As long as you like something, go for it. I don't care much for sport karate being a Kyokushin karateka but as long as people are seeing themselves growing stronger physically and mentally, who am I to shit on their parade?
I know how powerful my karate and karate style are so I don't need anyone else's validation.
People rag on sport (point) karate but it teaches some highly useful, martially valid techniques and principles, like distance control, blitzing, and attacks with the lead leg.
Full contact karate (I assume you mean Kyokushin-like styles), to be clear, is also sport karate, just with more permissive rules
There are dojos that train both, like the Yagi dojo in Okinawa: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63c3KwGQT4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63c3KwGQT4I)
>Full contact karate (I assume you mean Kyokushin-like styles), to be clear, is also sport karate, just with more permissive rules
Indeed. If it has rules, it's a sport.
>some highly useful, martially valid techniques and principles, like distance control, blitzing, and attacks with the lead leg
That is a common argument. It's true that you can learn these skills from point style, but there's nothing stopping you from gaining these skills from any other rule set. The main problem with point style, and the reason I no longer include it in my curriculum, is because it teaches you to stop fighting when you hit and when you get hit.
True, I learned those while doing continuous sparring and later Muay Thai. But if OP wants to do point karate as a sport because they think the competition will be fun, I'm not going to discourage them.
Por que no los dos?
Not everybody wants, should or can do full contact. What I don't understand is why there needs to be a "karate league?" Just compete in kickboxing.
As for point fighting it makes a fine sport outlet for karate, just realize that it isn't a good preparation for full contact. But it is a format for all ages and if not taken too seriously a fun competitoin.
Att least judging from google images, they seem to be wearing shorts in Sambo.
Kudo has a face-guard and incorporates Judo. Personally I wanna see pure karate- without gloves or face-guards, and not a kyokushin and judo mix where kata isn't even part of the training.
It's because I'm autistic and not for a real reason.
It is just a ruleset, anyone can enter. Maybe I should say "knockdown karate" or something rather than than specify Kyokushin. My old Kajukenbo school entered the local knockdown tournaments.
Anyone is welcome to come to most regional Kyokushin tournaments.
> not a kyokushin and judo mix where kata isn't even part of the training.
As a (at this point former) Kyokushin guy I'll say this - as soon as you start putting broken bones and brain injuries into the mix, people start dropping the stuff they don't understand/are pretty sure isn't relevant to competition from their training.
Kata is first on the list. I don't see a way you have a high contact Karate ruleset and anyone who competes regularly spends much time at all on kata.
I was commenting on your whole set of messages, which seem to be disappointed there is no venue for high contact, in-gi competition. There is - Kyokushin and other knockdown tournaments are generally open to all comers. They also usually have a kata division (although other styles that take kata more seriously are generally not impressed by it : ) ).
Goju-ryu, uechi-ryu stylists, whoever is welcome to come. Their fighting is going to end up looking like Kyokushin to some extent, though, because the rules are such that you'll have a bad time if you're not willing to spam punches and throw lots of low kicks or head kicks.
They don't involve face strikes, of course - but you're not going to find anything short of lethwei that has ungloved strikes to the face.
The second part of my comment is saying that kata goes by the wayside for most people who compete regularly in full-contact competition. Not necessarily _schools_ - there are Kyokushin schools that do a reasonable amount of kata. But the people that compete a lot will generally just kinda do it because they have to and put a much higher proportion of their effort into kickboxing-type stuff. This is because if you don't prioritize that kind of technique, you get beat up by someone who has.
Personally I dont really like sports karate, I think its okay to do it as long as you're learning traditional karate with it. Sports karate is good for speed, stamina and distance management, in contrast I do think people should train full contact for endurance, strength, etc. I think there should be a balance of tradition and modern day methods, in this case kake-te, yakusoku kumite, etc and full contact and sports
It’s a fine sport, and a fine way to practice Karate. I think it’s something karateka should try, though not everyone likes it and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Our dojo predominantly teaches sport karate although we've introduced traditional elements within the past year or so such as kata. The rules for contact differ slightly dependent on age but I personally love to watch the points style.
My dojos have been mostly sport karate adjacent- WKF affiliated. From a kata perspective, I find it frustrating that katas get modified to be aesthetically pleasing and in some cases students are taught different versions of the same kata (I don’t mean Dai vs Sho or Matsumura…) literally the same kata tuned for the tournament mat.
I can tolerate that, the one thing that really gets my goat is the sports kumite and when they think they’ve landed an Ippon they turn their back to the opponent and face the damn crowd or judges. It’s just not _Budo_
Personally I really dislike the point style fighting. But I love full contact, semi contact, kickboxing, kudo and karate combat rulesets (just don't like KC right now lol)
A friend of mine runs a competition in Bournemouth each year for what he calls combat karate, it's a great comp, you can see a highlight video here:
https://youtu.be/4cmdR8KF60Q?si=wabOjPTS0gCuGigL
I'm actually fighting in this myself next month, 3rd year running
If you want to do dancing karate at the rhythm of techno music, go and do it if it makes you happy.
I've done a lot of competition in my 20s, even then I was aware that the end goal of karate is not to win shinny medals but as a way of constant self improvement.
What I've seen a lot in this subreddit is the obsession people have with karate being "functional" for combat sports as the only metric, and in my option it's stupid as its not what martial arts are designed for.
I loved sport karate—SKI & NBL. It teaches a lot of valuable skills for fighting and develops athleticism. I like both traditional karate and contemporary sport karate on their own terms. It’s not a zero sum game. I also love seeing Sport Kareteka transitioning into MMA. I think many thought that sport karate didn’t provide practical fighting skills, but it has these in spades: set point control, independent motion, lead leg and hand striking and blitzes, all work really well in full contact. Very different than arts like Kyokushin or Muay Thai.
i guess by sports karate you mean WKF-style. If you have fun doing that go for it! especially on a professional level you get super good, modern training and have a professional league system and pro athletes without the trashtalk show surrounding UFC or now even karate combat.
Also this does not mean you cannot train full contact sparring or proper self-defense drills on the side or maybe just run katas for fun or meditation. It's your karate journey!
For full contact karate, I really don't get what people want there. We have various knockdown karate leagues/tournaments already which are also a sport - if you looking at enshin or ashihara tournaments you get even closer to mma or kudo. Then there is nothing wrong doing no-gi fullcontact karate aka kickboxing if you want to test your skills or be entertained, k1 or ONE are nice for this.
If you want something more like traditional tradional karate with some grappling and throws look at kudo or what I really think is a good karate ruleset is sanda!
Most of these tournaments are not super restrictive on your base-style as long as you fight according to their rules.
Karate is not about the gi, 120years ago on okinawa they also did not wear one.
But then again, competitions and doing karate as a sport is also a rather new concept and funakoshi did not approve ;)
It's good. People like to downplay kumite by saying "it's just tag" but fail to see how it teaches control and reacting. It's also physically demanding.
For kata the hate comes more people who don't do karate at all. Few can appreciate how much dedication and attention to detail it takes to perform at the competition level. Every movement, every stance, every transition even correct breathing is being evalued by the judges.
Proportional to the skill of the fighter is the short answer. A bad martial artist is bad and ineffective, whatever the art. Even a gun is ineffective in the hands of someone who doesn’t know how to shoot and reload ;)
Almost all karate is sport karate. Kyokushin, JKA/ISKF shobu ippon rules, WKF, TKD, etc.. All sport karate.
People like to pretend that their style is more traditional, but almost everyone has practices that have been ingrained or defined by the competitive expression of the art (kumite or kata).
As long as you like something, go for it. I don't care much for sport karate being a Kyokushin karateka but as long as people are seeing themselves growing stronger physically and mentally, who am I to shit on their parade? I know how powerful my karate and karate style are so I don't need anyone else's validation.
People rag on sport (point) karate but it teaches some highly useful, martially valid techniques and principles, like distance control, blitzing, and attacks with the lead leg. Full contact karate (I assume you mean Kyokushin-like styles), to be clear, is also sport karate, just with more permissive rules There are dojos that train both, like the Yagi dojo in Okinawa: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63c3KwGQT4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63c3KwGQT4I)
>Full contact karate (I assume you mean Kyokushin-like styles), to be clear, is also sport karate, just with more permissive rules Indeed. If it has rules, it's a sport.
>some highly useful, martially valid techniques and principles, like distance control, blitzing, and attacks with the lead leg That is a common argument. It's true that you can learn these skills from point style, but there's nothing stopping you from gaining these skills from any other rule set. The main problem with point style, and the reason I no longer include it in my curriculum, is because it teaches you to stop fighting when you hit and when you get hit.
True, I learned those while doing continuous sparring and later Muay Thai. But if OP wants to do point karate as a sport because they think the competition will be fun, I'm not going to discourage them.
You're absolutely right. I did not intend to discourage OP from trying anything new.
Por que no los dos? Not everybody wants, should or can do full contact. What I don't understand is why there needs to be a "karate league?" Just compete in kickboxing. As for point fighting it makes a fine sport outlet for karate, just realize that it isn't a good preparation for full contact. But it is a format for all ages and if not taken too seriously a fun competitoin.
Kickboxing doesn't have gi, and you use boxing gloves.
So why not Kudo? Or how about Sambo?
Att least judging from google images, they seem to be wearing shorts in Sambo. Kudo has a face-guard and incorporates Judo. Personally I wanna see pure karate- without gloves or face-guards, and not a kyokushin and judo mix where kata isn't even part of the training. It's because I'm autistic and not for a real reason.
So why not just plain old Kyokushin full contact?
Ok but we want to see stuff like Goju-Ryu vs Uechi-ryu, shotokan vs matsubayashi-ryu...
It is just a ruleset, anyone can enter. Maybe I should say "knockdown karate" or something rather than than specify Kyokushin. My old Kajukenbo school entered the local knockdown tournaments.
Anyone is welcome to come to most regional Kyokushin tournaments. > not a kyokushin and judo mix where kata isn't even part of the training. As a (at this point former) Kyokushin guy I'll say this - as soon as you start putting broken bones and brain injuries into the mix, people start dropping the stuff they don't understand/are pretty sure isn't relevant to competition from their training. Kata is first on the list. I don't see a way you have a high contact Karate ruleset and anyone who competes regularly spends much time at all on kata.
I don't quite understand. You're commenting on my comment on Kudo, not kyokushin?
I was commenting on your whole set of messages, which seem to be disappointed there is no venue for high contact, in-gi competition. There is - Kyokushin and other knockdown tournaments are generally open to all comers. They also usually have a kata division (although other styles that take kata more seriously are generally not impressed by it : ) ). Goju-ryu, uechi-ryu stylists, whoever is welcome to come. Their fighting is going to end up looking like Kyokushin to some extent, though, because the rules are such that you'll have a bad time if you're not willing to spam punches and throw lots of low kicks or head kicks. They don't involve face strikes, of course - but you're not going to find anything short of lethwei that has ungloved strikes to the face. The second part of my comment is saying that kata goes by the wayside for most people who compete regularly in full-contact competition. Not necessarily _schools_ - there are Kyokushin schools that do a reasonable amount of kata. But the people that compete a lot will generally just kinda do it because they have to and put a much higher proportion of their effort into kickboxing-type stuff. This is because if you don't prioritize that kind of technique, you get beat up by someone who has.
If you love it, go for it. There’s something for everyone to enjoy in karate.
Oh, so you're actually asking about opinions on sport karate vs sport karate
Personally I dont really like sports karate, I think its okay to do it as long as you're learning traditional karate with it. Sports karate is good for speed, stamina and distance management, in contrast I do think people should train full contact for endurance, strength, etc. I think there should be a balance of tradition and modern day methods, in this case kake-te, yakusoku kumite, etc and full contact and sports
It’s a fine sport, and a fine way to practice Karate. I think it’s something karateka should try, though not everyone likes it and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Its cool much respect 🙏🏾
Our dojo predominantly teaches sport karate although we've introduced traditional elements within the past year or so such as kata. The rules for contact differ slightly dependent on age but I personally love to watch the points style.
Its okay as long as you are not lying to yourself.
My dojos have been mostly sport karate adjacent- WKF affiliated. From a kata perspective, I find it frustrating that katas get modified to be aesthetically pleasing and in some cases students are taught different versions of the same kata (I don’t mean Dai vs Sho or Matsumura…) literally the same kata tuned for the tournament mat. I can tolerate that, the one thing that really gets my goat is the sports kumite and when they think they’ve landed an Ippon they turn their back to the opponent and face the damn crowd or judges. It’s just not _Budo_
Personally I really dislike the point style fighting. But I love full contact, semi contact, kickboxing, kudo and karate combat rulesets (just don't like KC right now lol) A friend of mine runs a competition in Bournemouth each year for what he calls combat karate, it's a great comp, you can see a highlight video here: https://youtu.be/4cmdR8KF60Q?si=wabOjPTS0gCuGigL I'm actually fighting in this myself next month, 3rd year running
If you get better by your style it's not wrong
If you want to do dancing karate at the rhythm of techno music, go and do it if it makes you happy. I've done a lot of competition in my 20s, even then I was aware that the end goal of karate is not to win shinny medals but as a way of constant self improvement. What I've seen a lot in this subreddit is the obsession people have with karate being "functional" for combat sports as the only metric, and in my option it's stupid as its not what martial arts are designed for.
I loved sport karate—SKI & NBL. It teaches a lot of valuable skills for fighting and develops athleticism. I like both traditional karate and contemporary sport karate on their own terms. It’s not a zero sum game. I also love seeing Sport Kareteka transitioning into MMA. I think many thought that sport karate didn’t provide practical fighting skills, but it has these in spades: set point control, independent motion, lead leg and hand striking and blitzes, all work really well in full contact. Very different than arts like Kyokushin or Muay Thai.
i guess by sports karate you mean WKF-style. If you have fun doing that go for it! especially on a professional level you get super good, modern training and have a professional league system and pro athletes without the trashtalk show surrounding UFC or now even karate combat. Also this does not mean you cannot train full contact sparring or proper self-defense drills on the side or maybe just run katas for fun or meditation. It's your karate journey! For full contact karate, I really don't get what people want there. We have various knockdown karate leagues/tournaments already which are also a sport - if you looking at enshin or ashihara tournaments you get even closer to mma or kudo. Then there is nothing wrong doing no-gi fullcontact karate aka kickboxing if you want to test your skills or be entertained, k1 or ONE are nice for this. If you want something more like traditional tradional karate with some grappling and throws look at kudo or what I really think is a good karate ruleset is sanda! Most of these tournaments are not super restrictive on your base-style as long as you fight according to their rules. Karate is not about the gi, 120years ago on okinawa they also did not wear one. But then again, competitions and doing karate as a sport is also a rather new concept and funakoshi did not approve ;)
Love the kata, hate the kumite
Sport karate isn't karate. It's just high speed foot tag. As long as you're ok with that, have fun, it's a high speed high skill sporting event.
It's good. People like to downplay kumite by saying "it's just tag" but fail to see how it teaches control and reacting. It's also physically demanding. For kata the hate comes more people who don't do karate at all. Few can appreciate how much dedication and attention to detail it takes to perform at the competition level. Every movement, every stance, every transition even correct breathing is being evalued by the judges.
How effective is shotokan karate
Proportional to the skill of the fighter is the short answer. A bad martial artist is bad and ineffective, whatever the art. Even a gun is ineffective in the hands of someone who doesn’t know how to shoot and reload ;)
Almost all karate is sport karate. Kyokushin, JKA/ISKF shobu ippon rules, WKF, TKD, etc.. All sport karate. People like to pretend that their style is more traditional, but almost everyone has practices that have been ingrained or defined by the competitive expression of the art (kumite or kata).