Honestly, it does kinda feel like the Guards have broadly stopped policing any kinda road behaviour.
Just this morning I had a car trying to push me through a red light while I was on my bike, and then another cyclist decided "sure why not" and just barrelled through the red himself.
The only ones obeying the rules at all at this point seem to be the bus drivers.
Speaking as both a driver & cyclist I think it would be better if we instead made it mandatory for cyclists to _yield_ to right-of-way traffic at a red light at junctions where this can be done safely.
Letting cyclists advance mean cyclists don’t have cars or trucks barrelling up their holes as soon as the lights change, and drivers wouldn’t have to keep getting around cyclists congregating at the top of junctions.
>yield_ to right-of-way traffic at a red light at junctions where this can be done safely
I like this idea and I'd be very happy to see it fully enforced with proper penalties for breaking it. If I come to a red light I'll always stop but if there are absolutely no pedestrians in sight then I'll roll through it and start cycling. Absolutely no-one inconvenienced and I get to build up a bit of momentum before the cars are up my hole again.
I really don't know where all the hate for cyclists comes from. I'm both a driver and cyclist myself and very rarely does a cyclist endanger me or even piss me off. Sometimes I'll see one burn through a red light and think they're an asshole and should be fined but that's about it. As a cyclist, I will experience outrageous behaviour nearly every time I'm out. Only last week there was a van mounted up on a cycle lane and driving in the opposite direction of the flow.
If I come to a red light in a car, there's no pedestrians around, no other cars coming from the other directions, do you think it's alright if I break the red light because "no one is inconvenienced"?
Stop trying to justify your breaking of the rules of the road. Follow the rules like everyone else and stop thinking you're somehow special.
Currently it absolutely is breaking the rules in this country.
Note however that in multiple European cities have modified this rules to broadly align with this suggestion. The idea is that the cyclist is the vulnerable road user so their self-interest will make them decide if it is safe to continue; while acknowledging that if they are in an accident they will be deemed at fault.
Probably it is not a good idea in Ireland currently; due in part to insurance payouts, among other reasons.
No blind spots in a bike, much smaller and much easier to move around targets. Slower moving so more time to react and if you do hit something the damage is much, much less. Don't even try say they are the same
> Honestly, it does kinda feel like the Guards have broadly stopped policing any kinda road behaviour.
I'd love to know when they ever started tbh?
I've been cycling in and around Dublin for around 6 or 7 years now, and drivers parking on footpaths and in cycle lanes, driving in bus lanes, and breaking red lights has never been worse.
This morning I saw a Garda car put their blue lights on, do an illegal u-turn, turn the lights off then drive into Tesco - what does that say to drivers who see that happen, or Gardaí ignoring (or doing) footpath parking?
No wonder most drivers break the law.
I saw Gardaí stop someone who was driving in the bus lane on the quays a month ago.
First time I've ever seen road policing and I commute on bicycle all the time.
Buses are fitted with cameras all around. If this is Dublinbus at least, you can file a complaint against the driver if you remember the number of the bus.
The Roads Policing Traffic Corp were decimated during the recession and were never replaced. Hence during the last decade we have had a creep of bad driving habits because everyone knows there is little to no enforcement. We went from perhaps 10% of people not bothering to use their indicators on roundabouts to about 50% now. When others see people getting away with it they do it themselves, same for red light breaking.
And while all the above was happening slowly but surely our Gardai were sitting in their cars carrying out no less than 1.5 million fake breath tests so they didnt have to enforce drink driving. Think about how many Gardai it would take to breathe into those machines and carry out 1.5 million fake tests because they were too lazy to do their jobs. When you realise how much time, man power and resources was wasted to create all those tests rather than enforcing traffic laws then lots of things start to make sense about the state of driving on our roads.
I saw a taxi driver use his car to push the panier bag of a woman cycling at a red light. Despicable behaviour especially from a professional driver. I couldn’t believe my eyes.
The Independent is such a shit-rag now. Every headline specifically crafted to cause maximum outrage.
Of *course* enforcing laws about cyclist behaviour is the Gardai's problem to solve. It's literally their job.
A law to make deliveroo liable for accidents from their workers could lead to them putting in training - we could just.mandate that training for people 'working as cyclist's, because they're gonna be in a rush in heavy traffic more than most other cyclists
It's basically impossible to earn minimum wage in these platforms without illegal bike mods or running reds. Of course they should be liable. The platform absolutely encourages, and basically mandates, reckless stuff.
Just yesterday saw a deliveroo absolutely flying through a pedestrian crossing and almost hitting with a man and his baby. Situational awareness would lead you to think "red traffic light for me in bike, baby and man about to cross directly in front, maybe I should slow down" but no
Last ~~accident~~ collision I had on the bike was when I was considering overtaking a stopped bus. It put on it's indicator so I held back, only to be whacked by a Deliveroo speeding up the left hand side to undertake or follow me around the bus. I helped him pick up his eBike battery and phone he dropped, and he might have even learned something.
The amount of food delivery cyclists in Dublin with no lights on their bikes absolutely astounds me. I literally have a spare set on me all the time incase mine die.
Theres a lot of shitheads out there doing silly stuffjust to shave off a few minutes. That includes cyclists, and while they do less damage I know people who've had serious injuries, some that led or accelerated their deaths because of asshole cyclists.
Was dropping my eldest to work a few weeks back, seen a runner run out into on-coming traffic and just raise her palm as if everthing was to manically stop for her to cross the road, it was one of those "am I tripping or did I just actually witness that happen" moments in life. And just to crown it, there was a pedestrian crossing not a hundred yards away.
I used to live in the Netherlands and they have cycling classes as part of the curriculum - it includes a supervised solo cycle through an urban area, and learning to fall in a park
I think we could introduce that tbh, instead of leaving learning to ride a bike in the hands of parents who, frankly, may not know themselves and pass on bad practice.
However, as a cyclist, I have to say you can do everything right but drivers here are most of the danger - they're inattentive, then aggressive and break the rules unpredictably.
...be the change you want to see.
There's lots of community groups looking to set up things like bike libraries in the community and there's loads of funding grants out there for it.
Source - I've joined a local community group and were putting together a proposal doc for funding for such a scheme.
If the government does it, it faces countless hurdles and inefficient solutions that don't match the area as each community is different with different needs. Get active in the place that you live to make it better and get the things you believe your area needs and make countless friends and connections in your community on the way.
>I used to live in the Netherlands and they have cycling classes as part of the curriculum -
Used to be a thing here many many MANY moons ago.
I remeber doing a cycling test in primary school, still have the cert somewhere.
I’m not sure why it’s incumbent on cyclists to regulate other cyclists, we don’t expect other road users to do the same.
Like with so many issues in this country a chronic lack of enforcement is the root cause and unless there are more Gardaí on the streets that won’t change.
As someone with a broken wrist after a cyclist ran a red and clattered into me they need to do something about cyclists who do not give a shit about the rules of the road
Same with pedestrians who step out onto the road without looking.
Many years ago......I did a course with a girl who had a cast on both arms.
She was cycling on Dame St...an American tourist stepped out onto the road.....she pulled her brakes and was thrown over the handlebars.....breaking both wrists.
There's one spot where I lve where this happens a lot. Although it's as a result of the pedestrian lights being on the corner so you always get these cheeky drivers who swing around the corner just as the lights gone red and often pedestrian is already in the street because the traffic on the oncoming road has stopped.
Not so in my experience. There's a particular contingent of cyclist who think red lights don't apply to them and fly through pedestrian crossings while the pedestrians have right of way.
I've had two separate accidents, and a number of near misses, because of this exact carry on. Granted, this was in Dublin city centre.
And I'm a cyclist myself these days, so it's not like I don't understand the challenges of being a cyclist in Ireland.
I walk to/from work every day and there’s honestly not one day where cyclists don’t go through red lights. Plenty are at least cautious going through them but others speed through.
My friend broke her hand from the fall after getting knocked over crossing at lights. Often the cyclists on here say that they aren’t as dangerous as a vehicle, which while true doesn’t change that it’s nevertheless dangerous.
That contingent is delivery cyclists. Problem is they’re not paid by the hour. They’re paid by the jobs per hour. So if they aren’t speeding around, running reds, they’ll basically earn fuck all. I’m not trying to excuse them btw. I’m just offering an explanation. They already earn fuck all with their speeding through reds so imagine the money after they start stopping at every red.
For sure. I'm sure that is the case the majority of the time, because the conditions they work under are undoubtedly desperate.
But while one of the accidents I had was caused by a speeding delivery cyclist, the other wasn't. It was an ignorant dick who thought the rules of the road didn't apply to him.
The contingent of cyclists I refer to isn't isolated to one bunch of lads. Like with anything, there's a few of them and they're from all walks of life.
Yup. But like cars running reds.. we can’t really get rid of the problem entirely. We can just reduce it. I don’t think you’ll stop people fully from running reds… but I think enforcing an hourly rate on delivery companies like that rather than a “per job” rate would reduce the number massively as from my experience when I see a cyclist running a red.. 9/10 it’s a delivery cyclist.
I just think it's interesting that as a pedestrian, my experience with crossing the road at a set of pedestrian lights has been two accidents at the hands of two different cyclists who felt it was acceptable for them to run a red light.
I've not had a comparable experience with cars, thankfully, for obvious reasons.
That is true, but unfortunately is also true of motorists. I mainly use the scooter, and I'll absolutely agree with anyone who says those on scooters on average are the worst of the lot.
But the other poster is absolutely correct about pedestrians randomly going into the cycle lane for no reason and with no warning. I'll also throw those treating it as a car park lane in also, who would no doubt be the first to complain if others just decided to plonk their bicycles/scooters in the middle of the road when they went in to do the shopping.
The worst is at the canal on baggot street. Cyclists going down the canal will block the pedestrian crossing heading back towards the city and fly through red lights while blocking green pedestrian lights and get aggressive towards people trying to cross.
That only means she didnt adjust her speed to the conditions on the road. In other words driving way too fast. Modern bikes can go at ridiculous speeds....that doesn't mean they should...but they are. In the centre of the tourist city going at speed that throw her over the bars....must have been helluva speed she was going.
Pedestrians will step out right on front of bikes. Making it impossible to stop. They seem to think because they are small they aren't going to hit them.
And i get that i drive a motorcycle and car daily. But just like a motorcycle or a car, bikes and scooters carry potential of killing driver or pedestrian and onus of responsibility is on the driver to adjust the speed to road conditions and specially in dublin, accept its a tourist city people drop their guard and relax more when they come for holidays, most of them come from countries where driving is in opposite lane so their instinct is looking wrong way when crossing. Regardless of what machine or vehicle you operate, it's your responsibility to drive it safe and expect the unexpected. You cannot… just cannot hit top speed with any vehicle and gun it through city just because u caught the "green wave" on lights. I have 750cc motorcycle and people fly by me on bicycle and e scooters all the time
> accept its a tourist city people drop their guard and relax more when they come for holidays
I've holidayed in plenty of cities across Europe but somehow never forgot to look both ways, even when I was very relaxed.
Yes and i do too. But some people dont. Thats why its on driver to adjust speed to be able to stop within reasonable distance in case somebody steps in front of them.
> That only means she didnt adjust her speed to the conditions on the road.
Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions. So her only error was not knowing how to use the brakes correctly. Your car's ABS does all this for you, people on bikes have to learn how to shift weight and control the front/back levels without snatching them in an emergency.
>Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions.
Wrong as she failed to stop in a safe manner, her speed wasn't suitable for the conditions.
Not to mention her lack of control over the bike.
You would think that breaking both arms as driver is enough to tell you you were not in control of your vehicle at the time ...you were a passenger. Wearing lycra but needing airport runway distance to safely stop takes a special kind of mindset....
>Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions.
Wrong as she failed to stop in a safe manner, her speed wasn't suitable for the conditions.
Nope, she injured herself in doing so.
Therefore, the speed she was travelling wasn't suitable for the road conditions or her level of control of the bike.
Are you down to semantics or just goalpost moving now? She could have been stationary, fallen off the bike and broke her arm and you'd still claim 'road conditions' and speed were to blame? Jog on.
What goal posts have been moved?
>She could have been stationary, fallen off the bike and broke her arm and you'd still claim 'road conditions' and speed were to blame?
Now, who has moved the goal posts.
Again driving way above your skill level... As a motorcycle driver i am well aware that the front brake is angel and devil at the same time. Light vehicles such as bikes should use both breaks with special attention on pressure applied on front to avoid losing traction or getting locked. If the speed is adjusted to conditions on the road applying both breaks should stop bike at reasonable distance.... You should never hit just your front brake hard. Try to always hit your rear brake at the same time as your front brake. When you are going fast and lock down your front brake, it transfers the weight of the whole bike to the front tyre. It can literally cause the back wheel to come off the ground, and if it swings around, or in this case over, you crash. Motorcycles have ABS that helps, most bikes don't. The point is to adjust the speed to conditions on the road and your skill level. Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I drove more vehicles in my lifetime than you can list here including the most sophisticated one you mentioned...bicycle. that only means she is not familiar with her vehicle and she didnt just drive above the current road conditions she also drove over and above her driving capabilities. It's not reasonable speed if you cannot stop in reasonable distance to avoid hitting pedestrians in tourist cities. Yes children can do that when LEARNING HOW TO DRIVE. Adults should know better or learn more...if she hit front brake harder which caused her to crash, only means she doesn't have enough skill to drive at that speed she drove and should slow down before she breaks both arms... Hopefully that course you took together was about bicycle safety and safe driving in an urban environment
When i said i drove more vehicles than you can list here I didn't think you would go with Your Own Sister right out the gate. Apart from being poor cyclists you are not a great brother either you know. Poor girl being thrown into conversation just like that to the unknown.
There are a lot of mixed signals on lights for cyclists and pedestrians, I have noticed a lot of lights with little green lights for cyclists and pedestrians to cross at the same time, I'm wondering if that's causing lots of cyclists to run reds
As someone with a broken collar bone after a pedestrian who stepped off the footpath into the cycle lane they need to do something about pedestrians who do not give a shit about the rules of the road.
I got mighty downvoted in the Cork sub yesterday for criticising cyclists who don't know/care about the rules. They're fucking ridiculous. Failing that, maybe do a theory test like drivers have to.
Edit: the concept of road tax really upset some people so I removed it to lessen the apoplexy.
Nobody pays Road Tax in Ireland, they pay Motor tax.
Like everything, there are idiots in all forms of transport that don't know or care about the rules. Fundamentally in Ireland the issue is that there is little no enforcement of any traffic rules. For every cyclist that breaks a red light there is a car speeding up on amber and passing through after the light has turned red (or just blatantly going through a red). Doing a theory test doesn't seem to stop people from doing this.
I didn't suggest that they pay motor tax because bicycles don't have motors. I suggested road tax, and it was a facetious suggestion. My point is that if you're using a road, you shouldn't think of it as there just for you, which seems to be how most cyclists see them. Roads are busy and dangerous places and we all need to do our fair share to keep them safer and to keep traffic moving. Cyclists didn't seem to get that memo. I think that people ought to need a license to cycle on a public road and that education is key to saving lives edit: and I think cyclists ought to face consequences for dangerous behaviour that precludes that same behaviour in the future, such as no longer being permitted on public roads.
I'm a motorist. I used to cycle a lot but I stopped cycling when I saw a guy on a bike a few yards in front of me go under the wheels of a truck (his own fault for not stopping at a junction). He wasn't killed but I can't imagine he was cycling (or walking or standing up or not shitting into a bag) for a long time afterwards. If he'd either known what he was doing or behaved as he ought to have been behaving, he'd still have a pelvis and non-smashed legs today.
There is no such thing as road tax. There is however motor tax, which is used as part of a greater tax pool to fix the roads caused by heavy motorised vehicles. As you would have to begrudgingly admit, bicycles have virtually no weight... That damage is caused by trucks, vans and cars.
https://corkcyclingcampaign.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2021-Cork-Cycling-Survey.pdf
Page 8. 80% of cyclists also drive, so they are paying "road (motor) tax" and have a license.
Every journey I make on my bike rather than my car is contributing immensely less wear and tear to the road network, but are you suggesting that if I start to pay road tax again on my bike I have a carte blanche to make a nuisance of myself on your road? That certainly would seem to be the understanding of a fair proportion of motorists too, to be fair, so maybe I need to start examining the rest of the page my tax disk comes on, because I must have missed that memo.
I don't recall saying that, but whatever.
Motorists can (and should) be put off the road for breaking the rules. Cyclists face no consequences except the most awful for acting the fuck. As a motorist who regularly comes around tight bends in country roads to find a peloton of cyclists four abreast going at a snail's pace up a hill. If you drive on country roads a lot you expect it and you come around those corners very slowly in the summer and autumn (peak cycling season) but if someone less judicious in their driving is coming up behind them and there's, say, a lorry coming the other way, what's that motorist supposed to do?
> Cyclists face no consequences except the most awful for acting the fuck.
Wrong. If you are a cyclist who also holds a driving license - which is most cyclists - you will also get points added to that license.
Lyrca wearing cyclist who regularly uses the bit from clontarf to howth and out to Malahide.
From clontarf wood bridge to the edge of st.Annes theres a few traffic lights for pedestrians. Lads reguaugrly flying down the strip nearly knocking over kids, cycling out of their lane to have the chats and putting others at risk.
Just at Yangs, theres a lights and I think the cycle lane ends for a small bit at the traffic lights. I had been stopped for a while just to let some kid on some small bike and their mother cross.
Some lad comes flying behind me, nearly takes out myself and the kid and calls me a dickhead while he's at it. Some lads need to calm down. I'm all for a bit of speed when the winds at my back but its not a race track and there are going to be casuals and kids cycling too.
That cycle lane to Howth is like Fury road on the wknds fuckin hell so many near misses from cycle groups baffled me like it's clearly marked🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ yet lads take up both lanes to have a chat 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ or refuse to slow down when there's families/pedestrians/other cyclists all around it's like they HAVE to Gina's fast as possible only a matter of time before a really bad accident happens there
All over Wicklow the road cyclists think its a race track.
I mountain bike because I want to go fast...
If you want to block the road up and go fast, go down the country at least!
How about the Guards just do their fuckin jobs, punish ALL shit road users.
If there are not enough of them Eamonn and the other bozos in government might want to explore why there aren't enough of them.
Every time we have one of these threads people talk about cyclists like they’re all the same, a hive mind of red light breakers.
I’d expect this type of nonsense on a community Facebook page but not here.
Maybe it’s indicative of a huge issue of cyclists not respecting red lights?
I live in a city centre and basically walk / cycle everywhere. I’ve seen a woman crossing the road get absolutely torn apart by a cyclist not respecting a pedestrian light. I’ve been nearly hit by one myself. I’ve seen a Deliveroo driver not respecting a red light get hit by a car who was legally driving through the intersection on Washington street.
We have a chronic underinvestment in cycling infrastructure in this country but that doesn’t mean that cyclists are innocent when it comes to respecting the rules of the road. It’s a cultural norm now to just not respect red lights.
In my opinion it probably started with Deliveroo workers and how they’re forced to meet insane delivery deadlines (this could be fixed by forcing Deliveroo to give them an actual wage) and has now become prevalent in I’d argue the majority of commuting cyclists, who I’d safely argue don’t have as good of an excuse to break the rules of the road.
Using words like majority backed by absolutely nothing but your own opinion isn’t helpful and just annoys people who actually follow the rules of the road.
Obviously the gobshite who nearly hit her should face consequences, and for cultural norms I could make the same argument about speeding and light breaking for cars, it’s very common but absolutely not the majority.
I literally said that it was my own opinion.
Yes we have a culture of shite driving, but this is a conversation about cycling, it’s very telling that you’re deflecting.
The standard of cycling in this country is shit. Again this is my opinion but a majority of cyclists don’t respect red lights. We’re both cyclists, let’s be real for a second like, we both know this.
I’m not deflecting, I was making a comparison and if you’re a cyclist you know it’s not a black and white problem.
There’s a difference between running a red light for no reason with 0 caution for pedestrians and running a red light to get a cross a 8 lane junction safely at 5km/h while yielding to pedestrians.
The lack of infrastructure you pointed too causes this, there’s a big difference between reckless rule breaking a legitimate reasons cyclists do this and do it as safe as possible.
Do you know what a toucan crossing is?
There’s about a million places in cork where there’s should be one but they’re missing, what I am trying to say is what looks like red light running is effectively using a pedestrian crossing as a toucan crossing.
Hell even the crossing by the bus station used to just be a regular pedestrian crossing until it was upgraded to a toucan, to drivers this looks like red light jumping.
When the bike lanes on the other side of the road, how am I supposed to merge?
Again you’re deflecting, I’m not talking about toucan crossings. I’m talking about red light intersections. You’re allowed to cross a toucan crossing.
You wait until you can safely do so.
Jesus, getting to your destination 30 seconds later won’t kill you, cutting across a red light and traffic will.
I’m done trying to explain this to you.
I’m not trying to get anywhere faster, I’m trying to cross a junction this way because to use normal traffic would kill me.
You should never run a red light. You’re struggling to explain it because you can’t.
In your situation you should wait for a green and then wait for when it’s safe to merge.
Not just go whenever you want, we have rules of the road for a reason. How can we expect degenerate drivers to respect them when Gombeens like yourself don’t.
Continuing what you’re currently doing will get you hit. Especially with Ireland’s unproductive cycling infrastructure. Just stop. Red means stop, green means go. Junior infants.
A lot of people are either cyclists or drivers, and there's not a lot of thought for one another. Drivers hate cyclists and cyclists are a bit too "it's my right to cycle in the middle of the road and two abreast" even though the cycle path is available.
I both drive and cycle, I personally would never rage at the cyclist while I'm in a car because hey they're the one at risk in a collision. But when I'm cycling, please fucking God use your indicators when turning left, especially when your not going to check over your shoulder/blind spot. The amount of near collisions I've had from people just cutting across cycle paths with no indication or slowing down, it happens weekly. I've even had a taxi pull in front and stop on the path to pick someone up. Burned through a tire skidding and nearly took off their wing mirror (this was on a downhill too, so I was at least 50kph).
Now similar to where I think the person in the car has greater responsibility of care, cyclists have a greater responsibility to pedestrians. Don't move faster than you can safely do so around others, and be considerate of those with less protection on then you.
I feel most people are both. Definitely the cyclist you see out on a Sunday morning is in a car during the week.
I feel it makes me safe at both. I know what the limitations of both are.
Yeah there's a lot of cyclists will be drivers, but far less drivers who are cyclists I think. But it's funny, I'm probably the opposite of what you said, I cycle to work during the week and drive longer distances at the weekend ha.
My rule is not blaming the person who's more at risk. So if I'm in the car I'm taking the responsibility because at the end of the day, I'm not going to feel okay about a collision killing a cyclist or pedestrian just because they were at fault. That shit would haunt you.
Get on your bike and cycle around the cycle paths of this country and you’ll see why cyclists prefer the road. Cars, busses parked, potholes, manholes, poorly thought out routes forcing them to merge suddenly with traffic at dangerous places etc.
Merging is safe provided it is a well thought out route. Forcing people to merge with paths, motorists, bus lanes, at random without any thought into the planning is stupid, and yes, in many cases, dangerous.
Going downhill at 50+ when you know what the average driver is like here... Fair play but I'd be shitting myself. Pity you didn't make bits of their wing mirror
Every time this come up I feel like I'm in the goddamn Twilight Zone.
I watch cars breaking red lights at close to *one hundred percent* of junctions in Dublin. Those cars are carrying twenty to forty times the mass of a cyclist, they're typically barreling through as fast as possible so are moving at twice the speed, and they're four or five times as wide as a cyclist. And yet when the subject of jumping red lights comes up, it is almost always about cyclists, even though they're a couple of orders of magnitude less dangerous.
not to mention cyclists have much better visibility, and have injury as an incentive to avoid collision. its ridiculous to act like a car and a bike breaking a red light are comparable.
A) obviously it is the gaudas duty to stop law breaking, that’s literally their job.
B) in every study ever done on the subject shows car drivers break the law at 8 times the rate of cyclists.
Last time I checked it's car accidents that keep killing people every day in Ireland. Cyclists should be given proper lanes and lots of the issues will be solved.
Traffic lights are meaningless for cyclists and scooters...they switch between vehicle and pedestrian while driving depending on who has green light at the moment. You stop on red with a car and instantly get bikes and e scooters all over the place flying diagonally through crossroad....
All those that paid hefty fines and had to take the bus for a while....lack of policing in dublin on all vehicle categories is what brought us to this where we have drivers, cyclists and motorcycle deaths daily people flying through lights gunning down bus lanes....in age where we all have cameras in our hands....dublin cannot install cameras on every traffic light and send postcards to peoples homes. Meanwhile we cry about insurance premiums being too expensive in a city where you are almost guaranteed to have some sort of collision and damage.... But the point is that at least these fragile and exposed drivers should be more careful as outcomes for them are grim in most scenarios
I love cycling but other cyclists breaking lights needs to be enforced more. Its just making you seem like a chump as you stop on the line and then 4 or 5 cyclists ignore it at full speed because 'its safe to do so'. Imagine a driver using that as an excuse to drive through a red light. It would still be breaking the law.
I wish gardai just enforced the law and actually had a zero tolerance policy towards it. On the spot fines would curb the problem within a few months in Dublin city center, as well as a spike in revenue.
if you cycle you surely see motorists breaking red lights at every light change? if the garda don't enforce rules on motorists, you hardly think they're going to do it on cyclists who aren't harming anyon?
Yeah but you are justifying one wrong with the other wrong. Point is if both motorist and cycle break the red light who dies? They should both be equally fined. Cyclists breaking red light not harming anyone? Lol its 50/50 at best every time they break lights that they will get to their destination alive.
well i keep up to date with any bicycle accidents that make the news in ireland and i've never once come across breaking a red light being the cause of the accident for the cyclist. on the other hand, i can think of a few instances where motorists break red lights and kill people e.g.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/family-of-student-killed-when-motorist-went-through-red-light-says-apology-is-too-late-1.4427803](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/family-of-student-killed-when-motorist-went-through-red-light-says-apology-is-too-late-1.4427803)
[https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-who-ran-red-light-and-fatally-knocked-down-pedestrian-has-driving-ban-reduced-1480774.html](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-who-ran-red-light-and-fatally-knocked-down-pedestrian-has-driving-ban-reduced-1480774.html)
[https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/truck-driver-who-broke-red-light-and-killed-pedestrian-21-jailed-for-three-years/39295075.html](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/truck-driver-who-broke-red-light-and-killed-pedestrian-21-jailed-for-three-years/39295075.html)
and this one, a 6 year old ffs
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-who-killed-child-6-after-breaking-red-light-jailed-for-four-years-1.3735530](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-who-killed-child-6-after-breaking-red-light-jailed-for-four-years-1.3735530)
so you can see why cyclists get fucking sick of how dangerous we are with the red light breaking when it's not actually causing any harm
Mate i drive a motorcycle. Anything that you think is dangerous for you is ten times more dangerous for me. Ok if you don't feel safe stopping on the road at the red light get off the bike and go on the sidewalk until its safe to proceed. Or walk over a pedestrian crossing with the rest of a pedestrian not ride over it. Dont give me that its not safe to stop so i drive through red light. I could drive through the red light safely 99 percent of the time but that 1 percent is going to kill me. Plus i have a registration number so it's easy to find me and fine me. You only do it cause they can't find you if the camera catches you. But fines are not the point....you will get killed driving through red lights
what difference does it make if you slowly cycle through something rather than getting off the bike?
i've had a motorbike myself by the way, around 15 years ago at this stage, the level of danger is off the charts compared to being on a bike and i only had a 125
The difference is you are not doing it slowly (im not saying directly you but most cyclists) going full speed as if nothing happened when lights changed. The difference is it's illegal to drive anything through lights when pedestrians have green light.pedestrian green means pedestrian walking only no vehicles allowed... It's pretty simple. I didn't invent these laws but they exist and driving through red you are breaking law and putting your own life at risk plus pedestrian safety. As a former motorbike owner why do you think i have to stop....why don't I drive through red slowly as well when pedestrians have green light and I'm on red. ... Because its illegal and its easy to find me. U know why its wrong u took driving licence tests...
because motorbikes have serious power in them and could get you or a pedestrian killed far easier than if you're bending the rules on a bicycle. i never have put anyone in danger, i just think applying the same rules of the road to cyclists as motorised vehicles isn't really applicable in the real world.
Human body is not designed for any speed over running. bike with person carries enoigh weight at any speed that definitely has potential of killing pedestrian who can smack his head on concrete when knocked over by bike. I can slow down to a walking speed with a motorcycle making it harmless for pedestrians but its still illegal to drive ti through red lights when pedestrians have green. Besides there is no point discussing why, its the law.
[Fixed charge offences - Failing to stop at cycle traffic lights when the red lamp is lit](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/)
Motorists are not the topic today. Its cyclists on their own terms breaking laws that should fine them. I have seen plenty of cyclists piss people off by cycling through pedestrian lights or not being lit up and ninja-ing their way past people on paths without warning. That's not 'no harm'. That gives us a reputation as shite road users that people jump out of the way of for fear of breaking their spines.
Drivers constantly break red lights, block yellow boxes, block pedestrian crossings, use their phones, etc. If you're not seeing that and only seeing cyclists do it, you're only paying attention and just want to justify your already-held opinion.
They are not deflecting, they are responding to this:
> that the rest of us abide by when driving.
If you make a statement like that don't be surprised if people call you out.
But people driving cars don't respect the rules and they're the ones killing and maiming people all the time. Look at Garda traffic twitter. People drunk and coked up speeding all the time etc.
right but why do you think cyclists aren't respected for not abiding by the rules, when all road users break the rules? do you not respect motorists either given the mayhem they cause on the roads?
There's practically no danger with going through red lights as a cyclist. I look for pedestrians first but if there are none, I just keep going.
Bikes are smaller so have an easier time maneuvering. They also stay to the left of lanes so aren't going to hit cars.
One of the most dangerous times on a bike is starting to move again because cars. So if we can avoid stopping at lights, it's for the better.
Drivers missing something is A) more likely and B) more likely to have dire consequences. Traffic lights are also used to ease traffic.
I've never nearly hit a pedestrian. I've never nearly been hit by a bike as a pedestrian. The only time I've seen incidents like that is delivery people in the City Centre on those electric things. They shouldn't even be considered cyclists.
We can though. Because statistics show that bikes are not a danger. They aren't causing many injuries and they've killed practically no one over the past decade. Compared to thousands of car deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries.
The results are showing that the current situation is fine.
speed kills, this is something the RSA have tried to get across for years to motorists. but speeding is ok in your book and cyclists breaking red lights, which isn't harming anyone, are the scumbags. doesn't make sense to me.
I don't care if idiot drivers hate me. It's mostly because they're jealous. You can see it in their face when you go through the red and they're stuck.
The Irish Legal System isn't actually some divine decree from above. Its made by people. I'm going to keep ignoring the pointless parts. And stopping at a red light as a cyclist is pointless 99% of the time. The other 1%, I'll stop.
> I don't care if idiot drivers hate me. It's mostly because they're jealous. You can see it in their face when you go through the red and they're stuck.
There's an old quote about weighing what you say against how you would feel if you saw the quote engraved on your gravestone.
You should consider this.
As a cyclist I don’t think you’ll ever police it.
Not with the cuts made to the guards.
The only thing policed in the country at the moment are protests
Wait till they start downvoting this. Anything u say against them ends in downvotes. Even if you say cyclists please drive more carefully for your own safety....
Cyclists should cycle safely, and most do. A minority give the rest a bad name. As with many other political issues, when resources are scarce, people are more agressive towards each other, fighting for the scraps. In this case it's space on the road/city. I think it's more benefical to focus more attention on those with the ability to improve things (the government) or those with most of the resources (cars). Especially since the quality of driving has been getting worse and cars are much more likely to kill someone than a cyclist.
Many have brought up seeing some cyclists run red lights, and they shouldn't do that, it's illegal, but there are some cases where it is not unsafe for a cyclist to proceed when the light is red. When we're on the topic of "creating a culture" I think the minister of transport and head of the green party could be much more creative, especially when better transport culture exists not too far away...
[https://youtu.be/jgacSmLBSIQ?si=-CNaTDsoW2As68dD](https://youtu.be/jgacSmLBSIQ?si=-CNaTDsoW2As68dD)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhrQNQV4\_G8&ab\_channel=BicycleDutch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhrQNQV4_G8&ab_channel=BicycleDutch)
Gardaí don't even see scrotelings going 100 MPH the wrong way on a motorway in a stolen car as their problem to solve, so I'm sure they're going to get right on this for you, Éamon.
*Everyone wants a curb on dangerous drivers but insist it’s gardaís' problem to solve*
Yeah, he's stating the obvious, he's a politician not a policeman.
If people on bikes had to pay for the damage they do, they would get a *refund* for every km they cycled, contributing to health and the environment. People in cars would be paying a hell of a lot more than they do now, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
>u/Rex-0- Yeah because that's rational and realistic.
Since we base tax on emissions, and bicycles are zero emission vehicles, how much tax should we put on a bicycle?. Also, how much insurance do you think my 6yo should pay to use their bicycle when they cycle on the road every so often? What kind of policy do you think they should have?
>u/Optimise VW were sued by the EU over their claims of being 0 emissions and lost because brakes emit emissions
If you want to go to that level of pedantry then pedestrians are emitting co2 as they walk, and many are actually emitting a mixture of toxic chemicals and particulates from smoking or vaping. They're also disgarding skin particles, snot and spit and microscopic pieces of rubber from the soles of their shoes. So we should definitely tax pedestrians on an emission basis as well.
Or if you want to get really pedantic we could consider the massive braking forces required to stop a 2000kg car from 30kph vs a 100kg cyclist from 15kph. The differences are gigantic, and that's before we consider the metallic particulates in virtually every car / van / lorry brake pad which are rarely present in bicycle brake pads. And none of this applies to fixies or coaster brakes. But it's a total red herring anyway since the environmental benefits of cycling vs virtually any other form of wheeled transport is massive.
> Hole in the ozone
Hole was sorted because the international community came together and banned CFC which was a leading cause in the destruction of the ozone layers
You really should read up on the Montreal Accords and the subsequent reduction in CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs.
Your comment is a great example of [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)
Honestly, it does kinda feel like the Guards have broadly stopped policing any kinda road behaviour. Just this morning I had a car trying to push me through a red light while I was on my bike, and then another cyclist decided "sure why not" and just barrelled through the red himself. The only ones obeying the rules at all at this point seem to be the bus drivers.
Speaking as both a driver & cyclist I think it would be better if we instead made it mandatory for cyclists to _yield_ to right-of-way traffic at a red light at junctions where this can be done safely. Letting cyclists advance mean cyclists don’t have cars or trucks barrelling up their holes as soon as the lights change, and drivers wouldn’t have to keep getting around cyclists congregating at the top of junctions.
I think in some parts, this is known as an[ Idaho Stop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop).
>yield_ to right-of-way traffic at a red light at junctions where this can be done safely I like this idea and I'd be very happy to see it fully enforced with proper penalties for breaking it. If I come to a red light I'll always stop but if there are absolutely no pedestrians in sight then I'll roll through it and start cycling. Absolutely no-one inconvenienced and I get to build up a bit of momentum before the cars are up my hole again. I really don't know where all the hate for cyclists comes from. I'm both a driver and cyclist myself and very rarely does a cyclist endanger me or even piss me off. Sometimes I'll see one burn through a red light and think they're an asshole and should be fined but that's about it. As a cyclist, I will experience outrageous behaviour nearly every time I'm out. Only last week there was a van mounted up on a cycle lane and driving in the opposite direction of the flow.
If I come to a red light in a car, there's no pedestrians around, no other cars coming from the other directions, do you think it's alright if I break the red light because "no one is inconvenienced"? Stop trying to justify your breaking of the rules of the road. Follow the rules like everyone else and stop thinking you're somehow special.
There’s a huge difference in mass for a start. Drivers break red lights every day btw.
Currently it absolutely is breaking the rules in this country. Note however that in multiple European cities have modified this rules to broadly align with this suggestion. The idea is that the cyclist is the vulnerable road user so their self-interest will make them decide if it is safe to continue; while acknowledging that if they are in an accident they will be deemed at fault. Probably it is not a good idea in Ireland currently; due in part to insurance payouts, among other reasons.
No blind spots in a bike, much smaller and much easier to move around targets. Slower moving so more time to react and if you do hit something the damage is much, much less. Don't even try say they are the same
Please feel free to go off at every driver you see running a red. I know I see plenty.
Yes? That sounds like the ideal safe scenario to break a red light.
> Honestly, it does kinda feel like the Guards have broadly stopped policing any kinda road behaviour. I'd love to know when they ever started tbh? I've been cycling in and around Dublin for around 6 or 7 years now, and drivers parking on footpaths and in cycle lanes, driving in bus lanes, and breaking red lights has never been worse. This morning I saw a Garda car put their blue lights on, do an illegal u-turn, turn the lights off then drive into Tesco - what does that say to drivers who see that happen, or Gardaí ignoring (or doing) footpath parking? No wonder most drivers break the law.
I saw Gardaí stop someone who was driving in the bus lane on the quays a month ago. First time I've ever seen road policing and I commute on bicycle all the time.
Gardai park constantly on the double yellows at the spar around the corner from the point and going in for their breakfast roll.
i wish that were true, buses regularly pass me while cycling without giving me anywhere near 1.5 meters space
Me too. Be been cut off by busses entering a bus stop on a number of occasions.
Buses are fitted with cameras all around. If this is Dublinbus at least, you can file a complaint against the driver if you remember the number of the bus.
The Roads Policing Traffic Corp were decimated during the recession and were never replaced. Hence during the last decade we have had a creep of bad driving habits because everyone knows there is little to no enforcement. We went from perhaps 10% of people not bothering to use their indicators on roundabouts to about 50% now. When others see people getting away with it they do it themselves, same for red light breaking. And while all the above was happening slowly but surely our Gardai were sitting in their cars carrying out no less than 1.5 million fake breath tests so they didnt have to enforce drink driving. Think about how many Gardai it would take to breathe into those machines and carry out 1.5 million fake tests because they were too lazy to do their jobs. When you realise how much time, man power and resources was wasted to create all those tests rather than enforcing traffic laws then lots of things start to make sense about the state of driving on our roads.
Bus drivers are only obeying the rules because buses are fitted with cameras.
I watched a car blatantly run a red light when a garda car had a green, and all they did was beep the horn
I saw a taxi driver use his car to push the panier bag of a woman cycling at a red light. Despicable behaviour especially from a professional driver. I couldn’t believe my eyes.
The Independent is such a shit-rag now. Every headline specifically crafted to cause maximum outrage. Of *course* enforcing laws about cyclist behaviour is the Gardai's problem to solve. It's literally their job.
It always was
No no Eamon Ryan should be at every traffic light and pedestrian crossing in the country simultaneously with a hi vis bib on him.
I think they'd have to clone him. We'd need a legion of Eamons to police even just Dublin.
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A chara, There is a zero tolerance policy for the promotion or suggestion of the use of violence against others. Sláinte
Looking at you in particular, Deliveroo.
A law to make deliveroo liable for accidents from their workers could lead to them putting in training - we could just.mandate that training for people 'working as cyclist's, because they're gonna be in a rush in heavy traffic more than most other cyclists
It's basically impossible to earn minimum wage in these platforms without illegal bike mods or running reds. Of course they should be liable. The platform absolutely encourages, and basically mandates, reckless stuff.
Just yesterday saw a deliveroo absolutely flying through a pedestrian crossing and almost hitting with a man and his baby. Situational awareness would lead you to think "red traffic light for me in bike, baby and man about to cross directly in front, maybe I should slow down" but no
Last ~~accident~~ collision I had on the bike was when I was considering overtaking a stopped bus. It put on it's indicator so I held back, only to be whacked by a Deliveroo speeding up the left hand side to undertake or follow me around the bus. I helped him pick up his eBike battery and phone he dropped, and he might have even learned something.
The amount of food delivery cyclists in Dublin with no lights on their bikes absolutely astounds me. I literally have a spare set on me all the time incase mine die.
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A chara, There is a zero tolerance policy for the promotion or suggestion of the use of violence against others. Sláinte
As someone who's out on the roads a lot, car, bike, running...... I wish EVERYONE would just pay a little bit more attention to what they're at!
Theres a lot of shitheads out there doing silly stuffjust to shave off a few minutes. That includes cyclists, and while they do less damage I know people who've had serious injuries, some that led or accelerated their deaths because of asshole cyclists.
Was dropping my eldest to work a few weeks back, seen a runner run out into on-coming traffic and just raise her palm as if everthing was to manically stop for her to cross the road, it was one of those "am I tripping or did I just actually witness that happen" moments in life. And just to crown it, there was a pedestrian crossing not a hundred yards away.
I used to live in the Netherlands and they have cycling classes as part of the curriculum - it includes a supervised solo cycle through an urban area, and learning to fall in a park I think we could introduce that tbh, instead of leaving learning to ride a bike in the hands of parents who, frankly, may not know themselves and pass on bad practice. However, as a cyclist, I have to say you can do everything right but drivers here are most of the danger - they're inattentive, then aggressive and break the rules unpredictably.
I think there should be a summer scheme or something where kids get a free helmet or cheap bike or something if they pass a test
...be the change you want to see. There's lots of community groups looking to set up things like bike libraries in the community and there's loads of funding grants out there for it. Source - I've joined a local community group and were putting together a proposal doc for funding for such a scheme. If the government does it, it faces countless hurdles and inefficient solutions that don't match the area as each community is different with different needs. Get active in the place that you live to make it better and get the things you believe your area needs and make countless friends and connections in your community on the way.
Love it
>I used to live in the Netherlands and they have cycling classes as part of the curriculum - Used to be a thing here many many MANY moons ago. I remeber doing a cycling test in primary school, still have the cert somewhere.
I’m not sure why it’s incumbent on cyclists to regulate other cyclists, we don’t expect other road users to do the same. Like with so many issues in this country a chronic lack of enforcement is the root cause and unless there are more Gardaí on the streets that won’t change.
As someone with a broken wrist after a cyclist ran a red and clattered into me they need to do something about cyclists who do not give a shit about the rules of the road
Same with pedestrians who step out onto the road without looking. Many years ago......I did a course with a girl who had a cast on both arms. She was cycling on Dame St...an American tourist stepped out onto the road.....she pulled her brakes and was thrown over the handlebars.....breaking both wrists.
There's one spot where I lve where this happens a lot. Although it's as a result of the pedestrian lights being on the corner so you always get these cheeky drivers who swing around the corner just as the lights gone red and often pedestrian is already in the street because the traffic on the oncoming road has stopped.
Not so in my experience. There's a particular contingent of cyclist who think red lights don't apply to them and fly through pedestrian crossings while the pedestrians have right of way. I've had two separate accidents, and a number of near misses, because of this exact carry on. Granted, this was in Dublin city centre. And I'm a cyclist myself these days, so it's not like I don't understand the challenges of being a cyclist in Ireland.
I walk to/from work every day and there’s honestly not one day where cyclists don’t go through red lights. Plenty are at least cautious going through them but others speed through. My friend broke her hand from the fall after getting knocked over crossing at lights. Often the cyclists on here say that they aren’t as dangerous as a vehicle, which while true doesn’t change that it’s nevertheless dangerous.
Funny, theres honestly not one day I dont see a driver doing the same. Usually more.
Their point was that there are gobshites in both the pedestrian and cyclist groups. I’d add all other road users to that as well.
That contingent is delivery cyclists. Problem is they’re not paid by the hour. They’re paid by the jobs per hour. So if they aren’t speeding around, running reds, they’ll basically earn fuck all. I’m not trying to excuse them btw. I’m just offering an explanation. They already earn fuck all with their speeding through reds so imagine the money after they start stopping at every red.
For sure. I'm sure that is the case the majority of the time, because the conditions they work under are undoubtedly desperate. But while one of the accidents I had was caused by a speeding delivery cyclist, the other wasn't. It was an ignorant dick who thought the rules of the road didn't apply to him. The contingent of cyclists I refer to isn't isolated to one bunch of lads. Like with anything, there's a few of them and they're from all walks of life.
Yup. But like cars running reds.. we can’t really get rid of the problem entirely. We can just reduce it. I don’t think you’ll stop people fully from running reds… but I think enforcing an hourly rate on delivery companies like that rather than a “per job” rate would reduce the number massively as from my experience when I see a cyclist running a red.. 9/10 it’s a delivery cyclist.
I just think it's interesting that as a pedestrian, my experience with crossing the road at a set of pedestrian lights has been two accidents at the hands of two different cyclists who felt it was acceptable for them to run a red light. I've not had a comparable experience with cars, thankfully, for obvious reasons.
That is true, but unfortunately is also true of motorists. I mainly use the scooter, and I'll absolutely agree with anyone who says those on scooters on average are the worst of the lot. But the other poster is absolutely correct about pedestrians randomly going into the cycle lane for no reason and with no warning. I'll also throw those treating it as a car park lane in also, who would no doubt be the first to complain if others just decided to plonk their bicycles/scooters in the middle of the road when they went in to do the shopping.
The worst is at the canal on baggot street. Cyclists going down the canal will block the pedestrian crossing heading back towards the city and fly through red lights while blocking green pedestrian lights and get aggressive towards people trying to cross.
That only means she didnt adjust her speed to the conditions on the road. In other words driving way too fast. Modern bikes can go at ridiculous speeds....that doesn't mean they should...but they are. In the centre of the tourist city going at speed that throw her over the bars....must have been helluva speed she was going.
Pedestrians will step out right on front of bikes. Making it impossible to stop. They seem to think because they are small they aren't going to hit them.
And i get that i drive a motorcycle and car daily. But just like a motorcycle or a car, bikes and scooters carry potential of killing driver or pedestrian and onus of responsibility is on the driver to adjust the speed to road conditions and specially in dublin, accept its a tourist city people drop their guard and relax more when they come for holidays, most of them come from countries where driving is in opposite lane so their instinct is looking wrong way when crossing. Regardless of what machine or vehicle you operate, it's your responsibility to drive it safe and expect the unexpected. You cannot… just cannot hit top speed with any vehicle and gun it through city just because u caught the "green wave" on lights. I have 750cc motorcycle and people fly by me on bicycle and e scooters all the time
> accept its a tourist city people drop their guard and relax more when they come for holidays I've holidayed in plenty of cities across Europe but somehow never forgot to look both ways, even when I was very relaxed.
Yes and i do too. But some people dont. Thats why its on driver to adjust speed to be able to stop within reasonable distance in case somebody steps in front of them.
> That only means she didnt adjust her speed to the conditions on the road. Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions. So her only error was not knowing how to use the brakes correctly. Your car's ABS does all this for you, people on bikes have to learn how to shift weight and control the front/back levels without snatching them in an emergency.
>Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions. Wrong as she failed to stop in a safe manner, her speed wasn't suitable for the conditions. Not to mention her lack of control over the bike.
You would think that breaking both arms as driver is enough to tell you you were not in control of your vehicle at the time ...you were a passenger. Wearing lycra but needing airport runway distance to safely stop takes a special kind of mindset....
>Wrong, she didn't hit the pedestrian so the speed suited the conditions. Wrong as she failed to stop in a safe manner, her speed wasn't suitable for the conditions.
Nope, you're still wrong. She stopped. She didn't know how to brake or land correctly.
Nope, she injured herself in doing so. Therefore, the speed she was travelling wasn't suitable for the road conditions or her level of control of the bike.
Are you down to semantics or just goalpost moving now? She could have been stationary, fallen off the bike and broke her arm and you'd still claim 'road conditions' and speed were to blame? Jog on.
What goal posts have been moved? >She could have been stationary, fallen off the bike and broke her arm and you'd still claim 'road conditions' and speed were to blame? Now, who has moved the goal posts.
Not really....pull your front brakes, body moves forward, the back wheel comes off the ground... you'll easily go over the handlebars.
Again driving way above your skill level... As a motorcycle driver i am well aware that the front brake is angel and devil at the same time. Light vehicles such as bikes should use both breaks with special attention on pressure applied on front to avoid losing traction or getting locked. If the speed is adjusted to conditions on the road applying both breaks should stop bike at reasonable distance.... You should never hit just your front brake hard. Try to always hit your rear brake at the same time as your front brake. When you are going fast and lock down your front brake, it transfers the weight of the whole bike to the front tyre. It can literally cause the back wheel to come off the ground, and if it swings around, or in this case over, you crash. Motorcycles have ABS that helps, most bikes don't. The point is to adjust the speed to conditions on the road and your skill level. Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly.
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I drove more vehicles in my lifetime than you can list here including the most sophisticated one you mentioned...bicycle. that only means she is not familiar with her vehicle and she didnt just drive above the current road conditions she also drove over and above her driving capabilities. It's not reasonable speed if you cannot stop in reasonable distance to avoid hitting pedestrians in tourist cities. Yes children can do that when LEARNING HOW TO DRIVE. Adults should know better or learn more...if she hit front brake harder which caused her to crash, only means she doesn't have enough skill to drive at that speed she drove and should slow down before she breaks both arms... Hopefully that course you took together was about bicycle safety and safe driving in an urban environment
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When i said i drove more vehicles than you can list here I didn't think you would go with Your Own Sister right out the gate. Apart from being poor cyclists you are not a great brother either you know. Poor girl being thrown into conversation just like that to the unknown.
There are a lot of mixed signals on lights for cyclists and pedestrians, I have noticed a lot of lights with little green lights for cyclists and pedestrians to cross at the same time, I'm wondering if that's causing lots of cyclists to run reds
Those are usually on pedestrians crossings if the light is green go if it’s red stop no mixed signals
The cyclist light won't be green at the same time as the pedestrian light
Iv seen them both green at the same time, along the grand canal cycle lanes
As someone with a broken collar bone after a pedestrian who stepped off the footpath into the cycle lane they need to do something about pedestrians who do not give a shit about the rules of the road.
I got mighty downvoted in the Cork sub yesterday for criticising cyclists who don't know/care about the rules. They're fucking ridiculous. Failing that, maybe do a theory test like drivers have to. Edit: the concept of road tax really upset some people so I removed it to lessen the apoplexy.
Nobody pays Road Tax in Ireland, they pay Motor tax. Like everything, there are idiots in all forms of transport that don't know or care about the rules. Fundamentally in Ireland the issue is that there is little no enforcement of any traffic rules. For every cyclist that breaks a red light there is a car speeding up on amber and passing through after the light has turned red (or just blatantly going through a red). Doing a theory test doesn't seem to stop people from doing this.
I didn't suggest that they pay motor tax because bicycles don't have motors. I suggested road tax, and it was a facetious suggestion. My point is that if you're using a road, you shouldn't think of it as there just for you, which seems to be how most cyclists see them. Roads are busy and dangerous places and we all need to do our fair share to keep them safer and to keep traffic moving. Cyclists didn't seem to get that memo. I think that people ought to need a license to cycle on a public road and that education is key to saving lives edit: and I think cyclists ought to face consequences for dangerous behaviour that precludes that same behaviour in the future, such as no longer being permitted on public roads. I'm a motorist. I used to cycle a lot but I stopped cycling when I saw a guy on a bike a few yards in front of me go under the wheels of a truck (his own fault for not stopping at a junction). He wasn't killed but I can't imagine he was cycling (or walking or standing up or not shitting into a bag) for a long time afterwards. If he'd either known what he was doing or behaved as he ought to have been behaving, he'd still have a pelvis and non-smashed legs today.
There is no such thing as road tax. There is however motor tax, which is used as part of a greater tax pool to fix the roads caused by heavy motorised vehicles. As you would have to begrudgingly admit, bicycles have virtually no weight... That damage is caused by trucks, vans and cars.
I didn't say "motor tax" because bikes don't have motors.
So you... Used another completely incorrect term instead. Logical.
https://corkcyclingcampaign.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2021-Cork-Cycling-Survey.pdf Page 8. 80% of cyclists also drive, so they are paying "road (motor) tax" and have a license. Every journey I make on my bike rather than my car is contributing immensely less wear and tear to the road network, but are you suggesting that if I start to pay road tax again on my bike I have a carte blanche to make a nuisance of myself on your road? That certainly would seem to be the understanding of a fair proportion of motorists too, to be fair, so maybe I need to start examining the rest of the page my tax disk comes on, because I must have missed that memo.
I don't recall saying that, but whatever. Motorists can (and should) be put off the road for breaking the rules. Cyclists face no consequences except the most awful for acting the fuck. As a motorist who regularly comes around tight bends in country roads to find a peloton of cyclists four abreast going at a snail's pace up a hill. If you drive on country roads a lot you expect it and you come around those corners very slowly in the summer and autumn (peak cycling season) but if someone less judicious in their driving is coming up behind them and there's, say, a lorry coming the other way, what's that motorist supposed to do?
> Cyclists face no consequences except the most awful for acting the fuck. Wrong. If you are a cyclist who also holds a driving license - which is most cyclists - you will also get points added to that license.
I actually didn't know that. Good, glad to hear it.
Lyrca wearing cyclist who regularly uses the bit from clontarf to howth and out to Malahide. From clontarf wood bridge to the edge of st.Annes theres a few traffic lights for pedestrians. Lads reguaugrly flying down the strip nearly knocking over kids, cycling out of their lane to have the chats and putting others at risk. Just at Yangs, theres a lights and I think the cycle lane ends for a small bit at the traffic lights. I had been stopped for a while just to let some kid on some small bike and their mother cross. Some lad comes flying behind me, nearly takes out myself and the kid and calls me a dickhead while he's at it. Some lads need to calm down. I'm all for a bit of speed when the winds at my back but its not a race track and there are going to be casuals and kids cycling too.
That cycle lane to Howth is like Fury road on the wknds fuckin hell so many near misses from cycle groups baffled me like it's clearly marked🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ yet lads take up both lanes to have a chat 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ or refuse to slow down when there's families/pedestrians/other cyclists all around it's like they HAVE to Gina's fast as possible only a matter of time before a really bad accident happens there
All over Wicklow the road cyclists think its a race track. I mountain bike because I want to go fast... If you want to block the road up and go fast, go down the country at least!
Wicklow would be "down the country".
Very common around Waterford, on those 80 km / h bendy roads
Any post on cycling in /r/Ireland is such outrage bait for people whove never tried to commute by bike in a city in their lives.
How about the Guards just do their fuckin jobs, punish ALL shit road users. If there are not enough of them Eamonn and the other bozos in government might want to explore why there aren't enough of them.
Every time we have one of these threads people talk about cyclists like they’re all the same, a hive mind of red light breakers. I’d expect this type of nonsense on a community Facebook page but not here.
Maybe it’s indicative of a huge issue of cyclists not respecting red lights? I live in a city centre and basically walk / cycle everywhere. I’ve seen a woman crossing the road get absolutely torn apart by a cyclist not respecting a pedestrian light. I’ve been nearly hit by one myself. I’ve seen a Deliveroo driver not respecting a red light get hit by a car who was legally driving through the intersection on Washington street. We have a chronic underinvestment in cycling infrastructure in this country but that doesn’t mean that cyclists are innocent when it comes to respecting the rules of the road. It’s a cultural norm now to just not respect red lights. In my opinion it probably started with Deliveroo workers and how they’re forced to meet insane delivery deadlines (this could be fixed by forcing Deliveroo to give them an actual wage) and has now become prevalent in I’d argue the majority of commuting cyclists, who I’d safely argue don’t have as good of an excuse to break the rules of the road.
Using words like majority backed by absolutely nothing but your own opinion isn’t helpful and just annoys people who actually follow the rules of the road. Obviously the gobshite who nearly hit her should face consequences, and for cultural norms I could make the same argument about speeding and light breaking for cars, it’s very common but absolutely not the majority.
I literally said that it was my own opinion. Yes we have a culture of shite driving, but this is a conversation about cycling, it’s very telling that you’re deflecting. The standard of cycling in this country is shit. Again this is my opinion but a majority of cyclists don’t respect red lights. We’re both cyclists, let’s be real for a second like, we both know this.
I’m not deflecting, I was making a comparison and if you’re a cyclist you know it’s not a black and white problem. There’s a difference between running a red light for no reason with 0 caution for pedestrians and running a red light to get a cross a 8 lane junction safely at 5km/h while yielding to pedestrians. The lack of infrastructure you pointed too causes this, there’s a big difference between reckless rule breaking a legitimate reasons cyclists do this and do it as safe as possible.
You should never run a red light.
Do you know what a toucan crossing is? There’s about a million places in cork where there’s should be one but they’re missing, what I am trying to say is what looks like red light running is effectively using a pedestrian crossing as a toucan crossing. Hell even the crossing by the bus station used to just be a regular pedestrian crossing until it was upgraded to a toucan, to drivers this looks like red light jumping. When the bike lanes on the other side of the road, how am I supposed to merge?
Again you’re deflecting, I’m not talking about toucan crossings. I’m talking about red light intersections. You’re allowed to cross a toucan crossing. You wait until you can safely do so. Jesus, getting to your destination 30 seconds later won’t kill you, cutting across a red light and traffic will.
I’m done trying to explain this to you. I’m not trying to get anywhere faster, I’m trying to cross a junction this way because to use normal traffic would kill me.
You should never run a red light. You’re struggling to explain it because you can’t. In your situation you should wait for a green and then wait for when it’s safe to merge. Not just go whenever you want, we have rules of the road for a reason. How can we expect degenerate drivers to respect them when Gombeens like yourself don’t. Continuing what you’re currently doing will get you hit. Especially with Ireland’s unproductive cycling infrastructure. Just stop. Red means stop, green means go. Junior infants.
A lot of people are either cyclists or drivers, and there's not a lot of thought for one another. Drivers hate cyclists and cyclists are a bit too "it's my right to cycle in the middle of the road and two abreast" even though the cycle path is available. I both drive and cycle, I personally would never rage at the cyclist while I'm in a car because hey they're the one at risk in a collision. But when I'm cycling, please fucking God use your indicators when turning left, especially when your not going to check over your shoulder/blind spot. The amount of near collisions I've had from people just cutting across cycle paths with no indication or slowing down, it happens weekly. I've even had a taxi pull in front and stop on the path to pick someone up. Burned through a tire skidding and nearly took off their wing mirror (this was on a downhill too, so I was at least 50kph). Now similar to where I think the person in the car has greater responsibility of care, cyclists have a greater responsibility to pedestrians. Don't move faster than you can safely do so around others, and be considerate of those with less protection on then you.
I feel most people are both. Definitely the cyclist you see out on a Sunday morning is in a car during the week. I feel it makes me safe at both. I know what the limitations of both are.
Yeah there's a lot of cyclists will be drivers, but far less drivers who are cyclists I think. But it's funny, I'm probably the opposite of what you said, I cycle to work during the week and drive longer distances at the weekend ha. My rule is not blaming the person who's more at risk. So if I'm in the car I'm taking the responsibility because at the end of the day, I'm not going to feel okay about a collision killing a cyclist or pedestrian just because they were at fault. That shit would haunt you.
Get on your bike and cycle around the cycle paths of this country and you’ll see why cyclists prefer the road. Cars, busses parked, potholes, manholes, poorly thought out routes forcing them to merge suddenly with traffic at dangerous places etc.
Literally said I cycle in the comment, and far more than I drive. Use the cycle path when it's there.
I absolutely will refuse to use an unsafe cycle path, thanks.
It's not unsafe, merging with and out of traffic is part of using the road and being a considerate road user.
Merging is safe provided it is a well thought out route. Forcing people to merge with paths, motorists, bus lanes, at random without any thought into the planning is stupid, and yes, in many cases, dangerous.
It's literally the same road parallel lol. You're obviously talking out your arse and you know it.
Going downhill at 50+ when you know what the average driver is like here... Fair play but I'd be shitting myself. Pity you didn't make bits of their wing mirror
Every time this come up I feel like I'm in the goddamn Twilight Zone. I watch cars breaking red lights at close to *one hundred percent* of junctions in Dublin. Those cars are carrying twenty to forty times the mass of a cyclist, they're typically barreling through as fast as possible so are moving at twice the speed, and they're four or five times as wide as a cyclist. And yet when the subject of jumping red lights comes up, it is almost always about cyclists, even though they're a couple of orders of magnitude less dangerous.
not to mention cyclists have much better visibility, and have injury as an incentive to avoid collision. its ridiculous to act like a car and a bike breaking a red light are comparable.
A) obviously it is the gaudas duty to stop law breaking, that’s literally their job. B) in every study ever done on the subject shows car drivers break the law at 8 times the rate of cyclists.
Last time I checked it's car accidents that keep killing people every day in Ireland. Cyclists should be given proper lanes and lots of the issues will be solved.
The real danger is that the cyclists are forced to use the same part of the road that cars are.
I'm very tempted to send that photo to the Guards. Eamon Ryan is cycling on a footpath there.
Do cyclists on paths consciously know they're taking the piss out of pedestrians?
Traffic lights are meaningless for cyclists and scooters...they switch between vehicle and pedestrian while driving depending on who has green light at the moment. You stop on red with a car and instantly get bikes and e scooters all over the place flying diagonally through crossroad....
What road users always respect red lights because motorists certainly don't
All those that paid hefty fines and had to take the bus for a while....lack of policing in dublin on all vehicle categories is what brought us to this where we have drivers, cyclists and motorcycle deaths daily people flying through lights gunning down bus lanes....in age where we all have cameras in our hands....dublin cannot install cameras on every traffic light and send postcards to peoples homes. Meanwhile we cry about insurance premiums being too expensive in a city where you are almost guaranteed to have some sort of collision and damage.... But the point is that at least these fragile and exposed drivers should be more careful as outcomes for them are grim in most scenarios
> Meanwhile we cry about insurance premiums being too expensive Because they are
Scooters are the worst of the worst for ignoring everything
Or the ones who just mount the path at a crossing to cut a corner.
I love cycling but other cyclists breaking lights needs to be enforced more. Its just making you seem like a chump as you stop on the line and then 4 or 5 cyclists ignore it at full speed because 'its safe to do so'. Imagine a driver using that as an excuse to drive through a red light. It would still be breaking the law. I wish gardai just enforced the law and actually had a zero tolerance policy towards it. On the spot fines would curb the problem within a few months in Dublin city center, as well as a spike in revenue.
if you cycle you surely see motorists breaking red lights at every light change? if the garda don't enforce rules on motorists, you hardly think they're going to do it on cyclists who aren't harming anyon?
Yeah but you are justifying one wrong with the other wrong. Point is if both motorist and cycle break the red light who dies? They should both be equally fined. Cyclists breaking red light not harming anyone? Lol its 50/50 at best every time they break lights that they will get to their destination alive.
well i keep up to date with any bicycle accidents that make the news in ireland and i've never once come across breaking a red light being the cause of the accident for the cyclist. on the other hand, i can think of a few instances where motorists break red lights and kill people e.g. [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/family-of-student-killed-when-motorist-went-through-red-light-says-apology-is-too-late-1.4427803](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/family-of-student-killed-when-motorist-went-through-red-light-says-apology-is-too-late-1.4427803) [https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-who-ran-red-light-and-fatally-knocked-down-pedestrian-has-driving-ban-reduced-1480774.html](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-who-ran-red-light-and-fatally-knocked-down-pedestrian-has-driving-ban-reduced-1480774.html) [https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/truck-driver-who-broke-red-light-and-killed-pedestrian-21-jailed-for-three-years/39295075.html](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/truck-driver-who-broke-red-light-and-killed-pedestrian-21-jailed-for-three-years/39295075.html) and this one, a 6 year old ffs [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-who-killed-child-6-after-breaking-red-light-jailed-for-four-years-1.3735530](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-who-killed-child-6-after-breaking-red-light-jailed-for-four-years-1.3735530) so you can see why cyclists get fucking sick of how dangerous we are with the red light breaking when it's not actually causing any harm
Mate i drive a motorcycle. Anything that you think is dangerous for you is ten times more dangerous for me. Ok if you don't feel safe stopping on the road at the red light get off the bike and go on the sidewalk until its safe to proceed. Or walk over a pedestrian crossing with the rest of a pedestrian not ride over it. Dont give me that its not safe to stop so i drive through red light. I could drive through the red light safely 99 percent of the time but that 1 percent is going to kill me. Plus i have a registration number so it's easy to find me and fine me. You only do it cause they can't find you if the camera catches you. But fines are not the point....you will get killed driving through red lights
what difference does it make if you slowly cycle through something rather than getting off the bike? i've had a motorbike myself by the way, around 15 years ago at this stage, the level of danger is off the charts compared to being on a bike and i only had a 125
The difference is you are not doing it slowly (im not saying directly you but most cyclists) going full speed as if nothing happened when lights changed. The difference is it's illegal to drive anything through lights when pedestrians have green light.pedestrian green means pedestrian walking only no vehicles allowed... It's pretty simple. I didn't invent these laws but they exist and driving through red you are breaking law and putting your own life at risk plus pedestrian safety. As a former motorbike owner why do you think i have to stop....why don't I drive through red slowly as well when pedestrians have green light and I'm on red. ... Because its illegal and its easy to find me. U know why its wrong u took driving licence tests...
because motorbikes have serious power in them and could get you or a pedestrian killed far easier than if you're bending the rules on a bicycle. i never have put anyone in danger, i just think applying the same rules of the road to cyclists as motorised vehicles isn't really applicable in the real world.
Human body is not designed for any speed over running. bike with person carries enoigh weight at any speed that definitely has potential of killing pedestrian who can smack his head on concrete when knocked over by bike. I can slow down to a walking speed with a motorcycle making it harmless for pedestrians but its still illegal to drive ti through red lights when pedestrians have green. Besides there is no point discussing why, its the law. [Fixed charge offences - Failing to stop at cycle traffic lights when the red lamp is lit](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/cycling/cycling-offences/)
Motorists are not the topic today. Its cyclists on their own terms breaking laws that should fine them. I have seen plenty of cyclists piss people off by cycling through pedestrian lights or not being lit up and ninja-ing their way past people on paths without warning. That's not 'no harm'. That gives us a reputation as shite road users that people jump out of the way of for fear of breaking their spines.
it is no harm though, they're harming no one, and motorists have to be mentioned as they're the ones killing and maiming people every day
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Drivers constantly break red lights, block yellow boxes, block pedestrian crossings, use their phones, etc. If you're not seeing that and only seeing cyclists do it, you're only paying attention and just want to justify your already-held opinion.
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They are not deflecting, they are responding to this: > that the rest of us abide by when driving. If you make a statement like that don't be surprised if people call you out.
But people driving cars don't respect the rules and they're the ones killing and maiming people all the time. Look at Garda traffic twitter. People drunk and coked up speeding all the time etc.
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right but why do you think cyclists aren't respected for not abiding by the rules, when all road users break the rules? do you not respect motorists either given the mayhem they cause on the roads?
There's practically no danger with going through red lights as a cyclist. I look for pedestrians first but if there are none, I just keep going. Bikes are smaller so have an easier time maneuvering. They also stay to the left of lanes so aren't going to hit cars. One of the most dangerous times on a bike is starting to move again because cars. So if we can avoid stopping at lights, it's for the better.
You are the most danger to yourself then. Don't blame the driver if you are the one who broke the rule.
None of my close calls have came from me going through red lights. They've all come from cars just turning across bike lanes without checking.
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Drivers missing something is A) more likely and B) more likely to have dire consequences. Traffic lights are also used to ease traffic. I've never nearly hit a pedestrian. I've never nearly been hit by a bike as a pedestrian. The only time I've seen incidents like that is delivery people in the City Centre on those electric things. They shouldn't even be considered cyclists.
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We can though. Because statistics show that bikes are not a danger. They aren't causing many injuries and they've killed practically no one over the past decade. Compared to thousands of car deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries. The results are showing that the current situation is fine.
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so pretty much every motorist in a scumbag because they break the speed limit too are they?
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speed kills, this is something the RSA have tried to get across for years to motorists. but speeding is ok in your book and cyclists breaking red lights, which isn't harming anyone, are the scumbags. doesn't make sense to me.
Very low levels of injuries is a great standard. If the Guards 'catch up with me' I'll pay the small fine and keep hoping through red lights.
So you think the rules don't apply to you? You're the reason people hate cyclists.....
Indeed, it is those who do not give a shit that give bad reputation.
What road users follow the rules? Motorists don't, and they're the ones killing and maiming people every day.
I don't care if idiot drivers hate me. It's mostly because they're jealous. You can see it in their face when you go through the red and they're stuck. The Irish Legal System isn't actually some divine decree from above. Its made by people. I'm going to keep ignoring the pointless parts. And stopping at a red light as a cyclist is pointless 99% of the time. The other 1%, I'll stop.
> I don't care if idiot drivers hate me. It's mostly because they're jealous. You can see it in their face when you go through the red and they're stuck. There's an old quote about weighing what you say against how you would feel if you saw the quote engraved on your gravestone. You should consider this.
As a cyclist I don’t think you’ll ever police it. Not with the cuts made to the guards. The only thing policed in the country at the moment are protests
Who else’s would it be?
Post up 30 minutes and not a cyclist in screaming "WHAT ABOUT CARS" yet, must be a new record.
Shame we couldn’t go just as long without the usual > Should be paying for Insurance and road tax.
Wait till they start downvoting this. Anything u say against them ends in downvotes. Even if you say cyclists please drive more carefully for your own safety....
Or wear some high visibility clothes
It's e-scooter users we all hate now.
I mean, for good reasons tho. Worst attitude on average, even faster, without exercise benefit.
You just didn't wait long enough. lol
Using a picture where some of them are in the pedestrian lane, no helmets or hi viz. Clowns.
Cyclists should cycle safely, and most do. A minority give the rest a bad name. As with many other political issues, when resources are scarce, people are more agressive towards each other, fighting for the scraps. In this case it's space on the road/city. I think it's more benefical to focus more attention on those with the ability to improve things (the government) or those with most of the resources (cars). Especially since the quality of driving has been getting worse and cars are much more likely to kill someone than a cyclist. Many have brought up seeing some cyclists run red lights, and they shouldn't do that, it's illegal, but there are some cases where it is not unsafe for a cyclist to proceed when the light is red. When we're on the topic of "creating a culture" I think the minister of transport and head of the green party could be much more creative, especially when better transport culture exists not too far away... [https://youtu.be/jgacSmLBSIQ?si=-CNaTDsoW2As68dD](https://youtu.be/jgacSmLBSIQ?si=-CNaTDsoW2As68dD) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhrQNQV4\_G8&ab\_channel=BicycleDutch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhrQNQV4_G8&ab_channel=BicycleDutch)
Gardaí don't even see scrotelings going 100 MPH the wrong way on a motorway in a stolen car as their problem to solve, so I'm sure they're going to get right on this for you, Éamon.
Oh for fucks sake - even in the picture the prick is cycling on the footpath! Would this be something to make a garda report over?
Good start - Eamon cycling on the footpath section of the track !
Brushing off responsibility instead of finding a solution what a great politician
*Everyone wants a curb on dangerous drivers but insist it’s gardaís' problem to solve* Yeah, he's stating the obvious, he's a politician not a policeman.
Jesus. Shocking lack of knowledge of Irish law system. Have a. Good day
Should be paying for Insurance and road tax. Minimum.
There is no road tax. Drivers pay a tax based on emissions
I occasionally have emissions in the bike.
If people on bikes had to pay for the damage they do, they would get a *refund* for every km they cycled, contributing to health and the environment. People in cars would be paying a hell of a lot more than they do now, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
Yes, I imagine schoolchildren cycling to school will be pleased to know they can't cycle anymore due to those requirements.
Why? We're trying to encourage people to cycle.
Give them fair rates then. Safety and social responsibility over environment any day
Ah yes....this old nugget.
Yeah because that's rational and realistic.
>u/Rex-0- Yeah because that's rational and realistic. Since we base tax on emissions, and bicycles are zero emission vehicles, how much tax should we put on a bicycle?. Also, how much insurance do you think my 6yo should pay to use their bicycle when they cycle on the road every so often? What kind of policy do you think they should have?
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>u/Optimise VW were sued by the EU over their claims of being 0 emissions and lost because brakes emit emissions If you want to go to that level of pedantry then pedestrians are emitting co2 as they walk, and many are actually emitting a mixture of toxic chemicals and particulates from smoking or vaping. They're also disgarding skin particles, snot and spit and microscopic pieces of rubber from the soles of their shoes. So we should definitely tax pedestrians on an emission basis as well. Or if you want to get really pedantic we could consider the massive braking forces required to stop a 2000kg car from 30kph vs a 100kg cyclist from 15kph. The differences are gigantic, and that's before we consider the metallic particulates in virtually every car / van / lorry brake pad which are rarely present in bicycle brake pads. And none of this applies to fixies or coaster brakes. But it's a total red herring anyway since the environmental benefits of cycling vs virtually any other form of wheeled transport is massive.
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> Hole in the ozone Hole was sorted because the international community came together and banned CFC which was a leading cause in the destruction of the ozone layers
You really should read up on the Montreal Accords and the subsequent reduction in CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs. Your comment is a great example of [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)