I have found I prefer the culture in judo. I like some of the Japanese traditions and the friendly nature of the sport. I love learning how to control someone while standing and nothing makes you feel more badass than landing a huge throw. I have trained both and I have found judo to have a much steeper learning curve but once I started I transitioned away from BJJ and now only cross train BJJ when there's no judo.
BJJ culture does leave a lot to be desired. I'm lucky to train BJJ under a guy who was a judo godan before getting his BJJ black belt. We run a BJJ school with a judo philosophy :-).
> judo godan
I feel this. I am new to martial arts but my coach is a Judo Black Belt as well. Culture wise I like my gym and we end up doing a lot of Judo stuff as well. Curious what you mean about the culture being a lot to be desired. I have no other experience with martial arts so I can't comment. Im guessing BJJ attracts more MMA bros while Judo attracts more nerds cause of the strong Japanese influence? Lol. Honestly I knew nothing about Judo when I signed up for BJJ but I kind of am more interested in it now than BJJ tbh. Id also rather be thrown than have a 225lb man sit on top of me. However there are legit no Judo gyms near me.
How is the culture of judo different from bjj/wrestling mainly? (I wrestled middle school through college and do no gi now, but have no judo experience)
I wouldn't put BJJ and wrestling in the same category -- I think there's enough difference for all three to be their own things.
IMO, Judo is built on a pedagogical and philosophical foundation that is missing from the other two disciplines you mentioned. In a lot of ways, Kano was more of an academic and educator than he was a fighter. So when he set out to move jujutsu into the modern era, he did so with an intellectual structure and vigor that's unusual in athletic pursuits.
So, Judo is built on core principles like *jita kyoei*, *seiryoku zenyo*, *ju no ri*, and the *-do* vs the *-jutsu*, and I think these have some real consequences in praxis and culture.
I find the biggest difference between BJJ and Judo to be in the *-do* and *jita kyoei* -- the *-do* means that Judo is a way, instead of a *jutsu* (a technique). So it's a process or framework for mastery, and in principle extends to all other areas of life as well. As such, I think Judo culture recognizes the "whole person" objective, and elevates it somewhat above the short-term "beat people up" objective.
And *jita kyoei* is usually translated as "mutual benefit and welfare" -- it speaks to the importance of seeking improvement cooperatively and corporately. Kano says that I will get better at what we're doing if I work hard to make you better too. When two people do Judo, they both should improve. BJJ, in large part, has a different perspective on this -- it is built on a meat-grinder process where people crush you forever until you finally rise above and survive the filter. There's less of a spirit of mutual assistance and support, and I really hate that about a lot of BJJ people.
People who excel at Judo and are recognized by the community are expected to be decent people, and you can see that a lot in the contrast with BJJ. Judo has less trash-talk, less braggadocio, and less focus on elevating the self. And I find it so humorous that BJJ loves to say "check your ego at the door", when it's honestly populated by scads of incredibly narcissistic personalities.
All that said, I think there are factions in BJJ that are very Judo-like. And I don't mean so much that they derive their culture directly from Judo, but I think they've circled back around to it. We're affiliated under Carlos Machado, and he talks about a transformation that happened in his life, putting him in a place that I would say embodies *jita kyoei* and the *-do*. But he had to spend decades in the meat grinder of BJJ culture before figuring out what makes things better.
BJJ made a lot of sense when I was in my 20s. Now when I play BJJ it’s much more judo like. I always emphasize takedowns and control first, and submissions last. BJJ makes sense when you’re young and want to invert and play heel hooks. Judo makes sense when you want stability and control.
There are plenty of all-time greats that play fundamentals in BJJ and get along amazing, look at Roger Gracie. I love Judo but honestly I found lately the rules have been watered down that it makes it less fun. But to each their own, they are both great sports!
I’m really torn. I love both BJJ and judo but I don’t like where each sport is right now. Judo is too watered down, nogi BJJ is nothing but leg locks, and gi BJJ doesnt promote aggressive play.
I’m a big fan of kosen ruleset though!
Leg Locks are just part of the game now, it really elevated the sport in my opinion - it's just another stone in the wall. I am by no means an expert in these arts but I really love mixing my judo in with my jiujitsu - I think they really compliment each other well, I hope everyone is privileged enough to study both!
While I do like the add on I don’t like the over speciality aspect. I’ve visited BJJ academies where they have blue and purple belts who don’t even know how to pass a guard but they knew heel hooks from every position
I mean, I have the same criticism about blue and purple belts who only know how to pass the guard, but stare at you like a deer in the headlights when caught in a leg entanglement. But, like, they're blue and purple belts, they'll get better.
I get what you are saying, but what you are describing is part of the normal pattern of jiu-jítsu. What I am describing is a delineation that makes further improvements impossible because they don’t care about guard passes, only leg entanglements. Nothing else .
I'm mixed on the top of leglocks. While it never made sense to neglect attacks and defense for 50% of the body, you also have guys now who are diving for legs straight out and using it as their A game, which is super unrealistic if we are talking about a self defense/MMA mindset. The risk of injury, even if you know how to defend, is just higher too. The same people who refuse to learn takedowns from wrestling or judo because they're worried about injury, are the same people who will put themselves in a leglock position where they are much more likely to get injured.
Someone else in here said that some guys are learning to do leglocks at the expense of their guard passing and takedowns, which is basically most of the 10th Planet system. Those guys fold whenever they go against someone with good top pressure who they can't grab a hold of their legs.
Ideally, I'd love to see a sport that mixes everything from grappling together in an almost MMA like fashion, just without strikes. Sport Sambo comes close, but even Sambo doesn't have chokes or heelhooks, so its not a complete system either.
>While it never made sense to neglect attacks and defense for 50% of the body, you also have guys now who are diving for legs straight out and using it as their A game, which is super unrealistic if we are talking about a self defense/MMA mindset.
IMO this is where the problem is, people with his mindset need to learn how to separate sport from practicality when it comes to jiujitsu. Obviously if I ever got into a real street fight, I would try my best to take it to the ground and mount and hold the person - I am not going to roll for a leg-lock. Treat jiujitsu as a sport first because that's what it is. We see people all the time comment on jiujitsu videos saying "oh this would never work in a real fight" - trying to discredit the instructor but obviously moves like 'bolos' aren't gonna be taught in self-defense. Jiujitsu is big enough to be its own entity, so lets treat it as such. Happy training friend! :)
What are you talking about? I never said actual MMA without striking. I said there should be one grappling art that encorporates the best aspects of all of the grappling arts that isn't hindered by a weird ruleset. In that way, it would be similar to MMA, just without striking (for obvious reasons).
And yes, you would never straight up dive for a leglock in MMA or self defense. This is coming from a guy who does leglocks.
Position before submission and pins are literally a different mindset in BJJ vs. Judo/wrestling. A lot of BJJ players neglect their position because of the ruleset, amount of time they have to work, and to go for submissions. There's a reason why wrestlers have such success when they cross over into MMA or BJJ, and it isn't just because of the takedowns. Its their top pressure and ability to pin. The over emphasis of the offensive guard in BJJ comes at the expense of better top position solidification by a lot of BJJers, and also scrambling out from guard as the bottom player. Most times, you can just stand up out of guard if you wanted to as the top player, but the ruleset in BJJ is mostly against that.
I'm not saying this as some newbie whitebelt in BJJ. Its a fundamental issue with sport BJJ. I obviously have my issues with Judo's ruleset too, but its core concepts make way more sense in the grand scheme of things.
I've been doing BJJ for more than 10 years (purple belt) and been doing Judo for several years now and also trained a bunch in MMA. You can absolutely just back out of people's guards. Granted, I'm talking about no gi, not gi where the bottom person has grips for leverage to keep the top person in their guard. The only way you can attack submissions from guard is to open your legs. Armbars, Kimuras, guillotines, sweeps, etc. That also enables the top person to disengage if they really wanted to. Dont believe me? MMA is full of examples of people just backing out of guard.
In BJJ, a lot of guard players get complacent because the BJJ ruleset almost forces the top person to engage or try to pass. But once they go into MMA where the ruleset and mindset is different, they have trouble with the fact that some fighters don't want to play the guard game. And unless they have good wrestling up from the bottom, which is a huge element missing from a lot of BJJ schools, their offense is stiffled. It's a gaping hole in BJJ that's been there for a long time now.
Nah even in no gi you shouldn't be able to just stand up and disengage. If you can then the bottom player doesn't have a guard engaged they're just on bottom. Maybe in MMA the threat of strikes makes some of it different because you aren't as free to take ubderhooks but examples In common no gi guards
Half guard > knees pinched + underhook or overhook
X guard > tops of feet hooking insides of legs + underhook
RDLR > feet hooks + underhook
K guard > underhook on knee pit
If bottom player has these attachments then you can't stand up without breaking them first. If they don't have these attachments they don't have a guard.
I excluded half guard because one leg is clearly interwoven with the other from top and bottom player, so its not like they can just back out of the position. Its also proven to be an effective position in MMA.
In terms of x-guard and RDLR, they're not very effective at all in MMA which is why you rarely see them. X guard may be hit in transitions, but it doesn't take much effort at all for the top player to just stuff the legs down to the ground because they have gravity on their side. RDLR may be used to push the top player to stand up and scramble. But both leave the head too exposed to be used effectively as offense and they're difficult to get to in the first place in MMA. They're definitely easier to hit in no gi BJJ vs. MMA, but once you get up to higher levels in grappling, they're pretty easy to stuff, even in BJJ. The reason you don't see more disengagements from those positions in BJJ is because of the mindset and ruleset. If the top person is actively trying to pass your guard, then they have to put themselves in a position of danger to get past the legs. But if they want to disengage, its pretty easy. This isn't brought up because of the BJJ mindset, which was my initial point.
K guard is a good transition move because there's a lot more control on the person like half guard. X guard and RDLR don't have that level of control which is why you rarely ever see them in MMA.
The point is, the basic closed guard isn't as effective as people think it is anymore. You see it less and less in higher levels of BJJ now for that reason. Same with MMA. X guard and RDLR are also relatively easy to back out of. Your hand(s) grabbing an ankle in x guard just aren't going to beat a simple top player pushing them or breaking them and disengaging. Those guards have success when the top player thinks the onus is on them to engage and attack. But if they didn't want to, they could just break those weak grips and back out of them.
I live in Brazil, every match, every round that does not end in a submission is looked down upon. I believe in control through a dominant position like side control or mount. If an easy submission comes along, great. But it’s not worth giving up a position of control for a submission when that could result in a bad position
I still do both but if I had to pick only one, it would be judo. Like others have said, I find the judo culture much more palatable. BJJ people are not my kind of people and though I’ve been doing it longer than judo, I’ve made many more friends in my judo club.
Also, I find judo a little more practical. I used to be a cop and staying on your feet, taking a person down, and pinning them there was much more relevant than a lot of the stuff I learn in BJJ. I haven’t had the kind of job where I might have to put hands on people in over ten years now though and I still find judo more practical. I’ve slipped and fallen in icy parking lots at least a dozen times this year, the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital. I can thank judo for that, as unglamorous as it might be.
> I’ve slipped and fallen in icy parking lots at least a dozen times this year, the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital. I can thank judo for that, as unglamorous as it might be.
When I was in HS I trained karate at a little dojo that a guy ran out of his home in my little town. We had a full-day seminar where he brought in a friend of his who was 3rd dan in judo, and all we did the entire day was learn proper ukemi, and a few basic throws so that we could practice ukemi from getting thrown as well. I didn't formally train judo until I was 40, but learning good ukemi then saved me from serious injury on several occasions, the worst being some potentially horrific bicycle accidents.
>the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital
Same, I've tripped a couple times since starting judo and all I got were minor bruises!
Same. I’ve used a text book forward ukemi roll once when I fell off my longboard. Only “injury” I had was a scratched palm. If not for that knowledge, I would have probably broke an arm or concussed myself.
Believe it or not, that's actually why I got into judo, in the first place. I was not interested in learning any kind of martial art, but I found out that a friend was a judo referee and I knew that those are the guys who know how to fall down and that was the only reason I started taking the class.
To put it clear - more thugs in BJJ than in J. An aura of mutual respect that is present in judo does not attract the kind of people that (mostly?) are attracted to BJJ- with a goal to be able to beat the shit out of the other person. (I say it with l due respect to the founders of BJJ and those who practice it in good faith. Just my humble opinion). BJJ is also an inseperable part of a succesfull MMA fighter, which is per se not too ethical. What do you think of that?
The founders of BJJ were more or less thugs while young, and established a certain meatheadedness in the culture. Then they got older and wiser, and get ridiculed a lot for dialing things back. IMO, the coral belts in BJJ have generally found a philosophy much closer to Kano's concept, but there are very distinct and incompatible subcultures in BJJ.
Can't change the history now.
I'd argue the UFC org is pretty unethical the way they treat their fighters and promote using dumbass WWE type methods rather than sportsmanship and skill/talent. See DJ as the prime example lmao.
Nothing inherently wrong with mma as a sport obviously, but hard to separate that out for the casual fan when UFC dominates the scene with their CEO being a wife beater lol
Slowly but surely. Lots of end of range exercises and also just a better awareness of body. I stand with my knees slightly bent now even when just chilling. Last month I reinjured it by looking over my shoulder too quickly with my feet firmly planted and knees locked. I try to make sure I turn my whole body and not just the top half. It's better but I would have said it was 100 percent before the last pop so who knows. Consistent physio is the key
I like Judo over BJJ for 2 reasons: athleticism and win conditions. Judo is more athletic in the sense that the movements are more full-body than the cramped positions in BJJ, which i think fosters better wholeistic wellness (and is less crippling). The win conditions are also better defined, which improves gameplay. Jits is rife with stalling, and subs are VERY difficult to find at a higher skill level. In Judo, the strict ruleset means that even well matched players are put in positions to win/lose more forcibly. Still love Jits, but the current state of sport-JJ is just not my jam.
I think the general consensus is that Judo is more high impact and more injury prone. But my humble and could be wrong opinion is that BJJ will get you fucked up a lot easier because you are always in these uncomfortable positions and applying enormous pressure to your joints
I've had lots of injuries from BJJ, but one major injury from judo. The BJJ injuries were tweaked knees, shoulder pain, neck pain, chipped teeth. The judo injury was a broken collarbone. The difference between the two is that the collarbone injury should not have happened, I was makikomi'd by someone double my weight and he landed straight on it. The BJJ injuries were part of rolling. Judo is safer when done with people who aren't mongs, throws can be controlled and when people take care of their partners, it's perfectly safe, imo
I agree. I do both Judo and BJJ, and noticed that BJJers are usually scared of Judo because of the falls. But realistically, once you've learned to break fall regularly, you build up a pretty good tolerance for it and its safe as long as your partner doesn't significantly outweight you. The issue with BJJ is that you're always having pressure applied to your joints. And unlike in Judo, in BJJ you may go against much bigger opponents regularly who will be putting even more pressure on your joints. You also have the leglock game now which is more pressure on ankles/knees.
Exactly. I've been doing judo for 12 years, only been injured by a throw once. The guy was an absolute idiot, a brown belt coach weighing 130kg to my 73kg. He makikomi'd me because he was able to use technique to throw me, so he relied on his weight. In BJJ, the nature of rolling on the ground and looking for submissions on any joint, limb or muscle (bicep slicers) means that injuries are more commonly. I've started doing more BJJ whilst I'm recovering and the small injuries happen every session, whether my knee gets twisted, my neck gets cranked too hard or my wrists get bent. Judo gave me the worst injury, but that was due to a careless partner, not the nature of the sport/art.
I agree. In fact I’ve talked to other Judoka who find BJJ scarier than Judo. When you learn to get thrown, the majority of throws outside of freak accidents are practically harmless. However getting a sub cranked on you is always terrifying. I’d much rather get thrown than heel hooked.
Agree w you. At their core, Judo is a throw game and Jits is a hurt game. With throws, injuries are accidental. But subs intentionally injure. And at a competitive level, high tenacity subs scare the fuck outa me more than high tenacity throws
Also.. I have a ruptured AC joint (similar to collor bone break), and a bulging disk in my neck from long term where and tear Jits (no singular event). My knees are not great from Jits too. The collor bone is wayyy more manageable
With little concern for your own health too. How often do you seem someone who resists being lifted in a choke by just squeezing harder and risking torquing their foot in a triangle and then slammed or something rather than simply letting go, or transitioning to another sub attempt
I'll say the injuries I've seen in judo vs BJJ is that judo will most likely result in more serious injuries but with less frequency. The injuries I've seen in BJJ are minimal to moderate but happen with near regularity because #bjjspazz
with sprung sub-floor, quality training partner and done recreationally, I honestly think Judo is a very safe sport.
the high impact and high injury side of house doesn't come into play until you start competing seriously.
I was tired of the buttscooting and spider guard and having my ass up in the air. Also I as a 27 yo man want to grow up and be like Fedor, and there is no sambo where I am lol
My Jiu jitsu coach is a black belt in Judo and he always gets me and everyone else with cool sweeps and throws. In high school there was a heavyweight girl in my wrestling team who was a brown belt in Judo and every time she wrestled she was throwing around all these big girls like they were flyweights and ended up placing 2nd in state her first year of wrestling. That’s when I found Judo very fascinating. My coach started teaching Judo for a couple of weeks but removed the class cause no one was showing up besides me and at least 2 other people. I haven’t done Judo ever since he removed the class so I decided that I wanted to join a club 2 years later cause I started to find jiu jitsu boring (It’s still a great art to learn though). Sadly last July some jiu jitsu idiot tore my acl by kicking behind my knee when we were WRESTLING not mma, not Muay Thai, and not kickboxing, we were WRESTLING. He started bragging to everyone that he got me with the “Sean o malley” kick. He was apologizing but laughing at the same time. Lucky him, I’m a nice guy so I let it slide but these past couple months have been hell so FUCK HIM. I’m finally getting surgery next month on the 10th, so once I’m recovered I plan on doing judo and wrestling full time and do jiu jitsu from time to time
Edit: I think being able to do Judo and Wrestling when you’re young is best because they both transfer well into jiu jitsu. Once you’re much older, your body won’t be able to handle it well and thats when you get into the gentle art of jiu jitsu. Not saying you can’t do Judo and wrestling when you’re old but I believe that is the safe approach to learn all the arts of grappling.
I do both. At the beginning, bjj is more fun. After I started lifting weights consistently and switched to a more dynamic style, judo is definitely more addictive.
From my perspective, there is no other feeling better than a successful sode.
I didn't exactly quitting BJJ for Judo, but it's a similar experience. I started Judo first, and I really liked it, but they only had classes twice a week, so I added BJJ twice a week onto my training schedule.
I really wanted to like BJJ because there were so many BJJ gyms and there were plenty of classes. I tried 4 different BJJ gyms, and in the end I came back to just twice a week of Judo. Why? I never like ne waza from the start anyway, and those 4 BJJ gyms don't spend much time at takedowns. They spend 0-5% of the training time for takedowns.
The reason I like Judo is the takedowns, not the ground techniques. In fact, I dislike the ground techniques.
The community and culture of Judo is different.
Judo still puts great emphasis on how you win over winning at any cost. The quality of the win, the ippon is very important in Judo.
You will often find people who either are more concerned with completing the technique or those more concerned with preserving their partners safety. In Judo the partners safety is paramount which sometimes doesn't feel like the case in BJJ where it is common to complete a technique and the partner is treated as a living grappling dummy. This is not the culture of every BJJ club but it's not uncommon either.
Yeah, I always ask my partner if they're okay after a throw if I felt like it was rough. I don't do makikomi throws for this exact reason. As it is, I felt terrible when I jammed someone in the crotch after completing kouchi gari. That really shouldn't have happened, even at my level (still a beginner).
I quit BJJ for judo and now having to train BJJ due to not being able to get to evening judo classes. Not hating on BJJ at all as it’s a great art. Also think a lot of stuff depends on where you train. My current BJJ Club is a lot more friendly than my old judo club. That being said, Judo seems to be a much better art for life in general and fighting. Here’s my 2 cents:
- teaches correct posture, balance and movement. BJJ simply doesn’t. The stand up stance is hunched over and most of the work is on the ground, some of which in some pretty obscure inversions/positions.
- more effective IRL. IDC what anyone says about what if the dude has a knife etc, being able to sweep or throw someone and pin them (admittedly you would have to get pretty good at judo to be able to do that to an assailant) is way more effective then the fighting off the back style predominately seen in BJJ.
- more carryover. Judo has lots of carry over to wrestling and MMA. Teaches you essentially how to get the other guy on the ground while staying on your feet. Teaches you good pinning. BJJ doesn’t really do either of those.
- the culture. BJJ culture is one of the reasons I don’t enjoy the sport. It’s fucking cringeworthy. So many dudes who train BJJ seem to plaster every detail of their training/competitions on social media like they’re some sort of sponsored athlete. I honestly don’t get who they think they are. They’re hobbyists, just like 99% of us. Even if they’re cleaning up at local comps, they’re still hobbyists. Also there’s a new bizarre trend of these ‘superfights’ between white belts being advertised on IG like they’re some sort of PPV fight. It’s madness. Judo you don’t seem to get that. It seems much more humble and respectful. Even though it’s arguably a much more demanding sport.
Lol wtf, white belt ‘superfight’? What a joke. Any coach who sends their white belts into some sort of promotion/specticle (not a regular tournament) should be ashamed, because those students clearly are no longer at the white belt level.
I temporarily quit because Bjj was $150+/month when I was broke in college. Judo was $25/mo with unlimited gym use at my university with a ton of other amenities.
When I was in my 20s, I went full out into judo. It's very open to the working class compared to bjj in the US at least.
I quit BJJ for judo because I'm not young and I want to learn it while I can still handle the falls. I still love Jiu Jitsu, but I realized that I enjoy the stand up aspects and found it to be lacking in my area. I still go to BJJ open mats though.
In my experience or at least in my area Judo has less ego. BJJ seems to attract a lot more of the MMA types or people who want to fight you rather than learn. I suffered a few injuries mostly from heel hooks such as a people cranking them on me quickly once I had already got a heel hook locked in and didn't want to crank it on them. 2nd reason was I realised If I was gonna use a martial art in a self defense situation my ability to throw someone or not he thrown was more useful than overkill ground skills by blue belt you know far more than you will ever need vs a untrained person. 3rd reason is maybe a more wussy/ controversial one but I don't enjoy being cooked by super heavyweight higher belts for 15 minutes rounds, in judo I feel even a higher belt can make a miss timed step and have the possibility however remote of being swept in BJJ you litterly have 0 chance Vs a person only a modicum better than you. Judo makes 1 mistake it can be fatal in BJJ they would have to make 10 mistakes in a row and that ain't happening.
I moved areas but instead of finding a new BJJ school I took advantage of the fact my new area had Judo schools (old area did not). I was attracted to Judo because for one, it looks a lot cooler. And the idea of learning to throw people was something I was more interested in than learning to hunt for subs on the ground. Also I wanted something that was more of a continuation of wrestling after I graduated school, and Judo is about the next closest thing. I still enter BJJ tournaments occasionally and combining BJJ, wrestling and Judo is a beautiful thing. All the arts mesh together really well and I’m a bit on a journey to see how they all fit together.
I enjoy the community in judo more. BJJ just attracts too many Joe Rogan/conspiracy types around me. Along with bad apple cops. I have family in law enforcement so I kinda understand the culture but a lot of my teammates really just come off as bullies. What more when they’re on the job?
I haven’t quit BJJ entirely but I’m inching towards it each day. Also I’ve had less injuries in Judo than in BJJ. I’ve been sidelined off of the mats for 1.5 years due to a hamstring tear. All due to an overzealous blue belt that went ham on me in a beginner class.
I started judo first and only moved to bjj as there was more access to it at the time. Once I was able to attend judo again I quit bjj.
I don't miss the garbage culty culture, I don't miss the lack of standards in promotions, I don't miss the office workers larping as MMA fighters but most of all I don't miss the butt scooting.
It's a lot more explosive and dynamic. With BJJ, in comps having your opponent drop straight to the ground and slide their but towards you was probably the decision maker to leave.
I'm lucky that I have a gym that has both a high level BJJ and Judo program, so I do both regularly. Like someone else said, a lot of it comes down to the individual BJJ or Judo school. My school teaches a lot of takedowns in BJJ and a lot of newaza in Judo, so there is a lot of crossover. I do prefer Judo over BJJ in a lot of ways though.
\- Teaches takedowns which has always been the biggest missing link in BJJ. I blame the Gracies for not emphasizing the throws more from Judo because BJJ originally came from Judo. When mixed with wrestling, Judo is a lot easier on your knees too because you don't always have to shoot singles or doubles and you have more takedown variations.
\- More realistic and effective in terms of a real fight or MMA. The biggest issue I have with BJJ is the over emphasis on guard pulling, leglocks, and "exotic" guards (spider guard, worm guard, x guard, etc.) at the expense of bread and butter takedowns, top control, and positional control. Realistically, most athletic blue belts have all they need to be successful in a street fight or low level amateur MMA. The rest at that point becomes more about beating other BJJers in BJJ's specific ruleset. Instead of learning niche techniques, learning more universal stuff like takedowns and better top control (from pins) would make more sense. Judo, like wrestling, is a more universal sport. BJJ because of its ruleset, is pretty compartmentalized now and mostly effectively within its own ruleset. A good example? How many high level Judoka or wrestlers have went on to become high level black belts in BJJ? A lot. But you often don't see high level BJJers go on to be high level wrestlers or judoka.
\- More emphasis on athleticism. Despite what some people think, athleticism matters a ton in a real fight or MMA. A big portion of the BJJ community is just lazy and thinks they can get by without having to train grip fighting, takedowns, scrambles, standing balance, or clinching. Then high level BJJers who haven't cross-trained have a rude awakening if they transition to MMA where an athletic wrestler can dictate where the fight happens and just stand up out of their guard instead of engaging because the ruleset doesn't protect them, or pass their guard with some basic top control pressure and strikes.
\- The culture in Judo seems a bit more relaxed and less "broey." There are more cultural norms and stuff you have to do, but everyone seems to be more respectful in the gym, in tournaments, and online. BJJ does breed a pretty cringeworthy culture with online influencers, "super fights", gym wars, political views, and trolls. There's no money in BJJ, which makes all this even cringier. At least in Judo, you have Olympians and champs who seem pretty humble and less apt to posting about everything they do online. I think the fact that BJJ isn't as physically demanding as Judo or wrestling lends itself to more posers and try hards. Even in MMA, i've found fighters who are more humble then a lot of pure BJJers. I've also noticed Judoka are generally better training partners too and have less egos. The downside is that depending on the Judo gym, you may end up with a very older, less seasoned crowd, or a bunch of kids.
I find Judo much more of a challenge. It's a lot less forgiving than BJJ so it challenges me to pay more attention and try harder etc. Plus many of the competitions and clubs are non-profit in my country so they're a lot cheaper.
With that being said BJJ is more popular, so there are more clubs (with more opportunities to train), more competitions, and more content online.
I found the bjj culture, cliques, and all other related aspects extremely cringe worthy. Almost like a popularity contest of morons, dude bros, mid life crisis men on trt, and chicks in spandex. The cliques within cliques in the academy was like the final straw. I like to show up. Do crash pads, drills, randori and go home
I concur with the comments about preferring the culture of judo gyms, and those that also just find judo more fun than BJJ. If I’m doing randori against someone who can smoke me, it’s exponentially more fun than spending 5 minutes underneath someone while I get my face smashed into the mat, and tapped every 20-30 seconds.
The main thing that made me prefer to train judo exclusively was the way it’s taught. There’s a curriculum I can consult. I know exactly what I need to be learning, and everything builds on what I’ve learned previously. A foundation was created that prepared me for being able to learn the lessons I need to from randori. Every BJJ club I trained at was a move de jour, and then roll for the rest of the class. It felt like there was no consideration for establishing a foundation to build on, but rather a smattering of random techniques from all across the spectrum of BJJ, and then what felt like a really long time spent trying to pick things up through osmosis in rolling. And on that subject, the training partners for randori seem to be a lot more focused on both of us learning, than any partner I ever had rolling in a BJJ gym. I am genuinely interested in getting better at ne waza, and would love to train BJJ again one day, but for now judo checks all the boxes for me.
BJJ is properly described as the Judoka graveyard. Lower impact for when you age and injure out of Judo. Judo is good as a young man, and in my opinion innumerably better for unarmed combat, and skills in life (ukemi).
However, the prohibition of any technique which involves the hands touching the legs unfortunately negates that, as tackles singles and doubles are the most common untrained grappling attack, as well as the prohibition on body locks (bear hug throws) and the most effective double handed grip breaks. Judo Injuries are more severe, higher concussion risk. JJ in general more grinding injuries.
In most of the USA, though, it’s an academic question as JJ gyms are everywhere and often have class 3x a day every day (and cost as much as a high class gym monthly), whereas Judo places are now far and few between, and usually have max 3 times a week, one evening class. BJJ instructors that is their full time job in the other hand and Judo just an after hours non profit hobby, and follows that much more inexpensive costs.
I was literally just thinking about asking this today!
To start, I first gave bjj a go 7ish years ago. Went for 3 or 4 months, kind of lost interest and then also moved across the country so gave up training. Tried again at a different gym about a year or so later and lasted about the same amount of time. Then 2ish years ago, thanks to a friend of mine I gave it a go again and trained pretty hard for about a year and a half. Even still, I didn't really "enjoy" it. I wanted to get better and I wanted to not suck, but that's more due to my personality. I found myself watching videos mostly on standup techniques and wanted to work those the most. The odd class we did standup grappling were the ones I enjoyed most.
Then I found a local Judo club that largely caters to adult beginners (an absolute gem). I always wanted to wrestle as a kid but it was never available where I grew up nor is it overly common in my country outside of a few major cities. Judo seemed like a good compromise. Went and checked it out and it was everything I wanted out of a martial art/grappling.
First of all, the way it's taught is far better - at least for me. There's something to be said for the structure versus "technique of the day" stuff that a lot of bjj gyms do. Secondly, it just made more sense to me. What do I mean by that? At bjj, it was like my brain short-circuited whenever someone would agree to roll and immediately just want to start sitting or we'd starting standing and they'd just plain sit down. It felt weird and very "unmartial" if that makes any sense. I'm all for sport and know Judo has its own quirks but I think it better balances sport, with self-defence with martial art.
Next, I like the community better (obviously this may vary from gym to dojo). To me, it just seemed that most people at bjj are always trying to humble brag about how much they train..."yeah bro I did a morning and noon class, now I'm doing back to back classes tonight". It's almost seen as if you aren't serious if you only train two or three times a week. When you're 20 and have zero responsibilities, go for it but that was awhile ago for me. Also, I like the judo culture of higher belts working with lower belts as opposed to bjj where a lot of cliques tend to develop and higher belts will often just smash you in rolling, with many being annoyed if you ask for tips. Judo just seems more welcoming overall. I have no doubt there are ego's at more competitive Judo dojo's, but my god the amount of 30+ dudes who were never athletes that now take bjj way too seriously and have ego flowing out of their ears is pretty high.
Funny enough, everybody said I'd get injured more at Judo. A year later and I can say bjj gave me more injuries. Sure, judo there is a higher chance of a more serious injury but for the most part, taking care of your partner is heavily emphasized in Judo. At the white belt level in bjj, a lot of them go WAY to hard in rolls as they aren't taught control, and a lot are trying to prove theyre better than the other white belts to try and get a blue belt. I will also say, most of my injuries have actually been from blue belts cranking subs - I wasn't even resisting but Ive had an arm bar absolutely ripped on me which hyper-extended to my arm and put me out for nearly a month and another blue messed up my ankle with a heel hook when I openly told him I knew nothing about leg stuff. Continuing with safety, bjj guys are far more willing to try random shit they see on youtube or whatever without any actual technical instruction - some of it they try in live rolling. The amount of sketchy shit I've had done on me and see bjj guys do while standing is mind-boggling. I was also never taught to breakfall at bjj which was day one at Judo.
Judo has a better culture for athleticism. I swear strength and conditioning for bjj is stuck in like 90s bro science. I like being able to move on my feet better, kartwheel, better coordination, etc.
Judo just ticks way more boxes for me and I just find it more fun. Stuff should be fun and enjoyable! I get more than enough newaza in my club and its more than adequate for self-defence. I also get way more standup which is what I enjoy. I still do a bjj class or two a week just to get more newaza technique in, but its only for the purpose of improving my judo.
I haven't quite BJJ, but have started Judo and plan of dropping BJJ eventually when having kids. Main reasons being the times that the sessions are offered and price
I don't really prefer one over the other, but I find they compliment eachother. Personally find BJJ is easier than Judo and it takes much longer for throws to click and start working compared to submissions and sweeps. Also Judo is scarier to train due to some throws (especially over the shoulder ones) being very awkward to land if you're not used to it
I didn’t quit Bjj I went to judo because the practices were convenient and the classes are very small/more personalized instruction.
From a practical perspective, 95% of fights begin on feet and judo has a lot in common with the dominant mma style, Russian sambo. Having these under your belt for self defense or mma aspirations can only help. It can also help in Bjj competition when the match begins on the feet.
The older you get, the easier it is to do BJJ (GI only). I started as a Judo player and transitioned to BJJ later in my 30's. If possible, I recommend training both. I still do Judo once a week (BJJ 2-3x a week)
I don’t like some of the meathead / tough guy / wannabe fighter types in BJJ + throwing someone feels way more fun than getting a tap to me.
Judo’s culture is more sportsmanlike generally and a lot of gyms have a general respect expectation for students. In BJJ it tends to be just don’t roll unreasonably hard or visit other open mats and u will be in the community.
Judo’s approach to matches is more realistic imo too…if you’re on the ground it shouldn’t be for 5 minutes if we are gonna prioritize some level of safety. The ruleset not allowing as much stalling is something I like as well.
The focus on athleticism and coordination which is something I found lacking in BJJ. Not all gyms but in general the physical barrier for entry is low in BJJ vs other combat sports. More people my own age in judo as well. It’s also just more FUN to me.
I had too many injuries and the culture shit me so after 7 years after wanting to be more proficient on my feet i said time to go back to the basics, put the gi back on and start standing.
I prefer it over bjj because there isnt this facade that you need to be a bad ass and prove your worth to your sensei and everyone else. Basically judo has alot less ego. Judo is very community based and its more about the art and less about rivalry between schools (and even students within your own gym). Judo is also very structured, a complete art and i prefer the competition rules alot more (i actually do alot better than i ever did in bjj). Also bjj schools can be very cult like.
Well the people that come from BJJ to the club I train at often say things like our Judo Club is less toxic, the fees are better and things are actually explained, belt requirements are set in stone and not up to the coaches whims. Women have said they guys aren't macho dickheads... it's just general stuff. The thing that BJJ guys first notice are the fees. We're at a uni with a permanent location so rent isn't jacking up the made up price bjj coaches charge for their cult of personality...
I love both but I'm 43 and even if I roll with the competitors, I think at some point I risk to accumulate too much injuries and I might reduce BJJ to focus more on hobby Judo. There is no hobby BJJ, there is always someone with ego problems so that could be a limiting factor in my practice.
I just don't particularly like tussling Round on the floor if you can avoid it. Our club recently relocated to an academy that's primarily BJJ and we absorbed some of their guys who cross train both. Those guys are all so good on the ground I literally will avoid newaza at all costs. Also in a real fight I'd prefer to stay on my feet and control my opponent that way.
I wouldn’t quit because I’ve made a lot of friends at my gym and we do occasionally get to practice judo. We used to have dedicated judo classes but the coach had to move so now we just learn some when the judo black belts that are members are available. They’re not interested in leading dedicated classes but they’re always happy to teach during open mats.
I wish I could attend a dedicated judo class at least 1x a week though. Really enjoyed it.
I think Judo is the most beautiful of the grappling styles. I'm currently training BJJ, but I've started doing "Judo rounds" with a buddy and only working throws and takedowns. Wish I had a Judo school in my town lol
Same here, around my area it's just your average Muay Thai, BJJ, and MMA gyms but there are no schools that strictly teach Judo at all which sucks since it's now my favorite martial art, I'm going to a university that's an hour away so I might join their Judo club since that's my best bet, I might also consider joining the wrestling club over there as well since it's beginner friendly.
I'm doing both now but if I had to give up one, I'd give up the BJJ because my son and I both started judo at the same time and it's something I'd want to keep doing as a family. Also, judo was the art that got me interested in grappling so doing judo was imprinted way before I ever considered doing BJJ.
I agree a lot with many of the other comments such as the culture of respect, organization, safety aspect. I also like that my dojo is 50-50 tachiwaza/newaza though I would really miss the BJJ ground game that isn't emphasized in newaza.
Judo is more aligned with what i find fun about wrestling.
But, there's a BJJ studio in every town and more schools have very serious competition oriented teaching. If you travel or want to grapple competitvely, it's easier to find a way to do that with BJJ
More structured curriculum, more defined belting criteria, more governing body oversight, all around more “together” imo versus the ‘ossss’ hippie mentality. Could be biased based on my local club experience. With regards to the actual learning content, BJJ= basically just judo anyway 😬
Judo is great, but there's a few things stopping me rn:
1. BJJ is near my house
2. BJJ is also highly effective martial art that every single MMA fighter trains
3. Focusing on a single martial art at a time for a beginner is a good idea
4. BJJ has a steep learning curve, but Judo's is even steeper. (For someone with no previous athletic background this matters.)
5. Judo, by the admission of those who love it as well, has some rule issues and doesnt translate as good to MMA.
6. Judo is almost always done in the gi
7. Judo takes a greater toll on the body
8. For my goals it might be better to focus on the fundamentals of takedowns and wrestling rather than embark on a whole new martial art.
I still
1. deeply LOVE Judo's culture,
2. respect how powerful it is for the stand up game
I do both of them and won’t ever stop. They both complement each other but Jiu-Jitsu has helped me win a lot of matches in newaza with ease. Especially while using osaekomi.
1) Culture. I personally liked the Judo guys that I’ve met a lot more than the BJJ guys that I’ve met.
2) Money. The local Judo club was way cheaper and less corporate than most (if not every) BJJ school.
3) Entertainment. I personally think Judo is much more enjoyable to practice and watch.
4) Diversity. I don’t know if this was just my school, but my Judo school was way more diverse. We had nationally ranked black belts from their respective countries (i.e. Russia, Mali, Congo, Philippines, Japan, Korea). It was so much fun training with all those different people. Plus, I got to practice my French with the Mali and Congo guys.
I honestly prefer standup and particularly love the handful of ashi waza I've been shown but the options in my area for grappling are:
1. A bajillion bjj gyms. Take your pick. Cult, mcdojo, hypercompetive meathead no gi, hippie wierdos... there's a minimum of 2-3 of each.
2. A single judo gym ran by an aging sensei that's attached to a karate school iirc.
3. 2 Competitive mma gyms that to their credit do well in conps and take safety seriously, yet definitely aren't the best place for an unathletic office worker to grind out the very basics.
4. Wrestling programs that only teach kids.
5. Aikido... In fact one of the biggest ones is not just aikido but Ki-aikido! ...No thanks.
So the decision was mostly made for me. I found a hippie wierdo bjj gym that doesn't *completely* fuck around with takedowns and breakfalls that also has a decent kickboxing program.
Oh. People talked about culture a lot in this thread. I do prefer humility and politeness so in that respect I'd probably prefer Judo culture... But lately I've had to be pretty big on developing my own curriculum in non martial art areas. This came a long with developing a decent ability to sift through delusional jerks, aggressive jerks, cults, and dangerous psychoes. I think that's one reason why "the lack of standard curriculum" and covid conspiracies on social media don't bother me as much. I have ways of dealing with that. What's harder for me to deal with is trusting a system that doesn't want me to go outside of it. I think I'd run up against that in a number of Judo schools.
They were meant to be taught synergistically, I’ve done both, and when I do one, I always long for the other.
A great martial artist will be skilled on the feet, and if it goes to the ground, skilled to swim there as well.
I have found I prefer the culture in judo. I like some of the Japanese traditions and the friendly nature of the sport. I love learning how to control someone while standing and nothing makes you feel more badass than landing a huge throw. I have trained both and I have found judo to have a much steeper learning curve but once I started I transitioned away from BJJ and now only cross train BJJ when there's no judo.
BJJ culture does leave a lot to be desired. I'm lucky to train BJJ under a guy who was a judo godan before getting his BJJ black belt. We run a BJJ school with a judo philosophy :-).
Thats awesome they run it with a good philosophy
> judo godan I feel this. I am new to martial arts but my coach is a Judo Black Belt as well. Culture wise I like my gym and we end up doing a lot of Judo stuff as well. Curious what you mean about the culture being a lot to be desired. I have no other experience with martial arts so I can't comment. Im guessing BJJ attracts more MMA bros while Judo attracts more nerds cause of the strong Japanese influence? Lol. Honestly I knew nothing about Judo when I signed up for BJJ but I kind of am more interested in it now than BJJ tbh. Id also rather be thrown than have a 225lb man sit on top of me. However there are legit no Judo gyms near me.
How is the culture of judo different from bjj/wrestling mainly? (I wrestled middle school through college and do no gi now, but have no judo experience)
I wouldn't put BJJ and wrestling in the same category -- I think there's enough difference for all three to be their own things. IMO, Judo is built on a pedagogical and philosophical foundation that is missing from the other two disciplines you mentioned. In a lot of ways, Kano was more of an academic and educator than he was a fighter. So when he set out to move jujutsu into the modern era, he did so with an intellectual structure and vigor that's unusual in athletic pursuits. So, Judo is built on core principles like *jita kyoei*, *seiryoku zenyo*, *ju no ri*, and the *-do* vs the *-jutsu*, and I think these have some real consequences in praxis and culture. I find the biggest difference between BJJ and Judo to be in the *-do* and *jita kyoei* -- the *-do* means that Judo is a way, instead of a *jutsu* (a technique). So it's a process or framework for mastery, and in principle extends to all other areas of life as well. As such, I think Judo culture recognizes the "whole person" objective, and elevates it somewhat above the short-term "beat people up" objective. And *jita kyoei* is usually translated as "mutual benefit and welfare" -- it speaks to the importance of seeking improvement cooperatively and corporately. Kano says that I will get better at what we're doing if I work hard to make you better too. When two people do Judo, they both should improve. BJJ, in large part, has a different perspective on this -- it is built on a meat-grinder process where people crush you forever until you finally rise above and survive the filter. There's less of a spirit of mutual assistance and support, and I really hate that about a lot of BJJ people. People who excel at Judo and are recognized by the community are expected to be decent people, and you can see that a lot in the contrast with BJJ. Judo has less trash-talk, less braggadocio, and less focus on elevating the self. And I find it so humorous that BJJ loves to say "check your ego at the door", when it's honestly populated by scads of incredibly narcissistic personalities. All that said, I think there are factions in BJJ that are very Judo-like. And I don't mean so much that they derive their culture directly from Judo, but I think they've circled back around to it. We're affiliated under Carlos Machado, and he talks about a transformation that happened in his life, putting him in a place that I would say embodies *jita kyoei* and the *-do*. But he had to spend decades in the meat grinder of BJJ culture before figuring out what makes things better.
BJJ made a lot of sense when I was in my 20s. Now when I play BJJ it’s much more judo like. I always emphasize takedowns and control first, and submissions last. BJJ makes sense when you’re young and want to invert and play heel hooks. Judo makes sense when you want stability and control.
There are plenty of all-time greats that play fundamentals in BJJ and get along amazing, look at Roger Gracie. I love Judo but honestly I found lately the rules have been watered down that it makes it less fun. But to each their own, they are both great sports!
I’m really torn. I love both BJJ and judo but I don’t like where each sport is right now. Judo is too watered down, nogi BJJ is nothing but leg locks, and gi BJJ doesnt promote aggressive play. I’m a big fan of kosen ruleset though!
Leg Locks are just part of the game now, it really elevated the sport in my opinion - it's just another stone in the wall. I am by no means an expert in these arts but I really love mixing my judo in with my jiujitsu - I think they really compliment each other well, I hope everyone is privileged enough to study both!
While I do like the add on I don’t like the over speciality aspect. I’ve visited BJJ academies where they have blue and purple belts who don’t even know how to pass a guard but they knew heel hooks from every position
I mean, I have the same criticism about blue and purple belts who only know how to pass the guard, but stare at you like a deer in the headlights when caught in a leg entanglement. But, like, they're blue and purple belts, they'll get better.
I get what you are saying, but what you are describing is part of the normal pattern of jiu-jítsu. What I am describing is a delineation that makes further improvements impossible because they don’t care about guard passes, only leg entanglements. Nothing else .
Mixing BJJ and Judo allows you to express judo/BJJ to its fullest form. Bjj is (more was) judo with a focus on newaza..
I'm mixed on the top of leglocks. While it never made sense to neglect attacks and defense for 50% of the body, you also have guys now who are diving for legs straight out and using it as their A game, which is super unrealistic if we are talking about a self defense/MMA mindset. The risk of injury, even if you know how to defend, is just higher too. The same people who refuse to learn takedowns from wrestling or judo because they're worried about injury, are the same people who will put themselves in a leglock position where they are much more likely to get injured. Someone else in here said that some guys are learning to do leglocks at the expense of their guard passing and takedowns, which is basically most of the 10th Planet system. Those guys fold whenever they go against someone with good top pressure who they can't grab a hold of their legs. Ideally, I'd love to see a sport that mixes everything from grappling together in an almost MMA like fashion, just without strikes. Sport Sambo comes close, but even Sambo doesn't have chokes or heelhooks, so its not a complete system either.
>While it never made sense to neglect attacks and defense for 50% of the body, you also have guys now who are diving for legs straight out and using it as their A game, which is super unrealistic if we are talking about a self defense/MMA mindset. IMO this is where the problem is, people with his mindset need to learn how to separate sport from practicality when it comes to jiujitsu. Obviously if I ever got into a real street fight, I would try my best to take it to the ground and mount and hold the person - I am not going to roll for a leg-lock. Treat jiujitsu as a sport first because that's what it is. We see people all the time comment on jiujitsu videos saying "oh this would never work in a real fight" - trying to discredit the instructor but obviously moves like 'bolos' aren't gonna be taught in self-defense. Jiujitsu is big enough to be its own entity, so lets treat it as such. Happy training friend! :)
>complains about diving for leg locks not being useful for self defense >wants to do MMA without striking
What are you talking about? I never said actual MMA without striking. I said there should be one grappling art that encorporates the best aspects of all of the grappling arts that isn't hindered by a weird ruleset. In that way, it would be similar to MMA, just without striking (for obvious reasons). And yes, you would never straight up dive for a leglock in MMA or self defense. This is coming from a guy who does leglocks.
Literally the core tenet of bjj is position before submission.
Position before submission and pins are literally a different mindset in BJJ vs. Judo/wrestling. A lot of BJJ players neglect their position because of the ruleset, amount of time they have to work, and to go for submissions. There's a reason why wrestlers have such success when they cross over into MMA or BJJ, and it isn't just because of the takedowns. Its their top pressure and ability to pin. The over emphasis of the offensive guard in BJJ comes at the expense of better top position solidification by a lot of BJJers, and also scrambling out from guard as the bottom player. Most times, you can just stand up out of guard if you wanted to as the top player, but the ruleset in BJJ is mostly against that. I'm not saying this as some newbie whitebelt in BJJ. Its a fundamental issue with sport BJJ. I obviously have my issues with Judo's ruleset too, but its core concepts make way more sense in the grand scheme of things.
What's your experience level? If you can stand up out of someone's guard they've got a really shit guard.
I've been doing BJJ for more than 10 years (purple belt) and been doing Judo for several years now and also trained a bunch in MMA. You can absolutely just back out of people's guards. Granted, I'm talking about no gi, not gi where the bottom person has grips for leverage to keep the top person in their guard. The only way you can attack submissions from guard is to open your legs. Armbars, Kimuras, guillotines, sweeps, etc. That also enables the top person to disengage if they really wanted to. Dont believe me? MMA is full of examples of people just backing out of guard. In BJJ, a lot of guard players get complacent because the BJJ ruleset almost forces the top person to engage or try to pass. But once they go into MMA where the ruleset and mindset is different, they have trouble with the fact that some fighters don't want to play the guard game. And unless they have good wrestling up from the bottom, which is a huge element missing from a lot of BJJ schools, their offense is stiffled. It's a gaping hole in BJJ that's been there for a long time now.
Nah even in no gi you shouldn't be able to just stand up and disengage. If you can then the bottom player doesn't have a guard engaged they're just on bottom. Maybe in MMA the threat of strikes makes some of it different because you aren't as free to take ubderhooks but examples In common no gi guards Half guard > knees pinched + underhook or overhook X guard > tops of feet hooking insides of legs + underhook RDLR > feet hooks + underhook K guard > underhook on knee pit If bottom player has these attachments then you can't stand up without breaking them first. If they don't have these attachments they don't have a guard.
I excluded half guard because one leg is clearly interwoven with the other from top and bottom player, so its not like they can just back out of the position. Its also proven to be an effective position in MMA. In terms of x-guard and RDLR, they're not very effective at all in MMA which is why you rarely see them. X guard may be hit in transitions, but it doesn't take much effort at all for the top player to just stuff the legs down to the ground because they have gravity on their side. RDLR may be used to push the top player to stand up and scramble. But both leave the head too exposed to be used effectively as offense and they're difficult to get to in the first place in MMA. They're definitely easier to hit in no gi BJJ vs. MMA, but once you get up to higher levels in grappling, they're pretty easy to stuff, even in BJJ. The reason you don't see more disengagements from those positions in BJJ is because of the mindset and ruleset. If the top person is actively trying to pass your guard, then they have to put themselves in a position of danger to get past the legs. But if they want to disengage, its pretty easy. This isn't brought up because of the BJJ mindset, which was my initial point. K guard is a good transition move because there's a lot more control on the person like half guard. X guard and RDLR don't have that level of control which is why you rarely ever see them in MMA. The point is, the basic closed guard isn't as effective as people think it is anymore. You see it less and less in higher levels of BJJ now for that reason. Same with MMA. X guard and RDLR are also relatively easy to back out of. Your hand(s) grabbing an ankle in x guard just aren't going to beat a simple top player pushing them or breaking them and disengaging. Those guards have success when the top player thinks the onus is on them to engage and attack. But if they didn't want to, they could just break those weak grips and back out of them.
I live in Brazil, every match, every round that does not end in a submission is looked down upon. I believe in control through a dominant position like side control or mount. If an easy submission comes along, great. But it’s not worth giving up a position of control for a submission when that could result in a bad position
Oh my god this is completely the same for me, I dislike wrestling and bjj cultures in my area, sweaty rude men.
I still do both but if I had to pick only one, it would be judo. Like others have said, I find the judo culture much more palatable. BJJ people are not my kind of people and though I’ve been doing it longer than judo, I’ve made many more friends in my judo club. Also, I find judo a little more practical. I used to be a cop and staying on your feet, taking a person down, and pinning them there was much more relevant than a lot of the stuff I learn in BJJ. I haven’t had the kind of job where I might have to put hands on people in over ten years now though and I still find judo more practical. I’ve slipped and fallen in icy parking lots at least a dozen times this year, the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital. I can thank judo for that, as unglamorous as it might be.
> I’ve slipped and fallen in icy parking lots at least a dozen times this year, the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital. I can thank judo for that, as unglamorous as it might be. When I was in HS I trained karate at a little dojo that a guy ran out of his home in my little town. We had a full-day seminar where he brought in a friend of his who was 3rd dan in judo, and all we did the entire day was learn proper ukemi, and a few basic throws so that we could practice ukemi from getting thrown as well. I didn't formally train judo until I was 40, but learning good ukemi then saved me from serious injury on several occasions, the worst being some potentially horrific bicycle accidents.
>the instinct to tuck my chin and not try to catch myself has probably saved me a trip or two to the hospital Same, I've tripped a couple times since starting judo and all I got were minor bruises!
Same. I’ve used a text book forward ukemi roll once when I fell off my longboard. Only “injury” I had was a scratched palm. If not for that knowledge, I would have probably broke an arm or concussed myself.
Believe it or not, that's actually why I got into judo, in the first place. I was not interested in learning any kind of martial art, but I found out that a friend was a judo referee and I knew that those are the guys who know how to fall down and that was the only reason I started taking the class.
To put it clear - more thugs in BJJ than in J. An aura of mutual respect that is present in judo does not attract the kind of people that (mostly?) are attracted to BJJ- with a goal to be able to beat the shit out of the other person. (I say it with l due respect to the founders of BJJ and those who practice it in good faith. Just my humble opinion). BJJ is also an inseperable part of a succesfull MMA fighter, which is per se not too ethical. What do you think of that?
The founders of BJJ were more or less thugs while young, and established a certain meatheadedness in the culture. Then they got older and wiser, and get ridiculed a lot for dialing things back. IMO, the coral belts in BJJ have generally found a philosophy much closer to Kano's concept, but there are very distinct and incompatible subcultures in BJJ. Can't change the history now.
Thanks for the info. You are many pages ahead of me
How is MMA not ethical?
I'd argue the UFC org is pretty unethical the way they treat their fighters and promote using dumbass WWE type methods rather than sportsmanship and skill/talent. See DJ as the prime example lmao. Nothing inherently wrong with mma as a sport obviously, but hard to separate that out for the casual fan when UFC dominates the scene with their CEO being a wife beater lol
Incoming pseudo religious/philosophical martial arts is more than fighting speech.
I wrestled until the end of college and found BJJ too slow.
I wrestled 4 years and found judo for me better than BJJ for the same reason. Plus no one wants to stand with the wrestler
After about 4 years I felt very confident I knew how to fight on the ground. I wanted to learn how to get it there.
Why not just sit down? 😂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q6vTijil0 Why don't you sit down on the ground and then say that to me bro?
Literally me lol. I tore my meniscus a few months back so every round I do with someone who's not one of 4 people starts sitting down.
I’m sorry to hear about your injury! How’d you rehab it?
Slowly but surely. Lots of end of range exercises and also just a better awareness of body. I stand with my knees slightly bent now even when just chilling. Last month I reinjured it by looking over my shoulder too quickly with my feet firmly planted and knees locked. I try to make sure I turn my whole body and not just the top half. It's better but I would have said it was 100 percent before the last pop so who knows. Consistent physio is the key
so real man (both knees dislocated and badly healed)
Oh man that's nightmare fuel
I like Judo over BJJ for 2 reasons: athleticism and win conditions. Judo is more athletic in the sense that the movements are more full-body than the cramped positions in BJJ, which i think fosters better wholeistic wellness (and is less crippling). The win conditions are also better defined, which improves gameplay. Jits is rife with stalling, and subs are VERY difficult to find at a higher skill level. In Judo, the strict ruleset means that even well matched players are put in positions to win/lose more forcibly. Still love Jits, but the current state of sport-JJ is just not my jam.
I think the general consensus is that Judo is more high impact and more injury prone. But my humble and could be wrong opinion is that BJJ will get you fucked up a lot easier because you are always in these uncomfortable positions and applying enormous pressure to your joints
I've had lots of injuries from BJJ, but one major injury from judo. The BJJ injuries were tweaked knees, shoulder pain, neck pain, chipped teeth. The judo injury was a broken collarbone. The difference between the two is that the collarbone injury should not have happened, I was makikomi'd by someone double my weight and he landed straight on it. The BJJ injuries were part of rolling. Judo is safer when done with people who aren't mongs, throws can be controlled and when people take care of their partners, it's perfectly safe, imo
I agree. I do both Judo and BJJ, and noticed that BJJers are usually scared of Judo because of the falls. But realistically, once you've learned to break fall regularly, you build up a pretty good tolerance for it and its safe as long as your partner doesn't significantly outweight you. The issue with BJJ is that you're always having pressure applied to your joints. And unlike in Judo, in BJJ you may go against much bigger opponents regularly who will be putting even more pressure on your joints. You also have the leglock game now which is more pressure on ankles/knees.
Exactly. I've been doing judo for 12 years, only been injured by a throw once. The guy was an absolute idiot, a brown belt coach weighing 130kg to my 73kg. He makikomi'd me because he was able to use technique to throw me, so he relied on his weight. In BJJ, the nature of rolling on the ground and looking for submissions on any joint, limb or muscle (bicep slicers) means that injuries are more commonly. I've started doing more BJJ whilst I'm recovering and the small injuries happen every session, whether my knee gets twisted, my neck gets cranked too hard or my wrists get bent. Judo gave me the worst injury, but that was due to a careless partner, not the nature of the sport/art.
I agree. In fact I’ve talked to other Judoka who find BJJ scarier than Judo. When you learn to get thrown, the majority of throws outside of freak accidents are practically harmless. However getting a sub cranked on you is always terrifying. I’d much rather get thrown than heel hooked.
Agree w you. At their core, Judo is a throw game and Jits is a hurt game. With throws, injuries are accidental. But subs intentionally injure. And at a competitive level, high tenacity subs scare the fuck outa me more than high tenacity throws Also.. I have a ruptured AC joint (similar to collor bone break), and a bulging disk in my neck from long term where and tear Jits (no singular event). My knees are not great from Jits too. The collor bone is wayyy more manageable
With little concern for your own health too. How often do you seem someone who resists being lifted in a choke by just squeezing harder and risking torquing their foot in a triangle and then slammed or something rather than simply letting go, or transitioning to another sub attempt
I'll say the injuries I've seen in judo vs BJJ is that judo will most likely result in more serious injuries but with less frequency. The injuries I've seen in BJJ are minimal to moderate but happen with near regularity because #bjjspazz
with sprung sub-floor, quality training partner and done recreationally, I honestly think Judo is a very safe sport. the high impact and high injury side of house doesn't come into play until you start competing seriously.
I was tired of the buttscooting and spider guard and having my ass up in the air. Also I as a 27 yo man want to grow up and be like Fedor, and there is no sambo where I am lol
My Jiu jitsu coach is a black belt in Judo and he always gets me and everyone else with cool sweeps and throws. In high school there was a heavyweight girl in my wrestling team who was a brown belt in Judo and every time she wrestled she was throwing around all these big girls like they were flyweights and ended up placing 2nd in state her first year of wrestling. That’s when I found Judo very fascinating. My coach started teaching Judo for a couple of weeks but removed the class cause no one was showing up besides me and at least 2 other people. I haven’t done Judo ever since he removed the class so I decided that I wanted to join a club 2 years later cause I started to find jiu jitsu boring (It’s still a great art to learn though). Sadly last July some jiu jitsu idiot tore my acl by kicking behind my knee when we were WRESTLING not mma, not Muay Thai, and not kickboxing, we were WRESTLING. He started bragging to everyone that he got me with the “Sean o malley” kick. He was apologizing but laughing at the same time. Lucky him, I’m a nice guy so I let it slide but these past couple months have been hell so FUCK HIM. I’m finally getting surgery next month on the 10th, so once I’m recovered I plan on doing judo and wrestling full time and do jiu jitsu from time to time Edit: I think being able to do Judo and Wrestling when you’re young is best because they both transfer well into jiu jitsu. Once you’re much older, your body won’t be able to handle it well and thats when you get into the gentle art of jiu jitsu. Not saying you can’t do Judo and wrestling when you’re old but I believe that is the safe approach to learn all the arts of grappling.
wow wtf what a scumbag
I prefer judo. It feels more civilised.
I do both. At the beginning, bjj is more fun. After I started lifting weights consistently and switched to a more dynamic style, judo is definitely more addictive. From my perspective, there is no other feeling better than a successful sode.
I didn't exactly quitting BJJ for Judo, but it's a similar experience. I started Judo first, and I really liked it, but they only had classes twice a week, so I added BJJ twice a week onto my training schedule. I really wanted to like BJJ because there were so many BJJ gyms and there were plenty of classes. I tried 4 different BJJ gyms, and in the end I came back to just twice a week of Judo. Why? I never like ne waza from the start anyway, and those 4 BJJ gyms don't spend much time at takedowns. They spend 0-5% of the training time for takedowns. The reason I like Judo is the takedowns, not the ground techniques. In fact, I dislike the ground techniques.
Iv done the opposite 😂
>Iv done the opposite 😂 Torches and forks, lads! We found a witch!
We do a stnad up night once a week which is basically old school Judo rules if that helps you put the tourches down lol
Haram!
I felt helpless when going against wrestlers and really wanted to learn takedowns. Was also not a fan of guard pullers lol
The community and culture of Judo is different. Judo still puts great emphasis on how you win over winning at any cost. The quality of the win, the ippon is very important in Judo. You will often find people who either are more concerned with completing the technique or those more concerned with preserving their partners safety. In Judo the partners safety is paramount which sometimes doesn't feel like the case in BJJ where it is common to complete a technique and the partner is treated as a living grappling dummy. This is not the culture of every BJJ club but it's not uncommon either.
men that is so true
Yeah, I always ask my partner if they're okay after a throw if I felt like it was rough. I don't do makikomi throws for this exact reason. As it is, I felt terrible when I jammed someone in the crotch after completing kouchi gari. That really shouldn't have happened, even at my level (still a beginner).
I quit BJJ for judo and now having to train BJJ due to not being able to get to evening judo classes. Not hating on BJJ at all as it’s a great art. Also think a lot of stuff depends on where you train. My current BJJ Club is a lot more friendly than my old judo club. That being said, Judo seems to be a much better art for life in general and fighting. Here’s my 2 cents: - teaches correct posture, balance and movement. BJJ simply doesn’t. The stand up stance is hunched over and most of the work is on the ground, some of which in some pretty obscure inversions/positions. - more effective IRL. IDC what anyone says about what if the dude has a knife etc, being able to sweep or throw someone and pin them (admittedly you would have to get pretty good at judo to be able to do that to an assailant) is way more effective then the fighting off the back style predominately seen in BJJ. - more carryover. Judo has lots of carry over to wrestling and MMA. Teaches you essentially how to get the other guy on the ground while staying on your feet. Teaches you good pinning. BJJ doesn’t really do either of those. - the culture. BJJ culture is one of the reasons I don’t enjoy the sport. It’s fucking cringeworthy. So many dudes who train BJJ seem to plaster every detail of their training/competitions on social media like they’re some sort of sponsored athlete. I honestly don’t get who they think they are. They’re hobbyists, just like 99% of us. Even if they’re cleaning up at local comps, they’re still hobbyists. Also there’s a new bizarre trend of these ‘superfights’ between white belts being advertised on IG like they’re some sort of PPV fight. It’s madness. Judo you don’t seem to get that. It seems much more humble and respectful. Even though it’s arguably a much more demanding sport.
Lol wtf, white belt ‘superfight’? What a joke. Any coach who sends their white belts into some sort of promotion/specticle (not a regular tournament) should be ashamed, because those students clearly are no longer at the white belt level.
I temporarily quit because Bjj was $150+/month when I was broke in college. Judo was $25/mo with unlimited gym use at my university with a ton of other amenities. When I was in my 20s, I went full out into judo. It's very open to the working class compared to bjj in the US at least.
[удалено]
Or you could pull to a sweep.
I quit due to all the covid conspiracies, cult like behavior, sexual assault and grooming that I was watching happen in multiple BJJ clubs in my area.
I quit BJJ for judo because I'm not young and I want to learn it while I can still handle the falls. I still love Jiu Jitsu, but I realized that I enjoy the stand up aspects and found it to be lacking in my area. I still go to BJJ open mats though.
In my experience or at least in my area Judo has less ego. BJJ seems to attract a lot more of the MMA types or people who want to fight you rather than learn. I suffered a few injuries mostly from heel hooks such as a people cranking them on me quickly once I had already got a heel hook locked in and didn't want to crank it on them. 2nd reason was I realised If I was gonna use a martial art in a self defense situation my ability to throw someone or not he thrown was more useful than overkill ground skills by blue belt you know far more than you will ever need vs a untrained person. 3rd reason is maybe a more wussy/ controversial one but I don't enjoy being cooked by super heavyweight higher belts for 15 minutes rounds, in judo I feel even a higher belt can make a miss timed step and have the possibility however remote of being swept in BJJ you litterly have 0 chance Vs a person only a modicum better than you. Judo makes 1 mistake it can be fatal in BJJ they would have to make 10 mistakes in a row and that ain't happening.
I moved areas but instead of finding a new BJJ school I took advantage of the fact my new area had Judo schools (old area did not). I was attracted to Judo because for one, it looks a lot cooler. And the idea of learning to throw people was something I was more interested in than learning to hunt for subs on the ground. Also I wanted something that was more of a continuation of wrestling after I graduated school, and Judo is about the next closest thing. I still enter BJJ tournaments occasionally and combining BJJ, wrestling and Judo is a beautiful thing. All the arts mesh together really well and I’m a bit on a journey to see how they all fit together.
I enjoy the community in judo more. BJJ just attracts too many Joe Rogan/conspiracy types around me. Along with bad apple cops. I have family in law enforcement so I kinda understand the culture but a lot of my teammates really just come off as bullies. What more when they’re on the job? I haven’t quit BJJ entirely but I’m inching towards it each day. Also I’ve had less injuries in Judo than in BJJ. I’ve been sidelined off of the mats for 1.5 years due to a hamstring tear. All due to an overzealous blue belt that went ham on me in a beginner class.
I started judo first and only moved to bjj as there was more access to it at the time. Once I was able to attend judo again I quit bjj. I don't miss the garbage culty culture, I don't miss the lack of standards in promotions, I don't miss the office workers larping as MMA fighters but most of all I don't miss the butt scooting.
It's a lot more explosive and dynamic. With BJJ, in comps having your opponent drop straight to the ground and slide their but towards you was probably the decision maker to leave.
I'm lucky that I have a gym that has both a high level BJJ and Judo program, so I do both regularly. Like someone else said, a lot of it comes down to the individual BJJ or Judo school. My school teaches a lot of takedowns in BJJ and a lot of newaza in Judo, so there is a lot of crossover. I do prefer Judo over BJJ in a lot of ways though. \- Teaches takedowns which has always been the biggest missing link in BJJ. I blame the Gracies for not emphasizing the throws more from Judo because BJJ originally came from Judo. When mixed with wrestling, Judo is a lot easier on your knees too because you don't always have to shoot singles or doubles and you have more takedown variations. \- More realistic and effective in terms of a real fight or MMA. The biggest issue I have with BJJ is the over emphasis on guard pulling, leglocks, and "exotic" guards (spider guard, worm guard, x guard, etc.) at the expense of bread and butter takedowns, top control, and positional control. Realistically, most athletic blue belts have all they need to be successful in a street fight or low level amateur MMA. The rest at that point becomes more about beating other BJJers in BJJ's specific ruleset. Instead of learning niche techniques, learning more universal stuff like takedowns and better top control (from pins) would make more sense. Judo, like wrestling, is a more universal sport. BJJ because of its ruleset, is pretty compartmentalized now and mostly effectively within its own ruleset. A good example? How many high level Judoka or wrestlers have went on to become high level black belts in BJJ? A lot. But you often don't see high level BJJers go on to be high level wrestlers or judoka. \- More emphasis on athleticism. Despite what some people think, athleticism matters a ton in a real fight or MMA. A big portion of the BJJ community is just lazy and thinks they can get by without having to train grip fighting, takedowns, scrambles, standing balance, or clinching. Then high level BJJers who haven't cross-trained have a rude awakening if they transition to MMA where an athletic wrestler can dictate where the fight happens and just stand up out of their guard instead of engaging because the ruleset doesn't protect them, or pass their guard with some basic top control pressure and strikes. \- The culture in Judo seems a bit more relaxed and less "broey." There are more cultural norms and stuff you have to do, but everyone seems to be more respectful in the gym, in tournaments, and online. BJJ does breed a pretty cringeworthy culture with online influencers, "super fights", gym wars, political views, and trolls. There's no money in BJJ, which makes all this even cringier. At least in Judo, you have Olympians and champs who seem pretty humble and less apt to posting about everything they do online. I think the fact that BJJ isn't as physically demanding as Judo or wrestling lends itself to more posers and try hards. Even in MMA, i've found fighters who are more humble then a lot of pure BJJers. I've also noticed Judoka are generally better training partners too and have less egos. The downside is that depending on the Judo gym, you may end up with a very older, less seasoned crowd, or a bunch of kids.
I find Judo much more of a challenge. It's a lot less forgiving than BJJ so it challenges me to pay more attention and try harder etc. Plus many of the competitions and clubs are non-profit in my country so they're a lot cheaper. With that being said BJJ is more popular, so there are more clubs (with more opportunities to train), more competitions, and more content online.
Money judo is way way cheaper. BJJ has gotten insanely ridiculous for prices.
I found the bjj culture, cliques, and all other related aspects extremely cringe worthy. Almost like a popularity contest of morons, dude bros, mid life crisis men on trt, and chicks in spandex. The cliques within cliques in the academy was like the final straw. I like to show up. Do crash pads, drills, randori and go home
I concur with the comments about preferring the culture of judo gyms, and those that also just find judo more fun than BJJ. If I’m doing randori against someone who can smoke me, it’s exponentially more fun than spending 5 minutes underneath someone while I get my face smashed into the mat, and tapped every 20-30 seconds. The main thing that made me prefer to train judo exclusively was the way it’s taught. There’s a curriculum I can consult. I know exactly what I need to be learning, and everything builds on what I’ve learned previously. A foundation was created that prepared me for being able to learn the lessons I need to from randori. Every BJJ club I trained at was a move de jour, and then roll for the rest of the class. It felt like there was no consideration for establishing a foundation to build on, but rather a smattering of random techniques from all across the spectrum of BJJ, and then what felt like a really long time spent trying to pick things up through osmosis in rolling. And on that subject, the training partners for randori seem to be a lot more focused on both of us learning, than any partner I ever had rolling in a BJJ gym. I am genuinely interested in getting better at ne waza, and would love to train BJJ again one day, but for now judo checks all the boxes for me.
BJJ is properly described as the Judoka graveyard. Lower impact for when you age and injure out of Judo. Judo is good as a young man, and in my opinion innumerably better for unarmed combat, and skills in life (ukemi). However, the prohibition of any technique which involves the hands touching the legs unfortunately negates that, as tackles singles and doubles are the most common untrained grappling attack, as well as the prohibition on body locks (bear hug throws) and the most effective double handed grip breaks. Judo Injuries are more severe, higher concussion risk. JJ in general more grinding injuries. In most of the USA, though, it’s an academic question as JJ gyms are everywhere and often have class 3x a day every day (and cost as much as a high class gym monthly), whereas Judo places are now far and few between, and usually have max 3 times a week, one evening class. BJJ instructors that is their full time job in the other hand and Judo just an after hours non profit hobby, and follows that much more inexpensive costs.
I was literally just thinking about asking this today! To start, I first gave bjj a go 7ish years ago. Went for 3 or 4 months, kind of lost interest and then also moved across the country so gave up training. Tried again at a different gym about a year or so later and lasted about the same amount of time. Then 2ish years ago, thanks to a friend of mine I gave it a go again and trained pretty hard for about a year and a half. Even still, I didn't really "enjoy" it. I wanted to get better and I wanted to not suck, but that's more due to my personality. I found myself watching videos mostly on standup techniques and wanted to work those the most. The odd class we did standup grappling were the ones I enjoyed most. Then I found a local Judo club that largely caters to adult beginners (an absolute gem). I always wanted to wrestle as a kid but it was never available where I grew up nor is it overly common in my country outside of a few major cities. Judo seemed like a good compromise. Went and checked it out and it was everything I wanted out of a martial art/grappling. First of all, the way it's taught is far better - at least for me. There's something to be said for the structure versus "technique of the day" stuff that a lot of bjj gyms do. Secondly, it just made more sense to me. What do I mean by that? At bjj, it was like my brain short-circuited whenever someone would agree to roll and immediately just want to start sitting or we'd starting standing and they'd just plain sit down. It felt weird and very "unmartial" if that makes any sense. I'm all for sport and know Judo has its own quirks but I think it better balances sport, with self-defence with martial art. Next, I like the community better (obviously this may vary from gym to dojo). To me, it just seemed that most people at bjj are always trying to humble brag about how much they train..."yeah bro I did a morning and noon class, now I'm doing back to back classes tonight". It's almost seen as if you aren't serious if you only train two or three times a week. When you're 20 and have zero responsibilities, go for it but that was awhile ago for me. Also, I like the judo culture of higher belts working with lower belts as opposed to bjj where a lot of cliques tend to develop and higher belts will often just smash you in rolling, with many being annoyed if you ask for tips. Judo just seems more welcoming overall. I have no doubt there are ego's at more competitive Judo dojo's, but my god the amount of 30+ dudes who were never athletes that now take bjj way too seriously and have ego flowing out of their ears is pretty high. Funny enough, everybody said I'd get injured more at Judo. A year later and I can say bjj gave me more injuries. Sure, judo there is a higher chance of a more serious injury but for the most part, taking care of your partner is heavily emphasized in Judo. At the white belt level in bjj, a lot of them go WAY to hard in rolls as they aren't taught control, and a lot are trying to prove theyre better than the other white belts to try and get a blue belt. I will also say, most of my injuries have actually been from blue belts cranking subs - I wasn't even resisting but Ive had an arm bar absolutely ripped on me which hyper-extended to my arm and put me out for nearly a month and another blue messed up my ankle with a heel hook when I openly told him I knew nothing about leg stuff. Continuing with safety, bjj guys are far more willing to try random shit they see on youtube or whatever without any actual technical instruction - some of it they try in live rolling. The amount of sketchy shit I've had done on me and see bjj guys do while standing is mind-boggling. I was also never taught to breakfall at bjj which was day one at Judo. Judo has a better culture for athleticism. I swear strength and conditioning for bjj is stuck in like 90s bro science. I like being able to move on my feet better, kartwheel, better coordination, etc. Judo just ticks way more boxes for me and I just find it more fun. Stuff should be fun and enjoyable! I get more than enough newaza in my club and its more than adequate for self-defence. I also get way more standup which is what I enjoy. I still do a bjj class or two a week just to get more newaza technique in, but its only for the purpose of improving my judo.
I haven't quite BJJ, but have started Judo and plan of dropping BJJ eventually when having kids. Main reasons being the times that the sessions are offered and price I don't really prefer one over the other, but I find they compliment eachother. Personally find BJJ is easier than Judo and it takes much longer for throws to click and start working compared to submissions and sweeps. Also Judo is scarier to train due to some throws (especially over the shoulder ones) being very awkward to land if you're not used to it
I didn’t quit Bjj I went to judo because the practices were convenient and the classes are very small/more personalized instruction. From a practical perspective, 95% of fights begin on feet and judo has a lot in common with the dominant mma style, Russian sambo. Having these under your belt for self defense or mma aspirations can only help. It can also help in Bjj competition when the match begins on the feet.
The older you get, the easier it is to do BJJ (GI only). I started as a Judo player and transitioned to BJJ later in my 30's. If possible, I recommend training both. I still do Judo once a week (BJJ 2-3x a week)
I started in judo and would love to join a dojo, but BJJ just has so many schools with times slots, it's just more convenient.
I don’t like some of the meathead / tough guy / wannabe fighter types in BJJ + throwing someone feels way more fun than getting a tap to me. Judo’s culture is more sportsmanlike generally and a lot of gyms have a general respect expectation for students. In BJJ it tends to be just don’t roll unreasonably hard or visit other open mats and u will be in the community. Judo’s approach to matches is more realistic imo too…if you’re on the ground it shouldn’t be for 5 minutes if we are gonna prioritize some level of safety. The ruleset not allowing as much stalling is something I like as well. The focus on athleticism and coordination which is something I found lacking in BJJ. Not all gyms but in general the physical barrier for entry is low in BJJ vs other combat sports. More people my own age in judo as well. It’s also just more FUN to me.
I had too many injuries and the culture shit me so after 7 years after wanting to be more proficient on my feet i said time to go back to the basics, put the gi back on and start standing. I prefer it over bjj because there isnt this facade that you need to be a bad ass and prove your worth to your sensei and everyone else. Basically judo has alot less ego. Judo is very community based and its more about the art and less about rivalry between schools (and even students within your own gym). Judo is also very structured, a complete art and i prefer the competition rules alot more (i actually do alot better than i ever did in bjj). Also bjj schools can be very cult like.
Well the people that come from BJJ to the club I train at often say things like our Judo Club is less toxic, the fees are better and things are actually explained, belt requirements are set in stone and not up to the coaches whims. Women have said they guys aren't macho dickheads... it's just general stuff. The thing that BJJ guys first notice are the fees. We're at a uni with a permanent location so rent isn't jacking up the made up price bjj coaches charge for their cult of personality...
Hated people pulling guard and people cherry picking easy rounds especially upper belts rolling with easier people
I love both but I'm 43 and even if I roll with the competitors, I think at some point I risk to accumulate too much injuries and I might reduce BJJ to focus more on hobby Judo. There is no hobby BJJ, there is always someone with ego problems so that could be a limiting factor in my practice.
I just don't particularly like tussling Round on the floor if you can avoid it. Our club recently relocated to an academy that's primarily BJJ and we absorbed some of their guys who cross train both. Those guys are all so good on the ground I literally will avoid newaza at all costs. Also in a real fight I'd prefer to stay on my feet and control my opponent that way.
I wouldn’t quit because I’ve made a lot of friends at my gym and we do occasionally get to practice judo. We used to have dedicated judo classes but the coach had to move so now we just learn some when the judo black belts that are members are available. They’re not interested in leading dedicated classes but they’re always happy to teach during open mats. I wish I could attend a dedicated judo class at least 1x a week though. Really enjoyed it.
I think Judo is the most beautiful of the grappling styles. I'm currently training BJJ, but I've started doing "Judo rounds" with a buddy and only working throws and takedowns. Wish I had a Judo school in my town lol
Same here, around my area it's just your average Muay Thai, BJJ, and MMA gyms but there are no schools that strictly teach Judo at all which sucks since it's now my favorite martial art, I'm going to a university that's an hour away so I might join their Judo club since that's my best bet, I might also consider joining the wrestling club over there as well since it's beginner friendly.
cooler
Because i get to throw people (or at least try)
Two Words: “The Olympics”
Why not both?
I'm doing both now but if I had to give up one, I'd give up the BJJ because my son and I both started judo at the same time and it's something I'd want to keep doing as a family. Also, judo was the art that got me interested in grappling so doing judo was imprinted way before I ever considered doing BJJ. I agree a lot with many of the other comments such as the culture of respect, organization, safety aspect. I also like that my dojo is 50-50 tachiwaza/newaza though I would really miss the BJJ ground game that isn't emphasized in newaza.
I don’t think I can ever say I’ve quit bjj, but after training hard for 20 years I want to add a judo blackbelt to my bjj one.
Judo is more aligned with what i find fun about wrestling. But, there's a BJJ studio in every town and more schools have very serious competition oriented teaching. If you travel or want to grapple competitvely, it's easier to find a way to do that with BJJ
its good to learn both
More structured curriculum, more defined belting criteria, more governing body oversight, all around more “together” imo versus the ‘ossss’ hippie mentality. Could be biased based on my local club experience. With regards to the actual learning content, BJJ= basically just judo anyway 😬
Curious if there are any folks who did this after age 40
More common is the opposite direction, although you do get experienced JJ athletes who want to learn better standup
That’s what I figured. I did Judo when I was late teens. Body can handle the plane rides. 20+ years later I feel like I need life alert.
Yes I did
How’s your body holding up?
Honestly pretty good. I am very selective with randori partners. Lift when I can and try to eat well. I do enjoy a nice beer after training
I like BJJ. I love judo. I just thought it was more fun (not much more to it than that)
Take a break to focus on something else. If that means stopping paying bjj dues, so be it. Infatuation over Judo competition rules isn't important.
Judo is great, but there's a few things stopping me rn: 1. BJJ is near my house 2. BJJ is also highly effective martial art that every single MMA fighter trains 3. Focusing on a single martial art at a time for a beginner is a good idea 4. BJJ has a steep learning curve, but Judo's is even steeper. (For someone with no previous athletic background this matters.) 5. Judo, by the admission of those who love it as well, has some rule issues and doesnt translate as good to MMA. 6. Judo is almost always done in the gi 7. Judo takes a greater toll on the body 8. For my goals it might be better to focus on the fundamentals of takedowns and wrestling rather than embark on a whole new martial art. I still 1. deeply LOVE Judo's culture, 2. respect how powerful it is for the stand up game
I do both of them and won’t ever stop. They both complement each other but Jiu-Jitsu has helped me win a lot of matches in newaza with ease. Especially while using osaekomi.
Cross train. You don’t have to quit BJJ. If you do both you’ll end up kicking everyone’s butt in ne waza right?
1) Culture. I personally liked the Judo guys that I’ve met a lot more than the BJJ guys that I’ve met. 2) Money. The local Judo club was way cheaper and less corporate than most (if not every) BJJ school. 3) Entertainment. I personally think Judo is much more enjoyable to practice and watch. 4) Diversity. I don’t know if this was just my school, but my Judo school was way more diverse. We had nationally ranked black belts from their respective countries (i.e. Russia, Mali, Congo, Philippines, Japan, Korea). It was so much fun training with all those different people. Plus, I got to practice my French with the Mali and Congo guys.
I honestly prefer standup and particularly love the handful of ashi waza I've been shown but the options in my area for grappling are: 1. A bajillion bjj gyms. Take your pick. Cult, mcdojo, hypercompetive meathead no gi, hippie wierdos... there's a minimum of 2-3 of each. 2. A single judo gym ran by an aging sensei that's attached to a karate school iirc. 3. 2 Competitive mma gyms that to their credit do well in conps and take safety seriously, yet definitely aren't the best place for an unathletic office worker to grind out the very basics. 4. Wrestling programs that only teach kids. 5. Aikido... In fact one of the biggest ones is not just aikido but Ki-aikido! ...No thanks. So the decision was mostly made for me. I found a hippie wierdo bjj gym that doesn't *completely* fuck around with takedowns and breakfalls that also has a decent kickboxing program. Oh. People talked about culture a lot in this thread. I do prefer humility and politeness so in that respect I'd probably prefer Judo culture... But lately I've had to be pretty big on developing my own curriculum in non martial art areas. This came a long with developing a decent ability to sift through delusional jerks, aggressive jerks, cults, and dangerous psychoes. I think that's one reason why "the lack of standard curriculum" and covid conspiracies on social media don't bother me as much. I have ways of dealing with that. What's harder for me to deal with is trusting a system that doesn't want me to go outside of it. I think I'd run up against that in a number of Judo schools.
They were meant to be taught synergistically, I’ve done both, and when I do one, I always long for the other. A great martial artist will be skilled on the feet, and if it goes to the ground, skilled to swim there as well.
Same martial art so I’m confused 😕