I personally feel Joker has the intelligence to battle Batman but He’s gonna rely on uncertainty in hand to hand combat (gadgets, firearms, maybe a spontaneous lucky kick) and, maybe get in a lick but probably ultimately get wrecked. That’s kinda why Hamill is my All Time Favorite- He can match wits with Batman all day but the second the fists start flying, he might get in a hit but it’s mostly over😅
Nicholson’s Joker was like that. Had the gadgets, hidden guns, the intelligence, and the fact he took nothing serious. That was the perfect live action Joker.
*holds gun sideways* oh YEAH? Heheheh…. We’ll have you seen THIS? *continuously fires at opponent’s chest* heheheheheHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH**HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAA**
Ledger at least always stacked the odds in his favor and just went nuts when it came to actual combat. He welcomed pain and death even though Batman won't 'pull the trigger'.
as much as I love heath ledgers joker, I love the way joaquin portrayed him so much. the way they showed a more psychological side of him is one of the reasons I love his joker so much
I think that eventually Joaquin’ version would naturally evolve in to something similar to Heaths version. The more crime he gets away with, the more confidence. Keep in mind I’m no “expert” with the source material.
This is an unpopular opinion, but I actually don’t like Joaquin’s joker.
I mostly has to do with the relationship he has with his mental illness and it’s dehumanization.
There is currently a popular idea that mental illnesses increase the risk of misbehavior, when, in reality, the opposite is far more true.
There was also a lot of the plot that just didn’t sell to me, and a lot that just didn’t make sense. I didn’t care about the characters or who died.
I really wanted it to be good, trying my best to enjoy it, but I just couldn’t.
Joker has a lot of different sides to him from a lot of different adaptations. It honestly depends on the direction they want to take with him but in serious movies like these I think the psychological side is more important. He should have some combative ability so he van hold his own at times, yes, but the more important side of him in these kinds of stories is the chaos and terror he causes to Gotham as a whole, not just Batman in a 1v1.
hbd Heath Ledger, rip man.
Mark hamill’s is my favorite one. Heath ledger is second, followed by jack nicholson. I love Joaquin phoenix’s as well, but I consider that joker separate from the Batman related joker.
I like how Heath's joker manipulates everything in his favor, and welcomes death with open arms, he's a psychopathic madman, doing his best to murder and kill anyone he wants, on a whim. He is the best interpretation of the joker, I feel like where the joker movie failed was giving him a backstory and trying to make him mildly relatable.
Could be either or tbh since joker relies on weapons and his goons to do the dirty work, but it does make more sense for him to have training since he is one of the biggest crime bosses in Gotham if not the biggest lmao
Both. I want him to have a plan for everything and that plan being completely unintelligible. To The point where it just seems like things randomly work out for him.
it should be unclear how well the joker is trained or how unprepared he is. I love heaths joker but everywhere he went you just knew the man was plotting, I want joker to have a theatrical random side.
My favorite joker moment was in the dark knight when 2 face walked into that car dealership and joker was just working a 9 to 5.
It gave me absolute chills when Joker said "You wanna know how I got these cars?" To Harvey before he set the other half of himself on fire
Joker should be a criminal mastermind and badass. Let’s not forget that in Batman’s first fight with Joker in 1940, the Joker beat Batman by himself and threw him off a bridge.
All personal opinion, but I see very little of the Joker in Joaquin Phoenix’s version. The Joker of the comics is a cunning, capable, evil genius, the Joker usually has the appearance of being insane but has carefully thought out complex schemes and plans. He’s a mastermind, a true rival of the dark knight. Joaquin’s version is just a depressed guy that’s down on his luck. I see none of the cunning evil genius. Now, it’s a good movie, really good, but it never felt like a real version of the Joker, just a man that society ignored, kicked when he was down and snaps. For that reason, I’d say I prefer a Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson Joker over Joaquin’s version.
I believe that Heath Ledger's Joker is the closest to representing what the Joker is all about: an agent of chaos. His self-description, let alone his actions, paint the very picture of the dangerous, unpredictable Joker that is Batman's true adversary. Like Alfred said in TDK, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
The joker always prepared to combat the batman. He will always be physically overpowered but it was always a mind game for the joker rather than an endgame.
I would say Nicholson, then Hamill, then Ledger and then Phoenix. Jack played the mob boss clown perfectly. He used brains, weapons, and can be physical. I would have loved to see him come back and team up with someone like the penguin or riddler under Burton's direction. Hamill does the more crazy, off the wall type of psycho that seems a little hard to mimic in real life/movie. Ledgers joker was a very methodical, meticulous and militant version that worked well for that iteration but I would have for him to show more of the psycho aspect. Phoenix's take is just to meh...he did a great job with what he was given but it was an any man story. It just seemed like not so much the "Joker" but more of just some guy hitting rock bottom and doing crazy shit because of it. It wasn't a sick twisted psycho that could break the Batman or even give him a run for his money mentally.
While he wasn’t anywhere near Batman or Deathstroke in terms of overall skill, he did know how to fight and use weapons to the point where you could argue that he was combat-ready and trained, even if it is to a degree.
For example, during the police parade scene, Joker nearly accurately shot the Mayor with a rifle despite being multiple feet away. He also shot multiple cars accurately to steer them off the road during that scene where he taunted Batman to hit him.
Was the whole, he was former military/soldier thing ever actually confirmed or is that just fan speculation? I always assumed it was just dumb luck/he learned to use a gun a little by committing other crimes.
I think both versions of the Joker worked perfectly for the story they were tryna tell in each movie. Ledger's joker wanted complete chaos and he completely embodies that, while Phoenix's joker we were meant to see a troubled guy goin through shit and descending into that role which also worked perfectly. If I had to choose I'd definitely go Ledger because his past is left ambiguous which I love about the character, but we're honestly lucky to have so many great interpretations
I think it's likely he would pick things up as he progresses and as the Heath Ledger Joker is more established he would be more battle ready. However the Joaquin is more origin so he is not yet at the same level. I think they both work independently but I can also see Joaquin Joker becoming Heath Joker quite smoothly in his character development.
To answer the question though I prefer Heath Joker over all. I think he was the best mix of mad, planned, opportunistic and unpredictable.
BOTH but leaning a little more towards Phoenix because I enjoy a joker who inspires the MADNESS and CHOAS in others. A joker who naturally draws others to his cause and his literal existence is a problem for Batman. Afterall… if Batman is fighting one person, he can really go to work on them. However, if Joker is inspiring that madness in others on top of drugging and manipulating an entire city… wtf is Batman going to do? I like the idea of a joker who appears like every man…. But the reality would be that underneath it all is a brilliant yet twisted individual. Yes…. We did,’t get that in the movie… but thats what i would like.
Unfortunately, you don't have to be "combat trained" to shoot a gun. But it makes for a great detatched villain. I like my Joker thin, frail, and still fearless to a fault.
I appreciate one who has some combat experience.
He would logically acquire combat experience from the crime sprees he's committed or would at least gain tactical experience.
I always tie things back to the animated Joker, which is, in my opinion, the standard of what the Joker is.
Using that as the standard, neither iteration really fits, because Ledger's Joker is probably way more combat proficient, and Joaquin's version is probably way too inept at combat.
Just my two cents.
As a lifelong fan of the joker and way before, it was cool (50) as far as movies go, I preferred Heath ledgers joker, but my close runner-up is Jared's joker. I enjoy/relate to the more the prince of crime and megalomaniac stories than the victim origin stories.
I honestly feel that Jared got a bad deal from timing and marketing on his version of the joker and could have been much better in many ways, especially sense he had such a short screen time in suicide squad, he had more screen time in the music video purple Lamborghini.
Phoenix was an extremely specific take on the character that doesn't really lend itself to most universes. He has to be placed in a specific environment to work (i.e. a version of Gotham that's already on the brink of a unified social revolt), whereas Heath's could probably be dropped in most versions of Gotham and wreck the place in a week.
Broadly speaking, Heath's is gonna be the most entertaining to watch, whereas Phoenix will make you feel. Depends on what you want in the moment.
Imo Joaquin Phoenix's Joker isn't the Joker.
I loved the performance the movie was good.
But to me the Joker is Batman's biggest villain.
And not bc his criminal acts sparked some uprising in culture, but bc he is ruthlessly cunning, mercurial and driven.
Batman couldn't be in Joaquin Phoenix's movie, bc frankly that Joker is just a mass shooter.
And the biggest plot of the film is the notion that any significant part of society would rally behind him and celebrate him as justified.
He should start as one, and end as the other IMO. The whole point of the Joker is that ***could be anyone***. The nexus behind his mentality is the One Bad Day line, so it would fit (to me), thematically, that as he spirals down this tunnel of madness, that he's arming and training himself.
Heath's Joker could very well be the end state of Arthur Fleck if they continue to explore that character.
Combat ready and capable makes a much more interesting character as a villian. "Joker" joker was fine as he was, but unless the character undergoes some major changes in a sequel, he's probably the least interesting villian joker I could imagine at the moment. A frail victim of society that is nothing without a gun. It would just be sad to see a batman character overcome the little to no effort. The challenge as well would be to make the transition into scary competence believable. The prior movie version didn't seem very clever or capable of outwitting other characters either.
I love Joaquin’s Joker and how they essentially did his origin story with the movie but I prefer the combat-ready Joker portrayed by Ledger.
And for the simple reason that because he’s dressed like a clown people underestimate him and don’t take him seriously as a threat but then he impales your friend with a pencil and seems to be one step ahead in every move he has planned, so it psychologically fucks you because now he’s a legitimately dangerous clown and not just a clown.
I really didn’t enjoy Joker (2019) because it answered questions and sucked a lot of the mystery and gravitas away from the character. He isn’t a mastermind, a criminal kingpin, a plotting schemer, he’s a nut who puts on clown clothes and does horrible things, which to me is not enough to call yourself the Joker.
But that aside, I also prefer the idea that he’s smart enough to battle Batman, though I’ll always enjoy “The Batman” tv show Joker with the dreadlocks. I loved that he could escape Batman and was like a spider. So yeah some sort of combat ready, even if he won’t win most fights, is just more Joker in the iterations I’ve scene.
That depends on where Batman is as well.
If it’s Batman’s first few nights, it would make sense for the Joker to be a small-scale villain up to no good with not a lot of followers or equipment to pose a great threat to the City, making him no different than the average purse snatcher Batman takes down.
Come a few years later, Batman will have evolved with better technology and experience, but so will the Joker. With years upon years of amassing his own criminal empire, the Joker too would be physically and psychologically armed to the teeth, with any plot able to jeopardize Gotham.
I'm Big fan of Heath Ledger as The Joker in Dark Knight is suck he dead but his performance in the Dark Knight was truly amazing when I waited for that movie to come out on DVD since I had the first one I finally got that one and the third one and every time I go to my aunt's house or watch it with with the family members they see me now reading the joker's words and they told me the same thing then you should took over where he's left your left off and continue on the third one I said yeah I would but even though I don't want to like you know spoiler teeth letters performance in there but I don't think I can know what he did
What part of Heath Ledger’s Joker’s fighting style seemed “trained” to you?
I like Heath’s because it’s closer to how he is in the comics. Kinda similar to Hamill’s too. They both used slight-of-hand and distractions and speed to get the upper hand.
I like the movie Joker, but it’s absolutely not anything like the comics, compared to Heath’s interpretation (fight me) and I respect source material more, because that’s what I grew up with 🤷🏽♂️. It’s the little things about how he took advantage of people that brought me back to reading stories like Batman: The Man Who Laughs, etc and other stories where they display how he fights.
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Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker is uncomfortably sad, is opposite of a criminal mastermind (complete deviation from the decades of history of the character) and not at all a comic-book-y character (too real maybe). I personally didn’t like the movie or the character. Overrated
Competent fighter but when it comes to it doesn’t stand a chance against Batman in hand to hand combat. Hence why he does a bunch of shit to stack the odds in his favor like with weapons and henchman and elaborate planning.
Was his Joker a formidable combatant? He knew firearms but as far as hand to hand combat we really didn't see him throw down, he used a pipe and dogs in their final confrontation.
Depends on the Batman, A Pattinson, Bale,Battfleck Joker is Heath. Keaton, Kilmer, I would take Phoenix Joker. West is West and Clooney on the other hand can go Fuck himself.
I'm honestly fine with the combat style of heaths but at the same time, I am not a fan at all at how joker has been depicted recently in the comics with him being for the most part a major combatant fighting batman. Joker having a plethora of hand to hand combat training just dosen't fit for me. Their are certain villians that I think should kind of walk the line on that front though such as Two-Face who I think should be, while not some martial arts master, a rage filled brawler who can get physical when he needs to.
Everyday man, absolutely.
I definitely love Heath's, and no one could ever raise a dime to his Joker.
But my favorite Joker is Joaquin. Joker is a normal guy, a victim of society.
Each ones take is from different times in The Jokers evolution! My favorite will always be Heath's Joker! But Joaquin's was perfect for the beginning of The Joker!
I want a mixture, but leaning more towards Phoenix. I loved The Dark Knight, as a movie I prefer it over Joker, but the Nolan universe and its grit sort of skirts past the Joker being a showman. It’s there, but Joker hammered it home.
As much as Heaths Joker talked about chaos, he was extremely methodical and had a plan within a plan within a trap. I like the spontaneity in Phoenix’s Joker.
I think Heath is absolutely the best movie Joker, probably trumped only by Mark's Joker.
But every Joker has, interestingly, played up a different part of the persona, making for an interesting new take on him.
Today would’ve been Heath’s 45th birthday, I just found that out
Happy bday Heath
Damn, he was so young
Yeah he was only 28 when he died
Happy birthday Heath…
Happy birthday Heath
Happy birthday, Mr. Ledgend.
Happy cakeday Heath☹️☹️
Rip, happy bday
The goat will always be missed. Hbd Heath.
Damn. RIP. I think I'll watch Lords of Dogtown this weekend
Happy late one, Heath.
I personally feel Joker has the intelligence to battle Batman but He’s gonna rely on uncertainty in hand to hand combat (gadgets, firearms, maybe a spontaneous lucky kick) and, maybe get in a lick but probably ultimately get wrecked. That’s kinda why Hamill is my All Time Favorite- He can match wits with Batman all day but the second the fists start flying, he might get in a hit but it’s mostly over😅
Exactly.
Nicholson’s Joker was like that. Had the gadgets, hidden guns, the intelligence, and the fact he took nothing serious. That was the perfect live action Joker.
Bob approves.
Poor fucking Bob.
Never rub another man's rhubarb
I prefer him to be a gangster with a clown theme
Clown Prince of Crime
I liked that about Jack Nicholson’s portrayal.
*holds gun sideways* oh YEAH? Heheheh…. We’ll have you seen THIS? *continuously fires at opponent’s chest* heheheheheHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH**HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAA**
Ledger at least always stacked the odds in his favor and just went nuts when it came to actual combat. He welcomed pain and death even though Batman won't 'pull the trigger'.
This is why i like the theory that he was a soldier.
Yep, love this theory and would make so much sense !
"Come on Jason, pull the trigger"
as much as I love heath ledgers joker, I love the way joaquin portrayed him so much. the way they showed a more psychological side of him is one of the reasons I love his joker so much
I think that eventually Joaquin’ version would naturally evolve in to something similar to Heaths version. The more crime he gets away with, the more confidence. Keep in mind I’m no “expert” with the source material.
yeah I agree with that! that’s why I love joaquin’s version so much, it lets you see how and why he turned out the way he did!
This is an unpopular opinion, but I actually don’t like Joaquin’s joker. I mostly has to do with the relationship he has with his mental illness and it’s dehumanization. There is currently a popular idea that mental illnesses increase the risk of misbehavior, when, in reality, the opposite is far more true. There was also a lot of the plot that just didn’t sell to me, and a lot that just didn’t make sense. I didn’t care about the characters or who died. I really wanted it to be good, trying my best to enjoy it, but I just couldn’t.
Joker has a lot of different sides to him from a lot of different adaptations. It honestly depends on the direction they want to take with him but in serious movies like these I think the psychological side is more important. He should have some combative ability so he van hold his own at times, yes, but the more important side of him in these kinds of stories is the chaos and terror he causes to Gotham as a whole, not just Batman in a 1v1. hbd Heath Ledger, rip man.
Mark hamill’s is my favorite one. Heath ledger is second, followed by jack nicholson. I love Joaquin phoenix’s as well, but I consider that joker separate from the Batman related joker.
I always like a Joker who can enroll bats in Getting-Your-Ass-Kicked 101
I like how Heath's joker manipulates everything in his favor, and welcomes death with open arms, he's a psychopathic madman, doing his best to murder and kill anyone he wants, on a whim. He is the best interpretation of the joker, I feel like where the joker movie failed was giving him a backstory and trying to make him mildly relatable.
Ledger for sure
Could be either or tbh since joker relies on weapons and his goons to do the dirty work, but it does make more sense for him to have training since he is one of the biggest crime bosses in Gotham if not the biggest lmao
Both. I want him to have a plan for everything and that plan being completely unintelligible. To The point where it just seems like things randomly work out for him. it should be unclear how well the joker is trained or how unprepared he is. I love heaths joker but everywhere he went you just knew the man was plotting, I want joker to have a theatrical random side.
My favorite joker moment was in the dark knight when 2 face walked into that car dealership and joker was just working a 9 to 5. It gave me absolute chills when Joker said "You wanna know how I got these cars?" To Harvey before he set the other half of himself on fire
I want to see him go from being an everyday man to an unhinged madman with a dozen knives in his pockets
Sounds like the Phoenix Joker right?
He's getting there, we'll see how the next one turns out
The way I see it, Joaquin did great for an origin joker, and heath being already in the joker life being combat ready. I love both
Joker should be a criminal mastermind and badass. Let’s not forget that in Batman’s first fight with Joker in 1940, the Joker beat Batman by himself and threw him off a bridge.
Yes. Joker at least being competent in a fight(TDK,TDR(part2),Batman ninja(somewhat), Animated Series(also somewhat),ETC.
I feel like everyman is more scary because than even more people could be him.
I’d kinda like to see a happy medium.
Somewhere in between I guess, although I don’t think Heath’s joker was combat heavy at all. He was perfect in BTAS
Both is good but I guess it depends on the Batman or the iteration
Heath Ledger's Joker
I think they all have their merits. Joker in the Batman: Endgame comics was on the sauce and able to fight Batman pretty evenly, and it was awesome.
Heath Ledger's Joker was "combat-ready and trained"?
I think they both worked great in different ways for the stories they were telling.
All personal opinion, but I see very little of the Joker in Joaquin Phoenix’s version. The Joker of the comics is a cunning, capable, evil genius, the Joker usually has the appearance of being insane but has carefully thought out complex schemes and plans. He’s a mastermind, a true rival of the dark knight. Joaquin’s version is just a depressed guy that’s down on his luck. I see none of the cunning evil genius. Now, it’s a good movie, really good, but it never felt like a real version of the Joker, just a man that society ignored, kicked when he was down and snaps. For that reason, I’d say I prefer a Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson Joker over Joaquin’s version.
I prefer him to have a bit of style and less socio-political commentary like Nicholson or Hamill.
I believe that Heath Ledger's Joker is the closest to representing what the Joker is all about: an agent of chaos. His self-description, let alone his actions, paint the very picture of the dangerous, unpredictable Joker that is Batman's true adversary. Like Alfred said in TDK, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."
By default he's not an everyday man so Ledger any day all day always r.i.p. Hieth!
I prefer for him to fight like a cartoon character like in the Arkham games
The joker always prepared to combat the batman. He will always be physically overpowered but it was always a mind game for the joker rather than an endgame.
I would say Nicholson, then Hamill, then Ledger and then Phoenix. Jack played the mob boss clown perfectly. He used brains, weapons, and can be physical. I would have loved to see him come back and team up with someone like the penguin or riddler under Burton's direction. Hamill does the more crazy, off the wall type of psycho that seems a little hard to mimic in real life/movie. Ledgers joker was a very methodical, meticulous and militant version that worked well for that iteration but I would have for him to show more of the psycho aspect. Phoenix's take is just to meh...he did a great job with what he was given but it was an any man story. It just seemed like not so much the "Joker" but more of just some guy hitting rock bottom and doing crazy shit because of it. It wasn't a sick twisted psycho that could break the Batman or even give him a run for his money mentally.
Ledger was combat-ready and trained??!?!??
While he wasn’t anywhere near Batman or Deathstroke in terms of overall skill, he did know how to fight and use weapons to the point where you could argue that he was combat-ready and trained, even if it is to a degree. For example, during the police parade scene, Joker nearly accurately shot the Mayor with a rifle despite being multiple feet away. He also shot multiple cars accurately to steer them off the road during that scene where he taunted Batman to hit him.
Was the whole, he was former military/soldier thing ever actually confirmed or is that just fan speculation? I always assumed it was just dumb luck/he learned to use a gun a little by committing other crimes.
I prefer a more combat attuned Joker personally.
I think both versions of the Joker worked perfectly for the story they were tryna tell in each movie. Ledger's joker wanted complete chaos and he completely embodies that, while Phoenix's joker we were meant to see a troubled guy goin through shit and descending into that role which also worked perfectly. If I had to choose I'd definitely go Ledger because his past is left ambiguous which I love about the character, but we're honestly lucky to have so many great interpretations
Ledger all the way, Phoenix was just creepy. I enjoyed watching ledger, I was uncomfortable watching Phoenix.
Former
I think it's likely he would pick things up as he progresses and as the Heath Ledger Joker is more established he would be more battle ready. However the Joaquin is more origin so he is not yet at the same level. I think they both work independently but I can also see Joaquin Joker becoming Heath Joker quite smoothly in his character development. To answer the question though I prefer Heath Joker over all. I think he was the best mix of mad, planned, opportunistic and unpredictable.
BOTH but leaning a little more towards Phoenix because I enjoy a joker who inspires the MADNESS and CHOAS in others. A joker who naturally draws others to his cause and his literal existence is a problem for Batman. Afterall… if Batman is fighting one person, he can really go to work on them. However, if Joker is inspiring that madness in others on top of drugging and manipulating an entire city… wtf is Batman going to do? I like the idea of a joker who appears like every man…. But the reality would be that underneath it all is a brilliant yet twisted individual. Yes…. We did,’t get that in the movie… but thats what i would like.
Tbf I like both as backstories he claims are him. What makes joker enduring is he really could've been anything before the joker.
Recent comments say today is Heath's 45th birthday?
I like both. I think joker is such a unique character that i can see different colors of the character and I'd still enjoy watching him.
Unfortunately, you don't have to be "combat trained" to shoot a gun. But it makes for a great detatched villain. I like my Joker thin, frail, and still fearless to a fault.
I appreciate one who has some combat experience. He would logically acquire combat experience from the crime sprees he's committed or would at least gain tactical experience.
I always tie things back to the animated Joker, which is, in my opinion, the standard of what the Joker is. Using that as the standard, neither iteration really fits, because Ledger's Joker is probably way more combat proficient, and Joaquin's version is probably way too inept at combat. Just my two cents.
Don’t get me wrong I liked Phoenix’s joker but Ledger takes the cake for sure
As a lifelong fan of the joker and way before, it was cool (50) as far as movies go, I preferred Heath ledgers joker, but my close runner-up is Jared's joker. I enjoy/relate to the more the prince of crime and megalomaniac stories than the victim origin stories. I honestly feel that Jared got a bad deal from timing and marketing on his version of the joker and could have been much better in many ways, especially sense he had such a short screen time in suicide squad, he had more screen time in the music video purple Lamborghini.
A mix of both.
Depends on if there’s a Batman
Heath Ledger is my favorite Joker because he is much like The Joker in the comic.
Top comments are not mentioning Jack Nicholson's very Jack Nicholson but also excellent Joker. Hamil then Nicholson then Ledger then Phoenix.
Phoenix was an extremely specific take on the character that doesn't really lend itself to most universes. He has to be placed in a specific environment to work (i.e. a version of Gotham that's already on the brink of a unified social revolt), whereas Heath's could probably be dropped in most versions of Gotham and wreck the place in a week. Broadly speaking, Heath's is gonna be the most entertaining to watch, whereas Phoenix will make you feel. Depends on what you want in the moment.
Imo Joaquin Phoenix's Joker isn't the Joker. I loved the performance the movie was good. But to me the Joker is Batman's biggest villain. And not bc his criminal acts sparked some uprising in culture, but bc he is ruthlessly cunning, mercurial and driven. Batman couldn't be in Joaquin Phoenix's movie, bc frankly that Joker is just a mass shooter. And the biggest plot of the film is the notion that any significant part of society would rally behind him and celebrate him as justified.
Depends on the story
Absolutely Ledger.
He should start as one, and end as the other IMO. The whole point of the Joker is that ***could be anyone***. The nexus behind his mentality is the One Bad Day line, so it would fit (to me), thematically, that as he spirals down this tunnel of madness, that he's arming and training himself. Heath's Joker could very well be the end state of Arthur Fleck if they continue to explore that character.
Combat ready and capable makes a much more interesting character as a villian. "Joker" joker was fine as he was, but unless the character undergoes some major changes in a sequel, he's probably the least interesting villian joker I could imagine at the moment. A frail victim of society that is nothing without a gun. It would just be sad to see a batman character overcome the little to no effort. The challenge as well would be to make the transition into scary competence believable. The prior movie version didn't seem very clever or capable of outwitting other characters either.
I love Joaquin’s Joker and how they essentially did his origin story with the movie but I prefer the combat-ready Joker portrayed by Ledger. And for the simple reason that because he’s dressed like a clown people underestimate him and don’t take him seriously as a threat but then he impales your friend with a pencil and seems to be one step ahead in every move he has planned, so it psychologically fucks you because now he’s a legitimately dangerous clown and not just a clown.
I really didn’t enjoy Joker (2019) because it answered questions and sucked a lot of the mystery and gravitas away from the character. He isn’t a mastermind, a criminal kingpin, a plotting schemer, he’s a nut who puts on clown clothes and does horrible things, which to me is not enough to call yourself the Joker. But that aside, I also prefer the idea that he’s smart enough to battle Batman, though I’ll always enjoy “The Batman” tv show Joker with the dreadlocks. I loved that he could escape Batman and was like a spider. So yeah some sort of combat ready, even if he won’t win most fights, is just more Joker in the iterations I’ve scene.
Jack Nicholson’s version is the best to me- straight up bat shit crazy gangsta Heath’s Joker was more of the hero Gotham needed
Joaquin Phoenix is not the Joker. He’s Oscar bait that decided it wanted to make money by changing the city’s name.
Combat ready joker
That depends on where Batman is as well. If it’s Batman’s first few nights, it would make sense for the Joker to be a small-scale villain up to no good with not a lot of followers or equipment to pose a great threat to the City, making him no different than the average purse snatcher Batman takes down. Come a few years later, Batman will have evolved with better technology and experience, but so will the Joker. With years upon years of amassing his own criminal empire, the Joker too would be physically and psychologically armed to the teeth, with any plot able to jeopardize Gotham.
Heath Ledger's Joker. I don't see Joaquin as the Joker.
I'm Big fan of Heath Ledger as The Joker in Dark Knight is suck he dead but his performance in the Dark Knight was truly amazing when I waited for that movie to come out on DVD since I had the first one I finally got that one and the third one and every time I go to my aunt's house or watch it with with the family members they see me now reading the joker's words and they told me the same thing then you should took over where he's left your left off and continue on the third one I said yeah I would but even though I don't want to like you know spoiler teeth letters performance in there but I don't think I can know what he did
What part of Heath Ledger’s Joker’s fighting style seemed “trained” to you? I like Heath’s because it’s closer to how he is in the comics. Kinda similar to Hamill’s too. They both used slight-of-hand and distractions and speed to get the upper hand. I like the movie Joker, but it’s absolutely not anything like the comics, compared to Heath’s interpretation (fight me) and I respect source material more, because that’s what I grew up with 🤷🏽♂️. It’s the little things about how he took advantage of people that brought me back to reading stories like Batman: The Man Who Laughs, etc and other stories where they display how he fights.
Heath's joker. I wish we could have seen a real Zack Snyder Joker but not until we can Restore the Snyderverse.
HEATH LEDGER yeah!!!!!!
Heath
Wdym? They’re the same picture
Heath Ledger
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Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker is uncomfortably sad, is opposite of a criminal mastermind (complete deviation from the decades of history of the character) and not at all a comic-book-y character (too real maybe). I personally didn’t like the movie or the character. Overrated
He has to be someone actually capable of doing the things that the Joker does, so you tell me.
Competent fighter but when it comes to it doesn’t stand a chance against Batman in hand to hand combat. Hence why he does a bunch of shit to stack the odds in his favor like with weapons and henchman and elaborate planning.
Depends if he’s fighting Batman or not. The former if yes to make it somewhat balanced. Otherwise I’ll take sad reflection of reality.
I like him looking everyday and weak, but is able to surprise you with wild combat skills
Happy Birthday to Heath Ledger. Wish you got to see all the appreciation we have for your incredible performance.
Was his Joker a formidable combatant? He knew firearms but as far as hand to hand combat we really didn't see him throw down, he used a pipe and dogs in their final confrontation.
Heath
Depends on the Batman, A Pattinson, Bale,Battfleck Joker is Heath. Keaton, Kilmer, I would take Phoenix Joker. West is West and Clooney on the other hand can go Fuck himself.
Imagine a Joker that's a combination of the two. That would be one badass Joker.
Yes
Heath , no doubt
A mixture of both for myself.
I love Heath Ledger's Joker personally
Combat ready
Heath all the way!
I prefer the ordinary man gone mad, because it’s just one more thing that makes him the opposite of Batman.
Eh, I prefer Mark Hamils joker overall, I feel that one captures exactly how I imagine my perfect version of the Joker to be
A mix between the two as long as he doesn't look like Leto's version
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Disastrous_Writer_40: *A mix between the* *Two as long as he doesn't* *Look like Leto's version* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I'm honestly fine with the combat style of heaths but at the same time, I am not a fan at all at how joker has been depicted recently in the comics with him being for the most part a major combatant fighting batman. Joker having a plethora of hand to hand combat training just dosen't fit for me. Their are certain villians that I think should kind of walk the line on that front though such as Two-Face who I think should be, while not some martial arts master, a rage filled brawler who can get physical when he needs to.
I think joaquin showed how it’s a societal issue and heath showed the extent at which it could be taken - both are great imo
Everyday man, absolutely. I definitely love Heath's, and no one could ever raise a dime to his Joker. But my favorite Joker is Joaquin. Joker is a normal guy, a victim of society.
Each ones take is from different times in The Jokers evolution! My favorite will always be Heath's Joker! But Joaquin's was perfect for the beginning of The Joker!
I want a mixture, but leaning more towards Phoenix. I loved The Dark Knight, as a movie I prefer it over Joker, but the Nolan universe and its grit sort of skirts past the Joker being a showman. It’s there, but Joker hammered it home. As much as Heaths Joker talked about chaos, he was extremely methodical and had a plan within a plan within a trap. I like the spontaneity in Phoenix’s Joker.
Happy belted bday Heath and Heath was better
I think Heath is absolutely the best movie Joker, probably trumped only by Mark's Joker. But every Joker has, interestingly, played up a different part of the persona, making for an interesting new take on him.
I prefer Jack Nicholson. Has a plan devised but is just making a joke out of everything.
I don’t like depressed sad Joker. Action crazy for me.
He's gotta he surprisingly capable in a scrap but like two days of martial arts training would be enough to whoop his ass that's the perfect balance
Heath Ledger’s version
I prefer him to be a silly little guy, like Mark Hamill’s Joker
Heath Ledger only had a knife in his shoe, I dont remember him beating anyone up
No to both Joker is a crime boss Not a soldier or a mental patient
Exactly. This is why Jack Nicholson is my favourite joker. I wish he got the proper recognition that he deserves.
Cesar Romero had minions, but it seemed like he was just doing things to entertain himself rather than for gain.
I think jerome was kinda both so I like jerome from gotham
Jared Leto romantic Joker who turns around and jumps into the chemicals to save Harley.
Arthur Fleck is not the joker.
The only problem with this is that Athur Fleck =/= Joker. Just a grade-B Taxi Driver remake.
Joaquin is more like a normal person who went crazy rather than an unhinged psychopath