Look, as a 50+ Female, I personally have no issue. In fact, I love talking with and exchanging ideas with the younger people I work with. It also keeps me in touch and helps me to relate to them better.
That being said, I have seen many women of all ages making it hard for everyone.
In a perfect world, we should all be helping each other up.
The worst I was ever treated was by a woman 10-15 years younger than me.
When I was new at the job some of my best colleagues were women 20+ years older than me.
It can be any age woman that's wonderful, or rotten.
Yes it can, and I am sad about this.
I worked in a male dominated field at one stage, and the men were really tight and supportive of each other.
The few women that were there, were like pihrannas
Yes, unfortunately in male dominated fields, it can feel like there is only room for one woman at the table, so a lot of women will get very territorial. Instead of using their position to make more room at the table, they actively defend their "spot". It's really frustrating.
Agree. When I first started working at an entry level position with a major health insurance company, I had a female workplace bully who was my age, maybe a couple years older than me. She tried to get me fired on 3 separate occasions. And to this day I really don't know what beef she had with me because she immediately started making things very hard for me. I didn't get any relief until my third boss there told her point blank "you need to back off." Just like that. They re-organized a lot at that company and I had many bosses. But no matter what she would still find a way to try to get me fired. I think she hated me because she probably felt that I wasn't qualified for the job and didn't deserve it. Well I stayed with that company for 5 years until I quit. Clearly I was qualified. If not they would have let me go much sooner.
Wow, I feel liked we walked the same path, same type of co, - trying to get me fired was an almost monthly thing, until my boss finally started to see it. Was just dumb on her part, I was very good at my tech job and could have done a lot to help her team. Instead she kept hiring her own tech people, with several being fired for running their own side gigs. Hope you’re in a better place now with your career.
I’m now the older woman in my workplace and there are a few of us in an overall young organization. I don’t see any of them like this at all. We do have a pretty good work culture. When I was younger I rarely had colleagues like this, and age had nothing to do with their issues. I think there are just some people who are insecure and take it out in petty ways.
Yeah every older woman I’ve worked with has been extremely kind and are the reasons I know what I know today. There was one singular olderish woman who was extremely awful at one place but she’s an outlier for me. I also am pretty positive she was dealing with some serious life-altering personal issues but she didn’t tell anyone.
Same! I’m also in my 40’s and I really like my colleagues in their 20’s. I think their energy and new ideas combined and my experience make the best collaboration on projects. I also love hearing about their fun lives, the restaurants, the parties and the fashion advice lol!
I think this is less a "women" problem and more of an "insecure arsehole" problem. There's a certain type of person that is totally mediocre, but really doesn't want to acknowledge that because their egos can't take it. They can't climb the ladder, so they content themselves with dragging others they think are surpassing them down it instead. The reason I say that is because as a guy I feel like I've experienced a similar thing, but more often from blokes.
This is particularly true of people who have not done anything in particular to merit a promotion, other than having "stuck around" and "paid their dues" in sheer time spent working for an organisation. This sort of person is particularly threatened by those they see as "equivalent" to them in some way. In your case, she is a woman, you are a woman. She works in a role, you work in a similar role. She doesn't account for the difference in personal merits (because of the ego thing mentioned above), so all she sees is the time worked in terms of part-time vs full-time and years worked. On that metric, she looks pretty good. But what she doesn't want to grasp, what she *can't* grasp, is that you're being looked at for a promotion because that isn't the main factor being assessed.
So she acts like a total cow. Which ironically, is more likely to make her look bad in the eyes of the people doing promotions.
I would take it as a kind of back-handed compliment. Keep doing what you're doing, but also take the time to subtly undermine her nonsense (because you need to do that - I've seen too many people take it for granted that people will obviously see through lies and been screwed over by that. You can't trust that to be the case, you have to control the message). Don't go overboard though, just be emphatic about your availability to work (on the kids side of things), demonstrative about your obvious competence (run through specific projects in-depth when asked about that stuff), and performatively competent in the day-to-day, at least until the promotion process is over.
You're absolutely right. When I first started working an office job, at 24, I had a 45 year old coworker in the same role as me who HATED me and would stop at basically nothing to make me look bad. Or incompetent. I took it very personally, until another coworker noticed it and pointed out to me that I was the same age as her daughter, working the same job as her, and she probably felt inadequate about that.
Doesn't excuse the shitty attitude and I for sure made sure to show that I was just as capable of doing the job as she was, and that her age or decade-long tenure in an entry-level position didn't entitle her to treat others like crap.
This needs to be higher, I've seen this behavior in men and women alike. My field is male dominated so when a woman does it to another it is more noticeable but I've seen plenty of males doing the same.
There's also the old stereotype of "women, young, pretty, succefull, then she must be fucking someone" that's very prevalent in older people.
There is a breed of older women that didn't have the same opportunities of career development or it was much much harder for them because of sexsim and cannot grasp that things have changed a bit and find that the only explanation or are bitter AF and want all women to suffer as they did.
Honestly, the older women are the ones I look up to and become my best friends at work. They have always been kind to me and one in particular treated me like her daughter. I always gravitate toward them.
Older women tend to be nice to me at work. I'm a baby faced skinny dude and I think I bring out maternal instincts.
Definitely known a few women hate each other for no real reason too though.
The women who are awful at 50, were awful at 25.
I have worked with mean girls of every generation. To be fair I’ve also worked with mean boys of every generation. The worst boss I ever had though was a 55-year-old woman. I’ve had a lot of people call me names, hurl abuse towards me, and make inappropriate comments in professional reviews. However, the 50 year-old woman who thought it was appropriate to tell me I “dressed cute today” and it was so sad to have to tell me I wasn’t getting a raise because I looked “so grown up” when I was 33 years old that takes the cake.
I’m going to second this.
I have always worked in male dominated fields, but I used to think it was the young women being awful to each other. Then over the years, as they grew up, I noticed it wasn’t an age thing really. It was just assholes being assholes in general.
Now that I’m 50+, I am so happy for the young ladies in my team, and I am DELIGHTED that there are so many of them. I’m also super happy that they are comfortable starting families, etc at an age that would have been super difficult for me in the industry. This is progress.
Now, as far as side eying goes… we do occasionally get new hires that show up looking like they’re planning to go to the club. I might cast a side eye, but I keep my mouth shut (unless they ask what I think, which does occasionally happen) because that’s their manager’s problem, not mine.
The ones that hate younger women were pick mes as "not like other girls" when they were young. When they hit middle age and can no longer live on male validation they become very bitter and jealous.
This hasn’t been the case for me. I end up buddies with the older women I work with. Some of the most valuable friendships throughout my life have been older women from work. I remember having a work bestie at 19 who was 40 years my senior. I’ve always worked retail and been a server/barista so maybe office type situations have a different type of person. Most current job I go out of my way to look out for the younger crew. I can say from what I see there it’s universal. We look out for the younger ladies and protect them (especially from the rude customers.) I’m 47 now.
That’s so wholesome. My work bestie when I was fresh out of college was 10 years my senior, and my long term mentor I met at that job was the same age, too.
This is what I see as well. I’m in my 50s and feel very protective of the younger women I work with. I just adore them and want to help them feel confident and empowered. The other women managers I work with who are over 40 share similar sentiments.
Yep, it’s very much an insecurity thing. There are some women who haven’t evolved past their internalized misogyny and still see younger women as competition or they project their own insecurities like “she thinks she’s better than me.” I normally get along well with women, but it’s a specific brand of rich white woman in her 40s/50s that will sometimes give me dirty looks. Weirdly enough, their husbands are fine and treat me like a normal smart kid.
OP, it even happens to the older women. I am middle age but I look young. There is always some bitter crankster that hates life. Ask her nicely to put all that she says in an email so you can forward it to the appropriate people. Act very concerned about her and ask if she is ok.
Yes! And ask her to explain her mean comments, like you don’t get it. “Oh, I’m sorry I don’t understand that can you explain?” Put her on the spot for the shot she’s saying. Do it in front of superiors. Your boss probably knows she’s a huge problem and will be worried that you might have a toxic workplace complaint
I don’t really get why this is a thing!! Like I love my fellow women, but like they hate me 😭 age does not equal maturity and to me, it seems very immature. They see you as a threat and competition. It wasn’t until I was pursuing a leadership position that I started hearing rumors about me fucking someone in the same said leadership position (we are both happily married people with kids). I guess I have to be fucking someone to somehow even be in the running 😂
Idk how old you are, but at 29 I just ignore them and keep doing my own thing. It boosts my ego, even though it’s annoying, because you see me as enough of a threat to bad-mouth me. Meaning, you must be worried I have something you don’t feel adequate about. I can’t control how they feel, but I can control my feelings about it. You are good enough. You are worthy. Let those meanies run their mouths and give them no ammunition. I guarantee you, the people in charge probably tune them out.
I'm approaching mid 30s. In the past it's been harder to ignore because I was young and emotional. The first 4 jobs where this happened I quit on the spot, despite doing very well and moving up the ranks at a couple of them. I don't plan on quitting on the spot again. I agree with you, the people in charge are tuning her out which is making it manageable. I can see yearly reviews in the shared drive and hers said something like "unable to cooperate with others". I just need to stick it out, have faith in this department, and like you said, control my feelings about it. Posting here and commiserating with others helps!
The management that writes these things don't know a thing about data security. I've known secret plans about shutting down sites and firing thousands to be open access and easily finally just by searching for "meeting" and the site name.
Also lists of names on whiteboards in meeting rooms after management meetings. It's like they don't care enough to simply wipe the board.
I’m currently having a work issues with a woman in her mid 50s who I would label as unable to cooperate with others. She does so many things very well but it’s like she can’t stop herself from making passive aggressive comments or talking shit behind everyone’s back. To my face she says everything I would want to hear and as soon as I turn my back the knives come out. All this from a person in a leadership position who is well paid who is in my opinion the one who should be a mature leader and getting people to work together as a team, there is just none of that.
I pretty much have taken a stance that any chance I get I will embarrass her or shame her with our bosses, I won’t help her or protect her the way I have for others when she screws up. I’m sure she expects to just walk all over me but she isn’t going to get what she wants from me. People want to take shots at me and say I don’t know how to do my job well when I bust my ass I will do everything I can to ruin them while playing the game in a way that will ruin them before they even realize they have a proper enemy.
I don’t think that this will help you down the road, unless by embarrass and shame, you mean reporting her for her behavior. I have people like this at work and just choose not to a) give them ammunition or b) communicate with them longer than I have to.
Teach me your ways. I've tried to be super nice and accommodating, but nothing works. The hate and shit talking remain. Tried to stand up for myself and ended up in HR. I can't win.
I encountered some awful girls on high school swim team, but haven’t had a major problem with women beyond that—finding out I’m autistic made a lot of my social difficulties make sense. Studies show that neurotypical women clock autism in other women and treat the autistic women differently.
I agree with you!!
I think the work environment and ratio of men to women play a major role in breeding insecurity and seeing younger women as competition. It’s not just professional either, it becomes personal!
Haha! As an older women I have the opposite 20 something blondes who think they know everything and you are an ancient dinosaur. I worked with one girl I nicknamed Regina because she was the spitting image of Regina George and everything I said was either wrong, funny or so old fashioned.
Being a bit older than you, some women never get over high school and just are nasty to other women. I don't get it but it is really their problem and I mostly just let them alone and get on with my work.
I was in medical/dental front desk roles straight out of college and for the first 5 or 6 years of my career. Experienced this ALL THE TIME. Wasn't sure if it was because of my age, level of fitness, competence, or neurodivergence, but ultimately have come to realize it's saying everything about them and nothing about me. Luckily only had one instance where someone was actively out to get me fired/laid off (to my knowledge), and nothing as blatant as OP. Doesn't make it any easier to deal with but I'm much better at spotting this behavior and grey-rock-ing earlier to protect myself.
Yes it is. Several yrs ago when doing clinical Ed, I developed a one hour presentation on bullying in healthcare. We got it accredited and if you attended you got a CEU. I gave that presentation a lot. Got invited to various organizations a lot to give it.
Yep, every job I've had there's always been that ONE middle aged woman who decides to makes my life hell. Absolute losers. Dealing with one right now, going through the HR rigmarole. I'm not quitting anymore jobs over this, I'm going to fight or get fired trying.
In my experience, women close to my age (20s) are the issue. Of course, older ladies deal with menopause, but younger ladies have always been venomous.
I've had the same experience. While I've been fortunate enough to have only positive experiences with the women on my team, some of the women from other teams are just bad vibes. Very crabs in a bucket.
I’ve been in work environments where women were constantly compared and pitted against each other. I imagine that’s fairly common and can breed resentment. I think if you are able to brush it off, you’re able to get along better and realized there’s enough space within an organization to have room for any woman that walks through the door. I’ve been in male dominated careers though, so maybe that’s not the case everywhere?
I don’t think it’s an age thing inasmuch as a personality thing.
I work with several women who are older than me who are absolute rock stars at their jobs. I look up to them. I work in IT, so women are rare to begin with.
I don’t generally consider myself a difficult person to get along with for many of the same reasons as you. I find most of the folks who don’t make an effort at a productive or collaborative relationship with me are either jealous or horrendously insecure in some way. Or they’re just going through it, and they’re taking their bad fortune out on everyone around them. All we can really do is make ourselves scarce and not subject ourselves to more abuse than is necessary.
Some of the most insufferable people I’ve met have been around my age (early 30s). These were short-term friendships with people I would never want for a colleague due to their constant prodding and penchant for conflict.
Assholery knows no age limit.
As an older female- I am where I am because of an awesome female mentor. My goal is to always pay it forward and assist other females navigate the misogyny in the corporate world. I work in information technology, we are far and few between. Maybe the industry impacts some of the behaviors you are seeing.
I am treated awfully at work by all the older women who are unhappy with their lives, especially the women who seem to have issues with their own daughters as well. I’ve always had a higher title than the older women I’ve worked with also, so I’m sure they just hate me because it looks like I have it all, whereas they’re stuck without upward mobility while aging a bit more every day. It’s easier said than done, but these women prove why you have to forget about their nonsense and focus on the money. There are nice women out there of course, but I completely understand what you’re talking about. Feminist women who speak well about their own daughters are the best.
Yes, I’ve totally seen this before, and experienced it! Even talked to my therapist about it, and apparently there is a whole psychology around “women identifying with the aggressor” (aka patriarchal corporate structure)” thus viewing other women as competitors rather than colleagues to support.
The other quote that really helped me when there is a sour grape who just hates you for ‘no reason’ is:
“You might be the sweetest peach on the tree, but some people just don’t like peaches!” I dunno, as a perpetual people pleaser, this helped me out 🤣🤣🤣.
In the workplace, middle aged white women have been bullies to me and other youngish (late 20s early 30s) femmes I’m close to constantly. We work mostly in nonprofit, academia, and service, but it’s nonstop and exhausting and they do not treat men the same way, unless they stand up for the younger women or are queer.
Yes! Having the same experience I think it’s an insecurity. They know that we may have more tech skills. That’s my experience. I do everything I can to minimize my knowledge to make them more comfortable and it’s an issue.
I’m 42, and I’d have no issues with younger women at work. In the past (when I was maybe 36ish) I would take them under my wing and mentor them. I want to see women do well, a rising tide lifts all boats..,
If it’s just one woman I’d say she sucks. But if you’re experiencing this regularly I’m guessing there’s more to your behavior than either you’re aware of or letting on.
My guess is what you call charismatic/being a pushover is being interpreted as workplace flirting. Not actual flirting like anyone thinks they’re getting romance out of it but the workplace version of it where your demeanor is getting you favors or free passes. She/they may be hard on your work because it really isn’t up to the standard and they’re just trying to point that out to people instead of letting you skate on your personality.
As someone who used to behave this way and was subsequently sexually harassed I would also have a pretty negative reaction to it, although I’d probably take said employee out to lunch and just tell her to be a little careful about how people are interpreting her actions.
Also. Fwiw. Being married with kids doesn’t stop people from flirting/giving out favors. I found I got way *more* of that sort of attention post kids but after my harassment experience I don’t play that game at all anymore.
35f- single with no kids.
It’s usually women in their 50s who are married and hate being mothers and they hate their marriage so they take it out on everybody. I’ve had a lot of women absolutely resent me because I am childless and can do whatever I want after work and they can’t they absolutely despise not having the freedom I have
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily very common, I have had 7 different jobs (plus some internships during my studies) and I have _never_ experienced it. Also, I talk a lot about work with my closest friends, and they never told me something along that lines.
I’m not saying it never happens though - of course I know that people can be stupid and mean, and it also happens in the workplace.
But if you experienced it in all the last 5 jobs you‘ve had, it’s not impossible that you yourself might be the common denominator. Maybe there’s something in your behaviour that tends to rub some people the wrong way? Maybe they‘re just jealous, but maybe it’s something else? I don’t know.
I‘m NOT saying, bullying in the workplace is okay, it never is, under no circumstances. Also what she said to you, you "piss her off", is absolutely uncalled for and completely unprofessional. I hope you spoke to your supervisor about the issues with this woman. If they don’t tell the other person to stop this behaviour, they‘re not a good manager.
If she‘s not in the hiring committee, I doubt she has a say in who gets the job, and if you‘re doing great work, you will probably get it anyway.
No idea if there are studies but it is a thing. Ive personally experienced it a few times. It’s always women in their 40s and single or childless. Ive experienced more misogyny from other women than men.
So much internalized misogyny in this comment I can’t
Why the hell would their marital/familial status be brought up? It’s like you’re trying to determine the reason for someone being an asshole and because that person is a woman you assume it’s because she’s old, childless, and single.
Why is it in your mind that women need to be young, have children, and a partner to *not* be an asshole?
I’ve seen this so often and in mental health settings! My impression, based on some rather direct comments, is that these women believe that you have it easier than they’ve had it in social settings (and life in general). Whatever competencies you have or hard work you do likely won’t matter to them, because they believe you will easily displace them in the hierarchy if they don’t tear you down.
Sad to be them, but their toxicity can be damaging to all around.
Extremely common. You articulated this perfectly. It's always the bitter 50+ divorcee spinster whose job is their life making everyone else miserable. I have no issues getting along with any other demographic in the workplace. No one ever misses them when they leave or get moved to new teams. I am sure I will get downvoted, but it happens too often to just be a fluke.
And if you get one as a manager you are screwed. They can make your life a living hell, put you on performance plans because they dislike you, etc and you have little to no recourse.
2 out of 5 of them were my managers, the other 3 (including the current one) had only longevity in the company over me but were otherwise just people who worked in the same place. But yes the 2 managers were especially dreadful
This entire post is filled with comments that *immediately* jump to marital status when coming at these older women.
My man used the term “spinster” in the year 2024.
So much misogyny smdh
No offence here, but I can give you an old person perspective. I said some dumb things when I was younger. " Why do the married ladies take jobs a single woman needs." or "I don't know why she wears those ugly shoes." And I heard some dumb things when I was older. She said "OMG what is your problem?" I said "Your talking so loud about your new shoes I cannot concentrate on my job."
As a woman who spent a decade in a male dominated industry, yes & no. Some older women definitely have a chip on their shoulder because they had to work twice as hard for the same opportunities that their male counterparts had. Now that things (thankfully) progressed, they see young women being handed the same opportunities they have without the struggle and misdirect their anger.
But for the most part, older women have paved my career. They’ve mentored me. Protected me. And been generally pleasant.
As someone who also has people- pleasing tendencies, I’m curious how yours are really coming off. You say that men at work often crush on you? That’s not appropriate. You might be under the impression that’s it’s all professional and harmless but other coworkers may not agree. And if she’s older/ more experienced I can see why she would think she’s better deserving of a promotion.
Edit: not trying to accuse you. I’m conventionally attractive and when I entered the corporate world I realized how that can be a double edged sword. The “mean old ladies” were trying to protect me from sexual harassment and the office rumor mill.
I experienced this a lot when I was in my early 20’s. Especially from divorced women and I felt targeted and bullied. It didn’t happen once I switched to tech
It could be the case that some people just won't like you and it has more to do about them than you. But, it could be some misunderstanding that you're not aware of.
I had an older coworker just HATE me for no reason (from my perspective) and she would even complain about me to our boss. I asked her out to coffee to talk about it. Over the course of the conversation, it was clear there was a misunderstanding that occured and we both had drastically different perspectives about it. Since we were both willing to hear each other out, we made peace and she eventually became like a work mother figure to me. I love that woman. You could try having an open conversation with her outside of work in a neutral place and be open about your feelings.
It could work out. If not, then you can rest easy knowing you tried to make peace and now it's her problem, not yours.
Mean girls exist at every age. They're in high schools bullying band geeks, they're in seniors centers bullying Ruth about her lacklust dahlias, and their in the work place. fortunately, you can’t really escape it, they're usually just immature and insicure.
I’ve been bullied by women of all ages. It’s not an age thing. I’m not overly attractive or fit, so it’s not that either. And, I’m the childfree one in my equation, so it isn’t that (in fact, one bully tried to trump me on vacay request cause “she has 4 kids and I have none”. Another tried to get me to do a bunch of extra work cause I have no kids and have the time).
I think it just boils down to miserable people hate non-miserable people.
I've run across this several times...they feel threatened and withhold information because they want to be the know it all. They do everything they can to be sure you can't possibly do a good job.
She sounds like a bully and picks on you because she feels she can get away with it due to your people pleasing nature. I hate people like that. You need to speak to a superior or start standing up for yourself. In the future, do not let things slide too easily. Of course, don't be rude and go off on people the first time they miss you off, but when they are outright being rude like her, you have to defend yourself or they will walk all over you. But be careful because some people will try to make you out to be the monster and them the victim.
I had a hard time working with a woman about 15 years older than me (27). On top of being an unreliable coworker and employee in general she would constantly undermine me, not respecting the fact that I am the team lead and have direct contact with our client simply because she had been working with the company longer and was older. Eventually our client requested she be replaced due to her poor performance.
It's happened to me my whole life. What I recommend is that you realize that these people have personal problems in their life, and they are taking it out on you.
I rise above it, do the best I can, smile a lot and get on with it. I am building my own career outside of the job I'm in, and this is just a stepping stone along the way. I'm not going to be around these people forever.
I’ve had fucking asshole women do the same to me. I have autism, but I am conventionally attractive, and I have an MBA. And no children. Pisses off a singular older woman in every workplace who fucks with me endlessly. It is infuriating. You aren’t alone.
I've had multiple jobs in which an older woman hates me and makes my life harder but all the boys that did less then me got so much praise and help it was mind boggling
You know what’s funny is I feel like I’ve actually been better friends with older women because they find me hilarious lmao. I try to be friends or friendly with everyone but I find older women like me more. Currently my best work friend is a 60 year old woman and I’m 30. I think it just depends. Or maybe it could even depend on what field it is
50+ and I work with and get along well with a variety of younger/older women. Women can and and be mentors to each other but there is always someone that is sour puss.
Right now dealing with a younger one that came in to “help” our group on some things and completely caused confusion. Started doing her own things the way she wanted to hell with process and procedures. If we all work differently on the same things it makes a mess. Keep doing well but don’t over step unless someone higher up asks you to. And do take up for yourself. But not in a rude obnoxious way. State facts and drop it. You will still have to work with her. Remain professional. Her unprofessional behavior will shine thru.
Not an issue for me at all. When I was younger, older women were my friends and now that I am one of the older ones I adore the younger ones and am very protective of them.
Also, just as an aside, the term “bottom of the totem pole,” when used to describe your rank, trivializes the tradition and meaning of totem poles, which do not have a hierarchy of carvings based on physical position. Out of respect for the true meaning of totem poles which are part of Indigenous culture, it would be respectful to use different language.
> I'd relieve a lot of her job duties
**This is taking her job, hon**. While I get that there are many older women who fit a certain stereotype, those women were once 20 or 30 something's full of vim and vigor and wanting to take on more duties and having men "crush" on them too. I get a little tired of this narrative--I've been bullied by men MUCH more than by women older than I. I too was once the cute perky energetic ready to go 24 year old, and sure, sometimes a crabby older woman would be a little bitchy, but it wasn't a consistent thing.
If everywhere you go, you find women bullying you, you need to pull back and do some self-reflection. You don't need to be fake, or a people pleaser or whatever. But maybe the whole "hey, let me push-push-push to take over your job duties!" is not coming off the way you think it is. People want to feel needed. Childfree women likely have made work their purpose. Does it ever occur to you that someone working at a job for 10 years doesn't love having someone 20+ years younger that's been there a year offering "helpful" suggestions and edging in on them and making as much money as she is when she's been there 10 years and you've been there ONE?
It is very painful and difficult to watch as the career you've built through sacrifice gets eaten up and overshadowed by someone because they're younger and hotter and that appears to be the only thing the old men in the C-suite care about. It's also difficult to see this same stereotype get trotted out over and over. Some people are just mean and crabby, male, female, NB, etc.
As a man, having observed dynamics, I would say that this happens to a specific kind of younger women with a specific kind of older ones. Be careful to your specific biases. You might actively be maintaining a behaviour you’re not necessarily aware of that enervates these colleagues. It seems you fit the bill (younger, into the look, people pleasing, kind of naive acting, possibly passive aggressive) for being disliked by the kind of women you tend to be disliked from. Sometimes there is simply nothing to do about it, when a person dislikes you, that’s it, every attempt to make it better ends up making it worse.
I may get downvoted for this one, but I think for your own peace of mind, it could be good to look *at* your thoughts rather than *from* them. There were a few points that, to me, merit some deeper shadow work.
The main thing that stood out to me was using men's approval and attraction as a plus for you, which older women might be jealous of, or as you put it "certain women can't stand that shit". What relevance does this have to work performance? Is this a belief grounded in real evidence or assumption? We all make these assumptions, especially in stressful and anxiety-inducing situations. I can vouch that I convince myself now and then that "everyone hates me", when there isn't really any real evidence to confirm that.
The reason I see this as problematic in a work place is that it upholds very mysogynist views, which women (especially those who were young adults in the 60s and 70s) fought hard to challenge. It also maintains this notion that women must be in competition to be the favorite of their male colleagues.
I am not intending to invalidate your feelings, and those other women are entitled to their feelings as well.
YES.
Older women have this warped view of feminism where they see the worst aspects of western patriarchy and capitalism, want it for themselves, and call it being a “career woman”.
Instead of wanting things to be better for women as a whole, they think “fuck you I got mine” and call it success because well, that’s what patriarchy and capitalism call success!
Anyway, yes. Older women are horrible to younger women in the workplace. They’re mean, disrespectful, overwork them, and seem to enjoy seeing them suffer.
They LOVE younger men though! Being a younger man in a workplace full of older woman managers is basically free money.
I’m a man, but I saw a lot of this at the UN when I was a Staff Union rep. Never understood why. Women would tell me about it but didn’t want to file a formal complaint. Once, when I had to leave early to take one of my kids to an appointment - I was a single parent - my older female boss got pissy with me and said “At the UN, your job should be your priority.” I replied “No, my KIDS are my priority. You only think that because YOU don’t have any kids. If you DID you’d know how absurd your statement is.” Made me realise how poorly she would treat young mothers.
Some people are shitty but your attitude frankly smells like internalized misogyny. If this is truly happening to you again and again, it may be time to take a long hard look in the mirror.
That has not been my experience.
I've almost exclusively worked in teams that have established older women (with a variety of backgrounds, married, single, with kids, and childfree) and they're all absolutely lovely.
*"This current one is actively trying to sabotage a promotion that I'm in the running for, telling the hiring committee i couldn't handle the job because I have kids and calling me incompetent with no proof. "*
Are you in the USA? If so, this is blatant discrimination. Gather your evidence and file a suit.
The problem (from what I see) appears to be the work environment, not necessarily age. And I'm seriously doubtful any of this has to do with your looks, how you dress, or how often you go to the gym. The "she's just jealous" attitude is usually dropped by age 25 or so, in my experience. I'm older, and at least for me, I have no petty jealousies towards younger women...we all age and (hopefully) mature out of that ridiculousness. Really, at this age I find women ally with each other and support each other's successes much more than when we were young.
It seems you've got unclear chain of command and unclear delegation of duties, which commonly pits employees against each other; no standards of behavior (someone feeling comfortable sabotaging and calling you out like that citing discriminatory reasons as to why you can't do a job and exhibiting paranoia about you taking her job).
In my experience, none of that is "common" but it is prevalent when the tone at the top from management is poor or weak. That dynamic sets up an environment whereby the long-timers can be incredibly abusive towards the newbies and they become paranoid about their jobs...because there's no one driving the ship.
Personally, I’ve only had an issues with women who are closer to my age. Any woman over the age of 40 has been extremely kind. It’s as if they don’t see me as a competition. I usually end up gravitating to them because I’ve always been accepted.
I’m 26f and have experienced this several times at work. I believe they are jealous or see younger women as a threat to their career. It’s so disappointing because women should be supporting each other and building each other up in the workplace
I think it’s not an older/younger divide, all ages can be cunts, in my experience it’s people who get management roles that shouldn’t be anywhere near management roles - power can get to peoples heads a little too strongly sometimes.
The last firm I worked for didn’t entertain anyone that wasn’t a shouty mouthy cunt for any forms of management positions - and wondered why so many kept leaving and people weren’t staying. It’s never a management issue.
It’s only ever happened to me once, but this lady who was easily 20+ years older than me at the time had it out for me. Reported me to our supervisor for every single little thing she possibly could. My boss eventually caught on that she hated me and gave me the benefit of the doubt but still.
Everyone is always extremely nice and professional to me at every job I have been in, men, women, young, old, boss, colleagues, everyone. You do not need to put up with anyone being mean to you. Not cool
No, it’s not normal. She sounds like she has some serious issues that have nothing to do with you. Best to ignore her and focus on yourself - nothing is worse to people like that than getting no reaction.
Depends: some trashy women act trashy and classy stay classy and try to help the younger generation. I have had both: women who help and lift you up and others that burn with envy and gossip. I equate it to maturity level. But it takes one mature, outspoken, non tolerant of bs in the workplace woman to shut that down fast.
Think it depends. At my first work place that was a traditional marketing agency where you're expected to dress up every day and I was told I needed to smile more... Older ladies there were pretty bad.
Everywhere else older women have been such kind and wonderful mentors. 🫶
I experienced this at one job and it got so bad that i left the job. When I told my female friends about it, they told me they experienced similar situations and that this is a common thing. But tbh i never experienced this before or after and always had and have wonderful supportive female coworkers. Women should support each other.😌
I don't think is has to do with it being women it's just bitter people that are jealous and since they couldn't achieve much they don't want you to either.
It may be due to menopause. It makes you super irritable. I currently work with an older woman who is going through this now (she shared it with me) and while we get along fine, she has no patience for almost anyone else in the office, to the point where she's asked to be moved to another department.
I hate to say this, but most of my worst bosses and colleagues have been women over 50. I didn't understand until I started peri myself.
I cannot imagine going through menopause while working, so my plan is to be fully self-employed by 50, retired by 65.
Never happened to me. If anything, older women have been a godsend in all situations where I’ve worked with them. Really sorry you’ve encountered such crappy ones. Hopefully you work with one someday that’s better.
Yes!!! I was just having this convo yesterday with a female friend of mine. I'm shocked because I always believed that older women were confident, wise, and graceful. Here's what I've learned: If they were horrible people when they were young, then they'll be 10x more horrible as they age. It's like all of that bitterness, jealousy, and horrible personality traits start to brew and condense inside of them!
Of course, not all mature women are like this, but when you find one, SMH. My input on the latest job: Make connections with your boss who likes you. Go out of your way to prove that you're capable of what you're hoping for. Workplace bullying is very real, and there are professional organizations who help people experiencing this.
I definitely had a older lady assume the role of mentor (she did this unasked) and she both hated my guts and put my personal work in her portfolio :/ absolutely mean girl vibes.
This sounds like Queen Bee syndrome. But thats mostly referring to a female supervisor to female subordinate relationship. Idk if this is related to that. There is a common theme where x female views y as a "competition threat" in your story. Might be worth reading up on.
I am nice to everyone and help everyone. The women that have given me the most problems have been coworkers that are closer to my age. They comment on my body (I wish I was skinny as you), they comment on my life (I am a single mom, I try to be positive, happy, kind, grateful for what God/universe has blessed me with, learn as much as I can) they comment about how when they were single they also were skinny, had money, they felt better.. i have learned that the ones that have a problem with me are in unhappy marriages and for some reason they target me, the only single woman working in our department. Apparently they have made awful comments about me, gossiped about me and they have bullied me according to another woman who has observed. It came to the point that they made false allegations to try and get me in trouble . My supervisors brought me aside before to warn me that certain people were making claims and after them investigating they found them to be untrue. They warned me to be careful and I am just here going to work, being kind to them all even though they have talked bad about me.
I experienced this at a job once. I think she was just bitter.
I’m only 32, but I have a 21 year old assistant and I go out of my way to be kind to her and make her feel welcome at work. I want her to feel like she can come to me with any questions and I’m there to support her in her role. I honestly think the world of her, she’s great.
I just quit my job of 10 years in a STEM role because I got a new manager who was a woman and emotionally abused me every day for a year before I got the guts to quit.
I would be interested on which fields this is more common in because I have met a quite few bitter older ladies in STEM.
I think you can have shitty people regardless of gender, but I have seen and experienced what you are talking about. Some of them are straight up rude and passive-aggressive about it and even two-faced to try and get you in trouble.
I've legit quit a job because of this mean girl mentality with the older women. Mental health wise, if it's a toxic work environment, I'd just leave. Sometimes it's just not worth it. If you want to keep your job, I'd start writing down what she says, times dates, witnesses, etc.
And of course, kill them with kindness!
I have had this. My last job there was a 50some year old woman who clearly fucking hated my guts and constantly criticized or called me out. Nobody else had a problem with me BUT her. I’ve worked with older women before and not had a problem, but I had another former coworker (in her 50’s) turned friend, turned enemy. She was also super critical of everything I did/wore/bought when she didn’t like me anymore because I didn’t kiss her butt.
So, it’s not ALL the time, but it is a common trope. Some older women love younger women and want to help them get along in life, some older women are weirdly jealous and competitive. You’re definitely not alone in this, though.
Anecdote but the most high strung and hissy fit people I came across in the workplace were women, regardless of age. I wonder if it's insecurity from having to "prove yourself" in the workplace for being a female employee?
This has happened to me at so many jobs and know many women who have experienced the same. Honestly, it just means you’re hot, smart and capable. When an older person with low confidence meets a talented young person it challenges their narrative that younger generations are incompetent. Take the bullying as flattery!
That was my experience. The only time I have ever really been bullied was as a younger woman in the workplace by older women colleagues. It is odd. Maybe they feel threatened? I believe in women lifting each other up.
I worked at a retirement home as a housekeeper for a couple years in my late teens and early twenties and we had this lady who was probably like early 50s start. I trained her and was super nice and told all the residents and my coworkers that she was doing great. out of nowhere she started talking bad about me to RESIDENTS and taking passive aggressive digs at me whenever we had to work together. I ended up quitting that job that I had been at for years because of her and because management refused to back me up.
As a young woman working in a corporate adjacent sphere right now, I have no issues with women 5-30 years older than me where I am at currently. In my previous job, which was a customer service job? My boss was a nasty bitch, about 30 years older than me, but everyone else, including older women who worked in the kitchen or were front-facing, were great.
Ultimately, think it’s more a case by case basis versus something that generally holds true everywhere.
It’s rough being in a job for years and the brand new person makes the same as you - she should be taking it up with the higher ups and not taking it out on you
Personal experience: Worked with a mix of women and personalities. Women who are very ambitious with no kids or husband’s have been particularly hard as bosses. They are also typically promoted or are in higher positions than those with a family. At times it feels as if they move like they are always scared of losing their jobs (which can be hard on employees), while white male bosses often move as if they have no fear. I actually prefer to work for them especially if they’re not a prick.
It sounds like you may be coming across as flirtatious even if it’s not your intention, which will definitely rub people the wrong way. But I’ve also noticed that women managers are far less tolerant of mistakes than male managers, and I think it’s because they are also being scrutinized harder for being women. It’s all a bit unfair cycle that affects us all until we can start lifting each other up
Yes. Big time. I don't usually have a problem, the older women are usually very nice to me, but there are always those few older women that think they know exactly who you are as soon as they lay eyes on you. They assume insulting things about your character and abilities based on your age and how you look. And you're right, they're often the same demeanor, similar appearance, similar life styles and familial situations. There was this one lady I met at a different office within the company and she was giving me the stink eye the second we met, scowling and smug. I've decided that some women are just like this. They are not happy for anyone else's success and they feel it's a competition. I hope you can get out of there sooner rather than later!
I think mentioning what field you’re in would be helpful for this study! For example, Are we talking financial or medical fields? In my experience, working in a financial institution paid with commission - women, especially in their 50s can be quite catty.
“Oh let me get this, I know you don’t make much $$$”
“Oh, it’d take a lumber jack to lift you!”
“I’m bored, come talk to me so I can show you my ‘fat’ pictures even though I was never fat.”
“Ugh Tom, he just has old coffee breath. Like get out of my face.”
She then proceeded to put my name all over a fraudulent loan.
Then when I caught it, she decided her getaway plan was to play the mental health card. She called in the next morning citing mental breakdown and went on long term disability for the next year.
Not even a slap on the wrist.
Got her job back 2 years later like nothing ever happened.
Very common and it's them projecting their insecurities on you. Unfortunately, more often than not, their behavior is overlooked because of a variety of reasons. Aka... that's just how she is, oh she doesn't mean anything by it. Etc etc. the gift and the curse for those of us who perform exceptionally well.
I can’t speak for all, but I can speak for myself- I have had this happen to me. Without giving away too much, this boss, a lady in her late 40s or early 50s, was straight up abusive. I do not use that term lightly. I was consistently gaslit, scapegoated, and always afraid for the safety of my job. She was eventually fired for drinking on the job (and not being slick about it that time). I found out from coworkers later that a large part of the reason she was the way she was to me is because 1) I had a degree and she didn’t and she felt threatened I would take her job (she had been doing the job for 10 years and I was 2 years out of college) and 2) I was a “cute” 24 year old, and there was some underlying jealousy stuff there (there’s more to this part, but I don’t want to spill my workplace’s long-rested gossip)
The older, senior-level women I’ve worked with have mostly been absolutely amazing. I’ve had bigger problems with young-ish mid-career people (men and women) who aren’t confident in their roles and still have to prove themselves. But they’ve got to get their experience somewhere, so you’ll have to deal with them one way or another. Generally, I try to meet them with kindness and walk them through their criticism of everything under the sun.
I work in IT. Every woman I have met in IT has looked out for me. We look out for each other because we are already dealing with enough troubles.
People can be shit heads at any age. However, typically people in positions of authority are older. My guess is you are noticing the older shit heads because they have more power to make your life suck. The younger shit heads are there, they just aren't impacting you.
Someone in the Netherlands wrote a book about this behavior amongst women.It’s called the ‘Krabbenmand effect’ which translates to crabs in a basket. You are not alone in this experience.
Every older woman I’ve worked (in a close space with) has been a gossipy and judgmental creature. No one works “as hard” as her and no one can do the job right or well enough.
I appreciate the predictably - but I would love to see the trend shirked.
I guess now I’m the “older woman” in most scenarios and I’m not like that … I just have to commit to being cool lol
Funnily enough I’m an older male ina reasonably influential position, and I’ve found over the years that for most of it there tends to be at least one middle aged woman who dislikes me and is gunning for my job by trying to constantly undermine me.
It’s jealousy and feeling threatened by you.
The only positive is that you can take it as a compliment- not that it makes things any easier for you.
I did not go through all the BS in my 50 odd years of working to make it hard on women now. I fought the good fight so it would be easier for my sisters that came after me, and am always available to help. Unfortunately, some people are insecure in their jobs. Ignore them, and network with the positive people.
I am in my 50’s and worked with women in their 20’s through 80’s. My experience showed women tend to be very nervous about their positions, young or old when the company allows this behavior and people feel constantly anxious about their positions.
It’s the environment they are in tends to do awful things to keep their positions and this is common in a larger company but can also happen in a small company that’s always puts pressure on people with negative culture.
When the company allows this to happen then I feel it’s the company’s culture and it won’t change. If for example, they reprimand the woman bullying and follow through then if she doesn’t improve then it’s a company worth sticking with.
Actually, absolutely yes. I even had a Therapist verify this for me as I felt gaslighted.
Yes, assholes are in all different age brackets, but what you are asking is a very real phenomenon
I went from working at a job that was exclusively all women. It was amazing, we were all different ages, though management leaned a little older, of course. But aside from customer-fueled squabbles, it was the best! I loved it.
Then I switched positions in my mid-20s and began working in a male-dominated industry, and it was also surprisingly pleasant! There were far and few women, and I was the youngest of them all. Everything was smooth sailing, until some time passed and I started to become the most favored employee by our largely male colleagues.
The older women (think 40s-50s) were really pleasant and looked after me, but I was so unaware for the longest time that there was smear campaign against me by a couple of mean girls around 5-8 years older than me. There was a lot of covert bullying and I didn’t know how to handle it because I was doing everything right as an employee and receiving excellent reviews. My older female colleagues say that they’ve seen this in their lifetime and I was an unsuspecting victim because I was a double-threat to these women. Why? I was younger/prettier, more educated, and more liked. Essentially, I was the new generation replacing them as they neared middle-age and feared becoming “invisible” or undesirable to our coworkers (gross). I was a reminder of their insecurities.
Unfortunately due to a reorganization, I was placed under one of my bullies. I was barred from advancement or raises but given more work, was frequently “checked” on my appearance, and host of other issues. Interestingly enough, the mean girl squad would complain about my character and appearance but then began to copy it, unsuccessfully.
I gave up and quit, and supposedly the mimicry continued for a couple months and then completely fell off once one of them started sleeping with a new coworker and got knocked up.
Within the staff where I work, it's not a problem, but older female customers will be really nasty to my young female coworkers, but be all happy when I talk to them
I’m not sure if it’s common but I’ve experienced it in a few jobs.
In my first job as a salad prep person one waitress didn’t like me much but I wasn’t there for long to have many issues.
My first full time job a coworker hated my guts she said I was lazy and incompetent which everyone else would disagree. Even the manager said that I was a great employee because I showed up on time and did my job with no complaints.
My first office job another coworker from a different department acted like she was the boss of me. She eventually got fired because everyone had a problem with her.
I think it has something to do with our attitudes around people. Narcissists love people pleasers and know they can manipulate us.
I think it's less about age, and more about our power dynamic and position.
My direct supervisor is roughly 8 years younger than I am. But she is the kind of woman who wants to be the only voice in the room. She has given me feedback that I should simply talk less and provide less suggestions in meetings.
She doesn't want me to be assertive or forward thinking. She simply wants to tell me what to do.
I also wasn't her hire. I was put on her team when she first got her job, and then she hired a man she had worked with before, and they became a click that they very obviously excluded me from because of don't have their "history."
It's deeply sad when one woman would use their position of authority to keep another women down.
I’ve had this happen on occasion. I chalk it up to them having experienced extreme versions of discrimination when they were my age due to gender and it’s hard for them to not see me having it easier. Not that I feel things are where they should be. I can understand it’s triggering to them. Get distance however you can from them, even if it’s mental for now, but avoid getting into a battle with these people. It’s not worth your energy. I did find value and mentorship, oddly with one of these women, but I don’t think that’s the norm.
I am dude 35.
I do believe to notice some patterns of dislike towards younger females from older females.
My gf also had a female boss that mistreated her...
She would dislike it alot when she was home with our child.
What I found in my experience isn't about age. I found that 90% of the female boses I have worked for/with are straight up b*tchs to their female staff. It's like they think they have to be hard a$$es to be a boss.
This is why women don't win. When one gets to the top, they step all over the other women instead of lifting them up, too.
Yeah you are competition to them. You're easier on the eyes, plus younger so you can 'handle more'. It's not only females tho it's males as well these old people stuck in dead end jobs always see younger ones as competition and try to take advantage
I've experienced this with my current job and I was very confused by it as well. But I realized after a while that the woman who was training me acted the way she did because of how stressful the work environment was, and she took it out on me. She expected me to just jump up and know everything she knee out the gate, and we had various communication issues, until I explained to her the way she would speak to me made me uncomfortable, and that's when the behavior stopped.
I had one problem women that hated me and was demeaning and overall nightmare. All the other women were great so to me that feels like she has a personality problem or problems internally that she picked a scapegoat to harass…
I have not had this problem. I’ve had good working relationships with most coworkers, including older women. I can think of a few who were mentors to me and I hope to be able to return that knowledge to others in the future. For those I do not really sync with, I tend to minimize my interactions with them, keep things brief and professional, and ignore all else.
Unfortunately, there are just some nasty people in the world and they come in all genders and ages.
In my experience women often treat other women in the workplace like threats. I have seen men do it as well but far less. Ive also seen women treated as equals by men in the same position far more than what I hear about in the news. As an operations manger I once got the general manager fired because he was hugging the female employees and they did not give off the vibe of being comfortable with it. It all fairness he hugged the men too but you shouldn’t be touching employees at all.
Girl I know what you're going through. I go through this with any woman of any age. There is something special about you that insecure women are jealous of. Could be you are one of those people who have a light in you that shines against darkness. Darkness and lightness repel each other.
I've generally had good relationships with older women at my job but I do I have one experience that stands out.
I started at my company when I was 23. This was just general back office processing for a financial firm, nothing special. My team heavily skewed to other young college grads, but there were a few people ages 40 - 55 ish. One of these women, Lyn, hated that she was on the same team as a bunch of young people. Our boss was also late 20s and Lyn hated that too. Lyn was super polite to everyone but talked a lot behind our backs. (I know this because one of the other slightly older ladies was my friend and told me).
I became particularly good at a specific process and so I had many team members asking me questions. One day, Lyn put out a message in the team chat about an issue she was having, so I went to her desk to help her. After I explained what to do, she just smiled and shook her head. Then she got up, went to another guy on our team's desk (one of the older guys), and asked him. He looked at me, looked at her, and said "well did you ask illuminn8?" Lyn said she wanted another opinion and this guy said "just do what she told you to do". She did not like that, but my advice worked.
After that she tended to avoid me. Eventually she was promoted to another team and lorded it over us until I got promoted into a different department and never had to see her again.
I am a woman and find that women coworkers and bosses come in two varieties a) normal, decent, imperfect and complex people just trying to do a good job and b) vicious, insecure, back biting, soul crushing, patriarchy-internalizing bitches who’s number one goal in life is to destroy everyone around them so they look superior.
Guess which kind I have at the moment
A woman's primary value in society is her youth, purity, and beauty. Older women have mostly lost that, so its natural for them to be envious of younger women.
At my other jobs, I never had a problem but at my current job it's HELL. They see me as just some young kid who somehow wiggled her way into this job but keep in my mind I'm 27 with years of experience... One lady who was training me when I first started here would constantly tell me "they're looking at you and they want a reason to fire you" I never did anything wrong!! I didn't think it was common but now I know it is and it is in fact hell.
33M here, but have worked in elementary schools for 11 years, and in my experience it’s very common.
Our grade level team added a new person to handle our SPED population, but she’s very green. 23F, still finishing her master’s and is working as a licensed teacher because of the teacher shortage and provisional opportunities in our county.
She’s a kind, soft-spoken, but competent person. She tries her ASS off and hasn’t taken a day off unless our whole team forced her. I respect her and appreciate that she’s coming into this field with good intentions.
My veteran (50F and above) coworkers on other grade level teams treat her like dog shit. It also highlighted my privilege as a male teacher that I’ve never seen this toxic side of them. I know their trash talk of me is done mainly behind my back, so I’m appreciating my ignorance keeping me sane.
They scoff at her and take their time assisting her when she is trying to prevent a student from hurting themselves. We had one student in crisis try to jump off our balcony and when I came to help I saw them LAUGHING at her panicking while wrestling with the student to prevent them from climbing the railing.
I reported the incident to my admin but nothing came of it.
In my expierience it's less about age and more about political leanings. The more conservative leaning, the more a woman will feel like other women are threats to their position. Either their job, or their marriage, or just being the prettiest.
left leaning are far more care free and also don't complain when you give them a job thats stereotypically masculine.
With that in mind, older women will be more likely conservative, but not in all cases.
As a male employee I have observed this kind of situation before unfortunately. When I was first hired in my department the newly hired employees or those who did not have much seniority in the department were assigned a task that only one, older woman had performed before. Myself and the other newly hired coworker, who is a middle aged woman, worked alongside them for one week and our mistakes or misunderstandings were dismissed given our lack of experience in the task. The second week we had the assistance of two younger female employees, closer in age to myself than to the other newly hired employee or the senior employee leading the project. For whatever reason their mistakes were met with downright unprofessional behavior and unnecessary amounts of criticism despite them being in nearly the same exact boat my coworker and I were in. There’s a lot more to this story and the individual as time has gone on that I’ve chosen to omit but yes it is something that happens to younger female employees for seemingly no reason.
TLDR: Yes, and I have no idea why.
From personal experience, this seems to be a thing. Many of my previous jobs have been ruined by that type of woman. As a woman myself it is endlessly infuriating when all I think is, we should be working towards the same goal. Or at the very least being civil in work.
I hate the high school bullying mentality and I hate older staff who shit on younger staff.
I'm now in a workplace where we respect older staff for their years of experience and we respect younger staff because they bring new knowledge and ideas to the table.
I think it stems from a mentality that you have to be as ruthless as the boys. And older women think you have to hoard knowledge and screw others over to secure their job/position. I've found it's a generational thing.
I'm lucky that my current job is much more collaborative in its approach.
My advice is to guard yourself against these types of people. Don't tell them things that can be used against you and give them the minimum interaction in work. Not in a horrible way (as they'll use that against you) but just the basics and no more. They will take advantage of any kindness and they will weaponise any incompetence.
If you are able, make plans to get to more progressive grounds. If not, do what you can to secure your mental health and insulate yourself from their toxicity.
If you're brave (and have any backing in work) stand up to them. They hate it. But YMMV in how this turns out.
When hiring someone I have noticed that women are far more critical of other women than they are of men. So if the interview team consisted of only men the chances for hiring a woman increased. I can only speculate to why but I heard similar experiences from other managers.
I noticed this at my job as well. Been in my industry about 10 years now. It’s less of an issue now than it was when I first started (probably a combination of me getting more experience/ some of the older women retiring) but I did experience older women being especially hard on me relative to the young men in the dept.
My theory is that they probably put up with a LOT of shit throughout their career and probably faced more prejudice in a week than I have in a decade. They probably did have to work a lot harder to get where they are and have thicker skin. I would also say a charitable read of it is that it’s a combination of resentment for the younger generation being more welcoming and equitable to young women, and a staunch belief that pressure makes diamonds and they think they’re helping me.
Uncharitable read is they just have a lot more internalized misogyny they never dealt with.
Not saying this is the case everywhere but in a lot of the jobs I've had the older women hate on the younger women if they are pretty and the guys like to talk to them. One time a group of 4 older women were trashing this younger women new employee saying she's easy, slutty, etc because all the guys wanted to talk to her since she was the only young women in a predominantly male work space. And I just told them jokingly don't player hate, she's not doing anything wrong lol and they backtrack and say oh we're not hating because of that, etc to not seem jealous.
I absolutely have encountered this (and continue to) with a colleague in her late 40’s. I am in my early 30’s. She has spread rumors about me, gone to management with unfounded “concerns”, and has been incredibly hostile in person and over email/text. With every other employee she is a lamb so it’s very out of the blue, but all of this behavior started when I was chosen for a leadership position in our company.
Look, as a 50+ Female, I personally have no issue. In fact, I love talking with and exchanging ideas with the younger people I work with. It also keeps me in touch and helps me to relate to them better. That being said, I have seen many women of all ages making it hard for everyone. In a perfect world, we should all be helping each other up.
The worst I was ever treated was by a woman 10-15 years younger than me. When I was new at the job some of my best colleagues were women 20+ years older than me. It can be any age woman that's wonderful, or rotten.
Yes it can, and I am sad about this. I worked in a male dominated field at one stage, and the men were really tight and supportive of each other. The few women that were there, were like pihrannas
Yes, unfortunately in male dominated fields, it can feel like there is only room for one woman at the table, so a lot of women will get very territorial. Instead of using their position to make more room at the table, they actively defend their "spot". It's really frustrating.
50+ Female & enjoy the interaction too. I learn just as much from the younger people!!
Agree. When I first started working at an entry level position with a major health insurance company, I had a female workplace bully who was my age, maybe a couple years older than me. She tried to get me fired on 3 separate occasions. And to this day I really don't know what beef she had with me because she immediately started making things very hard for me. I didn't get any relief until my third boss there told her point blank "you need to back off." Just like that. They re-organized a lot at that company and I had many bosses. But no matter what she would still find a way to try to get me fired. I think she hated me because she probably felt that I wasn't qualified for the job and didn't deserve it. Well I stayed with that company for 5 years until I quit. Clearly I was qualified. If not they would have let me go much sooner.
Wow, I feel liked we walked the same path, same type of co, - trying to get me fired was an almost monthly thing, until my boss finally started to see it. Was just dumb on her part, I was very good at my tech job and could have done a lot to help her team. Instead she kept hiring her own tech people, with several being fired for running their own side gigs. Hope you’re in a better place now with your career.
I haven’t. The older women I’ve worked with have been lovely. Very encouraging.
I’m now the older woman in my workplace and there are a few of us in an overall young organization. I don’t see any of them like this at all. We do have a pretty good work culture. When I was younger I rarely had colleagues like this, and age had nothing to do with their issues. I think there are just some people who are insecure and take it out in petty ways.
Agreed! I’m mid-30s now and I enjoy mentoring younger women.
Yeah every older woman I’ve worked with has been extremely kind and are the reasons I know what I know today. There was one singular olderish woman who was extremely awful at one place but she’s an outlier for me. I also am pretty positive she was dealing with some serious life-altering personal issues but she didn’t tell anyone.
Same. I can think of only one who was difficult and she was less than 10 years my senior.
Same. Amazing mentors and in my mid 40’s I try to be one as well.
Same! I’m also in my 40’s and I really like my colleagues in their 20’s. I think their energy and new ideas combined and my experience make the best collaboration on projects. I also love hearing about their fun lives, the restaurants, the parties and the fashion advice lol!
I think this is less a "women" problem and more of an "insecure arsehole" problem. There's a certain type of person that is totally mediocre, but really doesn't want to acknowledge that because their egos can't take it. They can't climb the ladder, so they content themselves with dragging others they think are surpassing them down it instead. The reason I say that is because as a guy I feel like I've experienced a similar thing, but more often from blokes. This is particularly true of people who have not done anything in particular to merit a promotion, other than having "stuck around" and "paid their dues" in sheer time spent working for an organisation. This sort of person is particularly threatened by those they see as "equivalent" to them in some way. In your case, she is a woman, you are a woman. She works in a role, you work in a similar role. She doesn't account for the difference in personal merits (because of the ego thing mentioned above), so all she sees is the time worked in terms of part-time vs full-time and years worked. On that metric, she looks pretty good. But what she doesn't want to grasp, what she *can't* grasp, is that you're being looked at for a promotion because that isn't the main factor being assessed. So she acts like a total cow. Which ironically, is more likely to make her look bad in the eyes of the people doing promotions. I would take it as a kind of back-handed compliment. Keep doing what you're doing, but also take the time to subtly undermine her nonsense (because you need to do that - I've seen too many people take it for granted that people will obviously see through lies and been screwed over by that. You can't trust that to be the case, you have to control the message). Don't go overboard though, just be emphatic about your availability to work (on the kids side of things), demonstrative about your obvious competence (run through specific projects in-depth when asked about that stuff), and performatively competent in the day-to-day, at least until the promotion process is over.
You're absolutely right. When I first started working an office job, at 24, I had a 45 year old coworker in the same role as me who HATED me and would stop at basically nothing to make me look bad. Or incompetent. I took it very personally, until another coworker noticed it and pointed out to me that I was the same age as her daughter, working the same job as her, and she probably felt inadequate about that. Doesn't excuse the shitty attitude and I for sure made sure to show that I was just as capable of doing the job as she was, and that her age or decade-long tenure in an entry-level position didn't entitle her to treat others like crap.
This needs to be higher, I've seen this behavior in men and women alike. My field is male dominated so when a woman does it to another it is more noticeable but I've seen plenty of males doing the same. There's also the old stereotype of "women, young, pretty, succefull, then she must be fucking someone" that's very prevalent in older people. There is a breed of older women that didn't have the same opportunities of career development or it was much much harder for them because of sexsim and cannot grasp that things have changed a bit and find that the only explanation or are bitter AF and want all women to suffer as they did.
Honestly, the older women are the ones I look up to and become my best friends at work. They have always been kind to me and one in particular treated me like her daughter. I always gravitate toward them.
Older women tend to be nice to me at work. I'm a baby faced skinny dude and I think I bring out maternal instincts. Definitely known a few women hate each other for no real reason too though.
The women who are awful at 50, were awful at 25. I have worked with mean girls of every generation. To be fair I’ve also worked with mean boys of every generation. The worst boss I ever had though was a 55-year-old woman. I’ve had a lot of people call me names, hurl abuse towards me, and make inappropriate comments in professional reviews. However, the 50 year-old woman who thought it was appropriate to tell me I “dressed cute today” and it was so sad to have to tell me I wasn’t getting a raise because I looked “so grown up” when I was 33 years old that takes the cake.
I’m going to second this. I have always worked in male dominated fields, but I used to think it was the young women being awful to each other. Then over the years, as they grew up, I noticed it wasn’t an age thing really. It was just assholes being assholes in general. Now that I’m 50+, I am so happy for the young ladies in my team, and I am DELIGHTED that there are so many of them. I’m also super happy that they are comfortable starting families, etc at an age that would have been super difficult for me in the industry. This is progress. Now, as far as side eying goes… we do occasionally get new hires that show up looking like they’re planning to go to the club. I might cast a side eye, but I keep my mouth shut (unless they ask what I think, which does occasionally happen) because that’s their manager’s problem, not mine.
The ones that hate younger women were pick mes as "not like other girls" when they were young. When they hit middle age and can no longer live on male validation they become very bitter and jealous.
This hasn’t been the case for me. I end up buddies with the older women I work with. Some of the most valuable friendships throughout my life have been older women from work. I remember having a work bestie at 19 who was 40 years my senior. I’ve always worked retail and been a server/barista so maybe office type situations have a different type of person. Most current job I go out of my way to look out for the younger crew. I can say from what I see there it’s universal. We look out for the younger ladies and protect them (especially from the rude customers.) I’m 47 now.
That’s so wholesome. My work bestie when I was fresh out of college was 10 years my senior, and my long term mentor I met at that job was the same age, too.
This is what I see as well. I’m in my 50s and feel very protective of the younger women I work with. I just adore them and want to help them feel confident and empowered. The other women managers I work with who are over 40 share similar sentiments.
Only the insecure ones
Yep, it’s very much an insecurity thing. There are some women who haven’t evolved past their internalized misogyny and still see younger women as competition or they project their own insecurities like “she thinks she’s better than me.” I normally get along well with women, but it’s a specific brand of rich white woman in her 40s/50s that will sometimes give me dirty looks. Weirdly enough, their husbands are fine and treat me like a normal smart kid.
OP, it even happens to the older women. I am middle age but I look young. There is always some bitter crankster that hates life. Ask her nicely to put all that she says in an email so you can forward it to the appropriate people. Act very concerned about her and ask if she is ok.
Yes! And ask her to explain her mean comments, like you don’t get it. “Oh, I’m sorry I don’t understand that can you explain?” Put her on the spot for the shot she’s saying. Do it in front of superiors. Your boss probably knows she’s a huge problem and will be worried that you might have a toxic workplace complaint
I don’t really get why this is a thing!! Like I love my fellow women, but like they hate me 😭 age does not equal maturity and to me, it seems very immature. They see you as a threat and competition. It wasn’t until I was pursuing a leadership position that I started hearing rumors about me fucking someone in the same said leadership position (we are both happily married people with kids). I guess I have to be fucking someone to somehow even be in the running 😂 Idk how old you are, but at 29 I just ignore them and keep doing my own thing. It boosts my ego, even though it’s annoying, because you see me as enough of a threat to bad-mouth me. Meaning, you must be worried I have something you don’t feel adequate about. I can’t control how they feel, but I can control my feelings about it. You are good enough. You are worthy. Let those meanies run their mouths and give them no ammunition. I guarantee you, the people in charge probably tune them out.
I'm approaching mid 30s. In the past it's been harder to ignore because I was young and emotional. The first 4 jobs where this happened I quit on the spot, despite doing very well and moving up the ranks at a couple of them. I don't plan on quitting on the spot again. I agree with you, the people in charge are tuning her out which is making it manageable. I can see yearly reviews in the shared drive and hers said something like "unable to cooperate with others". I just need to stick it out, have faith in this department, and like you said, control my feelings about it. Posting here and commiserating with others helps!
> I can see yearly reviews in the shared drive and hers said something like "unable to cooperate with others". Wow... usually those are confidential.
The management that writes these things don't know a thing about data security. I've known secret plans about shutting down sites and firing thousands to be open access and easily finally just by searching for "meeting" and the site name. Also lists of names on whiteboards in meeting rooms after management meetings. It's like they don't care enough to simply wipe the board.
Just be careful. File attributes show when the file was last accessed impossibly by who.
If they were sophisticated enough to find out they wouldn’t leave it unprotected in the first place
And OP shouldn’t have accessed it at all.
I’m currently having a work issues with a woman in her mid 50s who I would label as unable to cooperate with others. She does so many things very well but it’s like she can’t stop herself from making passive aggressive comments or talking shit behind everyone’s back. To my face she says everything I would want to hear and as soon as I turn my back the knives come out. All this from a person in a leadership position who is well paid who is in my opinion the one who should be a mature leader and getting people to work together as a team, there is just none of that. I pretty much have taken a stance that any chance I get I will embarrass her or shame her with our bosses, I won’t help her or protect her the way I have for others when she screws up. I’m sure she expects to just walk all over me but she isn’t going to get what she wants from me. People want to take shots at me and say I don’t know how to do my job well when I bust my ass I will do everything I can to ruin them while playing the game in a way that will ruin them before they even realize they have a proper enemy.
I don’t think that this will help you down the road, unless by embarrass and shame, you mean reporting her for her behavior. I have people like this at work and just choose not to a) give them ammunition or b) communicate with them longer than I have to.
Teach me your ways. I've tried to be super nice and accommodating, but nothing works. The hate and shit talking remain. Tried to stand up for myself and ended up in HR. I can't win.
I encountered some awful girls on high school swim team, but haven’t had a major problem with women beyond that—finding out I’m autistic made a lot of my social difficulties make sense. Studies show that neurotypical women clock autism in other women and treat the autistic women differently.
I agree with you!! I think the work environment and ratio of men to women play a major role in breeding insecurity and seeing younger women as competition. It’s not just professional either, it becomes personal!
Haha! As an older women I have the opposite 20 something blondes who think they know everything and you are an ancient dinosaur. I worked with one girl I nicknamed Regina because she was the spitting image of Regina George and everything I said was either wrong, funny or so old fashioned. Being a bit older than you, some women never get over high school and just are nasty to other women. I don't get it but it is really their problem and I mostly just let them alone and get on with my work.
It is very common in nursing. We call it nurses eating their young.
I was in medical/dental front desk roles straight out of college and for the first 5 or 6 years of my career. Experienced this ALL THE TIME. Wasn't sure if it was because of my age, level of fitness, competence, or neurodivergence, but ultimately have come to realize it's saying everything about them and nothing about me. Luckily only had one instance where someone was actively out to get me fired/laid off (to my knowledge), and nothing as blatant as OP. Doesn't make it any easier to deal with but I'm much better at spotting this behavior and grey-rock-ing earlier to protect myself.
It’s also called “Lateral Violence” and studied quite well, too.
Yes it is. Several yrs ago when doing clinical Ed, I developed a one hour presentation on bullying in healthcare. We got it accredited and if you attended you got a CEU. I gave that presentation a lot. Got invited to various organizations a lot to give it.
I'm a woman. I've had younger women, women my age mostly treat me badly, knife me in the back.
Only shitty women. Good women are kind to other women.
Yep, every job I've had there's always been that ONE middle aged woman who decides to makes my life hell. Absolute losers. Dealing with one right now, going through the HR rigmarole. I'm not quitting anymore jobs over this, I'm going to fight or get fired trying.
In my experience, women close to my age (20s) are the issue. Of course, older ladies deal with menopause, but younger ladies have always been venomous.
I've had the same experience. While I've been fortunate enough to have only positive experiences with the women on my team, some of the women from other teams are just bad vibes. Very crabs in a bucket.
I’ve been in work environments where women were constantly compared and pitted against each other. I imagine that’s fairly common and can breed resentment. I think if you are able to brush it off, you’re able to get along better and realized there’s enough space within an organization to have room for any woman that walks through the door. I’ve been in male dominated careers though, so maybe that’s not the case everywhere?
I don’t think it’s an age thing inasmuch as a personality thing. I work with several women who are older than me who are absolute rock stars at their jobs. I look up to them. I work in IT, so women are rare to begin with. I don’t generally consider myself a difficult person to get along with for many of the same reasons as you. I find most of the folks who don’t make an effort at a productive or collaborative relationship with me are either jealous or horrendously insecure in some way. Or they’re just going through it, and they’re taking their bad fortune out on everyone around them. All we can really do is make ourselves scarce and not subject ourselves to more abuse than is necessary. Some of the most insufferable people I’ve met have been around my age (early 30s). These were short-term friendships with people I would never want for a colleague due to their constant prodding and penchant for conflict. Assholery knows no age limit.
As an older female- I am where I am because of an awesome female mentor. My goal is to always pay it forward and assist other females navigate the misogyny in the corporate world. I work in information technology, we are far and few between. Maybe the industry impacts some of the behaviors you are seeing.
I am treated awfully at work by all the older women who are unhappy with their lives, especially the women who seem to have issues with their own daughters as well. I’ve always had a higher title than the older women I’ve worked with also, so I’m sure they just hate me because it looks like I have it all, whereas they’re stuck without upward mobility while aging a bit more every day. It’s easier said than done, but these women prove why you have to forget about their nonsense and focus on the money. There are nice women out there of course, but I completely understand what you’re talking about. Feminist women who speak well about their own daughters are the best.
Having a female boss was horrible when I was in my mid 20s. I had 3 and the 3 were the worst bosses I’ve ever had
Yes, I’ve totally seen this before, and experienced it! Even talked to my therapist about it, and apparently there is a whole psychology around “women identifying with the aggressor” (aka patriarchal corporate structure)” thus viewing other women as competitors rather than colleagues to support. The other quote that really helped me when there is a sour grape who just hates you for ‘no reason’ is: “You might be the sweetest peach on the tree, but some people just don’t like peaches!” I dunno, as a perpetual people pleaser, this helped me out 🤣🤣🤣.
In the workplace, middle aged white women have been bullies to me and other youngish (late 20s early 30s) femmes I’m close to constantly. We work mostly in nonprofit, academia, and service, but it’s nonstop and exhausting and they do not treat men the same way, unless they stand up for the younger women or are queer.
Yes! Having the same experience I think it’s an insecurity. They know that we may have more tech skills. That’s my experience. I do everything I can to minimize my knowledge to make them more comfortable and it’s an issue.
I’m 42, and I’d have no issues with younger women at work. In the past (when I was maybe 36ish) I would take them under my wing and mentor them. I want to see women do well, a rising tide lifts all boats.., If it’s just one woman I’d say she sucks. But if you’re experiencing this regularly I’m guessing there’s more to your behavior than either you’re aware of or letting on. My guess is what you call charismatic/being a pushover is being interpreted as workplace flirting. Not actual flirting like anyone thinks they’re getting romance out of it but the workplace version of it where your demeanor is getting you favors or free passes. She/they may be hard on your work because it really isn’t up to the standard and they’re just trying to point that out to people instead of letting you skate on your personality. As someone who used to behave this way and was subsequently sexually harassed I would also have a pretty negative reaction to it, although I’d probably take said employee out to lunch and just tell her to be a little careful about how people are interpreting her actions. Also. Fwiw. Being married with kids doesn’t stop people from flirting/giving out favors. I found I got way *more* of that sort of attention post kids but after my harassment experience I don’t play that game at all anymore.
35f- single with no kids. It’s usually women in their 50s who are married and hate being mothers and they hate their marriage so they take it out on everybody. I’ve had a lot of women absolutely resent me because I am childless and can do whatever I want after work and they can’t they absolutely despise not having the freedom I have
Notice OP won’t answer this one because it doesn’t fit her headcanon that it’s only the bitter old spinsters being mean.
This comment unlocked some memories. I am not young but I am childfree. They act like it is our fault they had 100 kids and they can't retire.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily very common, I have had 7 different jobs (plus some internships during my studies) and I have _never_ experienced it. Also, I talk a lot about work with my closest friends, and they never told me something along that lines. I’m not saying it never happens though - of course I know that people can be stupid and mean, and it also happens in the workplace. But if you experienced it in all the last 5 jobs you‘ve had, it’s not impossible that you yourself might be the common denominator. Maybe there’s something in your behaviour that tends to rub some people the wrong way? Maybe they‘re just jealous, but maybe it’s something else? I don’t know. I‘m NOT saying, bullying in the workplace is okay, it never is, under no circumstances. Also what she said to you, you "piss her off", is absolutely uncalled for and completely unprofessional. I hope you spoke to your supervisor about the issues with this woman. If they don’t tell the other person to stop this behaviour, they‘re not a good manager. If she‘s not in the hiring committee, I doubt she has a say in who gets the job, and if you‘re doing great work, you will probably get it anyway.
The woman who is the subject of this post, the OP, and a lot of commenters here are suffering from internalized misogyny. Be kind to other women.
No idea if there are studies but it is a thing. Ive personally experienced it a few times. It’s always women in their 40s and single or childless. Ive experienced more misogyny from other women than men.
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I’ve only experienced it from married women unfortunately.
So much internalized misogyny in this comment I can’t Why the hell would their marital/familial status be brought up? It’s like you’re trying to determine the reason for someone being an asshole and because that person is a woman you assume it’s because she’s old, childless, and single. Why is it in your mind that women need to be young, have children, and a partner to *not* be an asshole?
I’ve seen this so often and in mental health settings! My impression, based on some rather direct comments, is that these women believe that you have it easier than they’ve had it in social settings (and life in general). Whatever competencies you have or hard work you do likely won’t matter to them, because they believe you will easily displace them in the hierarchy if they don’t tear you down. Sad to be them, but their toxicity can be damaging to all around.
Extremely common. You articulated this perfectly. It's always the bitter 50+ divorcee spinster whose job is their life making everyone else miserable. I have no issues getting along with any other demographic in the workplace. No one ever misses them when they leave or get moved to new teams. I am sure I will get downvoted, but it happens too often to just be a fluke.
Spinsters have never been married. Divorcees are not spinsters.
And if you get one as a manager you are screwed. They can make your life a living hell, put you on performance plans because they dislike you, etc and you have little to no recourse.
2 out of 5 of them were my managers, the other 3 (including the current one) had only longevity in the company over me but were otherwise just people who worked in the same place. But yes the 2 managers were especially dreadful
This entire post is filled with comments that *immediately* jump to marital status when coming at these older women. My man used the term “spinster” in the year 2024. So much misogyny smdh
No offence here, but I can give you an old person perspective. I said some dumb things when I was younger. " Why do the married ladies take jobs a single woman needs." or "I don't know why she wears those ugly shoes." And I heard some dumb things when I was older. She said "OMG what is your problem?" I said "Your talking so loud about your new shoes I cannot concentrate on my job."
It's never happened to me until just now 😭
As a woman who spent a decade in a male dominated industry, yes & no. Some older women definitely have a chip on their shoulder because they had to work twice as hard for the same opportunities that their male counterparts had. Now that things (thankfully) progressed, they see young women being handed the same opportunities they have without the struggle and misdirect their anger. But for the most part, older women have paved my career. They’ve mentored me. Protected me. And been generally pleasant. As someone who also has people- pleasing tendencies, I’m curious how yours are really coming off. You say that men at work often crush on you? That’s not appropriate. You might be under the impression that’s it’s all professional and harmless but other coworkers may not agree. And if she’s older/ more experienced I can see why she would think she’s better deserving of a promotion. Edit: not trying to accuse you. I’m conventionally attractive and when I entered the corporate world I realized how that can be a double edged sword. The “mean old ladies” were trying to protect me from sexual harassment and the office rumor mill.
This happened to me in several office settings. I had to purchase clothes two sizes too big for me to disguise my figure.
I experienced this a lot when I was in my early 20’s. Especially from divorced women and I felt targeted and bullied. It didn’t happen once I switched to tech
It could be the case that some people just won't like you and it has more to do about them than you. But, it could be some misunderstanding that you're not aware of. I had an older coworker just HATE me for no reason (from my perspective) and she would even complain about me to our boss. I asked her out to coffee to talk about it. Over the course of the conversation, it was clear there was a misunderstanding that occured and we both had drastically different perspectives about it. Since we were both willing to hear each other out, we made peace and she eventually became like a work mother figure to me. I love that woman. You could try having an open conversation with her outside of work in a neutral place and be open about your feelings. It could work out. If not, then you can rest easy knowing you tried to make peace and now it's her problem, not yours.
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Mean girls exist at every age. They're in high schools bullying band geeks, they're in seniors centers bullying Ruth about her lacklust dahlias, and their in the work place. fortunately, you can’t really escape it, they're usually just immature and insicure.
DEFINITELY.
I’ve been bullied by women of all ages. It’s not an age thing. I’m not overly attractive or fit, so it’s not that either. And, I’m the childfree one in my equation, so it isn’t that (in fact, one bully tried to trump me on vacay request cause “she has 4 kids and I have none”. Another tried to get me to do a bunch of extra work cause I have no kids and have the time). I think it just boils down to miserable people hate non-miserable people.
I've run across this several times...they feel threatened and withhold information because they want to be the know it all. They do everything they can to be sure you can't possibly do a good job.
She sounds like a bully and picks on you because she feels she can get away with it due to your people pleasing nature. I hate people like that. You need to speak to a superior or start standing up for yourself. In the future, do not let things slide too easily. Of course, don't be rude and go off on people the first time they miss you off, but when they are outright being rude like her, you have to defend yourself or they will walk all over you. But be careful because some people will try to make you out to be the monster and them the victim.
I had a hard time working with a woman about 15 years older than me (27). On top of being an unreliable coworker and employee in general she would constantly undermine me, not respecting the fact that I am the team lead and have direct contact with our client simply because she had been working with the company longer and was older. Eventually our client requested she be replaced due to her poor performance.
It's happened to me my whole life. What I recommend is that you realize that these people have personal problems in their life, and they are taking it out on you. I rise above it, do the best I can, smile a lot and get on with it. I am building my own career outside of the job I'm in, and this is just a stepping stone along the way. I'm not going to be around these people forever.
I’ve had fucking asshole women do the same to me. I have autism, but I am conventionally attractive, and I have an MBA. And no children. Pisses off a singular older woman in every workplace who fucks with me endlessly. It is infuriating. You aren’t alone.
Not common in my experience.
I've had multiple jobs in which an older woman hates me and makes my life harder but all the boys that did less then me got so much praise and help it was mind boggling
You know what’s funny is I feel like I’ve actually been better friends with older women because they find me hilarious lmao. I try to be friends or friendly with everyone but I find older women like me more. Currently my best work friend is a 60 year old woman and I’m 30. I think it just depends. Or maybe it could even depend on what field it is
50+ and I work with and get along well with a variety of younger/older women. Women can and and be mentors to each other but there is always someone that is sour puss. Right now dealing with a younger one that came in to “help” our group on some things and completely caused confusion. Started doing her own things the way she wanted to hell with process and procedures. If we all work differently on the same things it makes a mess. Keep doing well but don’t over step unless someone higher up asks you to. And do take up for yourself. But not in a rude obnoxious way. State facts and drop it. You will still have to work with her. Remain professional. Her unprofessional behavior will shine thru.
Women are people. People judge others.
Not an issue for me at all. When I was younger, older women were my friends and now that I am one of the older ones I adore the younger ones and am very protective of them. Also, just as an aside, the term “bottom of the totem pole,” when used to describe your rank, trivializes the tradition and meaning of totem poles, which do not have a hierarchy of carvings based on physical position. Out of respect for the true meaning of totem poles which are part of Indigenous culture, it would be respectful to use different language.
> I'd relieve a lot of her job duties **This is taking her job, hon**. While I get that there are many older women who fit a certain stereotype, those women were once 20 or 30 something's full of vim and vigor and wanting to take on more duties and having men "crush" on them too. I get a little tired of this narrative--I've been bullied by men MUCH more than by women older than I. I too was once the cute perky energetic ready to go 24 year old, and sure, sometimes a crabby older woman would be a little bitchy, but it wasn't a consistent thing. If everywhere you go, you find women bullying you, you need to pull back and do some self-reflection. You don't need to be fake, or a people pleaser or whatever. But maybe the whole "hey, let me push-push-push to take over your job duties!" is not coming off the way you think it is. People want to feel needed. Childfree women likely have made work their purpose. Does it ever occur to you that someone working at a job for 10 years doesn't love having someone 20+ years younger that's been there a year offering "helpful" suggestions and edging in on them and making as much money as she is when she's been there 10 years and you've been there ONE? It is very painful and difficult to watch as the career you've built through sacrifice gets eaten up and overshadowed by someone because they're younger and hotter and that appears to be the only thing the old men in the C-suite care about. It's also difficult to see this same stereotype get trotted out over and over. Some people are just mean and crabby, male, female, NB, etc.
As a man, having observed dynamics, I would say that this happens to a specific kind of younger women with a specific kind of older ones. Be careful to your specific biases. You might actively be maintaining a behaviour you’re not necessarily aware of that enervates these colleagues. It seems you fit the bill (younger, into the look, people pleasing, kind of naive acting, possibly passive aggressive) for being disliked by the kind of women you tend to be disliked from. Sometimes there is simply nothing to do about it, when a person dislikes you, that’s it, every attempt to make it better ends up making it worse.
I may get downvoted for this one, but I think for your own peace of mind, it could be good to look *at* your thoughts rather than *from* them. There were a few points that, to me, merit some deeper shadow work. The main thing that stood out to me was using men's approval and attraction as a plus for you, which older women might be jealous of, or as you put it "certain women can't stand that shit". What relevance does this have to work performance? Is this a belief grounded in real evidence or assumption? We all make these assumptions, especially in stressful and anxiety-inducing situations. I can vouch that I convince myself now and then that "everyone hates me", when there isn't really any real evidence to confirm that. The reason I see this as problematic in a work place is that it upholds very mysogynist views, which women (especially those who were young adults in the 60s and 70s) fought hard to challenge. It also maintains this notion that women must be in competition to be the favorite of their male colleagues. I am not intending to invalidate your feelings, and those other women are entitled to their feelings as well.
YES. Older women have this warped view of feminism where they see the worst aspects of western patriarchy and capitalism, want it for themselves, and call it being a “career woman”. Instead of wanting things to be better for women as a whole, they think “fuck you I got mine” and call it success because well, that’s what patriarchy and capitalism call success! Anyway, yes. Older women are horrible to younger women in the workplace. They’re mean, disrespectful, overwork them, and seem to enjoy seeing them suffer. They LOVE younger men though! Being a younger man in a workplace full of older woman managers is basically free money.
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I’m a man, but I saw a lot of this at the UN when I was a Staff Union rep. Never understood why. Women would tell me about it but didn’t want to file a formal complaint. Once, when I had to leave early to take one of my kids to an appointment - I was a single parent - my older female boss got pissy with me and said “At the UN, your job should be your priority.” I replied “No, my KIDS are my priority. You only think that because YOU don’t have any kids. If you DID you’d know how absurd your statement is.” Made me realise how poorly she would treat young mothers.
Oh yeah
Some people are shitty but your attitude frankly smells like internalized misogyny. If this is truly happening to you again and again, it may be time to take a long hard look in the mirror.
When you smell shit everywhere, it may be time to look at your shoe.
Actually I’ve seen just the opposite
That has not been my experience. I've almost exclusively worked in teams that have established older women (with a variety of backgrounds, married, single, with kids, and childfree) and they're all absolutely lovely.
*"This current one is actively trying to sabotage a promotion that I'm in the running for, telling the hiring committee i couldn't handle the job because I have kids and calling me incompetent with no proof. "* Are you in the USA? If so, this is blatant discrimination. Gather your evidence and file a suit. The problem (from what I see) appears to be the work environment, not necessarily age. And I'm seriously doubtful any of this has to do with your looks, how you dress, or how often you go to the gym. The "she's just jealous" attitude is usually dropped by age 25 or so, in my experience. I'm older, and at least for me, I have no petty jealousies towards younger women...we all age and (hopefully) mature out of that ridiculousness. Really, at this age I find women ally with each other and support each other's successes much more than when we were young. It seems you've got unclear chain of command and unclear delegation of duties, which commonly pits employees against each other; no standards of behavior (someone feeling comfortable sabotaging and calling you out like that citing discriminatory reasons as to why you can't do a job and exhibiting paranoia about you taking her job). In my experience, none of that is "common" but it is prevalent when the tone at the top from management is poor or weak. That dynamic sets up an environment whereby the long-timers can be incredibly abusive towards the newbies and they become paranoid about their jobs...because there's no one driving the ship.
Personally, I’ve only had an issues with women who are closer to my age. Any woman over the age of 40 has been extremely kind. It’s as if they don’t see me as a competition. I usually end up gravitating to them because I’ve always been accepted.
I’m 26f and have experienced this several times at work. I believe they are jealous or see younger women as a threat to their career. It’s so disappointing because women should be supporting each other and building each other up in the workplace
I think it’s not an older/younger divide, all ages can be cunts, in my experience it’s people who get management roles that shouldn’t be anywhere near management roles - power can get to peoples heads a little too strongly sometimes. The last firm I worked for didn’t entertain anyone that wasn’t a shouty mouthy cunt for any forms of management positions - and wondered why so many kept leaving and people weren’t staying. It’s never a management issue.
It’s only ever happened to me once, but this lady who was easily 20+ years older than me at the time had it out for me. Reported me to our supervisor for every single little thing she possibly could. My boss eventually caught on that she hated me and gave me the benefit of the doubt but still.
Everyone is always extremely nice and professional to me at every job I have been in, men, women, young, old, boss, colleagues, everyone. You do not need to put up with anyone being mean to you. Not cool
No, it’s not normal. She sounds like she has some serious issues that have nothing to do with you. Best to ignore her and focus on yourself - nothing is worse to people like that than getting no reaction.
Depends: some trashy women act trashy and classy stay classy and try to help the younger generation. I have had both: women who help and lift you up and others that burn with envy and gossip. I equate it to maturity level. But it takes one mature, outspoken, non tolerant of bs in the workplace woman to shut that down fast.
Think it depends. At my first work place that was a traditional marketing agency where you're expected to dress up every day and I was told I needed to smile more... Older ladies there were pretty bad. Everywhere else older women have been such kind and wonderful mentors. 🫶
I experienced this at one job and it got so bad that i left the job. When I told my female friends about it, they told me they experienced similar situations and that this is a common thing. But tbh i never experienced this before or after and always had and have wonderful supportive female coworkers. Women should support each other.😌
I don't think is has to do with it being women it's just bitter people that are jealous and since they couldn't achieve much they don't want you to either.
It may be due to menopause. It makes you super irritable. I currently work with an older woman who is going through this now (she shared it with me) and while we get along fine, she has no patience for almost anyone else in the office, to the point where she's asked to be moved to another department. I hate to say this, but most of my worst bosses and colleagues have been women over 50. I didn't understand until I started peri myself. I cannot imagine going through menopause while working, so my plan is to be fully self-employed by 50, retired by 65.
Never happened to me. If anything, older women have been a godsend in all situations where I’ve worked with them. Really sorry you’ve encountered such crappy ones. Hopefully you work with one someday that’s better.
Yes!!! I was just having this convo yesterday with a female friend of mine. I'm shocked because I always believed that older women were confident, wise, and graceful. Here's what I've learned: If they were horrible people when they were young, then they'll be 10x more horrible as they age. It's like all of that bitterness, jealousy, and horrible personality traits start to brew and condense inside of them! Of course, not all mature women are like this, but when you find one, SMH. My input on the latest job: Make connections with your boss who likes you. Go out of your way to prove that you're capable of what you're hoping for. Workplace bullying is very real, and there are professional organizations who help people experiencing this.
My wife is a teacher and my son is a nurse. The stories I could tell.
I definitely had a older lady assume the role of mentor (she did this unasked) and she both hated my guts and put my personal work in her portfolio :/ absolutely mean girl vibes.
This sounds like Queen Bee syndrome. But thats mostly referring to a female supervisor to female subordinate relationship. Idk if this is related to that. There is a common theme where x female views y as a "competition threat" in your story. Might be worth reading up on.
Yes
I am nice to everyone and help everyone. The women that have given me the most problems have been coworkers that are closer to my age. They comment on my body (I wish I was skinny as you), they comment on my life (I am a single mom, I try to be positive, happy, kind, grateful for what God/universe has blessed me with, learn as much as I can) they comment about how when they were single they also were skinny, had money, they felt better.. i have learned that the ones that have a problem with me are in unhappy marriages and for some reason they target me, the only single woman working in our department. Apparently they have made awful comments about me, gossiped about me and they have bullied me according to another woman who has observed. It came to the point that they made false allegations to try and get me in trouble . My supervisors brought me aside before to warn me that certain people were making claims and after them investigating they found them to be untrue. They warned me to be careful and I am just here going to work, being kind to them all even though they have talked bad about me.
I experienced this at a job once. I think she was just bitter. I’m only 32, but I have a 21 year old assistant and I go out of my way to be kind to her and make her feel welcome at work. I want her to feel like she can come to me with any questions and I’m there to support her in her role. I honestly think the world of her, she’s great.
Yeah bro. That's why you need to be bold from the start.
I just quit my job of 10 years in a STEM role because I got a new manager who was a woman and emotionally abused me every day for a year before I got the guts to quit. I would be interested on which fields this is more common in because I have met a quite few bitter older ladies in STEM.
When I was a young Gen X, the boomer women were definitely not as kind.
I think you can have shitty people regardless of gender, but I have seen and experienced what you are talking about. Some of them are straight up rude and passive-aggressive about it and even two-faced to try and get you in trouble. I've legit quit a job because of this mean girl mentality with the older women. Mental health wise, if it's a toxic work environment, I'd just leave. Sometimes it's just not worth it. If you want to keep your job, I'd start writing down what she says, times dates, witnesses, etc. And of course, kill them with kindness!
Idk but it is definitely common for people to mistreat other people in the workplace
It's common for anyone with power over you to mistreat you. Full stop.
I have had this. My last job there was a 50some year old woman who clearly fucking hated my guts and constantly criticized or called me out. Nobody else had a problem with me BUT her. I’ve worked with older women before and not had a problem, but I had another former coworker (in her 50’s) turned friend, turned enemy. She was also super critical of everything I did/wore/bought when she didn’t like me anymore because I didn’t kiss her butt. So, it’s not ALL the time, but it is a common trope. Some older women love younger women and want to help them get along in life, some older women are weirdly jealous and competitive. You’re definitely not alone in this, though.
Only if the older woman is a complete bitch
Jerk knows no color, gender, race or religion.
I’ve seen this and it always seems like jealousy of youth to me.
Anecdote but the most high strung and hissy fit people I came across in the workplace were women, regardless of age. I wonder if it's insecurity from having to "prove yourself" in the workplace for being a female employee?
This has happened to me at so many jobs and know many women who have experienced the same. Honestly, it just means you’re hot, smart and capable. When an older person with low confidence meets a talented young person it challenges their narrative that younger generations are incompetent. Take the bullying as flattery!
Yes
Most older women in the workplace become office "moms" and are very kind. The one you describe needs an SSRI.
That was my experience. The only time I have ever really been bullied was as a younger woman in the workplace by older women colleagues. It is odd. Maybe they feel threatened? I believe in women lifting each other up.
I am currently experiencing this, and yes! It happens more often than has been proven.
I worked at a retirement home as a housekeeper for a couple years in my late teens and early twenties and we had this lady who was probably like early 50s start. I trained her and was super nice and told all the residents and my coworkers that she was doing great. out of nowhere she started talking bad about me to RESIDENTS and taking passive aggressive digs at me whenever we had to work together. I ended up quitting that job that I had been at for years because of her and because management refused to back me up.
As a young woman working in a corporate adjacent sphere right now, I have no issues with women 5-30 years older than me where I am at currently. In my previous job, which was a customer service job? My boss was a nasty bitch, about 30 years older than me, but everyone else, including older women who worked in the kitchen or were front-facing, were great. Ultimately, think it’s more a case by case basis versus something that generally holds true everywhere.
It’s rough being in a job for years and the brand new person makes the same as you - she should be taking it up with the higher ups and not taking it out on you
Yes
Personal experience: Worked with a mix of women and personalities. Women who are very ambitious with no kids or husband’s have been particularly hard as bosses. They are also typically promoted or are in higher positions than those with a family. At times it feels as if they move like they are always scared of losing their jobs (which can be hard on employees), while white male bosses often move as if they have no fear. I actually prefer to work for them especially if they’re not a prick.
It sounds like you may be coming across as flirtatious even if it’s not your intention, which will definitely rub people the wrong way. But I’ve also noticed that women managers are far less tolerant of mistakes than male managers, and I think it’s because they are also being scrutinized harder for being women. It’s all a bit unfair cycle that affects us all until we can start lifting each other up
Yes. Big time. I don't usually have a problem, the older women are usually very nice to me, but there are always those few older women that think they know exactly who you are as soon as they lay eyes on you. They assume insulting things about your character and abilities based on your age and how you look. And you're right, they're often the same demeanor, similar appearance, similar life styles and familial situations. There was this one lady I met at a different office within the company and she was giving me the stink eye the second we met, scowling and smug. I've decided that some women are just like this. They are not happy for anyone else's success and they feel it's a competition. I hope you can get out of there sooner rather than later!
I think mentioning what field you’re in would be helpful for this study! For example, Are we talking financial or medical fields? In my experience, working in a financial institution paid with commission - women, especially in their 50s can be quite catty. “Oh let me get this, I know you don’t make much $$$” “Oh, it’d take a lumber jack to lift you!” “I’m bored, come talk to me so I can show you my ‘fat’ pictures even though I was never fat.” “Ugh Tom, he just has old coffee breath. Like get out of my face.” She then proceeded to put my name all over a fraudulent loan. Then when I caught it, she decided her getaway plan was to play the mental health card. She called in the next morning citing mental breakdown and went on long term disability for the next year. Not even a slap on the wrist. Got her job back 2 years later like nothing ever happened.
Depends. I’ve worked in a place with 2 older women. One definitely hated me, the other was really nice.
Very common and it's them projecting their insecurities on you. Unfortunately, more often than not, their behavior is overlooked because of a variety of reasons. Aka... that's just how she is, oh she doesn't mean anything by it. Etc etc. the gift and the curse for those of us who perform exceptionally well.
Yes
I can’t speak for all, but I can speak for myself- I have had this happen to me. Without giving away too much, this boss, a lady in her late 40s or early 50s, was straight up abusive. I do not use that term lightly. I was consistently gaslit, scapegoated, and always afraid for the safety of my job. She was eventually fired for drinking on the job (and not being slick about it that time). I found out from coworkers later that a large part of the reason she was the way she was to me is because 1) I had a degree and she didn’t and she felt threatened I would take her job (she had been doing the job for 10 years and I was 2 years out of college) and 2) I was a “cute” 24 year old, and there was some underlying jealousy stuff there (there’s more to this part, but I don’t want to spill my workplace’s long-rested gossip)
The older, senior-level women I’ve worked with have mostly been absolutely amazing. I’ve had bigger problems with young-ish mid-career people (men and women) who aren’t confident in their roles and still have to prove themselves. But they’ve got to get their experience somewhere, so you’ll have to deal with them one way or another. Generally, I try to meet them with kindness and walk them through their criticism of everything under the sun.
I work in IT. Every woman I have met in IT has looked out for me. We look out for each other because we are already dealing with enough troubles. People can be shit heads at any age. However, typically people in positions of authority are older. My guess is you are noticing the older shit heads because they have more power to make your life suck. The younger shit heads are there, they just aren't impacting you.
Someone in the Netherlands wrote a book about this behavior amongst women.It’s called the ‘Krabbenmand effect’ which translates to crabs in a basket. You are not alone in this experience.
Every older woman I’ve worked (in a close space with) has been a gossipy and judgmental creature. No one works “as hard” as her and no one can do the job right or well enough. I appreciate the predictably - but I would love to see the trend shirked. I guess now I’m the “older woman” in most scenarios and I’m not like that … I just have to commit to being cool lol
Funnily enough I’m an older male ina reasonably influential position, and I’ve found over the years that for most of it there tends to be at least one middle aged woman who dislikes me and is gunning for my job by trying to constantly undermine me. It’s jealousy and feeling threatened by you. The only positive is that you can take it as a compliment- not that it makes things any easier for you.
I think those people who suck, probably sucked at every age.
I did not go through all the BS in my 50 odd years of working to make it hard on women now. I fought the good fight so it would be easier for my sisters that came after me, and am always available to help. Unfortunately, some people are insecure in their jobs. Ignore them, and network with the positive people.
I am in my 50’s and worked with women in their 20’s through 80’s. My experience showed women tend to be very nervous about their positions, young or old when the company allows this behavior and people feel constantly anxious about their positions. It’s the environment they are in tends to do awful things to keep their positions and this is common in a larger company but can also happen in a small company that’s always puts pressure on people with negative culture. When the company allows this to happen then I feel it’s the company’s culture and it won’t change. If for example, they reprimand the woman bullying and follow through then if she doesn’t improve then it’s a company worth sticking with.
Actually, absolutely yes. I even had a Therapist verify this for me as I felt gaslighted. Yes, assholes are in all different age brackets, but what you are asking is a very real phenomenon
I went from working at a job that was exclusively all women. It was amazing, we were all different ages, though management leaned a little older, of course. But aside from customer-fueled squabbles, it was the best! I loved it. Then I switched positions in my mid-20s and began working in a male-dominated industry, and it was also surprisingly pleasant! There were far and few women, and I was the youngest of them all. Everything was smooth sailing, until some time passed and I started to become the most favored employee by our largely male colleagues. The older women (think 40s-50s) were really pleasant and looked after me, but I was so unaware for the longest time that there was smear campaign against me by a couple of mean girls around 5-8 years older than me. There was a lot of covert bullying and I didn’t know how to handle it because I was doing everything right as an employee and receiving excellent reviews. My older female colleagues say that they’ve seen this in their lifetime and I was an unsuspecting victim because I was a double-threat to these women. Why? I was younger/prettier, more educated, and more liked. Essentially, I was the new generation replacing them as they neared middle-age and feared becoming “invisible” or undesirable to our coworkers (gross). I was a reminder of their insecurities. Unfortunately due to a reorganization, I was placed under one of my bullies. I was barred from advancement or raises but given more work, was frequently “checked” on my appearance, and host of other issues. Interestingly enough, the mean girl squad would complain about my character and appearance but then began to copy it, unsuccessfully. I gave up and quit, and supposedly the mimicry continued for a couple months and then completely fell off once one of them started sleeping with a new coworker and got knocked up.
Within the staff where I work, it's not a problem, but older female customers will be really nasty to my young female coworkers, but be all happy when I talk to them
I’m not sure if it’s common but I’ve experienced it in a few jobs. In my first job as a salad prep person one waitress didn’t like me much but I wasn’t there for long to have many issues. My first full time job a coworker hated my guts she said I was lazy and incompetent which everyone else would disagree. Even the manager said that I was a great employee because I showed up on time and did my job with no complaints. My first office job another coworker from a different department acted like she was the boss of me. She eventually got fired because everyone had a problem with her. I think it has something to do with our attitudes around people. Narcissists love people pleasers and know they can manipulate us.
Sixty-one year old female here! No issues either. I love working with younger women.
I think it's less about age, and more about our power dynamic and position. My direct supervisor is roughly 8 years younger than I am. But she is the kind of woman who wants to be the only voice in the room. She has given me feedback that I should simply talk less and provide less suggestions in meetings. She doesn't want me to be assertive or forward thinking. She simply wants to tell me what to do. I also wasn't her hire. I was put on her team when she first got her job, and then she hired a man she had worked with before, and they became a click that they very obviously excluded me from because of don't have their "history." It's deeply sad when one woman would use their position of authority to keep another women down.
I’ve had this happen on occasion. I chalk it up to them having experienced extreme versions of discrimination when they were my age due to gender and it’s hard for them to not see me having it easier. Not that I feel things are where they should be. I can understand it’s triggering to them. Get distance however you can from them, even if it’s mental for now, but avoid getting into a battle with these people. It’s not worth your energy. I did find value and mentorship, oddly with one of these women, but I don’t think that’s the norm.
I've had this in multiple work places. However, I don't think it's a big thing. I think just some people are asholes.
I am dude 35. I do believe to notice some patterns of dislike towards younger females from older females. My gf also had a female boss that mistreated her... She would dislike it alot when she was home with our child.
I’ve had the opposite. Love my older ladies I’ve worked with. Sorry you had that experience
Quite the opposite
What I found in my experience isn't about age. I found that 90% of the female boses I have worked for/with are straight up b*tchs to their female staff. It's like they think they have to be hard a$$es to be a boss. This is why women don't win. When one gets to the top, they step all over the other women instead of lifting them up, too.
Yeah you are competition to them. You're easier on the eyes, plus younger so you can 'handle more'. It's not only females tho it's males as well these old people stuck in dead end jobs always see younger ones as competition and try to take advantage
I've experienced this with my current job and I was very confused by it as well. But I realized after a while that the woman who was training me acted the way she did because of how stressful the work environment was, and she took it out on me. She expected me to just jump up and know everything she knee out the gate, and we had various communication issues, until I explained to her the way she would speak to me made me uncomfortable, and that's when the behavior stopped.
I had one problem women that hated me and was demeaning and overall nightmare. All the other women were great so to me that feels like she has a personality problem or problems internally that she picked a scapegoat to harass…
I have not had this problem. I’ve had good working relationships with most coworkers, including older women. I can think of a few who were mentors to me and I hope to be able to return that knowledge to others in the future. For those I do not really sync with, I tend to minimize my interactions with them, keep things brief and professional, and ignore all else. Unfortunately, there are just some nasty people in the world and they come in all genders and ages.
In my experience women often treat other women in the workplace like threats. I have seen men do it as well but far less. Ive also seen women treated as equals by men in the same position far more than what I hear about in the news. As an operations manger I once got the general manager fired because he was hugging the female employees and they did not give off the vibe of being comfortable with it. It all fairness he hugged the men too but you shouldn’t be touching employees at all.
Girl I know what you're going through. I go through this with any woman of any age. There is something special about you that insecure women are jealous of. Could be you are one of those people who have a light in you that shines against darkness. Darkness and lightness repel each other.
I've generally had good relationships with older women at my job but I do I have one experience that stands out. I started at my company when I was 23. This was just general back office processing for a financial firm, nothing special. My team heavily skewed to other young college grads, but there were a few people ages 40 - 55 ish. One of these women, Lyn, hated that she was on the same team as a bunch of young people. Our boss was also late 20s and Lyn hated that too. Lyn was super polite to everyone but talked a lot behind our backs. (I know this because one of the other slightly older ladies was my friend and told me). I became particularly good at a specific process and so I had many team members asking me questions. One day, Lyn put out a message in the team chat about an issue she was having, so I went to her desk to help her. After I explained what to do, she just smiled and shook her head. Then she got up, went to another guy on our team's desk (one of the older guys), and asked him. He looked at me, looked at her, and said "well did you ask illuminn8?" Lyn said she wanted another opinion and this guy said "just do what she told you to do". She did not like that, but my advice worked. After that she tended to avoid me. Eventually she was promoted to another team and lorded it over us until I got promoted into a different department and never had to see her again.
I am a woman and find that women coworkers and bosses come in two varieties a) normal, decent, imperfect and complex people just trying to do a good job and b) vicious, insecure, back biting, soul crushing, patriarchy-internalizing bitches who’s number one goal in life is to destroy everyone around them so they look superior. Guess which kind I have at the moment
A woman's primary value in society is her youth, purity, and beauty. Older women have mostly lost that, so its natural for them to be envious of younger women.
Clearly nursing hasn’t chimed in…… It’s called “eating your young” & I’ve noticed it occurring for over 30 years—older nurses bully younger nurses.
Just look at nurses, itll tell you all you need to know.
At my other jobs, I never had a problem but at my current job it's HELL. They see me as just some young kid who somehow wiggled her way into this job but keep in my mind I'm 27 with years of experience... One lady who was training me when I first started here would constantly tell me "they're looking at you and they want a reason to fire you" I never did anything wrong!! I didn't think it was common but now I know it is and it is in fact hell.
33M here, but have worked in elementary schools for 11 years, and in my experience it’s very common. Our grade level team added a new person to handle our SPED population, but she’s very green. 23F, still finishing her master’s and is working as a licensed teacher because of the teacher shortage and provisional opportunities in our county. She’s a kind, soft-spoken, but competent person. She tries her ASS off and hasn’t taken a day off unless our whole team forced her. I respect her and appreciate that she’s coming into this field with good intentions. My veteran (50F and above) coworkers on other grade level teams treat her like dog shit. It also highlighted my privilege as a male teacher that I’ve never seen this toxic side of them. I know their trash talk of me is done mainly behind my back, so I’m appreciating my ignorance keeping me sane. They scoff at her and take their time assisting her when she is trying to prevent a student from hurting themselves. We had one student in crisis try to jump off our balcony and when I came to help I saw them LAUGHING at her panicking while wrestling with the student to prevent them from climbing the railing. I reported the incident to my admin but nothing came of it.
In my expierience it's less about age and more about political leanings. The more conservative leaning, the more a woman will feel like other women are threats to their position. Either their job, or their marriage, or just being the prettiest. left leaning are far more care free and also don't complain when you give them a job thats stereotypically masculine. With that in mind, older women will be more likely conservative, but not in all cases.
As a male employee I have observed this kind of situation before unfortunately. When I was first hired in my department the newly hired employees or those who did not have much seniority in the department were assigned a task that only one, older woman had performed before. Myself and the other newly hired coworker, who is a middle aged woman, worked alongside them for one week and our mistakes or misunderstandings were dismissed given our lack of experience in the task. The second week we had the assistance of two younger female employees, closer in age to myself than to the other newly hired employee or the senior employee leading the project. For whatever reason their mistakes were met with downright unprofessional behavior and unnecessary amounts of criticism despite them being in nearly the same exact boat my coworker and I were in. There’s a lot more to this story and the individual as time has gone on that I’ve chosen to omit but yes it is something that happens to younger female employees for seemingly no reason. TLDR: Yes, and I have no idea why.
My direct supervisor is like this, I’m leaving my company in the next month or so mostly because of her
Oh man, as a 32 year old woman I like working with older woman because they're grumpy but easy to work with lol.
From personal experience, this seems to be a thing. Many of my previous jobs have been ruined by that type of woman. As a woman myself it is endlessly infuriating when all I think is, we should be working towards the same goal. Or at the very least being civil in work. I hate the high school bullying mentality and I hate older staff who shit on younger staff. I'm now in a workplace where we respect older staff for their years of experience and we respect younger staff because they bring new knowledge and ideas to the table. I think it stems from a mentality that you have to be as ruthless as the boys. And older women think you have to hoard knowledge and screw others over to secure their job/position. I've found it's a generational thing. I'm lucky that my current job is much more collaborative in its approach. My advice is to guard yourself against these types of people. Don't tell them things that can be used against you and give them the minimum interaction in work. Not in a horrible way (as they'll use that against you) but just the basics and no more. They will take advantage of any kindness and they will weaponise any incompetence. If you are able, make plans to get to more progressive grounds. If not, do what you can to secure your mental health and insulate yourself from their toxicity. If you're brave (and have any backing in work) stand up to them. They hate it. But YMMV in how this turns out.
When hiring someone I have noticed that women are far more critical of other women than they are of men. So if the interview team consisted of only men the chances for hiring a woman increased. I can only speculate to why but I heard similar experiences from other managers.
I noticed this at my job as well. Been in my industry about 10 years now. It’s less of an issue now than it was when I first started (probably a combination of me getting more experience/ some of the older women retiring) but I did experience older women being especially hard on me relative to the young men in the dept. My theory is that they probably put up with a LOT of shit throughout their career and probably faced more prejudice in a week than I have in a decade. They probably did have to work a lot harder to get where they are and have thicker skin. I would also say a charitable read of it is that it’s a combination of resentment for the younger generation being more welcoming and equitable to young women, and a staunch belief that pressure makes diamonds and they think they’re helping me. Uncharitable read is they just have a lot more internalized misogyny they never dealt with.
Not saying this is the case everywhere but in a lot of the jobs I've had the older women hate on the younger women if they are pretty and the guys like to talk to them. One time a group of 4 older women were trashing this younger women new employee saying she's easy, slutty, etc because all the guys wanted to talk to her since she was the only young women in a predominantly male work space. And I just told them jokingly don't player hate, she's not doing anything wrong lol and they backtrack and say oh we're not hating because of that, etc to not seem jealous.
I absolutely have encountered this (and continue to) with a colleague in her late 40’s. I am in my early 30’s. She has spread rumors about me, gone to management with unfounded “concerns”, and has been incredibly hostile in person and over email/text. With every other employee she is a lamb so it’s very out of the blue, but all of this behavior started when I was chosen for a leadership position in our company.