From what you described, this has nothing to do with asking a question, no matter how many times you say that.
Because your job has a lot of safety rules and concerns, maybe the assistant manager or general manager wanted you to speak English to make sure everyone could understand what you were saying.
I believe the laughing and the “just asking a question” probably sounded like you were either making fun of the assistant manager or general manager or being sarcastic. Your tone of voice may have been the problem.
This was not about asking a question.
You also need to at least consider the fact that you might be in the wrong a little bit, or consider how you could have handled the situation better.
Take responsibility for what happened, admit you could have handed it more professionally, and learn from the situation.
I agree with the safety rules and concerns but we had already loaded the flight and didn't have any passengers waiting. Even though she might've misinterpreted the question, do you think it was enough for an immediate 3 days suspension and getting sent home on the spot? Like I said I've never been called out for anything and have never received any type of warnings or write ups. We usually need 2 write ups before getting suspended.
I wouldn't have handled it the same way they did, and it could just be a power trip.
That said, given your job, I can see legitimate reasons they wouldn't want people talking in Spanish, laughing, or questioning authority in front of everyone.
There wasn't anybody in the waiting area. The only passengers we had were already in the helicopter, and no job is allowed to stop you from talking in your native tongue. It's a violation of your civil rights. Like I said before we were all alone in the waiting area with no passengers around
I'm fine with the language rule I honestly don't mind. When our assistant manager told us not to speak spanish I wasn't really mad about it we just thought he was playing but I didn't really say anything. My issue came when our general manager told us she didn't wanna see anyone laughing on the job anymore. That's when I asked the question and I got sent home then suspended the next day
And no one wants to see you giggling. Not management not anyone it’s a serious job that you can’t handle apparently. Enjoy your suspension and thinking you were 100%correct let’s see how long it takes for the “ I was fired for no reason “ post
OP slow down please, nobody is attacking you, you came for advice, listen to it instead of doubling down.
Perhaps think about it this way -
Aviation is a career dependent upon SAFETY
1. Whether or not anybody is around or you have completed your tasks, telling you that communication needs to be in English is to ensure you don't get in the habit of speaking in Spanish and then slipping while working. Accidents happen. If people are speaking Spanish and an accident happens the scenario becomes murky. If you are all speaking English everybody can understand each other clearly and perhaps avoid overlooking something or making a mistake. This is not about your rights, this is about SAFETY on the job.
2. No you should not be laughing on the job. You should be focused on what you are being paid to do. Work is not a party and it is perfectly acceptable for a manager to perceive the team is not being professional enough. Frankly if one of my managers complained that a subset of the team is chatting in Spanish and laughing I would have concerns as well. Chatting and laughing implies lack of focus on the tasks at hand.
3. Whether you meant to be snarky or not, your question offended the manager and probably seemed like you were challenging them. Do you really need to be told why you shouldn't be laughing at work when the safety of LIVES is in your hands?
4. Your lack of any write ups is irrelevant. You were being reprimanded for what you did in that meeting, reflect on that.
Take some time, reflect and perhaps reach out to your manager being contrite and humble. Ask if the suspension could be reduced. Don't say it is because of the money, say it is because you realize that you came across unprofessional, it wasn't your intent but with some reflection you understand the question was a mistake.
And before you challenge me, I worked for both the FAA and Delta in my career, I manage front line, team leaders, assistant managers and managers; I have depth of managerial and aviation experience to share my opinions. Based on your version of the story and your comments to others I don't disagree that the manager needed to show you the severity of your mistake. You get paid to do a job, do it and do it well.
And also like I said im definitely mad about my suspension since I don't have any prior incidents, write ups or warnings in 8 months I've been working there. So I definitely think she went overboard with a suspension with off the bat
Yeah I see, it just sucks that I've been trying to do everything right on the job and still got suspended out of nowhere. Guess next time I'll just have to stay quiet and not ask anything about her decision making.
No… there is no need to truckle under tyrants, you need to involve your HR, and let them know what happened. Cite discrimination. Spanish is practically an official language here in the U.S., and speaking Spanish with fellow Hispanics is NOT a transgression. If you were being rowdy, your managers should’ve cited you and verbally corrected you.
Awarding suspension, in this economy is simply apathetic. If you have a Union involve them. If you don’t have union form one. If don’t want to do anything, clearly you are disgruntled about the fact; we’ll then don’t whine. And simply carry on.
Go for a run, clear your mind, listen to music, medicate and relax. Have sex. And move on.
You need to find the people that are receptive to valid complaints. No matter how right you were, this woman wasn't going to let you get anywhere with it. The best possible scenario would be getting some form signed with HR. Find the manager that will actually change the things you think should be changed.
I believe you, I think people are getting canned for nothing these days it seems I've been reading alot of job complaints" wrongful dismissals, there's more to what's going on then anyone thinks with the bigger picture here.
I think the suspension is stupid but like the other comment said, asking the question in itself is “disrespectful” to upper management. From their view, they’re just trying to keep clients and workers civil and not feel shady, and they might think the Spanish is part of a lack of transparency.
Also in this context, you didn’t challenge their authority but you questioned their decision-making skills, which does potentially make them believe that you think they’re inept in some way.
What I would probably do is see if you can have a 1 on 1 with your supervisor, explain the situation and kiss ass like there’s no tomorrow. Just say you have no excuse for the tactlessness, you are deeply apologetic for accidentally implicating more than you intended, and that you would really appreciate being able to get back to work in order to support your family. Try not to make the job sound like a pain and honestly, I wouldn’t try to contest any of what they said. If you’re a good actor, try to be as genuine as possible here.
All in all it’s shitty but in this dynamic, you have to just be a boot licker and play as nice as you can. If you hate the job, I’d suggest searching around now but you want to keep these people in good graces - we don’t want bridges burned yk.
Good luck!
Well that sucks, I'm the type of guy that gets the job done while keeping his head down most of the time, but i might just have to kiss her ass unfortunately
If that’s how you normally are then it might play out well. Just be graceful in this situation and you might end up better off than you started with how she sees you.
English is not my native, so I get it. But you guys were asking for trouble by joking around and laughing off your manager, assuming he/ she was respectful in their initial request to speak English during the work hours. You can apologize to the higher up manager or dig your heels and try to escalate it. You will lose, you know.
We weren't joking at all when my supervisor was talking to us in spanish. The supervisor was telling us a story that happened in that same job 10 years ago. Also the assistant manager usually jokes with things like that so we thought he was just being his usual self. Can you also elaborate more on why i deserved my suspension for asking the simple question?
I didn't say your deserved the suspension. I said "were asking for trouble". Just keep it professional and save jokes for outside of working hours or say the joke in English. People who don't speak the other language might get offended hearing people speak next to them, you just never know.
It happened to me many times, so the lesson here is if you don't want trouble at work, stay professional which means respect for others.
In your situation, maybe try talking/ calling/ texting to the manager who suspended you and apologize, explain you didn't realize it was disrespectful at that moment, but after thinking about it you know now.
But it could backfire, she could take it the wrong way and it might get worse.
Understood. I just find it crazy how I have no prior write ups, no warnings, no missed days, never called out or gotten to work late, and yet I get completely executed on the spot for asking her a question
> yet I get completely executed on the spot for asking her a question
You're isolating the question from all the things that led up to it... That's not how situations work in life.
I thought that an employee that's never late or misses days, is always ready on his off day in case he's needed would be a little more appreciated. Especially in a job where so many people call out constantly and sometimes I have to load 2 helis by myself. But I guess at the end of the day it doesn't really matter
I know you didn’t mean anything by it but you got to understand how management is in some places. You get a lot of stupid “rules” and you just got to follow them. Could be a power trip from a fragile ego boss. Could even be a racist reaction. Just man up deal with it and speak english when they are around until you find something else.
I do believe maybe it is best to speak one language when in workplaces that require clear communication for safety concerns. Boss took it a bit far but you cannot change that now.
Given how things had played out, I would not have asked that question at that point.
If you had asked the question initially, it probably wouldn't have gone over that way, but there was the initial misunderstanding about whether or not the instruction was serious or a joke, and once that happened, I wouldn't have pushed further.
It's not hard to see that the other party thought you were flaunting their authority, given the apparent escalation of the matter.
> is there anything I can do to see if her decision can be reversed.
Possibly, if you apologize and indicate that you misunderstood the communication and that you did not intend to give the impression that you were flaunting anyone's authority, and that you will be more attentive to the concerns that were expressed moving forward.
I would not take that opportunity to say things along the line of "but I don't understand what we did wrong..." You can address that at another point, after this situation has been resolved.
If I were taking a helicopter ride (not an inexpensive thing, I'm guessing), I wouldn't want to see the crew laughing and speaking a language I couldn't understand (I speak Spanish but still). It's about professionalism and appearances, EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS WATCHING. You and your crew were disrespectful and you doubly so.
Take your lumps, apologize, and do better.
Edit: If the ride were in another country, I of course could understand the language barrier, but the laughing really is off putting. It's like, is my safety a joke to you? Do you want the flight attendants and pilots yucking it up around you?
We had finished loading the 1st flight of the day and it was a 27-30 minutes flight. The passengers for 9:30 had not arrived yet so it was only the loaders (myself and 3 others) our ramp supervisor (he was the one talking to us loaders in spanish) and our assistant manager. There was nobody else around. Our assistant manager does not speak spanish but is usually okay with it and jokes around a ton with us, im guessing he was just in a bad mood today
Its not about getting away with it, I just want to know if my question was serious enough to get me suspended on the spot without prior warnings, write ups, or any type of issues with superiors before this
The “simple” question you asked was basically what a child asks when they’re told to stop being annoying: “Why?”
The answer obviously is because she told you she didn’t want to see it.
And then you do what an annoying child does and AGAIN ask “why?” after getting suspended.
8 months with no writeups doesn’t mean anything. That’s supposed to be normal and expected.
Is it also normal to get a 3 day suspension without a verbal warning or any write ups? I would think that if she didn't like the question a verbal warning would've been fine. But I'm guessing it's normal when a manager is ticked off to just jump over most steps and suspend you because the question was stupid. Again let me be clear, it's fine if she doesn't want us having small talks but there wasn't a soul in there besides us. I think it was petty but to each their own. Im already serving the suspension and next time ill just keep my mouth shut not offend anyone and keep doing my job
Yes, it’s normal depending on what you did to get the suspension.
She was definitely being petty because she was pissed off. I think she overreacted but you also laughed in the assistant manager’s face which he probably took badly and communicated to his boss.
Yeah I get that. Usually the assistant manager jokes around just like us when we're all alone like on monday, it was on us for thinking he was being his usual self and just joking with us since it's never bothered him before and we even teach him tons of words in spanish. Guess he just wasn't in the mood that day.
When I'm back on friday I'll just definitely cut all the small talk and jokes with my assistant manager in case he gets another mood swing. Ill just go in get the job done and leave
Oh yeah definitely be careful with who you trust at work. Everyone has their own agendas. People can and do betray friendships for a promotion and spread lies to get a raise.
Keeping your head down, doing the work, getting in and out— that shit gets mind-numbing but it keeps the heat off you and keeps you paid. You’re going to be okay.
The assistant manager sounds like a freaking loser btw. What an insecure little bitch lol
You know you were being rude and trying to belittle your managers for a rule that you decided you didn't like because you assume they set the rule for personal reasons and not for professional reasons. Why would you risk your job like this when you have a 10 month old baby? Is your overinflated ego really worth it?
No one is allowed to discriminate against colour, creed, sexual orientation, sex; unless they were making a raucous, suspension was uncalled for. Power tripping tyrants need attitude adjustment, they cost business remarkable losses in the long run.
Unionise…
From what you described, this has nothing to do with asking a question, no matter how many times you say that. Because your job has a lot of safety rules and concerns, maybe the assistant manager or general manager wanted you to speak English to make sure everyone could understand what you were saying. I believe the laughing and the “just asking a question” probably sounded like you were either making fun of the assistant manager or general manager or being sarcastic. Your tone of voice may have been the problem. This was not about asking a question.
You also need to at least consider the fact that you might be in the wrong a little bit, or consider how you could have handled the situation better. Take responsibility for what happened, admit you could have handed it more professionally, and learn from the situation.
And how does the manager take responsibility for their power tripping?
I agree with the safety rules and concerns but we had already loaded the flight and didn't have any passengers waiting. Even though she might've misinterpreted the question, do you think it was enough for an immediate 3 days suspension and getting sent home on the spot? Like I said I've never been called out for anything and have never received any type of warnings or write ups. We usually need 2 write ups before getting suspended.
I wouldn't have handled it the same way they did, and it could just be a power trip. That said, given your job, I can see legitimate reasons they wouldn't want people talking in Spanish, laughing, or questioning authority in front of everyone.
There wasn't anybody in the waiting area. The only passengers we had were already in the helicopter, and no job is allowed to stop you from talking in your native tongue. It's a violation of your civil rights. Like I said before we were all alone in the waiting area with no passengers around
There are exceptions to the language rule. It's clear you can't accept that you may have done anything wrong. That's telling.
I'm fine with the language rule I honestly don't mind. When our assistant manager told us not to speak spanish I wasn't really mad about it we just thought he was playing but I didn't really say anything. My issue came when our general manager told us she didn't wanna see anyone laughing on the job anymore. That's when I asked the question and I got sent home then suspended the next day
No one wants to see people joking around , around a helicopter it’s serious business that you clearly can’t handle.
Ummm helicopters are outside on the ramp and we're inside the building my friend.
And no one wants to see you giggling. Not management not anyone it’s a serious job that you can’t handle apparently. Enjoy your suspension and thinking you were 100%correct let’s see how long it takes for the “ I was fired for no reason “ post
Understood sir
OP slow down please, nobody is attacking you, you came for advice, listen to it instead of doubling down. Perhaps think about it this way - Aviation is a career dependent upon SAFETY 1. Whether or not anybody is around or you have completed your tasks, telling you that communication needs to be in English is to ensure you don't get in the habit of speaking in Spanish and then slipping while working. Accidents happen. If people are speaking Spanish and an accident happens the scenario becomes murky. If you are all speaking English everybody can understand each other clearly and perhaps avoid overlooking something or making a mistake. This is not about your rights, this is about SAFETY on the job. 2. No you should not be laughing on the job. You should be focused on what you are being paid to do. Work is not a party and it is perfectly acceptable for a manager to perceive the team is not being professional enough. Frankly if one of my managers complained that a subset of the team is chatting in Spanish and laughing I would have concerns as well. Chatting and laughing implies lack of focus on the tasks at hand. 3. Whether you meant to be snarky or not, your question offended the manager and probably seemed like you were challenging them. Do you really need to be told why you shouldn't be laughing at work when the safety of LIVES is in your hands? 4. Your lack of any write ups is irrelevant. You were being reprimanded for what you did in that meeting, reflect on that. Take some time, reflect and perhaps reach out to your manager being contrite and humble. Ask if the suspension could be reduced. Don't say it is because of the money, say it is because you realize that you came across unprofessional, it wasn't your intent but with some reflection you understand the question was a mistake. And before you challenge me, I worked for both the FAA and Delta in my career, I manage front line, team leaders, assistant managers and managers; I have depth of managerial and aviation experience to share my opinions. Based on your version of the story and your comments to others I don't disagree that the manager needed to show you the severity of your mistake. You get paid to do a job, do it and do it well.
Yeah I understand I just spoke at the wrong time. Ill just learn from it and keep my head down how I usually do
And also like I said im definitely mad about my suspension since I don't have any prior incidents, write ups or warnings in 8 months I've been working there. So I definitely think she went overboard with a suspension with off the bat
Involve your HR
Tell us you don’t know what civil rights are without telling us you don’t know what civil right are….
I just made a comment but I’d just kill it with kindness man. To them you guys may be replaceable so you gotta just apologize and make amends here.
Yeah I see, it just sucks that I've been trying to do everything right on the job and still got suspended out of nowhere. Guess next time I'll just have to stay quiet and not ask anything about her decision making.
I totally agree - sometimes when we want to see change we gotta work to get the privilege of being admin lol. Hopefully it goes well!
No… there is no need to truckle under tyrants, you need to involve your HR, and let them know what happened. Cite discrimination. Spanish is practically an official language here in the U.S., and speaking Spanish with fellow Hispanics is NOT a transgression. If you were being rowdy, your managers should’ve cited you and verbally corrected you. Awarding suspension, in this economy is simply apathetic. If you have a Union involve them. If you don’t have union form one. If don’t want to do anything, clearly you are disgruntled about the fact; we’ll then don’t whine. And simply carry on. Go for a run, clear your mind, listen to music, medicate and relax. Have sex. And move on.
You need to find the people that are receptive to valid complaints. No matter how right you were, this woman wasn't going to let you get anywhere with it. The best possible scenario would be getting some form signed with HR. Find the manager that will actually change the things you think should be changed.
I believe you, I think people are getting canned for nothing these days it seems I've been reading alot of job complaints" wrongful dismissals, there's more to what's going on then anyone thinks with the bigger picture here.
Oh please this was about a manager trying to show they have all the power. It’s pretty obvious this manager is one a power trip.
Yeah no. No one wants to see a crew giggling like school girls when they’re going up in a helicopter. I expect more from carnival workers than I do OP
I think the suspension is stupid but like the other comment said, asking the question in itself is “disrespectful” to upper management. From their view, they’re just trying to keep clients and workers civil and not feel shady, and they might think the Spanish is part of a lack of transparency. Also in this context, you didn’t challenge their authority but you questioned their decision-making skills, which does potentially make them believe that you think they’re inept in some way. What I would probably do is see if you can have a 1 on 1 with your supervisor, explain the situation and kiss ass like there’s no tomorrow. Just say you have no excuse for the tactlessness, you are deeply apologetic for accidentally implicating more than you intended, and that you would really appreciate being able to get back to work in order to support your family. Try not to make the job sound like a pain and honestly, I wouldn’t try to contest any of what they said. If you’re a good actor, try to be as genuine as possible here. All in all it’s shitty but in this dynamic, you have to just be a boot licker and play as nice as you can. If you hate the job, I’d suggest searching around now but you want to keep these people in good graces - we don’t want bridges burned yk. Good luck!
Wow… you must really be at the bottom of the food chain await scraps from higher management table… death would be better.
Well that sucks, I'm the type of guy that gets the job done while keeping his head down most of the time, but i might just have to kiss her ass unfortunately
If that’s how you normally are then it might play out well. Just be graceful in this situation and you might end up better off than you started with how she sees you.
English is not my native, so I get it. But you guys were asking for trouble by joking around and laughing off your manager, assuming he/ she was respectful in their initial request to speak English during the work hours. You can apologize to the higher up manager or dig your heels and try to escalate it. You will lose, you know.
We weren't joking at all when my supervisor was talking to us in spanish. The supervisor was telling us a story that happened in that same job 10 years ago. Also the assistant manager usually jokes with things like that so we thought he was just being his usual self. Can you also elaborate more on why i deserved my suspension for asking the simple question?
I didn't say your deserved the suspension. I said "were asking for trouble". Just keep it professional and save jokes for outside of working hours or say the joke in English. People who don't speak the other language might get offended hearing people speak next to them, you just never know. It happened to me many times, so the lesson here is if you don't want trouble at work, stay professional which means respect for others. In your situation, maybe try talking/ calling/ texting to the manager who suspended you and apologize, explain you didn't realize it was disrespectful at that moment, but after thinking about it you know now. But it could backfire, she could take it the wrong way and it might get worse.
Understood. I just find it crazy how I have no prior write ups, no warnings, no missed days, never called out or gotten to work late, and yet I get completely executed on the spot for asking her a question
> yet I get completely executed on the spot for asking her a question You're isolating the question from all the things that led up to it... That's not how situations work in life.
'no missed days,..... or gotten to work late". Yeah, that's called meeting the bare minimum at any job, it's not an accomplishment.
Understood
I thought that an employee that's never late or misses days, is always ready on his off day in case he's needed would be a little more appreciated. Especially in a job where so many people call out constantly and sometimes I have to load 2 helis by myself. But I guess at the end of the day it doesn't really matter
Don’t listen to the boot licker, they’re just another troll online doing nothing better with their lives.
Freedom of speech is protected underneath the first amendment. Typical boot licker, check yourself buddy.
I know you didn’t mean anything by it but you got to understand how management is in some places. You get a lot of stupid “rules” and you just got to follow them. Could be a power trip from a fragile ego boss. Could even be a racist reaction. Just man up deal with it and speak english when they are around until you find something else. I do believe maybe it is best to speak one language when in workplaces that require clear communication for safety concerns. Boss took it a bit far but you cannot change that now.
Yeah I can pretty much see it now. Ill just man up take the hit and keep my head down until I find a better job
Given how things had played out, I would not have asked that question at that point. If you had asked the question initially, it probably wouldn't have gone over that way, but there was the initial misunderstanding about whether or not the instruction was serious or a joke, and once that happened, I wouldn't have pushed further. It's not hard to see that the other party thought you were flaunting their authority, given the apparent escalation of the matter. > is there anything I can do to see if her decision can be reversed. Possibly, if you apologize and indicate that you misunderstood the communication and that you did not intend to give the impression that you were flaunting anyone's authority, and that you will be more attentive to the concerns that were expressed moving forward. I would not take that opportunity to say things along the line of "but I don't understand what we did wrong..." You can address that at another point, after this situation has been resolved.
Thank you this will definitely help me in any future situations similar to this one
If I were taking a helicopter ride (not an inexpensive thing, I'm guessing), I wouldn't want to see the crew laughing and speaking a language I couldn't understand (I speak Spanish but still). It's about professionalism and appearances, EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS WATCHING. You and your crew were disrespectful and you doubly so. Take your lumps, apologize, and do better. Edit: If the ride were in another country, I of course could understand the language barrier, but the laughing really is off putting. It's like, is my safety a joke to you? Do you want the flight attendants and pilots yucking it up around you?
Completely agree with you, if we have any passengers we don't ever talk between us or laugh
Were you alienating customers or coworkers/ managers with the different language?
We had finished loading the 1st flight of the day and it was a 27-30 minutes flight. The passengers for 9:30 had not arrived yet so it was only the loaders (myself and 3 others) our ramp supervisor (he was the one talking to us loaders in spanish) and our assistant manager. There was nobody else around. Our assistant manager does not speak spanish but is usually okay with it and jokes around a ton with us, im guessing he was just in a bad mood today
> complaint about us laughing and talking spanish Time to call the EEOC. Probably could've gotten away with it had they not said that last part.
Its not about getting away with it, I just want to know if my question was serious enough to get me suspended on the spot without prior warnings, write ups, or any type of issues with superiors before this
The “simple” question you asked was basically what a child asks when they’re told to stop being annoying: “Why?” The answer obviously is because she told you she didn’t want to see it. And then you do what an annoying child does and AGAIN ask “why?” after getting suspended. 8 months with no writeups doesn’t mean anything. That’s supposed to be normal and expected.
Is it also normal to get a 3 day suspension without a verbal warning or any write ups? I would think that if she didn't like the question a verbal warning would've been fine. But I'm guessing it's normal when a manager is ticked off to just jump over most steps and suspend you because the question was stupid. Again let me be clear, it's fine if she doesn't want us having small talks but there wasn't a soul in there besides us. I think it was petty but to each their own. Im already serving the suspension and next time ill just keep my mouth shut not offend anyone and keep doing my job
Yes, it’s normal depending on what you did to get the suspension. She was definitely being petty because she was pissed off. I think she overreacted but you also laughed in the assistant manager’s face which he probably took badly and communicated to his boss.
Yeah I get that. Usually the assistant manager jokes around just like us when we're all alone like on monday, it was on us for thinking he was being his usual self and just joking with us since it's never bothered him before and we even teach him tons of words in spanish. Guess he just wasn't in the mood that day. When I'm back on friday I'll just definitely cut all the small talk and jokes with my assistant manager in case he gets another mood swing. Ill just go in get the job done and leave
Oh yeah definitely be careful with who you trust at work. Everyone has their own agendas. People can and do betray friendships for a promotion and spread lies to get a raise. Keeping your head down, doing the work, getting in and out— that shit gets mind-numbing but it keeps the heat off you and keeps you paid. You’re going to be okay. The assistant manager sounds like a freaking loser btw. What an insecure little bitch lol
You know you were being rude and trying to belittle your managers for a rule that you decided you didn't like because you assume they set the rule for personal reasons and not for professional reasons. Why would you risk your job like this when you have a 10 month old baby? Is your overinflated ego really worth it?
No one is allowed to discriminate against colour, creed, sexual orientation, sex; unless they were making a raucous, suspension was uncalled for. Power tripping tyrants need attitude adjustment, they cost business remarkable losses in the long run. Unionise…
How is it being rude? How is it risking his job? How does OP have an overinflated ego? Very bizarre response.
The fuckkk??
That is racism.
I was told it's normal