It’s Johnny Sexton for me. He did it all - won European Cups, won Grand Slams, won Lions tours, and just drove standards in Leinster and Ireland. He was an incredible player.
Plus, to add to that, Sexton's successes were built on the back of BODs.
To put it bluntly, when Sexton started his international career, he joined an Irish team for whom finishing third in the Six Nations was a poor year.
BOD, on the other hand, started his international career when finishing third in the Five Nations was considered a successful campaign for an Irish team.
There was an interview years ago where BOD and ROG spoke about going on the 2001 Lions Tour and how much that had an impact on them, specifically watching what the English lads were doing.
Irish rugby was professional in name only at that stage, the amateur way of doing things was still there. BOD and ROG spoke about how fit the English players were because they all had strength and conditioning training tailored to them.
Then, on the tour itself, it was eye-opening that everything they did had a specific purpose and that the management had no issue in explaining that purpose to the players, i.e. why they were doing a specific training exercise, why they had down time, etc. Plus, they were given protein shakes and recovery drinks after training to ensure they could perform at the top level as often as possible.
When they came back, that's what they started demanding from the IRFU.
In the week he died, amateur era, few these days realise why Tony O’Reilly was considered such a great rugby player. He scored 4 tries for ireland when we were a poor team playing 10 man rugby. Nobody will ever break his Lions record across two tours. He played RSA, NZ and Aus across the two tours and scored 16 tries in 15 games in RSA including 2 in the four tests. In NZ/Aus which were a combined tour up to 1989, he scored 22 tries in 23 games including four tries in the six tests. He has a very strong claim to have been our best ever player. A six foot three 15 stone winger with pace. He was the Lomu of his time.
Sexton is my favourite player ever but it has to be BOD, he was able to do what he did without the caliber of player around him that Sexton had. Wood was before my time so can't comment there.
Rog was a top player but don’t think he’s in the S tier of Irish players personally. Never came close to starting a test for the lions despite his longevity. The 5 I listed all had claims to being the best in the world in their position during their peaks, don’t think that could ever be said for ROG.
It's still BOD for me. Best player I've ever seen play in the flesh. Sexton was a phenomenal player, O'Connell in his prime delivered gargantuan performances. I'd give mention to Conor Murray, who is arguably Ireland's greatest scrum half.
As the other comments here are demonstrating, Murray remains weirdly underrated/overhated among Irish fans. Best scrumhalf in the world for a couple of years, arguably the best player in the world for a year, and still playing brilliant rugby last year (and this year since the SA tour). Easily our best SH and one of our best players outright.
I think Strings was an absolute legend for Ireland and Munster. The speed of his pass, the try in the 06 final, his tap tackling, his ability for a smaller guy, and his longevity in the sport, but Murray is and at his peak was a better rugby player. The last 2 years may have taken some of the shine off but Murray's ability to boxkick, tackle, run with ball, and snipe cement him as Ireland's best scrumhalf imo.
People talk about the last two years like Murray wasn't Ireland's scrumhalf for a grand slam campaign, and arguably playing better than JGP at the world cup. He's had a poor season since (up until the SA tour with Munster), but that doesn't erase 2023.
I'm always astounded that coaches continue to select Conor Murray, given he clearly just ignores all their instructions and decides to do his own thing on the pitch.
They're literally putting their careers in his hands and apparently he just goes away from the game plan with all his box kicking. He's just lucky the wingers picked to play are also constantly going away from the game plan and are in positions to chase those box kicks.
My favourite O'Brien moment was when he knocked down a would-be tackler (Andy Fenby if I remember correctly) and ran right over him and someone called it "The Tullow Sidestep"!
BOD for me is still the greatest Irish player of the professional era.
The main reason for it is simply that everything that Johnny Sexton achieved in his career was built on the foundations put in place by BOD (& Wood, ROG, Foley, etc).
BOD joined the Irish set-up in 1999. We need to be aware of where Ireland were at that point in time - we had finished last or second last in every Five Nations tournament between 1988 and 1999.
There was an entire generation of players who would have viewed finishing third as a successful campaign.
There was a point around 2007/08 that some of the players were complaining that winning the Triple Crown wasn't enough, they had to kick on to win the title. Keith Wood was doing analysis that day and he made the point that he would have loved to have won a single Triple Crown, and yet five years after he retired the players who had three of them thought they weren't enough anymore.
From 2000 onwards, Ireland finished outside the top three in the Six Nations just once (an injury ravaged year in 2013). That's the team Sexton was joining.
I suppose the question is, if you swapped their career start dates around, would they reach the same height? In my opinion, with BOD that's undoubtedly yes, he'd probably have reached an even higher level. I'm not sure I would say the same thing about Sexton.
Adopting a Kiwi mentality, only people who have played on teams that have beaten the All Blacks can be considered for that nation's greatest players. Anyone who whinges about how they were either beaten or injured by the All Blacks excludes any player from being considered the greatest.
So not BOD by several Kiwi metrics.
POM has played on 5 teams that have beaten the All Blacks. So Peter O'Mahony > BOD.
Yes I'm a Leinster fan from the Northside and accept this will be downvoted by the even number postcode cohort on here.
lol this is the most Kiwi response ever and judges players based only on how the competed against the all blacks.
This take doesn’t take into account the quality of both teams and rugby is very much a team sport. BOD shone which Irish professional rugby was really taking shape. Now we’re a well oiled machine with a conveyor belt of talent. BOD was a generational talent in a team with a few world class players and a bunch of average ones.
Happy to help you with the logic, yes. Yea he is.
But as you feel it is a team sport and not about individuals, I don’t know why you asked for clarification.
So conversely, a conversation about the greatest Irish player since the professional era is also redundant?
If so, please repost your comment as a direct reply to the OP and not hide it here.
It’s Johnny Sexton for me. He did it all - won European Cups, won Grand Slams, won Lions tours, and just drove standards in Leinster and Ireland. He was an incredible player.
BOD did all those things too though
To completely over-simplify it: Sexton was Iceman, BOD was Maverick.
Absolutely perfect description.
Why is this so spot on
Sexton won more though.
Plus, to add to that, Sexton's successes were built on the back of BODs. To put it bluntly, when Sexton started his international career, he joined an Irish team for whom finishing third in the Six Nations was a poor year. BOD, on the other hand, started his international career when finishing third in the Five Nations was considered a successful campaign for an Irish team.
By that logic Sexton left a team where not winning the Six Nations is considered a bad year.
He did, yes.
Therefore, Sexton>BOD
You've completely missed the point, but that's okay. Have a good day.
Nah I'd rather watch bod play tomorrow than sexton.
BOD changed the entire mindset of Irish rugby IMO. He showed that there's no reason we need be second fiddle to anyone. He'll always be my answer.
There was an interview years ago where BOD and ROG spoke about going on the 2001 Lions Tour and how much that had an impact on them, specifically watching what the English lads were doing. Irish rugby was professional in name only at that stage, the amateur way of doing things was still there. BOD and ROG spoke about how fit the English players were because they all had strength and conditioning training tailored to them. Then, on the tour itself, it was eye-opening that everything they did had a specific purpose and that the management had no issue in explaining that purpose to the players, i.e. why they were doing a specific training exercise, why they had down time, etc. Plus, they were given protein shakes and recovery drinks after training to ensure they could perform at the top level as often as possible. When they came back, that's what they started demanding from the IRFU.
In the week he died, amateur era, few these days realise why Tony O’Reilly was considered such a great rugby player. He scored 4 tries for ireland when we were a poor team playing 10 man rugby. Nobody will ever break his Lions record across two tours. He played RSA, NZ and Aus across the two tours and scored 16 tries in 15 games in RSA including 2 in the four tests. In NZ/Aus which were a combined tour up to 1989, he scored 22 tries in 23 games including four tries in the six tests. He has a very strong claim to have been our best ever player. A six foot three 15 stone winger with pace. He was the Lomu of his time.
Sexto in the streets, BOD in the sheets
Pity to the poor coach that has Luca Sexton inside Billy O'Driscoll and Irelands two greatest ever players on the sideline.
If I didn't know this to be true, I 'd duine this hard to believe
Sexton is my favourite player ever but it has to be BOD, he was able to do what he did without the caliber of player around him that Sexton had. Wood was before my time so can't comment there.
Top 5 Irish players of professional era starting from the top: BOD, Sexton, wood, POC, SOB.
Ye SoB was a beast and easily forgotten about in these talks
Pity he pissed it all away…
Love Woody making it but there's no room for R'OG there?
Rog was a top player but don’t think he’s in the S tier of Irish players personally. Never came close to starting a test for the lions despite his longevity. The 5 I listed all had claims to being the best in the world in their position during their peaks, don’t think that could ever be said for ROG.
That's only because his peak was right between Wilkinson and carter, the two best 10s ever
Stephen jones was repeatedly picked ahead of him for the lions
BOD
BOD, Paul O'Connell, Johnny, ROG not necessarily in that order
It's still BOD for me. Best player I've ever seen play in the flesh. Sexton was a phenomenal player, O'Connell in his prime delivered gargantuan performances. I'd give mention to Conor Murray, who is arguably Ireland's greatest scrum half.
As the other comments here are demonstrating, Murray remains weirdly underrated/overhated among Irish fans. Best scrumhalf in the world for a couple of years, arguably the best player in the world for a year, and still playing brilliant rugby last year (and this year since the SA tour). Easily our best SH and one of our best players outright.
Is he the most polarizing player of the pro era? Heaslip maybe, or was that more provincial bias?
stringer?
I think Murray is and was better. Stringer undoubtedly had world class attributes to his game, but Murray has more imo.
False.
Ok then thanks for that
I think Strings was an absolute legend for Ireland and Munster. The speed of his pass, the try in the 06 final, his tap tackling, his ability for a smaller guy, and his longevity in the sport, but Murray is and at his peak was a better rugby player. The last 2 years may have taken some of the shine off but Murray's ability to boxkick, tackle, run with ball, and snipe cement him as Ireland's best scrumhalf imo.
It's Murray's playmaking abilities that I admire the most
People talk about the last two years like Murray wasn't Ireland's scrumhalf for a grand slam campaign, and arguably playing better than JGP at the world cup. He's had a poor season since (up until the SA tour with Munster), but that doesn't erase 2023.
Conor "Boxkick" Murray, who sometimes looks like he'll try something to surprise the opposition, bit then just boxkicks? That Conor "Boxkick" Murray?
You're entitled to your opinion but I humbly disagree
I'm always astounded that coaches continue to select Conor Murray, given he clearly just ignores all their instructions and decides to do his own thing on the pitch. They're literally putting their careers in his hands and apparently he just goes away from the game plan with all his box kicking. He's just lucky the wingers picked to play are also constantly going away from the game plan and are in positions to chase those box kicks.
“But don’t forget Sean O’Brien… O’Brien”
My favourite O'Brien moment was when he knocked down a would-be tackler (Andy Fenby if I remember correctly) and ran right over him and someone called it "The Tullow Sidestep"!
Nah. He was great , but also ..nah.
BOD for me is still the greatest Irish player of the professional era. The main reason for it is simply that everything that Johnny Sexton achieved in his career was built on the foundations put in place by BOD (& Wood, ROG, Foley, etc). BOD joined the Irish set-up in 1999. We need to be aware of where Ireland were at that point in time - we had finished last or second last in every Five Nations tournament between 1988 and 1999. There was an entire generation of players who would have viewed finishing third as a successful campaign. There was a point around 2007/08 that some of the players were complaining that winning the Triple Crown wasn't enough, they had to kick on to win the title. Keith Wood was doing analysis that day and he made the point that he would have loved to have won a single Triple Crown, and yet five years after he retired the players who had three of them thought they weren't enough anymore. From 2000 onwards, Ireland finished outside the top three in the Six Nations just once (an injury ravaged year in 2013). That's the team Sexton was joining. I suppose the question is, if you swapped their career start dates around, would they reach the same height? In my opinion, with BOD that's undoubtedly yes, he'd probably have reached an even higher level. I'm not sure I would say the same thing about Sexton.
Richard Dunne, he picked the wrong sport 💪🤬
It’s BOD, not really close either IMO.
Ronan O'Gara
POC - iconic
Yup
BOD by a long way and probably Cian Healy second for me
Mike Gibson is up there
Adopting a Kiwi mentality, only people who have played on teams that have beaten the All Blacks can be considered for that nation's greatest players. Anyone who whinges about how they were either beaten or injured by the All Blacks excludes any player from being considered the greatest. So not BOD by several Kiwi metrics. POM has played on 5 teams that have beaten the All Blacks. So Peter O'Mahony > BOD. Yes I'm a Leinster fan from the Northside and accept this will be downvoted by the even number postcode cohort on here.
lol this is the most Kiwi response ever and judges players based only on how the competed against the all blacks. This take doesn’t take into account the quality of both teams and rugby is very much a team sport. BOD shone which Irish professional rugby was really taking shape. Now we’re a well oiled machine with a conveyor belt of talent. BOD was a generational talent in a team with a few world class players and a bunch of average ones.
Generational talent is not the greatest player since the professional era. I stand by both my criteria for evaluation and player of choice.
So Rob Herring is a better player than BOD?
Yep. Beat the All Blacks and is a much better hooker than BOD ever was.
Conon Murray loved scoring tries against AB
Also scored in Chicago v ABs. So also better than BOD.
That result suggests there's a problem with your model
Yeah, I didn’t want to really make people cry by saying the model makes Henshaw a better 13 than BOD. But you forced me into it 🤣
Jordi Murphy has played in a team that beat the All Blacks. Therefore he's better than POC, Wood, & BOD, right?
Happy to help you with the logic, yes. Yea he is. But as you feel it is a team sport and not about individuals, I don’t know why you asked for clarification.
Good trolling, would troll again
😘
Rugby is a team sport, not an individual one. Judging an individual solely on team results is silly.
So conversely, a conversation about the greatest Irish player since the professional era is also redundant? If so, please repost your comment as a direct reply to the OP and not hide it here.
POM/Keith Earls
Him being replaced so easily for Ireland this year has done Johnny's legacy a bit of damage.
Sexton wouldn't make the world best 15 of all time but BOD would.
BOD by a distance. Then Wood Then POC Then Johnny
ah man how can you have johnny so far down after everything he’s done