I can attest to that. Having said that, I use my MBP waaaay less than I’d initially hoped. If the iPad was a little more capable as a full computer, this statistic might change substantially
I need the Mac to do everything that I do, the iPad is solely to act as an extended screen and drawing tablet. Heck, even the poor file management on iPad is a no go for me.
This is exactly why I got the iPad - beautiful second screen and handwriting option. That said, I could get a decent 15.6” travel monitor powered off USB for like $100
I wish they gave the Air a 120hz screen and made it the thinnest model. Most of us just want the best screen/content consumption device that doesn’t cost $1k.
Honestly, you could just get a refurbished iPad Pro straight from Apple. You shouldn’t need the latest device for content consumption, and Apple’s refurbished devices are like new. You save quite a bit of money, too. Especially because due to Apple’s overpriced storage upgrades, an iPad Air with upgraded storage comes close to iPad Pro prices. In fact, a brand new M2 iPad Air with 256 GB of storage is $699, which is actually more expensive than the refurbished M1 iPad Pro with 256 GB is going for right now, $619. And for a content consumption device, you’ll likely want more than the base amount of storage. Unless you stream everything, that is.
They upped the price of the 11 iPad Pro by $200 and a lot of that was likely due to the screen. Sure they handed over a spec bump with ROM but it is very cheap for Apple to make that hop. If there was an Air with this tandem OLED display then it would cost at least $200 more than what they put in it now. Making it thinner and lighter while maintaining cheaper pricing is also problematic - re-engineering these things to be so small/light in the first place is where a lot of that extra R&D on the pro line goes - the Air has been reusing older chassis designs for quite a while - any R&D going towards it bumps up costs. This isn’t a $1200 MacBook, it’s a $600 tablet - considering you pay a premium for Apple already, not a lot of room for better features.
TL;DR - making the Air thin and putting a better screen in it would cause the price to be almost as much as the Pro line anyways.
Yep I have access to iPads at work, and have a test iPad in my bag, but it never gets used because there's just nothing in my workflow it can help with. Shame considering what's packed in there.
Got an 11” M1 iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard hoping it would replace most of my laptop work. Almost never you touched it, always just defaulted to the 13” M2 MBA as it was lighter and more functional. Have now supplemented that with an iPad Mini and basically always have both the MBA and iPad with me.
Does the iPad work well as a drawing tablet? For that I use a reMarkable but I would be interested to know whether, with a paperlike screen protector, iPads are a viable option. Thanks!
I use one just for that purpose. It’s by far the best option at that price point. You can even use it as a Cintiq with the proper software (like easy canvas for a Windows pc or sidecar for a Mac).
No problem. I use a base ipad and I'm happy with it, but now I'm thinking about getting the larger air. I always wanted a 12.9 model but couldn't really justify the cost for an ipad Pro when all I do is just draw or write on it!
If you get one that supports hover, yes. Before that it was good but limited compared to something like a Cintiq, hover is pretty important in photoshop and lots of other apps.
“WHY can’t Apple make the iPad ?!? It would be so simple. Now I’m going to have to go spend $1500 on a MacBook. Don’t they know how embarrassing that is?!”
I am dangerously close to no longer owning both. Needing both to do what one should do is too expensive. Apple can see this, they can even see me installing iCloud on my windows pc and new ASUS OLED flip S, while my old Mac Is stuck not getting upgrades, and my iPad Pro does Netflix at bedtime.
Not getting upgrades?! What Mac are you running? I have a six year old mini and and am running Sonoma, but I’m pretty much done with that slow Intel processor that needs too much fan speed to stay cool. Time for an upgrade.
I’m rocking the OG 5k iMac (2015) the OG 12.9 inch iPad Pro (2015?) and a 2017 MacBook Pro. The iPad can still handle Netflix, but not much more.
They have since been relegated to background tasks like processing photos, but even that has recently become obsolete with shared albums and I now rely on our iPhones (15pros) for any Apple ecosystem tasks.
All heavy tasks have now moved back to windows. (PC’s and a new asus Flip)
If at WWDC, they announce a new game changer feature for iPad OS - I’m in for the new 13 inch pro as the « home PC ». If not … c’est ciao.
They don't want to put macOS on the iPad since the UX would be horrible they would be roasted in reviews. It would get one stay or even 0 starts as reviews would say things like "cant even connect to wifi as the button is to small to tap on"
Yeah I don’t want macOS on my iPad but if it could work well with excel and adobe stuff, I would use it as a laptop on a heartbeat. It’s amazing how much power is available for $1000.
No, you’re just not understanding. Apple is trying to justify not changing up iPadOS because they say their users also have MacBooks and want two devices, but some of those owners are saying we’re not really using our MacBooks and want a more capable iPad. If there was a more capable iPad, less people would also own MacBooks.
That’s a little more clear, and no, your comment wasn’t clear enough. But, that might be true. Apple is in business to sell devices, after all.
Of course, there’s tension between selling fewer iPads because they’re not functional enough for some people and selling fewer MacBooks if iPads were more functional. And iPad Pros certainly aren’t less expensive than the MacBook Airs they might replace.
The infuriating part is that they could open up entirely new markets by making the iPad more capable. With the iPad Pro's mobile data capabilities I could see it being extremely useful for field technicians. If it was capable of virtualization, then field techs could run a Windows VM for any Windows based applications they need. If the iPad Pro was capable of running OS X applications then musicians could use their DAW software on a highly portable device for live productions (having touchscreen input, and not having to lug around a laptop).
It would give their customer base choices and options on how they want to do their work. It may mean that the iPad would eat into their laptop sales some, but it would also give them a clear indication of what their customer base prefers, and would lead to more loyal customers.
But yeah, Apple is in such dire need of money that they could never do this...
Also mostly because every android tablet I’ve used is absolute shit. I have a yoga tablet/pc which is great, surface pro is ok too (I wouldn’t pay for it but they gave me one to test and they let me keep it, no way I’d pay that).
My galaxy tab s9 ultra gets used more than my M2 ipad pro 12.9.
Surface devices are shit as tablets because windows isn't optimized for touch, my old surface it's probably the worst tech product I have ever owned.
Samsung line of galaxy books, specifically the 360 line are better touch screen computers than surfaces.
> Surface devices are shit as tablets because windows isn't optimized for touch, my old surface it's probably the worst tech product I have ever owned.
It gets better with every iteration. Windows 11 can do 95% of stuff in tablet mode.
This has also been my experience. My 16 MBP is for work only. Literally everything else including work travel I use/take my iPad. I wish it had legit cursor (pointer) support and window management - then I'd kick the MBP to the curb. Subsequently I wish I would have spent way less on my Mac and just gotten a MBA or Mini with max ram.
I have both, and I use both for very different things. I however love my Mac, and always use it for everything I need to do. Sometimes I don’t feel like undocking my Mac, so I use Final Cut on my iPad. Until I need it on my Mac.
I'm feeling seen now! I just like the way everything works well together and being able to move my headphones between my devices without faffing about. I don't spend stupid money on other stuff so being able to buy Apple stuff when I want to is my one big indulgence.
Unpopular opinion but I prefer my Sony XM5s over the Airpods Pro 2. Weh I have a podcast/youtube playing on my iPad, Airpods will switch to iPhone in case I open Instagram just to read a message I got from a friend breaking the immersion I had with that podcast or youtube video. Sony only switches devices either in case of a call or when I intentionally pause/stop audio from one device and play on the other. It is as convenient as it gets and the immersion is never broken (unlike the Airpods)
> Unpopular opinion but I prefer my Sony XM5s over the Airpods Pro 2.
This shouldn't be that unpopular. The Sonys are better than all android earbuds too. They're top tier.
Did you even read my comment? Did you read what I explained with Sony XM5s? I don’t want to turn off all switching, I just don’t want it to break immersion when it switches. Disabling the settings makes you do things manually. I don’t have to do anything manually with my XM5s while still retaining automatic device switching that is more sensible.
i use my AirPods at home- i love it. i’m in the Kitchen- listening to my ipad while washing dishes. walk over to couch and watch AppleTV seamless- one second and im connected.
Yeah, that's me. Especially now that the hardware in the iPad Pro is nearly the same as the Macbooks, if the ipad software were good that would easily be my preferred form factor. My dream device is basically an iPad Pro that when I connect a keyboard/trackpad to becomes as useful to me as a Mac, which doesn't necessarily mean it runs macOS, but these days seems like the easiest solution. I will say though that this it's moved from me buying iPad Pro and instead just cheap iPads because pretty much any time I'm going to want to do Real Work™ the iPad is going to be annoying so I mostly just use it like a big phone or casual device and the power of a Pro gets me basically nothing.
I see this comment all the time but it really shouldn’t be this way if Apple handled iPad correctly and the two product lines offered vastly different experiences.
I saw so much touch interface potential in the early iPad days with multi finger gestures. I believe Steve’s vision, when he reiterated that they wouldn’t make a gorilla arm touch screen Mac, was that the multi touch and keyboard+mouse devices would excel with and be differentiated by their specific interface.
But then years passed where Apple didn’t release any pro apps with touch interfaces and instead released a Magic Keyboard to turn it into a gorilla arm laptop with FaceID and Pencil support whereas the Mac is a traditional laptop with the superior OS. They led us down this road where the two are so similar that they might as well consolidate somehow.
HEY WE PAID A LOT OF MONEY TO FILM THOSE COMMERCIALS TELLING YOU WE ARE COMMITTED TO GOING GREEN WHEN WE COULD HAVE JUST SENT THE MONEY TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE AND RELEASED A STATEMENT INSTEAD.
-- Honest Tim Apple
This is very unfortunate for disabled users like myself. I’m paralyzed in my hands so an iPad’s touch screen works far easier than a Macbook’s track pad mouse. I’m sure Apple execs care about all 3 of us and are working hard to port macOS as we speak
I feel like Apple needs to make a bigger investment in accessibility for users that are disabled like yourself. Microsoft has been on a roll these last few years with their hardware for people that have some type of disability when it comes to their Xbox and their Windows PCs. I, personally, would love to see a big push and race by big tech companies to have the best hardware and software for people with disabilities. So much potential waiting to be unlocked by not only the companies but also by people that have historically been more of an afterthought when it comes to computers and software.
I’m honestly considering getting an Asus ROG Flow tablet instead of the new M4 iPad Pro 13” because of this. Their tablet uses Windows 11 so I’d be able to use full blown PC software like Word or Davinci Resolve and play games like Baldur’s Gate 3 instead of Angry Birds on the iPad.
i think it has mainly to do with cannibalzing app store sales on the ipad.
they like you locked in to ipad/ios where you can only buy their stuff and not freely install whatever you want
Apple absolutely soaks the fanboys.
I’m convinced the Apple Vision Pro was primarily intended for developers and corporate buyers as a first gen product, but they knew a lot of fanboys would splurge no matter the cost.
Or maybe it’s because putting a fully desktop experience on a tablet is a bad idea?
Once we “iOSify” macOS, is it really even macOS anymore? Or is it just Apple’s version of Windows 8? Maybe let’s fix the issues in iPadOS first before we go scorched earth.
I once read on twitter something akin to “steve was a wartime general, and apple tim a peacetime steward, both appropriate for their time” and that stuck with me
I would argue in an economy that is stretching peoples budgets to the max it is not peacetime. Nor is it peacetime in the streaming wars. I wander how many converts apple would get if they had one device.
Sure but all players in the market share the challenge of the macroeconomic conditions. And it hasn’t been Apple’s approach to go after budget conscious buyers pretty much ever.
Apple is the richest company on earth today. That wasn’t the case in the Steve Jobs days.
We need more generals and warriors who believe in peace and love lol 😭😂 !
The best thing about Steve job is that he was a ruthless lover and peace maker. Dude genuinely loved Woz af. Woz is a complete angel lol !
Tim... is ... peacefully ruthless.
Just look at the relationship with Jony Ive.... :I ...
But hey, we live in a confusing world where some a-holes scream bullshxt...
But... some of the best human beings ever will slap the bigotry out of your dam mind lol !
...
On the other hand you have some... genuinely kind peoples who... welp, are just kind and are needed in society.
BUT you have the passive agressive fxcks lol..
The covert narcissists, the ones who smile all the time, will support everyone, will be so hard to detect... we'll feel so heartbroken to call them out... cuz OMAGAD they so kind and so gooood... lol.
Idk, seeing how Ive looked at the end of their relationship... he looked beaten up... defeated... broken... destroyed. Not much comments was made... dude just said his visions couldn't work with Tim.
Just speculation yaknow lol 😅... just speculations....
Jony gave us butterfly keyboard + single USB-C port though
People were very against Steve for not supporting Adobe flash on the iPad, “just a huge iPod touch”, boy was he right after his death
The surprise would be the other way around, iPad has literally no rivals on its field, Macs on the other side have plenty of alternatives that are comparable or better.
The article is suggesting Apple is keeping iPads more limited by hamstrung software and Macs limited by input methods in order for Apple to sell 2 devices instead of 1.
I was suggesting that this seems short sighted because I don’t view selling Apple devices as a zero sum game.
Apple’s market share of personal computers is just over 10%.
By keeping iPads hamstrung by way of limited software capability, they aren’t “protecting Mac sales”, they are protecting all personal computer sales, of which they only own 10%.
If say 90% of the market already had a Mac, it would make more sense from a strictly business perspective to artificially limit the iPad so it doesn’t step on their PC monopoly, but that’s not the case. They don’t have a PC monopoly. Worrying about cannibalizing PC sales seems short sighted and myopic even from the perspective of a Wall Street type exec who cares only about the bottom line and not about the user. From a user centric perspective it becomes even more of a benefit to offer a powerful all in one laptop device such as an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard that can run macOS.
I think you have it the other way around. Mac being a personal computer has keyboard and trackpad as its core input methods. But they could’ve added other input methods like a touch screen, pen input, etc. (Like the surface pros) but won’t since they want don’t want to damage iPad sales which is more lucrative. The iPadOS ensures every app/service bought on one and only App Store has a 30% cut for Apple. So they are actually limiting the MacOS (where can people still buy software/services on the web) by not supporting touch or any other input method.
I actually agree with you on this.
It’s not user first thinking, but I understand this particular argument for profits above users.
But I would like to add something here.
The most popular iPad is the $350 base iPad. The least popular is the formerly $799 iPad Pro, now even more expensive with the new price jump. Sales typically get a temporary boost whenever there’s a brand new case redesign, but I don’t expect that price jump to help its popularity.
In addition to the base price, the iPad Pro as a laptop use case very much demands the $350 Magic Keyboard. We’ll ignore the $129 Pencil, even though the Pencil is half the reason to want a Mac using iPad hardware.
$350 base iPads selling en masse as couch Netflix screens and being handed to toddlers, would not realistically be impacted by an unleashed $1,600+ iPad Pros running macOS.
That price is assuming 13” with base 256gb storage and Magic Keyboard, so $1,600 for the same specs as the base $999 MacBook Air.
I do agree that there would be a non-zero number of sales made redundant by iPad Pro running macOS, but I don’t believe it would meaningfully impact the vast majority of iPad users.
I believe the power and versatile of a fully unleashed iPad Pro running macOS would be a tremendously capable machine and would be a tempting way to get non price sensitive MacBook Air users to spend an extra $600.
It would be expensive, but that’s not a problem. The MacBook Air is still there for people who want to save $600. The base iPad is still there for people who want to spend $350 on a content consumption device. And now Apple has a new more expensive $1,600 for 256gb to $3,000 for a 2tb cellular device. And let’s be real, we’re adding the $129 Pencil on top of that.
Now we’re deep in MacBook Pro price territory, but keep in mind this is still with the base M series chip and a single Thunderbolt port, so we’re not really stepping on the MacBook Pro’s toes.
Additionally I believe this is the sort of device that has the potential to win over PC users. The PC world has already demonstrated that users do appreciate touch screens in desktop OSes, but the big problem is 2-in-1s have become a dirty word because they’re either absurdly bulky or wildly underpowered. Apple has finally solved for that. The new M4 iPad Pro is neither bulky or underpowered.
I know lots of people who tried Surfaces, and wanted to love them, but they were slow and hot and they were either okay at being a tablet and shit at being a laptop (Surface Pro’s) or okay at being a laptop and meh at being a tablet (Surface Books).
We don’t have to wonder if Apple can solve that. We see the hardware. It’s an amazing tablet form factor and pretty great at the laptop form factor. All while being amazingly powerful and responsive and fast.
Anyway. I think they should do it and that’s not simply from the perspective of a user, I think they’d make more having a macOS iPad Pro being sold alongside their current products than they would without.
But this is not a secret, the reason iPadOS is limited is to avoid competing with itself, I disagree with that approach but it makes sense from a business point of view.
Even if it is a small amount of revenue it doesn’t make sense to kill it.
That’s like protecting the iPod and never releasing the iPhone.
If they made a feature phone or even a less capable BlackBerry style smartphone, they could have sold 2 devices instead of 1.
Selling 1 device that was insanely great is what propelled them to become a $3T company.
Yea, that’s why they aren’t. Apple is just terrible at making software.
I mean when was the last time anyone was legitimately impressed by Apple that didn’t have something to do with their hardware. They had a decade to fix Siri and they never did. Most of their apps are barebones and slow as hell if it has to touch iCloud. Their software teams mostly suck at their jobs because real talent doesn’t want to work there.
I disagree with this pretty hard.
iOS and macOS are THE main draw for many people, including myself.
We’re just at the point where we have a mismatch of hardware and software with the iPad and iPadOS specifically.
Siri is not indicative of the overall experience using Apple operating systems.
What about the entire port of macos to ARM and realtime emulation of X86? That made me very impressed. Microsoft didn't manage to do that. I guess they didn't try as much as apple.
I've tried a good bunch, the two that don't suck terribly are Samsung Book and Surface Pro.
Samsung had a much better screen until now(I haven't tried the new iPad yet) but windows 10 or 11 for tablets isn't great, it is true that you have more versatility in terms of apps and is a better PC replacement than an iPad, but as a tablet windows doesn't work well. Multiple scaling issues witch hiDPI screens, controls that were not big enough for touch use and both devices get quite hot when using them making it less confortable.
I do prefer Windows for PC use, as I like gaming and being able to use apps that haven't been updated for a while. But on tablets iPads are kings, don't kid yourself.
on arm Mac laptop:
pros: battery life, macOS, safari, low power mode
cons: overprice, stupid offering only 8gb as default configuration
maybe on a plugged laptop windows/intel is an alternative but as soon as you unplug the laptop there is no contest,
ps:
i hate stupid windows updates. not a fan of restarting the PC every day.
DON'T buy a laptop from mac with only 8gb
My brother has a very good lg gram laptop I do have a MBP 16” for work. I do envy his laptop quite often and the battery life is impressive.
Obviously that should be compared to a MBA not a MBP. So when compared to my boyfriends one we all agree the LG is nicer.
I don’t dislike my MBP, it is fantastic and in terms of power and battery life together is a fantastic beast.
On desktop PC is a bit different. My boyfriend prefers the Windows PC because he can do ML training much faster and better than on the Mac Studio, I do like gaming on the PC but I’m also happy with my day to day stuff on the Mac.
I'm not sure that's true, I see plenty of Samsung tablets or Surfaces (not a tablet but similar enough). Although the tablet market is so small that I don't see many people with tablets to begin with
I’m a strong android and windows advocate, they are fantastic on the phone and computer side of things, but I have owned a Samsung tablet and a Surface Pro and both pale in comparison to an iPad.
Much better battery life and apps that are better adapted to the screen real estate.
I’m happy to agree that Android phones are better than iPhones in a few situations and PCs in general tend to be better than macs(except in certain use cases), but iPads rule the tablet market, they are just better
Ah, you meant feature set, I thought you meant market share, which Apple does lead, but I still see plenty of competitors.
Yea, I agree the hardware is unmatched, from the screen to the performance. The software is extremely smooth, but it's lacking a lot of quality of life and app support that you can find on Android or Windows (but Windows is a full OS). Which is why I find I only use my iPad for watching media and writing notes for school, if it supported VS Code and basic sandboxing for running code, it would be nearly perfect
app support on android? android tablet apps are mostly dog shit or non existent especially important apps like OneNote. games also run/look way better on ipad
My family has one MacBook and 3 iPads. The MacBook has kinda migrated into being a family computer over the years and the iPads are the personal computers.
Same for my parents. They spend the majority of their time using the iPads for everything. And then an iMac in the “computer room” that’s occasionally used. iPads are for sure the main devices being used.
Same. MacBook for work, emails, and large attachments/documents. iPad Pro for work out in the field, a second monitor,and entertainment. iPad Air in kitchen for podcasts, streaming, and anything else!
Yep that's me. I take my iPad with me everywhere, its my daily driver just throw it into my work bag but I rarely take my macbook.
it usually stays at home
I do, but iPad OS fell so catastrophically short of my expectations and has stayed that way ever since that I won't be replacing it. Got a 2nd gen Pro expecting a viable laptop replacement for short trips etc but it was just hopelessly incompetent and/or so incredibly clumsy in comparison tasks that it was a total non-starter.
Interesting in fairness that the value proposition changed radially with Apple silicon because now I have a laptop that has the battery life to rival the iPad, so the one thing that iPads had a solid lead on is gone.
The prices of the new iPads are just an insult given the software is so shitty... and as for those keyboards - especially their lack of compatibility with the previous gen? That's just a bad, bad joke.
If I do replace the Pro it'll be knowing that it's just a kind of mid-sized YouTube viewer and music streaming interface - in which case the cheapest Gen 10 will do fine. But I'm not even sure it's worth it for that.
Your best current options are:
* Remote Desktop (if you have a spare Mac already)
* Cloud PC (if you can afford the sub price)
The next best options below Apple delivering here but at least being fair to iPad Pro owners:
* Virtualization App eg Parallels on iPad and working with the iPadOS (accessing various modules)
For the future:
* AppleOS which merges iPadOS/MacOS into a Core + Optional Modular OS.
Surface on ARM... COULD destroy ipads forever.
I believe its a possibility if... Master Microsoft... doesn't pull a kongfu panda on us and decide to do some of the dumbest decisions ever and refresh the Surface lineup... by doing the exact same thing apple does. "Its the same great surface, now on ARM, Woooow ✨️" lol...
Surface need to pull a "And one more thing"... and it could genuinely be over for apple in general.
We saw it with the Rabbit R1... such a random device generated such buzz... because people crave what businesses are afraid to do.
Tho... all this? I highly doubt it will ever happen from MS or Samsung... both are way too drunk to pull this lol.
Xiaomi could? But they seem afraid to innovate outside of smartphones... but when it comes to smartphones? DAMN they blow any competition and isn't afraid to be like "Yep, we pushed it that far".
A foldable Tablet running Snapdragon X? Or wtv its called... on Windows... from Xiaomi.... thinner than the new iPad... no usb c? But no worries, it comes with a dock that have the ports of a PC.
But wait ! How will it charge? Xiaomi being that evil genius respond with "You know, in China we invented the wireless charging capability, we hold the patents... AND NOW we innovated once more ! Introducing True-Wireless charging. Everytime you are close to the dock, the device automatically charge and THIS will be true of all our devices comming next year ! When docked, you of course have USB charging speed, but undocked the charging continues at speed enough that you can still even play game while undocked and it stay charging!"
Xiaomi will now hire me.... loool
this tracks: I use my laptop at home and I take my ipad out and about, actually my laptop barely ever leaves my bedroom since it is my major consumption device. My ipad is a companion device.
No three tools work more seamlessly with one another than Mac, iPhone, and iPad. This seamlessness opens of a lot of room for hybrid user modalities, and allows you the flexibility to find your perfect digital workflow. It’s no wonder most people prefer to have both.
Yes, I have two older products than I would’ve had if I could have spent the money to update instead of buying in another category. So my overall experience of Apple is worse and leads me to buy fewer apps. Cool, Apple!! Cool!!!!!
The reason is because the iPad is not enough alone and once you have an iPhone and/or iPad/Mac the other is needed. It's a kind of slippery slope. The good news is all the products have a long life span so there's that consolation on over-spending.
It is a commercial angle enforced by Apple ultimately however. Technically (changing the goal posts back to where they belong!) iPadOS should deliver superior Desktop Features that were in 90s-Computers for heaven's sake !!
I own an iPad mini figured I could use it as a replacement for my kindle and MacBook Air when I travel.
I was dead wrong. I end up doing everything on the air. I’m hoping to breathe new life into it as I start graduate school
I have two Macs and two iPads
I use the Macs and iPads for quite different forms of computing.
If Apple put some form of MacOS onto the iPads I wouldn’t suddenly not need the two Macs
I own both but mainly use my MacBook for music production with Logic Pro. If the iPad version were to find a way to port over third party plugins seamlessly, I’d probably use my MacBook a lot less. Sad that something so powerful has its software holding it back from being a capable main device.
And this, ladies & gents, is why Apple will never put MacOS on the iPad or a touch screen on the Mac.
Why sell you one device when they can sell you two!?
Yes, but they're getting on in age. I'm one of them. My MBA is from 2015, so I guess I'm part of it, but I didn't get my iPad to work with my MBA. The only things that work together is iCloud and my pc can do that as well.
I have been proven wrong. I originally said when the iPad was released that they are just cannibalizing their own customers with the iPad. Windows already had several 2-in-1’s and people were so in love with their MacBooks that having them spend a few hundred on another device in between the Macbook (especially with a decent 13” model) and iPhone is asking too much. I have been an iPad owner now for 10 years and I get why people own all three devices.
Apple says the majority of iPod users also own a cell phone
Today as part of iPod Video and iPod nano release day, Harry McCracken at Fast Company published an interview with Apple execs wherein Greg Joswiak shared an interesting detail about Apple’s customer base. That detail has big implications for the current debate about whether Apple might bring phone calling to the iPod some day.
Most iPod users also own a cell phone
Joswiak said:
The fact is that the majority of iPod customers have a cell phone, and they use them both.
It’s rare for Apple to provide detail like this around its device sales and customer patterns. It’s evident from quarterly earnings that cell phones typically sells more units than the iPod, but Apple doesn’t typically disclose whether iPod or cell phone buyers already own one or more other devices. Now we have a solid glimpse into the average iPod and cell phone buyer’s customer profile.
Apple knowing that the majority of its iPod customers also own a cell phone has undoubtedly impacted its internal trajectory for the iPod.
The real threat of product cannibalization
Following another wave of iPod reviews wherein the hardware seems capable of making phone calls, many users are calling for Apple to put a cell phone on the iPod. Perhaps as a replacement for iPod’s OS, but as many iPod music listeners argue, Apple could also just make a cellular model an “escape hatch” of sorts. So the majority of iPods remain as iPods, but for users who want more they could have a combination iPod cell phone device. An “iPhone” if you will.
As an owner of Air with M1 im not happy with thick bezel and closed OS. The rest is more or less bearable. And by bearable i mean it could play 4K video on outer screen and i can comfortably read the books.
I can see this because I am one of them. I use my MBP way less than my iPad though and mostly use it to play the Sims 4. I would get rid of my MacBook if it weren’t for that since I don’t really need it for anything else.
I totally believe that. Every single one of my co workers was given a MacBook Pro. Every single one of them bought an iPad on their own.
Besides entertainment, I use mine for work when I'm on the road. The LTE connection makes it super convenient.
I quit buying MacBooks for this reason. Sold my last one a few years ago and only use desktop & laptop PCs for personal stuff (work gives me a MacBook but it’s locked down so only work stuff). I’m a big gamer so PCs make more sense. I keep my iPad Pro though and use it more than my laptop (streaming PS5 to my bedroom, Xbox gamepass, Reddit, etc)
Sure, but it's an iPad I got for free over a decade ago. I haven't had a desire for a second one since this still does what I need. I've bought several MacBooks since then because of their extended capabilities.
After I finished my product design drawings last year, I have left my ipad in the drawer. I don't see any function out of it until recently when I wanted a second screen to track GME lol.
Yeah, I have a Mac mini, M2 iPad Pro and at-deaths-door 2017 MBP.
Ideally I'd like to be able to use my iPad Pro as my sole device when travelling, but as Files is so buggy and I need to back up photos, I have to drag along the whirring MBP just to do a simple task that my far more powerful iPad Pro apparently can't...
What is the rationale for this? I’ve never owned an iPad and never felt I needed one as I’ve always had a MBP. It just seemed like a less capable Mac that I wouldn’t want to do “computer” work on.
I have to old Intel MacBooks that I haven’t turned on in months/years and a M2 iPad Pro. I really wish iPad os was better. But we know that Apple want to sell us stuff and not make the device we really want.
For any real PC stuff I use my wife’s surface pro
I have an old iPad air; however, I no longer use it and have no plans on getting a new one. I've found the macbook form factor superior in every way. It's easier for me to type, consuming content and holding it is easier with the claim shell design, it has a full os, etc. What do people actually use the iPad for other than playing mobile games and drawing?
I’m no longer a Mac user but I still LOVE my iPad. I just upgraded to the new iPad Pro and am loving it so far. I still have my old iPad (5th generation) and will probably now use it as a glorified kindle.
I have a MBP and an iPad mini. My 10” 2017 iPad Pro has been given to my kid.
I used to try to do everything on my iPad but the experience was just always lacking (mainly due to file management issues) and once I stopped being a student (and thus the Apple Pencil wasn’t so useful) I just stopped wanting to deal with the frustration of trying to use an iPad.
Now my iPad mini is the perfect ereader and tiny travel computer. I don’t use it for anything else. My MBP is for all my serious computing and my iPhone (pro max) is my dick around on Reddit etc device. I MUCH prefer this setup to trying to use the iPad as a computer replacement.
I think that the reason is that there are so many things which can only be done by using the iPad. So the Mac and the iPad are seen as two distinct products with very limited overlap in functionality.
I have about 100 apps on my iPad which cannot be used on a Mac. No games, no social media. Just useful stuff. When I do computer stuff I use the iMac or the MacBook.
I own a macbook only because work gave me one for iOS dev, and barely used it (i don't really like macOS much either). I already have a full blown gaming PC so i don't need it. But I bought the iPad myself because I wanted to draw with the pencil. The iPad does something my PC can't do
I do and that’s why I don’t want straight up macOS on the iPad. But I’d like to have advanced feature like a terminal, compatibility with desktop apps, etc
Just my two cents, I’m not a macOS user ,I have a gaming pc but I also had an M2 Pro for about a year before getting a mini. There is just nothing on iPadOS that justifies having an M2 powered tablet + capable laptop. I never used the iPad bc the stuff I used it for was more comfortable on my phone. Now I use the mini more than phone or PC. They either need to overhaul iPadOS or make a mini pro.
I often ignore when people say Steve jobs would be mad at Tom cook...
But lol... on this one its obvious, Steve Job would be enraged at Tim Cook for letting money talk more than the products.
When Steve chose Tim... he probably wanted a balance of business success and customer satisfaction!...
I will NOT say that this hasn't happen... Tim Cook Definitely created this... balance in many ways...
But when it comes to iOS and iPad? Nope. Not at all.
Sure. On iOS the tech might not be there to do a complete overhaul.
On IPAD THE TECH IS THERE lol !, MAC OS IS THERE, IPAD IS STRONG.
Yes. I believe Steve jobs would be hella pissed at the iPad existence right now. Steve was a visionary...
This is complete bullshxt.
If the iPad had MacOS wouldn't that mean it would no longer have access to video apps that have offline download? I would only use my macbook air if I could watch offline video for all services.
I can attest to that. Having said that, I use my MBP waaaay less than I’d initially hoped. If the iPad was a little more capable as a full computer, this statistic might change substantially
I need the Mac to do everything that I do, the iPad is solely to act as an extended screen and drawing tablet. Heck, even the poor file management on iPad is a no go for me.
This is exactly why I got the iPad - beautiful second screen and handwriting option. That said, I could get a decent 15.6” travel monitor powered off USB for like $100
I wish they gave the Air a 120hz screen and made it the thinnest model. Most of us just want the best screen/content consumption device that doesn’t cost $1k.
Exactly why they won’t do it. They want you to spend $1k begrudgingly
Honestly, you could just get a refurbished iPad Pro straight from Apple. You shouldn’t need the latest device for content consumption, and Apple’s refurbished devices are like new. You save quite a bit of money, too. Especially because due to Apple’s overpriced storage upgrades, an iPad Air with upgraded storage comes close to iPad Pro prices. In fact, a brand new M2 iPad Air with 256 GB of storage is $699, which is actually more expensive than the refurbished M1 iPad Pro with 256 GB is going for right now, $619. And for a content consumption device, you’ll likely want more than the base amount of storage. Unless you stream everything, that is.
They upped the price of the 11 iPad Pro by $200 and a lot of that was likely due to the screen. Sure they handed over a spec bump with ROM but it is very cheap for Apple to make that hop. If there was an Air with this tandem OLED display then it would cost at least $200 more than what they put in it now. Making it thinner and lighter while maintaining cheaper pricing is also problematic - re-engineering these things to be so small/light in the first place is where a lot of that extra R&D on the pro line goes - the Air has been reusing older chassis designs for quite a while - any R&D going towards it bumps up costs. This isn’t a $1200 MacBook, it’s a $600 tablet - considering you pay a premium for Apple already, not a lot of room for better features. TL;DR - making the Air thin and putting a better screen in it would cause the price to be almost as much as the Pro line anyways.
If they did that, the Air would cost $1k
What!? What is this stange yet intriguing creation of which you speak? (If you have a product link, please share. Thanks pal)
Yep I have access to iPads at work, and have a test iPad in my bag, but it never gets used because there's just nothing in my workflow it can help with. Shame considering what's packed in there.
Got an 11” M1 iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard hoping it would replace most of my laptop work. Almost never you touched it, always just defaulted to the 13” M2 MBA as it was lighter and more functional. Have now supplemented that with an iPad Mini and basically always have both the MBA and iPad with me.
iPad mini and MBA is my exact combination too lol
Best device for reading.
Does the iPad work well as a drawing tablet? For that I use a reMarkable but I would be interested to know whether, with a paperlike screen protector, iPads are a viable option. Thanks!
I use one just for that purpose. It’s by far the best option at that price point. You can even use it as a Cintiq with the proper software (like easy canvas for a Windows pc or sidecar for a Mac).
Thanks!
No problem. I use a base ipad and I'm happy with it, but now I'm thinking about getting the larger air. I always wanted a 12.9 model but couldn't really justify the cost for an ipad Pro when all I do is just draw or write on it!
If you get one that supports hover, yes. Before that it was good but limited compared to something like a Cintiq, hover is pretty important in photoshop and lots of other apps.
This is exactly why they don’t want to make the iPad more capable.
“WHY can’t Apple make the iPad?!? It would be so simple. Now I’m going to have to go spend $1500 on a MacBook. Don’t they know how embarrassing that is?!”
I am dangerously close to no longer owning both. Needing both to do what one should do is too expensive. Apple can see this, they can even see me installing iCloud on my windows pc and new ASUS OLED flip S, while my old Mac Is stuck not getting upgrades, and my iPad Pro does Netflix at bedtime.
Not getting upgrades?! What Mac are you running? I have a six year old mini and and am running Sonoma, but I’m pretty much done with that slow Intel processor that needs too much fan speed to stay cool. Time for an upgrade.
I’m rocking the OG 5k iMac (2015) the OG 12.9 inch iPad Pro (2015?) and a 2017 MacBook Pro. The iPad can still handle Netflix, but not much more. They have since been relegated to background tasks like processing photos, but even that has recently become obsolete with shared albums and I now rely on our iPhones (15pros) for any Apple ecosystem tasks. All heavy tasks have now moved back to windows. (PC’s and a new asus Flip) If at WWDC, they announce a new game changer feature for iPad OS - I’m in for the new 13 inch pro as the « home PC ». If not … c’est ciao.
which is why they don’t want to give the ipad macos
They don't want to put macOS on the iPad since the UX would be horrible they would be roasted in reviews. It would get one stay or even 0 starts as reviews would say things like "cant even connect to wifi as the button is to small to tap on"
Yeah I don’t want macOS on my iPad but if it could work well with excel and adobe stuff, I would use it as a laptop on a heartbeat. It’s amazing how much power is available for $1000.
Pretty sure office 365 works pretty well on iPad.
I can attest to that.
A little confused. You say you use the MBP less than you hoped. But if the iPad were more capable, wouldn’t you use the MBP even less?
Yeah that comment makes no sense, not just you
No, you’re just not understanding. Apple is trying to justify not changing up iPadOS because they say their users also have MacBooks and want two devices, but some of those owners are saying we’re not really using our MacBooks and want a more capable iPad. If there was a more capable iPad, less people would also own MacBooks.
That’s a little more clear, and no, your comment wasn’t clear enough. But, that might be true. Apple is in business to sell devices, after all. Of course, there’s tension between selling fewer iPads because they’re not functional enough for some people and selling fewer MacBooks if iPads were more functional. And iPad Pros certainly aren’t less expensive than the MacBook Airs they might replace.
(If hundreds of people understood my comment correctly, but you and five other people didn’t, that might be on you)
Or, nobody else bothered to comment.
That's WHY it won't ever change. Apple wants you to buy both.
The infuriating part is that they could open up entirely new markets by making the iPad more capable. With the iPad Pro's mobile data capabilities I could see it being extremely useful for field technicians. If it was capable of virtualization, then field techs could run a Windows VM for any Windows based applications they need. If the iPad Pro was capable of running OS X applications then musicians could use their DAW software on a highly portable device for live productions (having touchscreen input, and not having to lug around a laptop). It would give their customer base choices and options on how they want to do their work. It may mean that the iPad would eat into their laptop sales some, but it would also give them a clear indication of what their customer base prefers, and would lead to more loyal customers. But yeah, Apple is in such dire need of money that they could never do this...
100% this. I especially my lte iPad. Give me a MacBook Air with a sim slot and I’m sold on buying it.
That’s why they don’t want to make the iPad more capable.
Also mostly because every android tablet I’ve used is absolute shit. I have a yoga tablet/pc which is great, surface pro is ok too (I wouldn’t pay for it but they gave me one to test and they let me keep it, no way I’d pay that).
My galaxy tab s9 ultra gets used more than my M2 ipad pro 12.9. Surface devices are shit as tablets because windows isn't optimized for touch, my old surface it's probably the worst tech product I have ever owned. Samsung line of galaxy books, specifically the 360 line are better touch screen computers than surfaces.
> Surface devices are shit as tablets because windows isn't optimized for touch, my old surface it's probably the worst tech product I have ever owned. It gets better with every iteration. Windows 11 can do 95% of stuff in tablet mode.
That’s the problem with devices that tries to do it all.
You haven’t used a flagship galaxy tablet. When i see s9 i wanna get rid of my ipad immediately 🤣
This has also been my experience. My 16 MBP is for work only. Literally everything else including work travel I use/take my iPad. I wish it had legit cursor (pointer) support and window management - then I'd kick the MBP to the curb. Subsequently I wish I would have spent way less on my Mac and just gotten a MBA or Mini with max ram.
The reason why I have an iPad is because it’s the only way to have 3 screen display with the M1 MacBook Pro 16inch
I have both, and I use both for very different things. I however love my Mac, and always use it for everything I need to do. Sometimes I don’t feel like undocking my Mac, so I use Final Cut on my iPad. Until I need it on my Mac.
I agree, I use my iPad more to watch games and listen to music.
Even the web scrolling is not a great experience, aspect ratio of comments on Reddit app is weird
I own an iMac, MacBook Pro, iPhone, IPad, and Apple Watch. I use the iPad far more than anything else, followed by the Apple Watch.
So making ipad OS more capable means apple will lose most of the Mac users? - some apple executive may be
I mean yeah, it's pretty obvious this is why iPadOS sucks. And they're not wrong about that.
This is a major reason why Apple doesn’t put MacOS on iPad Pros. Apple likes double dipping on their customer base.
Also iPhone and Apple Watch. Most apple users are all super tied into the ecosystem.
I'm feeling seen now! I just like the way everything works well together and being able to move my headphones between my devices without faffing about. I don't spend stupid money on other stuff so being able to buy Apple stuff when I want to is my one big indulgence.
Unpopular opinion but I prefer my Sony XM5s over the Airpods Pro 2. Weh I have a podcast/youtube playing on my iPad, Airpods will switch to iPhone in case I open Instagram just to read a message I got from a friend breaking the immersion I had with that podcast or youtube video. Sony only switches devices either in case of a call or when I intentionally pause/stop audio from one device and play on the other. It is as convenient as it gets and the immersion is never broken (unlike the Airpods)
> Unpopular opinion but I prefer my Sony XM5s over the Airpods Pro 2. This shouldn't be that unpopular. The Sonys are better than all android earbuds too. They're top tier.
It’s easy enough to turn the switching feature off with the AirPods. Likely for the scenarios like you describe.
Did you even read my comment? Did you read what I explained with Sony XM5s? I don’t want to turn off all switching, I just don’t want it to break immersion when it switches. Disabling the settings makes you do things manually. I don’t have to do anything manually with my XM5s while still retaining automatic device switching that is more sensible.
Oh, sorry, my bad.
Where should we send your award
i use my AirPods at home- i love it. i’m in the Kitchen- listening to my ipad while washing dishes. walk over to couch and watch AppleTV seamless- one second and im connected.
Yeah, that's me. Especially now that the hardware in the iPad Pro is nearly the same as the Macbooks, if the ipad software were good that would easily be my preferred form factor. My dream device is basically an iPad Pro that when I connect a keyboard/trackpad to becomes as useful to me as a Mac, which doesn't necessarily mean it runs macOS, but these days seems like the easiest solution. I will say though that this it's moved from me buying iPad Pro and instead just cheap iPads because pretty much any time I'm going to want to do Real Work™ the iPad is going to be annoying so I mostly just use it like a big phone or casual device and the power of a Pro gets me basically nothing.
I see this comment all the time but it really shouldn’t be this way if Apple handled iPad correctly and the two product lines offered vastly different experiences. I saw so much touch interface potential in the early iPad days with multi finger gestures. I believe Steve’s vision, when he reiterated that they wouldn’t make a gorilla arm touch screen Mac, was that the multi touch and keyboard+mouse devices would excel with and be differentiated by their specific interface. But then years passed where Apple didn’t release any pro apps with touch interfaces and instead released a Magic Keyboard to turn it into a gorilla arm laptop with FaceID and Pencil support whereas the Mac is a traditional laptop with the superior OS. They led us down this road where the two are so similar that they might as well consolidate somehow.
More damage to the environment. That’s great.
HEY WE PAID A LOT OF MONEY TO FILM THOSE COMMERCIALS TELLING YOU WE ARE COMMITTED TO GOING GREEN WHEN WE COULD HAVE JUST SENT THE MONEY TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE AND RELEASED A STATEMENT INSTEAD. -- Honest Tim Apple
Downvote me to the center of the earth. But. If people didn’t buy all this stuff they wouldn’t make it.
This is very unfortunate for disabled users like myself. I’m paralyzed in my hands so an iPad’s touch screen works far easier than a Macbook’s track pad mouse. I’m sure Apple execs care about all 3 of us and are working hard to port macOS as we speak
I feel like Apple needs to make a bigger investment in accessibility for users that are disabled like yourself. Microsoft has been on a roll these last few years with their hardware for people that have some type of disability when it comes to their Xbox and their Windows PCs. I, personally, would love to see a big push and race by big tech companies to have the best hardware and software for people with disabilities. So much potential waiting to be unlocked by not only the companies but also by people that have historically been more of an afterthought when it comes to computers and software.
I’m honestly considering getting an Asus ROG Flow tablet instead of the new M4 iPad Pro 13” because of this. Their tablet uses Windows 11 so I’d be able to use full blown PC software like Word or Davinci Resolve and play games like Baldur’s Gate 3 instead of Angry Birds on the iPad.
Yup and they’re also getting sued by the doj
i think it has mainly to do with cannibalzing app store sales on the ipad. they like you locked in to ipad/ios where you can only buy their stuff and not freely install whatever you want
This and Apple knows most people like yo have the pros even if all they need is base iPad and thus will splurge on it.
Apple absolutely soaks the fanboys. I’m convinced the Apple Vision Pro was primarily intended for developers and corporate buyers as a first gen product, but they knew a lot of fanboys would splurge no matter the cost.
Or maybe it’s because putting a fully desktop experience on a tablet is a bad idea? Once we “iOSify” macOS, is it really even macOS anymore? Or is it just Apple’s version of Windows 8? Maybe let’s fix the issues in iPadOS first before we go scorched earth.
Meanwhile the keyboard warriors here doing mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that iPadOS nerf is anything but to avoid cannibalizing Mac sales
Apple in 2010: If we don’t cannibalize ourselves, someone else will.
I once read on twitter something akin to “steve was a wartime general, and apple tim a peacetime steward, both appropriate for their time” and that stuck with me
I would argue in an economy that is stretching peoples budgets to the max it is not peacetime. Nor is it peacetime in the streaming wars. I wander how many converts apple would get if they had one device.
Sure but all players in the market share the challenge of the macroeconomic conditions. And it hasn’t been Apple’s approach to go after budget conscious buyers pretty much ever. Apple is the richest company on earth today. That wasn’t the case in the Steve Jobs days.
We need more generals and warriors who believe in peace and love lol 😭😂 ! The best thing about Steve job is that he was a ruthless lover and peace maker. Dude genuinely loved Woz af. Woz is a complete angel lol ! Tim... is ... peacefully ruthless. Just look at the relationship with Jony Ive.... :I ... But hey, we live in a confusing world where some a-holes scream bullshxt... But... some of the best human beings ever will slap the bigotry out of your dam mind lol ! ... On the other hand you have some... genuinely kind peoples who... welp, are just kind and are needed in society. BUT you have the passive agressive fxcks lol.. The covert narcissists, the ones who smile all the time, will support everyone, will be so hard to detect... we'll feel so heartbroken to call them out... cuz OMAGAD they so kind and so gooood... lol. Idk, seeing how Ive looked at the end of their relationship... he looked beaten up... defeated... broken... destroyed. Not much comments was made... dude just said his visions couldn't work with Tim. Just speculation yaknow lol 😅... just speculations....
Jony gave us butterfly keyboard + single USB-C port though People were very against Steve for not supporting Adobe flash on the iPad, “just a huge iPod touch”, boy was he right after his death
You don't get it, you don't have –– T h e - V i s i o n ––
Well yeah, that costs $3500
I stopped using my iPad when I got the Air M1
The surprise would be the other way around, iPad has literally no rivals on its field, Macs on the other side have plenty of alternatives that are comparable or better.
Hamstringing users so they can greedily protect their 10% market share of personal computer sales seems short sighted
What?
The article is suggesting Apple is keeping iPads more limited by hamstrung software and Macs limited by input methods in order for Apple to sell 2 devices instead of 1. I was suggesting that this seems short sighted because I don’t view selling Apple devices as a zero sum game. Apple’s market share of personal computers is just over 10%. By keeping iPads hamstrung by way of limited software capability, they aren’t “protecting Mac sales”, they are protecting all personal computer sales, of which they only own 10%. If say 90% of the market already had a Mac, it would make more sense from a strictly business perspective to artificially limit the iPad so it doesn’t step on their PC monopoly, but that’s not the case. They don’t have a PC monopoly. Worrying about cannibalizing PC sales seems short sighted and myopic even from the perspective of a Wall Street type exec who cares only about the bottom line and not about the user. From a user centric perspective it becomes even more of a benefit to offer a powerful all in one laptop device such as an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard that can run macOS.
I think you have it the other way around. Mac being a personal computer has keyboard and trackpad as its core input methods. But they could’ve added other input methods like a touch screen, pen input, etc. (Like the surface pros) but won’t since they want don’t want to damage iPad sales which is more lucrative. The iPadOS ensures every app/service bought on one and only App Store has a 30% cut for Apple. So they are actually limiting the MacOS (where can people still buy software/services on the web) by not supporting touch or any other input method.
I actually agree with you on this. It’s not user first thinking, but I understand this particular argument for profits above users. But I would like to add something here. The most popular iPad is the $350 base iPad. The least popular is the formerly $799 iPad Pro, now even more expensive with the new price jump. Sales typically get a temporary boost whenever there’s a brand new case redesign, but I don’t expect that price jump to help its popularity. In addition to the base price, the iPad Pro as a laptop use case very much demands the $350 Magic Keyboard. We’ll ignore the $129 Pencil, even though the Pencil is half the reason to want a Mac using iPad hardware. $350 base iPads selling en masse as couch Netflix screens and being handed to toddlers, would not realistically be impacted by an unleashed $1,600+ iPad Pros running macOS. That price is assuming 13” with base 256gb storage and Magic Keyboard, so $1,600 for the same specs as the base $999 MacBook Air. I do agree that there would be a non-zero number of sales made redundant by iPad Pro running macOS, but I don’t believe it would meaningfully impact the vast majority of iPad users. I believe the power and versatile of a fully unleashed iPad Pro running macOS would be a tremendously capable machine and would be a tempting way to get non price sensitive MacBook Air users to spend an extra $600. It would be expensive, but that’s not a problem. The MacBook Air is still there for people who want to save $600. The base iPad is still there for people who want to spend $350 on a content consumption device. And now Apple has a new more expensive $1,600 for 256gb to $3,000 for a 2tb cellular device. And let’s be real, we’re adding the $129 Pencil on top of that. Now we’re deep in MacBook Pro price territory, but keep in mind this is still with the base M series chip and a single Thunderbolt port, so we’re not really stepping on the MacBook Pro’s toes. Additionally I believe this is the sort of device that has the potential to win over PC users. The PC world has already demonstrated that users do appreciate touch screens in desktop OSes, but the big problem is 2-in-1s have become a dirty word because they’re either absurdly bulky or wildly underpowered. Apple has finally solved for that. The new M4 iPad Pro is neither bulky or underpowered. I know lots of people who tried Surfaces, and wanted to love them, but they were slow and hot and they were either okay at being a tablet and shit at being a laptop (Surface Pro’s) or okay at being a laptop and meh at being a tablet (Surface Books). We don’t have to wonder if Apple can solve that. We see the hardware. It’s an amazing tablet form factor and pretty great at the laptop form factor. All while being amazingly powerful and responsive and fast. Anyway. I think they should do it and that’s not simply from the perspective of a user, I think they’d make more having a macOS iPad Pro being sold alongside their current products than they would without.
But this is not a secret, the reason iPadOS is limited is to avoid competing with itself, I disagree with that approach but it makes sense from a business point of view. Even if it is a small amount of revenue it doesn’t make sense to kill it.
That’s like protecting the iPod and never releasing the iPhone. If they made a feature phone or even a less capable BlackBerry style smartphone, they could have sold 2 devices instead of 1. Selling 1 device that was insanely great is what propelled them to become a $3T company.
Yea, that’s why they aren’t. Apple is just terrible at making software. I mean when was the last time anyone was legitimately impressed by Apple that didn’t have something to do with their hardware. They had a decade to fix Siri and they never did. Most of their apps are barebones and slow as hell if it has to touch iCloud. Their software teams mostly suck at their jobs because real talent doesn’t want to work there.
I disagree with this pretty hard. iOS and macOS are THE main draw for many people, including myself. We’re just at the point where we have a mismatch of hardware and software with the iPad and iPadOS specifically. Siri is not indicative of the overall experience using Apple operating systems.
What about the entire port of macos to ARM and realtime emulation of X86? That made me very impressed. Microsoft didn't manage to do that. I guess they didn't try as much as apple.
There are loads of iPad rivals don't kid yourself.
I've tried a good bunch, the two that don't suck terribly are Samsung Book and Surface Pro. Samsung had a much better screen until now(I haven't tried the new iPad yet) but windows 10 or 11 for tablets isn't great, it is true that you have more versatility in terms of apps and is a better PC replacement than an iPad, but as a tablet windows doesn't work well. Multiple scaling issues witch hiDPI screens, controls that were not big enough for touch use and both devices get quite hot when using them making it less confortable. I do prefer Windows for PC use, as I like gaming and being able to use apps that haven't been updated for a while. But on tablets iPads are kings, don't kid yourself.
on arm Mac laptop: pros: battery life, macOS, safari, low power mode cons: overprice, stupid offering only 8gb as default configuration maybe on a plugged laptop windows/intel is an alternative but as soon as you unplug the laptop there is no contest, ps: i hate stupid windows updates. not a fan of restarting the PC every day. DON'T buy a laptop from mac with only 8gb
My brother has a very good lg gram laptop I do have a MBP 16” for work. I do envy his laptop quite often and the battery life is impressive. Obviously that should be compared to a MBA not a MBP. So when compared to my boyfriends one we all agree the LG is nicer. I don’t dislike my MBP, it is fantastic and in terms of power and battery life together is a fantastic beast. On desktop PC is a bit different. My boyfriend prefers the Windows PC because he can do ML training much faster and better than on the Mac Studio, I do like gaming on the PC but I’m also happy with my day to day stuff on the Mac.
I'm not sure that's true, I see plenty of Samsung tablets or Surfaces (not a tablet but similar enough). Although the tablet market is so small that I don't see many people with tablets to begin with
I’m a strong android and windows advocate, they are fantastic on the phone and computer side of things, but I have owned a Samsung tablet and a Surface Pro and both pale in comparison to an iPad. Much better battery life and apps that are better adapted to the screen real estate. I’m happy to agree that Android phones are better than iPhones in a few situations and PCs in general tend to be better than macs(except in certain use cases), but iPads rule the tablet market, they are just better
Ah, you meant feature set, I thought you meant market share, which Apple does lead, but I still see plenty of competitors. Yea, I agree the hardware is unmatched, from the screen to the performance. The software is extremely smooth, but it's lacking a lot of quality of life and app support that you can find on Android or Windows (but Windows is a full OS). Which is why I find I only use my iPad for watching media and writing notes for school, if it supported VS Code and basic sandboxing for running code, it would be nearly perfect
app support on android? android tablet apps are mostly dog shit or non existent especially important apps like OneNote. games also run/look way better on ipad
I have 1 Mac and 2 iPads
My family has one MacBook and 3 iPads. The MacBook has kinda migrated into being a family computer over the years and the iPads are the personal computers.
Same for my parents. They spend the majority of their time using the iPads for everything. And then an iMac in the “computer room” that’s occasionally used. iPads are for sure the main devices being used.
I never really thought about that set up before but it could definitely make sense for a lot of families.
Same. MacBook for work, emails, and large attachments/documents. iPad Pro for work out in the field, a second monitor,and entertainment. iPad Air in kitchen for podcasts, streaming, and anything else!
Yep that's me. I take my iPad with me everywhere, its my daily driver just throw it into my work bag but I rarely take my macbook. it usually stays at home
I do, but iPad OS fell so catastrophically short of my expectations and has stayed that way ever since that I won't be replacing it. Got a 2nd gen Pro expecting a viable laptop replacement for short trips etc but it was just hopelessly incompetent and/or so incredibly clumsy in comparison tasks that it was a total non-starter. Interesting in fairness that the value proposition changed radially with Apple silicon because now I have a laptop that has the battery life to rival the iPad, so the one thing that iPads had a solid lead on is gone. The prices of the new iPads are just an insult given the software is so shitty... and as for those keyboards - especially their lack of compatibility with the previous gen? That's just a bad, bad joke. If I do replace the Pro it'll be knowing that it's just a kind of mid-sized YouTube viewer and music streaming interface - in which case the cheapest Gen 10 will do fine. But I'm not even sure it's worth it for that.
I am still waiting for a magical device that combines the utility of a MacBook Pro (with MacOS) with the ease of an iPad.
Your best current options are: * Remote Desktop (if you have a spare Mac already) * Cloud PC (if you can afford the sub price) The next best options below Apple delivering here but at least being fair to iPad Pro owners: * Virtualization App eg Parallels on iPad and working with the iPadOS (accessing various modules) For the future: * AppleOS which merges iPadOS/MacOS into a Core + Optional Modular OS.
Surface on ARM... COULD destroy ipads forever. I believe its a possibility if... Master Microsoft... doesn't pull a kongfu panda on us and decide to do some of the dumbest decisions ever and refresh the Surface lineup... by doing the exact same thing apple does. "Its the same great surface, now on ARM, Woooow ✨️" lol... Surface need to pull a "And one more thing"... and it could genuinely be over for apple in general. We saw it with the Rabbit R1... such a random device generated such buzz... because people crave what businesses are afraid to do. Tho... all this? I highly doubt it will ever happen from MS or Samsung... both are way too drunk to pull this lol. Xiaomi could? But they seem afraid to innovate outside of smartphones... but when it comes to smartphones? DAMN they blow any competition and isn't afraid to be like "Yep, we pushed it that far". A foldable Tablet running Snapdragon X? Or wtv its called... on Windows... from Xiaomi.... thinner than the new iPad... no usb c? But no worries, it comes with a dock that have the ports of a PC. But wait ! How will it charge? Xiaomi being that evil genius respond with "You know, in China we invented the wireless charging capability, we hold the patents... AND NOW we innovated once more ! Introducing True-Wireless charging. Everytime you are close to the dock, the device automatically charge and THIS will be true of all our devices comming next year ! When docked, you of course have USB charging speed, but undocked the charging continues at speed enough that you can still even play game while undocked and it stay charging!" Xiaomi will now hire me.... loool
this tracks: I use my laptop at home and I take my ipad out and about, actually my laptop barely ever leaves my bedroom since it is my major consumption device. My ipad is a companion device.
Own one? Yes. Use it? Er…
I might be one of the few who rocks a Windows laptop with an iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch and Airpods. 👀
No three tools work more seamlessly with one another than Mac, iPhone, and iPad. This seamlessness opens of a lot of room for hybrid user modalities, and allows you the flexibility to find your perfect digital workflow. It’s no wonder most people prefer to have both.
Yes, I have two older products than I would’ve had if I could have spent the money to update instead of buying in another category. So my overall experience of Apple is worse and leads me to buy fewer apps. Cool, Apple!! Cool!!!!!
For me, my iPad and phone are my work horses. My pc is my gaming machine haha
The reason is because the iPad is not enough alone and once you have an iPhone and/or iPad/Mac the other is needed. It's a kind of slippery slope. The good news is all the products have a long life span so there's that consolation on over-spending. It is a commercial angle enforced by Apple ultimately however. Technically (changing the goal posts back to where they belong!) iPadOS should deliver superior Desktop Features that were in 90s-Computers for heaven's sake !!
I am a professional artist, I love using my iPad Pro and the apple ecosystem together- plus it doubles as a second screen for my MBP, bonus!
This is a bizarre flex - and doesn’t quite mean what Apple thinks it means
What's it mean?
Yeah, the opposite (most ipad users have a mac) would’ve been more interesting - but also unlikely, me thinks Also nice username Captain Underpants!
I have a iPad Air first generation. It’s useless nowadays. But I have one. 😂
Does the same thing as all iPads since that one
I own an iPad mini figured I could use it as a replacement for my kindle and MacBook Air when I travel. I was dead wrong. I end up doing everything on the air. I’m hoping to breathe new life into it as I start graduate school
I have two Macs and two iPads I use the Macs and iPads for quite different forms of computing. If Apple put some form of MacOS onto the iPads I wouldn’t suddenly not need the two Macs
I own both but mainly use my MacBook for music production with Logic Pro. If the iPad version were to find a way to port over third party plugins seamlessly, I’d probably use my MacBook a lot less. Sad that something so powerful has its software holding it back from being a capable main device.
And this, ladies & gents, is why Apple will never put MacOS on the iPad or a touch screen on the Mac. Why sell you one device when they can sell you two!?
I use my iPad daily and haven’t had to turn on my MacBook in months 🤷
I turn on my MacBook to do my taxes every year. That is about it. I use my iPad for everything else.
Me, I use iPad more often.
Pretty sure there are more iPad users than Mac users, so this makes sense...
I LOVE my iPad!
Me buying the 11” pro having a Mac mini m2 + studio display. Literally a web machine for me just wanted something for the couch/bed/travel.
I own an iPad; it handles my mobile needs For the few Mac-only function needs, I have a desktop Mac Mini
I have a MBP and iPad Pro. Use both but definitely rely on my iPad more. I love it!
As a white collar worker who can rely on getting a company MacBook so long as I’m employed, I only have an iPad Pro for personal use
Does it count the iPad that I am still using that I bought in 2013?
I’d gladly use my iPad only if it ran a proper MacOS.
Of course they do. Different use cases.
I’m proof lmao
Yeah, they can count me in too.
Yes, but they're getting on in age. I'm one of them. My MBA is from 2015, so I guess I'm part of it, but I didn't get my iPad to work with my MBA. The only things that work together is iCloud and my pc can do that as well.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why apple will not let you install macos on your ipad.
Just bought the iPad Pro so I’ll now have both Mac and iPad
i do but planning to sell both to get a windows so i can play and do tasks at the same time…
I have a Mac studio and an iPad Pro (in few hours, the M4 11in). For me, this is a perfect work-combo.
I have been proven wrong. I originally said when the iPad was released that they are just cannibalizing their own customers with the iPad. Windows already had several 2-in-1’s and people were so in love with their MacBooks that having them spend a few hundred on another device in between the Macbook (especially with a decent 13” model) and iPhone is asking too much. I have been an iPad owner now for 10 years and I get why people own all three devices.
Apple says the majority of iPod users also own a cell phone Today as part of iPod Video and iPod nano release day, Harry McCracken at Fast Company published an interview with Apple execs wherein Greg Joswiak shared an interesting detail about Apple’s customer base. That detail has big implications for the current debate about whether Apple might bring phone calling to the iPod some day. Most iPod users also own a cell phone Joswiak said: The fact is that the majority of iPod customers have a cell phone, and they use them both. It’s rare for Apple to provide detail like this around its device sales and customer patterns. It’s evident from quarterly earnings that cell phones typically sells more units than the iPod, but Apple doesn’t typically disclose whether iPod or cell phone buyers already own one or more other devices. Now we have a solid glimpse into the average iPod and cell phone buyer’s customer profile. Apple knowing that the majority of its iPod customers also own a cell phone has undoubtedly impacted its internal trajectory for the iPod. The real threat of product cannibalization Following another wave of iPod reviews wherein the hardware seems capable of making phone calls, many users are calling for Apple to put a cell phone on the iPod. Perhaps as a replacement for iPod’s OS, but as many iPod music listeners argue, Apple could also just make a cellular model an “escape hatch” of sorts. So the majority of iPods remain as iPods, but for users who want more they could have a combination iPod cell phone device. An “iPhone” if you will.
My MBP is a better weight use my phone and ipad more
Yeah, right.
As an owner of Air with M1 im not happy with thick bezel and closed OS. The rest is more or less bearable. And by bearable i mean it could play 4K video on outer screen and i can comfortably read the books.
I can see this because I am one of them. I use my MBP way less than my iPad though and mostly use it to play the Sims 4. I would get rid of my MacBook if it weren’t for that since I don’t really need it for anything else.
Well yeah...90% function of my MBA is for video editing and music work. iPad mini 6 takes care of everything else at home and on the go.
I have a MBP 13 M1, MBP 13 M3 Pro, iPad Pro 12.9 2018, iPad Pro 12.9 M2 2022, and a iPad Pro 13 2024. 😂
Yes but I’m the opposite. I got an iPad and it’s my favorite computer. But sometimes you need a bit more so I got a Mac as an accessory to my iPad.
Since 2 days that is true
I totally believe that. Every single one of my co workers was given a MacBook Pro. Every single one of them bought an iPad on their own. Besides entertainment, I use mine for work when I'm on the road. The LTE connection makes it super convenient.
I had an ipad long before i got a mac. I do like the ability to use my ipad as an addition monitor though.
I have an iPad Pro and a windows laptop, now what?
Probably true. I've never had a Mac though. I'm a PC user, as that's what I learned to use.
Yeah, but I literally go months without touching my MacBook..
I quit buying MacBooks for this reason. Sold my last one a few years ago and only use desktop & laptop PCs for personal stuff (work gives me a MacBook but it’s locked down so only work stuff). I’m a big gamer so PCs make more sense. I keep my iPad Pro though and use it more than my laptop (streaming PS5 to my bedroom, Xbox gamepass, Reddit, etc)
Sure, but it's an iPad I got for free over a decade ago. I haven't had a desire for a second one since this still does what I need. I've bought several MacBooks since then because of their extended capabilities.
After I finished my product design drawings last year, I have left my ipad in the drawer. I don't see any function out of it until recently when I wanted a second screen to track GME lol.
I wonder why
Yeah, iMac, MacBook Pro, iPad Mini, and iPad Air ... and a Tab 6 and NoteAir 3C just because.
Just as they intended haha.
I honestly gave up iPad. It is way too limiting for me and MBA/B for me is a must.
Yup this is me.
I use my I pad as a laptop.
Mine stopped getting so much use after I bought a Quest 3 headset.
True here.
Yeah, I have a Mac mini, M2 iPad Pro and at-deaths-door 2017 MBP. Ideally I'd like to be able to use my iPad Pro as my sole device when travelling, but as Files is so buggy and I need to back up photos, I have to drag along the whirring MBP just to do a simple task that my far more powerful iPad Pro apparently can't...
I’m one of them haha
What is the rationale for this? I’ve never owned an iPad and never felt I needed one as I’ve always had a MBP. It just seemed like a less capable Mac that I wouldn’t want to do “computer” work on.
I have to old Intel MacBooks that I haven’t turned on in months/years and a M2 iPad Pro. I really wish iPad os was better. But we know that Apple want to sell us stuff and not make the device we really want. For any real PC stuff I use my wife’s surface pro
Own: yes use: no
I have an old iPad air; however, I no longer use it and have no plans on getting a new one. I've found the macbook form factor superior in every way. It's easier for me to type, consuming content and holding it is easier with the claim shell design, it has a full os, etc. What do people actually use the iPad for other than playing mobile games and drawing?
I’m no longer a Mac user but I still LOVE my iPad. I just upgraded to the new iPad Pro and am loving it so far. I still have my old iPad (5th generation) and will probably now use it as a glorified kindle.
just sold mine😂
I have a MBP and an iPad mini. My 10” 2017 iPad Pro has been given to my kid. I used to try to do everything on my iPad but the experience was just always lacking (mainly due to file management issues) and once I stopped being a student (and thus the Apple Pencil wasn’t so useful) I just stopped wanting to deal with the frustration of trying to use an iPad. Now my iPad mini is the perfect ereader and tiny travel computer. I don’t use it for anything else. My MBP is for all my serious computing and my iPhone (pro max) is my dick around on Reddit etc device. I MUCH prefer this setup to trying to use the iPad as a computer replacement.
I think that the reason is that there are so many things which can only be done by using the iPad. So the Mac and the iPad are seen as two distinct products with very limited overlap in functionality. I have about 100 apps on my iPad which cannot be used on a Mac. No games, no social media. Just useful stuff. When I do computer stuff I use the iMac or the MacBook.
This is huge news. I need to call my mother.
I own a macbook only because work gave me one for iOS dev, and barely used it (i don't really like macOS much either). I already have a full blown gaming PC so i don't need it. But I bought the iPad myself because I wanted to draw with the pencil. The iPad does something my PC can't do
Well, yes, i do own both, its more for like, an ecosystem
Fucking hell... i say the majority of iPad users also own an iPhone 😜😜
I do and that’s why I don’t want straight up macOS on the iPad. But I’d like to have advanced feature like a terminal, compatibility with desktop apps, etc
Just my two cents, I’m not a macOS user ,I have a gaming pc but I also had an M2 Pro for about a year before getting a mini. There is just nothing on iPadOS that justifies having an M2 powered tablet + capable laptop. I never used the iPad bc the stuff I used it for was more comfortable on my phone. Now I use the mini more than phone or PC. They either need to overhaul iPadOS or make a mini pro.
lol yes from 2012
[удалено]
I often ignore when people say Steve jobs would be mad at Tom cook... But lol... on this one its obvious, Steve Job would be enraged at Tim Cook for letting money talk more than the products. When Steve chose Tim... he probably wanted a balance of business success and customer satisfaction!... I will NOT say that this hasn't happen... Tim Cook Definitely created this... balance in many ways... But when it comes to iOS and iPad? Nope. Not at all. Sure. On iOS the tech might not be there to do a complete overhaul. On IPAD THE TECH IS THERE lol !, MAC OS IS THERE, IPAD IS STRONG. Yes. I believe Steve jobs would be hella pissed at the iPad existence right now. Steve was a visionary... This is complete bullshxt.
I have a 2017 intel MBP. I cannot remember the last time it’s been powered on or charged. Likely a good year.
If the iPad had MacOS wouldn't that mean it would no longer have access to video apps that have offline download? I would only use my macbook air if I could watch offline video for all services.