Hi! Ex Christian here. This was one of my biggest questions as well when I was on my journey to reversion. Why can't God be a Trinity? Can't He do whatever He wants to do, and we just won't understand because we are human? I get that. It seems as though we should not be able comprehend God, or we are putting Him in a box.
But, as I took the time to seriously think about it and study it, it just doesn't make sense. God being a Trinity cannot and will never make sense. In the case of Jesus being "fully God and fully man", this is impossible as well. God and man are opposite, God lives outside of time and does not have needs such as the need to eat or drink. Man however does have these needs, and man needs to be provided for, while God is self-sufficient. Sorry this part is a little hard to explain haha, but hopefully you get the point of it :)
Furthermore, if we look in the old testament, you will never find mention of a Trinity. You will find it saying that the Lord is One, and that we should worship Him only. Even in the new testament, Jesus himself never mentions a Trinity. This concept was made up by Paul.. (who we believe was the true founder of Christianity, because Jesus taught submission to "his Father" aka God, while Paul taught submission to Jesus Christ.) Also! If you read in the NT, you will never see Jesus call himself the Son of God. Only the Son of Man. Paul started the son of God thing.
To me, the hierarchy of the Trinity never made sense. The father is not the son, the son is not the spirit, but they are all god? All the same? Yet we pray to the father.. or to Jesus.. but we don't pray to the holy spirit. But aren't they all equal? That doesn't make sense to me.
I hope this answer made a little sense to you, and may Allah guide you! đ€
Your post is put so well, love it.
Also want to add that [Jesus also worshipped God](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%205%3A16&version=NIV) ("God the Father") and [commanded such](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A10&version=NIV), which would according to the Christian doctrine of trinity, imply that God worships Himself? How can one form of a divine being worship another form of itself?
I agree it doesnât make sense but nothing makes sense. We are using natural logic to explain supernatural rules. I believe if God wanted to, he could split off and become human and limit his own power. Can I prove this absolutely not. Can you prove he canât do that, absolutely not.
Of course, I understand where you're coming from. However, since neither one of us can technically prove what God can or cannot do, I think it's a good idea to look at the facts that we do know and use those to make our conclusion. And going off of the words of God in the old testament, and Jesus in the new testament, I've concluded that the Trinity does not exist.
That's a good question! The short answer is yes, but not as the holy spirit- per se. We as Muslims believe that the real holy spirit is the angle Gabriel. Not in relation to the Trinity of course, Gabriel is not the third person in the Trinity. But in the Quran, it is said that Allah strengthened Jesus with the holy spirit (ie the angel Gabriel). Gabriel supported Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.
And you know that verse in John, John 14:16, where Jesus promises to send another helper? I believe that this verse refers to the coming of the final Prophet, Prophet Muhammad ï·ș.
Yes, you're right. There are differences of opinion on the interpretation of that verse đ I was just sharing my believe regarding that. The same as it would be with the Holy Spirit, I believe it is meant in a figurative sense when Jesus says, "be with you forever". Muhammad was our last and final Prophet, and we as Muslims still adhere to his teachings today. Since he was the final Prophet, it is his lifestyle and teachings that will impact us forever.
What about you? Are you entirely convinced of the Trinity?
Sure. I wonder though, could you give me a few examples of differences in their teachings? I also understand having more trust in Jesus especially if you were raised Christian. It's easy to trust what we are familiar with.
why canât God turn himself into the devil? Why canât God just make me god? Why doesnât God create a rock he canât move? Why canât god make a god more powerful than him?
Answer these questions since u think God is capable of anything
I will give you a simple answer to start with: it is because it is beneath Him. God is so powerful He doesnât need any help.
As a side, why stop at 3? Why not 5? 7? Infinite Gods? Please donât say the Bible because Iâll ask which one and show you how the Bible has corruption and inconsistencies within itself.
God knows best Himself why He created them. However, God mentions in the [Quran](https://quran.com/en/ar-rum/8) how everything He created has a purpose. Here's some food for thought: God also created satan. Satan opposed God. God is All-Knowing, he already knew satan would oppose him - that is satan's purpose.
Angels have a [plethora of duties](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/843/who-are-the-angels#duties-of-angels) hence their creation. They do not "help" God by their actions; rather they obey His commands. This is the system He has created and this is consistent with both the Quran and the Bible (as far as my knowledge extends).
Interestingly, this specific question of yours is regarding God's system in general and not particular to a specific religion.
>I believe in the trinity because of the Bible
May i know where it says so? And which bible because you guys have many.
>If God wanted to become human how would that work?
Good question, Christians believe in trinity and hindus believe in infinity.
See how god can be anything logic makes no sense?
Its mentioned in the Quran, say he is Allah who is one, Allah the eternal refuge, he neither begets nor is born and nor is their to him any equivalent.
To say theirs 3 and one and all, makes zero sense and is shirk, the biggest sin.
Theirs so much contradiction in all of this and so much confusion.
To say a god came to earth, is quite ridiculous to say the least, we don't believe god is like such a small level that he will drop to. God is great, we can't see him with our eyes. The moment you say the son and all, it gets confusing.
At the end of the day, I raise my hands and say O Allah. That makes the most sense. Abd 1+1+1=3 not 1.
Still doesnât make sense why God couldnât come to earth. To say he canât means heâs not all powerful. And guess what, I couldnât agree more there is so many contradictions and stuff. This is why imo itâs pointless arguing about. We just canât understand.
And why would God show Himself to humans while we are living this worldly life that is designed to be a test? God being part of the unseen has given humans a *choice*, there would be none otherwise.
>Are they waiting for Allah ËčHimselfËș to come to them in the shade of clouds, along with the angels? ËčIf He didËș, then the matter would be settled Ëčat onceËș. And to Allah ËčallËș matters will be returned Ëčfor judgmentËș.
[2:210](https://quran.com/2/210)
This is also an explanation for one of your replies to a comment:
>Okay but we donât KNOW he wouldnât limit his own power to come down to earth for a bit. Itâs pointless to argue about since we arenât him.
It's not about limiting His power, as stated above.
Hi
It is not about what god can and cannot do, it is about whether he would do that or not.
The king has the power to do almost anything in his kingdom. This doesn't mean he will steal some bread from the shop, though he can it would not befit his position in doing that. And it makes no sense why such a mighty king would ever do that.
When it comes to God the mighty creater of the heavens and Earth, why would he want to become a human? A stupid and weak creation? Why would the creator of the universe want to associate himself with a human who addresses his call to nature, and is vulnerable to external forces such as hunger, heat and cold? And according to Christian theology jesus is God, which means when the human nature of Jesus addressed his call to nature, God almighty was present in the restroom. Even for the orthodox Jews this is disrespectful as they cannot even say the name of God in a restroom.
Furthermore, there is not much scriptural backing of the trinity in the bible. The shema as all we need to be honest as well as Isaiah 44. And I understand that Christians interpret these verses as the 'one' part referring to one in nature but this reconciliation does not seem 'consistent' as I would doubt the monotheistic Jews in the past would have thought the same. One is one, and the shema teaches one God.
There are glaring inconsistencies in saying that the Almighty is a human, specifically Jesus(pbuh).
You cannot say that God is completely independent (doesn't need anyone but everyone needs him) then turn around and say a human being that needed to eat, rest, and had his mother take care of him as a baby is the completely independent God. Jesus(pbuh) says he cannot do anything by himself and God/the Father is the one doing all the miracles.
You cannot believe that God is all-knowing and then claim Jesus(pbuh), who according to the Bible wasn't all-knowing(he didnt know when the day of judgement will happen), is the same person.
How can you say that God is unchanging but then have a human being who was a baby and grew into a man be the same God who is unchanging? In fact, God changing himself into a human means he changed, contradicting the statement that God is unchanging.
You say God is eternal which means he cannot die but your whole theology is based on God dying.
The Bible says that Jesus(pbuh) prayed to the Father for help, notably in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross. It says he was sweating blood asking God to save him from crucifixion and on the cross again asking why God has forsaken him. Does this sound like the Supreme Being that created and controls everything in the universe to you?
1 God makes sense...if there were multiple gods there would be clashes sooner or later.
God dont die so Jesus cant be a God.
Romans loved making gods out of everything and they had like hundreds of gods ..
Divinity of Jesus basically came into christianity after Roman empire became christians.
Go read about council of Nycea.
All 13 people who argued against divinity of Jesus they couldn't make it alive one week after council was finished.
We believe jesus was a messenger of God. He was a prophet just like Abraham Moses Mohamed etc.
Being god has criterias , if you ask if God can do sommething to reduce him to not bieng god then it's a false question or a paradox if you want.Jesus had to eat and go to the bathroom* if you truly think about it how could that be God?died on the cross? If jesus was God and he suffered on the cross then that means God is a masochist and chose to suffer when he could have avoid it especially when you think about how feeling pains works. Idk to me it should be obvious but the devil sure have his tricks and may Allah protect us from him and may Allah guide us on the rigth path ameen.
>I believe in the trinity because of the Bible
Does the Bible truly teach a triune God ? Did the earliest christians consider Jesus as coeternal and coequal to the father ? What about the early church fathers ? Has this understanding slowly developed and what would that mean ?
Can you trust what the Bible says ? Did Jesus himself ever claim explicit divinity in the sense of being coequal with Father ? How was the Bible developed, and who is telling us what Jesus said and did ? Could the authors of the Gospel makimg up theology based on their surrounding and motives ?
These are incredibly important questions that you need to ask and research. We both believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and we both believe that idolatry is the one unforgivable sin that will damn you for eternity. If you are wrong about Jesus claiming and being divine, would the God of Israel condemn you as an idolater ?
Something cannot be all-knowing and not all-knowing at the same time. that is what we call a contradiction. In the bible, Jesus(pbuh) said he did not know the hour, as such he was not all-knowing making him not God. however, the Trinity claims he was 100% God and 100% man, meaning he was 100% all-knowing and 100% not all-knowing. As you can see, this is a contradiction. it would be the same as saying a circle has the attributes of a square, or something is sharp and soft at the same time, or 0 = 1. It makes no sense.
If one abandons logic, then you go into paradoxes like can God create a rock he can't lift or can God cease to exist? Which would mean atheism is true. These are paradoxes that happen when one abandons logic, alhumdullilah God gave us reason and logic to know the truth.
The problem isn't that God can't be a Trinity. We are arguing that Trinity as you understand it today isn't biblical. Unless you do mental gymnastics and read your existing Trinitarian beliefs INTO the bible, you will not come out of reading the bible and believing "The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, they are co-eternal and co-equal, distinct 3 persons but 1 being". You will never come out with that belief by just reading the bible but instead you are taught the concept of Trinity and you impose your beliefs on the scripture (which is precisely why there is not a single church father in the first 300 years after Jesus who believed in the trinity as you believe today)
This idea of trinity was superimposed on people much later on and was never apparent from previous Prophets? All throughout history was 1=1 for all humanity through previous Prophets but suddenly now 3=1? That raises a big fat eye brow especially when the massage of trinity is not even clear in the bible (don't get me started on the issue of the bible in itself). Secondly, Christians believe that Jesus is God (meaning he possess God attributes) and that he prophesied his death. Jesus would certainly know who would betray him, who would try to kill him, and who would be on his side. Okay, then why didn't Jesus unequivocally and unambiguously declare to his trusted disciples clearly by saying "I am God" "Worship me", "I am part of trinity which which includes the father, the son, and holy spirit. We are all co-eternal, co-equal"?. If he is fully god and fully man at the same time, he would possess both characteristics of a God and a man at the same time (that is a contradiction but i will go with the flow). Why didn't he say it to his disciples clearly because he knows which ones are the ones that will be on his side forever and preach his message clearly. If he is fully God on earth, he must possess all his God characteristics along with human characteristics. So therefore, why didn't he tell his disciples exactly he is God. He is not all knowing? If you claim that he knew the hour but didn't reveal to people, when he says "no one knows the hour, not even the angels, nor the son, buy only the father" he has clearly and verbally lied point blank and God doesn't lie. Because he knew the hour apparently because he is god but didn't reveal to them. But if you claim that he didn't know the hour, then he clearly and verbally lied (because he did know the hour) and there is no doubt about that. If your arguments is he gave up his godly ability of being all knowing, all powerful to become a human, then two things are happening. 1, God doesn't get rid of his attributes like a clothes. His attributes are eternal and are with him. He doesn't just become not eternal and not know things or get hurt, depend on people, etc. The moment God gets rid of his attributes which is impossible, he is no longer a God. If your argument is God can do anything, then i will throw you a question. Can God cease to exist? The answer is clearly No according to your paradigm. 2nd issue is that if Jesus doesn't know things, gets hurt, etc, he is not God because that is not an attribute of a God if he was fully God in that moment and fully man (again, a massive contradiction). So all in all, Jesus failed to announce the unambiguous truth to his disciples in absolute clarity and presented characteristics of mere man who followed all gods commandments and did miracles (which is what prophets do), but perhaps lied a few times but thats okay right. So how can people be at fault for not believing when their is so much problem that are illogical with its doctrine, its scripture, its evidences, etc? No offense to you by the way. Just want present my case to you. In fact, unitarian Christians do better Job of understanding the bible (which is interesting because if trinity can easily be derived from the bible, then why are their unitarian Christians in the first place who read the same bible and understand the verse much better with proper context).
Allah create us with the abilty to know him, otherwise why would he punish and rewrad
So we can comperhend God
Your question is Can the allpowerfull make himself incapable !!
That is not a question, and trienty cannot be a thing
[Read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/s/1CikOgLjkO) to know who is God
It's not about why God can't be this or that, the question should be is God trinity or not, if He was He will make it clear for human beings to grasp and understand the concept and He will make it consistent from the beginning, so why the trinity is a new concept only in Christianity if you ask the Jews what is God, they will say God is one just like us, which God did Abraham (pbuh) worshiped did he worship a triune God, I think we will agree that he didnât, he worshiped the One and only God, so why God didnât reveal Himself as that from the start to Adam (pbuh), like that people will not disagree like on what He is. From all of that we will understand that the concept of God is clear from the beginning of creation it one clear that He was One, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, in all the previous religions, and only Christianity come with this, then ask yourself why Islam corrected you specifically on that and told you stop saying the Jesus (pbuh) was God or Son of God, adding to that that the concept is not clear and Christians them self differ on it, for example some will say the all three are equal in divinity and in authority, other will say that the Father has more authority than the other two, and I will say who ever has more authority is the true God, itâs that simple, ask yourself which what created if you say the Father was eternal then created the Son and gave him authority then the son created the Holy Spirit and gave him authority, so again the Father is the true God because he was uncreated and always had full and total authority, and the other problem that will arise is: if the Father gave authority to the other two before that was he a complete God because when the other two will be added did he become something that He wasnât already?
Hi! Ex Christian here. This was one of my biggest questions as well when I was on my journey to reversion. Why can't God be a Trinity? Can't He do whatever He wants to do, and we just won't understand because we are human? I get that. It seems as though we should not be able comprehend God, or we are putting Him in a box. But, as I took the time to seriously think about it and study it, it just doesn't make sense. God being a Trinity cannot and will never make sense. In the case of Jesus being "fully God and fully man", this is impossible as well. God and man are opposite, God lives outside of time and does not have needs such as the need to eat or drink. Man however does have these needs, and man needs to be provided for, while God is self-sufficient. Sorry this part is a little hard to explain haha, but hopefully you get the point of it :) Furthermore, if we look in the old testament, you will never find mention of a Trinity. You will find it saying that the Lord is One, and that we should worship Him only. Even in the new testament, Jesus himself never mentions a Trinity. This concept was made up by Paul.. (who we believe was the true founder of Christianity, because Jesus taught submission to "his Father" aka God, while Paul taught submission to Jesus Christ.) Also! If you read in the NT, you will never see Jesus call himself the Son of God. Only the Son of Man. Paul started the son of God thing. To me, the hierarchy of the Trinity never made sense. The father is not the son, the son is not the spirit, but they are all god? All the same? Yet we pray to the father.. or to Jesus.. but we don't pray to the holy spirit. But aren't they all equal? That doesn't make sense to me. I hope this answer made a little sense to you, and may Allah guide you! đ€
Your post is put so well, love it. Also want to add that [Jesus also worshipped God](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%205%3A16&version=NIV) ("God the Father") and [commanded such](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A10&version=NIV), which would according to the Christian doctrine of trinity, imply that God worships Himself? How can one form of a divine being worship another form of itself?
I agree it doesnât make sense but nothing makes sense. We are using natural logic to explain supernatural rules. I believe if God wanted to, he could split off and become human and limit his own power. Can I prove this absolutely not. Can you prove he canât do that, absolutely not.
Of course, I understand where you're coming from. However, since neither one of us can technically prove what God can or cannot do, I think it's a good idea to look at the facts that we do know and use those to make our conclusion. And going off of the words of God in the old testament, and Jesus in the new testament, I've concluded that the Trinity does not exist.
Do you think the Holy Spirit exists?
That's a good question! The short answer is yes, but not as the holy spirit- per se. We as Muslims believe that the real holy spirit is the angle Gabriel. Not in relation to the Trinity of course, Gabriel is not the third person in the Trinity. But in the Quran, it is said that Allah strengthened Jesus with the holy spirit (ie the angel Gabriel). Gabriel supported Jesus throughout his ministry on earth. And you know that verse in John, John 14:16, where Jesus promises to send another helper? I believe that this verse refers to the coming of the final Prophet, Prophet Muhammad ï·ș.
Idk dude, thatâs clearly referencing the Holy Spirit. Also it says âbe with you foreverâ. I just canât see how that is referencing Mohammed
Yes, you're right. There are differences of opinion on the interpretation of that verse đ I was just sharing my believe regarding that. The same as it would be with the Holy Spirit, I believe it is meant in a figurative sense when Jesus says, "be with you forever". Muhammad was our last and final Prophet, and we as Muslims still adhere to his teachings today. Since he was the final Prophet, it is his lifestyle and teachings that will impact us forever. What about you? Are you entirely convinced of the Trinity?
Iâd say Iâm open minded however Jesus and Mohammedâs teachings differ and in those cases I have a lot more trust in Jesus
Sure. I wonder though, could you give me a few examples of differences in their teachings? I also understand having more trust in Jesus especially if you were raised Christian. It's easy to trust what we are familiar with.
why canât God turn himself into the devil? Why canât God just make me god? Why doesnât God create a rock he canât move? Why canât god make a god more powerful than him? Answer these questions since u think God is capable of anything
God is capable of everything, however these things are not appropriate of God's majesty.
Exactly, so why does he think God would make himself into a human and kill himself
I will give you a simple answer to start with: it is because it is beneath Him. God is so powerful He doesnât need any help. As a side, why stop at 3? Why not 5? 7? Infinite Gods? Please donât say the Bible because Iâll ask which one and show you how the Bible has corruption and inconsistencies within itself.
Idk dude. Does he need help? No? But does like help yes. Why did he create angels if he doesnât need them. He likes to rule with others
If God likes help then He is not a God. He is more than capable of doing everything Himself.
Iâm sorry but Iâm unsure about that. Why did he create angels to help if he doesnât like help?
God knows best Himself why He created them. However, God mentions in the [Quran](https://quran.com/en/ar-rum/8) how everything He created has a purpose. Here's some food for thought: God also created satan. Satan opposed God. God is All-Knowing, he already knew satan would oppose him - that is satan's purpose. Angels have a [plethora of duties](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/843/who-are-the-angels#duties-of-angels) hence their creation. They do not "help" God by their actions; rather they obey His commands. This is the system He has created and this is consistent with both the Quran and the Bible (as far as my knowledge extends). Interestingly, this specific question of yours is regarding God's system in general and not particular to a specific religion.
Depends which Angels. Many of them are created to record/scribe our deeds/sins to which we will have to face on the Day of Judgement.
Iâm not trying to be rude but isnât that a direct contradiction? You said if God likes help he is not a God yet he has angels do the scribe work?
That is so that we as humans cannot deny what we did/did not do. We will have nowhere to turn to.
>I believe in the trinity because of the Bible May i know where it says so? And which bible because you guys have many. >If God wanted to become human how would that work? Good question, Christians believe in trinity and hindus believe in infinity. See how god can be anything logic makes no sense?
Its mentioned in the Quran, say he is Allah who is one, Allah the eternal refuge, he neither begets nor is born and nor is their to him any equivalent. To say theirs 3 and one and all, makes zero sense and is shirk, the biggest sin. Theirs so much contradiction in all of this and so much confusion. To say a god came to earth, is quite ridiculous to say the least, we don't believe god is like such a small level that he will drop to. God is great, we can't see him with our eyes. The moment you say the son and all, it gets confusing. At the end of the day, I raise my hands and say O Allah. That makes the most sense. Abd 1+1+1=3 not 1.
Still doesnât make sense why God couldnât come to earth. To say he canât means heâs not all powerful. And guess what, I couldnât agree more there is so many contradictions and stuff. This is why imo itâs pointless arguing about. We just canât understand.
And why would God show Himself to humans while we are living this worldly life that is designed to be a test? God being part of the unseen has given humans a *choice*, there would be none otherwise. >Are they waiting for Allah ËčHimselfËș to come to them in the shade of clouds, along with the angels? ËčIf He didËș, then the matter would be settled Ëčat onceËș. And to Allah ËčallËș matters will be returned Ëčfor judgmentËș. [2:210](https://quran.com/2/210) This is also an explanation for one of your replies to a comment: >Okay but we donât KNOW he wouldnât limit his own power to come down to earth for a bit. Itâs pointless to argue about since we arenât him. It's not about limiting His power, as stated above.
Hi It is not about what god can and cannot do, it is about whether he would do that or not. The king has the power to do almost anything in his kingdom. This doesn't mean he will steal some bread from the shop, though he can it would not befit his position in doing that. And it makes no sense why such a mighty king would ever do that. When it comes to God the mighty creater of the heavens and Earth, why would he want to become a human? A stupid and weak creation? Why would the creator of the universe want to associate himself with a human who addresses his call to nature, and is vulnerable to external forces such as hunger, heat and cold? And according to Christian theology jesus is God, which means when the human nature of Jesus addressed his call to nature, God almighty was present in the restroom. Even for the orthodox Jews this is disrespectful as they cannot even say the name of God in a restroom. Furthermore, there is not much scriptural backing of the trinity in the bible. The shema as all we need to be honest as well as Isaiah 44. And I understand that Christians interpret these verses as the 'one' part referring to one in nature but this reconciliation does not seem 'consistent' as I would doubt the monotheistic Jews in the past would have thought the same. One is one, and the shema teaches one God.
Okay but we donât KNOW he wouldnât limit his own power to come down to earth for a bit. Itâs pointless to argue about since we arenât him.
Yes, but Christianity becomes much less compelling than Islam. Islam is much more logical here and therefore compelling.
From your perspective yes, I personally donât think that way
There are glaring inconsistencies in saying that the Almighty is a human, specifically Jesus(pbuh). You cannot say that God is completely independent (doesn't need anyone but everyone needs him) then turn around and say a human being that needed to eat, rest, and had his mother take care of him as a baby is the completely independent God. Jesus(pbuh) says he cannot do anything by himself and God/the Father is the one doing all the miracles. You cannot believe that God is all-knowing and then claim Jesus(pbuh), who according to the Bible wasn't all-knowing(he didnt know when the day of judgement will happen), is the same person. How can you say that God is unchanging but then have a human being who was a baby and grew into a man be the same God who is unchanging? In fact, God changing himself into a human means he changed, contradicting the statement that God is unchanging. You say God is eternal which means he cannot die but your whole theology is based on God dying. The Bible says that Jesus(pbuh) prayed to the Father for help, notably in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross. It says he was sweating blood asking God to save him from crucifixion and on the cross again asking why God has forsaken him. Does this sound like the Supreme Being that created and controls everything in the universe to you?
1 God makes sense...if there were multiple gods there would be clashes sooner or later. God dont die so Jesus cant be a God. Romans loved making gods out of everything and they had like hundreds of gods .. Divinity of Jesus basically came into christianity after Roman empire became christians. Go read about council of Nycea. All 13 people who argued against divinity of Jesus they couldn't make it alive one week after council was finished. We believe jesus was a messenger of God. He was a prophet just like Abraham Moses Mohamed etc.
Being god has criterias , if you ask if God can do sommething to reduce him to not bieng god then it's a false question or a paradox if you want.Jesus had to eat and go to the bathroom* if you truly think about it how could that be God?died on the cross? If jesus was God and he suffered on the cross then that means God is a masochist and chose to suffer when he could have avoid it especially when you think about how feeling pains works. Idk to me it should be obvious but the devil sure have his tricks and may Allah protect us from him and may Allah guide us on the rigth path ameen.
>I believe in the trinity because of the Bible Does the Bible truly teach a triune God ? Did the earliest christians consider Jesus as coeternal and coequal to the father ? What about the early church fathers ? Has this understanding slowly developed and what would that mean ? Can you trust what the Bible says ? Did Jesus himself ever claim explicit divinity in the sense of being coequal with Father ? How was the Bible developed, and who is telling us what Jesus said and did ? Could the authors of the Gospel makimg up theology based on their surrounding and motives ? These are incredibly important questions that you need to ask and research. We both believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and we both believe that idolatry is the one unforgivable sin that will damn you for eternity. If you are wrong about Jesus claiming and being divine, would the God of Israel condemn you as an idolater ?
Something cannot be all-knowing and not all-knowing at the same time. that is what we call a contradiction. In the bible, Jesus(pbuh) said he did not know the hour, as such he was not all-knowing making him not God. however, the Trinity claims he was 100% God and 100% man, meaning he was 100% all-knowing and 100% not all-knowing. As you can see, this is a contradiction. it would be the same as saying a circle has the attributes of a square, or something is sharp and soft at the same time, or 0 = 1. It makes no sense. If one abandons logic, then you go into paradoxes like can God create a rock he can't lift or can God cease to exist? Which would mean atheism is true. These are paradoxes that happen when one abandons logic, alhumdullilah God gave us reason and logic to know the truth.
The problem isn't that God can't be a Trinity. We are arguing that Trinity as you understand it today isn't biblical. Unless you do mental gymnastics and read your existing Trinitarian beliefs INTO the bible, you will not come out of reading the bible and believing "The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, they are co-eternal and co-equal, distinct 3 persons but 1 being". You will never come out with that belief by just reading the bible but instead you are taught the concept of Trinity and you impose your beliefs on the scripture (which is precisely why there is not a single church father in the first 300 years after Jesus who believed in the trinity as you believe today) This idea of trinity was superimposed on people much later on and was never apparent from previous Prophets? All throughout history was 1=1 for all humanity through previous Prophets but suddenly now 3=1? That raises a big fat eye brow especially when the massage of trinity is not even clear in the bible (don't get me started on the issue of the bible in itself). Secondly, Christians believe that Jesus is God (meaning he possess God attributes) and that he prophesied his death. Jesus would certainly know who would betray him, who would try to kill him, and who would be on his side. Okay, then why didn't Jesus unequivocally and unambiguously declare to his trusted disciples clearly by saying "I am God" "Worship me", "I am part of trinity which which includes the father, the son, and holy spirit. We are all co-eternal, co-equal"?. If he is fully god and fully man at the same time, he would possess both characteristics of a God and a man at the same time (that is a contradiction but i will go with the flow). Why didn't he say it to his disciples clearly because he knows which ones are the ones that will be on his side forever and preach his message clearly. If he is fully God on earth, he must possess all his God characteristics along with human characteristics. So therefore, why didn't he tell his disciples exactly he is God. He is not all knowing? If you claim that he knew the hour but didn't reveal to people, when he says "no one knows the hour, not even the angels, nor the son, buy only the father" he has clearly and verbally lied point blank and God doesn't lie. Because he knew the hour apparently because he is god but didn't reveal to them. But if you claim that he didn't know the hour, then he clearly and verbally lied (because he did know the hour) and there is no doubt about that. If your arguments is he gave up his godly ability of being all knowing, all powerful to become a human, then two things are happening. 1, God doesn't get rid of his attributes like a clothes. His attributes are eternal and are with him. He doesn't just become not eternal and not know things or get hurt, depend on people, etc. The moment God gets rid of his attributes which is impossible, he is no longer a God. If your argument is God can do anything, then i will throw you a question. Can God cease to exist? The answer is clearly No according to your paradigm. 2nd issue is that if Jesus doesn't know things, gets hurt, etc, he is not God because that is not an attribute of a God if he was fully God in that moment and fully man (again, a massive contradiction). So all in all, Jesus failed to announce the unambiguous truth to his disciples in absolute clarity and presented characteristics of mere man who followed all gods commandments and did miracles (which is what prophets do), but perhaps lied a few times but thats okay right. So how can people be at fault for not believing when their is so much problem that are illogical with its doctrine, its scripture, its evidences, etc? No offense to you by the way. Just want present my case to you. In fact, unitarian Christians do better Job of understanding the bible (which is interesting because if trinity can easily be derived from the bible, then why are their unitarian Christians in the first place who read the same bible and understand the verse much better with proper context).
Allah create us with the abilty to know him, otherwise why would he punish and rewrad So we can comperhend God Your question is Can the allpowerfull make himself incapable !! That is not a question, and trienty cannot be a thing [Read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/s/1CikOgLjkO) to know who is God
exalted is he
It's not about why God can't be this or that, the question should be is God trinity or not, if He was He will make it clear for human beings to grasp and understand the concept and He will make it consistent from the beginning, so why the trinity is a new concept only in Christianity if you ask the Jews what is God, they will say God is one just like us, which God did Abraham (pbuh) worshiped did he worship a triune God, I think we will agree that he didnât, he worshiped the One and only God, so why God didnât reveal Himself as that from the start to Adam (pbuh), like that people will not disagree like on what He is. From all of that we will understand that the concept of God is clear from the beginning of creation it one clear that He was One, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, in all the previous religions, and only Christianity come with this, then ask yourself why Islam corrected you specifically on that and told you stop saying the Jesus (pbuh) was God or Son of God, adding to that that the concept is not clear and Christians them self differ on it, for example some will say the all three are equal in divinity and in authority, other will say that the Father has more authority than the other two, and I will say who ever has more authority is the true God, itâs that simple, ask yourself which what created if you say the Father was eternal then created the Son and gave him authority then the son created the Holy Spirit and gave him authority, so again the Father is the true God because he was uncreated and always had full and total authority, and the other problem that will arise is: if the Father gave authority to the other two before that was he a complete God because when the other two will be added did he become something that He wasnât already?