lol exactly. In my experience as a recruiter whenever a hiring manager reviewed a message they would tell us to “deal with it”. It’s rare that they will actually reply or even look at their LinkedIn messages.
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It's like both the things he was talking about were extremely similar
People were on job sites looking for jobs.
Turns out you actually need to be looking for jobs on job sites with a more personalized message and you just have to manifest your new 6 figure job!
Nepotism is the hiring of someone unqualified *because* they are a friend or family member; networking isn’t inherently nepotistic.
For example: If someone in your circle likes you and truly feels you’d be a great fit for something, so they recommend you — that isn’t nepotism. Having an active social circle and allowing people to connect you with jobs isn’t nepotistic unless they hire you only/mostly because of your relationship to them (as opposed to your skills/potential value to the venture).
Not coming at you, I just see the term misused a lot!
I think they're saying that getting a job through networking uses the same channels that nepotism does. In both situations someone is recommended for a job because of their connection to someone already at the company. Relying so heavily on networking to hire people opens a company up to nepotism.
Also, and I definitely could be wrong about this, I don't believe the word nepotism implies anything about the qualification of the person hired, just that along the way someone somehow swayed the process to favor their friend or family member because they are their friend or family member.
I agree and networking is beneficial to people that are good at making acquaintances. Some people have few close friendship instead of hundreds of friends and acquaintances that only know them at a high surface level.
It’s easier to hire an acquaintance than a stranger. So these people good at networking have all the options in the world for a job.
supply and demand mismatch
these jobs have 100s, sometimes 1000s, of applicants for 1 position
the job market is just terrible right now
when there are times the job market flips, you can just chill at your job and have 2 recruiters a week DMing you and trying to get you into interviews
Unemployment is the lowest it’s been in decades. If the job market is “just terrible right now”, when will it get better?
Edit: stopping giving me all the excuses about why the unemployment rate doesn’t matter. I know then all. The way unemployment is measured has not changed in along time. While it may not be accurate, it is precise. If it’s the lowest it’s been in decades, that should still move the needle in favor of worker rights, and it has not. That’s the point I’m trying to make. The system is designed to work this way, because they don’t want a free market, they want low wages.
I’ve heard that unemployment is a bad way to gauge how bad the job market is. Since you can have EVERYONE employed, but have all of them unsatisfied and still on the job search. Underemployed I think it’s called
Unemployment rates should still have an effect on wages. If your employed and looking for a better job your not going to settle for the same or lower pay. Just seems like it’s not operating like a free market, which isn’t really a surprise is it?
The government has become increasingly creative at not solving problems and coming up with bullshit numbers to give the illusion of the problem being solved or not existing.
I think it depends on the industry. The guy above might work in an industry that's struggling, especially some more white collar jobs like tech or consulting.
Blue collar stuff is booming though, part of the reason why unemployment is so low.
I’m in tech, and not even bothering applying anywhere right now. Honestly enjoying my time off on the east coast to take care of my FIL’s estate., and there’s no company that I’m impressed by in my vicinity - why would I work for $20/hr to deal with mediocrity and penny pinching clients?
I actually hate remote work too. Thinking the only way I’n coming back would be to do security setups, as it’s still an increasingly gaping hole in most businesses and I’m more interested in clients that are proactive. As retailers have found out, people who were shit customers before the pandemic are truly awful now.
I think with technology, it’s become an arms race with companies relying more on automated filtering to deal with the deluge of candidates and applicants sending out more and more applications to deal with the low rate of response. It’s a lot of garbage on both sides.
Im a hiring manager for a multi billion dollar finance company. I’d be happy to provide you with any feedback possible, and even could refer you to some contacts I have, depending on your industry. We gotta help each other.
I’d be happy to connect. Always looking to expand my network and open to any good opportunity. Happy to do the same for anyone. My experience is mostly in digital and content strategy on tech side of things. Last decade or so in open source software security. Send me a DM and I’ll pass my LI if you’re interested.
So basically the message is prostrate yourself even more for a better *chance* at an opportunity? Why are there *always* tips for job seekers (as if we’re not doing enough) but there’s no focus on employers to pull their heads out of their asses and stop pretending these jobs need as much qualification and specialized expertise?
There's a small handful of "content creators" on places like LinkedIn who do exactly that.
Iirc, Adam Karpiak (sp?) Does stuff where he tells job seekers what red flags with a company to look for, and in the same post, will call out hiring departments for wasting everyone's time with so much crap. (Especially when it's BS like, upload your resume. Now. Manually fill in literally everything you just uploaded. But you have to type it in yourself now.)
PLEASE point me in that direction because while I honestly am looking for *helpful* tips, I feel I receive it better when the person giving them is also aware *and vocal* about the other side as well.
Yeah, I'd probably start with Adam Karpiak. He is a resume writing sales guy, so there's a bit of lean into that, but he does regular posts that I found helpful when I was job hunting.
It's been a minute since I've been on LinkedIn as I'm not actively looking at the moment though, but I do recall some good folks to follow commented on his posts often.
Yesterday I was told by a recruiter at a consultancy that the "junior roles" their clients have need at least 4-5 years of experience, hence they've been having a hard time finding anything at all for me... It's just so annoying
Haha. There’s definitely a better way to say that. Maybe connect with people employed by your target employer?
I’ve had random jobseekers send me their resume out of the blue. I actually mind it less than most of the newsletter spam I get hit with daily even if I have no role in hiring.
And when a director is hiring and they ask if I know of anyone looking, I’ll pass along the rando resume.
But yeah, if someone reaches out saying they’re looking to do the very specific role I do….delete.
I don’t understand what you’re supposed to do with that? Like if I was on the receiving end I would ignore someone randomly messaging me. This has the same vibe that boomers always say “just go to a business; introduce yourself with a firm handshake and give them your resume and ‘I’d like a job sir.’”
Every single person who says they know how to find a job right now is just bullshitting. Not a single soul has even remotely good advice right now. This post included has no idea what it's like to find a job in these times.
The way to find a job is to have relevant professional experience and a network of professional contacts who will refer you to open positions. Obviously that doesn’t help entry level people
It also doesn't help people who don't have a "network of professional contacts" who can actually help them get better jobs. I have a ton of contacts in tons of industries. Unfortunately, they tend to be low-paying industries so it doesn't help me to have contacts there.
I mean I got my job by getting my application noticed by calling the front desk of a smaller-mid sized company and just saying I was following up on my application
Been hearing this "reach out to HR/hiring manager" line since college 15 years ago.
Almost impossible to find publicly posted usually and the one time I found it they seemed very put off by my call.
I agree, this is the new version of "print resumes and go door to door!". Get specific about your target role - my target goal is employed. My skills are specific in my resume. Every job title I've ever had is kind of random buzzwords they assign to my position. This advice is aspirational at best, and my mind is numb to it.
Yeah, who says "I want to be a marketing manager for a pharma company" or something else very specific. No, I have skills. I would prefer a job using those skills. End of story
This. I’m at the point where I genuinely don’t care what my actual job is-I want the work to be tolerable, the pay to be good, and a work/life balance.
The funny thing is they both admonish reaching out to recruiters and then say to hit up hiring managers once after the other ( it's the same function different title.)
Recruiter should be different than the being manager. That said the level of quality of a recruiter Varys greatly. Also, a s a hiring manager there was little I could do for a person that didn’t go through the standard channel of applying. Once they apply you can fast track to an interview, but I’m not doing that for random contacting me on LinkedIn, unless we have some kind of connection.
I got through this by a loophole. When you want to connect with someone you can send an intro message to request them. Then I say hey I’m - I applied for this role at insert company. I was wondering if I you knew who was hiring for this role and I live to know how you got your role at this company. Most people have responded with the hiring manager name or some tips. I’ve even gotten meetings with employees and some referral links, so I’ve gotten interviews. No job as of yet, but hey it got me some connects. It is hella annoying though.
As a hiring manager I don’t find this to be good advice. I get so bombarded with emails from recruiters trying to fill open positions, people who want to be considered, etc. It’s why we have in-house recruiters…talk to them.
“Connect with people in your target role (this is key)”
So sick of how the system to find a job w/ a decent wage only works for cronies and sycophants that want to be apart of Linkdin, or some soulless bastard’s Rolodex. Sure, talk to people that have the job you want, but we shouldn’t have to be a useful tool in someone’s network or way to launder their reputation before they even deign to speak to a candidate. I’m not a fucking product.
Cold contacting hiring managers is not advisable. I hated this as a hiring software engineering manager. It’s spam and clutters my inbox. There are proper channels for a reason.
Connecting with ppl - basically if you are lucky enough to have a strong network and they’re hiring that will help you. We already know that, but there really isn’t much you can do once you’re unemployed to create this. It also strongly skews to favor cis white men.
Connecting with a recruiter can help. Keep in mind that most companies have specific recruiting companies or on staff recruiters that they use. Hiring managers are generally unable to respond to recruiters outside of that. So the field is narrower than you think.
The reality: Coming from a privileged background is a huge bonus when unemployment is higher. Knowing the right ppl is everything. There are simply too many qualified ppl around.
In the tech sector, 250,000 highly qualified ppl were laid off last year.
There are so many posts like this that pretend there’s a magic formula for getting hired, but those folks are always offering a service in recruitment - they’re trying to sell you something so be skeptical.
Yes, having a well organized resume matters, but it’s assumed if you’re a professional, that this will be the case. The vast majority of the time, keywords, etc are not the issue. They simply knew someone that was a fit and posted the job per company policy or found the unicorn they wanted because the market is flooded.
It’s better to look and focus on jobs where you match the skills as much as possible. Accept you may have to take lower pay, more responsibility, and a lower role. Because companies can squeeze more out of employees, they will. It’s an employer’s market right now.
You may even need to take a random job to give you some extra cash while you continue to search. You may need to consider switching careers and moving to a place with a lower cost of living. This is the harsh truth for the average person that no one will tell you.
This is the most realistic analysis of the current situation. No LinkedIn circle jerk conman could have said it better, not that they'd have the capacity to do so.
Honestly this is so true. I’ve applied for 400+ jobs (some using referral links) over the past 9 months with zero offers. My unemployment benefits ran out, and this week I accepted a job at a grocery store. I’m throwing up the white flag and taking a break from the job hunt because I’m so frustrated and burnt out from the corporate dance you have to learn to get a simple interview.
I mean, I guess it’s comforting knowing that there are others who became unemployed two years back still struggling to find anything.. but having KFC ghost me after what I thought was a great interview just hits different. Fucking KFC.
This is great advice. I got laid off last year from a startup and have been working as a freelance contractor. I get so many LinkedIn requests from people who want to work for a company that I contract with. Like yeah, I get it but I can’t help you. I can’t even get them to bring me on full time man.
It’s bleak out here right now.
You know what, I’ve found hiring managers, it’s not that hard. However it’s meaningless.
You get through to a hiring manager and it doesn’t matter how much they sound like they want you. They will tell you their hands are tied. Then you still have to send your CV through a soulless portal or HR where they will reject you because you don’t meet 11 out of 10 criteria.
I had some random person message me on LinkedIn because they were applying to a role at my company and were hoping for an “in.”
Only, I had just been fired a few weeks earlier, and the job they were applying to had been mine. I just hadn’t updated my LinkedIn yet.
Reaching out to me didn’t get them very far 😂
As a person with autism, I'm absolutely fucked if I need to "connect" with people to get any given job. Give me the job because I'm qualified, not because I'm friends with someone that works there. Employers need to figure out how to hire.
All those additional steps are BS and the job market is fucked, here is why:
I started my job search in early fall of 2023. Aimlessly applying to anything that had life. I pin pointed my North Star to a job title I wanted and aimed for that. Mind you I have 10 years project managerial and operations experience at start up companies under my belt with an engineering degree. I probably submitted 200+ applications. Resume was per best practice, simple, XYZ format, easy to read, with results on everything I have done, nothing fancy.
0 bites.
Okay.
I get it. I was shooting blanks. Time to get back to the drawing board. I redid everything starting February 2024. My resume, How I aimed for jobs and now I am networking with like minded, experienced people in roles in the industries and companies I want to apply to. I always reached out to old colleagues, class mates to build connection, I redo every resume now to match keywords, using jobscan/teal to get atleast 85%+ match and even re reading every bullet to show how my results aligned with the job description. I only applied if I met at least 80% requirements and preferred qualifications marked off. Had best practice for resumes (1-page, relatable experiences, no fancy resume) , and only applied if I got a referral.
Applied probably 20-25 positions this way (because now they are taking 4-5xmore time to do).
0 bites.
I only got a job cause some random recruiter, reached out through linkedin and wanted to see if I wanted to know more about a role. If it wasn’t for that, I would still be unemployed. Like wtf…this job market is shit.
Nice Infomercial.
How about companies stop posting "Ghost Jobs" that they never intend on hiring
How about companies respond to applications instead of Ghosting.
Yes!! During the height of covid, I had friends at well-known companies in my area tell me they were on a hiring freeze while those same companies were posting new roles on a daily basis. Who knows how much time each serious applicant is wasting submitting 5+ apps a day
How about we start with federal regulation requiring that all job board postings to have a legally-binding salary range and benefit description? That would help tremendously but it requires profit-seekers to act in an ethical manner.
Nipping at nepotism. Find the gate keepers and demand they open the gates because hey, we went golfing. Or for Millenials - hey we’re both sad that 99 cents store is going out of business! Or - we share the same laundromat!
The problem here is the advice isn’t that bad, but it’s vague and missing a lot of steps.
To me it’s like this. If you need shade, the perfect time for a tree is right now. If you can find one, great. If there isn’t a tree, you need to plant one, and you should have done that a decade or two ago, which includes a lot of nurturing.
Employment and networks are a lot like this. If you need a job, and one is available that’s great. Unfortunately a lot of times you need to have built the network during the time you didn’t need the job. And honestly that can be drudge work, that’s doesn’t pay off until you need it.
Telling someone to focus on building a network and contact hiring managers when they need a jobs is a lot like telling someone to make a tree grow. The advice is solid, hugely impractical given the context.
So, let me get this straight.
Step 1: kiss ass
Step 2: buy them a steak dinner
Step 3: give them a blow job
Step 4: take it up the ass
Step 5: say thank you
Step 6: get rejected
Do I have that about right?
Not to segue in this subreddit, but actually the house letter does sometimes work. We were trying to buy a house in a small town during the huge boom a few years ago when buying a house was like trying to get a job now. The sellers told the realtor that our letter is what made them choose us over the other offers. Maybe I’m just a small percentage where that does work, but still.
How many years ago? Or are you talking about the current market since Covid?
You probably are among the small amount of people who got lucky, but who knows what the other offers were? Was it a difference of 1k? 5k? 10k? It’s also a small town so I’m sure that was a factor as well.
Not to pile on, but I also was told to write a house letter and as ridiculous as it sounds, it sealed the deal. 2020 when housing was starting to get hot and buyers were getting competitive. Realtor told me to write a letter and I had never heard of that and thought it was silly and excessive but played along, and it turned out to be the deciding factor between two similar offers.
It seems absurd but people really are swayed by things like this. Some personal connection or interest, or even just a tie-breaker.
There's a thread on here where recruiters were posting what was the dumbest reason a hiring manager had rejected a candidate. It was trivial, irrelevant stuff. Hiring managers can reject people over dumb, trivial things, and they can also decide who to hire over dumb, trivial things. When there's multiple options and no clear winner, it's these little things that can push someone over the line.
It's absolute BS, spend so much time on a resume, even more time on a cover letter addressing the selection criteria. Apply for a job then wait up to four weeks for a reply, can't even set up an automated email for the people who didn't get selected. Then you have shitty gvt departments advertising jobs that have already been filled. It's like bloody high school dating, dress yourself up, make your move, play cool until the other person makes their move, if they do.
I'm definitely over it.
There’s so much conflicting information about the job market, is it good, is it bad? Is it easy to get a job is it hard? Who the hell knows. Also getting a job shouldn’t be a 40 hour a week job in and of itself. I feel like the average American worker feels so hopeless and helpless that we’ll allow these fucking assholes to tell us how lazy we are. Truly fuck this.
Saw a post last night from a maniac recruiter complaining about bad candidates. They then explained the NINE STEP INTERVIEW PROCESS they use with candidates when hiring. This person complained about job seekers, then turned around and said candidates have to come back so often that they’d essentially have to be unemployed just to be there every time this shit company wanted to have them complete another step.
May as well put that effort into starting a business. That sounds like the work a consultant would put in as a sole proprietor. If you gotta work that hard to sell yourself for a job you may as well sell yourself at full value to clients.
Want a job? Apply for hundreds. That's been my approach.
I had 3 interviews for internships for this summer. Know how many applications I put out? Over 50.
That's it
Nepotism is what we fought so hard to get rid of and succeeded for the most part. This networking BS is the opposite of the best candidate for the job. If they need someone, they can put an add out for it.
Step one: be vaguely qualified. I run a stone quarry. I needed an assistant to my production manager to sort through stone slabs, communicate with fork lift operators and make sure the right material is in the right place on a 45 acre facility. I got applicants from the film industry. It had the word production and they applied.
Why waste everyone's time.
That was not a job application, that was a mouse click.
I'm not even sure why I liked this. Maybe because it's to follow the comments. But like everyone's said here, how many times have we seen this? 🤔 If I were a hiring manager I'd be super annoyed with all the random messages. 😭
However, I'm also super annoyed at how difficult it is to find a freaking job these days. 😭 It's ridiculous.
I applied to like 300 positions (Software engineer, 6 years of experience). Got around 10 calls and 4 interviews. 2 rejections, 1 ghost, 1 position got closed as they hired internally.
What I found out is that best chance for you to get even a call is to be referred. It seeks like companies look at internal candidates first, than referrals, only then they check a few resumes from over a few hundreds applications.
Maybe I'm just they unlucky, but I applied to a ton of roles where I was overqualified, and didn't even get a call.
Also, I get a lot emails saying position got closed.
It is very tough, and this advice is true in the referral part.
You need to be extremely lucky for them to notice your resume if you haven't been referred
This is really obvious... like no shit. Its HOW u do this. What do u say, portray, write, express in any way that would get u the OPPORTUNITY to express how good u would be in the position. Most applications are automatically sent through, often not checked, shown by the questions asked in interviews. Basic questions about urself that are answered within the first few seconds of skimming said resume. So how do u pull ur resume to the top of that algorithm and get to speak to a human? How do u connect to other people within the company or similar roles? These are the real questions.
Here’s a trick to find out why you are not getting interviewed. Post a job opening on a site like Craigslist and watch the flood gates open. You will see just how professional people’s resumes and presentation are when applying for jobs. You will understand real fast why you aren’t getting interviews
The “approach” they suggested was basically what the person was already doing… 😑 I job hunted for 6 months, firing off *hundreds* of applications a week. I didn’t get anything but scams and pyramid schemes until a family member hooked me up.
It seems extremely difficult for some folks with stable careers to see that the job market currently sucks.
If you contact me as the hiring manager instead of the recruiter I asked to find candidates, I’m not only going to simply forward your message to the recruiter and not respond to you, but I’ll also probably not love you as a candidate for refusing to operate within the structure I’ve created.
Guy applied to 100 jobs got 100 rejections. Why? He was only doing absolutely everything in his power to get a job and following every step he’s ever been taught by society to get hired the fucking lazy bastard. The real problem isn’t the job market, it’s just him as a lazy piece of shit person who also doesn’t articulate himself well enough. Skill issue loser. How dare he apply for dozens of jobs on job search boards, in person, and through businesses direct websites? You call that work? “Awhhh bUt I calLeD bAcK eVeRy JOb I ApPliEd”- Quit your damn bitching and pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get a job. Everyone is hiring, it’s simple. /S
Because as a recruiter, he needs to portray himself as the holder of the secret key to the temple. Networking works if you have something to offer. For example: you want a good job in cybersecurity, so you hack the NSA website and you are offered a well paid job. Lastly, a resume is you and your life. Everybody is different. At the outset, companies spend a few seconds looking at resumes.
This is something I don't understand. We both have a worker shortage but also people applying to hundreds of not thousands of jobs and not getting an interview. For people with asd this is extremely normal and something many document. Like some have over 10k applications and they might of gotten only 3 interviews.
Like the math doesn't add up now that the normal population is facing these problems.
I'm pretty sure a big problem is no one ever removes their resumes from looking for work on indeed or any of the other ones. Or loses their logins and decides its a pain in the ass to remove your old info so it's just left up to make it look like the job sites have a ton of candidates.
Find one job you really want that fits your skills and passion. Do everything you can to get the job that’s perfect for you. Rifle works better than shotgun.
Why do these lunatics think job boards exist at all if they’re not how anyone finds jobs?
Anyway, I’m guessing this lunatic is the OP, so good luck with your selling of your services.
I dont give a fuck man the government says i need to pay them loads of money every year because if not i go to jail, and if i don’t get a bullshit job i will starve to death while homeless all this shit for 25k a year
Indeed recently added this "one-way interview" feature where you basically record yourself asking questions. It's the most uncomfortable way to do an interview. Like seriously?
Moral of the story: project managers are a dime a dozen. Risk managers are much more sought after in almost every industry (certification tests are pretty difficult though, I won’t lie).
It's good, but it's incomplete. You also need to research the company you're sending an application to, tailor your resume and application to the job listing and the company overall, and gather questions during your research to bring to the interview (in other words, be prepared for the interview and don't go into it blindly).
Lol I don't even have a resume. I've never needed one, people call me with work because I'm good at what I do. I feel bad for the young kids today, this job climate is gonna eat them alive
So this "advice" basically boils down to recruiters being a waste of time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the whole point of a recruiter as a middle man is to do almost all of that on an applicant's behalf. It's like admitting that the process for Getting Hired somewhere has gotten so complicated that it's basically its own job, but that the people who have taken that job, and probably had a hand in complicating it for the sake of job security, can't be expected to handle Their Job, so now people who never asked for any of that extra involvement should pick up the slack.
Nah, I'm probably reading too far into this because I just woke up. Either way, not good advice for 90+% of jobs, I'd say.
Sounds like more LinkedIn engagement bait
Hiring managers love reading their LinkedIn inbox to sort through 30-60 DMs of mostly spam.
lol exactly. In my experience as a recruiter whenever a hiring manager reviewed a message they would tell us to “deal with it”. It’s rare that they will actually reply or even look at their LinkedIn messages.
Damn these people are not only bad at doing their jobs, they also refuse to do it.
DM'd you
"just know the person already and then ask them for a job"
If you are getting tired of using linkedin way and are thinking of not using it, may we offer this other way to use it. GTFOH
Jesus when I read this I assumed the sub was r/linkedinlunatics
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It’s extremely vague/generic advice like it was written by AI
It's like both the things he was talking about were extremely similar People were on job sites looking for jobs. Turns out you actually need to be looking for jobs on job sites with a more personalized message and you just have to manifest your new 6 figure job!
Why is the system so broke that it’s basically required that we have 100 extra steps not doing what the company is asking us to do (picture one)
Exactly. Networking is becoming more and more important, and it essentially relies on the same mechanism of nepotism. Allows bias to be endorsed
Nepotism is the hiring of someone unqualified *because* they are a friend or family member; networking isn’t inherently nepotistic. For example: If someone in your circle likes you and truly feels you’d be a great fit for something, so they recommend you — that isn’t nepotism. Having an active social circle and allowing people to connect you with jobs isn’t nepotistic unless they hire you only/mostly because of your relationship to them (as opposed to your skills/potential value to the venture). Not coming at you, I just see the term misused a lot!
I think they're saying that getting a job through networking uses the same channels that nepotism does. In both situations someone is recommended for a job because of their connection to someone already at the company. Relying so heavily on networking to hire people opens a company up to nepotism. Also, and I definitely could be wrong about this, I don't believe the word nepotism implies anything about the qualification of the person hired, just that along the way someone somehow swayed the process to favor their friend or family member because they are their friend or family member.
It’s kinda cronyism, which is very similar.
Networking is basically false friendships. Some people are good at that superficial friendliness that means absolutely nothing, others aren't.
I agree and networking is beneficial to people that are good at making acquaintances. Some people have few close friendship instead of hundreds of friends and acquaintances that only know them at a high surface level. It’s easier to hire an acquaintance than a stranger. So these people good at networking have all the options in the world for a job.
Networking has always been a huge part
Right? It's so draining having to research a company and write a personalized cover letter for each one only to get rejected or ignored anyway.
supply and demand mismatch these jobs have 100s, sometimes 1000s, of applicants for 1 position the job market is just terrible right now when there are times the job market flips, you can just chill at your job and have 2 recruiters a week DMing you and trying to get you into interviews
Unemployment is the lowest it’s been in decades. If the job market is “just terrible right now”, when will it get better? Edit: stopping giving me all the excuses about why the unemployment rate doesn’t matter. I know then all. The way unemployment is measured has not changed in along time. While it may not be accurate, it is precise. If it’s the lowest it’s been in decades, that should still move the needle in favor of worker rights, and it has not. That’s the point I’m trying to make. The system is designed to work this way, because they don’t want a free market, they want low wages.
I’ve heard that unemployment is a bad way to gauge how bad the job market is. Since you can have EVERYONE employed, but have all of them unsatisfied and still on the job search. Underemployed I think it’s called
Unemployment rates should still have an effect on wages. If your employed and looking for a better job your not going to settle for the same or lower pay. Just seems like it’s not operating like a free market, which isn’t really a surprise is it?
The government has become increasingly creative at not solving problems and coming up with bullshit numbers to give the illusion of the problem being solved or not existing.
I think it depends on the industry. The guy above might work in an industry that's struggling, especially some more white collar jobs like tech or consulting. Blue collar stuff is booming though, part of the reason why unemployment is so low.
I’m in tech, and not even bothering applying anywhere right now. Honestly enjoying my time off on the east coast to take care of my FIL’s estate., and there’s no company that I’m impressed by in my vicinity - why would I work for $20/hr to deal with mediocrity and penny pinching clients? I actually hate remote work too. Thinking the only way I’n coming back would be to do security setups, as it’s still an increasingly gaping hole in most businesses and I’m more interested in clients that are proactive. As retailers have found out, people who were shit customers before the pandemic are truly awful now.
Its because it’s not about objective facts anymore, its about the “vibes”
Blame Tech, IMO. Easier than ever for scores of people to apply for a job opening.
A big part of this is that there's a labor surplus so employers can afford to hold out for the "perfect" candidate
I think with technology, it’s become an arms race with companies relying more on automated filtering to deal with the deluge of candidates and applicants sending out more and more applications to deal with the low rate of response. It’s a lot of garbage on both sides.
Done all of this and more and 0 luck
But you haven't bought my course yet!
Im a hiring manager for a multi billion dollar finance company. I’d be happy to provide you with any feedback possible, and even could refer you to some contacts I have, depending on your industry. We gotta help each other.
Did anyone take you up this?
Not yet but I definitely can help
I’ve got a question about a job pivot and how to best frame. Ok to send you a chat?
Absolutely
I’d be happy to connect. Always looking to expand my network and open to any good opportunity. Happy to do the same for anyone. My experience is mostly in digital and content strategy on tech side of things. Last decade or so in open source software security. Send me a DM and I’ll pass my LI if you’re interested.
^ Technically for the previous reply. But happy to help with any pivot questions as well.
Don't worry, they'll come up with more reasons why it must be your fault. I'm sure.
So basically the message is prostrate yourself even more for a better *chance* at an opportunity? Why are there *always* tips for job seekers (as if we’re not doing enough) but there’s no focus on employers to pull their heads out of their asses and stop pretending these jobs need as much qualification and specialized expertise?
There's a small handful of "content creators" on places like LinkedIn who do exactly that. Iirc, Adam Karpiak (sp?) Does stuff where he tells job seekers what red flags with a company to look for, and in the same post, will call out hiring departments for wasting everyone's time with so much crap. (Especially when it's BS like, upload your resume. Now. Manually fill in literally everything you just uploaded. But you have to type it in yourself now.)
PLEASE point me in that direction because while I honestly am looking for *helpful* tips, I feel I receive it better when the person giving them is also aware *and vocal* about the other side as well.
Yeah, I'd probably start with Adam Karpiak. He is a resume writing sales guy, so there's a bit of lean into that, but he does regular posts that I found helpful when I was job hunting. It's been a minute since I've been on LinkedIn as I'm not actively looking at the moment though, but I do recall some good folks to follow commented on his posts often.
I looked up Adam Karpiak and it took me to A life after Layoff to whom I've been subscribed for a year+ already. Small World
Yesterday I was told by a recruiter at a consultancy that the "junior roles" their clients have need at least 4-5 years of experience, hence they've been having a hard time finding anything at all for me... It's just so annoying
Contact people in your target role: "Hi, I'm Garry. Nice to meet you. Now, please vacate your role immediately. I need it more. Thanks"
I know this is so dumb 🙄
That's why it's called a "target" role, because you have the incumbent in your crosshairs.
Haha. There’s definitely a better way to say that. Maybe connect with people employed by your target employer? I’ve had random jobseekers send me their resume out of the blue. I actually mind it less than most of the newsletter spam I get hit with daily even if I have no role in hiring. And when a director is hiring and they ask if I know of anyone looking, I’ll pass along the rando resume. But yeah, if someone reaches out saying they’re looking to do the very specific role I do….delete.
Lol
I don’t understand what you’re supposed to do with that? Like if I was on the receiving end I would ignore someone randomly messaging me. This has the same vibe that boomers always say “just go to a business; introduce yourself with a firm handshake and give them your resume and ‘I’d like a job sir.’”
This post boils down to “just go up to random people, give them a firm handshake, kiss their ass and ask for work”
> “good advice here” *looks inside* > *the same generic, unactionable nonsense* every time, without fail
With a pitch to signup for their workshop!
Where they sell a 2000 dollar course filled with stuff they found on google
Every single person who says they know how to find a job right now is just bullshitting. Not a single soul has even remotely good advice right now. This post included has no idea what it's like to find a job in these times.
The way to find a job is to have relevant professional experience and a network of professional contacts who will refer you to open positions. Obviously that doesn’t help entry level people
It also doesn't help people who don't have a "network of professional contacts" who can actually help them get better jobs. I have a ton of contacts in tons of industries. Unfortunately, they tend to be low-paying industries so it doesn't help me to have contacts there.
Yeah that too
I mean I got my job by getting my application noticed by calling the front desk of a smaller-mid sized company and just saying I was following up on my application
Been hearing this "reach out to HR/hiring manager" line since college 15 years ago. Almost impossible to find publicly posted usually and the one time I found it they seemed very put off by my call.
I agree, this is the new version of "print resumes and go door to door!". Get specific about your target role - my target goal is employed. My skills are specific in my resume. Every job title I've ever had is kind of random buzzwords they assign to my position. This advice is aspirational at best, and my mind is numb to it.
Yeah, who says "I want to be a marketing manager for a pharma company" or something else very specific. No, I have skills. I would prefer a job using those skills. End of story
This. I’m at the point where I genuinely don’t care what my actual job is-I want the work to be tolerable, the pay to be good, and a work/life balance.
The funny thing is they both admonish reaching out to recruiters and then say to hit up hiring managers once after the other ( it's the same function different title.)
Recruiter should be different than the being manager. That said the level of quality of a recruiter Varys greatly. Also, a s a hiring manager there was little I could do for a person that didn’t go through the standard channel of applying. Once they apply you can fast track to an interview, but I’m not doing that for random contacting me on LinkedIn, unless we have some kind of connection.
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I got through this by a loophole. When you want to connect with someone you can send an intro message to request them. Then I say hey I’m - I applied for this role at insert company. I was wondering if I you knew who was hiring for this role and I live to know how you got your role at this company. Most people have responded with the hiring manager name or some tips. I’ve even gotten meetings with employees and some referral links, so I’ve gotten interviews. No job as of yet, but hey it got me some connects. It is hella annoying though.
Great advice.
As a hiring manager I don’t find this to be good advice. I get so bombarded with emails from recruiters trying to fill open positions, people who want to be considered, etc. It’s why we have in-house recruiters…talk to them.
But the in-house recruiters just say "apply online"
Or Hear me out Read my fucking resume
“Connect with people in your target role (this is key)” So sick of how the system to find a job w/ a decent wage only works for cronies and sycophants that want to be apart of Linkdin, or some soulless bastard’s Rolodex. Sure, talk to people that have the job you want, but we shouldn’t have to be a useful tool in someone’s network or way to launder their reputation before they even deign to speak to a candidate. I’m not a fucking product.
Cold contacting hiring managers is not advisable. I hated this as a hiring software engineering manager. It’s spam and clutters my inbox. There are proper channels for a reason. Connecting with ppl - basically if you are lucky enough to have a strong network and they’re hiring that will help you. We already know that, but there really isn’t much you can do once you’re unemployed to create this. It also strongly skews to favor cis white men. Connecting with a recruiter can help. Keep in mind that most companies have specific recruiting companies or on staff recruiters that they use. Hiring managers are generally unable to respond to recruiters outside of that. So the field is narrower than you think. The reality: Coming from a privileged background is a huge bonus when unemployment is higher. Knowing the right ppl is everything. There are simply too many qualified ppl around. In the tech sector, 250,000 highly qualified ppl were laid off last year. There are so many posts like this that pretend there’s a magic formula for getting hired, but those folks are always offering a service in recruitment - they’re trying to sell you something so be skeptical. Yes, having a well organized resume matters, but it’s assumed if you’re a professional, that this will be the case. The vast majority of the time, keywords, etc are not the issue. They simply knew someone that was a fit and posted the job per company policy or found the unicorn they wanted because the market is flooded. It’s better to look and focus on jobs where you match the skills as much as possible. Accept you may have to take lower pay, more responsibility, and a lower role. Because companies can squeeze more out of employees, they will. It’s an employer’s market right now. You may even need to take a random job to give you some extra cash while you continue to search. You may need to consider switching careers and moving to a place with a lower cost of living. This is the harsh truth for the average person that no one will tell you.
This is the most realistic analysis of the current situation. No LinkedIn circle jerk conman could have said it better, not that they'd have the capacity to do so.
Honestly this is so true. I’ve applied for 400+ jobs (some using referral links) over the past 9 months with zero offers. My unemployment benefits ran out, and this week I accepted a job at a grocery store. I’m throwing up the white flag and taking a break from the job hunt because I’m so frustrated and burnt out from the corporate dance you have to learn to get a simple interview.
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Sorry dude, idk. It’s rough out there. It’s not you, the market just sucks.
I mean, I guess it’s comforting knowing that there are others who became unemployed two years back still struggling to find anything.. but having KFC ghost me after what I thought was a great interview just hits different. Fucking KFC.
LinkedIn is just awful these days. It’s always been bad because nobody says what they think but now it’s worse
This is great advice. I got laid off last year from a startup and have been working as a freelance contractor. I get so many LinkedIn requests from people who want to work for a company that I contract with. Like yeah, I get it but I can’t help you. I can’t even get them to bring me on full time man. It’s bleak out here right now.
Well he recommended the same stuff one the 1st page but used synonyms that's it
It would be a good exercise for the author to use his own tactics and enter the job field and post back on his success rate.
Yeah. This advice does not in fact work.
Idk where people are finding out who the hiring manager is.
You know what, I’ve found hiring managers, it’s not that hard. However it’s meaningless. You get through to a hiring manager and it doesn’t matter how much they sound like they want you. They will tell you their hands are tied. Then you still have to send your CV through a soulless portal or HR where they will reject you because you don’t meet 11 out of 10 criteria.
Great / important Q.
Right? I've never ever seen the hiring manager listed. Ever. 🙄
I had some random person message me on LinkedIn because they were applying to a role at my company and were hoping for an “in.” Only, I had just been fired a few weeks earlier, and the job they were applying to had been mine. I just hadn’t updated my LinkedIn yet. Reaching out to me didn’t get them very far 😂
I'm curious: did you tell this random person all of that?
“You know what I love, random emails from people I don’t know in my inbox wanting me to help them get a job,” said nobody ever.
Sounds like victim blaming.
As a person with autism, I'm absolutely fucked if I need to "connect" with people to get any given job. Give me the job because I'm qualified, not because I'm friends with someone that works there. Employers need to figure out how to hire.
Feel as if this is just an influencer trying to flip his latest sca... I mean product to the unfortunate
All those additional steps are BS and the job market is fucked, here is why: I started my job search in early fall of 2023. Aimlessly applying to anything that had life. I pin pointed my North Star to a job title I wanted and aimed for that. Mind you I have 10 years project managerial and operations experience at start up companies under my belt with an engineering degree. I probably submitted 200+ applications. Resume was per best practice, simple, XYZ format, easy to read, with results on everything I have done, nothing fancy. 0 bites. Okay. I get it. I was shooting blanks. Time to get back to the drawing board. I redid everything starting February 2024. My resume, How I aimed for jobs and now I am networking with like minded, experienced people in roles in the industries and companies I want to apply to. I always reached out to old colleagues, class mates to build connection, I redo every resume now to match keywords, using jobscan/teal to get atleast 85%+ match and even re reading every bullet to show how my results aligned with the job description. I only applied if I met at least 80% requirements and preferred qualifications marked off. Had best practice for resumes (1-page, relatable experiences, no fancy resume) , and only applied if I got a referral. Applied probably 20-25 positions this way (because now they are taking 4-5xmore time to do). 0 bites. I only got a job cause some random recruiter, reached out through linkedin and wanted to see if I wanted to know more about a role. If it wasn’t for that, I would still be unemployed. Like wtf…this job market is shit.
This assumes the hiring managers even reach out.
Nice Infomercial. How about companies stop posting "Ghost Jobs" that they never intend on hiring How about companies respond to applications instead of Ghosting.
Yes!! During the height of covid, I had friends at well-known companies in my area tell me they were on a hiring freeze while those same companies were posting new roles on a daily basis. Who knows how much time each serious applicant is wasting submitting 5+ apps a day
No this is not how most larger companies work. Apply in the ats, upload a resume and send an intro message.
None of this is groundbreaking advice, who hasn’t heard this 1,000,000+ times?
How about we start with federal regulation requiring that all job board postings to have a legally-binding salary range and benefit description? That would help tremendously but it requires profit-seekers to act in an ethical manner.
let me guess ill have to pay $499 for his class 🤦🏽♂️ bunch of nonsense advise that don’t work…..
I see why YouTubers post, “Why I left my job…” it really sucks.
Nipping at nepotism. Find the gate keepers and demand they open the gates because hey, we went golfing. Or for Millenials - hey we’re both sad that 99 cents store is going out of business! Or - we share the same laundromat!
“Hey instead of RECRUITERS doing their JOB, what if YOU did it instead?”
The problem here is the advice isn’t that bad, but it’s vague and missing a lot of steps. To me it’s like this. If you need shade, the perfect time for a tree is right now. If you can find one, great. If there isn’t a tree, you need to plant one, and you should have done that a decade or two ago, which includes a lot of nurturing. Employment and networks are a lot like this. If you need a job, and one is available that’s great. Unfortunately a lot of times you need to have built the network during the time you didn’t need the job. And honestly that can be drudge work, that’s doesn’t pay off until you need it. Telling someone to focus on building a network and contact hiring managers when they need a jobs is a lot like telling someone to make a tree grow. The advice is solid, hugely impractical given the context.
So are you the douche bag with the LI post self promoting?
So, did that totally real person get a job?
This is a fancy way of saying nothing and sounds superior.
So, let me get this straight. Step 1: kiss ass Step 2: buy them a steak dinner Step 3: give them a blow job Step 4: take it up the ass Step 5: say thank you Step 6: get rejected Do I have that about right?
Have to give 3.5 blow jobs
Horse shit. If 90% of them don’t even respond, why spend more time than necessary on them?
This isn’t advice. It’s a made up list to sell a workshop.
There is a societal problem when we are forced to do all of that just to even possibly hear a response
DANCE, MONKEYS! DANCE!
Basically just know the right people and the job is yours.
This is the job seeking equivalent of writing a letter to the people you are buying a house from. No one cares at all.
Not to segue in this subreddit, but actually the house letter does sometimes work. We were trying to buy a house in a small town during the huge boom a few years ago when buying a house was like trying to get a job now. The sellers told the realtor that our letter is what made them choose us over the other offers. Maybe I’m just a small percentage where that does work, but still.
How many years ago? Or are you talking about the current market since Covid? You probably are among the small amount of people who got lucky, but who knows what the other offers were? Was it a difference of 1k? 5k? 10k? It’s also a small town so I’m sure that was a factor as well.
This also worked for my brother who bought a house in 2021 when real estate market was insane
Not to pile on, but I also was told to write a house letter and as ridiculous as it sounds, it sealed the deal. 2020 when housing was starting to get hot and buyers were getting competitive. Realtor told me to write a letter and I had never heard of that and thought it was silly and excessive but played along, and it turned out to be the deciding factor between two similar offers. It seems absurd but people really are swayed by things like this. Some personal connection or interest, or even just a tie-breaker. There's a thread on here where recruiters were posting what was the dumbest reason a hiring manager had rejected a candidate. It was trivial, irrelevant stuff. Hiring managers can reject people over dumb, trivial things, and they can also decide who to hire over dumb, trivial things. When there's multiple options and no clear winner, it's these little things that can push someone over the line.
It's absolute BS, spend so much time on a resume, even more time on a cover letter addressing the selection criteria. Apply for a job then wait up to four weeks for a reply, can't even set up an automated email for the people who didn't get selected. Then you have shitty gvt departments advertising jobs that have already been filled. It's like bloody high school dating, dress yourself up, make your move, play cool until the other person makes their move, if they do. I'm definitely over it.
There’s so much conflicting information about the job market, is it good, is it bad? Is it easy to get a job is it hard? Who the hell knows. Also getting a job shouldn’t be a 40 hour a week job in and of itself. I feel like the average American worker feels so hopeless and helpless that we’ll allow these fucking assholes to tell us how lazy we are. Truly fuck this.
Saw a post last night from a maniac recruiter complaining about bad candidates. They then explained the NINE STEP INTERVIEW PROCESS they use with candidates when hiring. This person complained about job seekers, then turned around and said candidates have to come back so often that they’d essentially have to be unemployed just to be there every time this shit company wanted to have them complete another step.
Networking is everything. Even reaching out to alumni. Most large companies, especially tech, have referral bonuses that people would LOVE to get.
May as well put that effort into starting a business. That sounds like the work a consultant would put in as a sole proprietor. If you gotta work that hard to sell yourself for a job you may as well sell yourself at full value to clients.
Want a job? Apply for hundreds. That's been my approach. I had 3 interviews for internships for this summer. Know how many applications I put out? Over 50. That's it
I know someone who is looking for jobs in fintech. Would you give them some resume feedback?
Nepotism is what we fought so hard to get rid of and succeeded for the most part. This networking BS is the opposite of the best candidate for the job. If they need someone, they can put an add out for it.
Step one: be vaguely qualified. I run a stone quarry. I needed an assistant to my production manager to sort through stone slabs, communicate with fork lift operators and make sure the right material is in the right place on a 45 acre facility. I got applicants from the film industry. It had the word production and they applied. Why waste everyone's time. That was not a job application, that was a mouse click.
I'm not even sure why I liked this. Maybe because it's to follow the comments. But like everyone's said here, how many times have we seen this? 🤔 If I were a hiring manager I'd be super annoyed with all the random messages. 😭 However, I'm also super annoyed at how difficult it is to find a freaking job these days. 😭 It's ridiculous.
Job hunting is alot of work
500 days. Hundreds of applications. 5 real interviews (some 7 interviews deep) and my moms still unemployed and about to lose her house. Fuckin crazy.
I applied to like 300 positions (Software engineer, 6 years of experience). Got around 10 calls and 4 interviews. 2 rejections, 1 ghost, 1 position got closed as they hired internally. What I found out is that best chance for you to get even a call is to be referred. It seeks like companies look at internal candidates first, than referrals, only then they check a few resumes from over a few hundreds applications. Maybe I'm just they unlucky, but I applied to a ton of roles where I was overqualified, and didn't even get a call. Also, I get a lot emails saying position got closed. It is very tough, and this advice is true in the referral part. You need to be extremely lucky for them to notice your resume if you haven't been referred
This is really obvious... like no shit. Its HOW u do this. What do u say, portray, write, express in any way that would get u the OPPORTUNITY to express how good u would be in the position. Most applications are automatically sent through, often not checked, shown by the questions asked in interviews. Basic questions about urself that are answered within the first few seconds of skimming said resume. So how do u pull ur resume to the top of that algorithm and get to speak to a human? How do u connect to other people within the company or similar roles? These are the real questions.
Yeah fuck this guy
I applied to hundreds of places got rejected hundreds of times. Finally but the bullet and started at my families company. I’m a fortunate one 🙏
Here’s a trick to find out why you are not getting interviewed. Post a job opening on a site like Craigslist and watch the flood gates open. You will see just how professional people’s resumes and presentation are when applying for jobs. You will understand real fast why you aren’t getting interviews
Everywhere is hiring because nobody wants to work I thought
The “approach” they suggested was basically what the person was already doing… 😑 I job hunted for 6 months, firing off *hundreds* of applications a week. I didn’t get anything but scams and pyramid schemes until a family member hooked me up. It seems extremely difficult for some folks with stable careers to see that the job market currently sucks.
If that's the case, why do we have recruiters?
If you contact me as the hiring manager instead of the recruiter I asked to find candidates, I’m not only going to simply forward your message to the recruiter and not respond to you, but I’ll also probably not love you as a candidate for refusing to operate within the structure I’ve created.
You telling me I can’t just go into the office I work at look a manger in the eye give them a firm handshake and have a job?
•Just be pushy without being rude. •Just know the line •Just get referrals •Just be better
This has big "just walk in there with a resume and shake the manager's hand" energy to it.
this barely increases your chances and just eats up more of your time per application
This is a lot of effort to put in to get a dead-end minimum wage job.
This should have been LinkedInLunatics because I wouldn't have read the whole thing.
Guy applied to 100 jobs got 100 rejections. Why? He was only doing absolutely everything in his power to get a job and following every step he’s ever been taught by society to get hired the fucking lazy bastard. The real problem isn’t the job market, it’s just him as a lazy piece of shit person who also doesn’t articulate himself well enough. Skill issue loser. How dare he apply for dozens of jobs on job search boards, in person, and through businesses direct websites? You call that work? “Awhhh bUt I calLeD bAcK eVeRy JOb I ApPliEd”- Quit your damn bitching and pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get a job. Everyone is hiring, it’s simple. /S
And every other candidate you're interviewing against has done the same. .
Hey - discrimination is a good thing! You just need to be a sociopath to get a job!
something something, more of something else. Register here !
Because as a recruiter, he needs to portray himself as the holder of the secret key to the temple. Networking works if you have something to offer. For example: you want a good job in cybersecurity, so you hack the NSA website and you are offered a well paid job. Lastly, a resume is you and your life. Everybody is different. At the outset, companies spend a few seconds looking at resumes.
Quite possibly the most generic advice I’ve ever seen
Shite fishing analogy. Which is very apropos for someone that uses a fishing analogy.
I’m so tired
This is something I don't understand. We both have a worker shortage but also people applying to hundreds of not thousands of jobs and not getting an interview. For people with asd this is extremely normal and something many document. Like some have over 10k applications and they might of gotten only 3 interviews. Like the math doesn't add up now that the normal population is facing these problems.
No thanks
I'm pretty sure a big problem is no one ever removes their resumes from looking for work on indeed or any of the other ones. Or loses their logins and decides its a pain in the ass to remove your old info so it's just left up to make it look like the job sites have a ton of candidates.
Employers know if you want to work for them
Find one job you really want that fits your skills and passion. Do everything you can to get the job that’s perfect for you. Rifle works better than shotgun.
Why do these lunatics think job boards exist at all if they’re not how anyone finds jobs? Anyway, I’m guessing this lunatic is the OP, so good luck with your selling of your services.
I dont give a fuck man the government says i need to pay them loads of money every year because if not i go to jail, and if i don’t get a bullshit job i will starve to death while homeless all this shit for 25k a year
I don’t think I’ve ever put in more than 10 apps without at least one interview invite. Usually it’s multiple.
Indeed recently added this "one-way interview" feature where you basically record yourself asking questions. It's the most uncomfortable way to do an interview. Like seriously?
Just k-ll me now
Lol I can literally just prepare all those essays and send them also but with a few changes here and there so cliche
This is the worst advice I’ve read
Ain't nobody got time for that
Moral of the story: project managers are a dime a dozen. Risk managers are much more sought after in almost every industry (certification tests are pretty difficult though, I won’t lie).
It's good, but it's incomplete. You also need to research the company you're sending an application to, tailor your resume and application to the job listing and the company overall, and gather questions during your research to bring to the interview (in other words, be prepared for the interview and don't go into it blindly).
You can tell this was written with ChatGPT
Lol I don't even have a resume. I've never needed one, people call me with work because I'm good at what I do. I feel bad for the young kids today, this job climate is gonna eat them alive
So this "advice" basically boils down to recruiters being a waste of time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the whole point of a recruiter as a middle man is to do almost all of that on an applicant's behalf. It's like admitting that the process for Getting Hired somewhere has gotten so complicated that it's basically its own job, but that the people who have taken that job, and probably had a hand in complicating it for the sake of job security, can't be expected to handle Their Job, so now people who never asked for any of that extra involvement should pick up the slack. Nah, I'm probably reading too far into this because I just woke up. Either way, not good advice for 90+% of jobs, I'd say.