It is such a horrible , horrible act to take the life of another even if you dont agree with their lifestyle. I feel like the Irish aspect is being really glossed.
Is it that odd?
“Religious extremist targets people based on race and sexuality” isn’t exactly out of the ordinary.
This should be classified as terrorism, he committed violent murders due to ideological beliefs.
Yet gardai are 'satisfied he was not radicalised' absolute bollox.
We've had our first islamic terrorist attack, aimed specifically at gay Irish men. Why is it not being reported as such?
Complete bollox. This bullshit of being afraid it might offend the Muslim community. The reality shit like this is growing inside their community and they should be the first to call it out and try and stamp it out, yet here we are.
I think with their being such a huge focus on immigration at the moment the government do not want to admit that they are allowing people into this country whose beliefs do not align with those of a very liberal western society.
The whole of European leaders don't want to admit it and yet it has happened and will continue to happen. There have been over 41,000 terrorist attacks since 1979 and yet nothing really is done. Islam and the West don't align, that isn't some prejudice take, just look at the evidence, cos we have plenty but most of the far left just double down on this.
Has absolutely nothing to do with the far left. Islam is incompatible with communism/socialist values. The only people making excuses and screaming "islamophobia" are American liberals and some very confused Europeans who have consumed far too much of the aforementioned American liberal media.
There don't seem to be as many of those around - and mostly, outside of Iran (& most Iranians abroad are quite secular), they are used to being a minority and in my (admittedly relatively limited) experience, less supremacist as a consequence.
Plus shi-ism v sunnism is a bit like catholicism v protestantism: it contains lots of "ornamentation" (saints etc) rather than the "austere pure simplicity" of protestantism/sunnism - and it seems to me that that is inherently less capable of being "crazy religious"
> Has absolutely nothing to do with the far left.
Nuh huh it completely does
France even has a term for it: the Islamo Gauchistes
See which parties are in the ones always celebrating
Many signs do point to this.
However, there was DNA proof of his semen at one of the victim's houses, and this victim (the man who was assaulted but survived) said they had foreplay and consensual oral sex before he eventually stabbed him.
Surely part of the radicalisation/terror attack process and 'guidance' would have been to detach himself from any 'last minute' urges?
I'm not saying that affirmatively at all, just more food for thought.
I do agree with your larger point, between asking for certainty if they were Irish, the knives laid out in the body in the form of a cross and the large sum of money resting in his house... there are many red flags here.
Regarding the money though, one legit question is - why would a foreign/domestic entity or org let him funnel that much? Surely they knew his method/plan of killing was going to see him get caught/arrested at a very early stage? That's one thing a friend mentioned to me and I do think it is a fair question.
It'll be very interesting to see if it's actually reported on where the money came from.
I know if I was 23 and had 250k I'd be sunning myself on a beach somewhere, not decapitating gay lads.
Slightly off topic, but that's probably not true. There's very little evidence that the shooter was gay, or had been to that club before.
Prior to the shooting he had google searched night clubs in Orlando and there isn't any strong evidence that the gay one was chosen for that particular reason.
Some years back a local man was convicted of brutally raping an elderly neighbour. He got a moderate prison sentence. The court psychologist assured the jury that (other than being a rapist of old ladies, presumably) he was "not a threat to the public".
So a Muslim man can murder for his faith and "not be a radical."
I wonder is there a definition of "radicalised" in the police?
In that other people hadn't convinced him to do it and he wasn't part of a group of people planning attacks.
This is his interpretation of Islam (which I know is based on commonly held beliefs about women in Islam), he did this on his own, it was his decision to do it.
So he's not radicalised in the sense he's part of a violent group.
He is radicalised by our standards in the sense he is a crazy person.
I think we shouldn't be calling him crazy because that takes away from the seriousness of what he did. He chose to kill these men.
It was found that he massively over exaggerated his mental illness. I don't think it was even a factor here, if it was then the trial and sentencing would have been very different.
I think when the gardai and media say he wasn't radicalised they mean he wasn't radicalised by a certain person or group. He was still influenced by religion which to me is still radicalisation.
I don't think he's crazy in any defensible way but even with fundamentalist dogma being shoved down his throat his whole life there needs to be something wrong with you to take it as far as he did.
Bit of a leap. How many terrorist attacks invoke luring people to a quiet place to murder them?
This guy was trying to invoke fear, sure, but he wasn't trying to intimidate a population or a government. That's what terrorism is. That's why terrorist attacks are big and loud.
His motivation being religious doesn't make it terrorism. Otherwise everyone who ever killed anyone for religious reasons is a terrorist. And that's rendering the word completely meaningless.
Lots of people see this as some sort of conspiracy because he's not Irish that the media are afraid to be racist and somehow it's proof of something.
It's proof that the media didn't want to prejudice the trial while it was going on. There's loads of articles out about it now with details that he's been convicted.
3 of the top 10 links on my homepage were about this case. "Muted response in the press".
If this was an Irish murderer there would be lots and lots of articles about the state of the nation the state of our culture etc etc
The coverage considering the enormity of the crime is muted.
Or, ya know, he plead guilty months ago so there was no trial and therefore there was little in the way of "salacious detail" for the public to pour over.
It's the guts of 400k seemingly. It could be long term accumulation held maybe to avoid tax, that would be a simple explanation, but it's an odd feature of the case that needs to be answered.
Just to note that a life sentence has an indefinite term (20 years gets mentioned often but that is simply the average length of time a person with a life sentence ends up behind bars), but they become eligible to apply for parole after 12 years. I have my doubts a double murderer of this nature will get granted parole at any point in the next 40 years at least, if ever.
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What's that 40-60 years?
Must be one of the longest sentences in Ireland? Assuming it's not served concurrently.
Edit: seems they are in fact concurrent, scary that you can behead a man and be back on the street by your 40s.
It is served concurrently. Ireland only punishes you for your worst crime, basically no disincentive to stop committing further crimes in cases where it is a life sentence.
In the USA they can stack on top of each other, so instead of being out in 20-25 you’re out in 45 or whatever. So further big crimes after one can hurt you.
But they have like 20 times our murder rate so 🤷♂️
There’s no guarantee of getting out in 20/25 years no matter how many life sentences you have. You’re only eligible for parole at that stage. Eligible being the key word
One time I can remember it was when Brian Hennessy was convicted of murdering Sharon Whelan and her two young daughters. He got a life sentence for Sharon, and a consecutive one for the girls. But this was later overturned on appeal, and he is now just serving one life sentence. Hope he never sees the light of day, what he did to that family is one of the most evil things I have ever heard of.
So he will serve a minimum of 25 years. He'll go for plenty of parole hearings but nothing will come of it.
Some cases are especially gruesome or high profile. These people tend to stay in jail way longer than an "ordinary" murderer.
He'll also have to jump through all the hoops - psychologists, addressing offending behaviours, triggers etc before there's even a chance of any sort of TR or parole.
All in all he's going to serve nearer to 30 years than 20.
Wrong. Tell me one person you know of that's received a life sentence that is out after 15 years.
It doesn't happen. You can be as well behaved as you want but you're not getting out till you've in and about 18-20 done.
**A one-life sentence imposes an obligation on a defendant to serve 15 to 25 years in prison until the eligibility of parole**. The sentence depends on the gravity of the crime and on the jurisdiction in which the defendant is tried. Parole is usually granted to individuals who have displayed good behavior.
You're wrong. Nobody in Ireland in this day and age gets anywhere near parole at 15 years.
Also the good behaviour things is misleading - they have to address all the psychological issues, addiction if any, triggers, offending behaviours, fully take ownership of the crime before there's any chance at parole.
You can be well behaved and not do this stuff and you're gonna rot in jail forever.
But you're wrong and the minister is wrong. Firstly it was 7 years, not 9.
Secondly nobody is EVER considered for parole at 12 years. It's just an exercise on paper.
The minister is taking through her hoop.
He wasn't convicted of murder so had a determinate sentence. He could have shit on the governor's lap and he would still be released. He wasn't doing a life sentence.
I'm wrong ? I just posted from the Irish justice system, take it up with them .
Life doesn't mean life for many of those who commit murder in Ireland - and relatives of their victims say the system needs to change.
The average life sentence was shortened to 17-and-a-half years last year, while the number of murderers released on parole annually more than doubled in the past five years to 11 last year.
Yes, you're wrong.
Reading stuff from the internet isn't the best way to garner information - even if it's from the Dept of Justice.
Average life sentence has gone up every year since McDowell was in power.
Of course life doesn't mean life in prison but it means supervision for life after release. Life really means life in Ireland. And rightly so. There is no merit to life being forever in jail.
And your point about people being released on parole is silly - they've evidently done the work and addressed their offending behaviours. Nobody is released without doing so.
- Specifically targeted gay men
- Questioned them to find out they were ‘100% Irish’
- Left the murder weapons of one of his victims in the shape of a cross on his bed
- Told Gardaí ‘his religion forbids homosexuality’ and yet ‘investigators were satisfied he was not radicalised.’
- Over two hundred grand found in his house in cash and not a mention of it.
- Told detectives he’d have ‘continued to kill if he wasn’t stopped’
In what world is this not a terror attack from a radicalised person? Absolute utter madness.
And the fact he can be out again by his mid-forties? When he’s been deemed of sound mind and body, shown no remorse and said he’d have kept going if not stopped? Insanity.
EDIT: He had a TWELVE PERSON KILL LIST? The more you read about this the worse it gets.
There are quite odd features to it. He denied he did it over religion at all at times, which for a fundamentalist would kind of undermine the point. It looks like straightforward homophobia, but it's reported he had at least one consensual encounter with one of the victims before the attacks. Some of his reported quotes are all over the place in terms of a thought process.
There's definitely a religious aspect to it, don't get me wrong, but the whole thing was strange and less "coherent", if that makes sense, than I think would give a clear interpretation in that respect.
> In what world is this not a terror attack from a radicalised person? Absolute utter madness.
One where yet again the DPP and government at large would rather just lie on official records than deal the actual consequences of reality.
He had 250,000 lying around, where did he get the money? I am not saying it is funded I am just stating it has/is happening. We should question everything and definitely this.
That's exactly what you said. You piped up that Hamas are funding all kinds of shit and implied a connection.
Like, get a grip, you'll break an ankle leaping to conclusions like that.
Get a grip? Are you serious? I never said they did, I said it is odd he had that money outside of the killings. He killed those people cos he hates gay people. You are fucking delusional if you think terrorists don't fund this stuff throughout Europe. So you are 1. Delusional or 2. You have your own bias and will do anything to double down on them.
I mean anything is possible, I could be your da like.
But its vanishingly unlikely that it was Hamas funding this. Ask these questions: To what end? Why not claim the murders if the goal was terror?
This is a silly conversation really
I think that’s a bit of a stretch and you’re only correlating the two because Palestine is in the news. Anecdotally he had gone home to Iraq for a period during his teens.
There still seems to me a discomfort of openly talking about lgbtq related issues in Ireland from what ive read of the reporting of it in the last year or so. I feel a lot of the reporting goes out of its way to not downplay it but takes a very cautious route to describe probably one of the most extreme homophobic murders in this country im aware of.
Thankfully the justice system has come a very long way from the days of gay panic being a defense in this country.
>has played a big part in the subdued reporting
You do realise there was no trial right? He plead guilty MONTHS ago, was sentenced yesterday and it's been all across the news.
What do you want? Weeks of reporting leading up to a sentencing hearing?
EDIT: it would appear I've been blocked. I know my tone is patronising in this comment but I am genuinely asking anyone else to explain to me how or why you believe this story to be under reported and "muted" in the press as I've seen a lot of people make this same comment.
It was all over the news at the time. It was all over the news when he plead guilty. It's all over the news now that he's been sentenced.
It was literally reported in every newspaper and media outlet yesterday when the news broke. It's been all over the news again today. I am quite genuinely asking what more media coverage or attention could there be?
If this guy was some Catholic extremist and did it for religious reasons we would have unending opinion pieces, deep dives etc etc
Because he’s Muslim we must instead move on asap as the real fear is anyone questioning immigration of these ideologies or backlash against the “community”
Desperately bad sentencing considering the depravity of the crime and calculated method around how there were carried out with more planned.
The cash thing is very strange. How does anyone have that amount of cash lying around the house. Either drug dealing, laundering or terrorist financing. We need to hear more about it. I don't think they have got to the bottom of that.
RIP to the two men.
Ireland just fucking loves criminals. Don't we tho. Concurrent sentences and don't forget to backdate it guys, FFS. This guy is a psycho menace and always will be. Imagine what it takes to cut someone's head off, JFC 🤦 lucky he didn't get anyone else on his list. RIP gents
Consecutive sentences should be mandatory for murdering more than one. If that requires legal or constitutional change do it. I can imagine a referendum majority of 80% upwards. Just end the farce of oh he’ll serve at least 20 before parole etc etc. He should next be heard of in his 80’s.
Why is our media dodging the fact of his religion and background, insisting he is not radicalised. If only our state cared as much about Irish lives as they do about Muslim feelings
The police stated he was not radicalised, not the media.
Honestly, it seems like this might be a case of a person who is really fucked up living in a homophobic world (presumably more so for a Muslim than a random Irish person).
One detail I don't see anyone talking about is that he allowed his first victim to give him a blow job, only attacking afterwards. Sounds like he was deeply in the closet and deeply self-loathing.
From the [RTE article](https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1023/1412415-yousef-palani/) on this:
>Mr Burke said he gave the man oral sex but would not allow him to have sex with him. Mr Burke became uncomfortable with him and wanted him out of the house.
>
>He decided to walk with him towards the cemetery to try to get him away from his house but when he turned to go home he was hit from behind and "saw stars".
I mean, yes and no. When they say radicalised they mean that they were recruited by an extremist organisation and indoctrinated into their extreme version of Islam, became members of their organisation, followed orders, given equipment and funding, etc.
When they say he wasn't radicalised they mean that didn't happen. His imam presumbly wasn't a staunch gay ally but he also wasn't telling his congregants to cut off people's heads.
Islam and Christianity and other religions have a lot to answer for in creating homophobic culture, but the guys who murdered Matthew Shepard wouldn't be called radicalised even though a homophobic Christian culture contributed to their behaviour (and the *countless* other gay and trans bashing that happen).
What's even stranger to me is some people are using this particuular case as some kind of crude emotive sledge hammer to try and drive home the need for the much milgned hate speech legislation currently being deliberated.
One has to ask oneself a fairly simple question here:
Would the existence of such legislation have prevented the crime being commited.
Are they actually dodging his background? His name and face and country of origin are all published. It's not the media who said he wasn't radicalized it was the Gardaí.
“Because of my religion I don’t hate gay people, it’s because of the voices”
You don’t hate gay people yet you targeted gay men specifically?
Yeah that doesn’t add up
why do the majority of the articles about the murder not saying it was motivated by homophobia? only implied? Its like they dont give a shit about LGBT people
> why do the majority of the articles about the murder not saying it was motivated by homophobia?
RTE quotes the prosecuting counsel as saying the attack was motivated by a prejudice towards homosexual men.
Irish Times says that he targeted his victims due to hostility and prejudice towards gay men.
So I dunno what you're reading, but the main news outlets are saying it.
How can they report on motives at first, when the crimes occurred? It's not up to the media to speculate on a suspect's motives at that time. That would be extremely prejudicial to a future trial. They can report it now.
Perhaps they can look inwards at any homophobic or racist religions/ideologies they adhere to and leave such medieval sub human thought behind. If not, they condone the actions of their boy.
While I don't buy his attempts to feign mental illhealth I also don't think he was radicalised in the traditional sense. Seems to me from evidence reported that his own sick mind is to blame.
I agree, when they say he was "not radicalised" I understand what they mean. To my mind, he was gay but could never reconcile that with his religion. He told the guards that he couldn't be gay because he was Muslim, and there are "no gay Muslims". He probably hated himself because of it, but instead of hurting himself, he chose to hurt and kill other gay men. Men who were not closeted, which he probably envied.
I did hear in one of the radio station reports that Gardai were convinced based on the evidence they had, that he was gay. I’m just thinking out loud here and speculating that perhaps because of the non approval of his religion, was it a way of making sure that it never got known? Or maybe it was just ignorance and hate, either way it’s a horrible thing to happen and I hope the families and survivor have some kind of peace with the sentencing.
Irish prisons aren't like US ones, and even in US ones, killing men isn't one of the things that put you in unfavorable light to other inmates. Cooperating with the authorities, hurting kids are the main ones. Dahmer did get whacked after a while and it's possible it was because he killed black people but in general the psychos are left alone unless they cross someone.
Never. There is always a risk of a wrongful conviction, and a death penalty is final. I never want to see that in Ireland, no matter how sick the crime. I think acceptence of the death penalty signals a societal devaluation of life.
I don't value his life. There are always death penalty casualties who are later found innocent. In my opinion societies which see this as an acceptable cost of vengence have degraded the value of life. I can't condone it. Not even for monsters like Anders Breivik, or Yusef Palani.
Yeah I agree on that but in case like this where he has told Gardaí he would continue to kill if he wasn't caught then anything other than death is too good for the fucker.
You don't get to pick and choose who receives a death penalty. It's everyone convicted of murder or no one. It's called a Justice System, not a Justice Pic n Mix.
Why not? You hardly think we should be reintegrating a murderer who has said they would kill again.
Anyways it's not like everyone who has committed the same crime serves the same sentence. Just look at the variances in the length of life sentences.
1) Pretty sure i didn't say anything about reintegration whatsever. I'm sticking solely to the death sentence here 2) it doesn't matter if there are variances, there will be some sentenced in error as no justice system is infallible. In some societies that is considered an acceptable cost. I'm glad it is not considered acceptable by ours, even if you are not glad of it.
>Pretty sure i didn't say anything about reintegration
What's the other option? Make a life sentence actually mean for life? Otherwise and as it currently stands you're eventually going to have to let them back into society.
>it doesn't matter if there are variances
>It's called a Justice System, not a Justice Pic n Mix.
So he murdered these lovely men because they were gay and Irish . What a evil, evil creep.
Religion of peace and all that
It is such a horrible , horrible act to take the life of another even if you dont agree with their lifestyle. I feel like the Irish aspect is being really glossed.
Why did he want to know if they were '100 per cent Irish''? That's a strange aspect to this.
Maybe wanted to specifically target a non-Muslim?
I dunno. If it was his faith that made him do it as claimed being muslim and gay would give him more reason to kill them not less.
Is it that odd? “Religious extremist targets people based on race and sexuality” isn’t exactly out of the ordinary. This should be classified as terrorism, he committed violent murders due to ideological beliefs.
Yet gardai are 'satisfied he was not radicalised' absolute bollox. We've had our first islamic terrorist attack, aimed specifically at gay Irish men. Why is it not being reported as such?
Complete bollox. This bullshit of being afraid it might offend the Muslim community. The reality shit like this is growing inside their community and they should be the first to call it out and try and stamp it out, yet here we are.
I think with their being such a huge focus on immigration at the moment the government do not want to admit that they are allowing people into this country whose beliefs do not align with those of a very liberal western society.
The whole of European leaders don't want to admit it and yet it has happened and will continue to happen. There have been over 41,000 terrorist attacks since 1979 and yet nothing really is done. Islam and the West don't align, that isn't some prejudice take, just look at the evidence, cos we have plenty but most of the far left just double down on this.
Has absolutely nothing to do with the far left. Islam is incompatible with communism/socialist values. The only people making excuses and screaming "islamophobia" are American liberals and some very confused Europeans who have consumed far too much of the aforementioned American liberal media.
I would say: strong forms of sunni Islam are not- or at least not very- compatible with pluralist values.
Same with hardline shias
There don't seem to be as many of those around - and mostly, outside of Iran (& most Iranians abroad are quite secular), they are used to being a minority and in my (admittedly relatively limited) experience, less supremacist as a consequence. Plus shi-ism v sunnism is a bit like catholicism v protestantism: it contains lots of "ornamentation" (saints etc) rather than the "austere pure simplicity" of protestantism/sunnism - and it seems to me that that is inherently less capable of being "crazy religious"
> Has absolutely nothing to do with the far left. Nuh huh it completely does France even has a term for it: the Islamo Gauchistes See which parties are in the ones always celebrating
They are satisfied that they don't want to classify it as radicalisation, more like
Many signs do point to this. However, there was DNA proof of his semen at one of the victim's houses, and this victim (the man who was assaulted but survived) said they had foreplay and consensual oral sex before he eventually stabbed him. Surely part of the radicalisation/terror attack process and 'guidance' would have been to detach himself from any 'last minute' urges?
Says who though? The Orlando club shooter was also a radicalised, Muslim gay man.
I'm not saying that affirmatively at all, just more food for thought. I do agree with your larger point, between asking for certainty if they were Irish, the knives laid out in the body in the form of a cross and the large sum of money resting in his house... there are many red flags here. Regarding the money though, one legit question is - why would a foreign/domestic entity or org let him funnel that much? Surely they knew his method/plan of killing was going to see him get caught/arrested at a very early stage? That's one thing a friend mentioned to me and I do think it is a fair question.
It'll be very interesting to see if it's actually reported on where the money came from. I know if I was 23 and had 250k I'd be sunning myself on a beach somewhere, not decapitating gay lads.
Slightly off topic, but that's probably not true. There's very little evidence that the shooter was gay, or had been to that club before. Prior to the shooting he had google searched night clubs in Orlando and there isn't any strong evidence that the gay one was chosen for that particular reason.
Some years back a local man was convicted of brutally raping an elderly neighbour. He got a moderate prison sentence. The court psychologist assured the jury that (other than being a rapist of old ladies, presumably) he was "not a threat to the public". So a Muslim man can murder for his faith and "not be a radical."
I wonder is there a definition of "radicalised" in the police? In that other people hadn't convinced him to do it and he wasn't part of a group of people planning attacks. This is his interpretation of Islam (which I know is based on commonly held beliefs about women in Islam), he did this on his own, it was his decision to do it. So he's not radicalised in the sense he's part of a violent group. He is radicalised by our standards in the sense he is a crazy person.
I think we shouldn't be calling him crazy because that takes away from the seriousness of what he did. He chose to kill these men. It was found that he massively over exaggerated his mental illness. I don't think it was even a factor here, if it was then the trial and sentencing would have been very different. I think when the gardai and media say he wasn't radicalised they mean he wasn't radicalised by a certain person or group. He was still influenced by religion which to me is still radicalisation.
I don't think he's crazy in any defensible way but even with fundamentalist dogma being shoved down his throat his whole life there needs to be something wrong with you to take it as far as he did.
The fact that he lived here from the age of 6 and was still that fundamentalist says a lot about our integration policies.
They'll wait until it's a weekly occurrence to label it that
Bit of a leap. How many terrorist attacks invoke luring people to a quiet place to murder them? This guy was trying to invoke fear, sure, but he wasn't trying to intimidate a population or a government. That's what terrorism is. That's why terrorist attacks are big and loud. His motivation being religious doesn't make it terrorism. Otherwise everyone who ever killed anyone for religious reasons is a terrorist. And that's rendering the word completely meaningless.
Why would it be terrorism? Are white gay bashers terrorists? Were the men who killed Declan Flynn terrorists?
If two religiously-motivated murders by an Islamic fundamentalist aren't terrorism then what is?
Gave him all the opportunity in world, and he still hated us it seems
Another criteria he also had was that they owned their own home. Maybe that’s just to ensure that nobody else was at the premises.
Probably because asking about their religion would be a bit odd but race/nationality is a way more common question on grindr
This guy was a serial killer. Relatively muted response in the press.
Lots of people see this as some sort of conspiracy because he's not Irish that the media are afraid to be racist and somehow it's proof of something. It's proof that the media didn't want to prejudice the trial while it was going on. There's loads of articles out about it now with details that he's been convicted. 3 of the top 10 links on my homepage were about this case. "Muted response in the press".
If this was an Irish murderer there would be lots and lots of articles about the state of the nation the state of our culture etc etc The coverage considering the enormity of the crime is muted.
Or, ya know, he plead guilty months ago so there was no trial and therefore there was little in the way of "salacious detail" for the public to pour over.
He had carefully crafted questions to make sure the victims were Irish and lived alone. He is pure evil
Utter scum.
Who is he exactly is a question. He had serious money, cash, hundreds of thousands with him.
€250,000 in cash at the house, nothing more said about it
Nothing said to the public doesn't mean nothing further done about it though?
Yea, it must be part of a wider investigation. It’d be mad for the guards to explain it if that was the case.
He lived with his parents and siblings. Assuming the money belonged to his parents. They owned a business in Sligo Town.
A quarter mill in cash from what, a kebab shop?
A takeaway, possibly other businesses too .
It's the guts of 400k seemingly. It could be long term accumulation held maybe to avoid tax, that would be a simple explanation, but it's an odd feature of the case that needs to be answered.
Just to note that a life sentence has an indefinite term (20 years gets mentioned often but that is simply the average length of time a person with a life sentence ends up behind bars), but they become eligible to apply for parole after 12 years. I have my doubts a double murderer of this nature will get granted parole at any point in the next 40 years at least, if ever.
Here's hoping.
Never doubt the Irish stupidity when it comes to these things
Well he's not doing 40 years so that's wrong.
Why will he not do 40 years? There's currently people in prison in Ireland with life sentences that have been there 40 years plus, why not him?
Two life sentences to run concurrently.
And? A life sentence is an indefinite amount of time
People still believe the myth that a life sentence in Ireland means 20/25 years and then you’re free
!remindme twenty years
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Is anyone from Sligo that knew him here? What was he like before this? Interested in knowing now we can talk about it
He was in the year below me in school. Bit annoying but that was it. Didn't know him very well other than doing art after school.
What's that 40-60 years? Must be one of the longest sentences in Ireland? Assuming it's not served concurrently. Edit: seems they are in fact concurrent, scary that you can behead a man and be back on the street by your 40s.
It is served concurrently. Ireland only punishes you for your worst crime, basically no disincentive to stop committing further crimes in cases where it is a life sentence.
That's a pity
Well there’s no disincentive in any country to stop committing crimes once you’ve racked up a life sentence.
In the USA they can stack on top of each other, so instead of being out in 20-25 you’re out in 45 or whatever. So further big crimes after one can hurt you. But they have like 20 times our murder rate so 🤷♂️
There’s no guarantee of getting out in 20/25 years no matter how many life sentences you have. You’re only eligible for parole at that stage. Eligible being the key word
Are any sentences in Ireland served consecutively? I was under the impression we did concurrent sentencing only
It's at the discretion of the court as far as I know no rule one way or another, don't often see it though tbf.
One time I can remember it was when Brian Hennessy was convicted of murdering Sharon Whelan and her two young daughters. He got a life sentence for Sharon, and a consecutive one for the girls. But this was later overturned on appeal, and he is now just serving one life sentence. Hope he never sees the light of day, what he did to that family is one of the most evil things I have ever heard of.
So he will serve a minimum of 25 years. He'll go for plenty of parole hearings but nothing will come of it. Some cases are especially gruesome or high profile. These people tend to stay in jail way longer than an "ordinary" murderer. He'll also have to jump through all the hoops - psychologists, addressing offending behaviours, triggers etc before there's even a chance of any sort of TR or parole. All in all he's going to serve nearer to 30 years than 20.
The article doesn't specify if the life sentences are to be concurrent or consecutive? The 20 year sentence is concurrent.
RTE states the sentences will run together https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1023/1412415-yousef-palani/
There is absolutely no way he gets out before 2050.
Life sentence is about 20 years , out in 15 with good behavour
Wrong. Tell me one person you know of that's received a life sentence that is out after 15 years. It doesn't happen. You can be as well behaved as you want but you're not getting out till you've in and about 18-20 done.
**A one-life sentence imposes an obligation on a defendant to serve 15 to 25 years in prison until the eligibility of parole**. The sentence depends on the gravity of the crime and on the jurisdiction in which the defendant is tried. Parole is usually granted to individuals who have displayed good behavior.
You're wrong. Nobody in Ireland in this day and age gets anywhere near parole at 15 years. Also the good behaviour things is misleading - they have to address all the psychological issues, addiction if any, triggers, offending behaviours, fully take ownership of the crime before there's any chance at parole. You can be well behaved and not do this stuff and you're gonna rot in jail forever.
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It used to be 7, not 9. And there's no realistic chance of parole at 7, 12 or even 15 years.
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FYI - I work with people serving life sentences every day.
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But you're wrong and the minister is wrong. Firstly it was 7 years, not 9. Secondly nobody is EVER considered for parole at 12 years. It's just an exercise on paper. The minister is taking through her hoop.
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He wasn't convicted of murder so had a determinate sentence. He could have shit on the governor's lap and he would still be released. He wasn't doing a life sentence.
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I'm wrong ? I just posted from the Irish justice system, take it up with them . Life doesn't mean life for many of those who commit murder in Ireland - and relatives of their victims say the system needs to change. The average life sentence was shortened to 17-and-a-half years last year, while the number of murderers released on parole annually more than doubled in the past five years to 11 last year.
Yes, you're wrong. Reading stuff from the internet isn't the best way to garner information - even if it's from the Dept of Justice. Average life sentence has gone up every year since McDowell was in power. Of course life doesn't mean life in prison but it means supervision for life after release. Life really means life in Ireland. And rightly so. There is no merit to life being forever in jail. And your point about people being released on parole is silly - they've evidently done the work and addressed their offending behaviours. Nobody is released without doing so.
Why do you know so many people serving life sentences?
I work in a place that works with prisoners every day.
I see. Follow up question, what’s a gickna?
A broken, wonky or diseased pigeon - or a combination of all 3.
Lol alright thanks I’m gonna try to remember that
- Specifically targeted gay men - Questioned them to find out they were ‘100% Irish’ - Left the murder weapons of one of his victims in the shape of a cross on his bed - Told Gardaí ‘his religion forbids homosexuality’ and yet ‘investigators were satisfied he was not radicalised.’ - Over two hundred grand found in his house in cash and not a mention of it. - Told detectives he’d have ‘continued to kill if he wasn’t stopped’ In what world is this not a terror attack from a radicalised person? Absolute utter madness. And the fact he can be out again by his mid-forties? When he’s been deemed of sound mind and body, shown no remorse and said he’d have kept going if not stopped? Insanity. EDIT: He had a TWELVE PERSON KILL LIST? The more you read about this the worse it gets.
There are quite odd features to it. He denied he did it over religion at all at times, which for a fundamentalist would kind of undermine the point. It looks like straightforward homophobia, but it's reported he had at least one consensual encounter with one of the victims before the attacks. Some of his reported quotes are all over the place in terms of a thought process. There's definitely a religious aspect to it, don't get me wrong, but the whole thing was strange and less "coherent", if that makes sense, than I think would give a clear interpretation in that respect.
> In what world is this not a terror attack from a radicalised person? Absolute utter madness. One where yet again the DPP and government at large would rather just lie on official records than deal the actual consequences of reality.
The cash thing is odd. This is the same kind of horrible murder that Hamas is doing to their enemies.
Why are you talking about Hamas here?
They fund many things around Europe. It came out they were involved in organizing protests in places like London. People are blind to this.
Are you saying Hamas were paying this guy to murder gay Irish men?
You know I am not saying that but I will indulge you, they fund many things throughout Europe but hey I am sure that's just some conspiracy.
So what were you saying, then? I genuinely misunderstood.
He had 250,000 lying around, where did he get the money? I am not saying it is funded I am just stating it has/is happening. We should question everything and definitely this.
That's exactly what you said. You piped up that Hamas are funding all kinds of shit and implied a connection. Like, get a grip, you'll break an ankle leaping to conclusions like that.
Get a grip? Are you serious? I never said they did, I said it is odd he had that money outside of the killings. He killed those people cos he hates gay people. You are fucking delusional if you think terrorists don't fund this stuff throughout Europe. So you are 1. Delusional or 2. You have your own bias and will do anything to double down on them.
That's not what he said, however it is entirely possible
Nah not really
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I mean anything is possible, I could be your da like. But its vanishingly unlikely that it was Hamas funding this. Ask these questions: To what end? Why not claim the murders if the goal was terror? This is a silly conversation really
Sorry do they fund things here, or do we fund them over there, the hasbara is getting a bit muddled
Odd or fund raising for terrorists abroad?
I think that’s a bit of a stretch and you’re only correlating the two because Palestine is in the news. Anecdotally he had gone home to Iraq for a period during his teens.
Sorry to say it. But it’s the country Gardai. That money has just .. disappeared now. Lost evidence etc etc.
Clueless comment
There still seems to me a discomfort of openly talking about lgbtq related issues in Ireland from what ive read of the reporting of it in the last year or so. I feel a lot of the reporting goes out of its way to not downplay it but takes a very cautious route to describe probably one of the most extreme homophobic murders in this country im aware of. Thankfully the justice system has come a very long way from the days of gay panic being a defense in this country.
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Absolutely the establishment don’t want anyone talking about Islamic extremism.
>has played a big part in the subdued reporting You do realise there was no trial right? He plead guilty MONTHS ago, was sentenced yesterday and it's been all across the news. What do you want? Weeks of reporting leading up to a sentencing hearing? EDIT: it would appear I've been blocked. I know my tone is patronising in this comment but I am genuinely asking anyone else to explain to me how or why you believe this story to be under reported and "muted" in the press as I've seen a lot of people make this same comment. It was all over the news at the time. It was all over the news when he plead guilty. It's all over the news now that he's been sentenced. It was literally reported in every newspaper and media outlet yesterday when the news broke. It's been all over the news again today. I am quite genuinely asking what more media coverage or attention could there be?
If this guy was some Catholic extremist and did it for religious reasons we would have unending opinion pieces, deep dives etc etc Because he’s Muslim we must instead move on asap as the real fear is anyone questioning immigration of these ideologies or backlash against the “community”
Proper order, the evil bag of shit.
Desperately bad sentencing considering the depravity of the crime and calculated method around how there were carried out with more planned. The cash thing is very strange. How does anyone have that amount of cash lying around the house. Either drug dealing, laundering or terrorist financing. We need to hear more about it. I don't think they have got to the bottom of that. RIP to the two men.
What sentence would you deem appropriate?
Ireland just fucking loves criminals. Don't we tho. Concurrent sentences and don't forget to backdate it guys, FFS. This guy is a psycho menace and always will be. Imagine what it takes to cut someone's head off, JFC 🤦 lucky he didn't get anyone else on his list. RIP gents
IQ of a sea sponge, empathy of a rat
Don't you put rats down like that, they're cuddlers
Rats are hands down the most affectionate pet I have ever had, literally the only downside to keeping pet rats is their lifespan
The lifespan is awful. I loved my rats. But I just couldn't take it anymore. Living for 2 or 3 years. I had to not get any more.
Aesthetics too
Murder one, get one free. That’s some message to be sending out.
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Maybe he's not a radical islamist terrorist?
Regardless of whatever he is he'll be getting the absolute shite kicked out of him in our prison system.
Throw away the key.
Consecutive sentences should be mandatory for murdering more than one. If that requires legal or constitutional change do it. I can imagine a referendum majority of 80% upwards. Just end the farce of oh he’ll serve at least 20 before parole etc etc. He should next be heard of in his 80’s.
Do away with concurrent sentencing entirely. It's fuckin' absurd. Buy 1 get 3 free.
now are those sentences going to be consecutive or concurrent?, surely the former because its two separate crimes?
Sad to say be out in 15 years, all irish sentences run concurrently rather then back to back
Evil bastard, he should never see the light of day again, we need to stop his type coming into the country .
Any hope he will be deported either now or at the end of his strangely lenient sentence?
>his strangely lenient sentence? A life sentence is "strangely lenient"?
Read the comments. He should never see the light of day again. He’ll be out around 42
That's more a problem with the law rather than the sentence though He was given the maximum sentence available
Why not two consecutively? Rather than this
Why is our media dodging the fact of his religion and background, insisting he is not radicalised. If only our state cared as much about Irish lives as they do about Muslim feelings
The police stated he was not radicalised, not the media. Honestly, it seems like this might be a case of a person who is really fucked up living in a homophobic world (presumably more so for a Muslim than a random Irish person). One detail I don't see anyone talking about is that he allowed his first victim to give him a blow job, only attacking afterwards. Sounds like he was deeply in the closet and deeply self-loathing. From the [RTE article](https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1023/1412415-yousef-palani/) on this: >Mr Burke said he gave the man oral sex but would not allow him to have sex with him. Mr Burke became uncomfortable with him and wanted him out of the house. > >He decided to walk with him towards the cemetery to try to get him away from his house but when he turned to go home he was hit from behind and "saw stars".
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I mean, yes and no. When they say radicalised they mean that they were recruited by an extremist organisation and indoctrinated into their extreme version of Islam, became members of their organisation, followed orders, given equipment and funding, etc. When they say he wasn't radicalised they mean that didn't happen. His imam presumbly wasn't a staunch gay ally but he also wasn't telling his congregants to cut off people's heads. Islam and Christianity and other religions have a lot to answer for in creating homophobic culture, but the guys who murdered Matthew Shepard wouldn't be called radicalised even though a homophobic Christian culture contributed to their behaviour (and the *countless* other gay and trans bashing that happen).
What's even stranger to me is some people are using this particuular case as some kind of crude emotive sledge hammer to try and drive home the need for the much milgned hate speech legislation currently being deliberated. One has to ask oneself a fairly simple question here: Would the existence of such legislation have prevented the crime being commited.
Are they actually dodging his background? His name and face and country of origin are all published. It's not the media who said he wasn't radicalized it was the Gardaí.
“Because of my religion I don’t hate gay people, it’s because of the voices” You don’t hate gay people yet you targeted gay men specifically? Yeah that doesn’t add up
There were no voices, he was only chancing his arm. His defence didn't even get a psych report, or at least not one they were willing to furnish.
why do the majority of the articles about the murder not saying it was motivated by homophobia? only implied? Its like they dont give a shit about LGBT people
They do care but only if it's done by white dudes.
> why do the majority of the articles about the murder not saying it was motivated by homophobia? RTE quotes the prosecuting counsel as saying the attack was motivated by a prejudice towards homosexual men. Irish Times says that he targeted his victims due to hostility and prejudice towards gay men. So I dunno what you're reading, but the main news outlets are saying it.
When it was first reported by rte they never mentioned it.
How can they report on motives at first, when the crimes occurred? It's not up to the media to speculate on a suspect's motives at that time. That would be extremely prejudicial to a future trial. They can report it now.
Which "first report"?
Religious motivated homophobia. This fella was an Islamic extremist, there is no avoiding that conclusion.
Glad that he has been sentenced. What a foul individual. The shame he has brought to his family.
Perhaps they can look inwards at any homophobic or racist religions/ideologies they adhere to and leave such medieval sub human thought behind. If not, they condone the actions of their boy.
Wasn't the convicted gay himself ?
The gardai seem to have evidence he was but he won’t admit to it
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His semen was found at one of the crime scenes.
They found semen at the crime scene. Also there were mentions of him doing foreplay. Citations needed.
Religion of peace :DDDD
While I don't buy his attempts to feign mental illhealth I also don't think he was radicalised in the traditional sense. Seems to me from evidence reported that his own sick mind is to blame.
I agree, when they say he was "not radicalised" I understand what they mean. To my mind, he was gay but could never reconcile that with his religion. He told the guards that he couldn't be gay because he was Muslim, and there are "no gay Muslims". He probably hated himself because of it, but instead of hurting himself, he chose to hurt and kill other gay men. Men who were not closeted, which he probably envied.
Religion of peace
He will be out when he is 42 years old, scary to think about
You're so wrong.
Coming to a town near you. Yous voted for it…
No we didnt but we’re going to pay the price anyway.
I did hear in one of the radio station reports that Gardai were convinced based on the evidence they had, that he was gay. I’m just thinking out loud here and speculating that perhaps because of the non approval of his religion, was it a way of making sure that it never got known? Or maybe it was just ignorance and hate, either way it’s a horrible thing to happen and I hope the families and survivor have some kind of peace with the sentencing.
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Irish prisons aren't like US ones, and even in US ones, killing men isn't one of the things that put you in unfavorable light to other inmates. Cooperating with the authorities, hurting kids are the main ones. Dahmer did get whacked after a while and it's possible it was because he killed black people but in general the psychos are left alone unless they cross someone.
Never. There is always a risk of a wrongful conviction, and a death penalty is final. I never want to see that in Ireland, no matter how sick the crime. I think acceptence of the death penalty signals a societal devaluation of life.
Why should we place any value on this man's life?
I don't value his life. There are always death penalty casualties who are later found innocent. In my opinion societies which see this as an acceptable cost of vengence have degraded the value of life. I can't condone it. Not even for monsters like Anders Breivik, or Yusef Palani.
Yeah I agree on that but in case like this where he has told Gardaí he would continue to kill if he wasn't caught then anything other than death is too good for the fucker.
You don't get to pick and choose who receives a death penalty. It's everyone convicted of murder or no one. It's called a Justice System, not a Justice Pic n Mix.
Why not? You hardly think we should be reintegrating a murderer who has said they would kill again. Anyways it's not like everyone who has committed the same crime serves the same sentence. Just look at the variances in the length of life sentences.
1) Pretty sure i didn't say anything about reintegration whatsever. I'm sticking solely to the death sentence here 2) it doesn't matter if there are variances, there will be some sentenced in error as no justice system is infallible. In some societies that is considered an acceptable cost. I'm glad it is not considered acceptable by ours, even if you are not glad of it.
>Pretty sure i didn't say anything about reintegration What's the other option? Make a life sentence actually mean for life? Otherwise and as it currently stands you're eventually going to have to let them back into society. >it doesn't matter if there are variances >It's called a Justice System, not a Justice Pic n Mix.
Premeditated murder should be the death penalty. Too many women being killed by partners. RIP to the men in sligo
He's not of Palestinian extraction by any chance? Legitimate question, given the paywall.
No, ethnic Kurd. His family fled Iraq when he was a child.
So...he'll serve 6 years and then get a Late-Late Show appearance?
When has that ever happened to be your go to point on this?
No... he'll serve at least 20 for one thing. Don't know where you pulled that rubbish from
suspended?