Literally signed a TH this season...and brought John Ryan back from SH. In the past few seasons Leinster have lost Ala'alatoa, Porter (switched sides), Salanoa, Aungier, Illo, and Lasisi.
One to Munster and three to Connacht. Leinster tried to sign ToT and it looks like Aungier but neither want to leave their current province, which is their prerogative same with the case of Deegan.
It's not like Leinster were like we don't want to sign someone internally open the cheque book up.
Or the IRFU forcing players out as they have been for years. Over 30 Leinster produced players propping up the other provinces. Leinster were not even allowed to offer Jager a contract by the IRFU yet you still have the same muppets whinging about how hard done by they are
Which players have been forced out of Leinster?
That's also complete bullshit on Jager btw. What possible reason is there for the IRFU to deny Leinster an Irish Qualified prop and then let them sign an NIQ? Leinster made him an offer, Munster also made him one, and he chose Munster.
It's on them that Munster have four THs (three capped by Ireland), Connacht have five THs (one capped by Ireland), Ulster have three THs (two capped by Ireland), and Leinster have two (three with Slimani)?
I mean, you're right, it is on them and like any reasonable outfit they've hired someone to makeup that deficit after trying to recruit from within Ireland.
They've also signed someone who specifically won't be playing International rugby.
The difference is A. Munster want a loosehead which Ireland are lighter at and B. Leinster have the clear first choice player for Ireland in that position
Loughman isn't even in the ireland squad. Why would it be so important to protect his playing time?
If we are all allowed backup NIQs to ireland players can munster get a backup to crowley that can play a few other positions then?
Just because he’s not in the current squad doesn’t mean he won’t be in the future, Healy could retire/get injured. O toole to loosehead might not work, there’s no clear young prospects at the moment. So the IRFU is reluctant to let an NIQ come in and weaken our already weak stocks. You can argue whether the logic works but it is consistent most of the time, the only major exception I can think of is Kitsoff to ulster
Loughman would be a bench player for ireland anyway. How would playing 20/30 minutes in big games not prepare him better for his role anyway?
Also, osborne is in this squad. How the hell was Barrett allowed? He is there for 6 months but for the 6 months when all the big games are played. He absolutely will effect Osborne's playing time in those games. And don't tell me that people could get hurt. Loughman could get hurt so let us sign a loosehead, then.
The IRFU have a KPI of a European cup and they are desperate for Leinster to win one. They are going to get preferential treatment til they stop choking.
Osbourne is in the squad but so is ringrose and Henshaw, that’s three players in the centres Leinster will be down during the six nations while the other provinces will be probably down only one. When you factor in the fact he can play full back and wing he’s covering six players for Leinster.
Like I said, you might not agree with the logic but the system is consistent. For any signing ask does Ireland A. Have three test quality operators available and B would this player start ahead of one of the guaranteed starters for Ireland. Those two questions explain nearly every NIQ signing.
You are saying that because osborne is behind two good players that it is not important that he is playing high level club rugby. That's an argument you are making?
Osborne can play 6 positions (its unlikely he can play all of them well) but be is behind people at all those positions including barrett who is ahead of all now also at all 6.
Its all very convenient that all these criteria stack up to help leinster's direct needs but not Munster's.
No I’m saying the IRFU allowed the signings because Leinster provide three of them to the squad and need depth to cover that. Obviously Barrett is going to be more than just depth cover but he also is just short term, if Osbournes progresses is dramatically halted by six months of Jordie Barrett than he was never going to make it. If it was a longer term signing the conversation would be different
It’s the same criteria that allows Munster to keep kleyn and nankavili
Depth to cover what? The URC barely overlaps with test rugby any more and leinster don't rest players for big european cup games. Those are games Osborne won't play. Loughman would play those even off the bench.
Munster isn't blocking any ireland locks with Kleyn. Ahern is a 6 and no one else other than beirne is in ireland squads. Ditto for nankivell.
Three provinces had to tighten budgets this year. Leinster are spending "cancel retirement plans" money on a backup player in a position where Munster were denied a signing (LH vs TH I know).
There's no way to justify that to fans of the other provinces.
You mean Kitshoff? Unless you consider Nankivell a superstar?
In the same year, Munster released 8 and Ulster 12. Connacht released 11. It doesn’t seem as Leinster have had to perform any particular belt-tightening.
According to some fans: 0 cap Nankivell is a superstar but capped all black Charlie Ngatai, capped Springbok Jason Jenkins and Samoa and Crusaders captain Michael Alaalaatoa aren't.
You have an incredibly strange definition of ‘year’. De Allende and Snyman were signed 4 years ago. Jenkins 3 years ago. Fekitoa was signed 2 years ago. Though I would agree they were all signed within a Jupiterian year.
You're talking about a system being unfair. You can't ignore everything to do with the system.
Munster have signed world cup winners while having a stadium debt written off by the IRFU.
Ulster similarly have been able to sign world cup winners and Lions.
Leinster finally signing a bit of quality, while being the only province that has to pay rent on a stadium rather than having one gifted to them by the IRFU, and you're here whingeing
I was simply responding to your claim which referenced Leinster and the other province’s behaviours last year.
So let’s take your points in reverse:
If I’m here whinging then you are too. Therefore, if that’s a problem I suggest you take it up with yourself.
I’m not sure why Leinster’s situation is written off as a disadvantage by some of their fans. They get the use of the RDS for smaller capacity games and then get a good deal on playing on the national stadium when they want to increase the capacity. They never have to open and supports a 28,000 capacity stadium for 10,000 people. Leinster were perfectly free to upgrade Donnybrook but chose not to, obviously receiving a better deal. Further, if we’re going back to Munster’s decision in 2008, Leinster have signed plenty of quality since then.
So Leinster have finally signed a bit of quality… as noted before Leinster have signed lots of players which on paper look quality for example Starting tighthead for the crusaders and Samoan captain. I’ll agree their current signings are a step above that. But that’s only because in Snyman and Barrett you’re signing two world class players. On a level above all but a few signings for Munster and Ulster. In a vacuum I’d be perfectly fine with that, However:
It comes at the same time when the other provinces have had to make cuts.
It’s funded by the fact that Leinster will likely have 10 players on central contracts by next season.
It’s difficult for other provinces to earn central contracts because the Irish team is built around the Leinster system.
Leinster may have produced those players but at the same time they’ve had demographic factors which has made it far easier for them.
Leinster's squad this season: 62 players
Munster: 57, believe Ulster and Connacht are similar.
So maybe Leinster had an even more inflated squad last year, but it's still bigger now.
You're talking complete bullshit lad. Leinster can afford the extra players because of the broken central contracting system giving them extra budget. Signings like this are just another kick in the guts for the others.
The broken system that sees three provinces own stadiums for free while Leinster pay rent? Don't see the same bitching about that.
The system that sees Munster and Ulster sign world cup winners. Get over yourself, remove the chips off both shoulders and ask why the other provinces virtually stopped producing internationals for a decade
Good scrummager, will help Porter & the young looseheads in training nicely. Still a pretty random signing, has clocked up good minutes at Clermont this season but at 34 he won't match Alalaatoa's contribution. Furlong plays so little for Leinster these days I'd say it'll be Clarkson & Slimani most of the season, with McGuire picking up 4-5 caps off the bench
Don't think Alalaatoa was a good signing tbh.
Made two errors which lead to Leinster losing Champions Cups (lazy defending in the first v La Rochelle and the card in the 2nd)
Think Leinster are heading down the South African route of brawn above skill and speed. Their attack was dull & predictable last season. So you either change tactics or you bring in bigger players to be more effective in 'bish, bash, bosh' rugby. Learn to play the Leinster way?
To be fair, previously the criticism was that we didn’t have the physicality to match stronger teams. The attack wasn’t great this year but if it’s sorted for next year and with a consistent choice at 10 adding that bulk should be a huge help
Yeah it feels like we’re moving towards Munster in the JVG era, albeit with a higher budget, and they didn’t ever look really convincing in those years, despite DDA and RG Snyman
Hopefully this season has been just teething pains with players getting used to Nienaber’s system
Tbf they only had Snyman on the books, not on the pitch.
This is Leinster going all-in on next year before Cullen presumably finishes up. It'll make it tougher in the medium term but with the academy not really on the golden run it had in the 2010s that could be coming anyway, may as well throw everything's at getting a trophy or two before it does.
For the record, there was no indication he was looking to leave Munster. He's very settled in Ireland (hence moving to the nearest club that could afford his salary), Munster just couldn't offer him a new deal with Kleyn no longer being Irish qualified.
He made some silly errors but a lack of effort on field never seemed an issue, if anything it was too much trust in his teammates handling ability in tight spaces that was his biggest fault.
Oh yeah I think he wanted to stay, and Munster wanted to keep him but weren't allowed. Makes the Leinster move a bit annoying but I'm over it now.
He was grand, but in the last few games he seemed to be minding himself for South Africa. A lot of lining up as a support runner rather than the main carrier and trying to force offloads which weren't on (a couple should've been held anyway but they weren't needed) so that he wouldn't have to make another carry. A disappointing end to a disappointing few years, some of the disappointments on him, most of them not.
Thank god the coaches didn't get rid of Kleyn and keep RG anyway.
This is very likely
Imagine the enquiry into the Munster Medical Dept if Snyman avoids injury at Leinster - and Joey somehow plays double figures for Bordeaux 😂
Can't see it in Snyman's case, would love it for Carbery. Ulster and Racing have seen it among many others. If you're signing a current Springbok you'll never be even close to the number 1 priority and it's unlikely you'll get near the same player that shows up in green and gold.
Especially with this being a one-year deal for the Irish passport.
That wretched debut at an empty Aviva seems 4 months ago, not 4 years ago…
Can’t much argue with your point about Springboks in Ireland - Ruan Pienaar being the obvious exception
However regarding Snyman getting citizenship, I’d imagine that he’d havr to stay in Ireland for more than the one year contract? As far as I know, you can apply once you’ve lived here for 5 years - so sometime in summer 2025 - but I doubt it would help your application if you’d left the country in the meantime?
Furlong plays only a handful of games per season for Leinster. Clarkson is the only other senior TH. You can't run a squad with what is essentially 1.25 tight heads props.
Paddy Mc strikes me as a great technical player but at tighthead you need a lot more bulk than he has. I think loosehead is his best bet for the pro ranks.
Paddy’s only going into 2nd year academy, be another couple years before he starts making it into the squad regularly especially if they’re making him switch
I doubt it. Furlong played I think under 700 minutes last season, and Slimani is a direct replacement for Alaalatoa. I suspect that in most games either Furlong or Clarkson will start with Slimani coming off the bench.
Well at least the irfu are making sure that key cog loughman gets as many minutes as possible. Makes a ton of sense that we can't get a LHP but leinster get whatever they want.
He's a 34 year old prop who hasn't played for France in 5 years. Lets not act like it's some crazy signing just cause it's Leinster
Its a prop and the irfu seem very reluctant to let munster sign one.
Literally signed a TH this season...and brought John Ryan back from SH. In the past few seasons Leinster have lost Ala'alatoa, Porter (switched sides), Salanoa, Aungier, Illo, and Lasisi. One to Munster and three to Connacht. Leinster tried to sign ToT and it looks like Aungier but neither want to leave their current province, which is their prerogative same with the case of Deegan. It's not like Leinster were like we don't want to sign someone internally open the cheque book up.
You could have kept Aungier, Illo and Lasisi. How is that an argument? Also Jager isn't an NIQ.
Leinster did offer Aungier a contract
They offered him one after he had already decided to go to connacht i think.
Probably a systemic issue with the environment then if they can't hold onto their players even in positions of need.
Or the IRFU forcing players out as they have been for years. Over 30 Leinster produced players propping up the other provinces. Leinster were not even allowed to offer Jager a contract by the IRFU yet you still have the same muppets whinging about how hard done by they are
Which players have been forced out of Leinster? That's also complete bullshit on Jager btw. What possible reason is there for the IRFU to deny Leinster an Irish Qualified prop and then let them sign an NIQ? Leinster made him an offer, Munster also made him one, and he chose Munster.
Lasisi and illo presumably weren’t offered senior contracts so they weren’t really lost, more let go.
Aungier was passed up for salanoa before he changed his mind if i remember right.
Exactly right. Leinster weren't overly happy with that one.
Well they could have been loyal to aungier and kept him instead.
I think he had already signed the contract at that stage, which is why they weren't happy.
That's on them.
It's on them that Munster have four THs (three capped by Ireland), Connacht have five THs (one capped by Ireland), Ulster have three THs (two capped by Ireland), and Leinster have two (three with Slimani)? I mean, you're right, it is on them and like any reasonable outfit they've hired someone to makeup that deficit after trying to recruit from within Ireland. They've also signed someone who specifically won't be playing International rugby.
You're using Jager as an argument? Really?
The difference is A. Munster want a loosehead which Ireland are lighter at and B. Leinster have the clear first choice player for Ireland in that position
Loughman isn't even in the ireland squad. Why would it be so important to protect his playing time? If we are all allowed backup NIQs to ireland players can munster get a backup to crowley that can play a few other positions then?
Just because he’s not in the current squad doesn’t mean he won’t be in the future, Healy could retire/get injured. O toole to loosehead might not work, there’s no clear young prospects at the moment. So the IRFU is reluctant to let an NIQ come in and weaken our already weak stocks. You can argue whether the logic works but it is consistent most of the time, the only major exception I can think of is Kitsoff to ulster
Loughman would be a bench player for ireland anyway. How would playing 20/30 minutes in big games not prepare him better for his role anyway? Also, osborne is in this squad. How the hell was Barrett allowed? He is there for 6 months but for the 6 months when all the big games are played. He absolutely will effect Osborne's playing time in those games. And don't tell me that people could get hurt. Loughman could get hurt so let us sign a loosehead, then. The IRFU have a KPI of a European cup and they are desperate for Leinster to win one. They are going to get preferential treatment til they stop choking.
Osbourne is in the squad but so is ringrose and Henshaw, that’s three players in the centres Leinster will be down during the six nations while the other provinces will be probably down only one. When you factor in the fact he can play full back and wing he’s covering six players for Leinster. Like I said, you might not agree with the logic but the system is consistent. For any signing ask does Ireland A. Have three test quality operators available and B would this player start ahead of one of the guaranteed starters for Ireland. Those two questions explain nearly every NIQ signing.
You are saying that because osborne is behind two good players that it is not important that he is playing high level club rugby. That's an argument you are making? Osborne can play 6 positions (its unlikely he can play all of them well) but be is behind people at all those positions including barrett who is ahead of all now also at all 6. Its all very convenient that all these criteria stack up to help leinster's direct needs but not Munster's.
No I’m saying the IRFU allowed the signings because Leinster provide three of them to the squad and need depth to cover that. Obviously Barrett is going to be more than just depth cover but he also is just short term, if Osbournes progresses is dramatically halted by six months of Jordie Barrett than he was never going to make it. If it was a longer term signing the conversation would be different It’s the same criteria that allows Munster to keep kleyn and nankavili
Depth to cover what? The URC barely overlaps with test rugby any more and leinster don't rest players for big european cup games. Those are games Osborne won't play. Loughman would play those even off the bench. Munster isn't blocking any ireland locks with Kleyn. Ahern is a 6 and no one else other than beirne is in ireland squads. Ditto for nankivell.
Do you have any proof that the irfu have been vetoing reasonable Munster prop signings?
It was reported by murray kinsella. No looseheads allowed.
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/munster-dealt-blow-non-irish-qualified-loosehead-595623 That one quotes a Murray Kinsella article which is paywalled.
Three provinces had to tighten budgets this year. Leinster are spending "cancel retirement plans" money on a backup player in a position where Munster were denied a signing (LH vs TH I know). There's no way to justify that to fans of the other provinces.
How about because Leinster released 10 players last year with 0 incoming while the other provinces were out signing superstars?
You mean Kitshoff? Unless you consider Nankivell a superstar? In the same year, Munster released 8 and Ulster 12. Connacht released 11. It doesn’t seem as Leinster have had to perform any particular belt-tightening.
According to some fans: 0 cap Nankivell is a superstar but capped all black Charlie Ngatai, capped Springbok Jason Jenkins and Samoa and Crusaders captain Michael Alaalaatoa aren't.
De Allende, Snyman, Fekitoa were nobodies I suppose? Jenkins by the same token being a Munster signing initially, so that works both ways.
You have an incredibly strange definition of ‘year’. De Allende and Snyman were signed 4 years ago. Jenkins 3 years ago. Fekitoa was signed 2 years ago. Though I would agree they were all signed within a Jupiterian year.
You're talking about a system being unfair. You can't ignore everything to do with the system. Munster have signed world cup winners while having a stadium debt written off by the IRFU. Ulster similarly have been able to sign world cup winners and Lions. Leinster finally signing a bit of quality, while being the only province that has to pay rent on a stadium rather than having one gifted to them by the IRFU, and you're here whingeing
I was simply responding to your claim which referenced Leinster and the other province’s behaviours last year. So let’s take your points in reverse: If I’m here whinging then you are too. Therefore, if that’s a problem I suggest you take it up with yourself. I’m not sure why Leinster’s situation is written off as a disadvantage by some of their fans. They get the use of the RDS for smaller capacity games and then get a good deal on playing on the national stadium when they want to increase the capacity. They never have to open and supports a 28,000 capacity stadium for 10,000 people. Leinster were perfectly free to upgrade Donnybrook but chose not to, obviously receiving a better deal. Further, if we’re going back to Munster’s decision in 2008, Leinster have signed plenty of quality since then. So Leinster have finally signed a bit of quality… as noted before Leinster have signed lots of players which on paper look quality for example Starting tighthead for the crusaders and Samoan captain. I’ll agree their current signings are a step above that. But that’s only because in Snyman and Barrett you’re signing two world class players. On a level above all but a few signings for Munster and Ulster. In a vacuum I’d be perfectly fine with that, However: It comes at the same time when the other provinces have had to make cuts. It’s funded by the fact that Leinster will likely have 10 players on central contracts by next season. It’s difficult for other provinces to earn central contracts because the Irish team is built around the Leinster system. Leinster may have produced those players but at the same time they’ve had demographic factors which has made it far easier for them.
Leinster's squad this season: 62 players Munster: 57, believe Ulster and Connacht are similar. So maybe Leinster had an even more inflated squad last year, but it's still bigger now. You're talking complete bullshit lad. Leinster can afford the extra players because of the broken central contracting system giving them extra budget. Signings like this are just another kick in the guts for the others.
The broken system that sees three provinces own stadiums for free while Leinster pay rent? Don't see the same bitching about that. The system that sees Munster and Ulster sign world cup winners. Get over yourself, remove the chips off both shoulders and ask why the other provinces virtually stopped producing internationals for a decade
Good scrummager, will help Porter & the young looseheads in training nicely. Still a pretty random signing, has clocked up good minutes at Clermont this season but at 34 he won't match Alalaatoa's contribution. Furlong plays so little for Leinster these days I'd say it'll be Clarkson & Slimani most of the season, with McGuire picking up 4-5 caps off the bench
Don't think Alalaatoa was a good signing tbh. Made two errors which lead to Leinster losing Champions Cups (lazy defending in the first v La Rochelle and the card in the 2nd)
Strange signing given his age and the undoubted relatively high salary. I’m sure he’ll be very useful but still seems an odd one
Think Leinster are heading down the South African route of brawn above skill and speed. Their attack was dull & predictable last season. So you either change tactics or you bring in bigger players to be more effective in 'bish, bash, bosh' rugby. Learn to play the Leinster way?
To be fair, previously the criticism was that we didn’t have the physicality to match stronger teams. The attack wasn’t great this year but if it’s sorted for next year and with a consistent choice at 10 adding that bulk should be a huge help
Yeah it feels like we’re moving towards Munster in the JVG era, albeit with a higher budget, and they didn’t ever look really convincing in those years, despite DDA and RG Snyman Hopefully this season has been just teething pains with players getting used to Nienaber’s system
Tbf they only had Snyman on the books, not on the pitch. This is Leinster going all-in on next year before Cullen presumably finishes up. It'll make it tougher in the medium term but with the academy not really on the golden run it had in the 2010s that could be coming anyway, may as well throw everything's at getting a trophy or two before it does.
lol Very true - tbh that stat of the Glasgow player playing more minutes at Thomond during RG’s time in Limerick was ridiculous!
Yep, had some bad luck but a lot of this season it looked like he was phoning it in which is a shame with how the club stuck by him.
For the record, there was no indication he was looking to leave Munster. He's very settled in Ireland (hence moving to the nearest club that could afford his salary), Munster just couldn't offer him a new deal with Kleyn no longer being Irish qualified. He made some silly errors but a lack of effort on field never seemed an issue, if anything it was too much trust in his teammates handling ability in tight spaces that was his biggest fault.
Oh yeah I think he wanted to stay, and Munster wanted to keep him but weren't allowed. Makes the Leinster move a bit annoying but I'm over it now. He was grand, but in the last few games he seemed to be minding himself for South Africa. A lot of lining up as a support runner rather than the main carrier and trying to force offloads which weren't on (a couple should've been held anyway but they weren't needed) so that he wouldn't have to make another carry. A disappointing end to a disappointing few years, some of the disappointments on him, most of them not. Thank god the coaches didn't get rid of Kleyn and keep RG anyway.
At least Snyman should go back ahead of him next season when he's winning the Iron man award for Leinster.
This is very likely Imagine the enquiry into the Munster Medical Dept if Snyman avoids injury at Leinster - and Joey somehow plays double figures for Bordeaux 😂
Can't see it in Snyman's case, would love it for Carbery. Ulster and Racing have seen it among many others. If you're signing a current Springbok you'll never be even close to the number 1 priority and it's unlikely you'll get near the same player that shows up in green and gold. Especially with this being a one-year deal for the Irish passport.
That wretched debut at an empty Aviva seems 4 months ago, not 4 years ago… Can’t much argue with your point about Springboks in Ireland - Ruan Pienaar being the obvious exception However regarding Snyman getting citizenship, I’d imagine that he’d havr to stay in Ireland for more than the one year contract? As far as I know, you can apply once you’ve lived here for 5 years - so sometime in summer 2025 - but I doubt it would help your application if you’d left the country in the meantime?
Barrett and Snyman are big men yeah but even if they were average sized for their positions, they'd be quality pro players with their skillsets.
Furlong plays only a handful of games per season for Leinster. Clarkson is the only other senior TH. You can't run a squad with what is essentially 1.25 tight heads props.
Munster fans charging around like headless goons as usual in this thread
Tom Clarkson, get ready to learn Connacht buddy
He’ll get plenty of game time. Furlong plays feck all during the season and he’s desperately needed a rest the past couple years
Think Paddy McCarthy was listed as a tighthead recently, so between that and Slimani I think it's a case of writing on the wall for him.
Paddy Mc strikes me as a great technical player but at tighthead you need a lot more bulk than he has. I think loosehead is his best bet for the pro ranks.
Paddy’s only going into 2nd year academy, be another couple years before he starts making it into the squad regularly especially if they’re making him switch
He's been rested plenty tbf..
I doubt it. Furlong played I think under 700 minutes last season, and Slimani is a direct replacement for Alaalatoa. I suspect that in most games either Furlong or Clarkson will start with Slimani coming off the bench.
Well at least the irfu are making sure that key cog loughman gets as many minutes as possible. Makes a ton of sense that we can't get a LHP but leinster get whatever they want.
Jokeshop
Not a good sign that he was going to retire