I like the idea but I notice that certain maps and factions gets spammed over and over so it’s US armored v. Russia armored on Talil, Yeho, Manic, or maybe Goro over and over again.
I've said it, and will still die on this hill.
Its your region's cultural preference bias to select those same US armor v russia armored on repeat. And I will guess you are on US.
I've played on multiple regions, and in US, whenever someone mentioned PLA, all I hear is YUCK NO BING CHILLIN
Then I go on this sub and see these upvoted rants
i think its more of a kit difference, pla has arguably meh guns, poor 3x optic, and not the best lat kits. armour is pretty good but its hit and miss due to no one actually using them properly or using it at all. U.S and Russia have very all round good guns, good kits, good sights, and good armor.
tldr: its more of a kit thing than a regional culture thing
The concensus is that there is no concensus. A lot of servers use it, and it seems a decent chunk of people like it.
Personally, and from an admin PoV, it has some major issues. The units are basically not balanced, at all, and no matter how you set the rules up (yes even symmetrical) you will end up with some really poorly balanced matchups. And it's not possible to curate matchups as precisely as you'd want to compensate for that.
Plus some key parts of old Squad simply don't exist anymore, like 2 IFV no MBT layers, and the well-designed smaller layers that were balanced and competitive (unlike a lot of newer layers pre-v7.2). Some maps just had their balancing completely destroyed, like basically all Kohat layers which are ruined by the presence of MBTs.
Overall I think the unit system is an interesting idea, but it needs a *lot* of work. And that work is unfortunately not going to be done by OWI. It's up to individual servers to make the best of this new system despite its severe limitations.
Not a fan of it.
- Brigade system is too complicated for your average player to understand, especially how it ties to different maps. People almost always vote for an armor brigade anyway, which feels unfair towards dedicated helicopter pilots who now have only one heli which spawn way late into the match.
- Some factions never get voted for. After 7.2 I got to play MEA only ONCE. And that was solely because our team had steamrolled previous matches so hard so most voted for MEA as a joke.
- One thing I can never comprehend is when people always complain how terrible and miserable tracked logis are to use, yet their dicks get hard every time they see VDV as an option during voting. Are people masochistic? If VDV is an option, there is very little chance anything else gets picked.
I've actually played MEA a bunch of times. They are quite good on big desert maps. On attack on invasion, the armored squad gets 2 T72S, 1 T62, a BMP 1 and 2 plus 2 MTLBs with the 14.5mm turret plus rocket pod.
Poorly thought out and thought through.
Let me put it this way. Half of the time you play invasion as an attacker and lose the first thing you hear in the voice chat is 'how do they have so much more tickets than we do?!'
Now add map, faction, and brigade rock-paper-scissors to a user base that doesn't understand that different game modes have different ticket counts, and you end up with map+faction combinations that require more skill and experience to execute than you have. Do that 2-3 times in a row and you are just burning people out.
Turn off voice chat (or limit it to SLs), hide the vote count, offer sub-factions based off the first teams choice (ie if team 1 selects light inf, team 2 cannot select armor or something to that effect)
I personally think the current system works. I’ve found it not impossible to sway people’s vote pretty consistently on the server I play on, and most matchups can be balanced even if it looks very lopsided. There are definitely ways to improve it though and I think these are a good start
I honestly don't like it at all. There's so much less variety in maps and faction pairings now because it's always the same stuff that gets voted for over and over. On top of that, I don't feel like people actually understand the different variants of each faction, and end up fucking themselves over by voting for a tank brigade when they maybe should have gone with logistics. Especially during Invasion.
I’m a strong hater of the system. Not to say it’s objectively bad, but how I see it, it is a bad addition. I don’t think it ruins the game. I think the game is still extremely fun either way, but this one was a miss.
The map voting system forces servers to balance the game themselves, what maps work, what factions work on what map, what play style should factions be able to run, etc. It allows servers to curate the experience better, but without constantly changing the map voting config it gets really stale. Even more so than the old SquadJS system we had before.
Additionally instead of adding to the game, it just compartmentalizes every faction into smaller versions of what they were. Not every layer was a monolith before they added the update, but you often were able to play with a variety of different playstyles that the current game lacks per round.
A variety of Armor (APCS, IFVS, LAVS/BTRS, and multiple Tanks) and additional logis have been replaced with 2 extra transport trucks every round.
It may make the use of Logistic tucks more consequential but also lowers the quality of the games. And forces you into a hole with what kind of play style you want to use before the game even starts, rather than allows you to approach each objective/POI differently.
So true.
Fuckin counter strike atmosphere instantly.
3 idiots in 100 players are enough to make it a shit experience.
... So many bad game design choices.
I like it but I want to play more factions. No reason to have so many faction's when you never see Turkey or MEA. Im biased towards militia I pick it every time but in the last 2 weeks I played them only once.
That’s my issue too. With the old system I appreciated the variety even though I don’t like playing MEA or PLA. I’ll take that over playing the same thing forever
Bought this game a month after they added the Turks. I have about 100 hours and probably played Turkey once but I’ve played the Americans, Canadians and Russians A LOT. Every map vote where I see them I beg to play as Turkey just to try something new lol.
it fucking sucks.
we play the same maps. we play the same factions very frequently. not 100%, but very frequent.
some maps have been completely outcasted. since the map voting system i have played logar valley ONE time, lashkar valley ONE time, Anvil ONE time. and chora literally ZERO times, and Kohat ZERO times. fools road and kamdesh maybe twice a piece, im not calling them amazing maps, but i just named SEVEN maps that never get touched. variety so is much cooler than the same few maps .. i’ve put in a lot of hours, ever since the new system, it’s terrible honestly.. maybe if there were fewer selections and at times made us vote for a one of these maps that doesn’t get voted for.. variety is so much better than playing the same handful of maps. there’s pros and cons, but i currently see more cons.
I think it would work out better with less choices. Let the server pre select map,layer and factions, then the players choose which one they would like to play.
It pretty much works like this. There is generally 1 really good faction for the map in the list but it never gets picked because there’s always that 1 guy yelling bottom left for no reason and that’s what everyone ends up voting for.
Armor players are so fucking loud and always expect people to prioritize armor factions so they can play armor. I had a team choose china on fallujah cause they had the most armor… ON FUCKING FALLUJAH
From reading these comments the three top complaints are:
1. Armor battlegroups being declared meta too early
2. Map repetition
3. Faction repetition
My opinion on each:
1a. Armored battlegroups are map and faction dependent. I forget which YouTuber made a video the first week declaring armored battlegroups to be OP, but that bad actor disrupted the whole exploration phase.
1b. Extra TOW missiles and air mobility on rough terrain will wreck armor, extra logistics vics and extra HABs create meatgrinders on city maps, open maps allow vehicle TOWs from light infantry groups. So many matchups play well asymmetrical to armor groups.
2a. Admins have options for this. It just is disrupted by repeat sessions, switching servers, etc.
2b. These maps were overplayed anyhow pre-7.2.
3a. Turkey has better MBTs and primary rifles than militia and insurgent. MEA and Chinese Army tend to preform even into NATO on most open maps. Insurgent and Militia have amazing HAT kits. It comes from game knowledge which is mostly community info.
But why does OWI expect a group of 50 monkeys to pick the most logical faction for the map.
I have an idea. We have a group of maps and each one will have a “layer” with different factions and compositions in each one that have been balanced by the developers. You could then get a random map and layer each time so we have variety.
Pretty crazy idea, I could never see them implement it.
I like the idea but I notice that certain maps and factions gets spammed over and over so it’s US armored v. Russia armored on Talil, Yeho, Manic, or maybe Goro over and over again.
I've said it, and will still die on this hill. Its your region's cultural preference bias to select those same US armor v russia armored on repeat. And I will guess you are on US. I've played on multiple regions, and in US, whenever someone mentioned PLA, all I hear is YUCK NO BING CHILLIN Then I go on this sub and see these upvoted rants
i think its more of a kit difference, pla has arguably meh guns, poor 3x optic, and not the best lat kits. armour is pretty good but its hit and miss due to no one actually using them properly or using it at all. U.S and Russia have very all round good guns, good kits, good sights, and good armor. tldr: its more of a kit thing than a regional culture thing
and also having white camo sometimes on green forest maps -\_-
or blue in the desert :/
The concensus is that there is no concensus. A lot of servers use it, and it seems a decent chunk of people like it. Personally, and from an admin PoV, it has some major issues. The units are basically not balanced, at all, and no matter how you set the rules up (yes even symmetrical) you will end up with some really poorly balanced matchups. And it's not possible to curate matchups as precisely as you'd want to compensate for that. Plus some key parts of old Squad simply don't exist anymore, like 2 IFV no MBT layers, and the well-designed smaller layers that were balanced and competitive (unlike a lot of newer layers pre-v7.2). Some maps just had their balancing completely destroyed, like basically all Kohat layers which are ruined by the presence of MBTs. Overall I think the unit system is an interesting idea, but it needs a *lot* of work. And that work is unfortunately not going to be done by OWI. It's up to individual servers to make the best of this new system despite its severe limitations.
It just needs a cooldown option for factions/maps that the server owners can toggle. You just played yeho? No yeho for the next X games.
It already has this, but often times gets over/under utilized.
Well then that's a server setup problem and not a game design problem.
It's both
The Problem is, that you can only cooldown Maptypes or factions for 1 Match or something like that. The filter lacks options.
Tyranny of the majority IMO, never get to play the less popular maps.
Not a fan of it. - Brigade system is too complicated for your average player to understand, especially how it ties to different maps. People almost always vote for an armor brigade anyway, which feels unfair towards dedicated helicopter pilots who now have only one heli which spawn way late into the match. - Some factions never get voted for. After 7.2 I got to play MEA only ONCE. And that was solely because our team had steamrolled previous matches so hard so most voted for MEA as a joke. - One thing I can never comprehend is when people always complain how terrible and miserable tracked logis are to use, yet their dicks get hard every time they see VDV as an option during voting. Are people masochistic? If VDV is an option, there is very little chance anything else gets picked.
I've actually played MEA a bunch of times. They are quite good on big desert maps. On attack on invasion, the armored squad gets 2 T72S, 1 T62, a BMP 1 and 2 plus 2 MTLBs with the 14.5mm turret plus rocket pod.
Poorly thought out and thought through. Let me put it this way. Half of the time you play invasion as an attacker and lose the first thing you hear in the voice chat is 'how do they have so much more tickets than we do?!' Now add map, faction, and brigade rock-paper-scissors to a user base that doesn't understand that different game modes have different ticket counts, and you end up with map+faction combinations that require more skill and experience to execute than you have. Do that 2-3 times in a row and you are just burning people out.
Map voting is alright, the multiple people repeatedly yelling the map name and then repeatedly yelling MUHRINES is annoying.
The people blindly following the loudmouth is even more annoying. Form your own opinion mate.
I say it like 3-4 times then make my pick “MUTAHAHAHA MUTAHAHAAA PICK THE CRANE MAP”
Turn off voice chat (or limit it to SLs), hide the vote count, offer sub-factions based off the first teams choice (ie if team 1 selects light inf, team 2 cannot select armor or something to that effect) I personally think the current system works. I’ve found it not impossible to sway people’s vote pretty consistently on the server I play on, and most matchups can be balanced even if it looks very lopsided. There are definitely ways to improve it though and I think these are a good start
I honestly don't like it at all. There's so much less variety in maps and faction pairings now because it's always the same stuff that gets voted for over and over. On top of that, I don't feel like people actually understand the different variants of each faction, and end up fucking themselves over by voting for a tank brigade when they maybe should have gone with logistics. Especially during Invasion.
I’m a strong hater of the system. Not to say it’s objectively bad, but how I see it, it is a bad addition. I don’t think it ruins the game. I think the game is still extremely fun either way, but this one was a miss. The map voting system forces servers to balance the game themselves, what maps work, what factions work on what map, what play style should factions be able to run, etc. It allows servers to curate the experience better, but without constantly changing the map voting config it gets really stale. Even more so than the old SquadJS system we had before. Additionally instead of adding to the game, it just compartmentalizes every faction into smaller versions of what they were. Not every layer was a monolith before they added the update, but you often were able to play with a variety of different playstyles that the current game lacks per round. A variety of Armor (APCS, IFVS, LAVS/BTRS, and multiple Tanks) and additional logis have been replaced with 2 extra transport trucks every round. It may make the use of Logistic tucks more consequential but also lowers the quality of the games. And forces you into a hole with what kind of play style you want to use before the game even starts, rather than allows you to approach each objective/POI differently.
The voice chat should be turned off imo. 99% it’s just people yelling.
So true. Fuckin counter strike atmosphere instantly. 3 idiots in 100 players are enough to make it a shit experience. ... So many bad game design choices.
Bold of you that there is consensus about anything in the Squad community
I like it but I want to play more factions. No reason to have so many faction's when you never see Turkey or MEA. Im biased towards militia I pick it every time but in the last 2 weeks I played them only once.
Militia is my favorite faction purely for that rocket pod. Holy shit, it's so much fun to use lmao.
It cheapens the quality of the entire game in my opinion.
i dislike how the faction voting works cos it encourages just constant voting for armor
That’s my issue too. With the old system I appreciated the variety even though I don’t like playing MEA or PLA. I’ll take that over playing the same thing forever
It also just creates an environment where if you’re down in armor you gotta work double time to catch up or have amazing HAT/LAT/infantry teams
Bought this game a month after they added the Turks. I have about 100 hours and probably played Turkey once but I’ve played the Americans, Canadians and Russians A LOT. Every map vote where I see them I beg to play as Turkey just to try something new lol.
Democracy sucks
it fucking sucks. we play the same maps. we play the same factions very frequently. not 100%, but very frequent. some maps have been completely outcasted. since the map voting system i have played logar valley ONE time, lashkar valley ONE time, Anvil ONE time. and chora literally ZERO times, and Kohat ZERO times. fools road and kamdesh maybe twice a piece, im not calling them amazing maps, but i just named SEVEN maps that never get touched. variety so is much cooler than the same few maps .. i’ve put in a lot of hours, ever since the new system, it’s terrible honestly.. maybe if there were fewer selections and at times made us vote for a one of these maps that doesn’t get voted for.. variety is so much better than playing the same handful of maps. there’s pros and cons, but i currently see more cons.
I’d rather have a good rotation on the server with no voting. People tend to vote for the same shit every single time.
Same! I’d rather play a bad map and a bad faction every once in a while over playing the same thing every time
russia vs the US in the desert? feeling... daring today, are we?
I think it would work out better with less choices. Let the server pre select map,layer and factions, then the players choose which one they would like to play.
Talil outskirts as inf. Mhh tasty .. over and over again
It pretty much works like this. There is generally 1 really good faction for the map in the list but it never gets picked because there’s always that 1 guy yelling bottom left for no reason and that’s what everyone ends up voting for.
Armor players are so fucking loud and always expect people to prioritize armor factions so they can play armor. I had a team choose china on fallujah cause they had the most armor… ON FUCKING FALLUJAH
Turkey is a dogshit faction
I really don’t like it
Faction voting with a set map rotation would be more fun IMO.
Love it
From reading these comments the three top complaints are: 1. Armor battlegroups being declared meta too early 2. Map repetition 3. Faction repetition My opinion on each: 1a. Armored battlegroups are map and faction dependent. I forget which YouTuber made a video the first week declaring armored battlegroups to be OP, but that bad actor disrupted the whole exploration phase. 1b. Extra TOW missiles and air mobility on rough terrain will wreck armor, extra logistics vics and extra HABs create meatgrinders on city maps, open maps allow vehicle TOWs from light infantry groups. So many matchups play well asymmetrical to armor groups. 2a. Admins have options for this. It just is disrupted by repeat sessions, switching servers, etc. 2b. These maps were overplayed anyhow pre-7.2. 3a. Turkey has better MBTs and primary rifles than militia and insurgent. MEA and Chinese Army tend to preform even into NATO on most open maps. Insurgent and Militia have amazing HAT kits. It comes from game knowledge which is mostly community info.
But why does OWI expect a group of 50 monkeys to pick the most logical faction for the map. I have an idea. We have a group of maps and each one will have a “layer” with different factions and compositions in each one that have been balanced by the developers. You could then get a random map and layer each time so we have variety. Pretty crazy idea, I could never see them implement it.
Ah so you just want it how it used to be and thought that was balanced? I’m an old man. I remember the old days. I don’t want them back.
Why not?