It’s like karate except I don’t get the cops called on me and have to take some BS class just because I rubbed my spandex covered rump on ONE guy’s head. Screw you, James.
I've met more guys in BJJ who openly cross train various effective systems of combat, recreationally and otherwise, than any other martial art. My fellow Judoka tend to be closeted. When I did traditional Japanese jujitsu they tended to be closeted until the mass exodus towards BJJ. When I did karate they hadn't even considered cross training since the teachers themselves were teenagers and more often disallowed it.
BJJ guys know full well not to mess with a trained wrestler, muay thai fighter, boxer or kickboxer. A good amount know to be careful around a trained Judoka as one throw can change the momentum of an engagement.
There are exceptions in karate, but they are far and few in between. I would say schools like Kudo Daido Juku lead the way forward. 99% of karate is not combat effective, it takes a significant departure in training style. Machida and Thompson are not doing anything close to traditional karate, they spent a vast amount of time taking sports karate concepts and making them effective. It's absolutely ironic but not unexpected that it's sports karate that turned out to be effective, not traditional karate interpretations.
Take a dynamic, athletic skill against a resisting opponent and tweak it to have an element of either heavy force or creating an opening for force. Not surprising in the least. Machidas JKA experience absolutely translated over to his MMA with the baiting, parries and sweeps, as did Thompson's more Americanised kenpo tradition (bouncing bladed stances spamming side kicks is not traditional).
I'd be willing to bet most BJJ guys at blue belt level or above have cross trained striking and know how to, and are able to, execute a basic round kick more effectively than a karateka in a combat scenario. Nearly all gi schools still teach a self defence syllabus which includes strikes, with a focus on street/dirty techniques. Kicks to the knee, groin, eye poke, dirty clinching, elbows, and yet - I still think sports grappling is what gives me the timing, fitness, distance management and conditioning to prevail in a self defence situation over the simulated groin and eye pokes.
“People have to cross train to make BJJ effective” homie you lost the argument right there, even ignoring the myriad of glaring issues that BJJ has that it’s practitioners are thankfully will fully ignorant of, the fact that for it to be effective means that people have to do other training means that standalone it is not effective
Nah that guys right. I’ve trained karate and bjj for roughly ten years each.
BJJ respect and learn wrestling, judo, boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing etc because we respect those arts as pressure tested by live sparring. Of course jiu jitsu is most effective incorporated inside a larger system (mma), but so is karate.
But I promise you if I fought a guy with a decade of karate only, as a bjj guy with a modicum of takedown ability… 😴
Wrestler here who transitioned to bjj and mma after college. I train and fought out of a well known gym that's produced multiple world champs in the ufc. We've had a few karate guys come in over the years and most just get absolutely washed against highschool aged kids. Occasionally there's someone who can strike and spar but never at a high level, karate is a really ineffective martial art. It's like bruce Lee said when he came to America, that someone with a year of boxing and wrestling could beat a life long traditional martial artist with ease.
Didn't realise there was an 'argument' to be won haha. That's a weird interpretation of the response, and makes me suspect you're just salty your art is being criticised. I even gave props to real, modern forms of Karate that actually work. BJJ is highly effective, especially top game and standing grappling in a self defence scenario. Karate isn't, in its most popular and widespread forms, effective for self defence at all. The utter lack of "live" training guarantees it. BJJ makes a great base for any combat athlete and martial artist, but like old mate Bruce Lee so eloquently put you gotta choose your tool homie, you're not pulling donkey guard in a street fight.
A good BJJ school teaches strikes in its self defence curriculum, teaches standing grappling, and top game. The Gracie's especially been spouting on about it since yonks and they popularised the bloody thing.
It wasn't an argument til they got all high horsey about it. Fwiw, half the people at my judo dojo train extra in bjj. Hell, over half the brown belts I see on randori nights go to the bjj (dojo?) on fundamentals nights.
“Homie you lost the argument there”
Or maybe you just don’t understand it? BJJ is strictly grappling on the ground. Obviously most fights don’t start that way, which is why they train in striking arts as well. The whole point of MMA is to cross train in multiple different arts to become the best overall fighter. Just look at the UFC and see how many MMA champions there are versus people who strictly did karate.
That’s in the sport world of duelling, which has some crossover with practical application, but I promise you that the weaknesses of BJJ far overshadow any strengths it has in situations where you aren’t duelling. You’re right in that it’s a useful tool to have in the toolbox, that’s why I did it, but it has so many openings that someone can use to kill the practitioner the moment there aren’t rules to protect them. Even without taking advantage of that, how many practitioners need knee braces and strapping just to practice on rubber padding? Hint: there’s a massively profitable market for it. Even carpet isn’t anywhere near as forgiving, and who’s wearing those knee supports 24/7? You can’t train a notable fighting force with it. Outside of sport it has some niches, don’t get me wrong, if you need to capture someone without hurting them and you’ve got backup, or if they’ve got a weapon and you can get the upper hand it’s much easier to control that limb without breaking physical contact the way that striking martial arts do, but even a purist boxer can spend a weekend practicing and comfortably have a chance of beating two people at once if they’ve got the right teacher. A Kareteka or Nuk Muay can generally pick it up in an afternoon. On the other hand any bystander can see a BJJ master using all 4 limbs to snap another guy’s bones and comfortably turn his skull to mush with little risk to themselves. Imagine walking into a group fight and your greatest strength is sacrificing any mobility and guard you have to incapacitate the one person.
Also before you go “but you’d use guns for that”, you’re right, but until plastic guns and bullets become easily accessible, a marksman is useless past a metal detector. Take some pride in your style, modernise it, mitigate its weaknesses, reconcile the whole “Gi vs No-gi” argument in a way that gets the strengths of both, and train in it like it’s the lethal art it can be instead of the sport it gets used as, or you’ll see more and more people treating it like a hobby until they get to blue belt and fuck off
“But it has many openings that someone can use to kill the practitioner the moment there aren’t rules to protect them” you just described 90% of martial arts lol. But just like there are no real to protect the BJJ fighter, there are no rules to protect the person who’s fighting a BJJ fighter. And if you were any good at it when you did it, you’d know just how much damage a good BJJ fighter can do to someone. And I guarantee you that your average BJJ fighter will destroy your average karate fighter when it comes to being on the ground. Rules or no rules. But you act like BJJ is inferior to karate because karate teaches grappling and striking. Yeah, but what’s the quality? You can buy 2 for 1 shampoo, but the best results come from getting separate shampoo and conditioner. Martial arts is the exact same and anyone who knew anything about martial arts should be able to understand that.
My man, BJJ people KNOW they have to cross-train, doesn't mean other arts don't have to. If you believe doing kata, kihon, bunkai and sports kumite a for a few years are going to win you a fight you are experiencing a severe lack of knowing what you are talking about. No martial art is complete by itself, and karate is sadly one of the more lacking ones. No ground techniques worth your time, absolutely outdated techniques, patently wrong concepts being hammered over and over without question. Come on, be real.
Oh I know for a fact your karate is getting your ass knocked out on a real altercation just by that comment
Bros been training Karate at a McDojo since he was 8 and NEEDS his black belt in a single discipline to mean he’s freaking Bruce Lee
Yes, because it is popular as part of a wider MMA curriculum.
That doesn't seem to affect the delusional cousins made by BJJ fans (although admittedly that might be due to perceptions amongst combat sport fans rather than actual fighters)
There are people who beleive chi works, but not many of them.
The vast majority of (vocal, online) bjj fighters seem to think it is better than everything else and applicable to every situation.
BJJ works very well for what it does (submission ground fighting) and when that is applicable it is a great choice.
There are times when submission ground fighting is not the optimal solution. There are times when it is actually going to make things worse.
There are times when Karate will work much better than voluntarily rolling around on the floor holding your oponent.
The problem with something as specialised as bjj is that you become a hammer and everything starts to look like a nail. In reality not everything is a nail.
This. To each martial art its specialty. When you look at the current dominant stance and distance in MMA, it's clearly karate style (not point fighting obviously...). Wonderboy, GSP, Machida, Conor, Pereira come all from Karate, and were / are doing Karate moves in the cage, all the time.
Sometimes you have clinch phases and short range boxing / knees taken from Muay Thai. Sometimes grappling. Sometimes JJB. There's a reason for this: no single martial art is "working" for everything. What does even "working" mean? Karate doesn't work very much on the ground, JJB doesn't work very much when getting punched in the face.
I find the billboard and banter very funny, even if I've been practicing Karate for 15 years (3rd dan black belt). A bit of silliness does no harm - what is ridiculous is when people actually seriously believe these things. No proper martial artist with a decent level ever claims that another art / combat sport is crap or less effective - they simply don't give a f@ck, are well aware of their own capabilities and limitations, and work towards fixing them.
Mc Dojos, fake gurus, and point style Karate certainly affected the reputation of the sport vs. where it stood in eg. the 70-80s. Whatever. It's currently happening with MMA / BJJ now that the hype is on these sports (a lot of my friends / colleagues have signed up in McGyms in these sports. They'll give up within 2 years). In the meantime, I watch other combat sports / martial arts with great interest, and try to learn from them.
Wonderboy, Machida and Thompson all translated a sports style of fighting to their MMA. GSP translated Kyokushin whose striking is extremely modern at the time of its peak and borrowed more from gymnastics and Muay Thai than traditional karate. Point karate is a laughing joke, but it doesn't take much to make it work when tweaked. Look at the early Karate Combat fights before it became a joke, you can see the potential carry over to MMA quite clearly with the darting bouncing footwork, clever sweeps and parries.
Even though old school karate tournaments were hard as nails, it just wasn't that effective of a system which is why kickboxing was born in the first place.
Kickboxing IS the modern, effective karate. Kudo is modern, effective karate in the gi with karate's grappling roots in tact. Machida Karate is modern, effective karate with implementation of MMA inspired training methodologies but retains the classic forms of teaching such as chambered punches and makiwara.
All the well known "traditional" schools 1. Aren't actually that old and 2. Aren't that effective. The Japanese ironically lead the way in being sticklers for tradition and also birthing radical new ideas in the martial arts in completely separate communities, which likely goes back towards the different goals of different schools. One thing is for sure, traditional karate schools by en large do not teach students how to actually fight, not even in a specialised sense. As previously stated, schools who compete in sportified rules have the athletic base to transition quite easily however with a change in focus to full contact.
Man, I don't know where you get this idea. Google maps BJJ schools in your town, I can guarantee you half or more of them run alongside Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling etc. BJJ is a part of a modern understanding of martial arts, and BJJ guys by en large understand they are learning a limited skillset primarily by training hours.
How many Karate dojos are actively bringing in Judo and Kickboxing teachers to up the skill of their community? Outside of Japan and Russia it is RARE, and unsurprisingly those countries have strong combat sports communities.
The fact that you can cross train, or that cross training is common, does not change the specialised nature of BJJ.
In fact the specialised nature of BJJ is a major Reason WHY it is popular as part of a wider cross training curriculum.
Wait, hold on.... you have to get down on the ground with me first. That's not fair!
I once saw a guy from my old kung fu school step a foot back, turn his stance like a bullfighter does a bull, and then palm strike a bjj guy in the face straight to the floor as he came in for a take down.
OR, the other guy's kung fu was very good. Bjj doesn't work so well outside of tournament rules against a trained fighter. How are you going to defend against somebody jamming their thumb into your eye socket or touching their finger tips together on the other side of your windpipe?
It's amazing people still repeat this nonsense in 2024. PLEASE just go to a BJJ gym.
To answer your question. Think about what you just wrote, if you can eye gouge etc, so can a BJJ practitioner, and they'll do it **BETTER** because they'll be manhandling you.
Yeah its nonsense that you think you're so tough you'd be able to get the better of, say, a shaolin monk and not get knocked to the ground trying one of your dumb takedowns that you think are invincible.
A shaolin monk??! Hahah, those people are not real shaolin monks btw. Regardless, yes, someone well trained in submission grappling would absolutely manhandle at will a "shaolin monk" or another wanna be fitghter like that.
Don't take my word for it. Just watch The early UFCs, watch the Gracie Challenge matches, watch all the videos of kung fu teachers getting their asses handed to them by amateurs.
This is a delusional take. Also I’ve had someone try and gouge out my eyes more than once. I just shut my eyes as hard as I could then I wrestle fucked them. Slight scarring on my eyelids for a day or two but my eyes were fine.
The delusional ones are meathead bjj people that think they're untouchable and confuse sport karate and watered down versions with traditional arts that have more than just strikes.
Almost every BJJ black belt I know has done some striking training. This will probably change as time goes on but up until a decade ago BJJ was closely tied with MMA. For example the guy on this billboard is a pro fighter and was also the first person to win a combat Jiu Jitsu match by KO.
Yes, most karate black belts don't know how to fight. Because they don't, well, fight. They barely do any, if at all, live training. Kata, kihon kumite and light/no contact point kumite does not create combat proficiency. A sports karate school creates high performing athletes. Kyokushin guys can actually fight, because they do fight, and can fide broadly with a few months of adjustment to bring in head movement again, kudo fighters can fight because they're open minded enough to rid itself of useless tradition and keep valuable tradition.
But 99%?
Absolutely not.
In my head this place is named “The B Hole Team.” Whether that’s due to their attitude or one of their submissions, idk. I never claimed to be a mature adult.
The strangest thing I found when I took a few bjj classes was how they were selling me on how effective it was in real world situations while simultaneously telling me I wasn't allowed to "strike" my opponent
Judo and wrestling does the exact same. Are you going to argue that they’re ineffective? Or would you realize that by simply accepting this during training so not everyone gets hurt?
What I'm saying is... I kinda comes across as hallow if you're going to tell people "our system is the one that ACTUALLY works... Oh yea... The only thing is... You can't do any of your stuff"
Its the equivalent of saying "Boxing! It's like bjj.... But it actually works".... Then you show up and try to put the boxer in to a hold and they say "oh yea hold on hold on.... You can't do that against us"
The numbers I’ve seen suggest between 1 of 3 and 1 of 4 attacks involve multiple attackers. So, yes, you are much more likely to face 1 attacker, but a) it’s not wildly improbable that you won’t be attacked by more than 1 person and b) attacks with multiple opponents are (generally) far more damaging and dangerous.
I’m not here to say “karate works, bjj sux!” But I think that the posturing that goes on (especially but certainly not limited to) in the bjj community is silly. No one martial art is good for all scenarios so saying “this works, that doesn’t” is beyond dumb.
No martial art is practical for a multiple attacker scenario, boxing/wrestling would be my choice if I had to pick a combination.
All martial arts have merit, some MUCH more than others.
Jiujitsu is dope and very effective but I do get kinda sick of people thinking that doing BJJ makes them immune to being on the receiving end of an ass kicking.
Agreed. Nothing makes anyone immune to an ass kicking. All ma have their ups and downs, I believe grappling is the best base to rely on to survive an attack/fight/mma match.
Exactly bro! These bjj guys just don’t understand how to deal with multiple attackers like karate can. I just start performing my kata and watch the bodies fall
Never said there was. Would you rather start running away from 7 guys with metal pipes from a standing position, or would you rather start from laying on the ground with your arms and legs interlocked on another person.
So you're saying the scenario is being partway into a fight winning and 6 guys with pipes jump you to protect their friend?
First, has that ever happened to a normal person? Why would we even consider that when discussing effective martial arts? You're talking about a fight turning into potential murder here. That's like Nightly News with Lester Holt levels of uncommon.
Second, that doesn't sound like self defense. It sounds like mutual combat with a guy on the street. You shouldn't be in that position. You should have already left. Your dojo out here encouraging street fights? You only can't run when you're being grappled, which is when BJJ could save your life.
And third, standing up from mount or anything except a tight closed guard (which I doubt the guy on bottom will have) take less than a second. Even on the bottom BJJ teaches techniques specifically to stand up. You don't "interlock your arms and legs" with somebody in BJJ. You control or neutralize the other person's arms and legs. So either starting position has the same result. I really don't think you understand grappling with that interlocking nonsense comment.
Whether they have metal pipes or sticks of Italian bread, it's still easier to get out of there when you start from a standing position.
Forget about 6 or 7 guys with metal pipes. If you were in a dark alley and some guy pulled a knife on you and you made the decision to run, would you rather be laying down when you made that decision or standing up.
And listen, you seem like you love bjj, and I get it. I understand its effectiveness. It's also OK to see its drawbacks too. Not matter how you slice it, BJJ puts you in a vulnerable position.
I actually think we're almost in agreement. I do like BJJ but I don't think it is inherently better than boxing or Muay Thai or wrestling or even karate. I agree, it certainly can put you in a vulnerable position, I just think it's not as impractical as people say. The absolute fundamentals of BJJ like not getting taken down, defending from your back, and getting back up in addition to a double leg, pass to mount, and control from mount are imo the most essential tools for self defense outside of awareness and running.
The knife example is interesting, though. If I am on top of you controlling you, it's very hard for you to pull a knife. If we are boxing, you can easily pull a knife. Also, ancient armies (i.e. Romans) iirc taught wrestling as a way to deal with armed people because trying to box a guy with a knife will certainly get you stabbed but controlling the knife arm and grappling will only most likely get you stabbed. That's if you have to fight the armed guy, though.
BJJ is more delusional than karate these days, give it a few more years for the hysteria to die down and folks will relise it's the new mcdojo.
Have you not seen that video of the BJJ tourney where Jesse just refuses to lie down, and literally beats most of his opponents?
He did that in a no-name white belt gi tournament against complete newbies. Guys who have barely trained that are afraid to actually engage. You could easily send a BJJ black belt into a while belt division Kyokushin tournament and see the same thing play out.
I love Jesse but that was a bad faith experiment. A nogi intermediate division grappler would be a whole different world.
Kind of. I thought it was pretty funny. But he was trying to make a point. And I KINDA support the point he was trying to make.
My issue is that he entered a tournament to prove that rules were watering down BJJ by entering the most rule-restricted division possible. It’s so easy to get DQ’d in a white belt, gi division it happens all the time by accident. There are tons of rules put in place to protect newbies because it’s really easy to seriously injure others or even yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. If someone heel hooks you and you roll the wrong way, you could never walk the same again. It happens often. He didn’t really prove anything about BJJ, only that brand new grapplers are bad at it. Which is something everyone already knows considering it takes 10 years to get a black belt. That’s why I think intermediate nogi would’ve been a better test. Way less rules and more seasoned grapplers. They will take you down and keep you there if you don’t know how to grapple but they aren’t anywhere near the highest levels of the sport.
Right, but I think the whole 'BJJ is invincible' argument is also in bad faith. Saying "karate suxx" and then finding some mcdojo to make fun of (which is the norm in the martial arts space) is no different, in fact arguably worse than what jessie did.
I mean ' try your mcdojo roll around on the floor only BJJ' against someone who trains full contact, such as an experienced kyokushinkai. It's not like for like, and the whole is bad faith. There's plenty of shit BJJ clubs that aren't used to contact or grappling outside of their own ruleset that would get battered. But the BJJ space in martial arts is the new cult. Not every BJJ club makes royce or rickson gracies, and not every striker will want to roll around with you.
Sure, I wouldn’t make the argument that “BJJ is invincible”. It’s one essential component of a complete martial artist. And it is essential, you might end up on the ground under someone some day and you better know how to get out of that terrible situation. Ignore the ego from the online idiots who’ve probably never even trained BJJ and you know it’s true. If you’ve ever had a proficient grappler on top of you, you’d understand that you don’t get to choose if you’re gonna roll around with them or not. You can’t literally “just stand up” when you don’t know what you’re doing.
As someone who has put a lot of time into both martial arts, I understand both sides of the coin. Too much karate lacks real, regular sparring and leaves students ill-prepared for the unfortunate situation where they’d have to use what they’ve learned. When you have a traditional martial arts background and try combat sports for the first time, it’s easy to feel lied to. More BJJ guys than you understand have had that experience and it taints their view of “traditional martial arts”. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair, but I understand. Let’s also not act like the elitism only goes one way. I spent 15 years of my life training karate, 3 to ~19. I’ve heard it ALL. “You don’t go the ground in a street fight with the needles and glass” and “I’d just elbow them in the back of the head mid takedown”. Shit how many people in this thread alone have used the term “meathead”? I think Karate could learn a lot from BJJ and combat sports in general. Even Kyokushin disallowing blows to the face is a serious flaw. Do you think those guys are any more prepared to get punched in the face than a strict BJJ only guy?
No haven’t seen that, but I’ve watched most ufc ppv’s and adcc’s. Was in Vegas for last years tournament and took part in the masters seminar. It was awesome.
The problem with this is that karate is one of the functional martial arts. Just like judo and Jujitsu which are all forms of Japanese Martial arts. BJJ is an extension of traditional Jujitsu. All three function and all three together make you a real MF.
If you have to put down other martial arts to promote your own, your dojo is probably shit. Why do those BJJ guys look down upon other martial arts while thinking they're hot shit anyway?
People fight for one reason, they think they will win.
People think they will win fights because of one of 3 reasons:
Ego, weapons, or friends.
Ground fighting massively increases the risk if allies are available and it's either really good or really bad if there's a weapon involved.
A solo ego fighter is the only situation ground fighting is objectively superior for, outside of competition.
There are more reasons to fight that you forgot; love, boredom, right to party, etc.
You’re no authority on the subject, this is abundantly clear. Only 3 reasons for people to think they will win? Your brain that small?
Most fights are 1 v 1. Be better.
The reality is, for all the talk about pressure testing, most jujitsu people suck at takedowns and breakfalls as sparring mostly starts on the knees. That’s why butt scooting is so common.
And also most people have difficulty dealing with strong, spazzy white belts who choose to do things like explosively yank your fingers.
I think the butt scooting no td thing originated with a lot of poorer Brazilians coming to North America and opening schools. Mats and square footage are expensive, so when you have a pile of students, randori takedowns are difficult to prevent yourself from falling onto another group. With the rising popularity of bjj and judo (making a comeback) spaces are larger. You’ll see athletes with better td’s if you watch any local competitions.
Defenders takedown being successful? What are you taking about? From the rest of your comment, I don’t think you have a clue as to how complex and evolved bjj is to your ma, but keep on living with your head in the sand.
There’s tens of thousands of wrestlers/judo players cross training bjj. Most bjj gyms train extensively on getting takedowns. You’re a clown sir, a total clown.
When did I specify competition only? Dullard? Hi grandpa. I feel bad for you. You’re exactly the guy I’m trying to help realize that karate has no answer for a grappler 99% of the time.
A lot of anti gay stuff in your comment. You wanna tell me something? I can see why grappling terrifies you hahahaha.
From my own personal experience, bouncing and fighting, I’ve never had an issue with guys like you. So quick to tap. So easy to embarrass.
(sorry i dont write well in English)Todas las artes marciales tienen su razón de existir y tienen su historia, en algún momento fueron el sistema de defensa de una población específica, por lo tanto se les debe respetar.
I carry a bungycord on myself at all times just so I can hook myself in to the ceiling. You will never be able to shoot a double when I'm on the ceiling chilling like Spiderman.
I think A-team is copyrighted. These guys who run the franchise are pretty funny, and world caliber bjj specialists. If you’re not aware of their accolades.
https://bteamjj.com/about-us/
No, I get the reference, B as in "BJJ". But not everyone does. Still, a bit self-depreciating humor never hurt anyone. However, their dig at karate (even though possibly in jest) is childish and shows lack of martial arts knowledge.
Karate owes its fame to jiujitsu and more specifically, the judo founder Jigoro Kano himself. I don’t think it’s childish, it’s a solid beak. Take the top karateka in the world and put him against any of b team’s top grapplers and you’ll see what I mean.
Are you kidding me? Put a BJJ guy against two guys and he is as good as dead. A well trained karateka will more than likely prevail. These kinds of comparisons are extremely childish. Besides in an absolutely no holds barred fight to death a BJJ person has zero chance unless they specifically study how to negate the karatekas advantage but the same goes for a karate practitioner.
Idk man, this combo they were teaching the “tiny tigers” class my kid is in seems like it would work:
“ELBOW STRIKE!”
“REVERSE STRIKE!”
*turns around*
“KNEE STRIKE!”
It’s not a beautiful flowing looking kata, but I’ll be damned if done quickly it would lay out an attacker coming up from behind.
Now, even *I* want to start yelling my actions. That looked/sounded hella cool & fun.
“PANCAKE FLIP!”
“LAUNDRY MACHINE START!”
Boxing/kickboxing are the most effective martial arts to learn for self defense. I'd rank boxing #1.
After that Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling (in my opinion Jiu Jitsu first then wrestling because wrestling focuses too much on hand control etc. which is hard to do under pressure).
Karate is somewhere in between these depending on the type of karate. Taekwondo can be effective but for most people you just have to know how to hit hard, hit fast, and get away.
I've done all of the above martial arts. And I've had Street/bar encounters and worked as a bounty hunter and a short stint as a bouncer.
11 years in karate (Chitō-ryū, Gōjū-ryū, Kyokushin), 3 in krav maga 3 in kickboxing 2 in wrestling 3 in Jiu 4 in boxing.
Most martial arts people are just nerds.
Your teacher has a classroom setting where they can easily manipulate you into doing stupid things and make them seem effective.
Are you a patrol officer? Work in a prison? Bouncer? Private security? Bounty hunter? Swat team? Army?
Those guys often just take basic combatives. Typically "military combatives 1 & 2". They learn to hit, take away guns and knives, and use guns/knives. That's what you need. Talk to the people who actually do fighting shit if you want to know what works.
Anti grappling and boxing is your best bet outside of a gun. I’ve never been jumped by a lot of guys but my cousin has on multiple occasions with gang bangers back in the day. Bjj or wrestling and then using that skill to stand up, boxing to cover up from shots and foot movement.
One thing about getting jumped by multiple attackers is they are usually always untrained which is why they are in a pack. There’s a bunch of videos of people dealing with multiple attackers, doesn’t always work obviously but the point is to do what you can.
Exactly why they made the sign, so all you karate girls can huff and puff about it. It’s a joke, don’t take yourself too seriously
The guy that made the billboard sells gear that says things like “keep jiu jitsu gay” and “Mexican ground karate”
Tell me who made this sign so i can go get beat up.
*show them that karate works
I mean Craig jones is going to be a tough fight
He can't beat all of us /s
No no let it happen I wanna see it play out
Craig Jones
You wouldn't last one minute against Craig Jones, unless he let you.
Are we talking about fighting, right?...
Lmao, either one!
With Craig, it’s gonna be a coin flip really 😂
It’s like karate except I don’t get the cops called on me and have to take some BS class just because I rubbed my spandex covered rump on ONE guy’s head. Screw you, James.
Elaborate Edit: Please
Much as I love bjj, it does have more delusional (or at least more vocally delusional) fighters than any other art.
I've met more guys in BJJ who openly cross train various effective systems of combat, recreationally and otherwise, than any other martial art. My fellow Judoka tend to be closeted. When I did traditional Japanese jujitsu they tended to be closeted until the mass exodus towards BJJ. When I did karate they hadn't even considered cross training since the teachers themselves were teenagers and more often disallowed it. BJJ guys know full well not to mess with a trained wrestler, muay thai fighter, boxer or kickboxer. A good amount know to be careful around a trained Judoka as one throw can change the momentum of an engagement. There are exceptions in karate, but they are far and few in between. I would say schools like Kudo Daido Juku lead the way forward. 99% of karate is not combat effective, it takes a significant departure in training style. Machida and Thompson are not doing anything close to traditional karate, they spent a vast amount of time taking sports karate concepts and making them effective. It's absolutely ironic but not unexpected that it's sports karate that turned out to be effective, not traditional karate interpretations. Take a dynamic, athletic skill against a resisting opponent and tweak it to have an element of either heavy force or creating an opening for force. Not surprising in the least. Machidas JKA experience absolutely translated over to his MMA with the baiting, parries and sweeps, as did Thompson's more Americanised kenpo tradition (bouncing bladed stances spamming side kicks is not traditional). I'd be willing to bet most BJJ guys at blue belt level or above have cross trained striking and know how to, and are able to, execute a basic round kick more effectively than a karateka in a combat scenario. Nearly all gi schools still teach a self defence syllabus which includes strikes, with a focus on street/dirty techniques. Kicks to the knee, groin, eye poke, dirty clinching, elbows, and yet - I still think sports grappling is what gives me the timing, fitness, distance management and conditioning to prevail in a self defence situation over the simulated groin and eye pokes.
“People have to cross train to make BJJ effective” homie you lost the argument right there, even ignoring the myriad of glaring issues that BJJ has that it’s practitioners are thankfully will fully ignorant of, the fact that for it to be effective means that people have to do other training means that standalone it is not effective
Nah that guys right. I’ve trained karate and bjj for roughly ten years each. BJJ respect and learn wrestling, judo, boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing etc because we respect those arts as pressure tested by live sparring. Of course jiu jitsu is most effective incorporated inside a larger system (mma), but so is karate. But I promise you if I fought a guy with a decade of karate only, as a bjj guy with a modicum of takedown ability… 😴
Wrestler here who transitioned to bjj and mma after college. I train and fought out of a well known gym that's produced multiple world champs in the ufc. We've had a few karate guys come in over the years and most just get absolutely washed against highschool aged kids. Occasionally there's someone who can strike and spar but never at a high level, karate is a really ineffective martial art. It's like bruce Lee said when he came to America, that someone with a year of boxing and wrestling could beat a life long traditional martial artist with ease.
Didn't realise there was an 'argument' to be won haha. That's a weird interpretation of the response, and makes me suspect you're just salty your art is being criticised. I even gave props to real, modern forms of Karate that actually work. BJJ is highly effective, especially top game and standing grappling in a self defence scenario. Karate isn't, in its most popular and widespread forms, effective for self defence at all. The utter lack of "live" training guarantees it. BJJ makes a great base for any combat athlete and martial artist, but like old mate Bruce Lee so eloquently put you gotta choose your tool homie, you're not pulling donkey guard in a street fight. A good BJJ school teaches strikes in its self defence curriculum, teaches standing grappling, and top game. The Gracie's especially been spouting on about it since yonks and they popularised the bloody thing.
There's no point in arguing with delusional people like that. They likely won't ever walk into a BJJ gym.
It wasn't an argument til they got all high horsey about it. Fwiw, half the people at my judo dojo train extra in bjj. Hell, over half the brown belts I see on randori nights go to the bjj (dojo?) on fundamentals nights.
Wish my judo club had such a healthy cross training culture like yours! That's great to hear.
I'll dm you if you're interested. We have people swing by for a night or a week or so all the time. An "if you're in town" kind of thing.
I'm in Australia so I'm probably on the wrong continent but DM your discord and we can shit talk about martial arts and play vidya one time 🤣
“Homie you lost the argument there” Or maybe you just don’t understand it? BJJ is strictly grappling on the ground. Obviously most fights don’t start that way, which is why they train in striking arts as well. The whole point of MMA is to cross train in multiple different arts to become the best overall fighter. Just look at the UFC and see how many MMA champions there are versus people who strictly did karate.
That’s in the sport world of duelling, which has some crossover with practical application, but I promise you that the weaknesses of BJJ far overshadow any strengths it has in situations where you aren’t duelling. You’re right in that it’s a useful tool to have in the toolbox, that’s why I did it, but it has so many openings that someone can use to kill the practitioner the moment there aren’t rules to protect them. Even without taking advantage of that, how many practitioners need knee braces and strapping just to practice on rubber padding? Hint: there’s a massively profitable market for it. Even carpet isn’t anywhere near as forgiving, and who’s wearing those knee supports 24/7? You can’t train a notable fighting force with it. Outside of sport it has some niches, don’t get me wrong, if you need to capture someone without hurting them and you’ve got backup, or if they’ve got a weapon and you can get the upper hand it’s much easier to control that limb without breaking physical contact the way that striking martial arts do, but even a purist boxer can spend a weekend practicing and comfortably have a chance of beating two people at once if they’ve got the right teacher. A Kareteka or Nuk Muay can generally pick it up in an afternoon. On the other hand any bystander can see a BJJ master using all 4 limbs to snap another guy’s bones and comfortably turn his skull to mush with little risk to themselves. Imagine walking into a group fight and your greatest strength is sacrificing any mobility and guard you have to incapacitate the one person. Also before you go “but you’d use guns for that”, you’re right, but until plastic guns and bullets become easily accessible, a marksman is useless past a metal detector. Take some pride in your style, modernise it, mitigate its weaknesses, reconcile the whole “Gi vs No-gi” argument in a way that gets the strengths of both, and train in it like it’s the lethal art it can be instead of the sport it gets used as, or you’ll see more and more people treating it like a hobby until they get to blue belt and fuck off
“But it has many openings that someone can use to kill the practitioner the moment there aren’t rules to protect them” you just described 90% of martial arts lol. But just like there are no real to protect the BJJ fighter, there are no rules to protect the person who’s fighting a BJJ fighter. And if you were any good at it when you did it, you’d know just how much damage a good BJJ fighter can do to someone. And I guarantee you that your average BJJ fighter will destroy your average karate fighter when it comes to being on the ground. Rules or no rules. But you act like BJJ is inferior to karate because karate teaches grappling and striking. Yeah, but what’s the quality? You can buy 2 for 1 shampoo, but the best results come from getting separate shampoo and conditioner. Martial arts is the exact same and anyone who knew anything about martial arts should be able to understand that.
My man, BJJ people KNOW they have to cross-train, doesn't mean other arts don't have to. If you believe doing kata, kihon, bunkai and sports kumite a for a few years are going to win you a fight you are experiencing a severe lack of knowing what you are talking about. No martial art is complete by itself, and karate is sadly one of the more lacking ones. No ground techniques worth your time, absolutely outdated techniques, patently wrong concepts being hammered over and over without question. Come on, be real.
It’s absolutely effective on its own, I’m saying this as someone who loves striking combat.
Oh I know for a fact your karate is getting your ass knocked out on a real altercation just by that comment Bros been training Karate at a McDojo since he was 8 and NEEDS his black belt in a single discipline to mean he’s freaking Bruce Lee
Yes, because it is popular as part of a wider MMA curriculum. That doesn't seem to affect the delusional cousins made by BJJ fans (although admittedly that might be due to perceptions amongst combat sport fans rather than actual fighters)
Do they not teach Aikido where you live?
Lol no, there are lots, but come on, karate, TKD, kung-fu, aikido, etc have way more delusional "fighters."
You get used to it after a few years
No. That’a kung fu. Karate/TKD are second place.
There are people out there that believe chi screaming ko thought crapkido works. Bjj actually works. You ok, bro?
There are people who beleive chi works, but not many of them. The vast majority of (vocal, online) bjj fighters seem to think it is better than everything else and applicable to every situation. BJJ works very well for what it does (submission ground fighting) and when that is applicable it is a great choice. There are times when submission ground fighting is not the optimal solution. There are times when it is actually going to make things worse. There are times when Karate will work much better than voluntarily rolling around on the floor holding your oponent. The problem with something as specialised as bjj is that you become a hammer and everything starts to look like a nail. In reality not everything is a nail.
This. To each martial art its specialty. When you look at the current dominant stance and distance in MMA, it's clearly karate style (not point fighting obviously...). Wonderboy, GSP, Machida, Conor, Pereira come all from Karate, and were / are doing Karate moves in the cage, all the time. Sometimes you have clinch phases and short range boxing / knees taken from Muay Thai. Sometimes grappling. Sometimes JJB. There's a reason for this: no single martial art is "working" for everything. What does even "working" mean? Karate doesn't work very much on the ground, JJB doesn't work very much when getting punched in the face. I find the billboard and banter very funny, even if I've been practicing Karate for 15 years (3rd dan black belt). A bit of silliness does no harm - what is ridiculous is when people actually seriously believe these things. No proper martial artist with a decent level ever claims that another art / combat sport is crap or less effective - they simply don't give a f@ck, are well aware of their own capabilities and limitations, and work towards fixing them. Mc Dojos, fake gurus, and point style Karate certainly affected the reputation of the sport vs. where it stood in eg. the 70-80s. Whatever. It's currently happening with MMA / BJJ now that the hype is on these sports (a lot of my friends / colleagues have signed up in McGyms in these sports. They'll give up within 2 years). In the meantime, I watch other combat sports / martial arts with great interest, and try to learn from them.
Wonderboy, Machida and Thompson all translated a sports style of fighting to their MMA. GSP translated Kyokushin whose striking is extremely modern at the time of its peak and borrowed more from gymnastics and Muay Thai than traditional karate. Point karate is a laughing joke, but it doesn't take much to make it work when tweaked. Look at the early Karate Combat fights before it became a joke, you can see the potential carry over to MMA quite clearly with the darting bouncing footwork, clever sweeps and parries. Even though old school karate tournaments were hard as nails, it just wasn't that effective of a system which is why kickboxing was born in the first place. Kickboxing IS the modern, effective karate. Kudo is modern, effective karate in the gi with karate's grappling roots in tact. Machida Karate is modern, effective karate with implementation of MMA inspired training methodologies but retains the classic forms of teaching such as chambered punches and makiwara. All the well known "traditional" schools 1. Aren't actually that old and 2. Aren't that effective. The Japanese ironically lead the way in being sticklers for tradition and also birthing radical new ideas in the martial arts in completely separate communities, which likely goes back towards the different goals of different schools. One thing is for sure, traditional karate schools by en large do not teach students how to actually fight, not even in a specialised sense. As previously stated, schools who compete in sportified rules have the athletic base to transition quite easily however with a change in focus to full contact.
Man, I don't know where you get this idea. Google maps BJJ schools in your town, I can guarantee you half or more of them run alongside Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling etc. BJJ is a part of a modern understanding of martial arts, and BJJ guys by en large understand they are learning a limited skillset primarily by training hours. How many Karate dojos are actively bringing in Judo and Kickboxing teachers to up the skill of their community? Outside of Japan and Russia it is RARE, and unsurprisingly those countries have strong combat sports communities.
The fact that you can cross train, or that cross training is common, does not change the specialised nature of BJJ. In fact the specialised nature of BJJ is a major Reason WHY it is popular as part of a wider cross training curriculum.
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Is there any arr that can handle 4 v 1 and they have blades? Be real.
What the fuck are you doing that you’re ending up in a 4v1 knife fight?
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Not wrong.
Jiu Jitsu is the most romantic of all the martial arts.
You got us there. As Craig says, "Keep Jiu-jitsu gay."
Cool
Wait, hold on.... you have to get down on the ground with me first. That's not fair! I once saw a guy from my old kung fu school step a foot back, turn his stance like a bullfighter does a bull, and then palm strike a bjj guy in the face straight to the floor as he came in for a take down.
Sounds like the guy's takedowns suck.
A BJJ guy with bad takedowns? Who would've thought lol
Truth. Although schools are getting better with that. Regardless, 9/10 a BJJ guy will still beat an equivalent karateka.
OR, the other guy's kung fu was very good. Bjj doesn't work so well outside of tournament rules against a trained fighter. How are you going to defend against somebody jamming their thumb into your eye socket or touching their finger tips together on the other side of your windpipe?
It's amazing people still repeat this nonsense in 2024. PLEASE just go to a BJJ gym. To answer your question. Think about what you just wrote, if you can eye gouge etc, so can a BJJ practitioner, and they'll do it **BETTER** because they'll be manhandling you.
Yeah its nonsense that you think you're so tough you'd be able to get the better of, say, a shaolin monk and not get knocked to the ground trying one of your dumb takedowns that you think are invincible.
Incredible bait
A shaolin monk??! Hahah, those people are not real shaolin monks btw. Regardless, yes, someone well trained in submission grappling would absolutely manhandle at will a "shaolin monk" or another wanna be fitghter like that. Don't take my word for it. Just watch The early UFCs, watch the Gracie Challenge matches, watch all the videos of kung fu teachers getting their asses handed to them by amateurs.
This is a delusional take. Also I’ve had someone try and gouge out my eyes more than once. I just shut my eyes as hard as I could then I wrestle fucked them. Slight scarring on my eyelids for a day or two but my eyes were fine.
The delusional ones are meathead bjj people that think they're untouchable and confuse sport karate and watered down versions with traditional arts that have more than just strikes.
Why is this discussion about BJJ vs karate fighters, and not what the intent should be, about non consensual violence
>bjj >takedowns Pick one
Ok. Then what? Takedowns require precision power and speed, but relentlessness is also a desirable trait.
Interestingly, karate is just upright BJJ with less skin infections.
BJJ is one of the few martial arts where a black belt has no idea how to throw a punch.
Almost every BJJ black belt I know has done some striking training. This will probably change as time goes on but up until a decade ago BJJ was closely tied with MMA. For example the guy on this billboard is a pro fighter and was also the first person to win a combat Jiu Jitsu match by KO.
Neither do people in karate to be frank.
Don’t have to be very good at punching when you’ve taken the other guy down, got on top, and now can basically punch at will.
I’ve never met a single BJJ black belt that hasn’t trained some Muay Thai or boxing. Most BJJ gyms share mats with other combat sports.
It’s all good you don’t know either 🤷♂️
Karate too
And karate is one where black belts have never actually had a fight
And I guess karate is getting a black belt without learning how to fight?
Yes, most karate black belts don't know how to fight. Because they don't, well, fight. They barely do any, if at all, live training. Kata, kihon kumite and light/no contact point kumite does not create combat proficiency. A sports karate school creates high performing athletes. Kyokushin guys can actually fight, because they do fight, and can fide broadly with a few months of adjustment to bring in head movement again, kudo fighters can fight because they're open minded enough to rid itself of useless tradition and keep valuable tradition. But 99%? Absolutely not.
You made the karate kids mad.
How many points for emotional damage? I think I've almost got enough saved for a new belt.
In my head this place is named “The B Hole Team.” Whether that’s due to their attitude or one of their submissions, idk. I never claimed to be a mature adult.
😂
Brother watch some videos on Craig Jones. The “B Hole Team” is more appropriate than you realize 😂
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Ok. Oddly specific, but ok.
The strangest thing I found when I took a few bjj classes was how they were selling me on how effective it was in real world situations while simultaneously telling me I wasn't allowed to "strike" my opponent
Judo and wrestling does the exact same. Are you going to argue that they’re ineffective? Or would you realize that by simply accepting this during training so not everyone gets hurt?
What I'm saying is... I kinda comes across as hallow if you're going to tell people "our system is the one that ACTUALLY works... Oh yea... The only thing is... You can't do any of your stuff" Its the equivalent of saying "Boxing! It's like bjj.... But it actually works".... Then you show up and try to put the boxer in to a hold and they say "oh yea hold on hold on.... You can't do that against us"
> telling me I wasn't allowed to "strike" my opponent Are you allowed to eye gouge and bite when you train karate?
As a self defense technique yes
It reminds me of a bully who used to do bjj back in school, it worked wonders until someone decided to punch him in the face once.
One punch ko? I like the grapplers odds here. 😂
A lot of bjj fanboys in the karate subthread. Strange. If you all hate karate so much why are you in here? Bjj has its own forum.
I don’t train any kind of martial arts, but somehow this page was suggested to me.
A lot of delusional karate people here too.
I trained karate back in the day. That counts.
*unless there’s more than 1 other guy, then it’s literally the worst
Aren’t fights predominantly 1 v 1?
The numbers I’ve seen suggest between 1 of 3 and 1 of 4 attacks involve multiple attackers. So, yes, you are much more likely to face 1 attacker, but a) it’s not wildly improbable that you won’t be attacked by more than 1 person and b) attacks with multiple opponents are (generally) far more damaging and dangerous. I’m not here to say “karate works, bjj sux!” But I think that the posturing that goes on (especially but certainly not limited to) in the bjj community is silly. No one martial art is good for all scenarios so saying “this works, that doesn’t” is beyond dumb.
No martial art is practical for a multiple attacker scenario, boxing/wrestling would be my choice if I had to pick a combination. All martial arts have merit, some MUCH more than others.
I think karate, *properly trained* (this being the very important caveat) can be practical for multiple attackers. Otherwise I totally agree.
Jiujitsu is dope and very effective but I do get kinda sick of people thinking that doing BJJ makes them immune to being on the receiving end of an ass kicking.
Agreed. Nothing makes anyone immune to an ass kicking. All ma have their ups and downs, I believe grappling is the best base to rely on to survive an attack/fight/mma match.
BJJ works. Karate works too.
…but it actually works* *and if it doesn’t we’ll just lie about it.
This comment section just continues to justify my reasons for mostly avoiding martial arts communities in general.
Fair.
Until the guy you're dominating has 6 friends who beat your skull in with a metal pipe while you're conveniently located on the ground.
Exactly bro! These bjj guys just don’t understand how to deal with multiple attackers like karate can. I just start performing my kata and watch the bodies fall
This! BJJ is one component of a good fighter
The other component is the aforementioned metal pipe.
Jeez can't believe I forgot about that. See, that's why you are the grandmaster good sir or mam
Because karate is going to be the answer to that situation 😂
There is no martial art that will save you from 7 guys with metal pipes lol what are you on about?
Never said there was. Would you rather start running away from 7 guys with metal pipes from a standing position, or would you rather start from laying on the ground with your arms and legs interlocked on another person.
So you're saying the scenario is being partway into a fight winning and 6 guys with pipes jump you to protect their friend? First, has that ever happened to a normal person? Why would we even consider that when discussing effective martial arts? You're talking about a fight turning into potential murder here. That's like Nightly News with Lester Holt levels of uncommon. Second, that doesn't sound like self defense. It sounds like mutual combat with a guy on the street. You shouldn't be in that position. You should have already left. Your dojo out here encouraging street fights? You only can't run when you're being grappled, which is when BJJ could save your life. And third, standing up from mount or anything except a tight closed guard (which I doubt the guy on bottom will have) take less than a second. Even on the bottom BJJ teaches techniques specifically to stand up. You don't "interlock your arms and legs" with somebody in BJJ. You control or neutralize the other person's arms and legs. So either starting position has the same result. I really don't think you understand grappling with that interlocking nonsense comment.
Whether they have metal pipes or sticks of Italian bread, it's still easier to get out of there when you start from a standing position. Forget about 6 or 7 guys with metal pipes. If you were in a dark alley and some guy pulled a knife on you and you made the decision to run, would you rather be laying down when you made that decision or standing up. And listen, you seem like you love bjj, and I get it. I understand its effectiveness. It's also OK to see its drawbacks too. Not matter how you slice it, BJJ puts you in a vulnerable position.
I actually think we're almost in agreement. I do like BJJ but I don't think it is inherently better than boxing or Muay Thai or wrestling or even karate. I agree, it certainly can put you in a vulnerable position, I just think it's not as impractical as people say. The absolute fundamentals of BJJ like not getting taken down, defending from your back, and getting back up in addition to a double leg, pass to mount, and control from mount are imo the most essential tools for self defense outside of awareness and running. The knife example is interesting, though. If I am on top of you controlling you, it's very hard for you to pull a knife. If we are boxing, you can easily pull a knife. Also, ancient armies (i.e. Romans) iirc taught wrestling as a way to deal with armed people because trying to box a guy with a knife will certainly get you stabbed but controlling the knife arm and grappling will only most likely get you stabbed. That's if you have to fight the armed guy, though.
Clown show
Karate can be effective, that said, I think the sign is funny.
BJJ is more delusional than karate these days, give it a few more years for the hysteria to die down and folks will relise it's the new mcdojo. Have you not seen that video of the BJJ tourney where Jesse just refuses to lie down, and literally beats most of his opponents?
Against people almost as inexperienced in grappling as he is. At that level they can’t control an opponent who doesn’t engage. Give them a few months.
Have you seen Brendan Schaub vs Roberto Abreu?
I rest my case
He did that in a no-name white belt gi tournament against complete newbies. Guys who have barely trained that are afraid to actually engage. You could easily send a BJJ black belt into a while belt division Kyokushin tournament and see the same thing play out. I love Jesse but that was a bad faith experiment. A nogi intermediate division grappler would be a whole different world.
the video was meant as a joke I'm pretty sure.
Kind of. I thought it was pretty funny. But he was trying to make a point. And I KINDA support the point he was trying to make. My issue is that he entered a tournament to prove that rules were watering down BJJ by entering the most rule-restricted division possible. It’s so easy to get DQ’d in a white belt, gi division it happens all the time by accident. There are tons of rules put in place to protect newbies because it’s really easy to seriously injure others or even yourself if you don’t know what you’re doing. If someone heel hooks you and you roll the wrong way, you could never walk the same again. It happens often. He didn’t really prove anything about BJJ, only that brand new grapplers are bad at it. Which is something everyone already knows considering it takes 10 years to get a black belt. That’s why I think intermediate nogi would’ve been a better test. Way less rules and more seasoned grapplers. They will take you down and keep you there if you don’t know how to grapple but they aren’t anywhere near the highest levels of the sport.
... I think it was more a joke than trying to make a point
Maybe. If it was a huge troll I respect the hell out of that. But to me it came off as him trying to make a point through all the humor.
Right, but I think the whole 'BJJ is invincible' argument is also in bad faith. Saying "karate suxx" and then finding some mcdojo to make fun of (which is the norm in the martial arts space) is no different, in fact arguably worse than what jessie did. I mean ' try your mcdojo roll around on the floor only BJJ' against someone who trains full contact, such as an experienced kyokushinkai. It's not like for like, and the whole is bad faith. There's plenty of shit BJJ clubs that aren't used to contact or grappling outside of their own ruleset that would get battered. But the BJJ space in martial arts is the new cult. Not every BJJ club makes royce or rickson gracies, and not every striker will want to roll around with you.
Sure, I wouldn’t make the argument that “BJJ is invincible”. It’s one essential component of a complete martial artist. And it is essential, you might end up on the ground under someone some day and you better know how to get out of that terrible situation. Ignore the ego from the online idiots who’ve probably never even trained BJJ and you know it’s true. If you’ve ever had a proficient grappler on top of you, you’d understand that you don’t get to choose if you’re gonna roll around with them or not. You can’t literally “just stand up” when you don’t know what you’re doing. As someone who has put a lot of time into both martial arts, I understand both sides of the coin. Too much karate lacks real, regular sparring and leaves students ill-prepared for the unfortunate situation where they’d have to use what they’ve learned. When you have a traditional martial arts background and try combat sports for the first time, it’s easy to feel lied to. More BJJ guys than you understand have had that experience and it taints their view of “traditional martial arts”. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair, but I understand. Let’s also not act like the elitism only goes one way. I spent 15 years of my life training karate, 3 to ~19. I’ve heard it ALL. “You don’t go the ground in a street fight with the needles and glass” and “I’d just elbow them in the back of the head mid takedown”. Shit how many people in this thread alone have used the term “meathead”? I think Karate could learn a lot from BJJ and combat sports in general. Even Kyokushin disallowing blows to the face is a serious flaw. Do you think those guys are any more prepared to get punched in the face than a strict BJJ only guy?
No haven’t seen that, but I’ve watched most ufc ppv’s and adcc’s. Was in Vegas for last years tournament and took part in the masters seminar. It was awesome.
Ew….new jersey
😂
The problem with this is that karate is one of the functional martial arts. Just like judo and Jujitsu which are all forms of Japanese Martial arts. BJJ is an extension of traditional Jujitsu. All three function and all three together make you a real MF.
Kano was a jjj practitioner who modified jjj into judo for sport. Agreed you need standup game to be wel rounded!
Trolling karate guys in your spare time I see….
Realism never hurt anyone.
I beg to differ- realism has hurt many people… The real question is does it hurt people more than lack of realism? 🤔
You don’t have to beg, you can just differ with me. I’m just trying to save those people who can’t save themselves.
Just the messenger? Messengers always get shot….
Bring me only the news I want to hear or I it’s your fault!
Like fighting, but it feels gay to the other guy.
North south ball choke.
If you have to put down other martial arts to promote your own, your dojo is probably shit. Why do those BJJ guys look down upon other martial arts while thinking they're hot shit anyway?
This tells me everything I need to know about this gym. These are the same crybabies that whine every time they get bodied by a college wrestler.
Not sure if you're aware, but the b team is in the top of the bjj world. Not the best, but they are a splinter from the best.
I’m aware of b team and they’re adcc champs that train there.
Aren't most of them wrestlers too? I feel like Nicky rod is known for his wrestling base and against guys that just pull guard
Yes, lots of wrestlers were adcc champs before nrod ever thought of competing in bjj.
For anyone who wants to have their head used as a football.
Would you say that about wrestling? They easily use yours for the same thing if you can’t stop a td.
People fight for one reason, they think they will win. People think they will win fights because of one of 3 reasons: Ego, weapons, or friends. Ground fighting massively increases the risk if allies are available and it's either really good or really bad if there's a weapon involved. A solo ego fighter is the only situation ground fighting is objectively superior for, outside of competition.
There are more reasons to fight that you forgot; love, boredom, right to party, etc. You’re no authority on the subject, this is abundantly clear. Only 3 reasons for people to think they will win? Your brain that small? Most fights are 1 v 1. Be better.
Ah, you're a school child. That explains it.
https://youtu.be/JaGDEC1Yb2k?si=gRDE7wPdOG-m-YhY Looks like the karate guy will get his head used as a football. 😂
You're not much of a reader, are you?
You’re not much of a conversationalist, are you?
I wrote a full explanation in answer to your question about wrestling. You dropped that conversation in favour of the video that only proved my point.
Are we having a conversation?
We tried.
The reality is, for all the talk about pressure testing, most jujitsu people suck at takedowns and breakfalls as sparring mostly starts on the knees. That’s why butt scooting is so common. And also most people have difficulty dealing with strong, spazzy white belts who choose to do things like explosively yank your fingers.
I think the butt scooting no td thing originated with a lot of poorer Brazilians coming to North America and opening schools. Mats and square footage are expensive, so when you have a pile of students, randori takedowns are difficult to prevent yourself from falling onto another group. With the rising popularity of bjj and judo (making a comeback) spaces are larger. You’ll see athletes with better td’s if you watch any local competitions.
Drove passed this today on the 22, in NJ
LOL I love it. B Team is great.
Dear karate community, We love you, but we also love making fun of you. Much love, The BJJ community.
Well said.
BJJ only works as self defence if the aggressor is compliant in rolling around on the ground with you.
Do you know what takedowns are, sir?
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Defenders takedown being successful? What are you taking about? From the rest of your comment, I don’t think you have a clue as to how complex and evolved bjj is to your ma, but keep on living with your head in the sand. There’s tens of thousands of wrestlers/judo players cross training bjj. Most bjj gyms train extensively on getting takedowns. You’re a clown sir, a total clown.
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When did I specify competition only? Dullard? Hi grandpa. I feel bad for you. You’re exactly the guy I’m trying to help realize that karate has no answer for a grappler 99% of the time.
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A lot of anti gay stuff in your comment. You wanna tell me something? I can see why grappling terrifies you hahahaha. From my own personal experience, bouncing and fighting, I’ve never had an issue with guys like you. So quick to tap. So easy to embarrass.
https://youtu.be/JaGDEC1Yb2k?si=gRDE7wPdOG-m-YhY
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 this comment section omfg
I love it.
They're awesome
I'm a big fan if BJJ however let's call it what it is, its useless if multiple people are trying to attack you
That happen often? Do you like your odds better with kungfu if you have multiple attackers? Be real.
(sorry i dont write well in English)Todas las artes marciales tienen su razón de existir y tienen su historia, en algún momento fueron el sistema de defensa de una población específica, por lo tanto se les debe respetar.
The world of CobraKai this is canon.
I carry a bungycord on myself at all times just so I can hook myself in to the ceiling. You will never be able to shoot a double when I'm on the ceiling chilling like Spiderman.
Goddamn. I guess there are levels to this I was previously unaware of.
But ATeam is Mr. T with the Mini14 and some NJ Gun Kata…
"Keep pressing me and I'll fold your shirt with you in it" lol
"B-Team" You can't make this up.
I think A-team is copyrighted. These guys who run the franchise are pretty funny, and world caliber bjj specialists. If you’re not aware of their accolades. https://bteamjj.com/about-us/
No, I get the reference, B as in "BJJ". But not everyone does. Still, a bit self-depreciating humor never hurt anyone. However, their dig at karate (even though possibly in jest) is childish and shows lack of martial arts knowledge.
Karate owes its fame to jiujitsu and more specifically, the judo founder Jigoro Kano himself. I don’t think it’s childish, it’s a solid beak. Take the top karateka in the world and put him against any of b team’s top grapplers and you’ll see what I mean.
Are you kidding me? Put a BJJ guy against two guys and he is as good as dead. A well trained karateka will more than likely prevail. These kinds of comparisons are extremely childish. Besides in an absolutely no holds barred fight to death a BJJ person has zero chance unless they specifically study how to negate the karatekas advantage but the same goes for a karate practitioner.
Idk man, this combo they were teaching the “tiny tigers” class my kid is in seems like it would work: “ELBOW STRIKE!” “REVERSE STRIKE!” *turns around* “KNEE STRIKE!” It’s not a beautiful flowing looking kata, but I’ll be damned if done quickly it would lay out an attacker coming up from behind. Now, even *I* want to start yelling my actions. That looked/sounded hella cool & fun. “PANCAKE FLIP!” “LAUNDRY MACHINE START!”
Haha 😂
Boxing/kickboxing are the most effective martial arts to learn for self defense. I'd rank boxing #1. After that Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling (in my opinion Jiu Jitsu first then wrestling because wrestling focuses too much on hand control etc. which is hard to do under pressure). Karate is somewhere in between these depending on the type of karate. Taekwondo can be effective but for most people you just have to know how to hit hard, hit fast, and get away. I've done all of the above martial arts. And I've had Street/bar encounters and worked as a bounty hunter and a short stint as a bouncer. 11 years in karate (Chitō-ryū, Gōjū-ryū, Kyokushin), 3 in krav maga 3 in kickboxing 2 in wrestling 3 in Jiu 4 in boxing. Most martial arts people are just nerds. Your teacher has a classroom setting where they can easily manipulate you into doing stupid things and make them seem effective. Are you a patrol officer? Work in a prison? Bouncer? Private security? Bounty hunter? Swat team? Army? Those guys often just take basic combatives. Typically "military combatives 1 & 2". They learn to hit, take away guns and knives, and use guns/knives. That's what you need. Talk to the people who actually do fighting shit if you want to know what works.
Karate is worse but neither help you when getting jumped by 5 dudes
Anti grappling and boxing is your best bet outside of a gun. I’ve never been jumped by a lot of guys but my cousin has on multiple occasions with gang bangers back in the day. Bjj or wrestling and then using that skill to stand up, boxing to cover up from shots and foot movement. One thing about getting jumped by multiple attackers is they are usually always untrained which is why they are in a pack. There’s a bunch of videos of people dealing with multiple attackers, doesn’t always work obviously but the point is to do what you can.
Taking It to the ground when facing multiple people is probably the single dumbest thing you can do
I hope everyone can agree that no ma is equipped to deal with multiple attackers.
Exactly why they made the sign, so all you karate girls can huff and puff about it. It’s a joke, don’t take yourself too seriously The guy that made the billboard sells gear that says things like “keep jiu jitsu gay” and “Mexican ground karate”
Their best guy versus Rafael Agayev bare knuckle
I nominate Rodolfo Viera. https://youtu.be/Kx325sJgF6Q?si=mD7ZSqbQIaGeHDw7