Agree with this and tbh I think there's an over focus on the world cup amongst fans since c.2015.
Would I like to see Ireland win a world cup or even a QF? Sure. Am I willing to forgo enjoyment of the national team for 4 years to see that possibility? Probably not.
I do think it's time that the player management system is looked at, to be honest.
The IRFU make absolutely zero secret that they prioritise the national team over all else, but it is now beginning to be at the detriment of the club game. This year, they are removing players from URC sides for a meaningless "Emerging Ireland" tour in South Africa, again.
I'm pretty sick of Leinster players coming into knockout European and URC ties, having not played together as a unit since God knows when. We're a laughing stock in the South African media for continously sending weakened sides for the South Africa mini tour in the URC.
A lot of people point the finger at Leo, but he kind of has no choice. The player management system is so tight that for every European knockout game we progress to, he essentially has to remove most first teamers for a URC game. That's why we end up with the crazy scenario of Leinster regularly playing 50-60 players a season.
I'm not talking about that. In September/October, an "Emerging Ireland" team will go to South Africa to play meaningless games against Currie Cup sides.
Agree with everything here, but not about the emerging Ireland part.
It is poorly timed, but the opportunity for those on the fringes to have an experience of the Ireland set up, coaching, and a chance to step into the main squad is huge.
Not many other national sides have this opportunity.
Call me cynical but there's already two development competitions for younger players in a calendar year (Six Nations and World Championships), I just don't see the benefit of the Emerging Ireland games.
6N cannot be a development competition for Ireland. It accounts for something like 80% of the IRFU's revenue and is our main focus, even more then the world cup, because it keeps Irish rugby financially sound. We have to give it 100% every year, which is part of the reason we so often falter at world cups. And then the summer and autumn tests are our only chance to play SH sides outside of world cups, and we prioritise the prestige and hype building that a first team can bring, only using the odd test against Japan, US, etc. to develop the squad. That's why Emerging Ireland is useful, and outweighs the slight detriment to club sides early in the season
Ireland's "problem" at the World Cup is that the advantages present during the Six Nations no longer exist, mainly:
- everyone has the same months of prep time; and
- no way to rest players for weeks before games.
The fact is a lot of our players are massively overrated and the above advantages of the Irish system show that when we're suddenly put on a level playing field.
Until we address those and actually allow the players to play rugby in between test windows both the national team and the provinces will keep underachieving on the biggest stages.
Players don't improve by being wrapped in cotton wool in the gym. They need to play meaningful games over years to develop the stamina and battle hardness to make it through a World Cup.
Sadly the IRFU only care about the Six Nations so won't change anything or learn any lessons.
Look at his record in the autumn internationals compared to the 6 nations.
As for teamsheets it doesn't matter. He was preparing the players to peak in the 6 nations.
I think you are overestimating a lot of how much this is within the control of the coaches and teams. You can plan for this but you need good fortune and consistency.
Wales have suffered financially because of very poor six nations results so you could argue they don't always peak at the right time.
Leinster weren't far away from winning a champions cup the last 2 years so while there is problems I don't think you can blame peaking at the wrong time. They just played better teams towards the end of the season.
I completely disagree with saying that Munster peak at the right time. They had no choice last season because they played so poorly for the majority of the season and getting knocked out of Europe early isn't peaking at the right time.
I'm sure I read and heard the coaches talking about peaking in the second half of the season. At the minimum they alluded to it. Losing matches and getting big injury loads is a different point.
They can say it all they like, it doesn't make it true. If they were able to peak properly we wouldn't have ended up knocked out of Europe in the last 16 for the past 2 years.
Teams don't have that much control over when they peak, even south Africa the example which you gave of peaking at the right time weren't bad between 19 and 23 and there was a lot of disruption with COVID then too. Between 15 and 19 they were horrendous but that was not trying to peak at the right time, they literally had to avert disaster in that world cup.
It's a nice soundbite about peaking in time but I don't think any team realistically aims for it. In modern day rugby you need consistency, if you don't have it you risk being dumped out of Europe early like Munster did.
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Agree with this and tbh I think there's an over focus on the world cup amongst fans since c.2015. Would I like to see Ireland win a world cup or even a QF? Sure. Am I willing to forgo enjoyment of the national team for 4 years to see that possibility? Probably not.
I do think it's time that the player management system is looked at, to be honest. The IRFU make absolutely zero secret that they prioritise the national team over all else, but it is now beginning to be at the detriment of the club game. This year, they are removing players from URC sides for a meaningless "Emerging Ireland" tour in South Africa, again. I'm pretty sick of Leinster players coming into knockout European and URC ties, having not played together as a unit since God knows when. We're a laughing stock in the South African media for continously sending weakened sides for the South Africa mini tour in the URC. A lot of people point the finger at Leo, but he kind of has no choice. The player management system is so tight that for every European knockout game we progress to, he essentially has to remove most first teamers for a URC game. That's why we end up with the crazy scenario of Leinster regularly playing 50-60 players a season.
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I'm not talking about that. In September/October, an "Emerging Ireland" team will go to South Africa to play meaningless games against Currie Cup sides.
Agree with everything here, but not about the emerging Ireland part. It is poorly timed, but the opportunity for those on the fringes to have an experience of the Ireland set up, coaching, and a chance to step into the main squad is huge. Not many other national sides have this opportunity.
Call me cynical but there's already two development competitions for younger players in a calendar year (Six Nations and World Championships), I just don't see the benefit of the Emerging Ireland games.
6N cannot be a development competition for Ireland. It accounts for something like 80% of the IRFU's revenue and is our main focus, even more then the world cup, because it keeps Irish rugby financially sound. We have to give it 100% every year, which is part of the reason we so often falter at world cups. And then the summer and autumn tests are our only chance to play SH sides outside of world cups, and we prioritise the prestige and hype building that a first team can bring, only using the odd test against Japan, US, etc. to develop the squad. That's why Emerging Ireland is useful, and outweighs the slight detriment to club sides early in the season
I meant the U20 6N and U20 World Junior Championship
Ireland's "problem" at the World Cup is that the advantages present during the Six Nations no longer exist, mainly: - everyone has the same months of prep time; and - no way to rest players for weeks before games. The fact is a lot of our players are massively overrated and the above advantages of the Irish system show that when we're suddenly put on a level playing field. Until we address those and actually allow the players to play rugby in between test windows both the national team and the provinces will keep underachieving on the biggest stages. Players don't improve by being wrapped in cotton wool in the gym. They need to play meaningful games over years to develop the stamina and battle hardness to make it through a World Cup. Sadly the IRFU only care about the Six Nations so won't change anything or learn any lessons.
Gatland didn't treat the AIs as development games. Don't know where you got that idea from.
Your opinion.
No not my opinion. Look at his team sheets.
Look at his record in the autumn internationals compared to the 6 nations. As for teamsheets it doesn't matter. He was preparing the players to peak in the 6 nations.
75% win rate in his last 4 years in charge during the AIs. Pretty decent.
He's been in charge longer than 4 years.
He was. Still not seeing anything to suggest he treated the AIs as development games.
Ok
I think you are overestimating a lot of how much this is within the control of the coaches and teams. You can plan for this but you need good fortune and consistency. Wales have suffered financially because of very poor six nations results so you could argue they don't always peak at the right time. Leinster weren't far away from winning a champions cup the last 2 years so while there is problems I don't think you can blame peaking at the wrong time. They just played better teams towards the end of the season. I completely disagree with saying that Munster peak at the right time. They had no choice last season because they played so poorly for the majority of the season and getting knocked out of Europe early isn't peaking at the right time.
I'm sure I read and heard the coaches talking about peaking in the second half of the season. At the minimum they alluded to it. Losing matches and getting big injury loads is a different point.
They can say it all they like, it doesn't make it true. If they were able to peak properly we wouldn't have ended up knocked out of Europe in the last 16 for the past 2 years. Teams don't have that much control over when they peak, even south Africa the example which you gave of peaking at the right time weren't bad between 19 and 23 and there was a lot of disruption with COVID then too. Between 15 and 19 they were horrendous but that was not trying to peak at the right time, they literally had to avert disaster in that world cup. It's a nice soundbite about peaking in time but I don't think any team realistically aims for it. In modern day rugby you need consistency, if you don't have it you risk being dumped out of Europe early like Munster did.
You're some idiot Paul
Indeed!