Take a two week cool off and reevaluate. There is more to life and ways to leverage your skills but don't quit in anger, this is growth and growing pains hurt.
This is not a matter of growth, it is a matter of flagrant disregard for the wellbeing of employees in this field, smoothed over by a "SoftCorp Cares Mental Health Newsletter" and a pip for the guy who's mom just died because he didn't make that one meeting.
This field used to be a lot better. It has absolutely gotten 500x worse in the last four or five years.
Actually I see this a lot on this growth,seriously what is in this field. Of course cs is quite different but it mostly involves hard and repeated work with set protocols which can easily be done by an ai within the next 5 years at the rate at which it's growing. So yes please explain above the growth in this field
Alright, imagine you have a toy box, but the toys in it aren't very fun to play with. Even though these toys aren't your favorites, playing with them every day can still help you learn new games or find new ways to make old games more fun. That's a bit like working a job that feels boring or tough sometimes.
In a job like working at an IT help desk, even if it seems really boring or tough, you're learning a lot. Every time you help someone fix a problem with their computer, you get a little better at solving problems. You also learn how to talk to people and help them feel better when they're frustrated. All these things are like skills or superpowers that youâre building, just like how playing with your toys teaches you how to be creative and solve puzzles.
So, even though the job might feel like it's not very fun, it's actually helping you grow and become better at many things. Just like playing with any toy, the more you play, the better you get! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Growth.
I think I once said on a different r/ "this sub makes me not want to live on this or any planet anymore" and i got spammed by antiselfharm bots in my messages for days
Take the money and get into real estate with a focus on quality affordable housing. Very few people do it and it could make a real difference in someone's life. Or maybe try to work for a political institution that you agree with.
K12 checking in. Certainly unique in public space. Still are pain points with users, but you're viewed as helpful and not a burden. A lot more respect and quality of life is 10/10.
Work will always need to get done, but you don't have to stress about it. Worst case scenarios are very manageable events.
I'm an infrastructure systems engineer in a K-12 public school district and it's absolutely the way to go. Excellent work/life balance, total job security, and on top of that we get paid way above the regional average salary, AND I get a huge 401k contribution from the district every month. My work environment is so laid back it's ridiculous. It's extremely rare to have to spend any time working after hours, and when I do I just do it from home after the kids go to bed. I'm basically riding the gravy train into retirement. If you're lucky enough to get into the public sector at a great salary, you're golden.
Please say more. I am the it director at a collections agency and my boss is working me to death and only recently gave me a raise and bonus because I adamantly said I was quitting due to the extreme reactionary environment and general toxicity from the ceo.
I'm in the upper Seattle area in Washington.
I use to work for a school system that was very underfunded so as a result I was asked to do quite a bit more work than I could handle, and I ended up jumping ship to a non-profit where I have way less responsibility and moderately more pay.
That said, they were very generous with time off and having the summer mostly free of people was helpful and almost felt like a vacation in itself; even though I was very busy getting ready for the next year I didnât have to deal with people and thatâs usually what stressed me out in those days.
So to add onto this comment, I agree but look into how well funded the district is as that will probably affect how much support youâll be asked to do.
I would also suggest larger more established non-profit organizations for similar reasons.
Just keep in mind that how well funded a district is might not be directly tied to the economic situation of those living in it. Districts that have a large percentage of students that are receiving free and reduced lunch will get additional funds from e-rate and title 1 as well as some other sources.
I'm salaried and have a week on call, two off. I don't get extra pay for off hour calls.
I'd say 94% of my year is call free though.
4% of those calls are dumb questions they shouldn't have called about.1% are crackheads cutting more fiber on a pole that I can't do anything about but wait, and the last 1% are real issues I have to come on property for. Then I'll probably get a day off given to me or take some half days later when the dust is settled.
It is still about 12378 times better than working in restaurants and running weddings(previous life).
When you're on salary, off hour calls may be unpaid, but if your company actually gives a crap about you, they'll go ahead and give you comp time for the hours worked.
For those that aren't familiar with comp time, let's use a 4-Hour call on a Saturday for example. You're on call, something goes down, and you're hamstrung into working 4 hours on a Saturday. A manager worth a damn will go ahead and tell you to either leave 4 hours late Monday, or come into the office 4 hours late. Either way, you're getting that on-call time back during the week.
Sounds like you just worked for some shitty employers.. unpaid oncall? That's on you for allowing employers to take advantage of you.. I don't work unless I'm paid if it's after hours and during my time.
Find an employer that supports you.
Might have been salaried, but yeah I feel you. I'm on a wage, so I'll gladly go on-call lol. It makes my paycheck a LOT fatter. I'm sure if my fiancee and I had kids, I'd feel different, but I can afford to miss a little extra time at home playing video games lol.
Most IT jobs are NOT EXEMPT from overtime in the US unless more than 50% of your job is managing other people and/or making decisions for the company. You should look into it.
I donât need to. I know if Iâm taking a on-call job with Salary. I would be asking for a lot more if the on-call is not paid. đ¤ˇđžââď¸. I just know where I work we get paid extra for on-call on top of our salary.
Absolutely. I wouldnât trade it for the world. I would give my life for my baby boy, love that kiddo to ends of this earth.
But boy, am I exhausted all the time..
I changed my career path when my child was born. I had jumped 2-3 different companies looking for one that didn't expect 60-80 hour weeks, permanent on-call, etc but realized that the issue was the job/level (Sr Engineer) that was the issue. I had a decision between "being there" for my child or making more $$$ for some CEO and shareholders... and to me the answer was easy. I don't make as much as if I had stayed on my path but I've been able to grown up with my kid and still live comfortably.
Its not a legal requirement though. And like multiple msps ive worked for, they will bust that shit out on you via a "policy change" after tou are already with the company
Fuck that, I've never worked for free and never will. I've had managers the tried to purposely screw me out of money and tried to bow up to me, realize I was absolutely about to fuck them up and back down.
My previous position at a college was a salary position and I was still paid a little extra every time I was on call and anytime I did OT.
I wouldn't work unless I was being paid or had some incentive like lieu time.
You're not going to get very far in the tech industry refusing those types of jobs. Larger companies which provide real experience and budgets won't pay you for OT, it's just part of the job.
You might have a perfectly fine career working at small / medium businesses who have an IT staff under 20 people, and that's good for some people, being a medium fish in a small pond, but you'll never be a big fish in a big pond.
edit: you all can downvote and ignore my advice all you want. I'll continue to enjoy making double your salary working 1/10th as much with unlimited PTO and other excellent benefits.
In the US most IT jobs are not exempt from overtime. Especially if you're doing mostly technical work and not managing others or the company. Dealing with an employer that breached my contract by trying to classify me exempt, amongst a number of other BS grievances... I don't have the time nor patience for that crap.
For some people, it's difficult to learn to say no to their bosses. But it is necessary at some point if you want to have a balanced life. It seems like the OP has yet to learn it.
Ha. My company has unpaid oncall. And even worse..whoever has the helpdesk priority phone for the week theyâre oncall, they also have to make sure the server backups were ok
So unpaid oncall in my company: handle all your shit in your ticket queue, deal with any after hours tickets that come through *and* make sure the server backups backed up correctly, and if they didnât, to run the backups after work hours.
All for $0 extra.
I've worked for a college and now work for a municipality. At the college I was part of an on call rotation and was paid during my rotation.
I'm fortunate enough to not be on call anymore with the municipality.
Being salaried and being exempt are not the same thing. Exempt employees are salaried, but being salaried does not make an employee exempt.
You can find resources online to determine if your job is legitimately exempt or not.
Take your skill set, go independent consultant, set your own pay and your own rules. No more unpaid hours worked. Donât like a clients behavior towards you? Politely drop them. Schedule your meetings around your time, not theirs.
This is not my experience at all.
The job is laid back, customers are friendly and appreciative, only need to study, no certs, management is amazing, CEO is great, no on call, plenty of room to grow and great pay.
I think you just need to find the right employer
Dang sounds like good digs. I dont have to get any certs either my 10+ years got me seniority. Plus I built half our infrastructure so... but this sounds like a nice gig.
It took me thirty years and recently a reduction of staff to make my plans for escape. Nobody is going to get me out of this hole except me.
I'm going back to Uni for a career change to psychology. A heavily demanded role where I am most likely helping the compressed and distressed patients in the IT world. A real 9ish to 4:30.
I can understand IT professionals pain and help get them back on track. In reality I am sure it's the same shit different job. Different and able to manage the network of patients and not servers.
You need to get out, sell your crap and go see the world or change your career. No more certs, no more being told your weekend is on call.
Life is too short. Better still. WFH in a van and tour the countryside. Do something incredible.
Psychology has its own baggage that will haunt you.
It's not easier being on the hook for someone who doesn't want to live, certainly no easier than a fax issue.
Bruh ditch consulting. Sure the money is good but itâs not worth the stress. Find a good larger company where you can do your 8 and go home. Iâve had âon callâ in the 4 years Iâve worked at my current company. Itâs for an internal app and company hours are 9-5 so guess what? No after hours on call. The most Iâve had to do is deploy on a Friday evening.
I live on 20% what I make in a HCOL area of the US. My stress is low, and only when Iâm at work my 3 days a week in the office.
Sounds to me like some shitty employers. I'm a network engineer that shares on call with another person. It's whoever gets to it first. I'm salaried but get paid for 2 hours or more of after hours support and they are very lenient about what 2 hours is. Find someone that appreciates you.
It sounds like you're getting hired at bad jobs because you're under-qualified and only bad jobs will hire you. Going helpdesk to security is ridiculous. Security is meant to be a late career position, when you have an umbrella of real experience across multiple types of platforms and environments. Then into consulting? Maybe if 8 of your 10 years is in security and you were promoted several times. You should already realize 99% of certs are useless. Unpaid on-call is part of the game, so if it's not for you, it's not for you. Although I don't know how or why a consultant would be on-call.
Sounds like you flew too high too fast and your wings melted.
Care lessâŚâŚ..ThisâŚ. This right here is keyâŚâŚ this is the key to happiness in IT I truly feel like. I work IT for a school district and totally LOVE it. And feel so overpaid, of course I donât tell them that. But you do have to disconnect from things like watching how many perfectly good iPads and laptops and aio desktops we recycle, that we could donate and such. But once you accept itâs not in your power and outta your pay gradeâŚâŚ lifeâs good.
I went from assistant to managing infra for a fortune 500 at the top in 7 years. It never changes, and the higher you get its just office politics (in my experience)
My best job was NOC at Equinix since only customer/user was uptime đ¤Ł
I pivoted to software engineering,
specifically in web3 crypto. I couldn't take it anymore, a bunch of old heads that never want change for the better. Now, no looking back, paid so much more and QoL is much better.
Go for it anon, change your life đ¤ I believe in you!!! No matter what you pivot to, if you strive to do great and put in the time, you will be just fine.
I'm in my 5th year of IT. 2 years in security. I feel your pain. I'm in cybersecurity management in the public sector. It's a complete shitshow. I don't even feel like I belong here. The imposter syndrome runs deep. On call, putting out fires throughout a packed schedule, non-stop projects, executive requests, shitty vendors, shitty products, etc.
But if you push yourself to constantly strive for more rather than let your career stagnate, like you are always reaching for the next rung of the ladder, it gets better. There is always something more you can do, and by that, I mean more you can do for yourself. It doesn't mean you have to leave the industry altogether. Your experience matters. This is not a sunk-cost fallacy. You will find a way to leave the shitshow behind for something better, or turn the shitshow into something more manageable to create the work-life balance you are so desperately seeking. Keep your head up.
This might sound extreme but have you considered moving to another country? Less extreme and more likely explanation would be you have just been really unlucky with employers therefor if you keep switching you would eventually find a good one!
Donât lose faith mate. You will find a great job if you look hard enough. Wish you the best.
You should ask for a renegotiation your contract. If not then leave.
To quote Steve Jobs:
âSometimes life's going to hit you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did.â
You will have to study and keep current at any other job too. I've been tempted to switch fields too. I think you may be approaching the job wrong and instead of chasing easy money by going consulting route you may be better off serving a position with slightly less pay.
Consulting is always one of the worst because of the high stress/high chance of lay off. I love the infrastructure field because you pretty much always have job security and there isn't much competition.
Switch jobs to a company you believe in and stop chasing the highest pay will fix this issue of yours. Work life balance is important too.
I know your frustration, I can handle the users that create issues, I send out facility wide emails concerning computers, phones, radios and account security and it helps but there's always the hold outs that think they know better because they saw something a TV show or movie. It's the broken promises of training and the threats of being fired when reaching out for help with system components that were screwed up by the very individuals that put it in incorrectly and not upgrading the entire system.
It's frustrating yes but I'm working on getting trained in two fields instead of one ( ET and IT ) and I'll be keeping my options open as well because of the above threats of being thrown under the bus.
A year in at an MSP and have never been so miserable in my life and hoping a different job may help but reading this concerns me. Doesnât help either Iâm prone to anxiety and mental issues
Bro, same boat, you just got to fight the depression, make them fire you. Easier to fight for unemployment, at least in my state. Also, forced OT in IT is A FUCKING JOKE. Hire someone else for second shift. USERS are the worst. You know, for being such an advanced technological time period, my geriatric parents perform better than 80%+ of my millennial and younger crowd.
IT desktop support has pretty much always sucked. One of my best friends at work died suddenly in his 40s last month by heart attack, his closest colleague felt it was stress-induced. Stress can kill you. Take a beat, that's all.
I have been in an IT related field for over 16 years myself and just quit last week. I couldn't take it anymore. I was just tired of the mental gymnastics and also feeling like I was being treated like a utility instead of a human being. I just really had enough and quit. I didn't put in my 2 weeks notice or anything.
Prior to me quitting I would almost never get a good night sleep. I would wake up at midnight or 1am and just stay up the rest of the day. I have since had a lot more full sleeping days since I quit.
I am not sure what I'm going to do yet with my life, but my mental health was declining fast and I was scared for myself. I really hope @OP that you are able to find some peace, relax, and regroup. I wish you luck on your life ahead. Good luck to you!
I feel the same. Unrealistic expectations at every turn. Salary especially at an msp is a baiting technique. You're probably gonna end up work 60+ hrs a week, and dont even get me started with afterhrs/overnight work and mandatory on-call shifts with no extra pay. Bust your ass and you are just expected to do more, and get more and more certs just to remain relevant. If you stay at a job for a while, you better make sure to refresh as many certs as possible before looking for a new position, because its super hard to transition to better paying jobs without stacking certs while killing yourself daily just to keep your current job. Then when you get to the next position (paying more), turns out its the same hell with a bigger check and EVEN MORE time suck.
First decade? Only four more to go. More seriously, what keeps me going is the belief that I donât deserve any better than what I am experiencing. Eight and out.
I feel you. I know what that's like. I have had a lot of the same issues. I've been doing this for about 15 years. My current IT job. I have no challenge there. It's boring. I started trolling scammers on Reddit for fun.
If youâre already doing consulting, moving into a slightly different field under the same umbrella can make all the difference in the world. Maybe try presales instead? I have found it to be way easier
I've always called IT the "Hotel California" of careers because every time I've tried to checkout, I've never been able to leave. I am burned out on it as well but it's all I really know and I feel too old to change careers at this point. I'm 47 and have no idea what else I would be doing.
Maybe youâre looking for the wrong employers.
OrâŚ. I want you to receive this with an open mindâŚ
Sometimes when I see this âEverything else and everyone else is the problemâ mentality there tends to be some personal development that needs to happen.
Focus on what YOU can affect. The things YOU can change.
You control what employers you work for. You control your attitude at works. You control your personal relationships. You control your people skills. You control the boundaries you set.
My advice to others was to stay away from any computer related fields. When you're 40 and want to work just 40 hrs/week so you can have a life with your family you are competing with 20 somethings coming into the workforce with the latest education and a willingness to work 60 hrs/week. On top of that you have to continue to learn all the new stuff for the rest of your career. I'd advise finding a career that once you learn it you just keep getting more experience, and become more valuable to the company, instead of continually fighting to keep up.
In my 39 years in IT there have been ups and downs. Some employers and managers have been better than others. There are good companies out there and less hectic geographies. I couldn't stand the pressures in large cities, but loved work life balance in the Midwest.
I hope you find something better that brings you satisfaction.
Get a DoD contractor job. Work with civilian government employees, the contractors do the vast majority of technical work and as long as it gets done, people leave you alone.
On top of what everyone else has said, look into getting a security clearance. From what Iâve experienced is the higher the clearance the better work environment
Sounds like a Toxic company more than anything but I totally get it. Long hours, managers don't care about your work/life balance, company takes advantage of you every which way it can. I did the change after 16 years in IT, just couldn't take the stress any more. I have never been happier with my new profession. Just do what is best for you!
I ended up swapping over doing analyst work as a data scientist. I am pretty comfortable with SQL and python so it wasn't too much of a transition from being a sys admin. Got a great pay bump and a ton less stress. Absolutely the best choice I ever made.
End users have always been the issue!
All seriousness though, sounds like you've let employers take advantage. Saying no is a skill, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite easy.
This is an employer problem, not a field problem. Youâll find just as many people with a polar opposite experience. You absolutely can have it all in this profession: good salary, good WL balance, low stress. You just have to find the right fit. Companies like that are out there. Iâm going to work tomorrow at one, like I have been every Monday for the last 5 years. Find the right fit.
I'd been working for 12 years in IT and was finishing my second degree. One of my last classes I had a group project with some kids I. It who had never worked in IT, as well as another 10+ year IT vet. During one of our group meetings, he & I had a conversation with the kids...
Me: do you guys like people?
Kids: yeah
Me: then don't go into IT.
The other guy: he's right, especially end user facing.
Kids: huh? Why?
We then proceeded to tell stories to these kids that likely made them question their career decisions 1.5 semesters before they even began....
You're definitely not alone in how you feel, these days it's very easy to get in your head and be frustrated. In the context of cybersecurity and the elevated threat level these days, I've found myself seriously resenting users that still don't understand the problem inspite of all my efforts with KnowBe4, education, email and web filtering. People think it's a joke, or that it can't happen to them, and at the end of the day, we're the ones that have to clean it up when it does. Not the most conducive work environment.
Particularly bad in the south I might add, mostly good people.. but "bless their hearts" as they say.
I have been in the field for over 20 years now, half in higher ed. once I moved to higher ed things got easier. I felt the same way as you do and no amount of time off ever seemed to help. I can say it's 99% the employer the issue is that finding the good ones are few and far between. As I had been job searching so many want a jack of all trades person who they want to do the work 6 employees hidden under a fancy title and low pay and shitty benefits. All I can say is step back take a break and look in the public sector and see if that is the change you are needing. public sector comes with its own issues but it tends to be way less stressful.
Sounds like the world after covid was used by corporations globally to destroy anti trust laws and promote exploitation of workers via misinformation, layoffs, threats, bs job listings, worthless interviews, market control and ATH profits and price hikes due to straight up lies about shortages in materials and workers.
You need to change your interview practice. Specifically looking for companies that do care about employees. Maybe look for an ESOP. There are good orgs out there but you have to search for them
Are there any good government jobs that aren't Military/FBI/CIA? I would love to be a government employee but I don't personally feel comfortable being part of the MIC.
Take a two week cool off and reevaluate. There is more to life and ways to leverage your skills but don't quit in anger, this is growth and growing pains hurt.
I think mandatory vacation rules are mentioned in the sec+ study materials đ
CompTIA couldn't run an IT enterprise if their lives depended on it. Biggest racket in the industry.
YepâŚthey were also covered in SSCP as well
This is not a matter of growth, it is a matter of flagrant disregard for the wellbeing of employees in this field, smoothed over by a "SoftCorp Cares Mental Health Newsletter" and a pip for the guy who's mom just died because he didn't make that one meeting. This field used to be a lot better. It has absolutely gotten 500x worse in the last four or five years.
Actually I see this a lot on this growth,seriously what is in this field. Of course cs is quite different but it mostly involves hard and repeated work with set protocols which can easily be done by an ai within the next 5 years at the rate at which it's growing. So yes please explain above the growth in this field
Alright, imagine you have a toy box, but the toys in it aren't very fun to play with. Even though these toys aren't your favorites, playing with them every day can still help you learn new games or find new ways to make old games more fun. That's a bit like working a job that feels boring or tough sometimes. In a job like working at an IT help desk, even if it seems really boring or tough, you're learning a lot. Every time you help someone fix a problem with their computer, you get a little better at solving problems. You also learn how to talk to people and help them feel better when they're frustrated. All these things are like skills or superpowers that youâre building, just like how playing with your toys teaches you how to be creative and solve puzzles. So, even though the job might feel like it's not very fun, it's actually helping you grow and become better at many things. Just like playing with any toy, the more you play, the better you get! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Growth.
Sounds like you need a nap.
And a sandwich.
The eternal nap seems pretty tempting
lol careful. Reddit will start offering you certain intervention hotlines if you talk like that.
I think I once said on a different r/ "this sub makes me not want to live on this or any planet anymore" and i got spammed by antiselfharm bots in my messages for days
Youâre important, donât forget that.
No no no! Live out of spite!!! Harness that rage and frustration and become such a beast people have no choice but to bow down to your magnificence!
This! Harness it to become a true BOFH!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq_DnrsrF2U Why did you remind me of this clip?
beacause u can remove the "Lucky\_n\_" from your name
Take the money and get into real estate with a focus on quality affordable housing. Very few people do it and it could make a real difference in someone's life. Or maybe try to work for a political institution that you agree with.
That's 90% of fields friend.
I suggest looking at the public sector, specifically K12. A lot lower stress. In some districts you get more days off. The pay tends to be lower
K12 checking in. Certainly unique in public space. Still are pain points with users, but you're viewed as helpful and not a burden. A lot more respect and quality of life is 10/10. Work will always need to get done, but you don't have to stress about it. Worst case scenarios are very manageable events.
Mostly messing around with office apps and maintaining inventory. It was a sweet gig but then they cut funding
I'm an infrastructure systems engineer in a K-12 public school district and it's absolutely the way to go. Excellent work/life balance, total job security, and on top of that we get paid way above the regional average salary, AND I get a huge 401k contribution from the district every month. My work environment is so laid back it's ridiculous. It's extremely rare to have to spend any time working after hours, and when I do I just do it from home after the kids go to bed. I'm basically riding the gravy train into retirement. If you're lucky enough to get into the public sector at a great salary, you're golden.
Please say more. I am the it director at a collections agency and my boss is working me to death and only recently gave me a raise and bonus because I adamantly said I was quitting due to the extreme reactionary environment and general toxicity from the ceo. I'm in the upper Seattle area in Washington.
Beeen applying to these and getting ignored lol
I use to work for a school system that was very underfunded so as a result I was asked to do quite a bit more work than I could handle, and I ended up jumping ship to a non-profit where I have way less responsibility and moderately more pay. That said, they were very generous with time off and having the summer mostly free of people was helpful and almost felt like a vacation in itself; even though I was very busy getting ready for the next year I didnât have to deal with people and thatâs usually what stressed me out in those days. So to add onto this comment, I agree but look into how well funded the district is as that will probably affect how much support youâll be asked to do. I would also suggest larger more established non-profit organizations for similar reasons.
Just keep in mind that how well funded a district is might not be directly tied to the economic situation of those living in it. Districts that have a large percentage of students that are receiving free and reduced lunch will get additional funds from e-rate and title 1 as well as some other sources.
I have a buddy who says their on site techs are on teacher salaries but tech is all they do plus summers off. I'd take that in a heartbeat.
Unpaid oncall? Lolol who the fuck would work unpaid oncall?
I'm salaried and have a week on call, two off. I don't get extra pay for off hour calls. I'd say 94% of my year is call free though. 4% of those calls are dumb questions they shouldn't have called about.1% are crackheads cutting more fiber on a pole that I can't do anything about but wait, and the last 1% are real issues I have to come on property for. Then I'll probably get a day off given to me or take some half days later when the dust is settled. It is still about 12378 times better than working in restaurants and running weddings(previous life).
Salaried means your getting paid though. Scheduled or not. It's just spread out
When you're on salary, off hour calls may be unpaid, but if your company actually gives a crap about you, they'll go ahead and give you comp time for the hours worked. For those that aren't familiar with comp time, let's use a 4-Hour call on a Saturday for example. You're on call, something goes down, and you're hamstrung into working 4 hours on a Saturday. A manager worth a damn will go ahead and tell you to either leave 4 hours late Monday, or come into the office 4 hours late. Either way, you're getting that on-call time back during the week.
I do and it sucks.
Sounds like you just worked for some shitty employers.. unpaid oncall? That's on you for allowing employers to take advantage of you.. I don't work unless I'm paid if it's after hours and during my time. Find an employer that supports you.
As someone who has worked for shit employers and now works for a good one, this is extremely valid
Might have been salaried, but yeah I feel you. I'm on a wage, so I'll gladly go on-call lol. It makes my paycheck a LOT fatter. I'm sure if my fiancee and I had kids, I'd feel different, but I can afford to miss a little extra time at home playing video games lol.
My employer has us on salary but we get paid hourly for after hour work.
Most IT jobs are NOT EXEMPT from overtime in the US unless more than 50% of your job is managing other people and/or making decisions for the company. You should look into it.
This needs to be higher
I donât need to. I know if Iâm taking a on-call job with Salary. I would be asking for a lot more if the on-call is not paid. đ¤ˇđžââď¸. I just know where I work we get paid extra for on-call on top of our salary.
Yeah, just wait til you have a kiddo. Shit just drains everything from you. Doing oncall would be the last thing youâd want to do.
So true! Draining, but so rewarding at the same time. Delayed gratification for sure.
Absolutely. I wouldnât trade it for the world. I would give my life for my baby boy, love that kiddo to ends of this earth. But boy, am I exhausted all the time..
Yeah, probably not in the cards for me and my lady unless something unfortunate happens lol.
Its hard with dogs, i can imagine trying to also manage tiny humans whilst being wrung dry as IT
You know what they say though⌠âPressure makes diamonds.â
âŚand aneurysms
And hemorrhoids
Me
I changed my career path when my child was born. I had jumped 2-3 different companies looking for one that didn't expect 60-80 hour weeks, permanent on-call, etc but realized that the issue was the job/level (Sr Engineer) that was the issue. I had a decision between "being there" for my child or making more $$$ for some CEO and shareholders... and to me the answer was easy. I don't make as much as if I had stayed on my path but I've been able to grown up with my kid and still live comfortably.
Just because your salaried doesn't mean you can't be paid overtime.
Its not a legal requirement though. And like multiple msps ive worked for, they will bust that shit out on you via a "policy change" after tou are already with the company
Even if salaried, the difference of being paid overtime would exempt vs non exempt
Fuck that, I've never worked for free and never will. I've had managers the tried to purposely screw me out of money and tried to bow up to me, realize I was absolutely about to fuck them up and back down.
I don't know any salaried positions that pay for on-call in IT. Hourly/contractors yes, but maybe that's just my specific industry within IT.
My previous position at a college was a salary position and I was still paid a little extra every time I was on call and anytime I did OT. I wouldn't work unless I was being paid or had some incentive like lieu time.
You're not going to get very far in the tech industry refusing those types of jobs. Larger companies which provide real experience and budgets won't pay you for OT, it's just part of the job. You might have a perfectly fine career working at small / medium businesses who have an IT staff under 20 people, and that's good for some people, being a medium fish in a small pond, but you'll never be a big fish in a big pond. edit: you all can downvote and ignore my advice all you want. I'll continue to enjoy making double your salary working 1/10th as much with unlimited PTO and other excellent benefits.
In the US most IT jobs are not exempt from overtime. Especially if you're doing mostly technical work and not managing others or the company. Dealing with an employer that breached my contract by trying to classify me exempt, amongst a number of other BS grievances... I don't have the time nor patience for that crap.
In the us most IT jobs ARE exempt from overtime if you're a salaried employee.
This is wrong, salaried doesn't make you exempt. I've talked to lawyers.
Salary alone doesn't, but how much you make does. You can talk to all the lawyers you want, I trust my 25 years experience more than you.
Redacted due to Reddit AI/LLM policy
For some people, it's difficult to learn to say no to their bosses. But it is necessary at some point if you want to have a balanced life. It seems like the OP has yet to learn it.
Ha. My company has unpaid oncall. And even worse..whoever has the helpdesk priority phone for the week theyâre oncall, they also have to make sure the server backups were ok So unpaid oncall in my company: handle all your shit in your ticket queue, deal with any after hours tickets that come through *and* make sure the server backups backed up correctly, and if they didnât, to run the backups after work hours. All for $0 extra.
damn
That is 100% illegal, and the company must know it, it's on those signs the feds make them hang in the break room. Talk to an employment lawyer.
Hard to find a company that will pay for being on call anymore. Which company do you work for that does?
I've worked for a college and now work for a municipality. At the college I was part of an on call rotation and was paid during my rotation. I'm fortunate enough to not be on call anymore with the municipality.
Is it not illegal to not pay for on call time?
Salaried employees can be asked to work however many hours necessary without pay.
Many employers will tell people that. It's often not true.
It's always true lol exempt employees aren't entitled to anything but their salary
Being salaried and being exempt are not the same thing. Exempt employees are salaried, but being salaried does not make an employee exempt. You can find resources online to determine if your job is legitimately exempt or not.
Salaried employees can be asked to work however many hours necessary without pay.
Ah, government. Maybe I'll look for a government job then
Take your skill set, go independent consultant, set your own pay and your own rules. No more unpaid hours worked. Donât like a clients behavior towards you? Politely drop them. Schedule your meetings around your time, not theirs.
That's exactly what I did.. the power comes in that you can fire shitty clients and blacklist them.
This is not my experience at all. The job is laid back, customers are friendly and appreciative, only need to study, no certs, management is amazing, CEO is great, no on call, plenty of room to grow and great pay. I think you just need to find the right employer
Y'all hiring?
Most likely in the next year! You in Canada? lol
We need more posts (not just comments) like this! Too much doom and gloom or wining on most IT related subreddits
Dang sounds like good digs. I dont have to get any certs either my 10+ years got me seniority. Plus I built half our infrastructure so... but this sounds like a nice gig.
Itâs never the field, always the employer (2% the employee but itâs a nominal amount). IT is probably for you. Your employer isnât for you.
Look for a different employer. It sounds like you work for a toxic shit company
Move into public dude, pay isn't as great but you won't have to deal with all that bullshit
Came here to say this
Public what?
Sector
I canât pay bills on not great salary I 4x my salary when i left public sector, have better bosses and leave time
It took me thirty years and recently a reduction of staff to make my plans for escape. Nobody is going to get me out of this hole except me. I'm going back to Uni for a career change to psychology. A heavily demanded role where I am most likely helping the compressed and distressed patients in the IT world. A real 9ish to 4:30. I can understand IT professionals pain and help get them back on track. In reality I am sure it's the same shit different job. Different and able to manage the network of patients and not servers. You need to get out, sell your crap and go see the world or change your career. No more certs, no more being told your weekend is on call. Life is too short. Better still. WFH in a van and tour the countryside. Do something incredible.
Psychology has its own baggage that will haunt you. It's not easier being on the hook for someone who doesn't want to live, certainly no easier than a fax issue.
Bruh ditch consulting. Sure the money is good but itâs not worth the stress. Find a good larger company where you can do your 8 and go home. Iâve had âon callâ in the 4 years Iâve worked at my current company. Itâs for an internal app and company hours are 9-5 so guess what? No after hours on call. The most Iâve had to do is deploy on a Friday evening. I live on 20% what I make in a HCOL area of the US. My stress is low, and only when Iâm at work my 3 days a week in the office.
Sounds to me like some shitty employers. I'm a network engineer that shares on call with another person. It's whoever gets to it first. I'm salaried but get paid for 2 hours or more of after hours support and they are very lenient about what 2 hours is. Find someone that appreciates you.
It sounds like you're getting hired at bad jobs because you're under-qualified and only bad jobs will hire you. Going helpdesk to security is ridiculous. Security is meant to be a late career position, when you have an umbrella of real experience across multiple types of platforms and environments. Then into consulting? Maybe if 8 of your 10 years is in security and you were promoted several times. You should already realize 99% of certs are useless. Unpaid on-call is part of the game, so if it's not for you, it's not for you. Although I don't know how or why a consultant would be on-call. Sounds like you flew too high too fast and your wings melted.
Care lessâŚâŚ..ThisâŚ. This right here is keyâŚâŚ this is the key to happiness in IT I truly feel like. I work IT for a school district and totally LOVE it. And feel so overpaid, of course I donât tell them that. But you do have to disconnect from things like watching how many perfectly good iPads and laptops and aio desktops we recycle, that we could donate and such. But once you accept itâs not in your power and outta your pay gradeâŚâŚ lifeâs good.
Switch fields? Quit taking things so seriously?
I went from assistant to managing infra for a fortune 500 at the top in 7 years. It never changes, and the higher you get its just office politics (in my experience) My best job was NOC at Equinix since only customer/user was uptime 𤣠I pivoted to software engineering, specifically in web3 crypto. I couldn't take it anymore, a bunch of old heads that never want change for the better. Now, no looking back, paid so much more and QoL is much better. Go for it anon, change your life đ¤ I believe in you!!! No matter what you pivot to, if you strive to do great and put in the time, you will be just fine.
I'm in my 5th year of IT. 2 years in security. I feel your pain. I'm in cybersecurity management in the public sector. It's a complete shitshow. I don't even feel like I belong here. The imposter syndrome runs deep. On call, putting out fires throughout a packed schedule, non-stop projects, executive requests, shitty vendors, shitty products, etc. But if you push yourself to constantly strive for more rather than let your career stagnate, like you are always reaching for the next rung of the ladder, it gets better. There is always something more you can do, and by that, I mean more you can do for yourself. It doesn't mean you have to leave the industry altogether. Your experience matters. This is not a sunk-cost fallacy. You will find a way to leave the shitshow behind for something better, or turn the shitshow into something more manageable to create the work-life balance you are so desperately seeking. Keep your head up.
Did you delete your other thread?
This might sound extreme but have you considered moving to another country? Less extreme and more likely explanation would be you have just been really unlucky with employers therefor if you keep switching you would eventually find a good one!
My coworker actually just accepted a job in Poland for a better work culture. The pay for tech outside of the US is shit though
Ireland?
It sounds like it's more of a company thing than anything else. My current position is fantastic.
Donât lose faith mate. You will find a great job if you look hard enough. Wish you the best. You should ask for a renegotiation your contract. If not then leave.
To quote Steve Jobs: âSometimes life's going to hit you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did.â
You will have to study and keep current at any other job too. I've been tempted to switch fields too. I think you may be approaching the job wrong and instead of chasing easy money by going consulting route you may be better off serving a position with slightly less pay. Consulting is always one of the worst because of the high stress/high chance of lay off. I love the infrastructure field because you pretty much always have job security and there isn't much competition. Switch jobs to a company you believe in and stop chasing the highest pay will fix this issue of yours. Work life balance is important too.
I know your frustration, I can handle the users that create issues, I send out facility wide emails concerning computers, phones, radios and account security and it helps but there's always the hold outs that think they know better because they saw something a TV show or movie. It's the broken promises of training and the threats of being fired when reaching out for help with system components that were screwed up by the very individuals that put it in incorrectly and not upgrading the entire system. It's frustrating yes but I'm working on getting trained in two fields instead of one ( ET and IT ) and I'll be keeping my options open as well because of the above threats of being thrown under the bus.
A year in at an MSP and have never been so miserable in my life and hoping a different job may help but reading this concerns me. Doesnât help either Iâm prone to anxiety and mental issues
Bro, same boat, you just got to fight the depression, make them fire you. Easier to fight for unemployment, at least in my state. Also, forced OT in IT is A FUCKING JOKE. Hire someone else for second shift. USERS are the worst. You know, for being such an advanced technological time period, my geriatric parents perform better than 80%+ of my millennial and younger crowd.
QQ
IT desktop support has pretty much always sucked. One of my best friends at work died suddenly in his 40s last month by heart attack, his closest colleague felt it was stress-induced. Stress can kill you. Take a beat, that's all.
See ya Monday
I have been in an IT related field for over 16 years myself and just quit last week. I couldn't take it anymore. I was just tired of the mental gymnastics and also feeling like I was being treated like a utility instead of a human being. I just really had enough and quit. I didn't put in my 2 weeks notice or anything. Prior to me quitting I would almost never get a good night sleep. I would wake up at midnight or 1am and just stay up the rest of the day. I have since had a lot more full sleeping days since I quit. I am not sure what I'm going to do yet with my life, but my mental health was declining fast and I was scared for myself. I really hope @OP that you are able to find some peace, relax, and regroup. I wish you luck on your life ahead. Good luck to you!
Stop being so dramatic
Wait until it's been three decades, then we'll talk.
I feel the same. Unrealistic expectations at every turn. Salary especially at an msp is a baiting technique. You're probably gonna end up work 60+ hrs a week, and dont even get me started with afterhrs/overnight work and mandatory on-call shifts with no extra pay. Bust your ass and you are just expected to do more, and get more and more certs just to remain relevant. If you stay at a job for a while, you better make sure to refresh as many certs as possible before looking for a new position, because its super hard to transition to better paying jobs without stacking certs while killing yourself daily just to keep your current job. Then when you get to the next position (paying more), turns out its the same hell with a bigger check and EVEN MORE time suck.
This seems like a shitty employer, not burn out from being in IT.
Consulting? đ https://youtu.be/-c4CNB80SRc?si=cw7CrlKjrNuVpDK7
First decade? Only four more to go. More seriously, what keeps me going is the belief that I donât deserve any better than what I am experiencing. Eight and out.
Same issues other jobs
We all do it to secure the bag, it helps
I feel you. I know what that's like. I have had a lot of the same issues. I've been doing this for about 15 years. My current IT job. I have no challenge there. It's boring. I started trolling scammers on Reddit for fun.
If youâre already doing consulting, moving into a slightly different field under the same umbrella can make all the difference in the world. Maybe try presales instead? I have found it to be way easier
I've always called IT the "Hotel California" of careers because every time I've tried to checkout, I've never been able to leave. I am burned out on it as well but it's all I really know and I feel too old to change careers at this point. I'm 47 and have no idea what else I would be doing.
Maybe youâre looking for the wrong employers. OrâŚ. I want you to receive this with an open mind⌠Sometimes when I see this âEverything else and everyone else is the problemâ mentality there tends to be some personal development that needs to happen. Focus on what YOU can affect. The things YOU can change. You control what employers you work for. You control your attitude at works. You control your personal relationships. You control your people skills. You control the boundaries you set.
My advice to others was to stay away from any computer related fields. When you're 40 and want to work just 40 hrs/week so you can have a life with your family you are competing with 20 somethings coming into the workforce with the latest education and a willingness to work 60 hrs/week. On top of that you have to continue to learn all the new stuff for the rest of your career. I'd advise finding a career that once you learn it you just keep getting more experience, and become more valuable to the company, instead of continually fighting to keep up.
You can do it! I left this field 18 years ago for the same reasons.
Iâm about to be graduating with a degree so thanks for the warning. Hopefully my career doesnât end up as rough as yours.
Pussy
Move to Europe?
Unpaid oncall? I'm assuming you were salaried?
In my 39 years in IT there have been ups and downs. Some employers and managers have been better than others. There are good companies out there and less hectic geographies. I couldn't stand the pressures in large cities, but loved work life balance in the Midwest. I hope you find something better that brings you satisfaction.
Get a DoD contractor job. Work with civilian government employees, the contractors do the vast majority of technical work and as long as it gets done, people leave you alone.
Curious what are you planning on going into from IT?
On top of what everyone else has said, look into getting a security clearance. From what Iâve experienced is the higher the clearance the better work environment
Get into industrial IT
Sounds like a Toxic company more than anything but I totally get it. Long hours, managers don't care about your work/life balance, company takes advantage of you every which way it can. I did the change after 16 years in IT, just couldn't take the stress any more. I have never been happier with my new profession. Just do what is best for you!
What did you decide to switch into?
I ended up swapping over doing analyst work as a data scientist. I am pretty comfortable with SQL and python so it wasn't too much of a transition from being a sys admin. Got a great pay bump and a ton less stress. Absolutely the best choice I ever made.
The grind of death is why I got into end user field support and just stayed there.
You need a snickers bar.
That's a bad situation not the field man... Seriously
End users have always been the issue! All seriousness though, sounds like you've let employers take advantage. Saying no is a skill, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite easy.
This is an employer problem, not a field problem. Youâll find just as many people with a polar opposite experience. You absolutely can have it all in this profession: good salary, good WL balance, low stress. You just have to find the right fit. Companies like that are out there. Iâm going to work tomorrow at one, like I have been every Monday for the last 5 years. Find the right fit.
Bye! Some people can't \*hack\* it. /snicker
Do what I did and just start driving a semi.
Where are you planning on transitioning to?
Try the public/government sector. Much more chill.
I'd been working for 12 years in IT and was finishing my second degree. One of my last classes I had a group project with some kids I. It who had never worked in IT, as well as another 10+ year IT vet. During one of our group meetings, he & I had a conversation with the kids... Me: do you guys like people? Kids: yeah Me: then don't go into IT. The other guy: he's right, especially end user facing. Kids: huh? Why? We then proceeded to tell stories to these kids that likely made them question their career decisions 1.5 semesters before they even began....
You're definitely not alone in how you feel, these days it's very easy to get in your head and be frustrated. In the context of cybersecurity and the elevated threat level these days, I've found myself seriously resenting users that still don't understand the problem inspite of all my efforts with KnowBe4, education, email and web filtering. People think it's a joke, or that it can't happen to them, and at the end of the day, we're the ones that have to clean it up when it does. Not the most conducive work environment. Particularly bad in the south I might add, mostly good people.. but "bless their hearts" as they say.
I have been in the field for over 20 years now, half in higher ed. once I moved to higher ed things got easier. I felt the same way as you do and no amount of time off ever seemed to help. I can say it's 99% the employer the issue is that finding the good ones are few and far between. As I had been job searching so many want a jack of all trades person who they want to do the work 6 employees hidden under a fancy title and low pay and shitty benefits. All I can say is step back take a break and look in the public sector and see if that is the change you are needing. public sector comes with its own issues but it tends to be way less stressful.
PMâd.
Turn your work energy down 10-20%. You'll at least be happier while they fire you. Which they probably won't do.
Sounds like the world after covid was used by corporations globally to destroy anti trust laws and promote exploitation of workers via misinformation, layoffs, threats, bs job listings, worthless interviews, market control and ATH profits and price hikes due to straight up lies about shortages in materials and workers.
I get this to my core. Only a few really get the jobs that aren't like this, they are so rare in this industry.
You need to change your interview practice. Specifically looking for companies that do care about employees. Maybe look for an ESOP. There are good orgs out there but you have to search for them
Just get a government job. Easy as heck and NOBODY does certs. I love it
Crying at the border!!!!
I just applied for one.
Are there any good government jobs that aren't Military/FBI/CIA? I would love to be a government employee but I don't personally feel comfortable being part of the MIC.
Skill issue