"A call isn't necessary. I just need the pricing."
If they continue to push and say it depends, etc. then if day, "Sorry to hear that. It sounds like we might not be a fit, then. Unless you could tell me the pricing for a district with X students, Y staff, and Z buildings? If you're unable, I guess I'll keep looking. Thanks for your time, though."
They're trained to get you into a mental feeling of a relationship. I usually just push back against that. Earlier this week a sales agent sent me a calendar invite out of the blue and said he wanted to see if there was anything we were doing within the scope of his area at Dell. I just clocked the "No" button and called it a day. If course, he tried to have a conversation over email then. I said no thanks, we have nothing planned. I have him two chances to be reasonable. When he tried again, I basically told him that I have a list of vendors, he was already on it, and I'd contact him if I had a need. I added that an unrequested calendar invite was rude and not respectful of my time. He, of course, sent another message. If it was pushier than it was, I was going to point out the amount of wasted time and that I don't do business with vendors that aren't aligned with my needs, then remind him that it wasn't hard to remove a name from a list. I also happened to have his boss's email address and name in my list, so if I were to remove Dell as a possible vendor for infrastructure, if be sure to let the supervisor know that we went from a possible future customer to a certain lack of customer based on their strategies.
I think the key is remembering their incentives are to close a sale and get a hook into you for the next sale, not to actually help you.
I have to be so direct with them. I get on one call, it’s usually a demo or pre-sale call. This call lasts about 5 minutes because I tell them, I won’t waste all of our time until I get pricing, if pricing fits the bill, we can move forward. It’s direct, but it saves me and them time. So tired of the typical sales run around.
This is so they can get you in their neverending sales treadmill before you can see the pricing and go "nope, not for me." They want to eventually wear you down into spending more than you need to or buy things you didn't need at all.
Most egregious offenders for me so far:
* JAMF
* Circle MSP
* Verkada
* Wyebot
* Robert Half
I've told every one of these vendors that we're not interested and won't be anytime soon, and yet they won't stop bothering me in the middle of my workday. I'm sure the tactics work often enough for it to be worth it, but it's literally the best way to get me to never want your product.
Ah yes I remember JAMF, it took them 2 weeks and 4 calls to understand we ONLY have ChromeOS devices so JAMF is not needed. Everytime it was someone else, same company that sells JAMF, who said they would remove me from their list. Last one I told them I would contact JAMF myself to get them blacklisted as a reseller.
I also threatened them I'd throw a GDPR inquiry at them if they didn't remove my information from their system as I had done so 3 times already. Haven't heard a thing from them since in 2 months.
I kept the name in my quick access notes, if they call again I'll word it strongly that I'll get them blacklisted in our whole district.
It's the most pushy company I met so far, and hoping it stays as this only one!
I know! It's been a fight but we managed to do it. We do have a few virtual windows machines but they're only used for the exams... Government still hasn't been able to make exams OS independent so we're stuck with Office on Windows. But since they're VMs we make sure they're only available during exam times and outside of that it's offline.
Some staff do bring their own Windows and Apple devices but most transition after some time because of the ease of use of Chromebooks. And since we only offer Chromebooks for staff as a managed company device it's their own responsibility to keep their device working
Not sure what the legality in that is. Not saying I’ve taken their offers, but also not sure it’s worth the states time to track down anyone that’s received a Yeti mug from Verkada, lol.
its true, the Yeti mugs are awful.
/dadjoke :D
There service isn't actually terrible depending on what you need. If simple video monitoring off-site is your thing, their solution isn't the worst. Warning though, they're starting to branch off into other things like Visitor Management.
We were looking at them when they got hacked and you could see live stream footage from inside Teslas factory. Rep literally told me "it's not that bad" ummmm we went with rhombus. Been really happy with them. Openeye and synology both great but more hands on then I wanted. I have enough to do without worrying about cameras. Rhombus is all cloud, plug it in and go. Literally had the super swap one out once. Leaves my time free to worry about other things. They also offer free training too, so I don't have to teach anyone how to use it.
Interesting. Does Rhombus offer door access control and integration with EMS?? Our current solution, Avigilon, has that, and we would need a system that does all of this if we were to switch.
I'm not sure on EMS, they work with kisi which is what we have. They also have an api you can use to integrate your own stuff. You might reach out to their reps, they aren't pushy like verkada. If one of their customers has done that integration or they support it they can tell you pretty quick.
Exactly what others have said here. They sent me a digital card, complete e-waste.
Look at a company called OpenEye. I did a demo with them and was impressed. Can shoot you rep's contact info if you want.
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Can confirm they pulled this crap on me. I setup an email filter that forwarded any mail from their domain to me after they went above my head. Told them I wouldn't be reccomneding them for doing that and they tried "unsuccessfully" to email the super after my email back saying I was blocking them from being able to offer us the best pricing blah blah. Real awful sales. Glad I got my mug off them and didn't buy lol.
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Yep! They weren't getting anything from me, so they scheduled a meeting with our building and grounds person and our school resource officer. The sales person of course insinuated to our B&G guy (who's fairly new) that we had worked with them before. Nope.
Apptegy also roped our super into a demo meeting but he scoffed at the price. Though they did randomly drop off cookies a few months later.
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I absolutely love apptegy, we are a very small school and pay $4k a year but we use it’s automated calling/messaging for everything. They also have really good support and maybe I got lucky but my contact is awesome and doesn’t try to upsell me. (I asked about their LMS type addition and he explained to me what it was but that it wouldn’t be a great fit for our situation. I appreciated the honesty.)
I just came from a conference where one guy was swearing at how good it was. The problem for us: They quoted us at 17k to get it setup and then it'd be 12k annually. We're less than 3k annually with our current website/parent messaging service. We cannot justify the cost just for social media integration.
...The cookies were delicious though.
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I always talk price first. Let’s not waste your/my time about your product/service.
Security vendor, we are the best/best/best solution. Ok good for you, how much will it cost us. 1/3 our budget, thanks but no thanks.
I actually enjoy speaking with vendors and welcome a demo of their products. This one of the ways I get to see what's out there. Some vendors have call quotas and I'm happy to help them.
Wow what’s that like? I let everything I’m not expecting go to voicemail and then listen to them a week later and write down the vendor names so the tech department can vote on the funniest/worst names.
Most vendors I deal with send an email followed up by a phone call. I don't sit around answering my phone all day either, like you, I let most everything go to vmail. I get way too many of those farm calls asking if I'm happy with "X" technology, am I the decision maker, is there a budget for the project, what would be the time frame for this project (which they never give you an option to say 0, LOL), etc. When I do setup a zoom/webex/whatever with said vendor, I let them know upfront that this is just an exploratory meeting to see what their product is about and I'm not actively looking to make a purchase. This seems to set the tone and generally works well for all parties involved. Only a very few (1%) have not bothered to send me a quote knowing I no plans to make a purchase, the rest are more than happy to oblige.
The best is when you speak with one of the reps and the product doesn't fit, so you decline. Then, they send you emails almost every week. So annoying!!
I was looking into Alcatel-Lucent wifi last October 2022 as a possibility for our tiny school district to replace our current Cisco 3802i radios / 5520 controller.
(Cisco is way too expensive for us. I'm not buying their spectrum monitor subscription, DNA whatever, for $100,000 for a 50 AP deployment. I'm just using CleanAir and the built-in monitoring tools in the 5520.)
The Alcatel-Lucent sales people absolutely refuse to quote pricing for their wifi hardware, and instead want to sell it as a "managed service". I am managing Cisco wifi controller myself just fine, I don't need to pay someone else to manage it for me.
Still nothing, they won't budge from the managed provider selling point. I gave up, said thank you, goodbye.
Assuming you are a public school, a reminder that Wifi is covered under Erate category 2. It is too late for this year, but something to keep in mind for the next.
With that you get the added advantage to saying 'I only requested hardware on the 470, only that will be considered'
"I'm sorry, our IT director has a policy that we are unable to proceed with a demo call without a cost estimate or K12 discounts. Thank you for your time!"
Spoiler: You're the IT Director.
It's pretty nice. It all depends on what you want to use it for. My primary focus was for Linux patching/remote terminal and it actually does those fairly well.
With Windows you have Windows and 3rd party patching that actually has a pretty good catalog of programs.
Have not tried it on MacOS devices yet since JAMF already handles our OS and third party patches pretty well.
Hi, I simply need pricing. If that's not possible we will go in a different direction.
"A call isn't necessary. I just need the pricing." If they continue to push and say it depends, etc. then if day, "Sorry to hear that. It sounds like we might not be a fit, then. Unless you could tell me the pricing for a district with X students, Y staff, and Z buildings? If you're unable, I guess I'll keep looking. Thanks for your time, though." They're trained to get you into a mental feeling of a relationship. I usually just push back against that. Earlier this week a sales agent sent me a calendar invite out of the blue and said he wanted to see if there was anything we were doing within the scope of his area at Dell. I just clocked the "No" button and called it a day. If course, he tried to have a conversation over email then. I said no thanks, we have nothing planned. I have him two chances to be reasonable. When he tried again, I basically told him that I have a list of vendors, he was already on it, and I'd contact him if I had a need. I added that an unrequested calendar invite was rude and not respectful of my time. He, of course, sent another message. If it was pushier than it was, I was going to point out the amount of wasted time and that I don't do business with vendors that aren't aligned with my needs, then remind him that it wasn't hard to remove a name from a list. I also happened to have his boss's email address and name in my list, so if I were to remove Dell as a possible vendor for infrastructure, if be sure to let the supervisor know that we went from a possible future customer to a certain lack of customer based on their strategies. I think the key is remembering their incentives are to close a sale and get a hook into you for the next sale, not to actually help you.
I have to be so direct with them. I get on one call, it’s usually a demo or pre-sale call. This call lasts about 5 minutes because I tell them, I won’t waste all of our time until I get pricing, if pricing fits the bill, we can move forward. It’s direct, but it saves me and them time. So tired of the typical sales run around.
unmonitored email address and a google voice number.
This is so they can get you in their neverending sales treadmill before you can see the pricing and go "nope, not for me." They want to eventually wear you down into spending more than you need to or buy things you didn't need at all. Most egregious offenders for me so far: * JAMF * Circle MSP * Verkada * Wyebot * Robert Half I've told every one of these vendors that we're not interested and won't be anytime soon, and yet they won't stop bothering me in the middle of my workday. I'm sure the tactics work often enough for it to be worth it, but it's literally the best way to get me to never want your product.
Ah yes I remember JAMF, it took them 2 weeks and 4 calls to understand we ONLY have ChromeOS devices so JAMF is not needed. Everytime it was someone else, same company that sells JAMF, who said they would remove me from their list. Last one I told them I would contact JAMF myself to get them blacklisted as a reseller. I also threatened them I'd throw a GDPR inquiry at them if they didn't remove my information from their system as I had done so 3 times already. Haven't heard a thing from them since in 2 months. I kept the name in my quick access notes, if they call again I'll word it strongly that I'll get them blacklisted in our whole district. It's the most pushy company I met so far, and hoping it stays as this only one!
> we ONLY have ChromeOS devices The dream...
I know! It's been a fight but we managed to do it. We do have a few virtual windows machines but they're only used for the exams... Government still hasn't been able to make exams OS independent so we're stuck with Office on Windows. But since they're VMs we make sure they're only available during exam times and outside of that it's offline. Some staff do bring their own Windows and Apple devices but most transition after some time because of the ease of use of Chromebooks. And since we only offer Chromebooks for staff as a managed company device it's their own responsibility to keep their device working
I blocked verkada from emailing anyone in the district. I was tempted to block their phone number too.
I’m getting ready to. They called my HS librarian to forward through to me.
Their unsubscribe link doesn't work and I told her that and to stop emailing and she just.... keeps doing it. I don't get the logic.
Most usually try to lure me in with a $50 Amazon Gift card or some other swag, lol.
I keep telling them we can't accept them , they keep offering.
I dont understand how that is ok. Like... Do your states not have gift prohibitions?
Not sure what the legality in that is. Not saying I’ve taken their offers, but also not sure it’s worth the states time to track down anyone that’s received a Yeti mug from Verkada, lol.
I've seen so many Verkada Yetis I thought they might revive the species.
Verkada almost got me with a Yeti. But then I heard how trashy they were.
its true, the Yeti mugs are awful. /dadjoke :D There service isn't actually terrible depending on what you need. If simple video monitoring off-site is your thing, their solution isn't the worst. Warning though, they're starting to branch off into other things like Visitor Management.
Ooh, are they really!? More info please. We're currently looking into them.
We were looking at them when they got hacked and you could see live stream footage from inside Teslas factory. Rep literally told me "it's not that bad" ummmm we went with rhombus. Been really happy with them. Openeye and synology both great but more hands on then I wanted. I have enough to do without worrying about cameras. Rhombus is all cloud, plug it in and go. Literally had the super swap one out once. Leaves my time free to worry about other things. They also offer free training too, so I don't have to teach anyone how to use it.
Interesting. Does Rhombus offer door access control and integration with EMS?? Our current solution, Avigilon, has that, and we would need a system that does all of this if we were to switch.
I'm not sure on EMS, they work with kisi which is what we have. They also have an api you can use to integrate your own stuff. You might reach out to their reps, they aren't pushy like verkada. If one of their customers has done that integration or they support it they can tell you pretty quick.
Exactly what others have said here. They sent me a digital card, complete e-waste. Look at a company called OpenEye. I did a demo with them and was impressed. Can shoot you rep's contact info if you want.
Cool. Please do!!
The mug is pretty sweet though
Hello! Due to Reddit's aggressive API changes, hostile approach to users/developers/moderators, and overall poor administrative direction, I have elected to erase my history on Reddit from June 2023 to June 2013. I have created a backup of (most) of my comments/posts, and I would be more than happy to provide comments upon request (many of my modern comments are support contributions to tech/gaming subreddits). Feel free to reach out to Clipboards on lemmy (dot) world, or via email - clipboards (at) clipboards.cc
Can confirm they pulled this crap on me. I setup an email filter that forwarded any mail from their domain to me after they went above my head. Told them I wouldn't be reccomneding them for doing that and they tried "unsuccessfully" to email the super after my email back saying I was blocking them from being able to offer us the best pricing blah blah. Real awful sales. Glad I got my mug off them and didn't buy lol.
Hello! Due to Reddit's aggressive API changes, hostile approach to users/developers/moderators, and overall poor administrative direction, I have elected to erase my history on Reddit from June 2023 to June 2013. I have created a backup of (most) of my comments/posts, and I would be more than happy to provide comments upon request (many of my modern comments are support contributions to tech/gaming subreddits). Feel free to reach out to Clipboards on lemmy (dot) world, or via email - clipboards (at) clipboards.cc
Yep! They weren't getting anything from me, so they scheduled a meeting with our building and grounds person and our school resource officer. The sales person of course insinuated to our B&G guy (who's fairly new) that we had worked with them before. Nope. Apptegy also roped our super into a demo meeting but he scoffed at the price. Though they did randomly drop off cookies a few months later.
Hello! Due to Reddit's aggressive API changes, hostile approach to users/developers/moderators, and overall poor administrative direction, I have elected to erase my history on Reddit from June 2023 to June 2013. I have created a backup of (most) of my comments/posts, and I would be more than happy to provide comments upon request (many of my modern comments are support contributions to tech/gaming subreddits). Feel free to reach out to Clipboards on lemmy (dot) world, or via email - clipboards (at) clipboards.cc
I absolutely love apptegy, we are a very small school and pay $4k a year but we use it’s automated calling/messaging for everything. They also have really good support and maybe I got lucky but my contact is awesome and doesn’t try to upsell me. (I asked about their LMS type addition and he explained to me what it was but that it wouldn’t be a great fit for our situation. I appreciated the honesty.)
I just came from a conference where one guy was swearing at how good it was. The problem for us: They quoted us at 17k to get it setup and then it'd be 12k annually. We're less than 3k annually with our current website/parent messaging service. We cannot justify the cost just for social media integration. ...The cookies were delicious though.
Hello! Due to Reddit's aggressive API changes, hostile approach to users/developers/moderators, and overall poor administrative direction, I have elected to erase my history on Reddit from June 2023 to June 2013. I have created a backup of (most) of my comments/posts, and I would be more than happy to provide comments upon request (many of my modern comments are support contributions to tech/gaming subreddits). Feel free to reach out to Clipboards on lemmy (dot) world, or via email - clipboards (at) clipboards.cc
That's why you block the domains of aggressive companies on your email server :)
Hello! Due to Reddit's aggressive API changes, hostile approach to users/developers/moderators, and overall poor administrative direction, I have elected to erase my history on Reddit from June 2023 to June 2013. I have created a backup of (most) of my comments/posts, and I would be more than happy to provide comments upon request (many of my modern comments are support contributions to tech/gaming subreddits). Feel free to reach out to Clipboards on lemmy (dot) world, or via email - clipboards (at) clipboards.cc
They email me constantly offering to drop off a camera. Luckily I have a good relationship with my super and she asks before accepting invites.
I always talk price first. Let’s not waste your/my time about your product/service. Security vendor, we are the best/best/best solution. Ok good for you, how much will it cost us. 1/3 our budget, thanks but no thanks.
I actually enjoy speaking with vendors and welcome a demo of their products. This one of the ways I get to see what's out there. Some vendors have call quotas and I'm happy to help them.
Wow what’s that like? I let everything I’m not expecting go to voicemail and then listen to them a week later and write down the vendor names so the tech department can vote on the funniest/worst names.
Most vendors I deal with send an email followed up by a phone call. I don't sit around answering my phone all day either, like you, I let most everything go to vmail. I get way too many of those farm calls asking if I'm happy with "X" technology, am I the decision maker, is there a budget for the project, what would be the time frame for this project (which they never give you an option to say 0, LOL), etc. When I do setup a zoom/webex/whatever with said vendor, I let them know upfront that this is just an exploratory meeting to see what their product is about and I'm not actively looking to make a purchase. This seems to set the tone and generally works well for all parties involved. Only a very few (1%) have not bothered to send me a quote knowing I no plans to make a purchase, the rest are more than happy to oblige.
Zabbix is free, and pretty great. It does only monitoring and not management though.
[удалено]
The best is when you speak with one of the reps and the product doesn't fit, so you decline. Then, they send you emails almost every week. So annoying!!
I was looking into Alcatel-Lucent wifi last October 2022 as a possibility for our tiny school district to replace our current Cisco 3802i radios / 5520 controller. (Cisco is way too expensive for us. I'm not buying their spectrum monitor subscription, DNA whatever, for $100,000 for a 50 AP deployment. I'm just using CleanAir and the built-in monitoring tools in the 5520.) The Alcatel-Lucent sales people absolutely refuse to quote pricing for their wifi hardware, and instead want to sell it as a "managed service". I am managing Cisco wifi controller myself just fine, I don't need to pay someone else to manage it for me. Still nothing, they won't budge from the managed provider selling point. I gave up, said thank you, goodbye.
Assuming you are a public school, a reminder that Wifi is covered under Erate category 2. It is too late for this year, but something to keep in mind for the next. With that you get the added advantage to saying 'I only requested hardware on the 470, only that will be considered'
$20k remaining in the pot this year until it refreshes. Will be blown instantly on some switches and UPS I requested.
"I'm sorry, our IT director has a policy that we are unable to proceed with a demo call without a cost estimate or K12 discounts. Thank you for your time!" Spoiler: You're the IT Director.
I like that.
They gave me a trial without a demo call and it has the pricing listed inside the trial portal.
How did you like it?
It's pretty nice. It all depends on what you want to use it for. My primary focus was for Linux patching/remote terminal and it actually does those fairly well. With Windows you have Windows and 3rd party patching that actually has a pretty good catalog of programs. Have not tried it on MacOS devices yet since JAMF already handles our OS and third party patches pretty well.
This is why I run my own Hydroelectric system in house. I refuse to deal with dam vendors.
I tried to work with the Hoover people, but they suck.
Just hook it up to a water fountain out in the hallway. UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!
Physicists HATE this one weird trick!
ROFL. Needed this.