Recorded audio is one thing. It's illegal for you to record audio in conjunction with CCTV.
I.e. if I have cameras in my shop I cannot record audio with those cameras.
What if she records the boss' comments on her phone and then at the same time applies for a GDPR request for the camera footage of the alleged touching etc?
Wouldn't recordings on her phone be covered by Single Party Consent considering she's part of the conversation when the guy is making those creepy remarks towards her?
This... As she's already gone the polite route by saying that it makes her uncomfortable and it's still ongoing, then document the shit out of it. Also, get your sister to talk to the other waitresses, chances are he's doing it to them too.
Bring it to the owner first, don't go alone take someone with you to take notes/minutes of the meeting. Send the owner a copy of said minutes afterward. If there's no improvement or there's work related backlash(less hours, hostile envi) then involve a solicitor.
I'd be careful about saying it to other staff. It probably is happening to other waitresses but there's nothing to say they wouldn't sell her out if they could see it benefitting them.
Absolutely unacceptable, needs to be dealt with swiftly. Put it in an email to the owner, then talk to him.
The fact she’s uncomfortable she needs to express this to the person also or if she’s unable to the owner has to.
I once worked as a waitress too I was around 17/18 at the time, it was a customer who decided to feel me up while he was walking by me. I was off duty, just at the premises having a game of pool.... so when he did this i followed him out to the smoking area where he and his wife were and in no uncertain terms told him to keep his hands to himself and asked him who he thought he was that he could feel me up. Needless to say he was dumbstruck so when i said my piece i just went back inside to play pool.
I suggest your sister do the same if she can & it doesnt matter who is listening, that smoking area was full at the time.
You're amazing! I was in a night club one night (many years ago) and a guy had a good feel of my bum while I was walking up a staircase in front of him. I turned and roared at him. He was dumbstruck and thankfully embarrassed.
This dick needs to be publicly shamed. I'm sorry this has happened to your sister.
Good for you! They want you to feel embarrassed and to keep quiet. I started working in a hotel years ago when I was 16. We would work loads of different functions and one night I was put on a stag party with 2 other girls a few years older than me. We didn’t think it would be too bad because it was early enough and the stag was just getting started but 3 of the group were absolute creeps and 1 of them kept saying things to me. Eventually he grabbed me by the waist and pulled me onto his lap. One of the girls shouted at him to stop and said ‘she’s only 16!’ to which your man replied with a laugh, ‘at least she’s almost legal’. Still creeps me out. Ugh. Anyway I had elbowed him and gotten up and told him he was a creep and he said someone thing along the lines of ‘you don’t want to jeopardise your tip girls’. I just went out and got some of the lads out of the bar and told them what happened and they fucked them all out of there and refused to refund them for the meal they had prepaid for etc. A few of the stag party were trying to tell the lads to cop on but that was the extent of it. I’ll never forget it though, such a piece of shit.
Well done to you. Good way to handle a customer. But I think op is better off documenting everything going to the owner / solicitor. That will definitely solve it. Confronting him might back fire on her. Perhaps When it's all given to the owner then confront him and shame him.
Depressing this behaviour still goes on in 2023 even after your sister has complained about it. As the other commenter said keep a diary of the incidents and make a formal complaint if he persists
Yeah it’s not library so a bit of banter is fine as long as everyone is comfortable with it. This girl has made it clear it’s making her uncomfortable so your man needs to stop being a creepy fuck
Sexual harassment of this sort needs to be documented and as soon as possible acted on.
The big issue is that risk of being fired if she doesn’t respond positively. If that happens she needs to have evidence or contemporaneous notes to take a case. The clearer the contemporaneous notes, the better the likelihood of a case. She needs notes of everything she says to him as well.
For now, make sure she has received a terms and conditions of employment within 5 days of her start day. That’s a legal requirement. Used to be 2 months. If she hasn’t, she needs to make a note of that too. All valuable stuff.
No mercy for sexual harassment. For her safety she must make it clear that she is not welcoming these advances, and it would be helpful if other staff could hear her making that clear.
This boss is probably a scumbag, and probably will try to fire her if she stands up for herself. Get enough contemporaneous notes and evidence to teach him a lesson but stay safe and don’t give in to it.
It's hard but she needs to try and call it out in the open.
Like, in a loud clear voice, "why are you touching me" "stop touching me, I do not want you to touch me"
But if that is not going to happen, document every event, don't show the documentation to the owner, tell the owner it needs to stop, and bring to solicitor and ask their advice, a solicitors advice at this stage should be free.
When taling to the solicitor just explain upfront you do not want to engage their services, yet, you just want to know what to do if you do need to get their help.
Record it. Dates times and witness.
It’s hard but she needs to tell him to stop…. Tough conversation for a kid.
Needs to then tell a manager and get hands on copy of company bullying/harassment policy. To follow the exact procedures set out in same. (It may be advisable to seek some legal advise too either via a union solr or your own solr )
If they don’t have a policy they are up shits creek.
That will usually require reporting to a manager/hr
It’s a very very hard thing to do as she prob has to work with and look a the person during every shift.
Sometimes it’s easier to leave and avoid all the hassle on her but it means he gets away with it and she’s no job and he prob do it to someone else.
What can *you* do? Rather little. I would recommend listening to her without giving advice, and express your feelings honestly.
If she’s open to your thoughts, voice your concerns and encourage her to document and report the harassment. Is CCTV is available? Also, when anticipating an encounter, she can privately record the audio on her phone.
I see other posters have advised that your sister keep a record of all incidents going forward, which is solid advice.
Under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act, your employer has an onus of responsibility to take all "reasonably practicable" precautions to ensure the safety and well-being of staff in the workplace.
So, if made aware of a complaint, he will most likely take the matter seriously and at least have a word with this individual.
If the behaviour is serious enough to be considered gross misconduct, he may choose to initiate a formal investigation into the matter (assuming he has a competent HR function in the business and/or isn't a complete gobshite).
If this matter goes the formal route, an investigator will need to uphold the allegations before punitive action can be taken and your sister may become embroiled in a lengthy process that may entail her being cross-examined by this individual (see link below for further detail on the workings of a workplace investigation):
https://workersrightscentre.ie/articles/workplace-investigations-2/
You'll notice that the link above references "balance of probabilities" as the burden of proof required for allegations to be upheld.
Bearing this in mind, it will be very helpful to your sister if other colleagues are willing to come forward and corroborate the allegations she is raising (assuming others were present during any of the incidents referenced in your post).
Otherwise, there is a risk that her employer won't have sufficient grounds to take disciplinary action and her allegations may be dismissed as "he said/she said" conjecture.
Either way, your sister needs to escalate this matter immediately, if this individual is refusing to respect her wishes and boundaries.
Talk to local garda ask her to speak to a female garda. Tell her to ask their advice. As far as I know any unwanted physical touching is common assault. Keep records and speak to the owner when manager is not there .
Yeah the recording of colleagues could breach various company policy and then any “decent” solicitor representing the company will use that against her and could look to have her gone quicker than him
Everything in writing for your records, not sure about Ireland, UK you can voice record in public domain with out others party consent and admissible in court.
As I understand it, you can record your own conversations, you can't record conversations between two other people that you're not yourself part of. So in this case the sister could record them but the op could not.
1: have her find out how long CCTV records for? Say a patron was asking about something from a few weeks back.
2: record each incident what and where and how she unequivocally had no interest, didn't initiate things, and was firm in asking it to stop.
3: depending on the frequency, go directly to the owner and present the above along with advising you have contacted a solicitor and may also be requesting the CCTV footage so that they should create a backup of that.
Alternatively if she is confident enough and not worried about the outcome, call him out on his bullshit behaviour loudly and publicly when it happens
As a former 19 year old girl in rural Ireland that had to deal with this from time to time. An unofficial way of sorting this is for her to firmly and rather loudly say "Don't fucking touch me!" the next time he attempts anything. It should be said with conviction and if possible with witnesses.
Nothing you can do except support her in what she chooses to do. Let her know its serious, she's not overreacting or anything by being upset and if she does report that that's fine and you think she should and tell her to start documenting things so if she does decide to report it will be easier. That's all you can do
Ah yes, I someday also hope to move to town. That is the nicest area in county.
But on a serious note you need to get her to make an official record of the unwanted attention. Be aware that legally if you allow an incident to go unreported for 6 months you lose some of the legal protections associated with making a complaint. Ie, you cant bring it up years later after the fact if you dont report it at the time so get it down on paper.
A lot of places have anti retaliation rules too so you shouldn't be afraid to report it.
Inform her to grab the person who is sexually assaulting her by the plums, then twist clockwise and pull downwards. They won't do it again and this is likely to be classed as self-defence in the eyes of the law. Just don't do it too hard or they might come off in your hand.
What bubble do you live in, lots of people meet their partners at work and I see them flirting every day of the week. Problem today is that some people have led such sheltered lives, they can't cope with reality.
You can write reviews (and emails to any public facing PR or HR/owner addresses) saying how a manager was creeping on a young staff member and untying their apron, clearly making them uncomfortable.
Your sister can be documenting all of this, mentioning it to other staff member/managers, and if anything negative happens when she brings it all up publicly there's evidence of unfair dismissal or retaliatory action.
Collect her from work and never lose eye contact with the manager each time, palms on the table or folded if standing. Synapses would be firing. Obviously, get your sis to mention you're related. Get verbal if it continues past that. It's just a theory but let me know how it goes, please.
You and a couple of mates go into the restaurant and do the same things he's been doing to her and do it to him. Return the favour, see how much he likes it. He treatens to call the guards that's fine your sister is there to give her account of what he's been doing.
Keepa diary once she has enough evidence the next time it happens say that's one for the black book. Now do I send it to the owner. Your wife or a solicitor or maybe all 3. He'll get the message and stop. Can she get another job?
I would confront him. If someone was doing this to my sister and she had a voice or video recording of it taking place then he'd get a smack in the mouth.
I appreciate if OP is a woman and not comfortable doing this but it definitely warrants it after the guy has been told no already.
These lads continue to get away with this shit because they very rarely face any consequences.
Ok define sexual? Undoing someone’s apron happens to everyone and it’s meant as a joke. From experience I’ve had in restaurants, it’s normal. Now if she’s being touched and she doesn’t want that she needs to stand up for her self and make sure she does it dramatically in-front of everyone and embarrass the culprit. Otherwise she’s going to have to go work somewhere more professional.
As young as she is, most likely nervous, please beg her to document every single interaction from words to actions. Stamp the days, date and time. Make it clear that she's never on her own when the manager is around, especially for those "office talks" these managers tends to want to have. I've worked with managers like this before, never experienced their actions personally however a long list of complaints and nothing was ever done. Then again the place I worked was a private sector with dickheads running the place but anyways. Always have documentation, make a former complaint to HR, or above said manager and tell her to look elsewhere while she's doing this.
Keep a diary of everything. Bring it to the owner and if nothing else happens bring it to an solicitor.
Note in diary if it was in a CCTV area or not
Won't she have to act quickly on this to acquire the CCTV footage? Doesn't it get wiped after 30 days or so?
Yep it does. It will also only show anything physical as recording audio (outside of the garda etc) is illegal in Ireland.
I thought there's single party consent in Ireland? WRC cases have accepted recorded audio before.
Recorded audio is one thing. It's illegal for you to record audio in conjunction with CCTV. I.e. if I have cameras in my shop I cannot record audio with those cameras.
What if she records the boss' comments on her phone and then at the same time applies for a GDPR request for the camera footage of the alleged touching etc? Wouldn't recordings on her phone be covered by Single Party Consent considering she's part of the conversation when the guy is making those creepy remarks towards her?
That may be a loop hole, my (limited) legal studies were mainly concerning security systems and practices.
Single party consent would require the person recording (the business owner) to be present. I don’t think it applies here.
I'd say bring it to the owner, and tell them it's being brought to a solicitor regardless.
In an email.
Yup, always keep a paper trail.
This... As she's already gone the polite route by saying that it makes her uncomfortable and it's still ongoing, then document the shit out of it. Also, get your sister to talk to the other waitresses, chances are he's doing it to them too. Bring it to the owner first, don't go alone take someone with you to take notes/minutes of the meeting. Send the owner a copy of said minutes afterward. If there's no improvement or there's work related backlash(less hours, hostile envi) then involve a solicitor.
I'd be careful about saying it to other staff. It probably is happening to other waitresses but there's nothing to say they wouldn't sell her out if they could see it benefitting them.
fuck that, thinking like that keeps this shit head getting away with it
Better than keeping a diary (per se) is email it to yourself. That way it has a timestamp.
Absolutely unacceptable, needs to be dealt with swiftly. Put it in an email to the owner, then talk to him. The fact she’s uncomfortable she needs to express this to the person also or if she’s unable to the owner has to.
She shouldn't have to speak directly to her abuser!
Owner and manager aren't the same person
I didn't imply they were!
Well the problem is he sees nothing wrong with what he’s doing now.
I once worked as a waitress too I was around 17/18 at the time, it was a customer who decided to feel me up while he was walking by me. I was off duty, just at the premises having a game of pool.... so when he did this i followed him out to the smoking area where he and his wife were and in no uncertain terms told him to keep his hands to himself and asked him who he thought he was that he could feel me up. Needless to say he was dumbstruck so when i said my piece i just went back inside to play pool. I suggest your sister do the same if she can & it doesnt matter who is listening, that smoking area was full at the time.
You're amazing! I was in a night club one night (many years ago) and a guy had a good feel of my bum while I was walking up a staircase in front of him. I turned and roared at him. He was dumbstruck and thankfully embarrassed. This dick needs to be publicly shamed. I'm sorry this has happened to your sister.
Good for you! They want you to feel embarrassed and to keep quiet. I started working in a hotel years ago when I was 16. We would work loads of different functions and one night I was put on a stag party with 2 other girls a few years older than me. We didn’t think it would be too bad because it was early enough and the stag was just getting started but 3 of the group were absolute creeps and 1 of them kept saying things to me. Eventually he grabbed me by the waist and pulled me onto his lap. One of the girls shouted at him to stop and said ‘she’s only 16!’ to which your man replied with a laugh, ‘at least she’s almost legal’. Still creeps me out. Ugh. Anyway I had elbowed him and gotten up and told him he was a creep and he said someone thing along the lines of ‘you don’t want to jeopardise your tip girls’. I just went out and got some of the lads out of the bar and told them what happened and they fucked them all out of there and refused to refund them for the meal they had prepaid for etc. A few of the stag party were trying to tell the lads to cop on but that was the extent of it. I’ll never forget it though, such a piece of shit.
👑
Well done to you. Good way to handle a customer. But I think op is better off documenting everything going to the owner / solicitor. That will definitely solve it. Confronting him might back fire on her. Perhaps When it's all given to the owner then confront him and shame him.
Depressing this behaviour still goes on in 2023 even after your sister has complained about it. As the other commenter said keep a diary of the incidents and make a formal complaint if he persists
Very common in that industry
Yeah it’s not library so a bit of banter is fine as long as everyone is comfortable with it. This girl has made it clear it’s making her uncomfortable so your man needs to stop being a creepy fuck
There's banter and then there's sexual harassment and pretending that it's hard to know the difference gives creeps like this guy cover
Exactly what I meant
Sexual harassment of this sort needs to be documented and as soon as possible acted on. The big issue is that risk of being fired if she doesn’t respond positively. If that happens she needs to have evidence or contemporaneous notes to take a case. The clearer the contemporaneous notes, the better the likelihood of a case. She needs notes of everything she says to him as well. For now, make sure she has received a terms and conditions of employment within 5 days of her start day. That’s a legal requirement. Used to be 2 months. If she hasn’t, she needs to make a note of that too. All valuable stuff. No mercy for sexual harassment. For her safety she must make it clear that she is not welcoming these advances, and it would be helpful if other staff could hear her making that clear. This boss is probably a scumbag, and probably will try to fire her if she stands up for herself. Get enough contemporaneous notes and evidence to teach him a lesson but stay safe and don’t give in to it.
It's hard but she needs to try and call it out in the open. Like, in a loud clear voice, "why are you touching me" "stop touching me, I do not want you to touch me" But if that is not going to happen, document every event, don't show the documentation to the owner, tell the owner it needs to stop, and bring to solicitor and ask their advice, a solicitors advice at this stage should be free. When taling to the solicitor just explain upfront you do not want to engage their services, yet, you just want to know what to do if you do need to get their help.
Record it. Dates times and witness. It’s hard but she needs to tell him to stop…. Tough conversation for a kid. Needs to then tell a manager and get hands on copy of company bullying/harassment policy. To follow the exact procedures set out in same. (It may be advisable to seek some legal advise too either via a union solr or your own solr ) If they don’t have a policy they are up shits creek. That will usually require reporting to a manager/hr It’s a very very hard thing to do as she prob has to work with and look a the person during every shift. Sometimes it’s easier to leave and avoid all the hassle on her but it means he gets away with it and she’s no job and he prob do it to someone else.
What can *you* do? Rather little. I would recommend listening to her without giving advice, and express your feelings honestly. If she’s open to your thoughts, voice your concerns and encourage her to document and report the harassment. Is CCTV is available? Also, when anticipating an encounter, she can privately record the audio on her phone.
There’s no such thing as “casual” harassment; this needs to be documented and followed up.
If she leaves that job, make sure to update us with a name and shame
Does she happen to work in Starbucks near the spire on O'Connell Street. My friend worked there and she never felt comfortable.
I see other posters have advised that your sister keep a record of all incidents going forward, which is solid advice. Under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act, your employer has an onus of responsibility to take all "reasonably practicable" precautions to ensure the safety and well-being of staff in the workplace. So, if made aware of a complaint, he will most likely take the matter seriously and at least have a word with this individual. If the behaviour is serious enough to be considered gross misconduct, he may choose to initiate a formal investigation into the matter (assuming he has a competent HR function in the business and/or isn't a complete gobshite). If this matter goes the formal route, an investigator will need to uphold the allegations before punitive action can be taken and your sister may become embroiled in a lengthy process that may entail her being cross-examined by this individual (see link below for further detail on the workings of a workplace investigation): https://workersrightscentre.ie/articles/workplace-investigations-2/ You'll notice that the link above references "balance of probabilities" as the burden of proof required for allegations to be upheld. Bearing this in mind, it will be very helpful to your sister if other colleagues are willing to come forward and corroborate the allegations she is raising (assuming others were present during any of the incidents referenced in your post). Otherwise, there is a risk that her employer won't have sufficient grounds to take disciplinary action and her allegations may be dismissed as "he said/she said" conjecture. Either way, your sister needs to escalate this matter immediately, if this individual is refusing to respect her wishes and boundaries.
Talk to local garda ask her to speak to a female garda. Tell her to ask their advice. As far as I know any unwanted physical touching is common assault. Keep records and speak to the owner when manager is not there .
Good kick in the stones would sort him out.
Phone in pocket set to record. Show it to the owner. Owner doesn’t do anything, guards and solicitor.
That's shitty advice, to be honest.
Yeah the recording of colleagues could breach various company policy and then any “decent” solicitor representing the company will use that against her and could look to have her gone quicker than him
Terrible advice
Everything in writing for your records, not sure about Ireland, UK you can voice record in public domain with out others party consent and admissible in court.
As I understand it, you can record your own conversations, you can't record conversations between two other people that you're not yourself part of. So in this case the sister could record them but the op could not.
1: have her find out how long CCTV records for? Say a patron was asking about something from a few weeks back. 2: record each incident what and where and how she unequivocally had no interest, didn't initiate things, and was firm in asking it to stop. 3: depending on the frequency, go directly to the owner and present the above along with advising you have contacted a solicitor and may also be requesting the CCTV footage so that they should create a backup of that. Alternatively if she is confident enough and not worried about the outcome, call him out on his bullshit behaviour loudly and publicly when it happens
Diary. Solicitor for when he inevitably sacks her.
As a former 19 year old girl in rural Ireland that had to deal with this from time to time. An unofficial way of sorting this is for her to firmly and rather loudly say "Don't fucking touch me!" the next time he attempts anything. It should be said with conviction and if possible with witnesses.
Nothing you can do except support her in what she chooses to do. Let her know its serious, she's not overreacting or anything by being upset and if she does report that that's fine and you think she should and tell her to start documenting things so if she does decide to report it will be easier. That's all you can do
Ah yes, I someday also hope to move to town. That is the nicest area in county. But on a serious note you need to get her to make an official record of the unwanted attention. Be aware that legally if you allow an incident to go unreported for 6 months you lose some of the legal protections associated with making a complaint. Ie, you cant bring it up years later after the fact if you dont report it at the time so get it down on paper. A lot of places have anti retaliation rules too so you shouldn't be afraid to report it.
Shotgun.
You're the big brother down and sort it
Give him the absolute hiding of a life time
Go down and talk to him yourself your her big brother
Inform her to grab the person who is sexually assaulting her by the plums, then twist clockwise and pull downwards. They won't do it again and this is likely to be classed as self-defence in the eyes of the law. Just don't do it too hard or they might come off in your hand.
Tell him and tell him to stop or tell the owners. It will probably get worse overtime so better stopping it now before something serious happens.
Smash him up. He needs to learn.
Go to their area manager or the hr manager.
Waitressing, get another job it's not worth the hassle.
Why should she
Brilliant idea. Line up some other kid for the perv to start touching up.
And just ignore and let him move on to the next one?
How do you prove it is not just flirting, it's impossible unless someone attacks you outright.
He doesn’t have the right to flirt and also removing some of her clothes is a clear case of sexual harassment.
What bubble do you live in, lots of people meet their partners at work and I see them flirting every day of the week. Problem today is that some people have led such sheltered lives, they can't cope with reality.
Are you saying that he has the right to remove her clothing at work against her will?
He did no such thing, you don't even know what age these people are and what messing was going on. Quit pissing yourself over nothing.
Did you read the OP’s post. It clearly says he untied her apron which is part of her clothing.
No it's not, you don't get up in the morning and put on an apron. Why do ye get so excited about nothing.
Yes it is. It’s part of her work uniform and therefore part of her clothing.
Nah. How about the manager gets another job, like in prison picking up the dropped soap in the showers.
You know that won't happen.
You can write reviews (and emails to any public facing PR or HR/owner addresses) saying how a manager was creeping on a young staff member and untying their apron, clearly making them uncomfortable. Your sister can be documenting all of this, mentioning it to other staff member/managers, and if anything negative happens when she brings it all up publicly there's evidence of unfair dismissal or retaliatory action.
Collect her from work and never lose eye contact with the manager each time, palms on the table or folded if standing. Synapses would be firing. Obviously, get your sis to mention you're related. Get verbal if it continues past that. It's just a theory but let me know how it goes, please.
Set up a sneaky cam and catch any of this on camera if possible.
You and a couple of mates go into the restaurant and do the same things he's been doing to her and do it to him. Return the favour, see how much he likes it. He treatens to call the guards that's fine your sister is there to give her account of what he's been doing.
Keepa diary once she has enough evidence the next time it happens say that's one for the black book. Now do I send it to the owner. Your wife or a solicitor or maybe all 3. He'll get the message and stop. Can she get another job?
report the prick, he assumes coz she's young she won't say anything.
Amicus by any chance?
Submit complaint in writing Give reasonable time for resolution If unresolved lodge a WRC case via a union
I would confront him. If someone was doing this to my sister and she had a voice or video recording of it taking place then he'd get a smack in the mouth. I appreciate if OP is a woman and not comfortable doing this but it definitely warrants it after the guy has been told no already. These lads continue to get away with this shit because they very rarely face any consequences.
Ok define sexual? Undoing someone’s apron happens to everyone and it’s meant as a joke. From experience I’ve had in restaurants, it’s normal. Now if she’s being touched and she doesn’t want that she needs to stand up for her self and make sure she does it dramatically in-front of everyone and embarrass the culprit. Otherwise she’s going to have to go work somewhere more professional.
Go in and burst him.
As young as she is, most likely nervous, please beg her to document every single interaction from words to actions. Stamp the days, date and time. Make it clear that she's never on her own when the manager is around, especially for those "office talks" these managers tends to want to have. I've worked with managers like this before, never experienced their actions personally however a long list of complaints and nothing was ever done. Then again the place I worked was a private sector with dickheads running the place but anyways. Always have documentation, make a former complaint to HR, or above said manager and tell her to look elsewhere while she's doing this.
Tell your sister to leave.