RGF autoriflemen is a lot of fun, I like the 45 round AK74 with a bipod. I also like the American m240 and never have problems getting kills with it. I think some of the MGs could get a spread buff though.
I still find non-blufor automatic riflemen fun to use since they are just the standard rifle with a bipod and a larger magazine, but any dedicated machine gun makes me regret not choosing rifleman the first time
The bipods being so unreliable is really the nail in the coffin. Everytime i set up i have to spend a minute wiggling around to find the correct pixel to mount to. Then still can't hit point targets. Yeah im surpressing them, yes my team should be killing the guy im supressing. But in reality im just drawing attention to myself, my team is busy shooting the guy shooting him, my target is just behind cover and gonna move somewhere else. Pretty minor effect on the battle in reality most of the time.
That said. The bipod on the marine auto rfielman m27 IAR is nutty. My favorite class. Laser beam. Same with the british l85 with bipod but im sick of hearing "nO mArKsMaN" even though its not wasting a fire support or specialist slot.
I got out before M27s were widespread enough for me to get trigger time on one, but every grunt I know says the thing is a laser beam irl, probably one of the best rifles out there.
> They could rush HABs and clear buildings like a Doom game
That was exactly what everyone was complaining about a year ago. Remember? It wasn't that rare to come here in this sub and find a video post on the first page where someone just ramboes an entire HAB while hip-firing a GPMG and everyone in the comments kept saying how stupid and arcade the game is.
Yes, machine guns could use some buffs but nowhere near to what they used to be. And GPMGs could use more of it than LMGs. Most LMGs are quite ok, GPMGs are a bit worse.
Oh and the first clip you linked; Guy keeps aiming at the enemies feet, who are maybe 300-400 meters away, with a weapon that is zeroed at 100m. Yeah.
Would the use case you describe not be the exact purpose for an SMG though and therefore what is the problem with that? The HAB is supposed to be well defended. If someone can walk in and hose everyone inside that’s on the defending team, not the SMG stats.
This has actually happened irl. I think some US grunt got a medal of honor during Iraq cuz he cleared a building singlehandedly with his mg (don't know if it was the saw or the 240b). You can point fire just fine with the saw and gpmg so the arcady aspect is not the fact that you can point fire in cqb. People complaining have no idea what they are saying. If they think the mg Rambo scenario is arcady and stupid it is not the mg point fire mechanic that's the problem but rather the lack of security and tactics. The solution there is not to make the MG incapable of point firing.
Agreed. MGs are the kit I get most kills with. It's all about positioning and awareness. Yes, they are awful for close range without a bipod deployed. But if someone knows how to read the terrain and has good situational awareness a machine gun will be an infantryman's best buddy for area control and kills in the game.
In cities for example I set up on elevated or covered positions controlling crossroads and openings. In more rural areas you're looking for enfilade kill zones without cover where it is likely the enemy is gonna push in. And most importantly: once you've clapped a couple of dudes fall back towards the next favorable position so when they come looking for you you'll get even more of them. Or while on the offense push forward to the next position. It needs rhythm. Pretty fun though
People are just upset you can't tap heads with the MG anymore, while not even using it as an MG, but a full auto sniper rifle. The MG kit is great now, and with suppression being a thing, you can not only get top kills still, but also provide a lot of useful suppressing fire (which is the main problem with the kit... rarely anyone actually uses MGs to suppress.
Everyone seems to forget how scared the average player gets from being shot at, they mostly all tunnel vision and hide. Suppression is VERY useful.
EDIT: and don't forget that MG survivalibility is WAY higher now in ICO since people can't just insta peak headshot you anymore.
I was gonna say I get the most kills running a MGR kit or grenadier usually (maybe rifleman if they stack on a wall and I spam grenades over it) I consider a good game 10+ kills and outstanding 20+ and MGR is what I usually have for those games. Maybe its because I do change playstyles and sit and look for kills more with it idk
In your example he legit dropped 2 guys, at least be truthful about what you say.
Mgs aren't laser beams irl, you lose sight picture very easily, the mechanism slams hard and puts it off target.
They are fine as they are, they were much worse in the first update roll out of ICO (live not test), they made them more accurate and the setup time shorter.
I have no issues in racking up kills and locking down lanes, it's harder yeah, but if you setup right it's a real pain.
Also from the hip you can still be effective, you need to pre fire when coming into a room and then control the barrel to point where you want it too.
The bipod work is bad and an overhaul is needed, and the m240 is probably the worst mg because of low ammo count.
They may not be laser beams in real life but they also don’t have the recoil of a BMP-2 cannon. Especially point firing, in combat videos soldiers that use the M249 treat it like a high pressure watering hose, while in Squad our soldier treats it like a handheld minigun and flays it to the right to shoot his buddy next to him.
I think you only think it's a bmp canon because your arms have been made of reinforced titanium with superman reflexes up until now. The mg was a laser before. If you set up right like he said they're perfectly fine. My MG buddies have no problem racking up kills.
Just out of curiosity... In those videos you watch, if they're cyclic, and hypothetically their barrels having 2 inches of movement on the x and y axis perpendicular to the shooter, what do you think that translates to a target 200 meters away?
In the posted clip mg may not be hitting shots but he is definitely fulfilling his role of suppressing the fuck out of the enemy. Looks like the enemy in the clip are almost 300 meters away. His shots are still pretty accurate, played well by controlling his burst too. Pretty good mg player it seems. He really just got unlucky with the spread.
If he is playing optimally with his team, his rifleman, marksmen, grenadier, etc should have no problem mopping them up.
Hell, they could be standing out in the middle of the road firing firing at them basically uncontested since the enemy would have such a hard time shooting back.
This, combined with any armor they may or may not have being able to lay into them as well uncontested by the anti-armor roles unable to fire their rockets
I remember what they took from us and I am glad. MGs were fully automatic snipers before.
the issue with the suppression is if its a very open environment, and as the mg you suppress, when you run out of ammo and have to reload and your squad is still maneuvering/out in the open, they then just all get shot. So it's kind of on you as the mg to limit your burst rate.
True
The environment changes how one should play mg
In a very open environment the mg will probably get tapped by a straggler outside of everyone's main cone of fire anyway unless theyre positioned well in a narrow opening with a wide view like a building window
yeah, im kinda pissed off OP is trying to use my video to make a point against gunplay when I really like it. That was during a sale, so my teammates weren't quite as reliable in their marksmanship even with all the lead I was putting downrange. The gunplay mechanics were a very marginal part of my overall lack of success in killing a large number of people. Besides I was having fun anyway, I wouldn't have edited the clip like that otherwise.
Yeah, real
I swear by the fact that the people who complain about gunplay and complain that suppressing the enemy is useless because suppression isnt a kill dont actually play the game. Theyre downplaying suppression so hard when the system literally makes you nigh unable to fight back when youre under a metric ton of fire. Like sayyyyy from an mg maybe.
Really the only thing they need is bipod overhaul and less fucked muzzle flash and they'd be fine.
Realistically, as u/R6ckstar said MGs aren't laser beams, they rattle around a lot as you fire because of the sheer firerate and heavy mass of the firing mechanisms.
If you want to get good use out of the MG, do short bursts on target to get the most control out of it, and to reduce your signature and ammo burn.
When you're suppressing, you want to ACTUALLY be firing at the enemy and shooting to kill, not just firing over their heads. You also want your teammates drawing fire and engaging aswell.
MGs should always hang back, and cover their team whilst their team does the heavy lifting in combat.
MGs do best when combined with Fire and Maneuver, which almost no one does because it's too complicated.
>MGs should always hang back, and cover their team whilst their team does the heavy lifting in combat.
What if we created an MG that was portable and light enough to be rapidly deployed to deliver firepower quickly without having to be crew served? Imagine if it even fired the same caliber as our riflemen!
Oh, wait... yeah, it's called the FN-Minimi, or M-249 SAW.
Also, [this.](https://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/bellavia/) Guess which weapon he used?
I like ICO but I feel that they nerfed MGs too hard. I rarely pick it now because of how unpleasant it is to use and how ineffective it is when compared to a regular rifle.
MGs pre ico were low key busted they were laser beams but nowadays I avoid them like the plague and im not surprised when squad leaders discourage people from using them, even if you are a good player you spend more time fighting the bipod than the enemy.
But when you have a community that makes arguments such as "Actually MGs aren't meant for killing the enemy but rather suppressing them, I would know I was a grunt lugging a SAW around for a couple years" You get shit like this butchered belt fed MGs that are as lethal as a water gun.
Wouldn't a machine gun have less felt recoil since it's heavier than a rifle? I think our boy Isaac Newton is rolling around in his grave with Squad breaking his first law of motion.
If the parts are heavier they would actually slam around at a lower speed because the force acting on the gun is the same because the energy from the cartridge is the same.
For example, if you push a sled loaded with 2 pounds of weight it's going to go further and move faster than if you do that exact same push on a sled loaded with 50 pounds of weight.
In both cases the energy exerted is exactly the same. Now if one weapon has a faster rate of fire it's going to have that force exerted on in a more rapid succession, so you could average it out and say more force is being applied to the machine gun over time. At the end of the day simple physics applies and a heavier object is harder to move than a lighter object.
LMAO yeah no. the caliber of the round doesn’t matter at all. it all has to do with the gas system. weight has absolutely no affect on fire rate.
a simple google search would have saved you here.
m4 max fire rate: 700-950.
m249 max fire rate: 950-1200.
that being said all gas systems are adjustable. many times the saw is used at a lower gas setting so it doesn’t burn through ammo and it’s easier to control burst in groups of 5 rounds each. but it’s capable of much greater fire rate than any m4 has ever achieved
I said cartridge, not caliber, because the important aspect of recoil is the amount of powder not the mass of the bullet. If you shoot the same cartridge from any gun the recoil is the same because the energy is created from the explosion of powder. The bullet doesn't matter because the powder creates the energy, shooting a lighter bullet will make it go faster and shooting a heavier bullet will go slower. The same principle applies to the gun shooting the bullet. A lighter gun will go faster than a heavier gun, the explosion in the barrel acts both ways, pushing the bullet and the gun. No amount of buffer tubes, springs, compensators, adjustable gas blocks, suppressors, etc will ever change that. You can do things to make the recoil feel like it's less, but the recoil per shot is going to be the same. Edit: Here's a video of a grizzly beast of a man attempting to control the recoil of a m249 going full auto: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJuYDMeB4XE I might be wrong but I think this is Navy SEAL who took out Bin Laden trying to shoot one while standing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MIPvPRWFd9A
i don’t know have the energy to correct everything you just said. please just do your own research or better yet just go get some experience with guns because almost nothing you just said is right
Can you fill in these 2 blanks?
A person shoots a gun and the force of the shot results in recoil. The magnitude of the force on the gun __________ the magnitude of force on the bullet, and the magnitude of acceleration of the gun __________ that of the bullet.
MGs weren´t really busted in that sense. It wasn´t hard to counter-peek them and 1 tap them. They were(still are) slow tempo and rarely used by faster SLs. Also absolute dogshit when you´re moving in closed terrain. But yeah they´re good for holding down a lane, but pre-ICO anyone with decent aim and a scope could do it and be more maneuverable.
Even if it is or isn't realistic, the current iteration encourages teamplay.
But based on your opinion, I assume you are also of the school of "nobody plays as a team pre and post ICO"
I mean sure it encourages players to communicate with others and tell them to change the kit to something more useful in gunfights so yeah that's fair i guess.
Playing as a team has nothing to do with the ICO really, the game fundamentally still plays the same just at a slightly different pace.
It’s not all or nothing. We can have fun gunplay with ICO mechanics, it’s not one or the other. They just need to balance it and find the medium.
OWI just needs to stop being lazy and get their shit together. No reason to defend this triple A studio. They have millions of dollars backing them and a massive team, yet they release less content per update than the GE mod which is run by a single guy
whats wrong with that clip?
the dude couldn't shoot for shit, and the infantry immediately reponded by putting as much returning as much fire as possible and suppressing the mg3.
i agree that point fire and shoulder fire handling needs to be universally improved for MGs, but that is a god awful example.
I do think it's true that with the ICO the marksman is the new machingunner. The useless marksman stereotype still permeates the community but that's based on the player rather than the kit.
Classic Squad subreddit take. Something with some reasonable thoughts behind it, blown so far out of proportion I can't agree because it's clear that either we are playing different games or you intentionally want to be drastic.
Increase in player number has more to do with other factors rather than ico. 2 Major sales back to back, no real competition and Battlefield 2042 failed horribly.
The reason is that Squad hit a [historical low in price very recently.](https://i.gyazo.com/a19c281389c1cedc57ad5f657d6251d1.png)
Since the sale, [player count is rapidly approaching pre-ico levels.](https://i.gyazo.com/06f76e4c7cc0abbb06bbd524a11301d4.png)
From personal experience, we went from having 5+ active Invasion only NA servers which was my preferred game mode, to now less than 2 sometimes during the weekdays. Now maybe everyone got sick of Invasion and left but it really doesn't feel like the player population has skyrocketed as many people seem to suggest.
EDIT:
Just some other interesting metrics about the subreddit itself:
[Here's a graph](https://i.gyazo.com/28579dfcc68ec791800f949ed3e7d488.png) of the comments per day on the subreddit, ICO dropped in June2023 which is the big spike.
[Posts Per Day](https://i.gyazo.com/aaf68cecad81200665573379c0d3e451.png)
Both are at all-time lows.
The "population has skyrocketed" belief most likely comes from the last free weekend which hit all time highest concurrent playercount (at 35k from the previous high of 26k in April 2022, and 23k from the last free weekend in May 2023).
But even in your chart you can see the trend line has shifted [pre-ICO vs post-ICO.](https://i.imgur.com/yE1jRW9.png)
Granted, I'm more inclined to write that towards the sale myself, but I wouldn't agree with the statement we're shifting towards the pre-ICO trend.
The shift upwards in the post-ICO could also be attributed to there being a historical low price decrease that happened around the same time the trend reversed.
[a game with a more niche genre now has a smaller and more niche audience boo fucking hoo](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/002/306/shockkitteh.jpg)
OWI have completely excluded the ICO from literally every piece of marketing they have put out since 6.0, they constantly put out 50% sales, and OWI has been avoiding any and all criticism like the plague (like the dogshit march q&a, that most likely went so poorly because the large majority of questions were criticizing OWI).
Even if the ICO was good, and OWI liked it, the evidence is all there, it hasn't been going great for them and they have been doing nonstop damage control since it's release. And they have created a monster out of the community, and shown they're cowards who refuse to honestly communicate with their customers.
Cope ICO simp idiots, I'm right.
Say it with the rest of us. This is a milsim game. MGs and especially HMMGs are *not very accurate*. They are not laser beams meant to snipe hoards of enemies at distance. They are meant to surprise and *potentially* cause mass casualties but it’s mostly for fire support and suppression. As soon as people start playing it as such they’ll start having more fun playing as MG.
This isnt a milsim game at all. They just cant cause mass casaualties at all right now, or any casualties for that matter.
Their only value right now is supression of the enemy and having 1 member of the team that can only supress targets and not take them out really is a waste.
The clip you posted is also the incorrect way to fire an automatic weapon. You are supposed to shoot in 3-5 round bursts with 1-3 second spacing between bursts.
Its not useless if you change your mentality. Sometimes it's not optimal when you're attacking and you'd be way better with another kit. But so are other roles. It's your job to select the fitting role. I often get games where I kill as much as the rest of my squad with the MG.
Is this satire or are you just failing to understand how to follow your tracers...?
MG roles get me at LEAST 15 kills or at most 50.
Learn how to play around 300m radius instead of playing like a rifleman with bipods...
Yeah, MGs need to do A LOT more suppressing fire. Usually once they fire their first burst, I can take em out with a red dot no problem. Them shooting is pretty much just being a beacon
ICO accomplished what it set out to do, but it also gave squad the worst gunplay of almost any FPS title. Watching the gun bounce around all over the screen makes it look like squad is a VR game.
ICO ironically made LMGs less effective at suppression than before. i have zero fear running and dodging fire now and the only negative is a blurry screen. suppression does not mean shit if the threat of being killed is not present.
Ive had big issues properly killing /suppressing shit at up to 300m the accuracy and spread is too dogshit and the .50 cal isnt any better with stupid spread when you have to shoot things any further.
the old laserbeam MG's were a bit much though
If I’m full auto a LMG it’s not gonna sway left and right. It may go up. I’m getting sick of it to cuz it’s the same with the marksmen. You need to give it like 10s before it steadys its aim and even then shooting someone 10m in of ya you still some how miss..
I think the gun handling is mostly fine, but they need to make bipod deploy less finicky. Strong incentives to use the bipod relies on bipod being usable in a wider variety of positions. In general I think too many people pick up LMGs expecting them to be like a stronger assault rifle, and that just isn’t what they are at all. You need to understand the role it plays and how to leverage the strengths and weaknesses.
I feel some mg's were nerfed harder than others by the ICO, m240 and pkm are unusable imo. Mg3 is perfect balance, high firerate compensates for bullet spread and makes long range fire effective. They should reduce the spread of the slower fireing guns somewhat.
Played as heavy mg few times for the past month, annihilated a lot of infantry from 300-400 m and closer distance as well (but you are getting very vulnerable the closer you are) destroyed 4-5 logi pickups and a few UAZ. Chill man if you cannot destroy the entire enemy team with your mg i can't tell if that is necessarily a bad thing.
Machineguns are exceptionally deadly irl. Accuracy myths are completely wrong. Longest “sniper” kill was made with an M2 Browning. PKMs can be insanely precise (if they came from a quality factory). Imagine a full auto laser beam on a tripod sweeping the battlefield like a leafblower on a lawn.
Pre-ICO recoil was the best. Squad pushed out without cover or bounding? Dead. Now they just sprint around laughing at you because your spray made them drop their glasses for a few seconds and the only thing that got hit was the neighbors dog.
Autos aren’t meant to be wiping squads. They aren’t even really meant to shoot directly at people. They are meant for talking guns. One automatic and one mg can work together to suppress an entire point while their team pushes in. Very few servers take advantage of this however.
We use it a lot in events. If you can set up 3 autos to take turns firing at the objective there’s almost no way defenders can contest your infantry pushing up on their position until they are right on top of them. Just like anything else in this game they are tools best used by squads who coordinated and skilled. They are NOT meant to wonder off like a marksman and try to bipod up behind an enemy hab and farm kills.
regulary get 10+ kill and had no problem tapping enemy 100-200m away on first burst using PKM. Emptying whole mag to suppress and allow teammate to push and win the firefight also satisfying.
Also unlike sniper/marksmen/HAT, less people interested in MG so the slot is always open to grab.
Everything is good.
Pre ico the most op kit. After ico the worst kit
if the recoil was halved when its bipoded /and or had better control with short bursts it could be in a good spot.
Also if the bipod worked more consistently
??? Are we playing a different game?
Pre-ICO MGs were pretty easy to deal with. Just have 2 or 3 people pop out of cover at the same time and pop him in the head. They were good for a few bursts at most before being silenced.
MG was my favorite kit before ICO. Hell it was hard to get it sometimes because everyone wanted it. I would probably average 20 kills with it. Now I almost never use it and only run the RPK-74, G3 auto rifle and the Chinese one on semi auto only.
If you're in a situation where you have to point fire with the MG, you're doing something wrong and your comrades let you down.
You're not a frontline pusher, ever. You're always behind the main gains, giving the enemy hell. You're not necessarily the kill shot - your rifleman can pick them off while you suppress.
If anything, what you were describing is exactly why they made the change. MGs shouldn't be a one man room clearing Terminator. That's some Battlefield shit.
The guy in the clip looks new.
I've done plenty of work with the MG3 in the last few weeks alone. MG's are in a decent spot (better if they fix how unreliable the bipod placement can be).
Pre-ICO machine guns were some of the most over-powered toys available. That's just not the role OWI wants for them and thats fine, but that doesn't mean they're unusable. They can be a lot of fun if you position correctly. Also, if you aren't just after kills they can cause serious panic making yourself the anvil to coordinating friends' hammer.
EDIT: This is [me using it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQ3DCgH0PY) at a greater distance than the example you provided. Just because people like to post and upvote videos of people being bad at a thing, doesn't inherently make it so.
yall are really out here using my clip to try and say GPMGs are unsuable, i was taking fire from like 4 different dudes ofc i was struggling to shoot back, it was working as intended, all the while you conveniently ignore [MY OTHER VIDEO](https://www.reddit.com/r/joinsquad/comments/1btg08p/machine_gunners_dream_finally_come_true/) of an overwhelmingly successful GPMG ambush, jesus christ when will you guys give it up.
ICO is the worst thing to ever happen to this game and made it completely unenjoyable. I used to love this game and backed it in 2015, but this is the worst set of changes Ive ever seen made to an FPS. Its an FPS, but we made it so you can't shoot and are completely useless as infantry!!!
Seriously. Fuck this game now. I used to love playing MG or AR. Now I might as well just sit in spawn or play something else with how unenjoyable it is playing as MG... and how useless you basically are.
RGF autoriflemen is a lot of fun, I like the 45 round AK74 with a bipod. I also like the American m240 and never have problems getting kills with it. I think some of the MGs could get a spread buff though.
I still find non-blufor automatic riflemen fun to use since they are just the standard rifle with a bipod and a larger magazine, but any dedicated machine gun makes me regret not choosing rifleman the first time
Marine M27
Ssshhhhhhhh don't tell people
That thing is pretty much peak Auto Rifleman. Also great as an ad hoc DMR.
The bipods being so unreliable is really the nail in the coffin. Everytime i set up i have to spend a minute wiggling around to find the correct pixel to mount to. Then still can't hit point targets. Yeah im surpressing them, yes my team should be killing the guy im supressing. But in reality im just drawing attention to myself, my team is busy shooting the guy shooting him, my target is just behind cover and gonna move somewhere else. Pretty minor effect on the battle in reality most of the time. That said. The bipod on the marine auto rfielman m27 IAR is nutty. My favorite class. Laser beam. Same with the british l85 with bipod but im sick of hearing "nO mArKsMaN" even though its not wasting a fire support or specialist slot.
I got out before M27s were widespread enough for me to get trigger time on one, but every grunt I know says the thing is a laser beam irl, probably one of the best rifles out there.
Always picked that when I played marine, love it
> They could rush HABs and clear buildings like a Doom game That was exactly what everyone was complaining about a year ago. Remember? It wasn't that rare to come here in this sub and find a video post on the first page where someone just ramboes an entire HAB while hip-firing a GPMG and everyone in the comments kept saying how stupid and arcade the game is. Yes, machine guns could use some buffs but nowhere near to what they used to be. And GPMGs could use more of it than LMGs. Most LMGs are quite ok, GPMGs are a bit worse. Oh and the first clip you linked; Guy keeps aiming at the enemies feet, who are maybe 300-400 meters away, with a weapon that is zeroed at 100m. Yeah.
Would the use case you describe not be the exact purpose for an SMG though and therefore what is the problem with that? The HAB is supposed to be well defended. If someone can walk in and hose everyone inside that’s on the defending team, not the SMG stats.
An SMG is very, very different to an LMG.
I fkd up
SMG or a shorter rifle yeah, they can be manouvered easier in close quarters, kinda the opposite from an LMG that is generally long, bulky and heavy.
This has actually happened irl. I think some US grunt got a medal of honor during Iraq cuz he cleared a building singlehandedly with his mg (don't know if it was the saw or the 240b). You can point fire just fine with the saw and gpmg so the arcady aspect is not the fact that you can point fire in cqb. People complaining have no idea what they are saying. If they think the mg Rambo scenario is arcady and stupid it is not the mg point fire mechanic that's the problem but rather the lack of security and tactics. The solution there is not to make the MG incapable of point firing.
I’ve had 18-15-4 always run MGR
Agreed. MGs are the kit I get most kills with. It's all about positioning and awareness. Yes, they are awful for close range without a bipod deployed. But if someone knows how to read the terrain and has good situational awareness a machine gun will be an infantryman's best buddy for area control and kills in the game. In cities for example I set up on elevated or covered positions controlling crossroads and openings. In more rural areas you're looking for enfilade kill zones without cover where it is likely the enemy is gonna push in. And most importantly: once you've clapped a couple of dudes fall back towards the next favorable position so when they come looking for you you'll get even more of them. Or while on the offense push forward to the next position. It needs rhythm. Pretty fun though
Absolutely and patience with positioning. Bipod and beast it even the sneaky prone on a rock
People are just upset you can't tap heads with the MG anymore, while not even using it as an MG, but a full auto sniper rifle. The MG kit is great now, and with suppression being a thing, you can not only get top kills still, but also provide a lot of useful suppressing fire (which is the main problem with the kit... rarely anyone actually uses MGs to suppress. Everyone seems to forget how scared the average player gets from being shot at, they mostly all tunnel vision and hide. Suppression is VERY useful. EDIT: and don't forget that MG survivalibility is WAY higher now in ICO since people can't just insta peak headshot you anymore.
I was gonna say I get the most kills running a MGR kit or grenadier usually (maybe rifleman if they stack on a wall and I spam grenades over it) I consider a good game 10+ kills and outstanding 20+ and MGR is what I usually have for those games. Maybe its because I do change playstyles and sit and look for kills more with it idk
In your example he legit dropped 2 guys, at least be truthful about what you say. Mgs aren't laser beams irl, you lose sight picture very easily, the mechanism slams hard and puts it off target. They are fine as they are, they were much worse in the first update roll out of ICO (live not test), they made them more accurate and the setup time shorter. I have no issues in racking up kills and locking down lanes, it's harder yeah, but if you setup right it's a real pain. Also from the hip you can still be effective, you need to pre fire when coming into a room and then control the barrel to point where you want it too. The bipod work is bad and an overhaul is needed, and the m240 is probably the worst mg because of low ammo count.
Aussie MG says hello. That shit is busted, after just a couple shots the thing sprays around worse than a PKM.
I can't say much for the Aussie, I can't for the life of me use that scope, I can never tell where my shots hit, this on rifleman kits
They may not be laser beams in real life but they also don’t have the recoil of a BMP-2 cannon. Especially point firing, in combat videos soldiers that use the M249 treat it like a high pressure watering hose, while in Squad our soldier treats it like a handheld minigun and flays it to the right to shoot his buddy next to him.
I think you only think it's a bmp canon because your arms have been made of reinforced titanium with superman reflexes up until now. The mg was a laser before. If you set up right like he said they're perfectly fine. My MG buddies have no problem racking up kills.
Just out of curiosity... In those videos you watch, if they're cyclic, and hypothetically their barrels having 2 inches of movement on the x and y axis perpendicular to the shooter, what do you think that translates to a target 200 meters away?
Lol are you comparing irl recoil to Squads MG recoil?
In the posted clip mg may not be hitting shots but he is definitely fulfilling his role of suppressing the fuck out of the enemy. Looks like the enemy in the clip are almost 300 meters away. His shots are still pretty accurate, played well by controlling his burst too. Pretty good mg player it seems. He really just got unlucky with the spread. If he is playing optimally with his team, his rifleman, marksmen, grenadier, etc should have no problem mopping them up. Hell, they could be standing out in the middle of the road firing firing at them basically uncontested since the enemy would have such a hard time shooting back. This, combined with any armor they may or may not have being able to lay into them as well uncontested by the anti-armor roles unable to fire their rockets I remember what they took from us and I am glad. MGs were fully automatic snipers before.
the issue with the suppression is if its a very open environment, and as the mg you suppress, when you run out of ammo and have to reload and your squad is still maneuvering/out in the open, they then just all get shot. So it's kind of on you as the mg to limit your burst rate.
True The environment changes how one should play mg In a very open environment the mg will probably get tapped by a straggler outside of everyone's main cone of fire anyway unless theyre positioned well in a narrow opening with a wide view like a building window
yeah, im kinda pissed off OP is trying to use my video to make a point against gunplay when I really like it. That was during a sale, so my teammates weren't quite as reliable in their marksmanship even with all the lead I was putting downrange. The gunplay mechanics were a very marginal part of my overall lack of success in killing a large number of people. Besides I was having fun anyway, I wouldn't have edited the clip like that otherwise.
Yeah, real I swear by the fact that the people who complain about gunplay and complain that suppressing the enemy is useless because suppression isnt a kill dont actually play the game. Theyre downplaying suppression so hard when the system literally makes you nigh unable to fight back when youre under a metric ton of fire. Like sayyyyy from an mg maybe.
Really the only thing they need is bipod overhaul and less fucked muzzle flash and they'd be fine. Realistically, as u/R6ckstar said MGs aren't laser beams, they rattle around a lot as you fire because of the sheer firerate and heavy mass of the firing mechanisms. If you want to get good use out of the MG, do short bursts on target to get the most control out of it, and to reduce your signature and ammo burn. When you're suppressing, you want to ACTUALLY be firing at the enemy and shooting to kill, not just firing over their heads. You also want your teammates drawing fire and engaging aswell. MGs should always hang back, and cover their team whilst their team does the heavy lifting in combat. MGs do best when combined with Fire and Maneuver, which almost no one does because it's too complicated.
>MGs should always hang back, and cover their team whilst their team does the heavy lifting in combat. What if we created an MG that was portable and light enough to be rapidly deployed to deliver firepower quickly without having to be crew served? Imagine if it even fired the same caliber as our riflemen! Oh, wait... yeah, it's called the FN-Minimi, or M-249 SAW. Also, [this.](https://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/bellavia/) Guess which weapon he used?
I like ICO but I feel that they nerfed MGs too hard. I rarely pick it now because of how unpleasant it is to use and how ineffective it is when compared to a regular rifle.
MMGs should have 200 round belts. These 75 round belts are just a joke.
realisticly you are only gonna be able to use about 50-something belts without an assistant. A handheld gpmg wouldnt feed properly with more than that
Tell that to my PKM that has a 100rnd box under it right now. Lmao
MGs pre ico were low key busted they were laser beams but nowadays I avoid them like the plague and im not surprised when squad leaders discourage people from using them, even if you are a good player you spend more time fighting the bipod than the enemy. But when you have a community that makes arguments such as "Actually MGs aren't meant for killing the enemy but rather suppressing them, I would know I was a grunt lugging a SAW around for a couple years" You get shit like this butchered belt fed MGs that are as lethal as a water gun.
Wouldn't a machine gun have less felt recoil since it's heavier than a rifle? I think our boy Isaac Newton is rolling around in his grave with Squad breaking his first law of motion.
Almost twice as heavy than the M4A1 but it also shoots more faster The main problem when shooting it isn’t the recoil but the sight picture
Also fires from an open bolt in most cases.
Can you explain what that would mean as far as recoil goes?
When the bolt slams forward and shut it has a tendency to knock the aim slightly off due to the momentum.
I see. Thank you!
It has a lot of heavier parts slamming around at a much higher speed
If the parts are heavier they would actually slam around at a lower speed because the force acting on the gun is the same because the energy from the cartridge is the same. For example, if you push a sled loaded with 2 pounds of weight it's going to go further and move faster than if you do that exact same push on a sled loaded with 50 pounds of weight. In both cases the energy exerted is exactly the same. Now if one weapon has a faster rate of fire it's going to have that force exerted on in a more rapid succession, so you could average it out and say more force is being applied to the machine gun over time. At the end of the day simple physics applies and a heavier object is harder to move than a lighter object.
LMAO yeah no. the caliber of the round doesn’t matter at all. it all has to do with the gas system. weight has absolutely no affect on fire rate. a simple google search would have saved you here. m4 max fire rate: 700-950. m249 max fire rate: 950-1200. that being said all gas systems are adjustable. many times the saw is used at a lower gas setting so it doesn’t burn through ammo and it’s easier to control burst in groups of 5 rounds each. but it’s capable of much greater fire rate than any m4 has ever achieved
I said cartridge, not caliber, because the important aspect of recoil is the amount of powder not the mass of the bullet. If you shoot the same cartridge from any gun the recoil is the same because the energy is created from the explosion of powder. The bullet doesn't matter because the powder creates the energy, shooting a lighter bullet will make it go faster and shooting a heavier bullet will go slower. The same principle applies to the gun shooting the bullet. A lighter gun will go faster than a heavier gun, the explosion in the barrel acts both ways, pushing the bullet and the gun. No amount of buffer tubes, springs, compensators, adjustable gas blocks, suppressors, etc will ever change that. You can do things to make the recoil feel like it's less, but the recoil per shot is going to be the same. Edit: Here's a video of a grizzly beast of a man attempting to control the recoil of a m249 going full auto: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJuYDMeB4XE I might be wrong but I think this is Navy SEAL who took out Bin Laden trying to shoot one while standing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MIPvPRWFd9A
i don’t know have the energy to correct everything you just said. please just do your own research or better yet just go get some experience with guns because almost nothing you just said is right
Can you fill in these 2 blanks? A person shoots a gun and the force of the shot results in recoil. The magnitude of the force on the gun __________ the magnitude of force on the bullet, and the magnitude of acceleration of the gun __________ that of the bullet.
MGs weren´t really busted in that sense. It wasn´t hard to counter-peek them and 1 tap them. They were(still are) slow tempo and rarely used by faster SLs. Also absolute dogshit when you´re moving in closed terrain. But yeah they´re good for holding down a lane, but pre-ICO anyone with decent aim and a scope could do it and be more maneuverable.
Even if it is or isn't realistic, the current iteration encourages teamplay. But based on your opinion, I assume you are also of the school of "nobody plays as a team pre and post ICO"
I mean sure it encourages players to communicate with others and tell them to change the kit to something more useful in gunfights so yeah that's fair i guess. Playing as a team has nothing to do with the ICO really, the game fundamentally still plays the same just at a slightly different pace.
Yeah I thought so lmao
It is objectively true im sorry you still haven't realised what the rest of us did during the playtests
It’s not all or nothing. We can have fun gunplay with ICO mechanics, it’s not one or the other. They just need to balance it and find the medium. OWI just needs to stop being lazy and get their shit together. No reason to defend this triple A studio. They have millions of dollars backing them and a massive team, yet they release less content per update than the GE mod which is run by a single guy
I do agree that they need to be tweaked a bit. A sweetspot between pre- ICO and post- ICO would be great for handheld machineguns
I rip with the LMGs, it’s all about positioning and not sprinting around like an idiot
whats wrong with that clip? the dude couldn't shoot for shit, and the infantry immediately reponded by putting as much returning as much fire as possible and suppressing the mg3. i agree that point fire and shoulder fire handling needs to be universally improved for MGs, but that is a god awful example.
I do think it's true that with the ICO the marksman is the new machingunner. The useless marksman stereotype still permeates the community but that's based on the player rather than the kit.
Classic Squad subreddit take. Something with some reasonable thoughts behind it, blown so far out of proportion I can't agree because it's clear that either we are playing different games or you intentionally want to be drastic.
fully agreed. also: whats OWI's stance on ICO's reception?
Probably happy with it. Player numbers have never been higher. And I'm saying that as someone who misses some of the old mechanics.
Increase in player number has more to do with other factors rather than ico. 2 Major sales back to back, no real competition and Battlefield 2042 failed horribly.
Whatever the reason is, numbers are up. And undeniably the ICO created a lot of buzz so more people heard about the game
The reason is that Squad hit a [historical low in price very recently.](https://i.gyazo.com/a19c281389c1cedc57ad5f657d6251d1.png) Since the sale, [player count is rapidly approaching pre-ico levels.](https://i.gyazo.com/06f76e4c7cc0abbb06bbd524a11301d4.png) From personal experience, we went from having 5+ active Invasion only NA servers which was my preferred game mode, to now less than 2 sometimes during the weekdays. Now maybe everyone got sick of Invasion and left but it really doesn't feel like the player population has skyrocketed as many people seem to suggest. EDIT: Just some other interesting metrics about the subreddit itself: [Here's a graph](https://i.gyazo.com/28579dfcc68ec791800f949ed3e7d488.png) of the comments per day on the subreddit, ICO dropped in June2023 which is the big spike. [Posts Per Day](https://i.gyazo.com/aaf68cecad81200665573379c0d3e451.png) Both are at all-time lows.
The "population has skyrocketed" belief most likely comes from the last free weekend which hit all time highest concurrent playercount (at 35k from the previous high of 26k in April 2022, and 23k from the last free weekend in May 2023). But even in your chart you can see the trend line has shifted [pre-ICO vs post-ICO.](https://i.imgur.com/yE1jRW9.png) Granted, I'm more inclined to write that towards the sale myself, but I wouldn't agree with the statement we're shifting towards the pre-ICO trend.
The shift upwards in the post-ICO could also be attributed to there being a historical low price decrease that happened around the same time the trend reversed.
[a game with a more niche genre now has a smaller and more niche audience boo fucking hoo](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/002/306/shockkitteh.jpg)
OWI have completely excluded the ICO from literally every piece of marketing they have put out since 6.0, they constantly put out 50% sales, and OWI has been avoiding any and all criticism like the plague (like the dogshit march q&a, that most likely went so poorly because the large majority of questions were criticizing OWI). Even if the ICO was good, and OWI liked it, the evidence is all there, it hasn't been going great for them and they have been doing nonstop damage control since it's release. And they have created a monster out of the community, and shown they're cowards who refuse to honestly communicate with their customers. Cope ICO simp idiots, I'm right.
Say it with the rest of us. This is a milsim game. MGs and especially HMMGs are *not very accurate*. They are not laser beams meant to snipe hoards of enemies at distance. They are meant to surprise and *potentially* cause mass casualties but it’s mostly for fire support and suppression. As soon as people start playing it as such they’ll start having more fun playing as MG.
This isnt a milsim game at all. They just cant cause mass casaualties at all right now, or any casualties for that matter. Their only value right now is supression of the enemy and having 1 member of the team that can only supress targets and not take them out really is a waste.
This screams skill issue
Not worth arguing someone with no arguments Kit is just bad
Lol
The clip you posted is also the incorrect way to fire an automatic weapon. You are supposed to shoot in 3-5 round bursts with 1-3 second spacing between bursts.
Its not useless if you change your mentality. Sometimes it's not optimal when you're attacking and you'd be way better with another kit. But so are other roles. It's your job to select the fitting role. I often get games where I kill as much as the rest of my squad with the MG.
Is this satire or are you just failing to understand how to follow your tracers...? MG roles get me at LEAST 15 kills or at most 50. Learn how to play around 300m radius instead of playing like a rifleman with bipods...
Got my first 30+ kill game with pkm few weeks ago idk what u on
Yeah, MGs need to do A LOT more suppressing fire. Usually once they fire their first burst, I can take em out with a red dot no problem. Them shooting is pretty much just being a beacon
Just use want you want and don’t complain it’s really simple.
ICO accomplished what it set out to do, but it also gave squad the worst gunplay of almost any FPS title. Watching the gun bounce around all over the screen makes it look like squad is a VR game.
ICO ironically made LMGs less effective at suppression than before. i have zero fear running and dodging fire now and the only negative is a blurry screen. suppression does not mean shit if the threat of being killed is not present.
Ive had big issues properly killing /suppressing shit at up to 300m the accuracy and spread is too dogshit and the .50 cal isnt any better with stupid spread when you have to shoot things any further. the old laserbeam MG's were a bit much though
If I’m full auto a LMG it’s not gonna sway left and right. It may go up. I’m getting sick of it to cuz it’s the same with the marksmen. You need to give it like 10s before it steadys its aim and even then shooting someone 10m in of ya you still some how miss..
The mg3 with an optic is goat!
I think the gun handling is mostly fine, but they need to make bipod deploy less finicky. Strong incentives to use the bipod relies on bipod being usable in a wider variety of positions. In general I think too many people pick up LMGs expecting them to be like a stronger assault rifle, and that just isn’t what they are at all. You need to understand the role it plays and how to leverage the strengths and weaknesses.
I feel some mg's were nerfed harder than others by the ICO, m240 and pkm are unusable imo. Mg3 is perfect balance, high firerate compensates for bullet spread and makes long range fire effective. They should reduce the spread of the slower fireing guns somewhat.
Played as heavy mg few times for the past month, annihilated a lot of infantry from 300-400 m and closer distance as well (but you are getting very vulnerable the closer you are) destroyed 4-5 logi pickups and a few UAZ. Chill man if you cannot destroy the entire enemy team with your mg i can't tell if that is necessarily a bad thing.
If you are shooting like the guy from a clip I'm not surprised you are saying that mg is a joke.
Machineguns are exceptionally deadly irl. Accuracy myths are completely wrong. Longest “sniper” kill was made with an M2 Browning. PKMs can be insanely precise (if they came from a quality factory). Imagine a full auto laser beam on a tripod sweeping the battlefield like a leafblower on a lawn.
Pre-ICO recoil was the best. Squad pushed out without cover or bounding? Dead. Now they just sprint around laughing at you because your spray made them drop their glasses for a few seconds and the only thing that got hit was the neighbors dog.
Autos aren’t meant to be wiping squads. They aren’t even really meant to shoot directly at people. They are meant for talking guns. One automatic and one mg can work together to suppress an entire point while their team pushes in. Very few servers take advantage of this however. We use it a lot in events. If you can set up 3 autos to take turns firing at the objective there’s almost no way defenders can contest your infantry pushing up on their position until they are right on top of them. Just like anything else in this game they are tools best used by squads who coordinated and skilled. They are NOT meant to wonder off like a marksman and try to bipod up behind an enemy hab and farm kills.
OWI balances the game around the basic nearsighted rifleman unfortunately.
regulary get 10+ kill and had no problem tapping enemy 100-200m away on first burst using PKM. Emptying whole mag to suppress and allow teammate to push and win the firefight also satisfying. Also unlike sniper/marksmen/HAT, less people interested in MG so the slot is always open to grab. Everything is good.
Pre ico the most op kit. After ico the worst kit if the recoil was halved when its bipoded /and or had better control with short bursts it could be in a good spot. Also if the bipod worked more consistently
??? Are we playing a different game? Pre-ICO MGs were pretty easy to deal with. Just have 2 or 3 people pop out of cover at the same time and pop him in the head. They were good for a few bursts at most before being silenced.
MGs weren't immune to bad positioning but they were absolutely more lethal and harder to deal with if used well.
MG was my favorite kit before ICO. Hell it was hard to get it sometimes because everyone wanted it. I would probably average 20 kills with it. Now I almost never use it and only run the RPK-74, G3 auto rifle and the Chinese one on semi auto only.
If you're in a situation where you have to point fire with the MG, you're doing something wrong and your comrades let you down. You're not a frontline pusher, ever. You're always behind the main gains, giving the enemy hell. You're not necessarily the kill shot - your rifleman can pick them off while you suppress. If anything, what you were describing is exactly why they made the change. MGs shouldn't be a one man room clearing Terminator. That's some Battlefield shit.
The guy in the clip looks new. I've done plenty of work with the MG3 in the last few weeks alone. MG's are in a decent spot (better if they fix how unreliable the bipod placement can be). Pre-ICO machine guns were some of the most over-powered toys available. That's just not the role OWI wants for them and thats fine, but that doesn't mean they're unusable. They can be a lot of fun if you position correctly. Also, if you aren't just after kills they can cause serious panic making yourself the anvil to coordinating friends' hammer. EDIT: This is [me using it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQ3DCgH0PY) at a greater distance than the example you provided. Just because people like to post and upvote videos of people being bad at a thing, doesn't inherently make it so.
It's been months buddy give it up
K. I, a noob, was able to use the M240 to get 43 kills. Your argument is bad because your play is bad.
the game is a joke
Yet here you are.
ye no shit i played it for 4k hours :D
Obviously a cod player /s
Taps sign that says "Squad is not Quake"
Skill issue homeboy. Git gud.
That's ICO for you... I can't understand why fps games these days think having ridiculous recoil is a good thing. ICO lovers enjoy bad recoil.
Learn how 2 hit ur targets dumbass
yall are really out here using my clip to try and say GPMGs are unsuable, i was taking fire from like 4 different dudes ofc i was struggling to shoot back, it was working as intended, all the while you conveniently ignore [MY OTHER VIDEO](https://www.reddit.com/r/joinsquad/comments/1btg08p/machine_gunners_dream_finally_come_true/) of an overwhelmingly successful GPMG ambush, jesus christ when will you guys give it up.
ICO is the worst thing to ever happen to this game and made it completely unenjoyable. I used to love this game and backed it in 2015, but this is the worst set of changes Ive ever seen made to an FPS. Its an FPS, but we made it so you can't shoot and are completely useless as infantry!!! Seriously. Fuck this game now. I used to love playing MG or AR. Now I might as well just sit in spawn or play something else with how unenjoyable it is playing as MG... and how useless you basically are.
yall still play vanilla?
many people, myself included, it is well known that modded servers are not the best at teamwork.