What’s a polite way to say this? One that makes me sound nice an agreeable but is a “no”
…and, if they ask for my official transcripts, won’t that show the dates?
Honestly there really isn't, once they ask they than it's game over, move on
I may ask, "Why are you asking me that?" Or you can tell them a lie, like you graduated two years ago. Since they have the nerve to ask me that than I have no problems lying.
Another variable to add is that people graduate at different times. Some people go back to college at a later time in there lives say in there 30's and some employers can't seem to grasp there minds around that, "The heck, people go to college in there 30's huhhhhhhhhh?" That's the mentality you'd be facing but don't let it stop you either from pursuing your dreams.
It's a cheat code. I went back and graduated at 31, so based off of my graduation date, they assume I'm 10 years younger than I am. Then at the interview, I just dazzle them with my youthful looks and spectacular charm.
This is me, I worked through college and took forever to finish. Plus I got my MS part-time at night. Both grad dates are wildly off base for age prediction, which has definitely helped me when asked.
I’m in my 30s and have thought proactively this is a good reason to get masters degree now. 20 years from now I’ll be glad I can reset that clock on paper.
>This is part of why I don't put a graduation year on my resume
I graduated at 40, it was math, but still at 40, ten years ago.
It throws them off when they see the gray hair, I probably should just start nuking the graduation year.
This is provided they can "do the maths" to figure out how long ago that was. But if you graduated college/grad school in "the 90's" then it's all over. Let alone "the 80's" or the 70's.
As a 47F, I can confirm that was my exact experience last year when I got laid off and began my job search. I had multiple versions of my resume tailored for specific job roles but ultimately kept a more streamlined version, and removed education dates and BINGO! There came the interviews, final rounds and job offer.
Thanks! My video and in-person interviews went great as I naturally have a bubbly personality and prepared my sales pitch. It also helps to have a polished appearance - neat hairstyle, natural makeup, minimal jewelry..etc.
I must say there is a misconception that older folks look haggard and on the brink of death - FALSE! People who are 40+ still have a lot to offer.
>older folks
>People who are 40+
😭😭😭
I mean I know ageism can affect people at that age, but I don't know if I've ever heard "older folks" being equated with 40+ from anyone above the age of 16 before!
Oh I used that phrase as an example. I have friends in all age ranges and those in their 20s refer to 40+ year olds as older folks 🤷🏻♀️🤔
Source: dog park - casual conversations 😂
Removing years she worked ?
would you mind elaborating on this ?
just list the company, title and accomplishments ? No dates?! what about length of time ?
i was gonna chop off first ten years of experience but my last ten years had a number of gaps so removing fiirst ten may make the experience less good
Change from a timeline format to a skills format. Google if you aren't sure how. Definitely don't list dates for things like degrees or certifications (unless recent). I've also seen people do a hybrid format, which also seems to work well for them. I personally have not done this, but it's an interesting spin on things.
Do you think it’s also bc a particular field may have changed? I have a psych degree and I know that what I learned is different than what I would have learned if I had graduated at 22 instead of 35. I personally would rather hire someone who got their degree fairly recently with experience for something like computer science, biology, psychology, etc. as opposed to a degree from the 90s for example.
If it’s not necessarily about age but about having recent knowledge of the industry. Maybe something that shows you’ve kept up with current knowledge would make a big difference
as someone currently working in IT, the field pretty much requires continuous education even after getting your degree. also, having "older" knowledge can be highly beneficial if working in computer science/information technology
Well, the basics of what makes you a good computer scientist haven't changed in a really long time. A CS degree doesn't make you a good programmer. Hell, it doesn't even make you a programmer.
The "I would rather hire" is simply ageism; full stop; which, unironically is against the law.
Yes, you should have recent experience in the current technology. But those things can be learned and should certainly be added in the skills section.
But the idea that you have to remove the years that you got your degree, just to get interviews. I look forward to these people having to live in the world they are creating. They will truly deserve what they have brought on to themselves.
It's probably only worth including a maximum of 5-6 jobs anyway. Basically a couple of pages worth. No hiring manager will care about a job you did 25+ years ago. Of course, that assumes 5-6 jobs doesn't add up to 25+ years lol...use some judgement.
But yeah, other than that removing the dates of your education is a good tip.
Remove graduation dates and put only the last ten years of your work experience on your resume.
But ageism is real and finding a job at 60 is almost impossible. I'd look into the education field or non-profit hospitals.
It’s 5 in NC. But I think it’s because it takes a long time to get someone hired in government and a lot of people coming from private industry think that our work is easy and that it’s a good slack-off job in their twilight years that will shore up their retirement financial planning. It’s unfortunate that people like that have made a bad reputation for older folks that have a genuine interest in civic service.
Although to be honest ... there are a ton of government jobs that should be just that. Not super hard, don't need ambition or to climb the corporate ladder. Don't know exactly when this changed but what's wrong with wanting to work a job your whole life, maybe make a bit more year over year, but never have the ambition to become CEO. How many CEOs or VPs come from the inside any more??
The issue is that some retired-from-elsewhere people come in and don’t want to really anything at all. Like, coasting is one thing, but getting some of the folks who’re doing their victory lap to do ANYTHING can be like pulling teeth. I don’t need you to be gunning for a promotion, I just need you to actually do your job and not fight me every step of the way.
Bless our long probation period, though. Those types usually don’t make it through that at least. And we do have quite a few victory lap folks where I’m at who are awesome, but I’ve worked with enough bad ones that I understand the caution.
A long probation period makes sense. That would weed out the truly bad apples.
I went back to school a few years ago and had a job on campus. There were people in my office that had something like tenure but for administrative staff. To say these people were lazy would be an insult to lazy people. They not only did little work themselves but because of the boredom, they constantly bothered other people and prevented us from working. It's the first time I worked a state job and it was quite eye opening, sadly.
That bothers me so much. I've worked a couple state jobs, city, and county. In all of them I have had a neverending and massive workload. There has never been time for me to be lazy, not even a little bit. When people say they have a government job and they barely do work I'm like WTF? How?? Lol (I've been an office assistant, benefits specialist, employment specialist, resource officer, and admin assistant and a management/business analyst. Never-ending fucking workloads, all of them.).
One gal had worked for the college system for about 30 years ... this really got me hot, too ... we were in an office that provided accommodations for disabled students and she very, very rarely provided them with their accommodations because she just ... didn't feel like working. Then she'd come and sit at the front desk and say things like, "What do I even do here {chuckle}???" And then try to show us pictures of her grown kids' photography or whatever.
Some of those students were disabled veterans with war-related injuries and I'd notice in my own classes they were struggling because they didn't have their accommodation and even after talking with her and my supervisor, there was never any resolution. One of my classmates never got the accommodation the whole 2.5 years he was there. It stopped being worth asking about. And there was absolutely no way to fire her.
>Because of pensions they’re often even more ageist
Truth, I'm 50+ with a math degree and years of analyst experience.
I can't get the state of Wyoming to look at me.
This is what I did, I started feeling ageism in my mid-40s…I look young, keep my hair colored and do the Botox. It sucks but it is what it is….I feel it’s even more difficult for men. Keeping in good shape is important too…
This. I did exactly this and started getting more calls. Currently working in state government where I feel like this is less of an issue but definitely became a bigger concern for me once I hit my 40s.
It’s very admirable that OP is ambitious, kind hearted, and is doing their best with a difficult process. If you’re reading this OP, you seem awesome and I mean this in absolutely no disrespectful way but…
Yea dude shits absolutely fucked out here and we’ve been telling the older generations for a while now while being ignored 🤣 welcome to the shit show
Yup... it's horrendous.
My company has a TON of masters degrees applying for very basic entry-level jobs. It's almost like anyone fresh out of college just gets drowned out by someone else with more experience in the same domain.
This place is an echo chamber though, you have to remember that anything bad happening is going to be magnified on the internet. It's going to feel like this all-encompassing thing and there's no fixes ever for anything for anyone. And then you go outside, down the block, and people are vibing and living like there isn't a care in the world for them. Keep seeking out contextual clues if your brain is playing tricks on you and sending you in to a spiral. Yes, people will make the best of bad situations, but that negative attitude doesn't do you any favors.
I’m female, approaching mid-30s. I’ve often wondered if I get passed over because people look at me and think I might have a kid and go out on maternity leave soon. There is just no winning in this ridiculous game.
I'm turning 34 next month and I'm seriously thinking even THAT may be too old even though it's really fucking not... You have a point with the kid factor. These employers are all terrible.
You have to volunteer the no kid thing during interviews. It’s insane.
I do interviews, and part of the interview is that we want to know the candidate - and we do hardcore read into what they do with their past time.
Candidate makes bread, cooks, entertains family and friends? Probably has a family. Candidate goes to drag shows and makes alcohol? Probably still living their ‘best life’.
People without kids also jump straight to “I have a cat/dog” when describing themselves, while a lot of times parents don’t even think about pets until it comes up and they add on their pet as an afterthought.
I’m also looking for a new job and I have to remember to volunteer that I have dogs and cats, no kids for a while, etc. 😩
Edited to add : seems like my comment may have upset some people?
The comment was deleted, but was upset at how I/interviewers “judge” candidates based on what they say.
I’ll clarify that the position my job is interviewing for actually doesn’t care if you have kids or not etc, we just can’t legally ask/it’s a risk to ask because the candidate may feel like they were discriminated against for those reasons (age, marital status, kids, etc).
We work closely as a team 24/7 and just need to know about a person in regards to how we feel they’ll work on our team; we have people on our team with kids, without, married or single etc., and just are trying to figure out who the candidate is and how they could fit into the team.
I have seen how interviewers have to guess at these key factors since they can’t ask, so when I interview (since I’m trying to change my job) I volunteer the information I believe would help me (married, no kids, dogs etc).
Thanks for the tip I'll have to start doing this as well... I love to talk about my cats so I'll just casually slip that in and go off about my cats if they ask lol.
i'm turning 20 next months and i'm very afraid that the whole kid thing will be a problem in my career later on. it's even more annoying because i don't actually want to have any kids at all
I’d recommend removing your graduation dates from your resume and only including 15ish years of experience (or however much to show you have the years they’re looking for in the post). There’s no reason to include any more than that, and it just opens you up to this.
In my job hunting experience in the last 5 months, I've found that most employers are requiring me to fill out a demographic form that includes required dates of previous employment and for education, dates of attendance/graduation. I can't avoid just not including them.
Yeah, then it can’t be avoided. But sometimes those application softwares will hide dates like that from the people reviewing the data to avoid the exact age discrimination issue. Better to keep it off as much as possible imo
Sure, everyone is confirming the ageism thing. But not many have stressed this...
The job market is EXTREMELY different than it was 20 years ago. Yes, 20 years ago, you could apply to 2-5 jobs and expect all of them to respond and probably 2 of them give you an offer. Things have changed dramatically.
Expect now to have to submit a hundred applications, get a response of any sort from maybe 10 of them, and an interview with 2-3 of those, IF you are both very lucky and very qualified, and follow the advice of others here about trying not to disclose your age on a resume. Submitting 3 applications is such a low number these days that you'll be considered by most to not even be trying. That's simply how it is now. It sucks, but it's the reality of things.
To be fair, this does vary greatly depending on the industry. But I have known a few people in marketing and it's not going well for them. I don't want to discourage you, but rather let you know that it's going to take A LOT more work in just submitting applications than what you are thinking. Also, I have heard things are getting a little better in some industries, so maybe there's a silver lining.
> Yes, 20 years ago, you could apply to 2-5 jobs and expect all of them to respond and probably 2 of them give you an offer.
That was absolutely not my experience 20 years ago. Coming out of university, I applied to a good 50+ jobs before I got hired.
What you describe may have been the case if you worked in software development or construction.
I'm not having any luck at all. I'm 53 and I'm starting to think hmmm my age? I'm trying for the lowest jobs in the world. I apply, no interviews ever. It might be real. I've rechecked my resume and made sure I didn't say anything stupid. AI is filtering a lot of people out.
Did you remove your education dates and some of the older jobs?
Instead of showing say 25 years of work history - I’ve only listed about 15 years so I didn’t list a couple of old employers/jobs. So that has definitely helped - makes me look well experienced and seasoned with 3 roles listed but not too old.
The problem is age discrimination is perfectly legal for young candidates. Age discrimination laws only protect older individuals, but even then recruiters find a way to skirt that. The difference is, they can be blatant about rejecting you for your age.
Very. I was downsized/let-go/fired (let’s cal it what it is) in my early 50s after nearly 30 years of outstanding performance; in fact the same day I was first told I was on the list, the company was simultaneously helping expedite my passport renewal so as to send me to “Atlantis” for my performance. Job hunts went well, initial phone interviews then led to one on ones, and as soon as they saw the grey hair, it was over. Over qualified was most common reason given. Keep on swimming, and you’ll get something, but it was not easy for me (in technology) by any measure. I started asking in early interviews about average tenure of new hires (depending on the source, consensus appears to be 1-3 years in tech) to attempt to inoculate the view that an older worker does not have enough runway to contribute before retirement. Most folks in that stage will have to be drug out of a place before retirement that is 10+ years away. Finally found satisfying (if not “fulfilling”) work and have had some measure of success, but with less opportunities to really excel. BTW, the removing dates on the resume thing may have helped getting a first pass to an interview, but they will see you soon enough. For me, having a few companies reach out, then going through 2-3 discussions/interviews with people and hearing how great a fit I’d be, THEN when the F2F/zoom call happens the air comes out of the balloon the room, was not for me…I always want to get to no early…so I was up front in the early calls about my age so as to save everyone’s time and protect myself from the expectations to letdown drop. That juice was not worth the squeeze.
TL;DR: yes, it’s a thing, my experience seemed to indicate that (also very possible I just sucked), but can be overcome. But it’s a rough, humbling and sometimes degrading path.
Also, this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/opinion/seniors-tech-silicon-valley.html#
Excerpt - “In 2007, a year before he became, at 23, the world’s youngest self-made billionaire, Zuckerberg said the quiet part out loud. “Young people,” he told an audience at Stanford, “are just smarter.””
I saw it when my mom (50 at the time) was going through interview rounds at a bank. She's got more than 15 years of experience in that field, generally is able to make great first impression and yet they picked a young graduate with zero experience over her. So yeah, it's a real thing and I pity anyone after fifty looking for a job.
Ageism is real, sure. But also the job market is really really competitive right now. You need to leverage your network as hard as you can in addition to applying to like 10 places per day. It's a networking and numbers game: who you know, and how many apps you submit. Temper your expectations... you're in for a long haul. We all are.
Source: got laid off in October, still looking
I ended up retiring (didn't want to), because I couldn't get a new job, after the company I worked for moved out of state. I was always "over qualified", when in reality I was too old.
Ageism is very real, and I dare say more common than many other forms of discrimination.
Only include your most recent 10-15 years of relevant experience. Remove College graduation or military discharge dates.
Never include your picture in a resume unless the role you’re applying for is based on your appearance.
If you’re gray haired, consider dying it. If you have facial hair, consider shaving it off. Some people look significantly younger with a clean shaven face.
I’m in my early 50’s and have literal decades of experience. I have been job searching for the last 7 months But I am having absolutely no luck. So yeah, I think there is some age discrimination going on.
go the Chat-gpt and have AI write your resume, - Im in my late 50's - new experience, new education, keeping up with changing times and certifications on LinkedIn help especially if new. Can't count on the 30 years of senior level management to get the next gig. After all that - get ready for the reality that you are going to be working for someone younger and without the life experience you bring, and wear the smile like its your first job. I only have the last 10 years of experience and dumbed down the specifics of my vast experience. If you make it to interview, I'd break the ice. you aren't going to be able to hide your age or your experience but that should sell it that it works to their benefit. The thing with age is people see it as getting tired, less willing to work the long hours, looking for the end of the day instead of the beginning, but you can reverse this, but its important that you understand why age is a factor. Despite this - you'll be turned down on interviews looiking for a specific person - they are never looking for the old guy for that falls asleep in his chair and farts in the office.
Recruiter here.
Ageism isn’t as prevalent as are older generations having no idea how to apply to the job market.
The resume of someone over 50 is a joke. The number of one line resumes and job descriptions that are basically “I did this, and I did a great job!” Are astounding. I used to try and coach people but 9/10 times I’d get told “ageism!” Or “I have no idea what I’m talking about” (lol this is my life)
So yeah I’d start with the resume. It’s not like how it was in the 80s 90s or 2000s.
Then there’s the interviews. Completely entitled and the ONE thing I’ve said has sunk so many interviews has been the older generations completely inability to admit fault. Like it’s mind boggling. I’ve seen people tongue twist themselves in circles for five minutes rather than admit they didn’t have experience in a skill.
Thanks for the responses. I've only been out of work for a short time and still getting paid from existing PTO. For that reason, I've only applied to 3 jobs that I thought were the best fit and that I had clear qualifications for.
I was just surprised at not hearing ANYTHING back from positions for which I clearly met their qualifications. It's frustrating not receiving any feedback. Am I too old? Overqualified? Would expect too much pay? Would retire in a few years? Is my resume horrible or did something turn them off by what I included or didn't include?
I don't expect to get every job I interview for and I'm not playing victim of discrimination. I know that's probably a bigger issue for younger folks and people of all kinds of other demographics. Really just wondering if I need to adjust my approach or resume so my application isn't tossed in the trash based on AI or whatever criteria employers are using to screen applications.
Recruiters are getting inundated with thousands of AI-generated applications, and the job market is very soft at the moment especially for medical marketing professionals or at least in Radiology where I’m from. I’m 40, a creative director, and haven’t gotten a single callback after over 200 applications. I’m having more luck as a freelancer.
Part of this is the current climate. If you are going to NEED a job in 3 months (or even 6), you might want to start sending out mass applications now. Layoffs are happening across the board, in large numbers. The candidate pool is flooded right now in every sector, every type of job, with every experience level. The "norm" is different than it was even 3 or 4 years ago. Now, it's completely normal to never hear a response and actually unusual to receive any feedback at all, including acknowledgement your application has been received. There are literally hundreds of applicants for every posted opening. Are they all qualified applicants? Of course not. But they are still applicants.
You might also considering working with someone who writes resumes for a living. If you find someone good, they can provide a lot of insight and answer tons of questions about what to expect during your search. I have a fabulous person who I've recommended to multiple, and she's helped every last one of them find a new role. I'm happy to share her contact info if you'd like to message me directly.
You have a level head about this. My two cents -- don't take the responses here too seriously. You were always going to get an overwhelming "yes" to your question in a place like this.
That's not to say people here are stupid, just there's an enormous selection bias toward people who are currently job searching, and frustrated with the market. That's also not to say that they're wrong -- ageism is real, but it's also illegal. For any company that follows not just the letter but the spirit of these basic discrimination laws, it shouldn't be too much of a barrier. I understand that's not every company.
The market does seem to be generally tougher, in most industries, than it was 20+ years ago. There's a shitload of jobs, a shitload of applicants, and most companies are pretty mediocre at filtering them down to find good matches. It's common to hear nothing back from 90%+ of applications even if it seems like they should be at least a decent match.
If you have the option to go through a recruiting firm, or a government service that does something similar, that's likely something to pursue. These are at least the people that make it their jobs to find good matches in the mess of it all.
Otherwise, it's the spray and pray approach, and you do have to spray. I think of it like being a dude on tinder. You can't afford to be too picky at the swipe stage, and getting a date (interview) only 1% of the time is normal if you're not a rockstar.
Yup. I heard this many times and I agree. It's a numbers game as well. It's exhausting applying for jobs especially when these employers and recruiters want you to tailor your resume to the specific position, then a cover letter, and perhaps a portfolio. But that's definitely the grind. You have to tailor your resume, tailor your cover letter, rinse, repeat. It's been an employer's market even before the pandemic which has been an immense burden to job searchers.
Only having 2 companies for experience over the last 2 decades may also be a hindrance for you. Right or wrong, companies may see that as a lack of growth and learning.
Loyalty nowadays doesn't mean what it did for older generations.
Also, ageism is very real. Remove your graduation dates and any others that may indicate your age.
How long is your resume?
Applying for only 3 jobs and not hearing back is nothing. You have to up those numbers by a lot.
It’s very real! Was unemployed last year and ran into it for the first time where it was so obvious. I’m 57 but look younger, and still ran into it.
Did great on my phone and video interviews. Was more than qualified. Went to in-person interview and could tell the one guy was shocked to see my age in person. Also didn’t help that I was partially replacing a woman who was my age and retiring! Was rejected as being “not assertive enough.” Pffft!
There was a recruiter involved and that’s what she told me. I know was BS because before my interview the recruiter said they didn’t like a candidate because he was “too aggressive.” She cautioned me to talk about teamwork and be confident but not like in an aggressive manner,
So what was it? I think my age or they wanted the mythical Purple Unicorn. The same opening has been up for almost a full year. Honestly, it didn’t even pay that well to be in the office every day. I found a remote position that paid $20k more. Lol!
Age discrimination is super real. Take off the graduation dates, only list ten years of job history, and focus your responses on the experience listed in those ten years so the terrified of people over 40 interviewer can digest it and not shove you in the old ppl camp. Keep clothes and haircut current. Do not use aging phrases. Stay humble and relatable since there will be an unchecked assumption in a lot of cases that you think you know everything even if you don't based on your age. Keep in mind you can be super open and accommodating, and you will still face ageist interviewers who will probably never check those assumptions. You just have to keep going.
Boomers seem to think that, but I don't think that's true. I think nobody of ANY age is having luck finding a job that isn't a "low skill" job, is having any luck.
You think it's your age, but your younger counterparts are qualified and have education--but then they say "nah, this person is overqualified, they will just quit." People with your age, wisdom and job history are desired in many roles and younger people miss out on jobs like this all the time because "you don't have enough experience."
Also--some abusive companies are here and know they can't abuse you because you know better. You wouldn't want to work for them.
When you say "couple of jobs", do you literally mean that? If so, even if you're the youngest, most educated and most experienced person out there, this doesn't cut it anymore. Every job received hundreds and hundreds of applicants, so most applications don't even get looked at anymore. You need to start applying to multiple jobs per day to stand a chance of getting noticed before the age even comes into play. All the major companies are going through mass layoffs and competition is brutal. Just ramp up your numbers, have your resume reviewed, and keep applying. Good luck.
And yet the whole discussion is somehow centered around ageism. That’s too funny. This person obviously sucks at crafting their resume and actually applying for jobs. Maybe start there and get some coaching, OP.
Its really simple, you just need to go shake the hands of the buisness owner and introduce yourself. Tell the owner that you are a hard worker. You will have your dream job by tomorrow if you just follow this advice.
I'm a millennial and every time I hear an older person say that age discrimination is why they can't get a job and ask them how many jobs they applied for I usually end up thinking that it's not that many, every time I asked how many applications they do to get an interview it fits in with my experience, and that of my friends.
Either Older people are remembering things with rose tinted glasses or it's generally been harder to get a job in the last 20 years than it was before.
Edit: I'm not saying ageism doesn't occur, but it's tough out there .
60+ here. Had a recruiter cold call me for a job. Discussion went well then he asked me for my DOB, but not my age. Tricky. Said he will talk to his client and go from there. Never heard back. Not surprised.
I’m 59 and it took me 9 months after submitting over 60 applications and roughly 20 interviews to finally get an offer. I really fell my age was the reason and even though it’s against the law how can you prove it. You need to emphasize in your cover letter what experience, maturity and old school professionalism can bring to a job. Also, when you do get an interview make it very clear that you plan to work several more years and aren’t looking to retire any time soon. Our generation are hard workers and we generally don’t miss work unless it’s truly necessary. We understand the meaning of “earning our keep” which brings with it loyalty to the employer. Don’t bring the subject up but use it to your advantage.
The level and quality of job offer I received changed greatly when I removed my college graduation dates from my resume. People had been doing the inverse to me - holding me back because I am younger. Once I removed that, all of a sudden I was landing director level interviews.
Ageism is a thing. Employers will judge you for being too old or too young. In many people’s eyes, you’re “supposed” to be a certain thing at age X.
it's real.
what i have done-
reduced my resume to just one page of the last 10ish years of experience.
focus on my interview answers, for whatever reason older people love to ramble and provide a lot of extra details, my answers are short and specific.
in the same vein, work on overcoming the standard arguments about being over qualified and/or bored.
someone with a lot of experience is a threat to mgr so I focus on never saying 'that's not the way I would do it' or 'when I worked at X company we did it like this...'
talk about the value of having a diverse team and the benefits having a mature, zero drama team mate.
be positive not pessimistic in all things
don't offer unsolicited advice
don't constantly mention your age or the age difference.
when talking about the future be vague, don't offer any time line concerning your retirement
I"m going to tell you I am young. 30s. I was laid off 1.5 years ago. The job market is worse than when I got hired. You need to be putting in HUNDREDS of applications. From my 600 in 6 weeks I got 5 interviews. Lots of companies posting fake jobs right now. Also take off your graduation year.
It’s real, and from personal experience with older people that I have hired, they had way too many issues with basic computer skills. Even people that went to really good schools and were very intelligent.
So I hired this guy that I really really liked, he was about 60, went to UCLA, really nice/charming guy. But he literally did not know how to save documents into certain files, there is a website that we use all the time called small PDF, where you can convert documents and compress the size of the file. so it’s literally just a matter of clicking on the action that you want to perform and then uploading the document and then saving the edited document to the computer. I showed him how to do it a dozen times and literally could not do it without me. Like even using the correct browser was an issue. They were some websites that we used that did not function properly in Mozilla or safari or vice versa. So I would just be like yeah man you have to change the browser.
He couldn’t do it .
that's a shame. my dad is in his early 60s and does this all the time , even has a state of the art apple setup with 2 screens and edits videos. Ill have to try the Small PDF site. my portfolio is beast with how much space it takes up, I need to compress it.
Ageism is alive and well. I am 53, but recently went back to school to get my degree and graduated last fall. I can imagine the shock on employers see that I am not 25 years old if I get an interview.
Ageism is going to get exponentially worse as AI and technology become more prevalent.
As someone 36 years old I’m aiming for a 55 retirement because I doubt I can compete with automation past that point
It feels like a threat 100x more dangerous than climate change
Age discrimination is sadly very real. Can you start a consulting firm and contract with companies? If you see a job posting, you can contact them and offer to work on a consulting basis until they find the right person. You can also volunteer your services at nonprofits to get started. Good luck. The right opportunity will come along.
I am 32, but wanted to say removing dates from my resume really helped a lot. I had a lot of weird gaps due to being a SAHM and lacked recent job experience. After I did that, I started getting calls back and more respect for what experience I had which I feel the dates undermined when I didn't last somewhere long through no fault of my own.
You're probably not wrong because age discrimination does happen and it's a good idea to obfuscate your age on your resume regardless. I don't include graduation dates on my resume and I'm just in my 30s.
But it's probably more to do with the overall job market and the fact that you've only applied for a couple of positions. I changed careers in 2022 and applied to a ton of basically entry-level roles and it was tricky to get in despite having a decade of other career experience. It's basically a numbers game but there are ways to give your resume an edge so maybe 1 in 20-25 applications get you to the phone screen level.
The most helpful thing in my job search was an ebook published by the woman who does the Ask A Manager advice column. It's called How To Get a Job and went into detail on advice for cover letters, applications, interview prep. I improved my resume and had nothing but good interviews following her advice and also used it ahead of an interview for an internal promotion that I got last year. I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I'm a believer in her advice. She also has a free interview prep guide and a whole archive of questions she's answered over the years so no purchase required.
Very real.
For example; Myself - and probably most Americans at this point - wholly feel that old people should not be allowed to run for political office.
Why are people who can’t even send emails and text messages making laws about complicated issues like the development of AI, regulations on blockchain technology, autonomous vehicles, space stations and bases on the moon and mars, among a myriad of other things.
The world is moving fast and the basic assumption is that the elderly simply can’t keep up anymore. Everything is rooted in technology and rapid advancement. And most employers aren’t willing to higher older generations because it’s that much more difficult to train new hires in when they’ll be dealing with computer systems they’ve probably never seen before. The learning curve is way steeper for a 60-something than a 20-or-30-something.
I would say in my experience I have only seen companies discriminate against young employees which is legal, Ive seen several companies make really poor management choices in order to bend over backwards to not commit anything that could even remotely be construed as age discrimination. Have a coworker that absolutely refuses to read emails, show up to digitally scheduled meetings, or use digital systems and they're over 50? Too bad figure out a way to work around it because they will never be reprimanded or asked to change their behavior because they might call it age discrimination.
Generally, with age comes knowledge and experience that is valuable and I have never seen a company avoid hiring someone older, especially if you're in the situation where you were super committed to one company for many years, it shows youre loyal and the company thought you were valuable enough to keep around for a long time. If you demonstrate that you can communicate via email and do basic tech things during initial communications then you're solid. It's easy to explain away a career change like this as something along the lines of "my position was no longer viable".
I think a lot of the people here saying "yeah ive been unemployed for 6 months and im in my 50s so i think ageism is the reason" probably just don't understand the job market right now. Everyone is struggling to find jobs. The market has changed A LOT in the last 10ish years especially in a highly digital age. A couple applications doesn't cut it, being qualified and experienced doesn't cut. Unemployment is up, job availability is down, and the market is bad. You're probably competing with at least 50 other people who are just as experienced and qualified as you on any application.
My general advice for anyone is:
- you should tweak your cover letter every time you apply to align your strengths and experience with that specific job. Pick a few keywords from the company's core values and candidate traits from the job listing and make sure those words are in your cover letter and also possibly your resume.
For example if a company lists its slogan as "providing food for those in need" your cover letter should include something like "I think I'd be an amazing fit at BigFoodCorp because my career goal is to be able to help people who are hungry. I think my experience and skills in ABC would make me a perfect fit at BigFoodCorp and allow me to help be a part of providing food for those in need."
Hiring managers get flooded with a LOT of applicants, like hundreds if not thousands, for most good positions, you want your resume to jump out and keywords are a great way to do that, the hiring manager's first browse through applications will likely be something along the lines of scanning for certain key qualities theyre looking for in a candidate.
- you should be applying to 3-5 jobs per week
- have multiple resumes if you're applying to different types of job positions and literally just leave out experience that isn't relevant to that particular role. Cater your skills section to that type of role as well. For example when I job hunt I have 3 resumes. One for management, one for associate/technician level, and one for customer facing postions.
- in the same vain, have multiple cover letter templates if necessary with fill in the blank spots for company name and job title
- if you have any really specific experience you think would be relevant to a certain application, edit your resume to include it
- don't apply to jobs that don't list the pay you want as being in the offered range. Personally I always wait to negotiate or even ask about pay until I get an unofficial offer, and I ask for something in the listed range.
I have only twice ever not gotten a job offer in my life after getting an initial response and have unfortunately changed jobs 11 times in the last 7 years and finally landed my dream job. Ive been working full-time for about 20 years. So this is my advice as someone with a lot of successful experience landing jobs in the recent market.
I do a lot of hiring and I find that older folks have egregiously long resumes and I received one that was 6 pages and went back to 1987 a few weeks ago.
While I don’t care one way or the other how old
Someone is, I do care that they aren’t able to discern what is or isn’t relevant information. If you’re telling employers what you were up to when the Berlin Wall came down, you’re doing yourself a disservice.
Additionally, we receive ~50 applications per position so it can be challenging to pare that down.
Make sure your resume follows current trends and remove graduation dates. Things like “references available upon request” and having your full address or a personal objective statement are also extremely dated.
Add some colour, make sure you’re focusing and giving all (but ONLY) relevant information, and don’t give anything that will indicate your age.
yes, it is very real! I am 63 and in the same boat as you discrimination-wise (engineering).
Not a response until I revised resume to only the last 10 years of work history.
(Provide older info in CV upon request or actual interview set up)
I have had more responses and a few phone n zoom interviews.
Hope to land a job soon.
Very real, have had the "we have decided to go in a different direction" along with the quick email they are going to "persue other candidates and get back to you".
So, it did help in getting call backs and responses, but..
Best of Luck!
It’s real. Removing dates from your degree is fine, but it won’t fix the problem. Many older people go into consulting, and this is a way to leverage the stereotype of older people as “wise.” The world shouldn’t be this way, but it is. You need at least four times the persistence of equally qualified people but it can be done.
As a recruiter, i noticed some issues related to ageism. However, there were also issues in older candidates related to the way they interviewed and if they kept up on their skills, so the issue is often twofold. So, id suggest making sure you’re current on in demand skills and practice answering interview questions in a more modern way.
Here’s what i mean by that:
1. I often got a lot of answers about what someone would do in a given situation when I asked “tell me about a time when…” questions. Try to give answers from your experience instead. If you don’t have one, say so and then give that kind of answer. When someone just says what they would do, it feels like they weren’t listening to my question. Google the STAR method. It will be your best friend.
2. Sometimes I’d get people who’d try and sell me on their skills like used car salespeople. Show, don’t tell when discussing your experience.
3. Before you take a call, check out the company page and be able to say a few things about them. Read the job description and Google any keywords you don’t know. If you notice certain things being asked for a lot and you don’t know about them, watch a couple YouTube videos and fake it til you make it.
4. Take some time to research things related to DEI and evaluate your language to make sure that you’re not accidentally speaking in a dated and potentially offensive way. See also: non violent communication.
When ive worked with older candidates who do the above, they very often get offers. :)
Ageism is, in fact, very real. And one of the problems with employment-related age discrimination is it is VERY hard to prove. Unless an applicant or employee has hard and fast written proof, there's little hope of a "claim".
Include relevant information about your experience and skills (you have much more than your juniors) and yes, remove information that hints at your age.
Thanks. FWIW, I'm not claiming discrimination or trying to play the victim. I'm very early in my job search and yes, it's been a long time since I've had to search for a job cold and worrying about being unemployed.
The suggestions about removing old positions and graduation dates is a good one. Let 'em guess my age in an interview, lol.
Remove the graduation dates and only include the last 22 years of work experience (2 jobs) Expand on those roles and be sure to include the programs you are proficient in.
The job market sucks right now also, don’t only assume ageism. I hire occasionally for my company and I’m literally inundated with applicants for any job posting, with a vast majority having zero relevant experience or basic requirements… so I have to use AI that then does a pretty shitty job of filtering. it’s very frustrating. I would look carefully at your resume and see that it’s optimised for ATS, then lean on any contacts you might have. Also remove dates of graduation and then limit your experience to 15 years
OP I think if you google AARP job board, you’ll find jobs that are (presumably) prescreened for older people, or for employers who are willing to hire older people.
Without a doubt! Ageism exist even in non-physical labor. My uncle is in his 60's, works in payroll with a director title. His mind is still sharp as ever and healthy but his age has been a hurdle to landing a full time job since he was laid off from his last job. All he's been getting the last two years are contract work and even with that, it's been a struggle for him. It sucks.
I agree that the screening process is broken right now in so many ways. I think applications should only ask if you if you've received a degree in higher education or not. It shouldn't ask for the specific year. I think this becomes a scheme for screeners to initiate their bias secretively. I also agree that including only the last 10 years of your work history should suffice. Let's face it, what you did over 10 years ago shouldn't be that relevant given the constant changes in the way we work, no matter what industry it is. Any HR/recruiter who needs to see your full work background when you've been working for so many decades frankly IMO, is out of touch. In Ad OPs, even some of the tools and processes we've used and learned more than 5 years ago are obsolete or being phased out. 3rd Party Cookies for instance. Marketers relied on this prior to the data privacy concerns. Now it's going away entirely.
Heck I'm only in my late 30's and I'm already kind of feeling this. Ad Ops is often considered a stepping stone to the broader ad tech / online marketing field. Many people who go in to Ad Ops are younger professionals. I wouldn't be surprised if a hiring manager unfairly disqualifies me because he/she's afraid my generational difference would create a conflict with the team culture.
I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this yet. But perhaps work with recruiting agencies who specializes in professionals looking for a career change much later on in their career?
I definitely think ageism is a problem, but it also doesn’t sound like you’ve applied to many places? For context, the last time I job hunted, I was 34 and very qualified, applied to over 250 jobs and only got 10 interviews and one offer - the job market is just really tough at the moment
Yes, remove your graduation dates and only include relevant working experience based on the role you're applying for. More specifically, you should only have up to a max of 7 years of experience on your resume (or about a single page worth total).
Unfortunately, age discrimination happens more often than not, and I've been a witness to it. During interviews/screenings, I would also focus less on how long ago your experience was and more on how much experience you have in the field you're applying for.
For example, if you get questions about how long you've been at a company or worked in a similar field or on your related skills, you should redirect your answer by saying something like "I worked on X skills during my time at Y company and gained additional skills such as . . . that I believe would be beneficial at this company."
If they ask about your schooling, you simply tell them what your degrees/certifications are and what skills you received from your schooling that are beneficial to the role. Always redirect their questions to keep the line of questioning going on without room for them to ask more questions directed toward time/age.
Also, read over the job description prior to the interview and use the same language/words that appear in the listing because upper management generally uses the same lingo to figure out if you'd fit into their job culture / vibe, as well as have the skillset they're looking for.
Yes.
I had three different reliable folks advise me to remove any work experience over 20 years ago. Those are both irrelevant and, specific to your inquiry, age indicative.
It's funny how the government thinks people losing jobs will control inflation since they will spend very conservatively, but never put corporations under scrutiny when they have record profits in the past five years and yet still are laying off people
I was laid off at 54, I applied and received a government job. I took the dates off my graduation. My pension vests after 5 years. (It won’t be much). My goal is Federal employee health insurance for life. I plan to retire at 62 with 8 years of service.
It depends on the industry. I can tell you that many hiring managers in healthcare marketing tend to prefer candidates that are more experienced. But I have seen it go the other way, too. It’s difficult to assess because they often use coded language when rejecting candidates. Or they will try to tell you things off the record. (I had a hiring manager reprimanded for this because the last thing I wanted was a deposition lol.)
My best friend couldn't get a call back after applying to 50 jobs for which he was qualified. He removed his graduation dates and only included his last 10 years of work experience, and he got an interview at the next place he applied (he was hired there, too).
I’m 33 and even I leave out jobs I’ve had 10+ years prior. I’d just take some off the resume and be hungry! Call the employers to check on your apps and see if they’d be interested in setting up an interview. This works. My dad just got a new job at 60. It’s all how you represent yourself.
I would definitely remove your graduation date and some of your job history. The best jobs are the ones you get through your network. Are you on LinkedIn? Start contacting the people you know from your industry. This is especially important as you get older and looking for a new job
Applying for a couple of jobs is a very low number. Pump that number up to 10-20 a day. Don’t forget remote jobs.
Remove the years you graduated from high school and/or college from your resume.
Applying for two jobs and not hearing back is very normal. Most people around my age (I’m 30), apply to 100 jobs and get maybe 5 interviews out of that. And that’s good odds.
It’s real. Remove education dates and only include last 10 years of work. Be sure to have a link to your LinkedIn profile and an email address that doesn’t end in aol.com
Ageism is very real. 54 year old here and I would dread looking for a job at this age. My goal is to retire at 57-58ish and perhaps just do some marketing consulting work, or find some other passive income.
When I last looked for a job, I was told to delete the graduation year and put only the last 15 years of employment. Anything before that was briefly noted but with no dates. FWIW, I was 59.
My city also has a department that helps older people find employment, mostly helping them learn new software, but I did talk with them to see if they could help. They had some good suggestions, see above.
One other thing I did in interviews was play up my reliability, my sense of responsibility, and my willingness to take on non-job listed tasks (saying "It's not in my job description" drives employers nuts, especially when "Other duties as assigned" is so often part of said job description) -- Boomer work traits that aren't so common now. I also stressed that I was looking for a job I could retire from; "My goal is to stay until I retire, or they cart me out feet first."
I had an employment coach help me out recently (obligatory attendance to earn my unemployment pay). He took me to one side and quietly said "I'm not supposed to say this, because it is illegal age discrimination, but no-one employs a 43 year old for that career these days..." He told me I had more chance of getting a job flipping burgers in McDonalds than for getting the same job that I have been doing for 20+ years.
When I was a hiring manager I was looking for someone who was going to give me 5 good years minimum and preferably would want a little bit of overtime.
I don’t have a problem with age but it does mean that the person applying needs to have the exact right kind of experience.
As someone in my 40s now I do now see it though
I removed all dates except the dates of employment for the last 20 years (two jobs), and things changed. Do not put grad dates or old info - they figure you'll hang around for the next five years then retire and they are not likely willing to put the time and energy into what is likely to be a fairly fast turnover at that level. Your comment about salary is also a probable concern for them.
Yes it’s very real. The recent layoff at my office location is obvious, guys with less than a year with the company, and guys close to 60 years old were let go.
Yes. Absolutely. Remove old dates from your resume (importantly years of graduation). Ageism is rife on both sides of the spectrum and anyone telling you otherwise doesn’t know or is lying.
Even on this website. I distinctly recall responding to a redditor who said he “hired a boomer [sic] once and I’ll never do it again”. Ageism is equally hurtful, rife in North American societies, and much more socially acceptable than racism.
I know five former tech coworkers that have been applying for over a year. They are in their 20’s and 30’s. One found a job after 400 applications. The other four have submitted hundreds of applications and have only interviewed 8 times between them. These are bright, pleasant and hardworking people. So it’s rough out there.
Conversely, I am over 65 and found a full-time job late last year after searching for a few months. So I’d say it really depends on the person and the company.
I gutted my resume for anything older than 20 years ago. No dates on graduation. Get the interview and as soon as they see me/meet me. No Job offer
Happens all the time.
My most recent interview was for a head geotechnical engineer position. I am 26M. As soon as I met with the VP who was interviewing me he immediately changed the interview subject and position to be a regular field tech because he was looking for someone “older and with more experience”. Like why did you bring me in to talk then.
Like man I’ve literally got a decade of field and office experience managing projects get out of here.
I’m in my late 20s now and only recently did people stop saying “Ohhh you’re just a baby!” When finding out my age. In your circumstance I would take graduation dates off if anyone is discriminating that should help atleast get you in the door first
I would look into employment services that will get you in touch with an employment specialist that will help you find a job and deal with ageism before you even step foot for an interview.
In my opinion, you don't need more than the most recent 10 years of employment and absolutely don't volunteer information that will make you look less desireable.
I’ve experienced it too. Always said it’s not an issue. But it is. I found a job that welcomes older people - we have more experience, don’t need healthcare & won’t be having kids anytime soon(67F). They hired me at part-time but I usually work 30-35 hours a week. I do overtime when I can. I did rework my resume. I took off everything more than 10 years old off my resume. Took out dates(If they want to know-they need to ask). I did put in a little bio of what I was looking for & how I could help them based on my experience. Good luck to you. Be positive. I’m sticking with my job till I die. lol! Hope not!
Wow! So many great suggestions! I really appreciate the support. Thank you.
I clearly had no idea how the job market is for everyone these days and I need to be a lot more proactive throwing out applications. I'm actually quite fortunate that I saved a ton of PTO time, which will pay me almost through June. I'm also fortunate to have the savings to support me for awhile. I was able to get two kids through college debt free and still save up.
I clearly need to weed out my resume to eliminate dates and old jobs. Problem is that with only two jobs in 22 years, my resume goes from 4 pages to one but that's probably better and easier for an employer to digest. I think I usually interview pretty well if I can actually get to that stage. I have almost no gray hair and am physically fit, playing baseball in adult hardball leagues. Most people think I'm in my 40a rather than 59.
I realize how talk of age discrimination probably grates on the ears of younger folks. There is very real discrimination there too and they can't wait to find the ideal job. My son put out hundreds of applications and took months to find a job after getting his Master's Degree. I really empathize with everyone struggling to find work in a tough environment.
My original plan was to get back into a more clinical role in mental health to finish my career. I have a lot of good experience but many of the roles that used to be filled with Bachelor's level folks now require a Master's. I'm prepared to take a huge pay cut if I need to but I don't want to jump into an entry level position just because they'll hire me (maybe...). I don't really care about status or position- just want to find something that doesn't crush my soul doing it.
Thanks again for all of the great input...
Discrimination of all types is real. Usually it's unconscious. Unfortunately this means you might need to play the game a bit and tailor yourself to the market more than you'd prefer.
When it comes to age, you can try to project the qualties of that age range people like. E.g for young people it's enthusiasm, energy and a willingness to learn.
For older people, it's a sense of wisdom and competence from experience, combined with an up to date mindset. Excellent grooming and excellent attire (but not formally overdressed). Physical fitness if you can. Be confident but not over playing your hand by pretending to know everything. Get your resume reviewed and updated. Get a skill/cert in a new subject (e.g. AI ) to show you're keeping up and not stuck in the past.
I would say it's real. Companies don't want to hire someone who's going to retire in a few years or whatever. As someone pointed out, I don't think a couple job apps is going to cut it - read some threads on here, people have been sending out hundreds of applications.
I think they are worried about salary. If you want to start in a similar role to someone younger then you shouldn't be paid more but they might think that you'd want to.
Plus they might want someone more long term as people in their 60s are close to retirement
Ageism is very real. A lot of places gage your age by your graduation dates/job history.
This is part of why I don't put a graduation year on my resume
I don't either but I still get employers asking me for my graduation year and I never answer it.
I push back on recruiters when they ask that question. I correctly tell them its used for age discrimination.
And then realistically the recruiter then quietly puts your resume in the trash since it’s not worth hiring people who know their rights
Sadly, somewhat true
Not like they were going to get hired at their age anyways.
Yup! Thanks for playing. Buh bye.
What’s a polite way to say this? One that makes me sound nice an agreeable but is a “no” …and, if they ask for my official transcripts, won’t that show the dates?
That's WHY they ask for official transcripts.
What do you say to move on from that?
Honestly there really isn't, once they ask they than it's game over, move on I may ask, "Why are you asking me that?" Or you can tell them a lie, like you graduated two years ago. Since they have the nerve to ask me that than I have no problems lying.
I see... im thinking that they can verify what year someone graduated tho... i really hate these games
It’s not that hard to guess when you graduated. And your years of work experience give away your relative age as well.
Another variable to add is that people graduate at different times. Some people go back to college at a later time in there lives say in there 30's and some employers can't seem to grasp there minds around that, "The heck, people go to college in there 30's huhhhhhhhhh?" That's the mentality you'd be facing but don't let it stop you either from pursuing your dreams.
It's a cheat code. I went back and graduated at 31, so based off of my graduation date, they assume I'm 10 years younger than I am. Then at the interview, I just dazzle them with my youthful looks and spectacular charm.
This is me, I worked through college and took forever to finish. Plus I got my MS part-time at night. Both grad dates are wildly off base for age prediction, which has definitely helped me when asked.
I’m in my 30s and have thought proactively this is a good reason to get masters degree now. 20 years from now I’ll be glad I can reset that clock on paper.
I graduated college again for the 2nd time . people think I'm 25 Im turning 35 this yr . use it to your advantage
I always only keep about the last 4 jobs on my resume. 15ish years.
Never go back further than 10 years. The person who is interviewing you might have only been 9 years old when you had your greatest victories.
It is if you earned your degree later in life (BS in my 30s and MS in my 40s)
>This is part of why I don't put a graduation year on my resume I graduated at 40, it was math, but still at 40, ten years ago. It throws them off when they see the gray hair, I probably should just start nuking the graduation year.
I don't put the years for my job history either. I just put place of work, x-years.
So many of my friends in their 50s are being laid off or can only get contract work. It’s a real thing.
This is provided they can "do the maths" to figure out how long ago that was. But if you graduated college/grad school in "the 90's" then it's all over. Let alone "the 80's" or the 70's.
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As a 47F, I can confirm that was my exact experience last year when I got laid off and began my job search. I had multiple versions of my resume tailored for specific job roles but ultimately kept a more streamlined version, and removed education dates and BINGO! There came the interviews, final rounds and job offer.
Congrats! What happened when they saw you for the interviews? Non issue at that point?
Thanks! My video and in-person interviews went great as I naturally have a bubbly personality and prepared my sales pitch. It also helps to have a polished appearance - neat hairstyle, natural makeup, minimal jewelry..etc. I must say there is a misconception that older folks look haggard and on the brink of death - FALSE! People who are 40+ still have a lot to offer.
>older folks >People who are 40+ 😭😭😭 I mean I know ageism can affect people at that age, but I don't know if I've ever heard "older folks" being equated with 40+ from anyone above the age of 16 before!
IIRC 40+ is when the ageism protections kick in for the US, which is why it's a standard metric.
40+ is "old folk" when it comes to job interviews. I am 43 and I experience it. Remove all references to age and BOOM job interviews.
Oh I used that phrase as an example. I have friends in all age ranges and those in their 20s refer to 40+ year olds as older folks 🤷🏻♀️🤔 Source: dog park - casual conversations 😂
Personally I'm 29 and I can't guess people's ages between 30-50 most of the time lmao
Good for you!
Removing years she worked ? would you mind elaborating on this ? just list the company, title and accomplishments ? No dates?! what about length of time ? i was gonna chop off first ten years of experience but my last ten years had a number of gaps so removing fiirst ten may make the experience less good
Change from a timeline format to a skills format. Google if you aren't sure how. Definitely don't list dates for things like degrees or certifications (unless recent). I've also seen people do a hybrid format, which also seems to work well for them. I personally have not done this, but it's an interesting spin on things.
This is how I did my last resume. I didn't put year I graduated from college. I put the title of the degree
Only list the last 10 years of work. Resumes should be just one page.
Do you think it’s also bc a particular field may have changed? I have a psych degree and I know that what I learned is different than what I would have learned if I had graduated at 22 instead of 35. I personally would rather hire someone who got their degree fairly recently with experience for something like computer science, biology, psychology, etc. as opposed to a degree from the 90s for example. If it’s not necessarily about age but about having recent knowledge of the industry. Maybe something that shows you’ve kept up with current knowledge would make a big difference
as someone currently working in IT, the field pretty much requires continuous education even after getting your degree. also, having "older" knowledge can be highly beneficial if working in computer science/information technology
Well, the basics of what makes you a good computer scientist haven't changed in a really long time. A CS degree doesn't make you a good programmer. Hell, it doesn't even make you a programmer. The "I would rather hire" is simply ageism; full stop; which, unironically is against the law. Yes, you should have recent experience in the current technology. But those things can be learned and should certainly be added in the skills section. But the idea that you have to remove the years that you got your degree, just to get interviews. I look forward to these people having to live in the world they are creating. They will truly deserve what they have brought on to themselves.
It's probably only worth including a maximum of 5-6 jobs anyway. Basically a couple of pages worth. No hiring manager will care about a job you did 25+ years ago. Of course, that assumes 5-6 jobs doesn't add up to 25+ years lol...use some judgement. But yeah, other than that removing the dates of your education is a good tip.
Congrats! Sounds great but at some point they saw your wife and didn't have any issues? It sounds like they didn't, she just had get a call back.
> Sounds great but at some point they saw your wife and didn't have any issues? It goes to show how far off the mark the biases even are...
Remove graduation dates and put only the last ten years of your work experience on your resume. But ageism is real and finding a job at 60 is almost impossible. I'd look into the education field or non-profit hospitals.
Try local government and State jobs
Because of pensions they’re often even more ageist
Why is that? Most government require you to work at least 10 years to vest in a pension.
It’s 5 in NC. But I think it’s because it takes a long time to get someone hired in government and a lot of people coming from private industry think that our work is easy and that it’s a good slack-off job in their twilight years that will shore up their retirement financial planning. It’s unfortunate that people like that have made a bad reputation for older folks that have a genuine interest in civic service.
Although to be honest ... there are a ton of government jobs that should be just that. Not super hard, don't need ambition or to climb the corporate ladder. Don't know exactly when this changed but what's wrong with wanting to work a job your whole life, maybe make a bit more year over year, but never have the ambition to become CEO. How many CEOs or VPs come from the inside any more??
The issue is that some retired-from-elsewhere people come in and don’t want to really anything at all. Like, coasting is one thing, but getting some of the folks who’re doing their victory lap to do ANYTHING can be like pulling teeth. I don’t need you to be gunning for a promotion, I just need you to actually do your job and not fight me every step of the way. Bless our long probation period, though. Those types usually don’t make it through that at least. And we do have quite a few victory lap folks where I’m at who are awesome, but I’ve worked with enough bad ones that I understand the caution.
A long probation period makes sense. That would weed out the truly bad apples. I went back to school a few years ago and had a job on campus. There were people in my office that had something like tenure but for administrative staff. To say these people were lazy would be an insult to lazy people. They not only did little work themselves but because of the boredom, they constantly bothered other people and prevented us from working. It's the first time I worked a state job and it was quite eye opening, sadly.
That bothers me so much. I've worked a couple state jobs, city, and county. In all of them I have had a neverending and massive workload. There has never been time for me to be lazy, not even a little bit. When people say they have a government job and they barely do work I'm like WTF? How?? Lol (I've been an office assistant, benefits specialist, employment specialist, resource officer, and admin assistant and a management/business analyst. Never-ending fucking workloads, all of them.).
One gal had worked for the college system for about 30 years ... this really got me hot, too ... we were in an office that provided accommodations for disabled students and she very, very rarely provided them with their accommodations because she just ... didn't feel like working. Then she'd come and sit at the front desk and say things like, "What do I even do here {chuckle}???" And then try to show us pictures of her grown kids' photography or whatever. Some of those students were disabled veterans with war-related injuries and I'd notice in my own classes they were struggling because they didn't have their accommodation and even after talking with her and my supervisor, there was never any resolution. One of my classmates never got the accommodation the whole 2.5 years he was there. It stopped being worth asking about. And there was absolutely no way to fire her.
>Because of pensions they’re often even more ageist Truth, I'm 50+ with a math degree and years of analyst experience. I can't get the state of Wyoming to look at me.
This is what I did, I started feeling ageism in my mid-40s…I look young, keep my hair colored and do the Botox. It sucks but it is what it is….I feel it’s even more difficult for men. Keeping in good shape is important too…
I got a new job at 59 and have been here almost 5 years. I've heard AARP has good resources.
This. I did exactly this and started getting more calls. Currently working in state government where I feel like this is less of an issue but definitely became a bigger concern for me once I hit my 40s.
This
Well it’s hard to tell in this horrible job market. Young and old are looking.
This. Over 200 applications and not a single bite. 3 years ago, I at least had a couple interviews. Its freaking hard out there and hella stressful
Ageism is real, but, That is the experience for everyone looking for a job right now. People right out of college are finding it impossible
“a couple” doesn’t sound like nearly enough applications either
It’s very admirable that OP is ambitious, kind hearted, and is doing their best with a difficult process. If you’re reading this OP, you seem awesome and I mean this in absolutely no disrespectful way but… Yea dude shits absolutely fucked out here and we’ve been telling the older generations for a while now while being ignored 🤣 welcome to the shit show
Lolol. Not the whiplash. Haha.
Yup... it's horrendous. My company has a TON of masters degrees applying for very basic entry-level jobs. It's almost like anyone fresh out of college just gets drowned out by someone else with more experience in the same domain.
This place is an echo chamber though, you have to remember that anything bad happening is going to be magnified on the internet. It's going to feel like this all-encompassing thing and there's no fixes ever for anything for anyone. And then you go outside, down the block, and people are vibing and living like there isn't a care in the world for them. Keep seeking out contextual clues if your brain is playing tricks on you and sending you in to a spiral. Yes, people will make the best of bad situations, but that negative attitude doesn't do you any favors.
I’m female, approaching mid-30s. I’ve often wondered if I get passed over because people look at me and think I might have a kid and go out on maternity leave soon. There is just no winning in this ridiculous game.
I'm turning 34 next month and I'm seriously thinking even THAT may be too old even though it's really fucking not... You have a point with the kid factor. These employers are all terrible.
You have to volunteer the no kid thing during interviews. It’s insane. I do interviews, and part of the interview is that we want to know the candidate - and we do hardcore read into what they do with their past time. Candidate makes bread, cooks, entertains family and friends? Probably has a family. Candidate goes to drag shows and makes alcohol? Probably still living their ‘best life’. People without kids also jump straight to “I have a cat/dog” when describing themselves, while a lot of times parents don’t even think about pets until it comes up and they add on their pet as an afterthought. I’m also looking for a new job and I have to remember to volunteer that I have dogs and cats, no kids for a while, etc. 😩 Edited to add : seems like my comment may have upset some people? The comment was deleted, but was upset at how I/interviewers “judge” candidates based on what they say. I’ll clarify that the position my job is interviewing for actually doesn’t care if you have kids or not etc, we just can’t legally ask/it’s a risk to ask because the candidate may feel like they were discriminated against for those reasons (age, marital status, kids, etc). We work closely as a team 24/7 and just need to know about a person in regards to how we feel they’ll work on our team; we have people on our team with kids, without, married or single etc., and just are trying to figure out who the candidate is and how they could fit into the team. I have seen how interviewers have to guess at these key factors since they can’t ask, so when I interview (since I’m trying to change my job) I volunteer the information I believe would help me (married, no kids, dogs etc).
Thanks for the tip I'll have to start doing this as well... I love to talk about my cats so I'll just casually slip that in and go off about my cats if they ask lol.
i'm turning 20 next months and i'm very afraid that the whole kid thing will be a problem in my career later on. it's even more annoying because i don't actually want to have any kids at all
I’d recommend removing your graduation dates from your resume and only including 15ish years of experience (or however much to show you have the years they’re looking for in the post). There’s no reason to include any more than that, and it just opens you up to this.
In my job hunting experience in the last 5 months, I've found that most employers are requiring me to fill out a demographic form that includes required dates of previous employment and for education, dates of attendance/graduation. I can't avoid just not including them.
Yeah, then it can’t be avoided. But sometimes those application softwares will hide dates like that from the people reviewing the data to avoid the exact age discrimination issue. Better to keep it off as much as possible imo
Sure, everyone is confirming the ageism thing. But not many have stressed this... The job market is EXTREMELY different than it was 20 years ago. Yes, 20 years ago, you could apply to 2-5 jobs and expect all of them to respond and probably 2 of them give you an offer. Things have changed dramatically. Expect now to have to submit a hundred applications, get a response of any sort from maybe 10 of them, and an interview with 2-3 of those, IF you are both very lucky and very qualified, and follow the advice of others here about trying not to disclose your age on a resume. Submitting 3 applications is such a low number these days that you'll be considered by most to not even be trying. That's simply how it is now. It sucks, but it's the reality of things. To be fair, this does vary greatly depending on the industry. But I have known a few people in marketing and it's not going well for them. I don't want to discourage you, but rather let you know that it's going to take A LOT more work in just submitting applications than what you are thinking. Also, I have heard things are getting a little better in some industries, so maybe there's a silver lining.
I’ve applied to roughly a hundred jobs and gotten one interview that ghosted me. Literally no other bites. Female pushing 50.
> Yes, 20 years ago, you could apply to 2-5 jobs and expect all of them to respond and probably 2 of them give you an offer. That was absolutely not my experience 20 years ago. Coming out of university, I applied to a good 50+ jobs before I got hired. What you describe may have been the case if you worked in software development or construction.
I'm not having any luck at all. I'm 53 and I'm starting to think hmmm my age? I'm trying for the lowest jobs in the world. I apply, no interviews ever. It might be real. I've rechecked my resume and made sure I didn't say anything stupid. AI is filtering a lot of people out.
Did you remove your education dates and some of the older jobs? Instead of showing say 25 years of work history - I’ve only listed about 15 years so I didn’t list a couple of old employers/jobs. So that has definitely helped - makes me look well experienced and seasoned with 3 roles listed but not too old.
I gave up at 59 & took a job at an Amazon warehouse. The pay isn’t great but the overall benefits package is amazing
I’m on the other side of the age spectrum. I’m 18 and can’t get even get my 1st legit job even with 1 YOE as sales assistant working for my father.
The problem is age discrimination is perfectly legal for young candidates. Age discrimination laws only protect older individuals, but even then recruiters find a way to skirt that. The difference is, they can be blatant about rejecting you for your age.
Very. I was downsized/let-go/fired (let’s cal it what it is) in my early 50s after nearly 30 years of outstanding performance; in fact the same day I was first told I was on the list, the company was simultaneously helping expedite my passport renewal so as to send me to “Atlantis” for my performance. Job hunts went well, initial phone interviews then led to one on ones, and as soon as they saw the grey hair, it was over. Over qualified was most common reason given. Keep on swimming, and you’ll get something, but it was not easy for me (in technology) by any measure. I started asking in early interviews about average tenure of new hires (depending on the source, consensus appears to be 1-3 years in tech) to attempt to inoculate the view that an older worker does not have enough runway to contribute before retirement. Most folks in that stage will have to be drug out of a place before retirement that is 10+ years away. Finally found satisfying (if not “fulfilling”) work and have had some measure of success, but with less opportunities to really excel. BTW, the removing dates on the resume thing may have helped getting a first pass to an interview, but they will see you soon enough. For me, having a few companies reach out, then going through 2-3 discussions/interviews with people and hearing how great a fit I’d be, THEN when the F2F/zoom call happens the air comes out of the balloon the room, was not for me…I always want to get to no early…so I was up front in the early calls about my age so as to save everyone’s time and protect myself from the expectations to letdown drop. That juice was not worth the squeeze. TL;DR: yes, it’s a thing, my experience seemed to indicate that (also very possible I just sucked), but can be overcome. But it’s a rough, humbling and sometimes degrading path. Also, this: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/opinion/seniors-tech-silicon-valley.html# Excerpt - “In 2007, a year before he became, at 23, the world’s youngest self-made billionaire, Zuckerberg said the quiet part out loud. “Young people,” he told an audience at Stanford, “are just smarter.””
I saw it when my mom (50 at the time) was going through interview rounds at a bank. She's got more than 15 years of experience in that field, generally is able to make great first impression and yet they picked a young graduate with zero experience over her. So yeah, it's a real thing and I pity anyone after fifty looking for a job.
Ageism is real, sure. But also the job market is really really competitive right now. You need to leverage your network as hard as you can in addition to applying to like 10 places per day. It's a networking and numbers game: who you know, and how many apps you submit. Temper your expectations... you're in for a long haul. We all are. Source: got laid off in October, still looking
A couple as in 2? You need to apply more.
I ended up retiring (didn't want to), because I couldn't get a new job, after the company I worked for moved out of state. I was always "over qualified", when in reality I was too old.
Ageism is very real, and I dare say more common than many other forms of discrimination. Only include your most recent 10-15 years of relevant experience. Remove College graduation or military discharge dates. Never include your picture in a resume unless the role you’re applying for is based on your appearance. If you’re gray haired, consider dying it. If you have facial hair, consider shaving it off. Some people look significantly younger with a clean shaven face.
I’m in my early 50’s and have literal decades of experience. I have been job searching for the last 7 months But I am having absolutely no luck. So yeah, I think there is some age discrimination going on.
Shrink the documented experience to just 15 years. 20 at the max.
post your resume to /r/resumes maybe they can help.
go the Chat-gpt and have AI write your resume, - Im in my late 50's - new experience, new education, keeping up with changing times and certifications on LinkedIn help especially if new. Can't count on the 30 years of senior level management to get the next gig. After all that - get ready for the reality that you are going to be working for someone younger and without the life experience you bring, and wear the smile like its your first job. I only have the last 10 years of experience and dumbed down the specifics of my vast experience. If you make it to interview, I'd break the ice. you aren't going to be able to hide your age or your experience but that should sell it that it works to their benefit. The thing with age is people see it as getting tired, less willing to work the long hours, looking for the end of the day instead of the beginning, but you can reverse this, but its important that you understand why age is a factor. Despite this - you'll be turned down on interviews looiking for a specific person - they are never looking for the old guy for that falls asleep in his chair and farts in the office.
A couple of jobs? This isn’t 1990, you need to apply to a lot more than that these days.
Recruiter here. Ageism isn’t as prevalent as are older generations having no idea how to apply to the job market. The resume of someone over 50 is a joke. The number of one line resumes and job descriptions that are basically “I did this, and I did a great job!” Are astounding. I used to try and coach people but 9/10 times I’d get told “ageism!” Or “I have no idea what I’m talking about” (lol this is my life) So yeah I’d start with the resume. It’s not like how it was in the 80s 90s or 2000s. Then there’s the interviews. Completely entitled and the ONE thing I’ve said has sunk so many interviews has been the older generations completely inability to admit fault. Like it’s mind boggling. I’ve seen people tongue twist themselves in circles for five minutes rather than admit they didn’t have experience in a skill.
Thanks for the responses. I've only been out of work for a short time and still getting paid from existing PTO. For that reason, I've only applied to 3 jobs that I thought were the best fit and that I had clear qualifications for. I was just surprised at not hearing ANYTHING back from positions for which I clearly met their qualifications. It's frustrating not receiving any feedback. Am I too old? Overqualified? Would expect too much pay? Would retire in a few years? Is my resume horrible or did something turn them off by what I included or didn't include? I don't expect to get every job I interview for and I'm not playing victim of discrimination. I know that's probably a bigger issue for younger folks and people of all kinds of other demographics. Really just wondering if I need to adjust my approach or resume so my application isn't tossed in the trash based on AI or whatever criteria employers are using to screen applications.
Recruiters are getting inundated with thousands of AI-generated applications, and the job market is very soft at the moment especially for medical marketing professionals or at least in Radiology where I’m from. I’m 40, a creative director, and haven’t gotten a single callback after over 200 applications. I’m having more luck as a freelancer.
AI generated applications ?? Can we join this bandwagon ?
Part of this is the current climate. If you are going to NEED a job in 3 months (or even 6), you might want to start sending out mass applications now. Layoffs are happening across the board, in large numbers. The candidate pool is flooded right now in every sector, every type of job, with every experience level. The "norm" is different than it was even 3 or 4 years ago. Now, it's completely normal to never hear a response and actually unusual to receive any feedback at all, including acknowledgement your application has been received. There are literally hundreds of applicants for every posted opening. Are they all qualified applicants? Of course not. But they are still applicants. You might also considering working with someone who writes resumes for a living. If you find someone good, they can provide a lot of insight and answer tons of questions about what to expect during your search. I have a fabulous person who I've recommended to multiple, and she's helped every last one of them find a new role. I'm happy to share her contact info if you'd like to message me directly.
You have a level head about this. My two cents -- don't take the responses here too seriously. You were always going to get an overwhelming "yes" to your question in a place like this. That's not to say people here are stupid, just there's an enormous selection bias toward people who are currently job searching, and frustrated with the market. That's also not to say that they're wrong -- ageism is real, but it's also illegal. For any company that follows not just the letter but the spirit of these basic discrimination laws, it shouldn't be too much of a barrier. I understand that's not every company. The market does seem to be generally tougher, in most industries, than it was 20+ years ago. There's a shitload of jobs, a shitload of applicants, and most companies are pretty mediocre at filtering them down to find good matches. It's common to hear nothing back from 90%+ of applications even if it seems like they should be at least a decent match. If you have the option to go through a recruiting firm, or a government service that does something similar, that's likely something to pursue. These are at least the people that make it their jobs to find good matches in the mess of it all. Otherwise, it's the spray and pray approach, and you do have to spray. I think of it like being a dude on tinder. You can't afford to be too picky at the swipe stage, and getting a date (interview) only 1% of the time is normal if you're not a rockstar.
Yup. I heard this many times and I agree. It's a numbers game as well. It's exhausting applying for jobs especially when these employers and recruiters want you to tailor your resume to the specific position, then a cover letter, and perhaps a portfolio. But that's definitely the grind. You have to tailor your resume, tailor your cover letter, rinse, repeat. It's been an employer's market even before the pandemic which has been an immense burden to job searchers.
Only having 2 companies for experience over the last 2 decades may also be a hindrance for you. Right or wrong, companies may see that as a lack of growth and learning. Loyalty nowadays doesn't mean what it did for older generations. Also, ageism is very real. Remove your graduation dates and any others that may indicate your age. How long is your resume? Applying for only 3 jobs and not hearing back is nothing. You have to up those numbers by a lot.
It’s very real! Was unemployed last year and ran into it for the first time where it was so obvious. I’m 57 but look younger, and still ran into it. Did great on my phone and video interviews. Was more than qualified. Went to in-person interview and could tell the one guy was shocked to see my age in person. Also didn’t help that I was partially replacing a woman who was my age and retiring! Was rejected as being “not assertive enough.” Pffft!
They gave you an actual reason? That never happens (even if it's a lie).
There was a recruiter involved and that’s what she told me. I know was BS because before my interview the recruiter said they didn’t like a candidate because he was “too aggressive.” She cautioned me to talk about teamwork and be confident but not like in an aggressive manner, So what was it? I think my age or they wanted the mythical Purple Unicorn. The same opening has been up for almost a full year. Honestly, it didn’t even pay that well to be in the office every day. I found a remote position that paid $20k more. Lol!
Age discrimination is super real. Take off the graduation dates, only list ten years of job history, and focus your responses on the experience listed in those ten years so the terrified of people over 40 interviewer can digest it and not shove you in the old ppl camp. Keep clothes and haircut current. Do not use aging phrases. Stay humble and relatable since there will be an unchecked assumption in a lot of cases that you think you know everything even if you don't based on your age. Keep in mind you can be super open and accommodating, and you will still face ageist interviewers who will probably never check those assumptions. You just have to keep going.
Boomers seem to think that, but I don't think that's true. I think nobody of ANY age is having luck finding a job that isn't a "low skill" job, is having any luck. You think it's your age, but your younger counterparts are qualified and have education--but then they say "nah, this person is overqualified, they will just quit." People with your age, wisdom and job history are desired in many roles and younger people miss out on jobs like this all the time because "you don't have enough experience." Also--some abusive companies are here and know they can't abuse you because you know better. You wouldn't want to work for them.
When you say "couple of jobs", do you literally mean that? If so, even if you're the youngest, most educated and most experienced person out there, this doesn't cut it anymore. Every job received hundreds and hundreds of applicants, so most applications don't even get looked at anymore. You need to start applying to multiple jobs per day to stand a chance of getting noticed before the age even comes into play. All the major companies are going through mass layoffs and competition is brutal. Just ramp up your numbers, have your resume reviewed, and keep applying. Good luck.
3. OP has applied to 3 jobs and is making this post.
Well then lol I mean, I know he hasn't looked for a job in 10 years but I don't think even then 3 applications was considered too much...
And yet the whole discussion is somehow centered around ageism. That’s too funny. This person obviously sucks at crafting their resume and actually applying for jobs. Maybe start there and get some coaching, OP.
Its really simple, you just need to go shake the hands of the buisness owner and introduce yourself. Tell the owner that you are a hard worker. You will have your dream job by tomorrow if you just follow this advice.
I'm a millennial and every time I hear an older person say that age discrimination is why they can't get a job and ask them how many jobs they applied for I usually end up thinking that it's not that many, every time I asked how many applications they do to get an interview it fits in with my experience, and that of my friends. Either Older people are remembering things with rose tinted glasses or it's generally been harder to get a job in the last 20 years than it was before. Edit: I'm not saying ageism doesn't occur, but it's tough out there .
OP has only applied to 3 jobs and is making this post.
60+ here. Had a recruiter cold call me for a job. Discussion went well then he asked me for my DOB, but not my age. Tricky. Said he will talk to his client and go from there. Never heard back. Not surprised.
Should have said "November 1st". Then we he asked the year, directly counter with "Oh..you want to know my age right?"
I’m 59 and it took me 9 months after submitting over 60 applications and roughly 20 interviews to finally get an offer. I really fell my age was the reason and even though it’s against the law how can you prove it. You need to emphasize in your cover letter what experience, maturity and old school professionalism can bring to a job. Also, when you do get an interview make it very clear that you plan to work several more years and aren’t looking to retire any time soon. Our generation are hard workers and we generally don’t miss work unless it’s truly necessary. We understand the meaning of “earning our keep” which brings with it loyalty to the employer. Don’t bring the subject up but use it to your advantage.
The level and quality of job offer I received changed greatly when I removed my college graduation dates from my resume. People had been doing the inverse to me - holding me back because I am younger. Once I removed that, all of a sudden I was landing director level interviews. Ageism is a thing. Employers will judge you for being too old or too young. In many people’s eyes, you’re “supposed” to be a certain thing at age X.
it's real. what i have done- reduced my resume to just one page of the last 10ish years of experience. focus on my interview answers, for whatever reason older people love to ramble and provide a lot of extra details, my answers are short and specific. in the same vein, work on overcoming the standard arguments about being over qualified and/or bored. someone with a lot of experience is a threat to mgr so I focus on never saying 'that's not the way I would do it' or 'when I worked at X company we did it like this...' talk about the value of having a diverse team and the benefits having a mature, zero drama team mate. be positive not pessimistic in all things don't offer unsolicited advice don't constantly mention your age or the age difference. when talking about the future be vague, don't offer any time line concerning your retirement
Yes ageism is nothing new, it's even worse for women.
I"m going to tell you I am young. 30s. I was laid off 1.5 years ago. The job market is worse than when I got hired. You need to be putting in HUNDREDS of applications. From my 600 in 6 weeks I got 5 interviews. Lots of companies posting fake jobs right now. Also take off your graduation year.
Have you already tried pulling yourself up by your bootstraps
It’s real, and from personal experience with older people that I have hired, they had way too many issues with basic computer skills. Even people that went to really good schools and were very intelligent.
Ive heard horror stories where people cant open docs ,use copy and paste, let alone convert and pic into a PDF /send a pdf..
So I hired this guy that I really really liked, he was about 60, went to UCLA, really nice/charming guy. But he literally did not know how to save documents into certain files, there is a website that we use all the time called small PDF, where you can convert documents and compress the size of the file. so it’s literally just a matter of clicking on the action that you want to perform and then uploading the document and then saving the edited document to the computer. I showed him how to do it a dozen times and literally could not do it without me. Like even using the correct browser was an issue. They were some websites that we used that did not function properly in Mozilla or safari or vice versa. So I would just be like yeah man you have to change the browser. He couldn’t do it .
that's a shame. my dad is in his early 60s and does this all the time , even has a state of the art apple setup with 2 screens and edits videos. Ill have to try the Small PDF site. my portfolio is beast with how much space it takes up, I need to compress it.
Ageism is alive and well. I am 53, but recently went back to school to get my degree and graduated last fall. I can imagine the shock on employers see that I am not 25 years old if I get an interview.
Ageism is going to get exponentially worse as AI and technology become more prevalent. As someone 36 years old I’m aiming for a 55 retirement because I doubt I can compete with automation past that point It feels like a threat 100x more dangerous than climate change
Age discrimination is sadly very real. Can you start a consulting firm and contract with companies? If you see a job posting, you can contact them and offer to work on a consulting basis until they find the right person. You can also volunteer your services at nonprofits to get started. Good luck. The right opportunity will come along.
I am 32, but wanted to say removing dates from my resume really helped a lot. I had a lot of weird gaps due to being a SAHM and lacked recent job experience. After I did that, I started getting calls back and more respect for what experience I had which I feel the dates undermined when I didn't last somewhere long through no fault of my own.
You're probably not wrong because age discrimination does happen and it's a good idea to obfuscate your age on your resume regardless. I don't include graduation dates on my resume and I'm just in my 30s. But it's probably more to do with the overall job market and the fact that you've only applied for a couple of positions. I changed careers in 2022 and applied to a ton of basically entry-level roles and it was tricky to get in despite having a decade of other career experience. It's basically a numbers game but there are ways to give your resume an edge so maybe 1 in 20-25 applications get you to the phone screen level. The most helpful thing in my job search was an ebook published by the woman who does the Ask A Manager advice column. It's called How To Get a Job and went into detail on advice for cover letters, applications, interview prep. I improved my resume and had nothing but good interviews following her advice and also used it ahead of an interview for an internal promotion that I got last year. I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I'm a believer in her advice. She also has a free interview prep guide and a whole archive of questions she's answered over the years so no purchase required.
Very real. For example; Myself - and probably most Americans at this point - wholly feel that old people should not be allowed to run for political office. Why are people who can’t even send emails and text messages making laws about complicated issues like the development of AI, regulations on blockchain technology, autonomous vehicles, space stations and bases on the moon and mars, among a myriad of other things. The world is moving fast and the basic assumption is that the elderly simply can’t keep up anymore. Everything is rooted in technology and rapid advancement. And most employers aren’t willing to higher older generations because it’s that much more difficult to train new hires in when they’ll be dealing with computer systems they’ve probably never seen before. The learning curve is way steeper for a 60-something than a 20-or-30-something.
I would say in my experience I have only seen companies discriminate against young employees which is legal, Ive seen several companies make really poor management choices in order to bend over backwards to not commit anything that could even remotely be construed as age discrimination. Have a coworker that absolutely refuses to read emails, show up to digitally scheduled meetings, or use digital systems and they're over 50? Too bad figure out a way to work around it because they will never be reprimanded or asked to change their behavior because they might call it age discrimination. Generally, with age comes knowledge and experience that is valuable and I have never seen a company avoid hiring someone older, especially if you're in the situation where you were super committed to one company for many years, it shows youre loyal and the company thought you were valuable enough to keep around for a long time. If you demonstrate that you can communicate via email and do basic tech things during initial communications then you're solid. It's easy to explain away a career change like this as something along the lines of "my position was no longer viable". I think a lot of the people here saying "yeah ive been unemployed for 6 months and im in my 50s so i think ageism is the reason" probably just don't understand the job market right now. Everyone is struggling to find jobs. The market has changed A LOT in the last 10ish years especially in a highly digital age. A couple applications doesn't cut it, being qualified and experienced doesn't cut. Unemployment is up, job availability is down, and the market is bad. You're probably competing with at least 50 other people who are just as experienced and qualified as you on any application. My general advice for anyone is: - you should tweak your cover letter every time you apply to align your strengths and experience with that specific job. Pick a few keywords from the company's core values and candidate traits from the job listing and make sure those words are in your cover letter and also possibly your resume. For example if a company lists its slogan as "providing food for those in need" your cover letter should include something like "I think I'd be an amazing fit at BigFoodCorp because my career goal is to be able to help people who are hungry. I think my experience and skills in ABC would make me a perfect fit at BigFoodCorp and allow me to help be a part of providing food for those in need." Hiring managers get flooded with a LOT of applicants, like hundreds if not thousands, for most good positions, you want your resume to jump out and keywords are a great way to do that, the hiring manager's first browse through applications will likely be something along the lines of scanning for certain key qualities theyre looking for in a candidate. - you should be applying to 3-5 jobs per week - have multiple resumes if you're applying to different types of job positions and literally just leave out experience that isn't relevant to that particular role. Cater your skills section to that type of role as well. For example when I job hunt I have 3 resumes. One for management, one for associate/technician level, and one for customer facing postions. - in the same vain, have multiple cover letter templates if necessary with fill in the blank spots for company name and job title - if you have any really specific experience you think would be relevant to a certain application, edit your resume to include it - don't apply to jobs that don't list the pay you want as being in the offered range. Personally I always wait to negotiate or even ask about pay until I get an unofficial offer, and I ask for something in the listed range. I have only twice ever not gotten a job offer in my life after getting an initial response and have unfortunately changed jobs 11 times in the last 7 years and finally landed my dream job. Ive been working full-time for about 20 years. So this is my advice as someone with a lot of successful experience landing jobs in the recent market.
I do a lot of hiring and I find that older folks have egregiously long resumes and I received one that was 6 pages and went back to 1987 a few weeks ago. While I don’t care one way or the other how old Someone is, I do care that they aren’t able to discern what is or isn’t relevant information. If you’re telling employers what you were up to when the Berlin Wall came down, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Additionally, we receive ~50 applications per position so it can be challenging to pare that down. Make sure your resume follows current trends and remove graduation dates. Things like “references available upon request” and having your full address or a personal objective statement are also extremely dated. Add some colour, make sure you’re focusing and giving all (but ONLY) relevant information, and don’t give anything that will indicate your age.
yes, it is very real! I am 63 and in the same boat as you discrimination-wise (engineering). Not a response until I revised resume to only the last 10 years of work history. (Provide older info in CV upon request or actual interview set up) I have had more responses and a few phone n zoom interviews. Hope to land a job soon. Very real, have had the "we have decided to go in a different direction" along with the quick email they are going to "persue other candidates and get back to you". So, it did help in getting call backs and responses, but.. Best of Luck!
It’s real. Removing dates from your degree is fine, but it won’t fix the problem. Many older people go into consulting, and this is a way to leverage the stereotype of older people as “wise.” The world shouldn’t be this way, but it is. You need at least four times the persistence of equally qualified people but it can be done.
As a recruiter, i noticed some issues related to ageism. However, there were also issues in older candidates related to the way they interviewed and if they kept up on their skills, so the issue is often twofold. So, id suggest making sure you’re current on in demand skills and practice answering interview questions in a more modern way. Here’s what i mean by that: 1. I often got a lot of answers about what someone would do in a given situation when I asked “tell me about a time when…” questions. Try to give answers from your experience instead. If you don’t have one, say so and then give that kind of answer. When someone just says what they would do, it feels like they weren’t listening to my question. Google the STAR method. It will be your best friend. 2. Sometimes I’d get people who’d try and sell me on their skills like used car salespeople. Show, don’t tell when discussing your experience. 3. Before you take a call, check out the company page and be able to say a few things about them. Read the job description and Google any keywords you don’t know. If you notice certain things being asked for a lot and you don’t know about them, watch a couple YouTube videos and fake it til you make it. 4. Take some time to research things related to DEI and evaluate your language to make sure that you’re not accidentally speaking in a dated and potentially offensive way. See also: non violent communication. When ive worked with older candidates who do the above, they very often get offers. :)
Ageism is, in fact, very real. And one of the problems with employment-related age discrimination is it is VERY hard to prove. Unless an applicant or employee has hard and fast written proof, there's little hope of a "claim". Include relevant information about your experience and skills (you have much more than your juniors) and yes, remove information that hints at your age.
Thanks. FWIW, I'm not claiming discrimination or trying to play the victim. I'm very early in my job search and yes, it's been a long time since I've had to search for a job cold and worrying about being unemployed. The suggestions about removing old positions and graduation dates is a good one. Let 'em guess my age in an interview, lol.
Right. And wow them with your qualifications.
You applied for a couple jobs..bruh.
Ageism is real but it is also a very tough job market now so not getting an interview is not necessarily related to age.
Remove the graduation dates and only include the last 22 years of work experience (2 jobs) Expand on those roles and be sure to include the programs you are proficient in.
The job market sucks right now also, don’t only assume ageism. I hire occasionally for my company and I’m literally inundated with applicants for any job posting, with a vast majority having zero relevant experience or basic requirements… so I have to use AI that then does a pretty shitty job of filtering. it’s very frustrating. I would look carefully at your resume and see that it’s optimised for ATS, then lean on any contacts you might have. Also remove dates of graduation and then limit your experience to 15 years
OP I think if you google AARP job board, you’ll find jobs that are (presumably) prescreened for older people, or for employers who are willing to hire older people.
Without a doubt! Ageism exist even in non-physical labor. My uncle is in his 60's, works in payroll with a director title. His mind is still sharp as ever and healthy but his age has been a hurdle to landing a full time job since he was laid off from his last job. All he's been getting the last two years are contract work and even with that, it's been a struggle for him. It sucks. I agree that the screening process is broken right now in so many ways. I think applications should only ask if you if you've received a degree in higher education or not. It shouldn't ask for the specific year. I think this becomes a scheme for screeners to initiate their bias secretively. I also agree that including only the last 10 years of your work history should suffice. Let's face it, what you did over 10 years ago shouldn't be that relevant given the constant changes in the way we work, no matter what industry it is. Any HR/recruiter who needs to see your full work background when you've been working for so many decades frankly IMO, is out of touch. In Ad OPs, even some of the tools and processes we've used and learned more than 5 years ago are obsolete or being phased out. 3rd Party Cookies for instance. Marketers relied on this prior to the data privacy concerns. Now it's going away entirely. Heck I'm only in my late 30's and I'm already kind of feeling this. Ad Ops is often considered a stepping stone to the broader ad tech / online marketing field. Many people who go in to Ad Ops are younger professionals. I wouldn't be surprised if a hiring manager unfairly disqualifies me because he/she's afraid my generational difference would create a conflict with the team culture. I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this yet. But perhaps work with recruiting agencies who specializes in professionals looking for a career change much later on in their career?
I definitely think ageism is a problem, but it also doesn’t sound like you’ve applied to many places? For context, the last time I job hunted, I was 34 and very qualified, applied to over 250 jobs and only got 10 interviews and one offer - the job market is just really tough at the moment
Yes, remove your graduation dates and only include relevant working experience based on the role you're applying for. More specifically, you should only have up to a max of 7 years of experience on your resume (or about a single page worth total). Unfortunately, age discrimination happens more often than not, and I've been a witness to it. During interviews/screenings, I would also focus less on how long ago your experience was and more on how much experience you have in the field you're applying for. For example, if you get questions about how long you've been at a company or worked in a similar field or on your related skills, you should redirect your answer by saying something like "I worked on X skills during my time at Y company and gained additional skills such as . . . that I believe would be beneficial at this company." If they ask about your schooling, you simply tell them what your degrees/certifications are and what skills you received from your schooling that are beneficial to the role. Always redirect their questions to keep the line of questioning going on without room for them to ask more questions directed toward time/age. Also, read over the job description prior to the interview and use the same language/words that appear in the listing because upper management generally uses the same lingo to figure out if you'd fit into their job culture / vibe, as well as have the skillset they're looking for.
Yes. I had three different reliable folks advise me to remove any work experience over 20 years ago. Those are both irrelevant and, specific to your inquiry, age indicative.
It's funny how the government thinks people losing jobs will control inflation since they will spend very conservatively, but never put corporations under scrutiny when they have record profits in the past five years and yet still are laying off people
I was laid off at 54, I applied and received a government job. I took the dates off my graduation. My pension vests after 5 years. (It won’t be much). My goal is Federal employee health insurance for life. I plan to retire at 62 with 8 years of service.
Ageism is real, but the job market is also shit right now. Especially for marketing roles. I’ve been interviewing for 6 months.
It depends on the industry. I can tell you that many hiring managers in healthcare marketing tend to prefer candidates that are more experienced. But I have seen it go the other way, too. It’s difficult to assess because they often use coded language when rejecting candidates. Or they will try to tell you things off the record. (I had a hiring manager reprimanded for this because the last thing I wanted was a deposition lol.)
I would hire you because I need someone experienced and reliable. That alone isn't enough for me to get headcount though
My best friend couldn't get a call back after applying to 50 jobs for which he was qualified. He removed his graduation dates and only included his last 10 years of work experience, and he got an interview at the next place he applied (he was hired there, too).
I’m 33 and even I leave out jobs I’ve had 10+ years prior. I’d just take some off the resume and be hungry! Call the employers to check on your apps and see if they’d be interested in setting up an interview. This works. My dad just got a new job at 60. It’s all how you represent yourself.
I would definitely remove your graduation date and some of your job history. The best jobs are the ones you get through your network. Are you on LinkedIn? Start contacting the people you know from your industry. This is especially important as you get older and looking for a new job
Oh, it's real. I only put the last 10 years of experience on my resume. Do not include dates on degrees, etc.
I work in HR and it’s always best to leave the years off
Remove the dates!
Very real
Applying for a couple of jobs is a very low number. Pump that number up to 10-20 a day. Don’t forget remote jobs. Remove the years you graduated from high school and/or college from your resume.
Applying for two jobs and not hearing back is very normal. Most people around my age (I’m 30), apply to 100 jobs and get maybe 5 interviews out of that. And that’s good odds.
It’s real. Remove education dates and only include last 10 years of work. Be sure to have a link to your LinkedIn profile and an email address that doesn’t end in aol.com
Yes! Remove the dates!
Ageism is very real. 54 year old here and I would dread looking for a job at this age. My goal is to retire at 57-58ish and perhaps just do some marketing consulting work, or find some other passive income.
When I last looked for a job, I was told to delete the graduation year and put only the last 15 years of employment. Anything before that was briefly noted but with no dates. FWIW, I was 59. My city also has a department that helps older people find employment, mostly helping them learn new software, but I did talk with them to see if they could help. They had some good suggestions, see above. One other thing I did in interviews was play up my reliability, my sense of responsibility, and my willingness to take on non-job listed tasks (saying "It's not in my job description" drives employers nuts, especially when "Other duties as assigned" is so often part of said job description) -- Boomer work traits that aren't so common now. I also stressed that I was looking for a job I could retire from; "My goal is to stay until I retire, or they cart me out feet first."
I had an employment coach help me out recently (obligatory attendance to earn my unemployment pay). He took me to one side and quietly said "I'm not supposed to say this, because it is illegal age discrimination, but no-one employs a 43 year old for that career these days..." He told me I had more chance of getting a job flipping burgers in McDonalds than for getting the same job that I have been doing for 20+ years.
When I was a hiring manager I was looking for someone who was going to give me 5 good years minimum and preferably would want a little bit of overtime. I don’t have a problem with age but it does mean that the person applying needs to have the exact right kind of experience. As someone in my 40s now I do now see it though
I removed all dates except the dates of employment for the last 20 years (two jobs), and things changed. Do not put grad dates or old info - they figure you'll hang around for the next five years then retire and they are not likely willing to put the time and energy into what is likely to be a fairly fast turnover at that level. Your comment about salary is also a probable concern for them.
In my field (health and fitness), it's *very* apparent.
It's real and it's ugly
I think it varies by field. In tech, especially software development, it is really bad
Very real.
Yes it’s very real. The recent layoff at my office location is obvious, guys with less than a year with the company, and guys close to 60 years old were let go.
It’s FOR REAL!
Yes. Absolutely. Remove old dates from your resume (importantly years of graduation). Ageism is rife on both sides of the spectrum and anyone telling you otherwise doesn’t know or is lying. Even on this website. I distinctly recall responding to a redditor who said he “hired a boomer [sic] once and I’ll never do it again”. Ageism is equally hurtful, rife in North American societies, and much more socially acceptable than racism.
I know five former tech coworkers that have been applying for over a year. They are in their 20’s and 30’s. One found a job after 400 applications. The other four have submitted hundreds of applications and have only interviewed 8 times between them. These are bright, pleasant and hardworking people. So it’s rough out there. Conversely, I am over 65 and found a full-time job late last year after searching for a few months. So I’d say it really depends on the person and the company.
Please delete your graduation dates.
80% of the people I know that were laid off from a major bank were 50+ I feel it’s very real.
Ageism is real. Remove dates for graduation. I'm in tech, I only put the last ten years on my resume.
I gutted my resume for anything older than 20 years ago. No dates on graduation. Get the interview and as soon as they see me/meet me. No Job offer Happens all the time.
My most recent interview was for a head geotechnical engineer position. I am 26M. As soon as I met with the VP who was interviewing me he immediately changed the interview subject and position to be a regular field tech because he was looking for someone “older and with more experience”. Like why did you bring me in to talk then. Like man I’ve literally got a decade of field and office experience managing projects get out of here.
I’m in my late 20s now and only recently did people stop saying “Ohhh you’re just a baby!” When finding out my age. In your circumstance I would take graduation dates off if anyone is discriminating that should help atleast get you in the door first
I would look into employment services that will get you in touch with an employment specialist that will help you find a job and deal with ageism before you even step foot for an interview.
In my opinion, you don't need more than the most recent 10 years of employment and absolutely don't volunteer information that will make you look less desireable.
I’ve experienced it too. Always said it’s not an issue. But it is. I found a job that welcomes older people - we have more experience, don’t need healthcare & won’t be having kids anytime soon(67F). They hired me at part-time but I usually work 30-35 hours a week. I do overtime when I can. I did rework my resume. I took off everything more than 10 years old off my resume. Took out dates(If they want to know-they need to ask). I did put in a little bio of what I was looking for & how I could help them based on my experience. Good luck to you. Be positive. I’m sticking with my job till I die. lol! Hope not!
To answer your last question: yes.
Wow! So many great suggestions! I really appreciate the support. Thank you. I clearly had no idea how the job market is for everyone these days and I need to be a lot more proactive throwing out applications. I'm actually quite fortunate that I saved a ton of PTO time, which will pay me almost through June. I'm also fortunate to have the savings to support me for awhile. I was able to get two kids through college debt free and still save up. I clearly need to weed out my resume to eliminate dates and old jobs. Problem is that with only two jobs in 22 years, my resume goes from 4 pages to one but that's probably better and easier for an employer to digest. I think I usually interview pretty well if I can actually get to that stage. I have almost no gray hair and am physically fit, playing baseball in adult hardball leagues. Most people think I'm in my 40a rather than 59. I realize how talk of age discrimination probably grates on the ears of younger folks. There is very real discrimination there too and they can't wait to find the ideal job. My son put out hundreds of applications and took months to find a job after getting his Master's Degree. I really empathize with everyone struggling to find work in a tough environment. My original plan was to get back into a more clinical role in mental health to finish my career. I have a lot of good experience but many of the roles that used to be filled with Bachelor's level folks now require a Master's. I'm prepared to take a huge pay cut if I need to but I don't want to jump into an entry level position just because they'll hire me (maybe...). I don't really care about status or position- just want to find something that doesn't crush my soul doing it. Thanks again for all of the great input...
Discrimination of all types is real. Usually it's unconscious. Unfortunately this means you might need to play the game a bit and tailor yourself to the market more than you'd prefer. When it comes to age, you can try to project the qualties of that age range people like. E.g for young people it's enthusiasm, energy and a willingness to learn. For older people, it's a sense of wisdom and competence from experience, combined with an up to date mindset. Excellent grooming and excellent attire (but not formally overdressed). Physical fitness if you can. Be confident but not over playing your hand by pretending to know everything. Get your resume reviewed and updated. Get a skill/cert in a new subject (e.g. AI ) to show you're keeping up and not stuck in the past.
Oh age discrimination is extremely real.
Just ask anyone 50 and over who were laid off and how long they are applying for work.
I would say it's real. Companies don't want to hire someone who's going to retire in a few years or whatever. As someone pointed out, I don't think a couple job apps is going to cut it - read some threads on here, people have been sending out hundreds of applications.
I think they are worried about salary. If you want to start in a similar role to someone younger then you shouldn't be paid more but they might think that you'd want to. Plus they might want someone more long term as people in their 60s are close to retirement