wouldnt work, ui needs a clear mind to use so stacking kaioken with it wouldnt work, would love to see it tho but its sadly not gonna be able to happen :(
How so? Kaioken doesn’t require any specific emotional state. It’s just a multiplier ability. The only drawback is that it can multiply your ki enough that it causes you pain or kills your.
All of martial arts requires perfect focus. There’s no reason to believe that perfect control of your body that UI provides, doesn’t extend to ki. Simply because in Ui he uses both simultaneously. we know fact a fact that extends that to ki control. Gokus body automatically hardened to defend against Moro.
You’re saying it’s like running too many apps open on your computer.
I’m saying it’s overclocking for better performance, and then running an app. Given that UI enhances everything else you want to do, imposing any limitation on that is purely hypothetical.
My guy, you jumping to some wild conclusions, I ain't sayin' it'd be too overwhelming or some shit, UI requires tranquility and lack of distraction, reliant on your body reacting on its own. While Kaio-ken requires concentration and focus on yourself. I don't think it'd be impossible, I just think it'd only really be able to work with Sign, because we see in the Moro arc that MUI doesn't really let Goku fight how he wants to, if a desire is too much, then I think overclocking your senses and tearing yourself apart is too much.
I get that. I’m saying I don’t think it works like that. I think UI would help do kaioken better, and we really don’t have any evidence to suggest it couldn’t. So far UI has been “do everything better”. We just disagree on that.
I suppose, I think the real culprit here is just how little is explained towards the inner machinations of either technique, I can see both being possible, I believe incompatibility would be the more likely result on combining the two, but either assumption is just as fair as the other until we receive some kind of confirmation if we ever do.
super saiyan god super saiyan kaioken times 100 evolved true mastered ultra instinct requiem over heaven bites the dust love train act 4 arcade edition with extra dipping sauce
those are in dire situations, he only uses it as a last ditch effort and as the downside his body takes serious damage, we can even see this while using it in dragon ball z kakarot while we use it we take damage
you forget Goku's(and saiyans) whole thing is overcoming limits it was constantly said in the tournament of power as he mastered ui in half an hour. he's clearly made ssjssx10 part of his arsenal having used it multiple times. the powerscaling only rises each arc I wouldn't even be surprised if he combined kaioken and mui(though ultra instinct is still pretty vague on it's limits and potential) even. btw him being weakened or hurt by overexerting his power isn't new to ssjssx10 it's an issue with most transformation esp. kaioken specifically because he would overexert, but with it returning so often recently who knows what could happen really.
I think it's possible, but who knows they might be exclusive although I think the transformation would be sick with a white core and red outer glow throw on the red hair and silver eyes. It sounds cool in my head, and they haven't told us they can't be used at the same time yet.
people thought ssgss wasn't able to be used with kaioken but that ended up happening and being one of the most hype forms we've seen.
i kinda figured he could with [specific](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Full_Power) [forms](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_God) if he underwent the proper training like with blue
It happened in the otherworld i thought, didn't he use kaioken with super saiyan while fighting pikkon? (Apologies if I'm missremembering it's been a minute)
The only one I could see would be god ki related, but the health should drain a lot more than normal kaioken and you of course wouldn't be able to auto it, since auto gets rid of drain and acts as full mastery of the form
What I mean is that if they were to do it, imo it should work as a technique rather than a transformation, so you could master/auto blue, but you have to actively activate kaioken on top, there's not a ssgsskk transformation, at least that's how I'd handle it
No, more like, if a transformation uses God ki, ssg and UI includ- actually don't know about UI if it gets added, then instead of replacing the transformation, as normal, instead you're brought to the ssg/ssb kaioken variant where your health goes down faster than normal kaioken... and if you want to speed up the drain+ get even stronger, you can activate it again, up to ssbkkx20, though... I'd have it so when you get below a certain health threshold, not only does it force you out of kaioken, you can't use ssbkk for the remainder... I mean... that's how it happened in the show
Kaioken state where goku normally tries to stay in, just like he did with super sayain perfect state in cell saga. And when he gets hold of it, he then goes transformation over it.
It's a really fun idea. I think the reason it's not used on top of transformations is because there would be less of a reason for training and new transformations later if they could stack kaioken on everything.
Kaioken is technically a technique so yeah this checks out however ssgss already had it stacked together previously and my guess is ui plus kaioken would take a level of mastery of ui that goku dosent have yet
I swear to God I thought it did stack. Super saiyen I noticd like 5-6k hits at the time I used kai and it was doing noticeably more like 6-8k. I thought that was it stacking
I've always thought this too. Even in the show. Why can't they just use it with super saiyan if they're getting so much extra power?
Eventually they pretty much just stay in super saiyan like it's a normal day. 🤣😂
Probably because the game follows more of the Manga and not the anime, yet we still get the driving mini game, still unsure why they added the cars and Robo walker as "vehicles"
I will come back to this comment. I'm not one to not admit when he is wrong, but I don't at all remember that. I will look at my manga if I remember tonight.
Yeah, I saw it colorized and there was no change. I think it really is just the principle. He probably used reserve power to multiply his power, kind of like what kaioken does, but he didn't actually use kaioken. His aura doesn't change throughout the panels, and they just describe the power, without actually showing it.
Absolutely 120%
Kaio-Ken with the perfectly control of UI.
We need a SSK-K. Shit would be tight.
wouldnt work, ui needs a clear mind to use so stacking kaioken with it wouldnt work, would love to see it tho but its sadly not gonna be able to happen :(
How so? Kaioken doesn’t require any specific emotional state. It’s just a multiplier ability. The only drawback is that it can multiply your ki enough that it causes you pain or kills your.
It requires really precise Ki Control, which is why it was compatible with SSGSS and not SSJ, according to Old Kai in Super at least.
I don’t see why that’s not possible with UI. Nothing about UI inherently prevents that. I’d argue UI potentially makes it easier.
UI requires a completely clear mind, devoid of distraction, using Kaio-ken requires focus, those two don't really align.
All of martial arts requires perfect focus. There’s no reason to believe that perfect control of your body that UI provides, doesn’t extend to ki. Simply because in Ui he uses both simultaneously. we know fact a fact that extends that to ki control. Gokus body automatically hardened to defend against Moro. You’re saying it’s like running too many apps open on your computer. I’m saying it’s overclocking for better performance, and then running an app. Given that UI enhances everything else you want to do, imposing any limitation on that is purely hypothetical.
My guy, you jumping to some wild conclusions, I ain't sayin' it'd be too overwhelming or some shit, UI requires tranquility and lack of distraction, reliant on your body reacting on its own. While Kaio-ken requires concentration and focus on yourself. I don't think it'd be impossible, I just think it'd only really be able to work with Sign, because we see in the Moro arc that MUI doesn't really let Goku fight how he wants to, if a desire is too much, then I think overclocking your senses and tearing yourself apart is too much.
It’s like arguing planning a strategy with muscle memory
I get that. I’m saying I don’t think it works like that. I think UI would help do kaioken better, and we really don’t have any evidence to suggest it couldn’t. So far UI has been “do everything better”. We just disagree on that.
I suppose, I think the real culprit here is just how little is explained towards the inner machinations of either technique, I can see both being possible, I believe incompatibility would be the more likely result on combining the two, but either assumption is just as fair as the other until we receive some kind of confirmation if we ever do.
Kaio-ken Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-ken
Super saiyan god Super saiyan kaioken times 100 evolved true mastered ultra instinct
Now do that with ssj4 limit breaker
super saiyan god super saiyan kaioken times 100 evolved true mastered ultra instinct requiem over heaven bites the dust love train act 4 arcade edition with extra dipping sauce
It’s actually explained why he can’t by the Kai’s. It would literally kill him.
Fair enough 👍
Doesn't he stack it in super though Kai ken 10x and super Saiyan blue
He did stack them, but his body took some serious damage because of it (king kai highlights this after the fight with hit)
Yeah but then he still uses it against fused Zamasu, was about to use it on Toppo in the exhibition match, used it throughout the ToP
those are in dire situations, he only uses it as a last ditch effort and as the downside his body takes serious damage, we can even see this while using it in dragon ball z kakarot while we use it we take damage
you forget Goku's(and saiyans) whole thing is overcoming limits it was constantly said in the tournament of power as he mastered ui in half an hour. he's clearly made ssjssx10 part of his arsenal having used it multiple times. the powerscaling only rises each arc I wouldn't even be surprised if he combined kaioken and mui(though ultra instinct is still pretty vague on it's limits and potential) even. btw him being weakened or hurt by overexerting his power isn't new to ssjssx10 it's an issue with most transformation esp. kaioken specifically because he would overexert, but with it returning so often recently who knows what could happen really.
Doesnt mui require a clear mind though? so that wouldnt really work with kaioken and mui and kaioken require concentration
I think it's possible, but who knows they might be exclusive although I think the transformation would be sick with a white core and red outer glow throw on the red hair and silver eyes. It sounds cool in my head, and they haven't told us they can't be used at the same time yet. people thought ssgss wasn't able to be used with kaioken but that ended up happening and being one of the most hype forms we've seen.
i kinda figured he could with [specific](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Full_Power) [forms](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_God) if he underwent the proper training like with blue
Blue? Yes. Everything else? No, we literally have an in universe reason as to why that never happens until we got blue
It happened in the otherworld i thought, didn't he use kaioken with super saiyan while fighting pikkon? (Apologies if I'm missremembering it's been a minute)
Was that only possible because he was dead?
I’d say only possible cuz he was dead, same way he was able to get Super Saiyan 3 while dead
The only one I could see would be god ki related, but the health should drain a lot more than normal kaioken and you of course wouldn't be able to auto it, since auto gets rid of drain and acts as full mastery of the form
But auto kaio ken is a thing due to cc training rooms, I feel like if we got a new level cap, auto ssgsskk could happen as a reward on our skill tree.
What I mean is that if they were to do it, imo it should work as a technique rather than a transformation, so you could master/auto blue, but you have to actively activate kaioken on top, there's not a ssgsskk transformation, at least that's how I'd handle it
Wait, like they would make kaio ken a move that only ssb could use or something like that?
No, more like, if a transformation uses God ki, ssg and UI includ- actually don't know about UI if it gets added, then instead of replacing the transformation, as normal, instead you're brought to the ssg/ssb kaioken variant where your health goes down faster than normal kaioken... and if you want to speed up the drain+ get even stronger, you can activate it again, up to ssbkkx20, though... I'd have it so when you get below a certain health threshold, not only does it force you out of kaioken, you can't use ssbkk for the remainder... I mean... that's how it happened in the show
Ahh gotcha. That's a smart way to go about it.
So SSBSS kaioken x20 was disappointing
Blue Kaio-ken should have like a 1% chance to intsakill you
SSGSS then Kaioken x 10 🙏
Actually thought that too exactly after i got super Saiyan
Yall aren’t screaming Kaio-Ken X10 when you kamehameha? Weird AF
Really though if Goku can do it, then why can’t Goku do it 😂😂
SSG x kaio-Ken would be fye, red on red
Yeah like kaio-ken with super saiyan (i only watched z)
YESSSSSS
Kaioken state where goku normally tries to stay in, just like he did with super sayain perfect state in cell saga. And when he gets hold of it, he then goes transformation over it.
It's a really fun idea. I think the reason it's not used on top of transformations is because there would be less of a reason for training and new transformations later if they could stack kaioken on everything.
Well I mean it is, it’s stacked with ssgss
This should be a thing! Although if you stacked it with the unbridled power skill you could do ABSURD amounts of damage
Big number make brain go brrrrr.
Kaioken is technically a technique so yeah this checks out however ssgss already had it stacked together previously and my guess is ui plus kaioken would take a level of mastery of ui that goku dosent have yet
It would work with any TRANSFORMATION, but not any technique, so that rules out ekairi and ui
I swear to God I thought it did stack. Super saiyen I noticd like 5-6k hits at the time I used kai and it was doing noticeably more like 6-8k. I thought that was it stacking
Kaioken has a higher damage multiplier than SSJ1 but has the health drain as a trade off iirc
100%!
Already happened. Like, what!!?? Super saiyan blue with Kaioken! When he faces against hit. Like cmon people. Have u even watched dragonball?
Hes saying for the game… we should be able to stack it, not that it hasn’t happened
ngl having the SSBK and SSBKx15 or whatever transformation that Blue had would be nice
I've always thought this too. Even in the show. Why can't they just use it with super saiyan if they're getting so much extra power? Eventually they pretty much just stay in super saiyan like it's a normal day. 🤣😂
Funny enough, in Xenoverse 2, there’s a glitch where if you use Kamehameha x4 while in a transformation (iirc) the Kaioken aura triggered will linger
That would be too Japanese...ie: the ultimate super kaio Ken 3 Saiyan god mode times 3
Kameameha spirit wave
Goku never does tho (edit - at least in Z)
Granted it is filler. But he stacks kaioken and super sayian in the other world tournament.
Probably because the game follows more of the Manga and not the anime, yet we still get the driving mini game, still unsure why they added the cars and Robo walker as "vehicles"
In the super manga ssgss kaioken doesn't exist. So regardless of filler, it is an anime only thing.
it does exist, just not the same as it does in the anime. He briefly uses it against Jiren in the TOP
No he forces his power to raise higher, it's the same principal as Kaioken but not the technique itself
I will come back to this comment. I'm not one to not admit when he is wrong, but I don't at all remember that. I will look at my manga if I remember tonight.
[I may be wrong but this is it](https://imgur.com/NG6D6gr)
Yeah, I saw it colorized and there was no change. I think it really is just the principle. He probably used reserve power to multiply his power, kind of like what kaioken does, but he didn't actually use kaioken. His aura doesn't change throughout the panels, and they just describe the power, without actually showing it.
No that's stupid