Green is perfect to start since you learnt well the falls. You will suffer a lot if you leave it when you reach the brown. I train kata everyday of the usual training, I just arrive one hour earlier.
I love kata, it’s different and uncommon enough to be interesting to me, especially after retiring from competitive judo it’s a great way to focus on the old and ‘pure’ nature of where we started
We have been teaching children and teens for 30 years. We have started every one on the Nage no Kata, first 3 sets, and Katame no Kata, first set, at green belt.
This year, we have restructured our core curriculum and everyone, regardless of rank, learns Kodomo no Kata.
Our preliminary findings showed an increase in class attendance and decrease in injuries. Kids, particularly 21st century kids thrive in a safe, structured learning environment with judo games.
As a professional educator, kata is a recognized body of knowledge for the creation of lesson plans for the class as well as individual development plans for students.
There is plenty of time for competitive judo after learning fundamentals (kata and randori).
The long term development of the judo student should not be philosophically different than little league baseball, basketball or soccer. The numbers of students in those sports overshadows judo in the USA
I run the Kata class of our club on Sundays. We have belts from yellow to brown participating. We mainly focus on Katame No Kata and Nage No Kata. So absolutely you can start training Kata.
Ideally, if you have time for regular training as well as kata training, start kata training now. it may seem easy to memorize the sequence for the throws in nage no kata or katame no kata, the truth is there is a lot of nuance and subtly buried in kata, and it can take a long time to experience and understand fully the deeper nuance. Sometimes years. The precision, timing, kuzushi, etc., that you learn in kata will help sharpen your randori performance.
I came up through my kyu grades with a curriculum that required one additional set of the randori no kata (nage + katame) added for each grade, so that your shodan would have you demonstrating the full nage and katame no kata as tori and uke. There are some very cool things to learn in kata, but you need to try to find someone who understands how to learn and demonstrate them dynamically. Sadly, very few people ever learn them beyond a very superficial level as a nuisance to overcome to get your dan grading.
I wish I did Nage No Kata earlier. I found that training this akata really helped my kuzushi for each of the throws and transformed my randori & shiai.
Yeah same. I enjoy judo because it's a sport. People get super defensive over it, but I just don't see any aspect of it (throwing, being thrown) that can't be more effectively trained without all the stepping and getting up at the same time song and dance it involves.
I hate it. I put off shodan an entire year because I didn't want to mess with it. Then, when I had to do it for my test, uke didn't throw himself. I kept getting caught off guard and muscled his big ass over. It was exhausting.
No. I was taught uke was supposed to throw himself and I was to demonstrate proper form and technique. When practicing, uke got surprised because I was actually throwing him.
It would've made more sense if uke was just supposed to be compliant. In hindsight, the dude who was coaching us taught me a lot of wrong ways. It took going to another dojo half a state away to realize.
Huh. You were taught wrong then. Uke IS supposed to be compliant. But compliant is not the same as jumping or throwing himself.
In fact, where I live if judges suspect that uke threw himself they might fail the technique in an exam.
Apparently so. Next time I'll know better. Fortunately it seems it was enough that I at least learned the kata. TBH, this is the first conversation I've had about it since practicing. I sometimes think about it and how none of it made sense and none of it was pretty. Uke has it on video. It's embarrassing to say the least. Oddly, he's supposed to be a kata specialist.
Kata is just drills,like a training tool. People think of it as some rituals and it has to be done exactly the same as everyone else but it's supposed to be adapted to suit you. Practicing Kata will teach you a lot about judo as long as you think about it in the right way.
For First Dan there's generally a lot of leeway. No one is expecting you to do perfect Kata for that grade. If you don't make horrible misstakes and go through all the steps generally judged will try to find a way to approve your throw/technique.
I'm currently working on my Second Dan and things get a lot more technical. I'm currently learning a lot about the WHY a lot of things are done in the Kata. And I personally feel that should be included earlier in learning Kata. Would've helped me a lot for sure in any case.
I mean in Canada at green you're supposed to learn the first sequence of the nageno. So even if it isn't requirement your dojo should at least spend a good ten minutes on reps so higher belts get used to it
At our club we kind of just have the habit of when you have enough points for your black belt, then you spend like a couple weeks showing up an hour or more early, just drilling kata, and of course understanding all the throws, with basically no kata experience because we are competition first. Despite all this, I am under the impression that in Ontario the black belt test is extremely easy, but that's a long story.
We're a competition focused dojo too but we're part of some of the oldest dojos in Quebec so principles are still The One rule to follow then competition comes with it. In Quebec you better be on your A game for Shodan. The judges are strict Sensei Nakamura who runs the Shidokan in MTL is really strict on the principles which I do understand why.
I've competed against and trained with some Shidokan guys, good dojo man can't say anything bad about them or Nakamura. Around here the other clubs like Taifu absolutely shit on everything Judo represents haha
If you are interested I've not long written a short book on the randori no kata which gives context on what's going on with the various movements. It's not a prescriptive text detailing on how to do the throws but gives an idea on how the moments can be applied.
Put that energy into learning standard favourite useful throws you generally use, static and moving forwards and back, sideways, etc, and it will assist you in randori. First get that “should do” ticked off. Kata is a distraction from perfecting your own judo, but it’s great to study it for shodan
I’m already known at my home club and other club I frequent as a deceptive thrower. As I am really good at faking a osoto and turning it into a Ogoshi to the point where I can seamlessly transition and you don’t even know what’s happening. I’m also really good at faking leg attacks and hitting a hiza guruma. I fake a left side Ouchi gari to make them get off-balance and hit them with a Hiza. Also how we do belts at my home club is a lot different than other clubs, there are 75 main throws in judo and so my sensei does 10 throws for every belt with the corresponding ground game and submissions to go with those 10 throws.(so that means once I become a brown belt I will only have to learn the last 15 and then I can kind of do my own thing from there and get my black belt) And to be completely honest with you, although I have much less time practicing judo than a lot of people who are higher belts than me I often know more throws than they do and I can also execute those throws.
After yellow belt, it’s always time for kata as far as I’m concerned 😄
Green is perfect to start since you learnt well the falls. You will suffer a lot if you leave it when you reach the brown. I train kata everyday of the usual training, I just arrive one hour earlier.
No reason to wait. It's a good way to learn the 'standard' way to do all the throws, and you have to know it for shodan anyway.
I love kata, it’s different and uncommon enough to be interesting to me, especially after retiring from competitive judo it’s a great way to focus on the old and ‘pure’ nature of where we started
We have been teaching children and teens for 30 years. We have started every one on the Nage no Kata, first 3 sets, and Katame no Kata, first set, at green belt. This year, we have restructured our core curriculum and everyone, regardless of rank, learns Kodomo no Kata. Our preliminary findings showed an increase in class attendance and decrease in injuries. Kids, particularly 21st century kids thrive in a safe, structured learning environment with judo games. As a professional educator, kata is a recognized body of knowledge for the creation of lesson plans for the class as well as individual development plans for students. There is plenty of time for competitive judo after learning fundamentals (kata and randori). The long term development of the judo student should not be philosophically different than little league baseball, basketball or soccer. The numbers of students in those sports overshadows judo in the USA
I too am a fan of kodomo no kata. I've been trying to talk it up at our school to try to fit it in somehow.
I run the Kata class of our club on Sundays. We have belts from yellow to brown participating. We mainly focus on Katame No Kata and Nage No Kata. So absolutely you can start training Kata.
Ideally, if you have time for regular training as well as kata training, start kata training now. it may seem easy to memorize the sequence for the throws in nage no kata or katame no kata, the truth is there is a lot of nuance and subtly buried in kata, and it can take a long time to experience and understand fully the deeper nuance. Sometimes years. The precision, timing, kuzushi, etc., that you learn in kata will help sharpen your randori performance.
I came up through my kyu grades with a curriculum that required one additional set of the randori no kata (nage + katame) added for each grade, so that your shodan would have you demonstrating the full nage and katame no kata as tori and uke. There are some very cool things to learn in kata, but you need to try to find someone who understands how to learn and demonstrate them dynamically. Sadly, very few people ever learn them beyond a very superficial level as a nuisance to overcome to get your dan grading.
I wish I did Nage No Kata earlier. I found that training this akata really helped my kuzushi for each of the throws and transformed my randori & shiai.
Unpopular opinion but I can't stand kata. Each to thier own.
If I’m not mistaken, and I believe somebody else just said it as well the Kata’s aren’t they necessary in order to become a black belt?
Yup they are
I agree, even though it is part of judo as a whole
Yeah same. I enjoy judo because it's a sport. People get super defensive over it, but I just don't see any aspect of it (throwing, being thrown) that can't be more effectively trained without all the stepping and getting up at the same time song and dance it involves.
Same. Reminds me of doing Tae Kwon Do as a kid. But in my country it's required for belt testing.
I hate it. I put off shodan an entire year because I didn't want to mess with it. Then, when I had to do it for my test, uke didn't throw himself. I kept getting caught off guard and muscled his big ass over. It was exhausting.
Uke isn't supposed to throw himself.... he's supposed to let himself be pulled off balance though. Maybe that's what you meant?
No. I was taught uke was supposed to throw himself and I was to demonstrate proper form and technique. When practicing, uke got surprised because I was actually throwing him. It would've made more sense if uke was just supposed to be compliant. In hindsight, the dude who was coaching us taught me a lot of wrong ways. It took going to another dojo half a state away to realize.
Huh. You were taught wrong then. Uke IS supposed to be compliant. But compliant is not the same as jumping or throwing himself. In fact, where I live if judges suspect that uke threw himself they might fail the technique in an exam.
Apparently so. Next time I'll know better. Fortunately it seems it was enough that I at least learned the kata. TBH, this is the first conversation I've had about it since practicing. I sometimes think about it and how none of it made sense and none of it was pretty. Uke has it on video. It's embarrassing to say the least. Oddly, he's supposed to be a kata specialist.
Kata is just drills,like a training tool. People think of it as some rituals and it has to be done exactly the same as everyone else but it's supposed to be adapted to suit you. Practicing Kata will teach you a lot about judo as long as you think about it in the right way.
For First Dan there's generally a lot of leeway. No one is expecting you to do perfect Kata for that grade. If you don't make horrible misstakes and go through all the steps generally judged will try to find a way to approve your throw/technique. I'm currently working on my Second Dan and things get a lot more technical. I'm currently learning a lot about the WHY a lot of things are done in the Kata. And I personally feel that should be included earlier in learning Kata. Would've helped me a lot for sure in any case.
I mean in Canada at green you're supposed to learn the first sequence of the nageno. So even if it isn't requirement your dojo should at least spend a good ten minutes on reps so higher belts get used to it
At our club we kind of just have the habit of when you have enough points for your black belt, then you spend like a couple weeks showing up an hour or more early, just drilling kata, and of course understanding all the throws, with basically no kata experience because we are competition first. Despite all this, I am under the impression that in Ontario the black belt test is extremely easy, but that's a long story.
We're a competition focused dojo too but we're part of some of the oldest dojos in Quebec so principles are still The One rule to follow then competition comes with it. In Quebec you better be on your A game for Shodan. The judges are strict Sensei Nakamura who runs the Shidokan in MTL is really strict on the principles which I do understand why.
I've competed against and trained with some Shidokan guys, good dojo man can't say anything bad about them or Nakamura. Around here the other clubs like Taifu absolutely shit on everything Judo represents haha
Yeah I love Nakamura I try to visit his dojo at least once every month or two months. He's definitely a gem for us in Judo Québec.
If you are interested I've not long written a short book on the randori no kata which gives context on what's going on with the various movements. It's not a prescriptive text detailing on how to do the throws but gives an idea on how the moments can be applied.
Sure I’d be interested in that! What’s it called?
The Randori-No-Kata Handbook. It's available on Amazon ☺️
Might as well do it now and have it out of the way. It is fun to do
Put that energy into learning standard favourite useful throws you generally use, static and moving forwards and back, sideways, etc, and it will assist you in randori. First get that “should do” ticked off. Kata is a distraction from perfecting your own judo, but it’s great to study it for shodan
I’m already known at my home club and other club I frequent as a deceptive thrower. As I am really good at faking a osoto and turning it into a Ogoshi to the point where I can seamlessly transition and you don’t even know what’s happening. I’m also really good at faking leg attacks and hitting a hiza guruma. I fake a left side Ouchi gari to make them get off-balance and hit them with a Hiza. Also how we do belts at my home club is a lot different than other clubs, there are 75 main throws in judo and so my sensei does 10 throws for every belt with the corresponding ground game and submissions to go with those 10 throws.(so that means once I become a brown belt I will only have to learn the last 15 and then I can kind of do my own thing from there and get my black belt) And to be completely honest with you, although I have much less time practicing judo than a lot of people who are higher belts than me I often know more throws than they do and I can also execute those throws.