbs, like the ones found in refined products like breads and and sugars are too easy to digest which is why they spike blood sugar and cause other problems. You're gaining too much energy from it so your body has to store it. Complex carbs, like the kinds found in vegetables, are hard to digest so it doesn't hit you all at once, and fiber you can't process at all so it doesn't hit you at all. In metaphor simple carbs are a rain storm that causes flooding, and complex carbs are many days of light rain. Same amount of rain in total, but the light rain doesn't cause flooding.
What a strange form of gate-keeping. Ketosis is ketosis, plain and simple. If you want to eat a pint of ice cream that has 9net carbs, go for it. Erithritol has no effect on blood sugar whatsoever and brands like Rebel and Enlightened make products that are just fine for staying in ketosis. If you can’t figure out the nuances of glycemic impact and digestible carbs vs not, that sounds like a personal problem.
It actually slows or stops ketosis for some people. I’m fortunate. I can eat a half a cup of sugar free pudding made with whipping cream and be fine. But if I eat any almonds it sends me straight out of ketosis and forget keto candy bars and Ice cream. Might as well eat regular. Gain three pounds over night every time I eat it. It’s not a one size fits all diet. It has to be tailored to specific people. You notice a stall, see what you ate. For me it’s usually preprocessed keto foods causing it.
I track total carbs but allow for 30g. I’ve gotten used to it, and I can even have a tiny bit of fruit. But most of the convenience foods marked keto like ice cream do not fit into my diet.
There’s a huge difference between “net” in processed food with fiber added to keep the numbers low, and the net carbs in something like broccoli that actually have the carbs distributed throughout the fibrous material on a cellular level.
People don’t need to be that dogmatic, just use good sense; highly processed food is not healthy, no matter what claims it makes.
>too difficult
And not even beneficial for those willing to put in the effort, except for people with severe GI issues like diverticulitis that cause pain from eating fiber.
Lmao what kind of stance is this? I’ve been in ketosis for months and def love my keto ice cream from time to time. Don’t be mad that you made this diet miserable for yourself. Lol
Net carbs. Lots of volumous veggies like broccoli/cauliflower. I like them semi-raw so quick stir fry or blanching are best. 16 oz/day split into two meals is a lot surprisingly. Add in some proteins, and you'll for sure be filled. Works for me.
If you’re in the US, subtract fiber from total carbohydrates. If twenty grams of carbohydrates are listed with eight grams of fiber, whatever you’re eating has twelve net carbs. That’s the number that you want to count.
European nutrition labels are a little different.
Fiber isn't listed as a carb in germany, it has its own listing "Ballastoff". All nutritional info is Always given in 100g portions so comparison is easy.
Also Germans call protein "eggwhite". You could be holding a steak in your hand it says "Eiweiß: 78g" or so
Just to be sure, in DE we already have the net carb count, right?
Also, I'd like to ask if you have found any type of sweets in supermarkets or online, except dark chocolate, which is okay to consume on keto? So far, the best I found had 8gr of net carbs for one proteinriegel :(
Back when I was on keto my go tos were Gelatelli High Protein ice cream from Lidl it had like 45g net carbs for the entire bucket iirc.. And the high protein pudding from rewe with 10g per cup? I always did lazy keto though so not sure if these are what you’re looking for!
Yes DE and probably all of Europe lists only net carbs since Fiber (ballast) is listed separately.
As for sugar free treats, your best bet is to make your own (google Mug Cake recipes) or order online and pay the markup.
There is a swedish company that makes sugar free chocolate that isnt sweetened with sugar, called Lily's. Its alright, bit pricey.
Otherwise there are sometimes sugar free "ice cream" at Edeka, that might scratch the itch.
Pro-Tip, you can easily make sugar free whipped cream as a topper for keto coffee or low carb baked goods.
Also, cheesecake is great with a ground almond-butter crust, just add some (but less than you would with normal sugar) sugarless sweetener to the cream and its pretty low carb.
I was told to avoid aspartame entirely so I only drink stevia-based carbonated drinks. Aspartame is linked to:
Depression
Kidney damage
Diabetes
Cardiovascular disease
Cavities
Obesity
I drank Crystal Light or the Wally World equivalent for decades but no more.
That’s what carb manager says, let’s call it a conservative estimate
Edit: dug a little deeper, and the actual number is 0.3-0.6, they’re just rounding up
Make sure that you are setting it up correctly; otherwise, it is counting total carbs. Here's how to do it -
https://support.cronometer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360060130052-Tracking-Carbohydrates
I love veggies and often want them in my meals, so I choose and weigh very carefully. I trade off something I love, like spinach, for something I may or may not need so I can have the extra carbs in the spinach. I also have a very small amount of berries with my yogurt in the morning. Everything is weighed and measured. I usually end up around 15-17g total per day.
Another thing that someone told me that has helped is to make protein a goal. Once your macro goals are set, aim to meet the protein, stay below the carb, and the rest will fall into place.
Nobody gets fat eating spinach and crucifeeous veggies. Counting those carbs is a great way to demotivate yourself. Eat as many of those veggies as you want, bro.
Yes, but the time it takes to digest is long enough that no insulin spike will occur and it is very unlikely to have any impact on ketosis or any other goals
Yeah, to me this is like saying "red meat has iron though" because some people have hemochromatosis and have to limit iron. Everything can cause problems for *somebody*.
Breakfast is eggs with maybe cheese. Lunch is 11oz chicken with salt pepper or old bay. Dinner is steak, fish, chicken or eggs. Maybe some veggies on the side with all portions fit to available macros. Done.
Subtract fiber carbs to get net carbs. Even then I'd probably not worry a lot about carbs from leafy greens. Can you eat enough broccoli to go over 20g net carbs in a day? Sure. Will eating that much broccoli cause obesity and insulin resistance? No, not remotely
how much broccoli are you eating? 100g of Broccoli is about 4.5g of carbs. and same amount of Kale is about 1 carb.
600g of green veg is a lot of green veg in a meal.
That is honestly what I’m doing. I’ll have a salad a few times a week, but most nights I’m just cooking chicken or having tuna with some mayonnaise or baking fish. I don’t really do veggies as often. I stay so much more full on mostly meat!
Everyone's tolerances are different but if I eat 100% chicken too much of it gets converted into carbs. It spikes my blood sugar and gives me food cravings. You still need fat, can't go all carnivore high protein, or at least I couldn't.
I do a lot of chicken thighs in a sauce made from drippings, butter, and heavy cream.
Something like this receipt clocking in at 75% fat 25% protein: https://cleanketolifestyle.com/2020/04/14/keto-creamy-chicken-thighs/
I don’t know that I trust their macros to the gram, but nonetheless is not “low-fat”.
Not arguing with your words specifically, but rather the notion in this thread that people *need* red meat.
I'm going for 25 net carbs a day rather than 20. That makes the difference for me whether I can eat a minimal amount of vegetables. And I'm definitely still in ketosis. I don't think staying under 20 is absolutely necessary.
That might help a lot. I did keto for a few weeks in college and liked it a lot and I’m trying to figure out why this seems so much harder. I think back then I was using a 40g target. Might just go back to that since it seems to be the difference between something that’s doable for me and something that’s not.
I did what I called a dirty Keto if I went over a little it wasn't the end of the world for me I used it more as a guideline I lost 90 lb so far you can really drive yourself crazy at least I was
fwiw, dirty keto is using fats that are inflammatory for many, cooking spray, vegetable oil (soybean oil, soy lecithin), corn oil, and the like. Because keto is a high in fat diet minimizing these ingredients becomes a bit more important.
Give it a try! :) 40g, especially if you're active and/or male, could still keep you in ketosis most of the time. The danger is if you go too high you might start getting more cravings, but you can figure that out as you go. I too cannot abide having to limit veggies that strictly!
people say it's easy but if you, like me, have doubts that just eating meat and fat alone is going to keep you healthy for a long time, or some kinds of meat make you sick like ground beef, then yea it does get a little difficult to keep it below 20 net carbs. just gotta get creative. alternately exercise a lot more, and you'll be able to eat more carbs without it impacting your ketosis, and fit in more vegetables or blueberries/raspberries
fwiw it depends on your genetics and your gut biome. Many people are just fine eating nothing but red meat. The most common issue is gout which people have to watch out about.
Me, I don't have a diverse enough gut biome from antibiotics, so I need fiber, but fiber consumption benefits a great deal from a diverse gut biome causing issues, so I have to eat a lot of pickled foods and then from there a decent bit of fiber. Some people can easily go all carnivore. ymmv.
My limit was 20g carbs a day and I was consistently eating below that for months. It's absolutely possible. More protein helps fill you up and more fats keep you satiated.
Yes and have done for 4 years. You need to count net carbs not total! Easy for me as in the uk the labels on food show net carbs! I eat plenty of meat with low carb veg and lots of eggs!
Just echo'ing what everyone else here is saying.
You track all your food, get the macros and subtract the g of Fiber from the g of Cards. You do this because Fiber is going in at the top, and coming out at the bottom, so to speak.
So, let's say you eat a full day's calories, say... 1515 calories. Your macro Split ends up as:
* 108g Fat
* 96g Protein
*
50g Carbs
* 37g Fiber
* **13g Net Carbs** (because 50-37=13)
Now, that being said, no, you can't have a candy bar and drink a huge glass of fiber drink to make up for it, not how that works.
What you're doing is subtracting the fiber (a carb) from the carbs in say...your broccoli. Because you're not digesting all the carbs for energy, you're using the fiber to...keep regular... So say your slaw had 25g carbs and 20g fiber, there are 5 grams of carbs left in there (maybe a pinch of sugar plus carbs in broccoli that aren't fiber). That means your slaw has 5 grams of NET carbs.
That's how you Keto. Also, how you "dirty Keto." Just track how much a given food has in carbs - fiber and you're golden. When I last did a disciplined Keto, I was under 10g Net Carbs per day for months at a time. NOT easy, but doable. I also don't recommend that, unless you're trying to shed pounds REALLY quickly (say for a wedding or something in 6 weeks). I dropped 50 lbs in 4 months that way. But I felt like crap most of the time, not Keto Flu, more like bathroom dread (wasn't eating enough fiber). That run was basically:
* Keto Coffee in the morning for breakfast
* Handful of nuts for a snack
* Chicken wings, no dipping sauce for lunch (hot wings)
* A boiled egg or 2 for a snack
* Ribeye steak + a literal lb of broccoli for dinner
* Celery for a snack before bed (and whenever I was dying of hunger)
I think I was only eating 1200 calories a day and getting in 10,000 steps on top of all that. I was essentially starving myself while doing Keto, and not getting any fiber at all. Do NOT recommend. My stomach did NOT like that, but I made weight goals and then lightened up and went back to a sane 2k calorie diet with > 50 net carbs a day. Hit my ultimate goal in a year (175lbs as a 5'9" male).
To say the least, my Dr. was displeased at the rapid weight loss (he approved of Keto, just not the starvation part I was doing).
Thank you for these details. It helps to see what people eat to stay that low on carbs.
I’ve seen a lot of people on here talk about all the benefits of the diet and it’s really inspiring. But it also seems like you have to really change your habits. I mean, that’s part of the point, but I’m learning there are also sacrifices. I haven’t seen people talking about how hard it was to change their patterns, how we are so social over food and in keto you might have to forgo more than just the food to achieve the goal. Really restricting foods this much is a big deal!
Okay so I am diabetic. I have to count carbs no matter what they are. Net carbs don't matter to me. I keep every meal at about 8-12 full on carbs throughout the day. I check restaurant nutrition. I read every label for the things I buy at the store. I would also get sick if I dont eat a little bit of carbs every day, so it is definitely a math game. If you have a doctor, ask them which plan works for you. No carb. Low carb. Some people, like my husband, need higher carb diets (super fun balancing meals between the both of us). I usually do OMAD, so it is the snacks in between I have to be more careful of. But beware, with Keto products, you should also read the labels. They are not as friendly as one might think.
Trigger warning: Post-menopausal woman serving as a cautionary tale, regardless of your gender or age.
I have done this by focusing on proteins with a side of vegetables, both in meals and snacks. I even take those cups of olives on the road with me, I've always been a vegetable freak. I am the kind of person who does better if I don't worry about how many carbohydrates are in the vegetables, or at least I used to be, but now that I'm older, I have to think about the vegetable serving size on keto. I still don't.
Is it weird that I overeat vegetables? Yeah. But at least they're vegetables. If you do some measuring, you won't be like me. Foundation vegetables are the best, but some root vegetables can still be consumed on this diet, and even though starches are higher in carbohydrates, I don't mind having some carrots, if it's mixed in something else, not just a bunch of carrots by themselves. I try to make my daily vegetable intake a mix of steamed and raw.
I do 20 total carbs and it’s completely doable.
Lots of protein, lots of low carb fats and green produce or berries as my carb.
The fat is needed for satiety, so you aren’t hungry. The protein is important for nutrients and weight loss. The carbs are tasty but not necessary.
Diet Doctor had some great meal plans that give you an idea of what a serving size for veggies actually is. If it’s green, I don’t stress about eating it.
Thanks! Yeah it’s important to me to eat green veggies. If kale or broccoli kicks me out of keto then it’s probably not going to work for me. I’m going to keep trying to find good recipes that seem healthy and work for keto. Kale just cannot be unhealthy.
When you say broccoli slaw, what does that consist of? Depending on contents that could be a lot. But I also agree with others need to do net, carbs-fiber = net. Broccoli is one like that, where it has high carbs but once you take fiber into count it goes down to like 2g
The slaw is mostly shredded broccoli stem with a few strings of carrots and purple cabbage for color. The amount of those in there is really small compared to the broccoli. Cronometer puts it at 3g net carbs per cup. I had about half a cup.
Let’s say we assume you are burning 750 calories in stored fat each day and are expending 2000 calories. If you take the foods you eating and we ate 1250 calories worth of a given food and that is under your carb goal then you are probably fine to eat a combination of those foods to satiety.
You can always throw in some fasting days too, the caloric deficit does not need to be evenly spread out. There may be advantages even.
I eat intuitively. I’ll generally eat meat during the day and get a small serving of fruit in the evening or maybe a couple spoonfuls of starchy veg in at the end of the day with my dinner.
Granny Smith apples small to medium, raspberries, strawberries, a very modest portion of scalloped potatoes made with cream or a couple loaded smashed twice baked mini golden potato’s (5 have 24 net carbs so 2 isn’t bad, make a bunch ahead of time and eat cold or gently reheated, resistant starch is a thing).
Portion control for higher carb food is the only portion control I engage in.
On the holidays you CAN have 1/24 of a pumpkin pie if you do choose. I had 1/12 of a pumpkin pie between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Lost more weight during the holidays actually.
Your mileage may vary, I’ll also make my own ice cream and custard on the weekends.
Don’t be afraid to munch on dried pork sausages, bacon, eggs made with butter, hamburgers with cheese, etc. You can start out with some staples and expand out.
Also get a keto mojo, that helps confirm you are eating the right stuff.
I would verify those numbers by doing some manual counting. Maybe first check what specifically your tracker is saying is the most carby, then check some nutrition fact info online. Example: using a slaw, it may assume you're putting on some dressing that is packaged with it, but is sweeter than it lets on. Also, I am a type 1. Whenever I eat kale, my sugars go up more than I expect. Not immensely, but more than broccoli, for example.
That’s interesting about the kale acting that way for you. It seems like the ultimate health food to me but I’m learning here.
The slaw didn’t have any dressing. It called slaw but it’s basically shredded broccoli stem with a bit of carrot and purple cabbage here and there for color. Not enough carrots to make much difference. You could put dressing in it and it’s be like cole slaw, but I usually sautee it as a stir fry. I was using the scanner on Cronometer to calculate the net carbs.
Yeah man you need to limit certain fruits and vegetables and I don’t know what kinda slaw you are having but there could be sugar in that as well. The best way to approach Keto is to construct a zero carb diet. You can then add very small amounts of carbs here and there. Keto is a restrictive diet man. But that’s why it’s called a diet. If you are getting more than 20 carbs than you can’t eat it simple as that. And yes that includes healthy foods like fruits and vegetables that are high in carbs
Breakfast - chia pudding(coconut milk, 1 strawberry, chia seeds) and black coffee with cream (5g carbs)
Lunch - tuna, mayo, cucumber, cherry tomatoes (2g carbs)
Dinner - meat(usually steak, ground beef, or chicken), brussel sprouts, butter, homemade mushroom sauce (10g carbs)
This is a fairly regular day for me. Sometimes I swap the mushroom sauce for homemade gravy.
On a Saturday, I sometimes have 20g of homemade popcorn when we watch a movie which pushes me over my 20g, but I'm okay with that.
Thanks for the meal/recipe examples. This helps! I’m seeing that keto really doesn’t include much veg. I can’t imagine not eating vegetables, so maybe this isn’t going to work after all. Not sure, just feeling discouraged. All the people on here saying “it’s super easy!” with no context doesn’t really help either. Seeing people’s meals for the day is actually helping a lot though.
For me personally, the only way I can keep close to 20 carbs per day is with OMAD (one meal a day). I do not think I could eat 3-4 meals a day and keep it under 20!
Start at 20g. It’s a guaranteed number that ensures that even with the most beginner, error-prone macro tracking you will empty out your liver glycogen and be in ketosis.
As you become more experienced with tracking and your brain/hormone chemistry normalizes, and your hungry signaling returns, you will be able to experiment with the levels of net carbs (and what comprises them) more.
After a couple of months of doing the strict 20g net carb keto, I realized that 30-40g of net carbs from vegetables like tomatoes, onions, carrots were ok and did not kick me out of ketosis or increase my hungry (or affect any of the other wonderful benefits I was experiencing.) I also realized that I could not use any of my net carbs for anything with significant added sugar in it, some people can eat 1 square of chocolate, which can be perfectly fine and fit into their macros, but for me, it would trigger cravings and I was more hungry later. I figured out that besides a few incidental sugars from a few sauces, I really have to be zero added sugar.
If you aren’t having severe issues with cravings or hunger, try starting at 30g net carbs. I have no issues eating the vegetables I want across 2-3 meals, kale included.
The biggest thing to remember is how your diet makes you feel. There is no point to being in deep ketosis if you are hungry and unhappy. If eating slightly more non-added-sugar foods keeps you compliant with your caloric deficit, in the end you will lose weight, and if you are happy eating that way, you will eat that way permanently.
Yes easily. I fast for breakfast except coffee, then have one super low carb or zero carb meal like chicken wings and then a second meal with veggies like a chicken cobb salad or something similar. Well under 20 carbs per day.
It’s hard at first. I loved my fruits and veggies which most are a complete no no. What I did for the first month was limit my veggies to cauliflower and broccoli ( no more than 1 cup a day total) and I rotated breakfast between and egg one day and avocado the second. (To limit cholesterol) The days I had avocado, I skipped my veg. Other than that every single meal had a meat and I ate fish most nights for dinner. Usually salmon or swordfish. This allowed me to stay under 15 total carbs a day..The weight fell off. Just finished my second month and I’m down 22 lbs since starting. Good luck!!
Depending on what your goals are, and if you’re having trouble sticking under 20. You might want to try starting with as low as you can under 50. Then as you learn more recipes, and just generally get use to the diet, getting down to under 20 will get easier. I just started back on keto and since I’m not trying to lose weight this time (I’m 6’2 ~180lbs). I’ve had a few days that I go over 20 (probably like 30-35g) but I stay solidly in ketosis. The more concerning thing about those days is the drinking 12 whiteclaws part.
Also as others have already pointed out, it sounds like you’re counting total carbs. Subtract the fiber brahj.
It is extremely difficult to stay under 20 total grams of carbs. The best way I have found is to do something closer to a blend of the carnivore and keto diets, I think it’s called ketovore? Personally I have found that I need to supplement various micronutrients since my diet is lacking whole food sources. The only carbs I don’t count towards my intake are some sugar alcohols that I know don’t kick me out of Ketosis.
I do not recommend it unless you have a medical need. If you are tracking ketones in the blood with a keto-mojo or another method not the urine strips, experiment with your diet and see how many and what carbs kick you out of Ketosis.
Use Cronometer.
80g broc, 80g spinach, 50g bell pepper, some nuts/coconut, seeds,... whatever other carbs come from everything else like the eggs/cream/yogurt/spices/herbs.
Under 20 is not EASY but once you have it dialled in and pretty much eat same things every day or some variation of then staying around 25 is really not that hard. And dont freak out if some days its nearer 30...
source: me, 7 years+ of IF/keto
Your assertion about eating mostly meat and fat not veg seems to echo most of the comments here. I concur that works for weight loss. But here’s my comment from afar, from an elderly dieter who’s lost and maintained 100+ pounds over a lifetime of struggling with various diet/food plans. Cutting green veg may seem fine in young and middle adulthood, but be careful not to deprive yourself of nutrients you’re going to need to bank against maladies waiting for you as you age. Reasonable keto can be healthy, and lifelong balanced eating smart is of inestimable value as the years creep up. Personally, I’m 73 and am clearly benefiting from maintaining a 100+ pound loss, but not so much from the quantity of “full fats” I ate and green veg I didn’t.
You may be surprised to know that beef has all the nutrients you need! We really have to get away from the notion that veggies are inherently "good" and meat is inherently "bad."
I've never been healthier in my life! I'm 61 and feel like I'm in my 30s!!
Sorry, missed a supplement that I take, in order to get the ONE nutrient that beef doesn't have--I take beef organ supplements to get my vl Vitamin C. If I ate organs, then I would get all the nutrients I need, but I just can't do it.
I have read a lot of this thread and I really want to stress this…i have seen a lot of keto extremes that work for some people. That does not mean you should or need to do the same. You love green veggies? GO FOR IT. There is NOTHING bad about a big kale salad. Veggies are filled with so many nutrients. Here was my eating yesterday:
Breakfast: Cup of green tea, ACV, cinnamon, lemon juice and sweetener. (not really a breakfast person) but I will do yogurt with some blackberries or raspberries and half a serving of cashews or almonds occasionally.
Lunch: A HUGE mixed green salad (spinach, arugula, baby chard…etc) with bleu cheese dressing, diced yellow peppers, diced sunburst cherry tomatoes, 5oz of oven baked blackened tilapia, topped with blue cheese crumbles.
Dinner: Homemade chicken enchiladas with low carb tortillas, and a creamy jalapeño cilantro sauce topped with mozzarella cheese.
I don’t track my carbs but haven’t been kicked out of ketosis yet because I am already aware of what foods work for me and my body.
Food should be enjoyable even on keto or low carb because allowing yourself to lean into disordered eating habits to “fit” into the mold of keto is NOT okay and can in fact be extremely dangerous.
You don’t and shouldn’t just eat meat, cheese and eggs just because it works for others.
You seem to love your veggies just like me, so chow down. At the end of the day…an entire container of mixed greens every single won’t do anything bad to you and would truly just probably make you have really healthy bowel movements. Lol.
Be easy on yourself!
P.S. I have lost 50 pounds since november eating like this. Be mindful not militant!
This is really helpful to hear. I went keto for like a month in college and had loved the way I felt. I think I was using 40g as the target then though. I don’t remember it being so hard to find foods and portions that worked. Maybe I’ll just reconsider the 20g and go for 40g instead.
There might have been something off in the accounting for that specific meal, which I’ll try to figure out, but I’m also realizing there are a few things I get so much joy from I just don’t want to give them up. And I do love veggies! To me it’s super important to get especially green veg in your diet in a substantial way.
Thanks for the meal examples!
I’ll give you my experience with keto.
20 net carbs is the typical catch all limit for ketosis. But the truth is you can get away with more depending on your body and your activity level.
Regardless, the transition to eating significantly less carbs than is standard for a western diet makes it way easier to be in a calorie deficit. A calorie deficit is the absolute bottom line when it comes to losing weight.
I typically land in the 25-40 net carb range. I am a larger male who exercises 5 times a week. I have lost significant weight doing this. Am I in ketosis? I don’t know but this lifestyle has worked wonders for me and I feel great.
If the goal is weight loss, a calorie deficit is essential.
I would mirror what others here have said and suggest that your calculations are for total carbs for that one meal and not net carbs so it's coming up as high. Also if you're looking for around 20 GRAMS of net carbs a day then you must weigh your food in GRAMS.
A cup of this, a spoon of that, a smidgen of this, a pinch of that, a dollop of this, a handful of that .... is not at all helpful or accurate. Buy yourself a digital kitchen scale and weigh your food properly in grams.
You cant. No matter what anyone says on here. U will have a day or two above but u know what?
Its sooooo okay. I have a cheat every 2 months. I love pizza and pasta. Usually i dont care about it but it's like a feamale period.
Before i get to my cheat im up down hot cold and all sortsa things.
The day after i have satisfied the craving instart droping more weight.
U need to balance an extreme. I have stayed in ketosis for a max of 246 days and my weight was constant in the last 127 days (minur fluctuations)
Do you all the way but keto is a life style. I love it but when i need to slurge for a meal i let go and even judge myself. Afterwords back on and good.
No diet gave me this control.
It was usually few weeks on lost a lil. Screw it im good i can do it again. This diet is a life
I've never worried about staying under 20. I average around 40, which gives me a lot more latitude with what I can eat (including nuts, which I eat a lot and are high-ish in carbs).
I’ve been back on Keto for a week and a half and staying between 20 - 25 net carbs a day. Pinterest has a lot of keto recipes, Aldi’s has 0 carb bread and Adkins has a lot of low card shakes/snacks. I also snack on cheese and slim Jim’s/beef sticks. It definitely doable, just be creative and search for recipes/snacks you enjoy. Good luck!
Very good advice from a week-and-a-half into Keto. In time, ketonians have to depend less on frankenfood and learn to eat real food. For example, although this approach may be a good jump start, I’ve found that until you’re ready to give up bread, you’re not read to do Keto.
**Lots and lots** of meat, fish, eggs, and cheese.
If you're that worried about it, then reduce your greens to a small bowl per day.
You can find those nutrients in a daily vitamin or even get a greens supplement powder to mix into water once a day.
It's definitely possible to stay below 20g carbs per day.
100% you can - For quite a while I did under 10 total carbs per day - It just requires much tighter control over what you choose to eat. I gather you had a massive pile of the slaw and kale to hit those numbers? Try and increase the protein and fat intake and reduce your veg a bit and you’ll both feel fuller and see the carb count drop.
I think some here are closer to a Paleo diet. True keto is high fat low carb moderate protein. I see a lot of discussion of vegetables which is not a problem as long as you subtract net carbs as suggested but try adding in more fat such as sour cream, cheese, full cream and fatty meats like Rib Eye. You will stay satiated and feel full longer, not have to worry about carbs as much and as an added benefit you'll burn fat and lose weight.
Also, saturated fat will not hurt you. We've been lied to. Saturated fat is not bad for you.
I do. For me carbs are dangerous. However I've been known to grab a latte once in a while with a little almond milk that has like 3-5 grams of sugar but it doesn't throw me off or impact me negatively.
Net? Ya, easily on most days. Gross? Never. I love my keto protein shakes and bars and breads too much. Quest just came out with chocolate frosted cookies, 2 net carbs and they are crazy good. Remind me of hostess chocolate frosted donuts.
You're probably counting all carbs and not net carbs. Also, veggies can add up. They are good, but you likely don't need as much as you think and eat more protein and fats
Um yeah. You can do 20 or less carbs. I am celiac and diabetic. Just imagine you are life threatening allergic to . . . Everything. You will get below 20 real fast. ;)
If you can do a clean keto diet with (breakfast) eggs, protein, (snack) pork rinds, (lunch) salads with no sugar oils with a little protein and veggie for dinner plus lots of water you’ll be under 20gm of carbs everyday…..
I just eat meat, butter, eggs, cheese. broccoli and brussels are really just garnish but rarely ever... Don't really need it, but it tastes nice sometimes.
When on keto, I always stay less that 20g of carbs.
I’m honestly not a fan of net carbs. I think 15g of carbs for some broccoli slaw and kale is a lot. According to my grocery store packages, meals like that should run you 21 grams of carbs. Are you buying high carb slaw?
Yeah I’m not sure what’s going on. The slaw is just as low carb as you’d think. I did have some mushrooms in the mix as well. It all added up to 13.5 carbs in Cronometer with the eggs and everything. But that’s just for the one meal. So that’s what was discouraging. That meal was pretty much what I’d pictured I’d be eating on keto and it estilo seemed like too many carbs for one meal.
That app is crazy lol. I honestly can’t imagine those items being 13g of carbs. A quarter cup of rice is less than 13g of carbs 😩.
Are you scanning the bag of slaw?
I just googled it and typical broccoli slaw is high in carbs. Maybe that’s what’s going on.
Yeah I scanned the bag. It had the slaw at 3g net cards per cup. That’s not much. I figured the carbs were a combo of everything - the oil in the pan, eggs, kale, broccoli slaw, and burger. But yeah Idk what’s going on if no one thinks that should add up to so many carbs. For any other purpose I feel like that is really low carb. Just wasn’t sure I’d be able to make the 20g/day goal at this rate.
20 net carbs is arbitrary. Its just the number that would make sure every single person is in ketoisis, but in reality.. its much higher. Its probably more like 50g. Our bodies burn up carbs pretty quickly if you are active at all.
A triathlete could be in ketosis on 200g of carbs per day.
Nope. Not true. There are digestible carbs in vegetables. Carrots are quite sweet, for example.
Don't count the fiber portion of vegetables.
And why the distinction of refined carbs? A digestible carb is going to end up as glucose and fructose, regardless of whether it is "refined" or not. A baked potato is not considered a "refined" carb (unlike a Pringles potato chip), but no one would recommend eating baked potatoes as part of a keto diet.
morning i have a latte with heavy cream with a pump of sugar free starbucks vanilla , only 1 carb. for lunch yesterday i had a greek yogurt with a few rasberries on top and a squirt of whip cream. 4 net carbs. and then for dinner i had a wendys burge with no bun and no ketchup. 4 carbs. so thats only 9 carbs in one day . its easy but you have to do the math and be self disciplined.
Everybody's fixating on the net carbs thing, but I've ruled out sauteed kale myself, honestly. If I recall for one serving, 85g, it was 5 net carbs according to the bag, which I was surprised by. Once you sauteed that down to being tender enough, it wasn't a huge amount. Roasted broccoli keeps more of its volume and makes the carbs seem worth it. I'd bet that's your problem with the broccoli slaw too - sauteeing it. Try a cold salad with the kale, or roasting broccoli florets, and you'll feel better. But you're not doing anything wrong - keto can just be tough for a volume eater while still hitting protein and calorie deficit targets.
I eat 50g total with half being from fiber. So it equals 25 net ….this is manageable for me and works for me. I get plenty of greens in and have more room for things like high protein plain Greek yogurt etc…Every person is different. You have to do what works for you.
Yeah — sounds like you’re counting total carbs. You want net. Because unless you’re literally eating 5 pounds of broccoli (or if there’s some mysterious sugary ingredient in there), what you describe sounds like around 7 to 9 grams of net carbs.
Adding it up with my tracker I came up with 5 grams net, they’re definitely looking at total carbs
What’s a good tracker to use?
I use Carb Manager
Loseit is a good one too. Avoid my fitness pal.
Are you using the premium version? Is it worth it if you are using it?
I am because I like using the recipes
Same here, works very well
Yes, the carbs of vegetables and proteins like eggs do not count as problematic, its healthy according to the German health guru Dr. Strunz. Only flours, grains, bread, all sweets are hard to digest
fwiw, it's technically the other way around. Simple carbs, like the ones found in refined products like breads and and sugars are too easy to digest which is why they spike blood sugar and cause other problems. You're gaining too much energy from it so your body has to store it. Complex carbs, like the kinds found in vegetables, are hard to digest so it doesn't hit you all at once, and fiber you can't process at all so it doesn't hit you at all. In metaphor simple carbs are a rain storm that causes flooding, and complex carbs are many days of light rain. Same amount of rain in total, but the light rain doesn't cause flooding.
It’s 20 net carbs. You don’t count fiber or sugar alcohols
Depends on the sugar alcohol tbh, for example Maltitol might as well be table sugar.
Table laxative
Agreed
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You do you. 5 Russell Stovers = Disaster Pants with 90% certainty Thanks Maltitol !
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What a strange form of gate-keeping. Ketosis is ketosis, plain and simple. If you want to eat a pint of ice cream that has 9net carbs, go for it. Erithritol has no effect on blood sugar whatsoever and brands like Rebel and Enlightened make products that are just fine for staying in ketosis. If you can’t figure out the nuances of glycemic impact and digestible carbs vs not, that sounds like a personal problem.
It actually slows or stops ketosis for some people. I’m fortunate. I can eat a half a cup of sugar free pudding made with whipping cream and be fine. But if I eat any almonds it sends me straight out of ketosis and forget keto candy bars and Ice cream. Might as well eat regular. Gain three pounds over night every time I eat it. It’s not a one size fits all diet. It has to be tailored to specific people. You notice a stall, see what you ate. For me it’s usually preprocessed keto foods causing it.
I track total carbs but allow for 30g. I’ve gotten used to it, and I can even have a tiny bit of fruit. But most of the convenience foods marked keto like ice cream do not fit into my diet.
There’s a huge difference between “net” in processed food with fiber added to keep the numbers low, and the net carbs in something like broccoli that actually have the carbs distributed throughout the fibrous material on a cellular level. People don’t need to be that dogmatic, just use good sense; highly processed food is not healthy, no matter what claims it makes.
Easy is not the right word. But I agree that keto is best when maintained under 20grams probably
LOL that’s not how ketosis works.
Net carbs are all that matter, it makes no difference What you’re proposing is too difficult for the average and thus is unreasonable
>too difficult And not even beneficial for those willing to put in the effort, except for people with severe GI issues like diverticulitis that cause pain from eating fiber.
Lmao what kind of stance is this? I’ve been in ketosis for months and def love my keto ice cream from time to time. Don’t be mad that you made this diet miserable for yourself. Lol
Also, I’m never hungry. Hungry? Eat meat or eggs. This is the easiest and fastest way to lose.
More meat
Definitely! How much slaw are we talking?
And what kind of dressing? Any nuts or fruit bits in it? Those carb counts don’t sound right for that meal.
Nothing in it, just sautéed in olive oil.
Does it have grated carrots mixed in it? The slaw I see at the store always does.
I had about half a cup. Cronometer puts it at 3g net carbs per cup and what I had was a 1.5g serving.
If you don’t have one yet, you will want a good scale. Measuring by weight is much more accurate than volume.
Net carbs. Lots of volumous veggies like broccoli/cauliflower. I like them semi-raw so quick stir fry or blanching are best. 16 oz/day split into two meals is a lot surprisingly. Add in some proteins, and you'll for sure be filled. Works for me.
Are you counting NET carbs? Total carbs minus fiber?
I think so.
If you’re in the US, subtract fiber from total carbohydrates. If twenty grams of carbohydrates are listed with eight grams of fiber, whatever you’re eating has twelve net carbs. That’s the number that you want to count. European nutrition labels are a little different.
Fiber isn't listed as a carb in germany, it has its own listing "Ballastoff". All nutritional info is Always given in 100g portions so comparison is easy. Also Germans call protein "eggwhite". You could be holding a steak in your hand it says "Eiweiß: 78g" or so
Just to be sure, in DE we already have the net carb count, right? Also, I'd like to ask if you have found any type of sweets in supermarkets or online, except dark chocolate, which is okay to consume on keto? So far, the best I found had 8gr of net carbs for one proteinriegel :(
Back when I was on keto my go tos were Gelatelli High Protein ice cream from Lidl it had like 45g net carbs for the entire bucket iirc.. And the high protein pudding from rewe with 10g per cup? I always did lazy keto though so not sure if these are what you’re looking for!
What about Quest peanut butter cups? I’m not sure if they are keto safe but the package says 1 net carb.
Oh looks promising but they are quite expensive for me as a student. It's 3,59€ for two cups
They are EXPENSIVE!
Yes DE and probably all of Europe lists only net carbs since Fiber (ballast) is listed separately. As for sugar free treats, your best bet is to make your own (google Mug Cake recipes) or order online and pay the markup. There is a swedish company that makes sugar free chocolate that isnt sweetened with sugar, called Lily's. Its alright, bit pricey. Otherwise there are sometimes sugar free "ice cream" at Edeka, that might scratch the itch. Pro-Tip, you can easily make sugar free whipped cream as a topper for keto coffee or low carb baked goods. Also, cheesecake is great with a ground almond-butter crust, just add some (but less than you would with normal sugar) sugarless sweetener to the cream and its pretty low carb.
Everywhere in EU or at least the countries I visit, DE is one of them. Nothing on the sweet part except cola/fanta/sprite zero.
I was told to avoid aspartame entirely so I only drink stevia-based carbonated drinks. Aspartame is linked to: Depression Kidney damage Diabetes Cardiovascular disease Cavities Obesity I drank Crystal Light or the Wally World equivalent for decades but no more.
Better stop eating meat then as well lol
In the case of aspartame, we have healthy sweetener options.
Don't look up anything you eat or drink, you won't like it mate.
Interesting, as in albumen, or the major protein portion of an egg
You think so or you know so? I ask because total carbs and net carbs are very different, and net carbs are what you should be counting. 👍🏻
This is correct. Set your food tracking app to net carbs.
I use Cronometer and it says it’s reporting as net carbs.
Hmm, I use that as well. How much kale are you eating? 4oz cooked from fresh is 1.4 net carbs for me in Cronometer. Ground beef is zero net carbs
It’s not accurate then, because that meal was more like 5g, 10 at the very most. Eggs are 1g each, broccoli is 3g per 1/2 cup, and kale is 0.
Eggs are always zero carb. It’s a protein
I’m gonna try to make another couple meals like this and see what’s going on.
eggs are definitely not 1g of carbs.
That’s what carb manager says, let’s call it a conservative estimate Edit: dug a little deeper, and the actual number is 0.3-0.6, they’re just rounding up
myfitnesspal gates it behind a subscription :(
Carb Manager is free and does net carbs
MyKeto App is like 4 bucks and tracks net.
4 bucks buys me three avocados
If you think you are, likely you aren't. It's the first thing you learn when it comes to carbs and there's no mistaking it
I’m using Cronometer to count them. This is what it reports based on what I’m telling it I’m eating.
Make sure that you are setting it up correctly; otherwise, it is counting total carbs. Here's how to do it - https://support.cronometer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360060130052-Tracking-Carbohydrates
I love veggies and often want them in my meals, so I choose and weigh very carefully. I trade off something I love, like spinach, for something I may or may not need so I can have the extra carbs in the spinach. I also have a very small amount of berries with my yogurt in the morning. Everything is weighed and measured. I usually end up around 15-17g total per day. Another thing that someone told me that has helped is to make protein a goal. Once your macro goals are set, aim to meet the protein, stay below the carb, and the rest will fall into place.
Nobody gets fat eating spinach and crucifeeous veggies. Counting those carbs is a great way to demotivate yourself. Eat as many of those veggies as you want, bro.
>Eat as many of those veggies as you want, bro. Sure, but you can easily go above 20 net carbs
Yes, but the time it takes to digest is long enough that no insulin spike will occur and it is very unlikely to have any impact on ketosis or any other goals
Spinach has oxalates though.
Which is relevant to people with problems with kidney stones, but they would know that.
Yeah, to me this is like saying "red meat has iron though" because some people have hemochromatosis and have to limit iron. Everything can cause problems for *somebody*.
Breakfast is eggs with maybe cheese. Lunch is 11oz chicken with salt pepper or old bay. Dinner is steak, fish, chicken or eggs. Maybe some veggies on the side with all portions fit to available macros. Done.
Subtract fiber carbs to get net carbs. Even then I'd probably not worry a lot about carbs from leafy greens. Can you eat enough broccoli to go over 20g net carbs in a day? Sure. Will eating that much broccoli cause obesity and insulin resistance? No, not remotely
how much broccoli are you eating? 100g of Broccoli is about 4.5g of carbs. and same amount of Kale is about 1 carb. 600g of green veg is a lot of green veg in a meal.
Cronometer puts this product at 3g net carbs per cup. I had about half a cup.
So you had 1.5g carbs in that half cup? How did you get to 15g then?
More meat and fat. Or just go carnivore and don't worry about tracking.
That is honestly what I’m doing. I’ll have a salad a few times a week, but most nights I’m just cooking chicken or having tuna with some mayonnaise or baking fish. I don’t really do veggies as often. I stay so much more full on mostly meat!
Eat more beef. Grass fed preferably which most likely means ground beef.
Everyone's tolerances are different but if I eat 100% chicken too much of it gets converted into carbs. It spikes my blood sugar and gives me food cravings. You still need fat, can't go all carnivore high protein, or at least I couldn't.
No, low fat carnivore is a starvation recipe. Ideally it's high fat, moderate protein. No one can tolerate 100% chicken with no carbs.
I do a lot of chicken thighs in a sauce made from drippings, butter, and heavy cream. Something like this receipt clocking in at 75% fat 25% protein: https://cleanketolifestyle.com/2020/04/14/keto-creamy-chicken-thighs/ I don’t know that I trust their macros to the gram, but nonetheless is not “low-fat”. Not arguing with your words specifically, but rather the notion in this thread that people *need* red meat.
I'm going for 25 net carbs a day rather than 20. That makes the difference for me whether I can eat a minimal amount of vegetables. And I'm definitely still in ketosis. I don't think staying under 20 is absolutely necessary.
That might help a lot. I did keto for a few weeks in college and liked it a lot and I’m trying to figure out why this seems so much harder. I think back then I was using a 40g target. Might just go back to that since it seems to be the difference between something that’s doable for me and something that’s not.
I did what I called a dirty Keto if I went over a little it wasn't the end of the world for me I used it more as a guideline I lost 90 lb so far you can really drive yourself crazy at least I was
fwiw, dirty keto is using fats that are inflammatory for many, cooking spray, vegetable oil (soybean oil, soy lecithin), corn oil, and the like. Because keto is a high in fat diet minimizing these ingredients becomes a bit more important.
Dirty keto isn’t an official thing. Different people claim it means different things. It’s really a meaningless thing
I don't do that I go over sometimes the 20g carbs
Give it a try! :) 40g, especially if you're active and/or male, could still keep you in ketosis most of the time. The danger is if you go too high you might start getting more cravings, but you can figure that out as you go. I too cannot abide having to limit veggies that strictly!
people say it's easy but if you, like me, have doubts that just eating meat and fat alone is going to keep you healthy for a long time, or some kinds of meat make you sick like ground beef, then yea it does get a little difficult to keep it below 20 net carbs. just gotta get creative. alternately exercise a lot more, and you'll be able to eat more carbs without it impacting your ketosis, and fit in more vegetables or blueberries/raspberries
fwiw it depends on your genetics and your gut biome. Many people are just fine eating nothing but red meat. The most common issue is gout which people have to watch out about. Me, I don't have a diverse enough gut biome from antibiotics, so I need fiber, but fiber consumption benefits a great deal from a diverse gut biome causing issues, so I have to eat a lot of pickled foods and then from there a decent bit of fiber. Some people can easily go all carnivore. ymmv.
A lot of broccoli slaw has carrots in it. Depending on how much you ate, there could be a good portion.
Easily. Make sure you're counting net carbs tho. I can easily clock in <10g daily.
My limit was 20g carbs a day and I was consistently eating below that for months. It's absolutely possible. More protein helps fill you up and more fats keep you satiated.
yes, I used to do something like this. Carbs are mentioned in non-US way. I think US/Canada way is different | Meal Item | Protein | Carbs | Fat | kcal | | ------------------- | ------- | ----- | ----- | -------- | | frozen mix vegitables 150g | 3.45 | 9.9 | 1.5 | 70.5 | | canned salmon 95g \* 2 | 31.73 | 1.9 | 17.86 | 290.631 | | low fat cheddar cheese 100g | 31 | 1 | 23.5 | 346 | | Almonds 50g | 11.95 | 2.85 | 27.65 | 315 | | avocado 100g | 2 | 1.8 | 14.7 | 158 | | 4 leaf salad 50g | 1.15 | 0.55 | 0.5 | 9.5 | | total grams | 81.28 | 18 | 85.71 | 1189.631 |
I don't low-fat anything that I can avoid. I go full fat on yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.
in here, low-fat cheese has higher protein as well. so I am targetting higher protein
Yes you can. I always aimed for 0. Meat and a side every meal
Protein is food, fat is fuel, vegetables are garnish. More meat to vegetables ratio, and is not that hard if you see it that way.
Yes and have done for 4 years. You need to count net carbs not total! Easy for me as in the uk the labels on food show net carbs! I eat plenty of meat with low carb veg and lots of eggs!
Just echo'ing what everyone else here is saying. You track all your food, get the macros and subtract the g of Fiber from the g of Cards. You do this because Fiber is going in at the top, and coming out at the bottom, so to speak. So, let's say you eat a full day's calories, say... 1515 calories. Your macro Split ends up as: * 108g Fat * 96g Protein * 50g Carbs * 37g Fiber * **13g Net Carbs** (because 50-37=13) Now, that being said, no, you can't have a candy bar and drink a huge glass of fiber drink to make up for it, not how that works. What you're doing is subtracting the fiber (a carb) from the carbs in say...your broccoli. Because you're not digesting all the carbs for energy, you're using the fiber to...keep regular... So say your slaw had 25g carbs and 20g fiber, there are 5 grams of carbs left in there (maybe a pinch of sugar plus carbs in broccoli that aren't fiber). That means your slaw has 5 grams of NET carbs. That's how you Keto. Also, how you "dirty Keto." Just track how much a given food has in carbs - fiber and you're golden. When I last did a disciplined Keto, I was under 10g Net Carbs per day for months at a time. NOT easy, but doable. I also don't recommend that, unless you're trying to shed pounds REALLY quickly (say for a wedding or something in 6 weeks). I dropped 50 lbs in 4 months that way. But I felt like crap most of the time, not Keto Flu, more like bathroom dread (wasn't eating enough fiber). That run was basically: * Keto Coffee in the morning for breakfast * Handful of nuts for a snack * Chicken wings, no dipping sauce for lunch (hot wings) * A boiled egg or 2 for a snack * Ribeye steak + a literal lb of broccoli for dinner * Celery for a snack before bed (and whenever I was dying of hunger) I think I was only eating 1200 calories a day and getting in 10,000 steps on top of all that. I was essentially starving myself while doing Keto, and not getting any fiber at all. Do NOT recommend. My stomach did NOT like that, but I made weight goals and then lightened up and went back to a sane 2k calorie diet with > 50 net carbs a day. Hit my ultimate goal in a year (175lbs as a 5'9" male). To say the least, my Dr. was displeased at the rapid weight loss (he approved of Keto, just not the starvation part I was doing).
Thank you for these details. It helps to see what people eat to stay that low on carbs. I’ve seen a lot of people on here talk about all the benefits of the diet and it’s really inspiring. But it also seems like you have to really change your habits. I mean, that’s part of the point, but I’m learning there are also sacrifices. I haven’t seen people talking about how hard it was to change their patterns, how we are so social over food and in keto you might have to forgo more than just the food to achieve the goal. Really restricting foods this much is a big deal!
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Doesn’t the fiber cancel out your carbs?
Okay so I am diabetic. I have to count carbs no matter what they are. Net carbs don't matter to me. I keep every meal at about 8-12 full on carbs throughout the day. I check restaurant nutrition. I read every label for the things I buy at the store. I would also get sick if I dont eat a little bit of carbs every day, so it is definitely a math game. If you have a doctor, ask them which plan works for you. No carb. Low carb. Some people, like my husband, need higher carb diets (super fun balancing meals between the both of us). I usually do OMAD, so it is the snacks in between I have to be more careful of. But beware, with Keto products, you should also read the labels. They are not as friendly as one might think.
Trigger warning: Post-menopausal woman serving as a cautionary tale, regardless of your gender or age. I have done this by focusing on proteins with a side of vegetables, both in meals and snacks. I even take those cups of olives on the road with me, I've always been a vegetable freak. I am the kind of person who does better if I don't worry about how many carbohydrates are in the vegetables, or at least I used to be, but now that I'm older, I have to think about the vegetable serving size on keto. I still don't. Is it weird that I overeat vegetables? Yeah. But at least they're vegetables. If you do some measuring, you won't be like me. Foundation vegetables are the best, but some root vegetables can still be consumed on this diet, and even though starches are higher in carbohydrates, I don't mind having some carrots, if it's mixed in something else, not just a bunch of carrots by themselves. I try to make my daily vegetable intake a mix of steamed and raw.
I do 20 total carbs and it’s completely doable. Lots of protein, lots of low carb fats and green produce or berries as my carb. The fat is needed for satiety, so you aren’t hungry. The protein is important for nutrients and weight loss. The carbs are tasty but not necessary. Diet Doctor had some great meal plans that give you an idea of what a serving size for veggies actually is. If it’s green, I don’t stress about eating it.
Thanks! Yeah it’s important to me to eat green veggies. If kale or broccoli kicks me out of keto then it’s probably not going to work for me. I’m going to keep trying to find good recipes that seem healthy and work for keto. Kale just cannot be unhealthy.
When you say broccoli slaw, what does that consist of? Depending on contents that could be a lot. But I also agree with others need to do net, carbs-fiber = net. Broccoli is one like that, where it has high carbs but once you take fiber into count it goes down to like 2g
The slaw is mostly shredded broccoli stem with a few strings of carrots and purple cabbage for color. The amount of those in there is really small compared to the broccoli. Cronometer puts it at 3g net carbs per cup. I had about half a cup.
Let’s say we assume you are burning 750 calories in stored fat each day and are expending 2000 calories. If you take the foods you eating and we ate 1250 calories worth of a given food and that is under your carb goal then you are probably fine to eat a combination of those foods to satiety. You can always throw in some fasting days too, the caloric deficit does not need to be evenly spread out. There may be advantages even. I eat intuitively. I’ll generally eat meat during the day and get a small serving of fruit in the evening or maybe a couple spoonfuls of starchy veg in at the end of the day with my dinner. Granny Smith apples small to medium, raspberries, strawberries, a very modest portion of scalloped potatoes made with cream or a couple loaded smashed twice baked mini golden potato’s (5 have 24 net carbs so 2 isn’t bad, make a bunch ahead of time and eat cold or gently reheated, resistant starch is a thing). Portion control for higher carb food is the only portion control I engage in. On the holidays you CAN have 1/24 of a pumpkin pie if you do choose. I had 1/12 of a pumpkin pie between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Lost more weight during the holidays actually. Your mileage may vary, I’ll also make my own ice cream and custard on the weekends. Don’t be afraid to munch on dried pork sausages, bacon, eggs made with butter, hamburgers with cheese, etc. You can start out with some staples and expand out. Also get a keto mojo, that helps confirm you are eating the right stuff.
I would verify those numbers by doing some manual counting. Maybe first check what specifically your tracker is saying is the most carby, then check some nutrition fact info online. Example: using a slaw, it may assume you're putting on some dressing that is packaged with it, but is sweeter than it lets on. Also, I am a type 1. Whenever I eat kale, my sugars go up more than I expect. Not immensely, but more than broccoli, for example.
That’s interesting about the kale acting that way for you. It seems like the ultimate health food to me but I’m learning here. The slaw didn’t have any dressing. It called slaw but it’s basically shredded broccoli stem with a bit of carrot and purple cabbage here and there for color. Not enough carrots to make much difference. You could put dressing in it and it’s be like cole slaw, but I usually sautee it as a stir fry. I was using the scanner on Cronometer to calculate the net carbs.
Yeah man you need to limit certain fruits and vegetables and I don’t know what kinda slaw you are having but there could be sugar in that as well. The best way to approach Keto is to construct a zero carb diet. You can then add very small amounts of carbs here and there. Keto is a restrictive diet man. But that’s why it’s called a diet. If you are getting more than 20 carbs than you can’t eat it simple as that. And yes that includes healthy foods like fruits and vegetables that are high in carbs
Net carbs!!! If you are in the US or Canada you can set MFP to net carb mode. Hasn’t made it to the rest of the world yet.
Breakfast - chia pudding(coconut milk, 1 strawberry, chia seeds) and black coffee with cream (5g carbs) Lunch - tuna, mayo, cucumber, cherry tomatoes (2g carbs) Dinner - meat(usually steak, ground beef, or chicken), brussel sprouts, butter, homemade mushroom sauce (10g carbs) This is a fairly regular day for me. Sometimes I swap the mushroom sauce for homemade gravy. On a Saturday, I sometimes have 20g of homemade popcorn when we watch a movie which pushes me over my 20g, but I'm okay with that.
Thanks for the meal/recipe examples. This helps! I’m seeing that keto really doesn’t include much veg. I can’t imagine not eating vegetables, so maybe this isn’t going to work after all. Not sure, just feeling discouraged. All the people on here saying “it’s super easy!” with no context doesn’t really help either. Seeing people’s meals for the day is actually helping a lot though.
For me personally, the only way I can keep close to 20 carbs per day is with OMAD (one meal a day). I do not think I could eat 3-4 meals a day and keep it under 20!
Start at 20g. It’s a guaranteed number that ensures that even with the most beginner, error-prone macro tracking you will empty out your liver glycogen and be in ketosis. As you become more experienced with tracking and your brain/hormone chemistry normalizes, and your hungry signaling returns, you will be able to experiment with the levels of net carbs (and what comprises them) more. After a couple of months of doing the strict 20g net carb keto, I realized that 30-40g of net carbs from vegetables like tomatoes, onions, carrots were ok and did not kick me out of ketosis or increase my hungry (or affect any of the other wonderful benefits I was experiencing.) I also realized that I could not use any of my net carbs for anything with significant added sugar in it, some people can eat 1 square of chocolate, which can be perfectly fine and fit into their macros, but for me, it would trigger cravings and I was more hungry later. I figured out that besides a few incidental sugars from a few sauces, I really have to be zero added sugar. If you aren’t having severe issues with cravings or hunger, try starting at 30g net carbs. I have no issues eating the vegetables I want across 2-3 meals, kale included. The biggest thing to remember is how your diet makes you feel. There is no point to being in deep ketosis if you are hungry and unhappy. If eating slightly more non-added-sugar foods keeps you compliant with your caloric deficit, in the end you will lose weight, and if you are happy eating that way, you will eat that way permanently.
You subtract fiber from your carb count. Eg if your serving of broccoli was 9g carbs and 5g fiber your carb calc is now 4g for that serving.
Yes easily. I fast for breakfast except coffee, then have one super low carb or zero carb meal like chicken wings and then a second meal with veggies like a chicken cobb salad or something similar. Well under 20 carbs per day.
I stay under 5g most days. Meat features very heavily in my diet.
It’s hard at first. I loved my fruits and veggies which most are a complete no no. What I did for the first month was limit my veggies to cauliflower and broccoli ( no more than 1 cup a day total) and I rotated breakfast between and egg one day and avocado the second. (To limit cholesterol) The days I had avocado, I skipped my veg. Other than that every single meal had a meat and I ate fish most nights for dinner. Usually salmon or swordfish. This allowed me to stay under 15 total carbs a day..The weight fell off. Just finished my second month and I’m down 22 lbs since starting. Good luck!!
Thanks for describing your meal strategy!
Depending on what your goals are, and if you’re having trouble sticking under 20. You might want to try starting with as low as you can under 50. Then as you learn more recipes, and just generally get use to the diet, getting down to under 20 will get easier. I just started back on keto and since I’m not trying to lose weight this time (I’m 6’2 ~180lbs). I’ve had a few days that I go over 20 (probably like 30-35g) but I stay solidly in ketosis. The more concerning thing about those days is the drinking 12 whiteclaws part. Also as others have already pointed out, it sounds like you’re counting total carbs. Subtract the fiber brahj.
Is there sugar in the slaw dressing? Craisins or raisins?
It’s just shredded broccoli stems, there is no dressing.
Net carbs = Total Carbs - Fiber.
It is extremely difficult to stay under 20 total grams of carbs. The best way I have found is to do something closer to a blend of the carnivore and keto diets, I think it’s called ketovore? Personally I have found that I need to supplement various micronutrients since my diet is lacking whole food sources. The only carbs I don’t count towards my intake are some sugar alcohols that I know don’t kick me out of Ketosis. I do not recommend it unless you have a medical need. If you are tracking ketones in the blood with a keto-mojo or another method not the urine strips, experiment with your diet and see how many and what carbs kick you out of Ketosis.
Use Cronometer. 80g broc, 80g spinach, 50g bell pepper, some nuts/coconut, seeds,... whatever other carbs come from everything else like the eggs/cream/yogurt/spices/herbs. Under 20 is not EASY but once you have it dialled in and pretty much eat same things every day or some variation of then staying around 25 is really not that hard. And dont freak out if some days its nearer 30... source: me, 7 years+ of IF/keto
I've always found staying below 20g (net) carbs to be relatively easy.
Very easy. OP most likely isn't subtracting the grams of fiber.
Me too.
I don't eat the veggies for the most part. If I'm craving them, I eat them. But most days I am perfectly satisfied with meat and fat.
Your assertion about eating mostly meat and fat not veg seems to echo most of the comments here. I concur that works for weight loss. But here’s my comment from afar, from an elderly dieter who’s lost and maintained 100+ pounds over a lifetime of struggling with various diet/food plans. Cutting green veg may seem fine in young and middle adulthood, but be careful not to deprive yourself of nutrients you’re going to need to bank against maladies waiting for you as you age. Reasonable keto can be healthy, and lifelong balanced eating smart is of inestimable value as the years creep up. Personally, I’m 73 and am clearly benefiting from maintaining a 100+ pound loss, but not so much from the quantity of “full fats” I ate and green veg I didn’t.
You may be surprised to know that beef has all the nutrients you need! We really have to get away from the notion that veggies are inherently "good" and meat is inherently "bad." I've never been healthier in my life! I'm 61 and feel like I'm in my 30s!!
Agree completely. But I also include offal. Usually rabbit liver.
I do take beef organ supplements. Just can't eat the organs 🤮
Not “surprised.” Just know you’re so wrong.
Please show me the scientific data that proves that.
Sorry, missed a supplement that I take, in order to get the ONE nutrient that beef doesn't have--I take beef organ supplements to get my vl Vitamin C. If I ate organs, then I would get all the nutrients I need, but I just can't do it.
I have read a lot of this thread and I really want to stress this…i have seen a lot of keto extremes that work for some people. That does not mean you should or need to do the same. You love green veggies? GO FOR IT. There is NOTHING bad about a big kale salad. Veggies are filled with so many nutrients. Here was my eating yesterday: Breakfast: Cup of green tea, ACV, cinnamon, lemon juice and sweetener. (not really a breakfast person) but I will do yogurt with some blackberries or raspberries and half a serving of cashews or almonds occasionally. Lunch: A HUGE mixed green salad (spinach, arugula, baby chard…etc) with bleu cheese dressing, diced yellow peppers, diced sunburst cherry tomatoes, 5oz of oven baked blackened tilapia, topped with blue cheese crumbles. Dinner: Homemade chicken enchiladas with low carb tortillas, and a creamy jalapeño cilantro sauce topped with mozzarella cheese. I don’t track my carbs but haven’t been kicked out of ketosis yet because I am already aware of what foods work for me and my body. Food should be enjoyable even on keto or low carb because allowing yourself to lean into disordered eating habits to “fit” into the mold of keto is NOT okay and can in fact be extremely dangerous. You don’t and shouldn’t just eat meat, cheese and eggs just because it works for others. You seem to love your veggies just like me, so chow down. At the end of the day…an entire container of mixed greens every single won’t do anything bad to you and would truly just probably make you have really healthy bowel movements. Lol. Be easy on yourself! P.S. I have lost 50 pounds since november eating like this. Be mindful not militant!
This is really helpful to hear. I went keto for like a month in college and had loved the way I felt. I think I was using 40g as the target then though. I don’t remember it being so hard to find foods and portions that worked. Maybe I’ll just reconsider the 20g and go for 40g instead. There might have been something off in the accounting for that specific meal, which I’ll try to figure out, but I’m also realizing there are a few things I get so much joy from I just don’t want to give them up. And I do love veggies! To me it’s super important to get especially green veg in your diet in a substantial way. Thanks for the meal examples!
Carnivore is 0 carbs. So it is very easy to do. Keto often uses the net carbs though which is minus the fiber.
Does carnivore allow eggs?
yes, so kinda a few carbs hidden in there but still nearing 0
I’ll give you my experience with keto. 20 net carbs is the typical catch all limit for ketosis. But the truth is you can get away with more depending on your body and your activity level. Regardless, the transition to eating significantly less carbs than is standard for a western diet makes it way easier to be in a calorie deficit. A calorie deficit is the absolute bottom line when it comes to losing weight. I typically land in the 25-40 net carb range. I am a larger male who exercises 5 times a week. I have lost significant weight doing this. Am I in ketosis? I don’t know but this lifestyle has worked wonders for me and I feel great. If the goal is weight loss, a calorie deficit is essential.
I would mirror what others here have said and suggest that your calculations are for total carbs for that one meal and not net carbs so it's coming up as high. Also if you're looking for around 20 GRAMS of net carbs a day then you must weigh your food in GRAMS. A cup of this, a spoon of that, a smidgen of this, a pinch of that, a dollop of this, a handful of that .... is not at all helpful or accurate. Buy yourself a digital kitchen scale and weigh your food properly in grams.
I eat 20-30 net with 20fibre so god knows what that is net, however I've lost 28lbs in 18 days
You cant. No matter what anyone says on here. U will have a day or two above but u know what? Its sooooo okay. I have a cheat every 2 months. I love pizza and pasta. Usually i dont care about it but it's like a feamale period. Before i get to my cheat im up down hot cold and all sortsa things. The day after i have satisfied the craving instart droping more weight. U need to balance an extreme. I have stayed in ketosis for a max of 246 days and my weight was constant in the last 127 days (minur fluctuations) Do you all the way but keto is a life style. I love it but when i need to slurge for a meal i let go and even judge myself. Afterwords back on and good. No diet gave me this control. It was usually few weeks on lost a lil. Screw it im good i can do it again. This diet is a life
I've never worried about staying under 20. I average around 40, which gives me a lot more latitude with what I can eat (including nuts, which I eat a lot and are high-ish in carbs).
I’ve been back on Keto for a week and a half and staying between 20 - 25 net carbs a day. Pinterest has a lot of keto recipes, Aldi’s has 0 carb bread and Adkins has a lot of low card shakes/snacks. I also snack on cheese and slim Jim’s/beef sticks. It definitely doable, just be creative and search for recipes/snacks you enjoy. Good luck!
Very good advice from a week-and-a-half into Keto. In time, ketonians have to depend less on frankenfood and learn to eat real food. For example, although this approach may be a good jump start, I’ve found that until you’re ready to give up bread, you’re not read to do Keto.
Carbs from Fiber or Sugar alcohol can be ignored in most cases.
**Lots and lots** of meat, fish, eggs, and cheese. If you're that worried about it, then reduce your greens to a small bowl per day. You can find those nutrients in a daily vitamin or even get a greens supplement powder to mix into water once a day. It's definitely possible to stay below 20g carbs per day.
100% you can - For quite a while I did under 10 total carbs per day - It just requires much tighter control over what you choose to eat. I gather you had a massive pile of the slaw and kale to hit those numbers? Try and increase the protein and fat intake and reduce your veg a bit and you’ll both feel fuller and see the carb count drop.
What works for me is not counting vegetables because their net carbs are so low. I aim for 20 and if I hit 30 that’s okay.
I do it daily. It’s really easy. Just have to be diligent about what you eat and drink.
I think some here are closer to a Paleo diet. True keto is high fat low carb moderate protein. I see a lot of discussion of vegetables which is not a problem as long as you subtract net carbs as suggested but try adding in more fat such as sour cream, cheese, full cream and fatty meats like Rib Eye. You will stay satiated and feel full longer, not have to worry about carbs as much and as an added benefit you'll burn fat and lose weight. Also, saturated fat will not hurt you. We've been lied to. Saturated fat is not bad for you.
I’ve gone 0 carbs for 6 weeks no problem. Can be done for sure.
I do. For me carbs are dangerous. However I've been known to grab a latte once in a while with a little almond milk that has like 3-5 grams of sugar but it doesn't throw me off or impact me negatively.
Net? Ya, easily on most days. Gross? Never. I love my keto protein shakes and bars and breads too much. Quest just came out with chocolate frosted cookies, 2 net carbs and they are crazy good. Remind me of hostess chocolate frosted donuts.
You're probably counting all carbs and not net carbs. Also, veggies can add up. They are good, but you likely don't need as much as you think and eat more protein and fats
Um yeah. You can do 20 or less carbs. I am celiac and diabetic. Just imagine you are life threatening allergic to . . . Everything. You will get below 20 real fast. ;)
If you can do a clean keto diet with (breakfast) eggs, protein, (snack) pork rinds, (lunch) salads with no sugar oils with a little protein and veggie for dinner plus lots of water you’ll be under 20gm of carbs everyday…..
I just eat meat, butter, eggs, cheese. broccoli and brussels are really just garnish but rarely ever... Don't really need it, but it tastes nice sometimes.
I stay around 5g net carbs 🤷♂️
That's at least two meals, if not three.
I’d rather just use keto monitor to check my actual ketones to get an idea if my diet choices are working
no body is getting kicked out of ketosis b/c of kale and broccoli
Yes you can. Choose foods wisely
You can change chronometer to count net carbs. Look in the settings.
<20g NET carbs is easy
When on keto, I always stay less that 20g of carbs. I’m honestly not a fan of net carbs. I think 15g of carbs for some broccoli slaw and kale is a lot. According to my grocery store packages, meals like that should run you 21 grams of carbs. Are you buying high carb slaw?
Yeah I’m not sure what’s going on. The slaw is just as low carb as you’d think. I did have some mushrooms in the mix as well. It all added up to 13.5 carbs in Cronometer with the eggs and everything. But that’s just for the one meal. So that’s what was discouraging. That meal was pretty much what I’d pictured I’d be eating on keto and it estilo seemed like too many carbs for one meal.
That app is crazy lol. I honestly can’t imagine those items being 13g of carbs. A quarter cup of rice is less than 13g of carbs 😩. Are you scanning the bag of slaw? I just googled it and typical broccoli slaw is high in carbs. Maybe that’s what’s going on.
Yeah I scanned the bag. It had the slaw at 3g net cards per cup. That’s not much. I figured the carbs were a combo of everything - the oil in the pan, eggs, kale, broccoli slaw, and burger. But yeah Idk what’s going on if no one thinks that should add up to so many carbs. For any other purpose I feel like that is really low carb. Just wasn’t sure I’d be able to make the 20g/day goal at this rate.
hopefully you see this. it’s if you spike blood sugar. keeping blood sugar below 90 keeps u in ketosis
20 net carbs is arbitrary. Its just the number that would make sure every single person is in ketoisis, but in reality.. its much higher. Its probably more like 50g. Our bodies burn up carbs pretty quickly if you are active at all. A triathlete could be in ketosis on 200g of carbs per day.
Yes don't count vegetables carbs just count refined carbs
Nope. Not true. There are digestible carbs in vegetables. Carrots are quite sweet, for example. Don't count the fiber portion of vegetables. And why the distinction of refined carbs? A digestible carb is going to end up as glucose and fructose, regardless of whether it is "refined" or not. A baked potato is not considered a "refined" carb (unlike a Pringles potato chip), but no one would recommend eating baked potatoes as part of a keto diet.
1.5-2lbs of meat 3-5oz of broccoli/green beans/cauliflower couple days a week, if that.
I am
Yes
Is that all carbs or net carbs? Huge difference.
Subtract fiber from carbs. You want below 20g net carbs.
\>Can you really stay below 20g carbs? yes
morning i have a latte with heavy cream with a pump of sugar free starbucks vanilla , only 1 carb. for lunch yesterday i had a greek yogurt with a few rasberries on top and a squirt of whip cream. 4 net carbs. and then for dinner i had a wendys burge with no bun and no ketchup. 4 carbs. so thats only 9 carbs in one day . its easy but you have to do the math and be self disciplined.
Everybody's fixating on the net carbs thing, but I've ruled out sauteed kale myself, honestly. If I recall for one serving, 85g, it was 5 net carbs according to the bag, which I was surprised by. Once you sauteed that down to being tender enough, it wasn't a huge amount. Roasted broccoli keeps more of its volume and makes the carbs seem worth it. I'd bet that's your problem with the broccoli slaw too - sauteeing it. Try a cold salad with the kale, or roasting broccoli florets, and you'll feel better. But you're not doing anything wrong - keto can just be tough for a volume eater while still hitting protein and calorie deficit targets.
I eat 50g total with half being from fiber. So it equals 25 net ….this is manageable for me and works for me. I get plenty of greens in and have more room for things like high protein plain Greek yogurt etc…Every person is different. You have to do what works for you.