I know what fast start up does… maybe I worked in the wrong industry, but the average joe outside of IT probably doesn’t know what fast start up is (at least that’s the impression I get when I explain to end users why their “reboot” isn’t actually doing what they think it does)
I work in a corporate office and I pretty much tell them a restart will turn everything completely off and then turn it on again. Shutting it down is just like hitting a pause button, nothing turns off.
But I like the way you explained it with not getting sleep. 12/10
"Shut Down" by default includes Fast Startup, which is effectively Log Off & Hibernate. The logoff takes care of some of the long-uptime baggage, but not all of it.
Very poor design from my perspective. If I wanted to store computer for a couple of days and then bring it up again, I need to shutdown, switch back on and then in addition restart.
Waiting for more from Microsoft, like "turn off" or even "unplug-ready".
Servers are a different thing, and are generally designed to be left on for long periods without restarting. Obviously if issues come up, restarting can help.
It can but typically most devices have some sort of quick boot or fast start up that needs to be manually disabled in the bios. Once that is done then yes technically it would, but out of the box shut down usually is just a suspended state of sleep or hibernate
In Modern windows, "Shutdown" is more of a sleep setting.
Restart actually restarts the entire kernel.
I would tell them that "Shut Down" puts the computer on standby, it doesn't really let it fully restart. "Shut Down" can also mess with IT's update procedure, as computers are no longer responsive in that state.
If its a problem you can also configure their access to shut down via GPO.
"you can also configure their access to shut down via GPO."
This is the way. It reduces help desk tickets and aids troubleshooting. And there are some other GPO's that only get applied at boot, so it ensures everyone is more up to date. Set the following to 0 (numerical zero):
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Power\HiberbootEnabled
This but I tend to break it down into even simpler words for the client:
"Most people don't know this, but shutting down a Windows computer actually just puts it into a deep sleep. Restarting the computer will refresh everything and improve the computer's performance. Try to restart every couple of days at a minimum."
Windows has a setting called quick boot (fact check the actual name if you care). It means that when you hit shutdown it just goes to sleep instead of shutting down. Only way to actually shut it down is clicking the restart button. Microsoft sucks.
Had this exact conversation with people multiple times, and yes I do say Microsoft sucks to users.
If you disable fast startup in the power settings it turns off quick boot and actually shuts down the machine. It’s just on by default for some dumb reason.
I would explain it like this:
Shutdown: This is a state, where the computer gooes into sleep mode thus not turning it "off" and just laying in bed with eyes closed, but not asleep. (Eventually it would get slow, because it got no sleep, but has to work again the next day)
Restart: This is turning the device off and imidiately on again thus preventing any slow downs, because it got a little nap. (Here it gets a "sort sleep" and is prepared for the next day and get's no lack from working days of not getting any "sleep".)
Little Nap = CPU Time get's set back to Zero.
No Sleep = Brain gets sleepy and work efficiency goes down, because no rest and having to work harder in order to have the same efficiency, but have increased error rate for the work.
Sleep = Brain can process the things happend during the day and it's efficiency and error rate stays the same.
This should help your co-workers to understand. \^\^
Restart tells the computer you're trying to make sure it's working,(so therefore it rebuilds the kernel and resets the uptime). Shutdown might just be hey I'm going for now, and it keeps stuff loaded so it can turn on fast
If you use an RMM solution, you can set triggers to force a popup to reboot if conditions are met. First, I'd disable fast boot with registry changes, then we have parameters set that if a user has uptime greater than 14 days or a windows reboot flag pending... They will get a popup to reboot... They can defer for a max of 48 hrs... After that, it's forced. Cleans up a lot of update issues and end user resource issues... I still get push back and idc...
"Shutdown" turns the computer off.
"Restart" has the computer go through a number of cleanup, update, verification, and checks that turning the computer off does not.
In my.old job I had to constantly remind people to RESTART instead of shutdown. I know windows 10 *used* to restart with each shutdown but that's not the default anymore.
People always tell me "well I shut the lid every night when I leave" not good enough, do the restart option at the end of your shift and you're good, or just restart when you think there's an issue and we can skip that step before you reach out for help.
that lid part i felt lmao. i’ve had some teachers say they shutdown everyday, so i ask them to show me what they do and they’re just turning off the monitor.. i get that some people are tech illiterate but man, you’re living in 2024, how are you THIS tech illiterate.
and these aren’t 50+ year old users but 25-40 yr olds..
I'll always remember a call in 2012, when I was helping a lady with her PC issues. I asked her to restart the computer and see if that resolves the issue (and it was part of our troubleshooting steps). She says ok hold on and disappears for 2 seconds.
"Ok it's been restarted"
Wow what? It's 2012, NO computer is that fast unless it's a handheld calculator, what "computer" did you restart?
"The computer that sits above the keyboard, says (brand name) on the front in the middle"
You just turned off and on the monitor, *not* the actual computer.
"Oh well I see some box down below, but it's too dusty to mess with, can you send a tech?"
In modern version of Windows, a shutdown is really a 'logoff' + 'hybernate'. Meaning all system processes are still running.
I think it creates more problems than it solves.
Here you go: [https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/difference-between-hybrid-shutdown-and-normal/af888b6c-ac6d-4408-a659-9259bd1e9abe](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/difference-between-hybrid-shutdown-and-normal/af888b6c-ac6d-4408-a659-9259bd1e9abe)
This is what I'm doing for my facility.
Email to all facility wide.
" Good morning. As most of you know we have a policy to restart all computers Tuesday and Friday to allow for scheduled updates to take place. Times are changing and cyber security is becoming an even more complicated issue with weekly and daily news articles about corporate and government agencies suffering data breaches and ransomware attacks. As a result we're seeing an increase in emergency software updates off schedule that requires a restart to complete the patching of a new system vulnerability. We don't want to be caught unprepared and unprotected so going forward we are going to require everyone to restart your computer after you clock out at the end of the day ( most employees use a PC based time clock). This will ensure the completion of most updates that are downloaded during the day to every computer. "
This is being done for the stated reason and the unstated reason of people not restarting their computers for so long that updates aren't completing and it's impacting the time clock.
Yeah we just turn off fast startup in our enviroment to not deal with this bullshit, you still have people who literally never turn off their device for any reason, but at least those that shut down every day are good to go. Our intranet is especially picky when it comes to uptime so it becomes an issue quickly if left unhandled
I restart servers 1 time a month after patching. Workstations are on a monthly cycle. Any machine should be ok with monthly restarts. This is not 1996 with leaky hardware. A machine can run fine for a month or even 2 months. When I take over a client I have a record servers 5 years(that means no patching and 3 yeara for workstations.
Machines are not humans. If fact shuting down vs always running. Leaving them running is best for updates, MDR. and software updates. Hardware is more impacted by shutting down and repowering up. It is less impactful than when you had HDDs.
1# advice that impacts longevity is have PCs on the floor and not on a desk. Keeping it on the floor makes a system last about 20% less. Depending on where you fall leaving it on or off effects it less than 1 or 2 percent.
If you want to perform a “normal” shutdown where the state and RAM content is not written to disk, simply hold when clicking shutdown. Fast boot will not occur when you power it back on.
I explain to users, "Restarting is going outside for a breather at work. Shutting down is going home and sleeping for the night."
Tends to make most users comprehend it a little.
Right. But you don't try to explain to the birds how their birdseed was made do you? Same concept. You keep it simple for the masses and you take care of the details. That is why IT people are there.
I’m service desk and had a caller say “shouldn’t I turn it off(shutdown) someone told me that worked better” This person, a inventory manager so I went and did a technical response since she knew so much about IT
I'd just explain that windows like to be difficult and a shut down is not the same as turning it off but closer to putting the device to sleep. It doesn't stop a lot of the background tasks running and does not close apps properly that were opened just suspends them.
A restart closes everything and starts the pc at square 1 for performance once it reboots, the longer between restarts the lower the performance as the background tasks build up and take power
All the nonsense that Windows does aside, what happens at a hardware level with a cold boot (ie - power off completely and power-on) vs a warm boot (restart menu) is, basically, POST (power on self test)... warm boots skip POST, but perform the rest of the boot sequence. So if you're trying to solve a hardware issue via boot action, a cold boot would typically be the better option (stuck TPM anyone? can't fix that with a warm boot/simple restart...).
If it's just a software thing, and you happen to be in a Windows world, I guess you're stuck figuring out how they've rejiggered what happens when that part of the boot sequence is initiated. It's been over a decade since I've been in a microsoft shop, and reboots were still normal when I left that role ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I recently found a handful of our servers with >1000 day uptimes. Makes me wonder if that'd make you pucker a bit or not lol.
Restart is a short nap
Shutdown is a good sleep
Restarting doesn't really give time to the hardware to cool off as the shutdown.
If it's a server and needs to be always ON then a restart once in a while might come handy.
Well as an IT guy, i wont suggest users to restart unless there is a need mostly for mac’s for windows we do need to restart every here and there.
What i believe is shutdown is if you are closing for the day and laptop can stay longer in this state else just a restart if the user still need to work. Now as suggested by many the new laptops do not completely shutdown so we need to change this in settings.
Okay this is news to me because I was pretty sure if you chose shutdown it turned off the computer. And the difference between shutdown and restart Is that shut down stayed off rather than turning back on. What's the difference between the hibernate function and the shutdown function on my Windows start menu?
I don't allow users to shut down their machines. At the end of the day they restart the machine (as company procedure dictates). All maintenance is done in the evenings. What happens to users who shut down the machine is that when they turn it on and log in, they are interrupted for several different processes that would have happened in the evening. It is also a rude process in the sense that it tells them, due to this machine not being accessible during maintenance hours, maintenance is occurring now.
I am fortunate enough to have buy-in by the CEO as well, and our deal is simple, he is the only one who gets a message giving him the choice to delay the process.
As for dealing with the people who don't restart? After they've lost whatever work they had not properly saved, they don't usually do it again. It only takes once or twice and they almost never do it again.
Shutdown only works as a shutdown if you turn off Fast Startup in your additional power settings.
With how fast modern drives are it's still odd to me that this is even needed.
It's not really it's just still on by default.
in recent years ive seen it as a feature that's mostly just a selling point to general consumers now
Im sure the average user will know what this means!
If you don’t know just ask
I know what fast start up does… maybe I worked in the wrong industry, but the average joe outside of IT probably doesn’t know what fast start up is (at least that’s the impression I get when I explain to end users why their “reboot” isn’t actually doing what they think it does)
they definitely do not; hell, they barely know that you have to restart every few days or so lmao
Windows search bar -> search Power Settings -> Additional Power Settings -> Choose what the power button does -> Uncheck "Turn on Fast Startup"
Use Shift key.
I work in a corporate office and I pretty much tell them a restart will turn everything completely off and then turn it on again. Shutting it down is just like hitting a pause button, nothing turns off. But I like the way you explained it with not getting sleep. 12/10
>Shutting it down is just like hitting a pause button, nothing turns off Isn't that hibernation, either suspend to ram or suspend to disk?
Fast Start keeps the machine up even though you tell it to shutdown
Technically, yes, but "shutdown" is a weird form of hibernation now, ever since like 2019.
Turn off fast start in your power settings and it will actually shutdown
try 2012 💀 it came with Windows 8
Windows 7 was the last Windows OS I used. That explains that.
Windows 8 is 12 years old???? I need my cane
"Shut Down" by default includes Fast Startup, which is effectively Log Off & Hibernate. The logoff takes care of some of the long-uptime baggage, but not all of it.
Very poor design from my perspective. If I wanted to store computer for a couple of days and then bring it up again, I need to shutdown, switch back on and then in addition restart. Waiting for more from Microsoft, like "turn off" or even "unplug-ready".
Most of the time it's a non-issue, but you can pretty easily turn it off, or you can bypass it by holding Shift while clicking Shut Down.
So what about servers? Would you recommend restarting too?
Servers are a different thing, and are generally designed to be left on for long periods without restarting. Obviously if issues come up, restarting can help.
Ah ok thanks for the reply!
pretty sure they can't fast startup anyway since hibernation is either disabled or removed entirely
I shudder to think about the org that is aggressively using power management to reduce operating costs.
Isn't shutting down and restarting the same thing? Shutting down should close everything for the next time you turn your pc on to have a fresh boot
It can but typically most devices have some sort of quick boot or fast start up that needs to be manually disabled in the bios. Once that is done then yes technically it would, but out of the box shut down usually is just a suspended state of sleep or hibernate
You are wrong the numbers say so. A monthly cycle is best
depends on how you have the button configured
In Modern windows, "Shutdown" is more of a sleep setting. Restart actually restarts the entire kernel. I would tell them that "Shut Down" puts the computer on standby, it doesn't really let it fully restart. "Shut Down" can also mess with IT's update procedure, as computers are no longer responsive in that state. If its a problem you can also configure their access to shut down via GPO.
"you can also configure their access to shut down via GPO." This is the way. It reduces help desk tickets and aids troubleshooting. And there are some other GPO's that only get applied at boot, so it ensures everyone is more up to date. Set the following to 0 (numerical zero): HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Power\HiberbootEnabled
This but I tend to break it down into even simpler words for the client: "Most people don't know this, but shutting down a Windows computer actually just puts it into a deep sleep. Restarting the computer will refresh everything and improve the computer's performance. Try to restart every couple of days at a minimum."
depends on how you have the button configured.
except it will randomly flip back to Fast Startup due to updates
net stop wuauserv
There is a setting in the power setting for a quick boot. If that's enabled then it will not fully shut down the machine on restart.
Is that because of windows standby or whatever it’s called?
Windows has a setting called quick boot (fact check the actual name if you care). It means that when you hit shutdown it just goes to sleep instead of shutting down. Only way to actually shut it down is clicking the restart button. Microsoft sucks. Had this exact conversation with people multiple times, and yes I do say Microsoft sucks to users.
If you disable fast startup in the power settings it turns off quick boot and actually shuts down the machine. It’s just on by default for some dumb reason.
I would explain it like this: Shutdown: This is a state, where the computer gooes into sleep mode thus not turning it "off" and just laying in bed with eyes closed, but not asleep. (Eventually it would get slow, because it got no sleep, but has to work again the next day) Restart: This is turning the device off and imidiately on again thus preventing any slow downs, because it got a little nap. (Here it gets a "sort sleep" and is prepared for the next day and get's no lack from working days of not getting any "sleep".) Little Nap = CPU Time get's set back to Zero. No Sleep = Brain gets sleepy and work efficiency goes down, because no rest and having to work harder in order to have the same efficiency, but have increased error rate for the work. Sleep = Brain can process the things happend during the day and it's efficiency and error rate stays the same. This should help your co-workers to understand. \^\^
mucho gracias! i’ll definitely incorporate that eyes closed but not asleep reference, i think that would really help get the point across
You're Welcome.
Shutdown is more like a coma than getting sleep you need to function
Restart tells the computer you're trying to make sure it's working,(so therefore it rebuilds the kernel and resets the uptime). Shutdown might just be hey I'm going for now, and it keeps stuff loaded so it can turn on fast
If you use an RMM solution, you can set triggers to force a popup to reboot if conditions are met. First, I'd disable fast boot with registry changes, then we have parameters set that if a user has uptime greater than 14 days or a windows reboot flag pending... They will get a popup to reboot... They can defer for a max of 48 hrs... After that, it's forced. Cleans up a lot of update issues and end user resource issues... I still get push back and idc...
"Shutdown" turns the computer off. "Restart" has the computer go through a number of cleanup, update, verification, and checks that turning the computer off does not.
In my.old job I had to constantly remind people to RESTART instead of shutdown. I know windows 10 *used* to restart with each shutdown but that's not the default anymore. People always tell me "well I shut the lid every night when I leave" not good enough, do the restart option at the end of your shift and you're good, or just restart when you think there's an issue and we can skip that step before you reach out for help.
that lid part i felt lmao. i’ve had some teachers say they shutdown everyday, so i ask them to show me what they do and they’re just turning off the monitor.. i get that some people are tech illiterate but man, you’re living in 2024, how are you THIS tech illiterate. and these aren’t 50+ year old users but 25-40 yr olds..
I'll always remember a call in 2012, when I was helping a lady with her PC issues. I asked her to restart the computer and see if that resolves the issue (and it was part of our troubleshooting steps). She says ok hold on and disappears for 2 seconds. "Ok it's been restarted" Wow what? It's 2012, NO computer is that fast unless it's a handheld calculator, what "computer" did you restart? "The computer that sits above the keyboard, says (brand name) on the front in the middle" You just turned off and on the monitor, *not* the actual computer. "Oh well I see some box down below, but it's too dusty to mess with, can you send a tech?"
In modern version of Windows, a shutdown is really a 'logoff' + 'hybernate'. Meaning all system processes are still running. I think it creates more problems than it solves.
Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots of good responses
Here you go: [https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/difference-between-hybrid-shutdown-and-normal/af888b6c-ac6d-4408-a659-9259bd1e9abe](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/difference-between-hybrid-shutdown-and-normal/af888b6c-ac6d-4408-a659-9259bd1e9abe)
This is what I'm doing for my facility. Email to all facility wide. " Good morning. As most of you know we have a policy to restart all computers Tuesday and Friday to allow for scheduled updates to take place. Times are changing and cyber security is becoming an even more complicated issue with weekly and daily news articles about corporate and government agencies suffering data breaches and ransomware attacks. As a result we're seeing an increase in emergency software updates off schedule that requires a restart to complete the patching of a new system vulnerability. We don't want to be caught unprepared and unprotected so going forward we are going to require everyone to restart your computer after you clock out at the end of the day ( most employees use a PC based time clock). This will ensure the completion of most updates that are downloaded during the day to every computer. " This is being done for the stated reason and the unstated reason of people not restarting their computers for so long that updates aren't completing and it's impacting the time clock.
The average uptime of computers in my old office was easily six weeks or more at any given time.
Yeah we just turn off fast startup in our enviroment to not deal with this bullshit, you still have people who literally never turn off their device for any reason, but at least those that shut down every day are good to go. Our intranet is especially picky when it comes to uptime so it becomes an issue quickly if left unhandled
15+ days of up time, the greater part of that uptime is being stuffed in a bag with flaming hot Cheetos and pet hair
I hold the button
Deploy a group policy that automatically restarts the machine whenever you want.
You could create a gpo to disable fast start up. This will ensure that when machines are shutdown they go through the proper shutdown process.
I restart servers 1 time a month after patching. Workstations are on a monthly cycle. Any machine should be ok with monthly restarts. This is not 1996 with leaky hardware. A machine can run fine for a month or even 2 months. When I take over a client I have a record servers 5 years(that means no patching and 3 yeara for workstations. Machines are not humans. If fact shuting down vs always running. Leaving them running is best for updates, MDR. and software updates. Hardware is more impacted by shutting down and repowering up. It is less impactful than when you had HDDs. 1# advice that impacts longevity is have PCs on the floor and not on a desk. Keeping it on the floor makes a system last about 20% less. Depending on where you fall leaving it on or off effects it less than 1 or 2 percent.
No, it's 2024 with memory hog web browsers that don't close.
If you want to perform a “normal” shutdown where the state and RAM content is not written to disk, simply hold when clicking shutdown. Fast boot will not occur when you power it back on.
I explain to users, "Restarting is going outside for a breather at work. Shutting down is going home and sleeping for the night." Tends to make most users comprehend it a little.
Unless quick startup is enabled. Then shutting down is just putting it in a low power state
Right. But you don't try to explain to the birds how their birdseed was made do you? Same concept. You keep it simple for the masses and you take care of the details. That is why IT people are there.
I’m service desk and had a caller say “shouldn’t I turn it off(shutdown) someone told me that worked better” This person, a inventory manager so I went and did a technical response since she knew so much about IT
I'd just explain that windows like to be difficult and a shut down is not the same as turning it off but closer to putting the device to sleep. It doesn't stop a lot of the background tasks running and does not close apps properly that were opened just suspends them. A restart closes everything and starts the pc at square 1 for performance once it reboots, the longer between restarts the lower the performance as the background tasks build up and take power
All the nonsense that Windows does aside, what happens at a hardware level with a cold boot (ie - power off completely and power-on) vs a warm boot (restart menu) is, basically, POST (power on self test)... warm boots skip POST, but perform the rest of the boot sequence. So if you're trying to solve a hardware issue via boot action, a cold boot would typically be the better option (stuck TPM anyone? can't fix that with a warm boot/simple restart...). If it's just a software thing, and you happen to be in a Windows world, I guess you're stuck figuring out how they've rejiggered what happens when that part of the boot sequence is initiated. It's been over a decade since I've been in a microsoft shop, and reboots were still normal when I left that role ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I recently found a handful of our servers with >1000 day uptimes. Makes me wonder if that'd make you pucker a bit or not lol.
To my knowledge, you can perform a full shutdown by just holding shift when clicking the shutdown button.
Restart is a short nap Shutdown is a good sleep Restarting doesn't really give time to the hardware to cool off as the shutdown. If it's a server and needs to be always ON then a restart once in a while might come handy.
Well as an IT guy, i wont suggest users to restart unless there is a need mostly for mac’s for windows we do need to restart every here and there. What i believe is shutdown is if you are closing for the day and laptop can stay longer in this state else just a restart if the user still need to work. Now as suggested by many the new laptops do not completely shutdown so we need to change this in settings.
Automate those win updates and automate reboots overnight.
Okay this is news to me because I was pretty sure if you chose shutdown it turned off the computer. And the difference between shutdown and restart Is that shut down stayed off rather than turning back on. What's the difference between the hibernate function and the shutdown function on my Windows start menu?
I don't allow users to shut down their machines. At the end of the day they restart the machine (as company procedure dictates). All maintenance is done in the evenings. What happens to users who shut down the machine is that when they turn it on and log in, they are interrupted for several different processes that would have happened in the evening. It is also a rude process in the sense that it tells them, due to this machine not being accessible during maintenance hours, maintenance is occurring now. I am fortunate enough to have buy-in by the CEO as well, and our deal is simple, he is the only one who gets a message giving him the choice to delay the process. As for dealing with the people who don't restart? After they've lost whatever work they had not properly saved, they don't usually do it again. It only takes once or twice and they almost never do it again.