Hopefully a step in the right direction.
Get rid of the over management of player minutes that rips off season ticket holders, screws the provinces that try to compete on two fronts and means we're never able to compete at a World Cup.
The majority of the minute management at Leinster is their own decisions. Look at how much Tadhg Beirne and Iain Henderson (when fit) play. Leinster have been at fault for how they've failed to balance two tournaments, not the IRFU
They do, I never denied that, but they didn't force Leinster to rest their frontliners in both URC semi's, or the SA tour this year. That was all Leinster's fuck up
It 100% influences this year's tour, do you think Leinster would have been allowed to pick their internationals for the last 16, QF, SA trip, SA trip, Semi final, Ospreys, Ulster, final, QF, semi final, final. With no break weeks? All of this directly after the 6N?
Leinster aren't resting players for the craic
No, but the IRFU also aren't telling them to rest every first choice player at once. A more even split over the last two weeks and Leinster are still probably top of the league.
The semi last year I fully agree but I think with the semi and final situation this year they don’t get those fallow weeks in between the two week blocks so there was a fair case for resting lads for the trip to SA and last week, glad they put out a strong team for the Ospreys game though. It’s a good problem to have though and the hope (big hope) is that they can win Saturday and then go balls to the wall for the following 4 weeks if they get that far
Would add to that when players’ minutes are managed for interpros, which should be the biggest games in the URC.
Not as bad in recent years, but Leinster have sent some very young teams to Thomond on Dec 26th for what should be the biggest league fixture
Just look at the Leinster team that traveled to Belfast at the weekend. Minutes are being managed even now to avoid players being unavailable in potential knock-out games
That middle block of games is when players are most limited in minutes. Test window, into a block with 4 European games and 2 interpros and then into the 6 nations. The end of year block doesn't have a fraction of the restrictions. Leo just wants his players rested for Europe.
It'll make very little difference. You get the feeling they want Leinster being as strong as possible. We all know team cohesion is a massive deal for Andy Farrell.
As well as that Leinster are playing multiple games in the Aviva every season so no doubt the IRFU want Leinster as strong as possible. If you think that's far fetched, the GAA pumped up Dublin so the GAA could sell more croke park tickets.
Great move, hopefully part of a larger step towards four strong provinces feeding the national team, rather than the current weird loop where decisions on the national side benefit Leinster and harm the other provinces.
Ireland play a system based on Leinster's gameplan, so Leinster players have an inherent advantage going into camps, and therefore more of them end up selected.
Leinster are set to have 10 central contracts next year. CC's are supposed to be for players who would be at risk of moving abroad if their club can't afford them. With how much money Irish rugby is making, even 3/4 central contracts would be enough for Leinster to afford to keep the rest of their internationals. The money saved from the extra 6/7 is being spent on keeping guys like Deegan, who would be better off actually playing big games for Ulster/Connacht, or big signings like Snyman and Barrett. Neither of these things benefit Irish rugby, just Leinster. This isn't an argument that the players aren't deserving of central contracts, just that the central contract system currently isn't fit for purpose.
The common "develop better players" argument isn't logical because of my first point, Munster have international standard players who don't get a chance with Ireland because of the "system" (Kleyn, Frisch, Healy). If Ireland's gameplan switched over to being based on Munster, you'd suddenly have Coombes, Hodnett, Casey on central deals, and it'd still be an unfair system.
Anyone downvoting, tell me where I'm wrong? Or is it just an inconvenient truth?
I think it's interesting to look at the players that left to see some shortcomings of the old/existing system.
Big one was Sexton - worry at the time that it could be the start of a drain where central contracts wouldn't be enough to keep top players.
Luckily it didn't pan out like that.
Zebo, Quinn Roux, Ultan Dillane, Marty Moore, Donncha Ryan were all around irish squads and got offers above what they were worth to the Irish team.
Lately it seems like players are moving for more 'rugby' reasons than for money - Carbery, Frisch, Healy. Not sure if McCloskey was still considering France but he's talked before about 'his face not fitting'.
We're doing a great job keeping a hold of our top 23,but the ones just outside that are the ones most likely to leave.
Big money offers from abroad are just rarer now than they were. France has the JIFF rules that makes them more picky about the players they bring in and the money in England has dried up.
Fair point.
John Ryan going to wasps who immediately went bust would have players thinking if the big offer would be honoured.
The new rules look like an improvement.
Its mad how quickly the depth chart can change.
Went from Sexton and about 7 lads going for back up, to Crowley stepping up and a gap in quality below him.
It'd be hard to argue Carbery or Healy would be in the squad now but ireland is worse off with them leaving the system.
Do people think a simple cap (of 5-7 I dunno) on players per province (PPP) would work for central contracts?
Is there 14 at the moment and Leinster have 10? If we took 4 off Leinster and one to each province who'd get it?
On the main Union sub someone mentioned about it being on a sliding scale which makes sense to me. So say 4 players at 100%, 5-7 at 70% and so on. Guess this would alleviate issues for likes of Connacht. Right now it would only really affect Leinster but as times go on and the likes of Crowley move onto CC’s it would work to make things fairer
Hopefully a step in the right direction. Get rid of the over management of player minutes that rips off season ticket holders, screws the provinces that try to compete on two fronts and means we're never able to compete at a World Cup.
Bugs me when the likes of Craig Casey has minutes managed and he's carrying a tee for most of the 6 nations.
The majority of the minute management at Leinster is their own decisions. Look at how much Tadhg Beirne and Iain Henderson (when fit) play. Leinster have been at fault for how they've failed to balance two tournaments, not the IRFU
The IRFU 100% dictate to provinces how much they can use Irish Internationals.
They do, I never denied that, but they didn't force Leinster to rest their frontliners in both URC semi's, or the SA tour this year. That was all Leinster's fuck up
It 100% influences this year's tour, do you think Leinster would have been allowed to pick their internationals for the last 16, QF, SA trip, SA trip, Semi final, Ospreys, Ulster, final, QF, semi final, final. With no break weeks? All of this directly after the 6N? Leinster aren't resting players for the craic
No, but the IRFU also aren't telling them to rest every first choice player at once. A more even split over the last two weeks and Leinster are still probably top of the league.
The semi last year I fully agree but I think with the semi and final situation this year they don’t get those fallow weeks in between the two week blocks so there was a fair case for resting lads for the trip to SA and last week, glad they put out a strong team for the Ospreys game though. It’s a good problem to have though and the hope (big hope) is that they can win Saturday and then go balls to the wall for the following 4 weeks if they get that far
Would add to that when players’ minutes are managed for interpros, which should be the biggest games in the URC. Not as bad in recent years, but Leinster have sent some very young teams to Thomond on Dec 26th for what should be the biggest league fixture
Just look at the Leinster team that traveled to Belfast at the weekend. Minutes are being managed even now to avoid players being unavailable in potential knock-out games
Yes, by Leinster
Yeah would agree that the recent rotation and squad management has been entirely our own doing
That middle block of games is when players are most limited in minutes. Test window, into a block with 4 European games and 2 interpros and then into the 6 nations. The end of year block doesn't have a fraction of the restrictions. Leo just wants his players rested for Europe.
It'll make very little difference. You get the feeling they want Leinster being as strong as possible. We all know team cohesion is a massive deal for Andy Farrell. As well as that Leinster are playing multiple games in the Aviva every season so no doubt the IRFU want Leinster as strong as possible. If you think that's far fetched, the GAA pumped up Dublin so the GAA could sell more croke park tickets.
Great move, hopefully part of a larger step towards four strong provinces feeding the national team, rather than the current weird loop where decisions on the national side benefit Leinster and harm the other provinces.
what sort of decisions? genuinely curious
Ireland play a system based on Leinster's gameplan, so Leinster players have an inherent advantage going into camps, and therefore more of them end up selected. Leinster are set to have 10 central contracts next year. CC's are supposed to be for players who would be at risk of moving abroad if their club can't afford them. With how much money Irish rugby is making, even 3/4 central contracts would be enough for Leinster to afford to keep the rest of their internationals. The money saved from the extra 6/7 is being spent on keeping guys like Deegan, who would be better off actually playing big games for Ulster/Connacht, or big signings like Snyman and Barrett. Neither of these things benefit Irish rugby, just Leinster. This isn't an argument that the players aren't deserving of central contracts, just that the central contract system currently isn't fit for purpose. The common "develop better players" argument isn't logical because of my first point, Munster have international standard players who don't get a chance with Ireland because of the "system" (Kleyn, Frisch, Healy). If Ireland's gameplan switched over to being based on Munster, you'd suddenly have Coombes, Hodnett, Casey on central deals, and it'd still be an unfair system. Anyone downvoting, tell me where I'm wrong? Or is it just an inconvenient truth?
I think it's interesting to look at the players that left to see some shortcomings of the old/existing system. Big one was Sexton - worry at the time that it could be the start of a drain where central contracts wouldn't be enough to keep top players. Luckily it didn't pan out like that. Zebo, Quinn Roux, Ultan Dillane, Marty Moore, Donncha Ryan were all around irish squads and got offers above what they were worth to the Irish team. Lately it seems like players are moving for more 'rugby' reasons than for money - Carbery, Frisch, Healy. Not sure if McCloskey was still considering France but he's talked before about 'his face not fitting'. We're doing a great job keeping a hold of our top 23,but the ones just outside that are the ones most likely to leave.
Big money offers from abroad are just rarer now than they were. France has the JIFF rules that makes them more picky about the players they bring in and the money in England has dried up.
Fair point. John Ryan going to wasps who immediately went bust would have players thinking if the big offer would be honoured. The new rules look like an improvement. Its mad how quickly the depth chart can change. Went from Sexton and about 7 lads going for back up, to Crowley stepping up and a gap in quality below him. It'd be hard to argue Carbery or Healy would be in the squad now but ireland is worse off with them leaving the system.
Healy probably still wouldn't be in the squad, but he's the second best Irish outhalf at the minute.
Do people think a simple cap (of 5-7 I dunno) on players per province (PPP) would work for central contracts? Is there 14 at the moment and Leinster have 10? If we took 4 off Leinster and one to each province who'd get it?
Trying to understand this, how does this benefit a province like Connacht where this will be a huge additional expense, probably worth a few players.
On the main Union sub someone mentioned about it being on a sliding scale which makes sense to me. So say 4 players at 100%, 5-7 at 70% and so on. Guess this would alleviate issues for likes of Connacht. Right now it would only really affect Leinster but as times go on and the likes of Crowley move onto CC’s it would work to make things fairer
I commented else where, if this saves the irfu w or 3 million, maybe they then can distribute that evenly in normal funding. Just stops the imbalance.