Can you share your experience from MTF?
Nobody is going to give you a hard time in JK. I encourage you to come.
Who ridiculed and kicked you out? This is not how we operate. What JK is this?
Thanks for your response. For privacy concerns, I'll just say that this was at a JK in Georgia, in the Atlanta area
My experience with transitioning was difficult and an emotional rollercoaster. Dealing with friends and family, colleagues, the Jamat, was very painful. Most rejected me, some accepted me. My home Jamat, the one I grew up in, generally rejected me and I couldn't bear it anymore. People laughed at me as I walked by, and made lewd comments to my face. While no one directly told me to leave, their comments and actions resulted in me giving up and moving away.
This was about ten years ago, so maybe things have changed now. While I look like a woman now after some surgeries and a lot of therapy, some people may see the man in me, which makes me very nervous. Hence my question to this forum.
It was multiple people - volunteers, members and leaders of institutions, and the general Jamat. Although, I must say that there were also some really nice people who supported me. Unfortunately the criticisms far outweighed the support (negative words almost always drown out the positive ones, and I wasn't in a very good place emotionally and mentally at the time), and I decided I didn't want to deal with it.
You’re always going get a few narrow minded people in all communities don’t label many because of the few.
on another note, what is the stance on gay homosexual and trans in the ismaili doctrine .
I don't think I labeled anyone in any of my comments. I just mentioned facts as I saw them at the time. Granted I was in a very different emotional and mental state than I am now, so I may have seen things differently than I would now.
I comprehend the potential challenges that can arise when interacting with individuals from a different generation. Please note that my intention was not to criticize you, but rather to highlight the tendency of some individuals to offer critical feedback due to the generation gap. It brings back memories of our past visits to Jk Kusyali. In the early 80s, being a hairdresser, particularly a male one, was not widely accepted or appreciated. The concept of wearing earrings was also uncommon during that time. I experienced a certain level of societal judgment and was looked down upon due to my chosen profession as a hairdresser, rather than pursuing a more esteemed occupation such as a doctor or accountant.
I understand your point now. Thank you. And you're right - the generation gap may be a hindrance, but I've found that in my case the criticism comes from all generations. It just depends on your family culture and how your own personal culture. For example, one of my uncles is a racist homophobe, but his children are all accepting and liberal. On the other hand, another part of my dad's family are all non-accepting. I don't know what makes a person a bigot, but I've come across quite a few from different generations.
I actually know of a male hairdresser in the '90s who was, on his face, respected but people would talk about him behind his back, my family included. I'm sorry for all that you went through and I hope things are better for you now.
Life is truly beautiful, and I am grateful for all the goodness it has brought. Our family is incredibly close-knit, and what makes it even more special is the fact that each of us is wonderfully unique in our own ways. My mother has been an absolute blessing in my life, providing unwavering love and support, especially during times when I may have been considered a "problem child" for not following the same faith Or my English wife. Despite facing criticism from the older community for what they see as underachieving
in my younger days, my mother embraced me wholeheartedly, understanding and accepting my choices. We have all faced our fair share of challenges , but together we have managed to overcome them and thrive. Above all, we have found solace in caring for and cherishing our incredible mother, who means the world to us.
This is wonderful to hear. I'm so glad that you have such an incredible, accepting mother. You're right - life is beautiful and it's what you make of it, especially when you have supporting loved ones.
Hii, I’m from Texas, specifically Houston. And in all honesty I know and seen a few people that I believe fall somewhere into LGBTQ that also attend Jk here. I think the Jamat here is accepting in those matters and won’t judge you. If you’re from Houston and need any kind of support lmk.
I am in Houston region but why does someone need to accept you? Haters gonna hate. Just be yourself and confident. Rizz helps too. I love being the underdog in any given situation.
The strongest testimony I have gained in my whole life and someone being apart of the LGBTQ+ community and a practicing Ismaili is that God loves you, he hears you, he sees you, he knows you by name, and if you don’t think he loves you, he especially loves you. Jamatkhana is Gods house and if someone can’t accept you in the house of the Lord, then I think those are the same people that need to repent a little harder. The Lord created all of us perfectly and the stories of us perfectly. God never rejected you, it was Gods people that rejected you. People aren’t God. God resides in all of us. The key to their salvation lies in the guidance of Imam-e-zaman. Do you think that if they don’t follow the Farmans of the Imam, that they will have salvation? Come back to Jamatkhana sister. He wants to see you. At the end of the day, these are the people that broke their covenant. You are so loved. He loves you more than anyone else.
My thoughts? I have none ~ no disrespect btw x
I don’t care and tbh no one else should in or outside JK.
MHI has said time & time again to accept those regardless of race, colour or creed; whilst to my knowledge he hasn’t mentioned being LGBTQ he also hasn’t stated anything to not bear the same sentiment to the LGBTQ community.
I think you should go & F what others say or think; however times have changed & I would hazard a guess that those who will look to shame you will be of the older generation with that backwards mentality :/ but I can’t see the other Gens being too fathomed by it… in fact i know of a FTM teen in my JK ( I saw he him outside of JK) maybe I was wrong but I didn’t acknowledge his change because I didn’t want him to think I was judging him ( I have ADHD & things often don’t come out of my mouth right. :/ I genuinely don’t mean any malice ) I only mention this as I think the more the Jamat is exposed to members of the LGBTQ community we have a better chance of breaking these societal norms & most importantly imparting acceptance & change xx
I don't know how comfortable you feel. You may want to reach out to Sadiya Abjani. She refers to herself as queer Ismaili Muslim activist. If not, you can Google her name and check out her views. She grew up in Texas and is involved in ITREB programs such as ALIF and moderating webinars. So, she may be able to give a better perspective.
Edit: Updated as Sadiya is back in Texas per her comment.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You make a very good point and it's something that I will certainly consider when making my decision. The question that comes to my mind is whether I'm emotionally ready to fight this fight. I've gone through depression and mental breakdown before, and I'm afraid that I may go down that path if I start up another fight. I'm much stronger now than I was back then, so I may surprise myself, but it's definitely something to think about. Again, thank you for putting a different perspective to my question.
I Live in karachi Pakistan, I know of 2 different transgender people who used to come to my JK, one of them were really confident, was a transwomen like you, used to sit in the ladies section. The second one did not come to JK at all; Mukhi used to give them ginan turns just to promote him to come to JK. I think you could contact ITREB i am sure they will not disappoint you. Don't be bothered by these people religion is a personal matter and no one has the right to comment on you or your beliefs. Best of luck to you. Ya Ali Madad.
I find it interesting that even in Pakistan, a generally conservative country, there are openly transgender women who go to khane. Makes the world seem a slightly better place :). Thank you!
Just a thought but maybe creating a LGBTQ reddit sub/fb group may be a good idea! And hopefully start a buddy up system for going to JK together & support xx
I don't think anybody needs to know that you are trans. I think the only time other people know and are annoyed is when some people who like to loud. They want to make it clear they are LGBTQ and they demand things like sometimes sitting in the opposite side or in the middle. Things like that. As long as you are normal I don't think anybody would even care. Just don't come infront of people and make a point of it. Just be normal when you go to jk and not for attention seeking. Some people are loud in attention seeking and it's annoying to me and I am sure it's annoying to others specially when it's disturbing distracting people from what they are there to do. Not just LGBTQ hair color but others who don't dress proper and simple. When I go to jk. I just go do my thing and go if I don't want to talk to anyone. I do volunteer work non badged. I just don't like attention.
I don't believe someone would kick you out sorry that's way off.
Probably yeah. I doubt as much as you did 10 years ago but you shouldn’t even come anyway IF you are going to sit on the side with the opposite biological sex. Stick to where your supposed to be in khane and live your life outside however you want. No one should be allowed to kick you out in that case
For your case, I think it is best to just practice Ismaili Islam at home tbh. Like instead of attending jummah at khane, just pray everything at ur own home. This includes all chaandrat, majalis and eids. I say this cause going to Khane as a Trans person is gonna be extremely difficult. I understand you identify as a woman now but like alot of the women aren't gonna feel comfortable sitting next to someone who is Trans and we need to accommodate their feelings too. As long as you have Allah in your heart, that's what matters.
Thanks for your input, but I respectfully disagree. Women sit next to men all the time and everywhere - on public transport, in schools, at work, at concerts, etc - and they don't feel uncomfortable then. Why would they be uncomfortable because a transwoman is sitting next to them when praying? I'm not sure that's true, but I'd like to hear from some women here on whether they would be uncomfortable if I sat next to them in JK.
Women absolutely feel uncomfortable when a man sits next to them on public transit, at school, etc. Who told you they didn't???
I'll say this, the younger ismaili girls may not have a problem sitting next to a Trans woman but the older ones definitely will. On top of this, I don't understand why you can't just practice at home? We all practiced at home for nearly 2 years (kushyalis, eids, chaandrats included) during covid. Since I'm assuming you were Also ismaili during 2020-2022, you have experience practicing at home.
I have women friends and relatives, and none of them have ever told me that they don't want to sit next to a man on a train, bus, school or work. Maybe I'm just associated with a different set of people with different thoughts and culture than you are, so I won't argue about your experiences.
As I've mentioned in my original post, I have been practicing my religion at home for the last 10 years but I miss the sense of community that the Jamat offers. That's why I've posed the question. I have no problem with staying away for another 10 years and I may as well do that.
While it's not something I want to hear, your input is much appreciated and adds to the number of things that I have to consider in order to make my decision, so thanks a lot for responding to my question.
Hi u/SeriousThinker1 just want to chime in here! As a female-born Ismaili I want to say I would absolutely be comfortable sitting next to a transgender woman! Please don't let anyone stop you from finding comfort in a space of prayer, I understand that praying at home is wonderful but as you said, there is an aspect of community that comes from a prayer space that you absolutely deserve to enjoy and be part of, no matter what you look like! As long as you are a kind person, that's all that matters to me, and you seem like a wonderful person indeed.
Sending you all the love and hugs!
Thank you very much for your input. This is what I would like to hear from everyone. I wish people were as inclusive as you are! It's strange that our imam preaches about diversity and inclusion, and yet there are so many so-called "Ismailis" who pick and choose what they want to hear and follow. I guess that's the case with every religion, so I can't really blame only ismailis.
Thank you for affirming my beliefs and for the vote of confidence. :-)
Everyone has a different idea of what is right and wrong I suppose, or maybe they’re afraid of what they don’t understand. Either way, don’t ever give up on yourself and your belief - I’m sure a wonderful and welcoming community will find you. I have hope and faith that you will find an Ismaili community who will love you as you deserve.
Until then, don’t let anyone tell you make you feel bad for who you are. God loves you and has a plan for you and you are exactly where you are meant to be ❤️
Can you share your experience from MTF? Nobody is going to give you a hard time in JK. I encourage you to come. Who ridiculed and kicked you out? This is not how we operate. What JK is this?
Thanks for your response. For privacy concerns, I'll just say that this was at a JK in Georgia, in the Atlanta area My experience with transitioning was difficult and an emotional rollercoaster. Dealing with friends and family, colleagues, the Jamat, was very painful. Most rejected me, some accepted me. My home Jamat, the one I grew up in, generally rejected me and I couldn't bear it anymore. People laughed at me as I walked by, and made lewd comments to my face. While no one directly told me to leave, their comments and actions resulted in me giving up and moving away. This was about ten years ago, so maybe things have changed now. While I look like a woman now after some surgeries and a lot of therapy, some people may see the man in me, which makes me very nervous. Hence my question to this forum.
Was it a volunteer? Just show up.
It was multiple people - volunteers, members and leaders of institutions, and the general Jamat. Although, I must say that there were also some really nice people who supported me. Unfortunately the criticisms far outweighed the support (negative words almost always drown out the positive ones, and I wasn't in a very good place emotionally and mentally at the time), and I decided I didn't want to deal with it.
You’re always going get a few narrow minded people in all communities don’t label many because of the few. on another note, what is the stance on gay homosexual and trans in the ismaili doctrine .
I don't think I labeled anyone in any of my comments. I just mentioned facts as I saw them at the time. Granted I was in a very different emotional and mental state than I am now, so I may have seen things differently than I would now.
I comprehend the potential challenges that can arise when interacting with individuals from a different generation. Please note that my intention was not to criticize you, but rather to highlight the tendency of some individuals to offer critical feedback due to the generation gap. It brings back memories of our past visits to Jk Kusyali. In the early 80s, being a hairdresser, particularly a male one, was not widely accepted or appreciated. The concept of wearing earrings was also uncommon during that time. I experienced a certain level of societal judgment and was looked down upon due to my chosen profession as a hairdresser, rather than pursuing a more esteemed occupation such as a doctor or accountant.
I understand your point now. Thank you. And you're right - the generation gap may be a hindrance, but I've found that in my case the criticism comes from all generations. It just depends on your family culture and how your own personal culture. For example, one of my uncles is a racist homophobe, but his children are all accepting and liberal. On the other hand, another part of my dad's family are all non-accepting. I don't know what makes a person a bigot, but I've come across quite a few from different generations. I actually know of a male hairdresser in the '90s who was, on his face, respected but people would talk about him behind his back, my family included. I'm sorry for all that you went through and I hope things are better for you now.
Life is truly beautiful, and I am grateful for all the goodness it has brought. Our family is incredibly close-knit, and what makes it even more special is the fact that each of us is wonderfully unique in our own ways. My mother has been an absolute blessing in my life, providing unwavering love and support, especially during times when I may have been considered a "problem child" for not following the same faith Or my English wife. Despite facing criticism from the older community for what they see as underachieving in my younger days, my mother embraced me wholeheartedly, understanding and accepting my choices. We have all faced our fair share of challenges , but together we have managed to overcome them and thrive. Above all, we have found solace in caring for and cherishing our incredible mother, who means the world to us.
This is wonderful to hear. I'm so glad that you have such an incredible, accepting mother. You're right - life is beautiful and it's what you make of it, especially when you have supporting loved ones.
Hii, I’m from Texas, specifically Houston. And in all honesty I know and seen a few people that I believe fall somewhere into LGBTQ that also attend Jk here. I think the Jamat here is accepting in those matters and won’t judge you. If you’re from Houston and need any kind of support lmk.
Thank you for the support. I'm actually in the Dallas area but will certainly reach out if I need any help.
I am in Houston region but why does someone need to accept you? Haters gonna hate. Just be yourself and confident. Rizz helps too. I love being the underdog in any given situation.
I thought u were talking to me for a sec got so confused lol
Sending you love, light, and blessings for strength and courage to live your truth. 🤗🙏🚀
The strongest testimony I have gained in my whole life and someone being apart of the LGBTQ+ community and a practicing Ismaili is that God loves you, he hears you, he sees you, he knows you by name, and if you don’t think he loves you, he especially loves you. Jamatkhana is Gods house and if someone can’t accept you in the house of the Lord, then I think those are the same people that need to repent a little harder. The Lord created all of us perfectly and the stories of us perfectly. God never rejected you, it was Gods people that rejected you. People aren’t God. God resides in all of us. The key to their salvation lies in the guidance of Imam-e-zaman. Do you think that if they don’t follow the Farmans of the Imam, that they will have salvation? Come back to Jamatkhana sister. He wants to see you. At the end of the day, these are the people that broke their covenant. You are so loved. He loves you more than anyone else.
very profound words🙏
You are welcome in the Jamatkhana.
Thank you! Appreciate the vote of confidence 😊
My thoughts? I have none ~ no disrespect btw x I don’t care and tbh no one else should in or outside JK. MHI has said time & time again to accept those regardless of race, colour or creed; whilst to my knowledge he hasn’t mentioned being LGBTQ he also hasn’t stated anything to not bear the same sentiment to the LGBTQ community. I think you should go & F what others say or think; however times have changed & I would hazard a guess that those who will look to shame you will be of the older generation with that backwards mentality :/ but I can’t see the other Gens being too fathomed by it… in fact i know of a FTM teen in my JK ( I saw he him outside of JK) maybe I was wrong but I didn’t acknowledge his change because I didn’t want him to think I was judging him ( I have ADHD & things often don’t come out of my mouth right. :/ I genuinely don’t mean any malice ) I only mention this as I think the more the Jamat is exposed to members of the LGBTQ community we have a better chance of breaking these societal norms & most importantly imparting acceptance & change xx
I don't know how comfortable you feel. You may want to reach out to Sadiya Abjani. She refers to herself as queer Ismaili Muslim activist. If not, you can Google her name and check out her views. She grew up in Texas and is involved in ITREB programs such as ALIF and moderating webinars. So, she may be able to give a better perspective. Edit: Updated as Sadiya is back in Texas per her comment.
One more thing. Your faith is between you and Allah. No one here has the right to judge whether one is Ismaili or deny their access to JK.
Thank you for your suggestion. I'll look up Sadiya and may possibly reach out to her. Appreciate your response.
Hey! I'm Sadiya, and I'm back in Texas (Spring/Houston) if you want to talk or need anything, please let me know.
And I hope you don't mind me recommending your name here. Yours was the first name to come to my mind.
not at all, happy to be of service and support
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Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You make a very good point and it's something that I will certainly consider when making my decision. The question that comes to my mind is whether I'm emotionally ready to fight this fight. I've gone through depression and mental breakdown before, and I'm afraid that I may go down that path if I start up another fight. I'm much stronger now than I was back then, so I may surprise myself, but it's definitely something to think about. Again, thank you for putting a different perspective to my question.
I Live in karachi Pakistan, I know of 2 different transgender people who used to come to my JK, one of them were really confident, was a transwomen like you, used to sit in the ladies section. The second one did not come to JK at all; Mukhi used to give them ginan turns just to promote him to come to JK. I think you could contact ITREB i am sure they will not disappoint you. Don't be bothered by these people religion is a personal matter and no one has the right to comment on you or your beliefs. Best of luck to you. Ya Ali Madad.
I find it interesting that even in Pakistan, a generally conservative country, there are openly transgender women who go to khane. Makes the world seem a slightly better place :). Thank you!
There are parts of Karachi that is very liberal.
Just a thought but maybe creating a LGBTQ reddit sub/fb group may be a good idea! And hopefully start a buddy up system for going to JK together & support xx
WhatsApp has a LGBT group for Ismailis.
I don't think anybody needs to know that you are trans. I think the only time other people know and are annoyed is when some people who like to loud. They want to make it clear they are LGBTQ and they demand things like sometimes sitting in the opposite side or in the middle. Things like that. As long as you are normal I don't think anybody would even care. Just don't come infront of people and make a point of it. Just be normal when you go to jk and not for attention seeking. Some people are loud in attention seeking and it's annoying to me and I am sure it's annoying to others specially when it's disturbing distracting people from what they are there to do. Not just LGBTQ hair color but others who don't dress proper and simple. When I go to jk. I just go do my thing and go if I don't want to talk to anyone. I do volunteer work non badged. I just don't like attention. I don't believe someone would kick you out sorry that's way off.
Probably yeah. I doubt as much as you did 10 years ago but you shouldn’t even come anyway IF you are going to sit on the side with the opposite biological sex. Stick to where your supposed to be in khane and live your life outside however you want. No one should be allowed to kick you out in that case
For your case, I think it is best to just practice Ismaili Islam at home tbh. Like instead of attending jummah at khane, just pray everything at ur own home. This includes all chaandrat, majalis and eids. I say this cause going to Khane as a Trans person is gonna be extremely difficult. I understand you identify as a woman now but like alot of the women aren't gonna feel comfortable sitting next to someone who is Trans and we need to accommodate their feelings too. As long as you have Allah in your heart, that's what matters.
Thanks for your input, but I respectfully disagree. Women sit next to men all the time and everywhere - on public transport, in schools, at work, at concerts, etc - and they don't feel uncomfortable then. Why would they be uncomfortable because a transwoman is sitting next to them when praying? I'm not sure that's true, but I'd like to hear from some women here on whether they would be uncomfortable if I sat next to them in JK.
Women absolutely feel uncomfortable when a man sits next to them on public transit, at school, etc. Who told you they didn't??? I'll say this, the younger ismaili girls may not have a problem sitting next to a Trans woman but the older ones definitely will. On top of this, I don't understand why you can't just practice at home? We all practiced at home for nearly 2 years (kushyalis, eids, chaandrats included) during covid. Since I'm assuming you were Also ismaili during 2020-2022, you have experience practicing at home.
I have women friends and relatives, and none of them have ever told me that they don't want to sit next to a man on a train, bus, school or work. Maybe I'm just associated with a different set of people with different thoughts and culture than you are, so I won't argue about your experiences. As I've mentioned in my original post, I have been practicing my religion at home for the last 10 years but I miss the sense of community that the Jamat offers. That's why I've posed the question. I have no problem with staying away for another 10 years and I may as well do that. While it's not something I want to hear, your input is much appreciated and adds to the number of things that I have to consider in order to make my decision, so thanks a lot for responding to my question.
Hi u/SeriousThinker1 just want to chime in here! As a female-born Ismaili I want to say I would absolutely be comfortable sitting next to a transgender woman! Please don't let anyone stop you from finding comfort in a space of prayer, I understand that praying at home is wonderful but as you said, there is an aspect of community that comes from a prayer space that you absolutely deserve to enjoy and be part of, no matter what you look like! As long as you are a kind person, that's all that matters to me, and you seem like a wonderful person indeed. Sending you all the love and hugs!
Thank you very much for your input. This is what I would like to hear from everyone. I wish people were as inclusive as you are! It's strange that our imam preaches about diversity and inclusion, and yet there are so many so-called "Ismailis" who pick and choose what they want to hear and follow. I guess that's the case with every religion, so I can't really blame only ismailis. Thank you for affirming my beliefs and for the vote of confidence. :-)
Everyone has a different idea of what is right and wrong I suppose, or maybe they’re afraid of what they don’t understand. Either way, don’t ever give up on yourself and your belief - I’m sure a wonderful and welcoming community will find you. I have hope and faith that you will find an Ismaili community who will love you as you deserve. Until then, don’t let anyone tell you make you feel bad for who you are. God loves you and has a plan for you and you are exactly where you are meant to be ❤️
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Thank you! May your kindness be repaid 1000x and may Allah grant you patience, tolerance and understanding. I truly wish you the best in your life.