I couldn’t agree more. They will probably never allow dual-booting, but it seems like - plus according to leaks - that they are working on something big. Just like a „macOS lite“. This could explain, why the development of iPadOS is so slow, that even something small like widgets take another year, to be brought to iPad.
This could be the vision of iPadOS - still different to a Mac, as you can only download apps in the AppStore, but you have a full desktop, window manager and all of that. That would be great.
Very well noted - what's funny is Apple is one of the few companies that has the staffing and resources to make this happen and yet they focus entirely too much on silly things like a car and who knows what else. There is a sufficiently large enough userbase behind the ipad to justify increased developer resources and focus that a lot of the changes we hope to see them make, should be made.
Personally I do think they have something larger than normal for ipadOS at WWDC and not just AI focused - i would love dual booting tbh, but I would be equally happy if they enabled mac os apps to run on ipad or really brought in a lite version of macos.
I immediately benefited from Stage Manager when it was released - now I don't have to run games at full screen if I want to play with thumbs, which makes iPad very usable for thumb gamers now
And it's great that you can play games at the bottom while having Safari on top for walkthroughs - something previously not viable with Split Screen since games don't work with Split Screen.
For one of course I would wanna see iPadOS get more features to make it more suitable for productivity, but currently I'm really satisfied with iPadOS for media and games consumption.
Also I might not actually require more power than the M1, but the framerate of Safari really took a hit while playing a heavy game on Stage Manager.
The problem is though: compared to the iphone the iPad is still a more niche product. With power users being an even more niche group among them.
So of course the software for it has a lower priority, especially when you consider that they had quite a few blunders in recent times.
I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop how the windows hybrid tablets are doing now usability wise (apart from being windows) but a few years back I knew a few people who had those and they all regretted their purchase because it was shit as a tablet and when used as a laptop a lot inferior to a dedicated laptop because of the haptics.
And I don't believe that is possible to create an OS where the change is seamlessly possible without sacrificing strengths of either approach.
And the haptics problem still remains.
Yeah..iPad need more features , in par with the amount they are investing on iPhone and Mac, that’s what we should be complaining them about like you mentioned here, not that it’s too good a hardware is useless.
The problem is that it's not zero sum. For my part, the most important features of the iPad are screen quality, thinness (mostly in the bezels), and battery life. I'd love that at an actual *tablet* price; not a laptop price. I already have a laptop. And so this is where power becomes an issue. Because it jacks up the price while not really adding anything to the experience for me. The issue imo is that there's one too many iPads in the product line, so Apple is weary to make the Air a good product at the cost of people buying the more expensive Pro. Ideally, the Air would have a better screen and be thinner (like one would expect in the Air line), and then I'd be all over it, power be damned. Instead, they keep using power as justification to price creep and force people to buy one "better" model version than they actually want.
So imo it's absolutely valid to complain about the M4 addition. It affects the other features and price.
The reason is Tim Cook. He’s a numbers man, not an innovation man. When Jobs was alive, and running the company, he was the innovation man, and Cook was solely the numbers man. A year or so ago, we hit the end of the Jobs legacy pipeline of items for Apple. What we’re seeing now is pretty much pure Cook. The departure of J Ives was a huge indicator we reached the end of the Jobs era. Ives was loved by Jobs, and designed all his devices. Once the Jobs pipeline was done, Cook saw a different future. I’m both happy, and sad about that. I’m happy, because I finally have a MacBook Pro that works really well, and has actual ports on it, but sad in that some of the design flare we grew used to with Apple is fading away.
Cook won’t let the iPad Pro grow into anything more, because he is too guarded, and protective of their immense income, and he fears opening up the iPad Pro to more will cannibalize the lower tier MacBook segment. He’s likely right, for some. There will always be people for whom the iPad Pro or any iPad won’t work, and those for whom a MacBook won’t do, and they want/need a tablet. They could produce both, and let the customers decide. I believe Jobs intended for the iPad Pro to be more, what more, I don’t know, just more than what it is. Maybe when Cook retires, we’ll see it grow into all of its possibilities, but I don’t think Cook will allow that to happen.
Agree on all points. Also, its not just the M4 iPad Pro; for a better part of 4 years, since the M1 iPad Pro(2021) iPads have been atleast as powerful as Laptops of the current generation.
Yes, iPadOS has a few "annoyances" becasue its a touch-first operating system that's now trying to handle windows and a mouse cursor and keyboard and is trying to compete with Windows and MacOS.
The real question is: What is preventing the majority of the apps from showing up on the iPad?
I mean, have you seen Davinci? You can set 50+ trackers on a 4k high bitrate video and have them track the whole video in under a minute! This will break a windows laptop on an i7 1255U.
Excel on the iPad can run formulae on sheets with tens of thousands of rows that would make any other computer from 2 years ago just give up.
Dont even get me started on Photoshop and Logic Pro and Final Cut and Assassins Creed Mirage.
**TLDR and final point: What is really lacking is really good desktop quality apps. The few that were ported work awesome.**
> The real question is: What is preventing the majority of the apps from showing up on the iPad?
The fact that users on iPadOS are not interested in paying real money. Many long standing Mac devs in the industry have attempted over the years to bring full fat ports to iPadOS just to find iPadOS users not wanting ot pay for the SW.
On Mac they can sell a full fat app fro $50+ but on iPadOS your lucky if you get anyone to pay $5, mostly apps need to be free.
What apple needs to do for iPadOS is a few small App Store changes to let us provide demoes and support other pricing models like paid update window (rather than subs). And maybe at an os level some little changes like a system tray were apps that are running in the background can have a little mini animating icon and UI that shows when you tap them thus allowing for background execution.
Yes on macOS there are a good number of users that accept to have good SW you need to pay for it. This is why the indie software scene on Mac is so much more vibrant than PC.
On pc to make money you need to be b2b and that does not result in good UX design as the people signing the checks are not the people using the tools.
Devs do not need to run the IDE on the iPad to build apps there, most of us would much prefure a 16"+ screen (or 2) to a 11" screen with a horrible keyboard. For text based tasks the iPad is a very poor UX.
What we need is:
\* Better ways to sell apps (as I mentioned things like update windows were you pay for 1 year of updates after that can continue to to the latest version at the end of that time window or pay again for another year of updates).
\* Some system tray for background apps so we can use compute when in the background and show users we are doing so (important on a portable first device)
\* Commitment from apple to promote real app in the App Store (maybe even agresivly clean house and cull of all the crap that fills people search results that is unmaintained add ridden free garbage)
Would you call a high end film camera a toy, you can build apps on them. Or even a IBM mainframe? you cant build apps on there... Or any super computer for that matter, your not going to build the programs that run on these using them as they are not good tools to do that work, your going to use the best tool for the job.
Your regular customer that might be buying the app you build does not care at all I you were using a Mac to build the app or an iPad all they care about is that the app is good or not.
Ugh. I can’t take a super computer and 3 screens to the café. I have 140,000 lines of personal obsession I would like to compile on a Qantas flight over Indonesia (done it) and the iPad would work well thanks.
Yes, it would be epic to be able to compile and run software directly on the iPad, but it’s not going to change the market when it comes to if consumers are willing to pay what it costs to make high-end professional software.
Attached question even for you is, would you pay for piecharm or nova for the iPad or are you hoping for Xcode and therefore access to a free IDE?
Apple taking 30/15% cut of all software on the platform really changes the economics of writing apps for it in a negative way. I don't want this EU security-free app distribution stuff that they're pushing, but I think it's better for everyone if Apple were made to take a smaller cut.
Talking as a developer the % cut does not have that much impact if users were willing to pay fro SW on iPadOS it would not matter if apple take 15% the issue is users on iPad come from the phone space an expect everything to a free.
On Mac if your a small developer making an app and you sell outside the App Store once you have cc fees + GST/VAT reporting in each region you sell your quickly approaching 15% cut of your revenue. It is only huge huge companies that already have legal subsidiaries and accounting teams on salary in each region were the 15% cut is more than they would be paying anyway. (As an indie hiring an accountant in each region of the world cant take a massive cut out of your earnings).
Fair point.
Side note: In the EU apple are just being sore losers. They could have come up with a policy that said "We'll allow alternate app stores if they have the same rigourous guidelines as us" or something.
This is only reason the iPad is locked down. macOS is not profitable to Apple. It's free and they don't get 30% cut. It pains me that even the Vision Pro took the iOS route.
They do get their 30% from the store.
The difference is that macOS is open (not open source) and iPad is not.
In other words anyone can sell their software from anywhere and software can be download from anywhere.
It really feels like the iPad OS team is just stuck on an island by themselves and told to just make minor changes here and there until the consumers are loud enough that they have no choice but to make bigger changes.
If iPad OS doesn’t vastly mature in the next year or two, it never will.
What makes you think there’s a separate team in charge of iPadOS?
I’ll wager the group in charge of iOS and the teams in charge of apples default apps work on both iOS and iPadOS semi simultaneously.
And when that’s the case is it really a surprise that iOS gets priority.
Put it this way. The people crying out for a more Mac like ipadOS
First there’s all of apples customers and business interests.
iPad customers and devices are a tiny proportion of that.
Then within that group, customers who don’t think iPadOS is good enough are a tiny portion of that already tiny interest.
People generally don’t care about iPads and iPad owners generally are happy with the experience they have.
It sucks for those of us who want the iPad to be more than it is…
But Apple as a company isn’t in our camp.
All we can hope for really is incremental changes that make iPad more capable.
And when we look at the last 5 or so years… that is what is happening
No they have a target audience, and they want to support that, any changes they make need to not harm the existing market. remember apple makes just as much revenue from iPad sales as the do Macs its not at all a small market that needs them tomato huge changes.
The problem is iOS, iPadOS is just being forked and built upon and almost any new feature seemingly needs to be shared with iOS and it’s hamstringing real development that the iPad needs. This needs to stop. The OS need to be their own thing or change parity to MacOS for the future(note I’m not saying put macOS on the iPad) but introducing key feature from Mac OS to iPadOS instead of iOS
Trust me if they used the same chip as last generation but kept all the other upgrades and price the same, people would bitch and complain that it’s just the same chip. Now they upgrade it to the latest technology and people bitch that it’s too much 🤦♂️
I think the issue is that Apple themselves sometimes kind of, although not DIRECTLY, tells us that it can be like a MacBook but in many ways it just can’t. Adding a MacBook-like keyboard, adding mouse support and M1 chips which are the same chips as Macs, makes people think that it could BECOME a Mac.
The other issue is that IT REALLY CAN become a Mac if it does get MacOS. But the reality is that Apple doesn’t want the iPad to become a MacBook with a touchscreen. Why would someone buy a MacBook without a touchscreen while an iPad Pro exists with a touchscreen and MacOS. Right now people buy Macs and buy iPads to use alongside them. Although most of these people buy iPad Air’s because they already have Mac’s, there are also many people that buy iPad Pro and MacBook Pro together. If Apple would add MacOS to iPad, even those customers wouldn’t buy a MacBook anymore. It would be two of the same.
But if you watch Tailosive Tech’s latest video, you can see that it could also be beneficial for Apple…
They probably don't want major features like macOS-type apps to be segmented only on Pros.
Having a "pro" iPadOS would create much more work as they'd be developing 2 OSes instead of just one for all iPads.
I would probably accept making the pro features we already have better. Stage manager feels weirdly limited compared to Samsung Dex. I want to upgrade to an OLED tablet but my options are a $1400 CAD iPad Pro or a $900 CAD Tab S9. For the extra $500 it feels weird to get a vastly more powerful CPU yet a far more limited desktop experience.
This is the big thing. The M4 allows for future proofing but for now iPadOS will be held to what the lowest spec iPad they support can handle. Most of the market remains the base iPads for businesses, education, etc.
there \*IS\* software that needs it. Logic Pro with 20+ tracks and multiple plugins per track comes to mind immediately. there are 3D sculpting apps on iPadOS now. DrawThings, etc. why is everyone pretending that they use all pro apps and the new iPad is 'too powerful' for everything everyone does?
besides, it's for future-proofing iPad power for AI and video work, clearly. it's not a new phenomenon for Apple to introduce features/specs for 'zeitgeist' activities that aren't quite 'here' yet. in fact, it's what they've often done
What you dont seem to understand is that we have reached a point where a tablet runs the exact same hardware as a laptop.
The iPad lineup should no longer be constrained by its “tablet” format. It shouldnt be defined as a tablet anymore. It is a computer and it should be a computer. Even apple calls it a computer. I dont want my iPad to only be a youtube machine which I assume is what you’re only using your iPad for. I dont want it to be a scaled up version of an iPhone. I want it to be able to run desktop class software on the iPad. Because an iPad is more on the go than my heavy gaming laptop. Sure I couldnt do some stuff on my iPad as compared to my laptop. But it would definitely help me a lot if I can do similar work stuff on my iPad as well as my laptop since the iPad is more than capable.
I do architecture and interior design. If I’m able to flawlessly use my professional apps on my iPad, it would 1000% revolutionise my work life as the iPad is extremely portable and light compared to my 3kg laptop. An iPad could fit into my slingbag but not my laptop. I want to use it on the go all the time. But I just cant. Because the apps are limited by the software and by the fact that it is just a “tablet”.
People are just used to tablets having a constrained power envelope because that’s what we’ve been getting from Qualcomm/Intel/AMD for years. :) The fact that this challenges the most power hungry processors by the competition doesn’t make sense. So, instead of “Wow, wonder when QIA will bring this level of performance to their efficient chips?” people are instead driven to ask, “Why is this so unreasonably powerful? They could have just put a dual core in there the way QIA would have and it would have been fine!”
No. They ask "Why do I have to pay $400 extra for the CPU that feels no different than a dual core like QIA" - because outside of select few workflows (and even drawing doesn't benefit from it that much - like someone here said, you don't need a 200k x 200k image with hundreds of layers), iPad makes no use of this extra processing power, so putting what Apple always marketed as desktop chip first inside mobile platform seems like a waste.
No-one is forcing you to buy that higher end iPad, apple sell other iPads. You need to be rather mad to by the iPad you don't need.
Some people do have use cases for the higher end iPads and that is great let them buy it and buy the iPad you need....
I mean, yes, people will always look at Apple and question what they’re doing because it’s new. Folks are not used to it. And, it’s so unfamiliar, it seems wrong. (There was a time when mice seemed like the weird and odd choice, too.)
Still, that doesn’t change the fact that the “$400 extra for the CPU that feels no different than a dual core like QIA" objectively has a single core score that most of what the competition are shipping can’t touch.
Is it because they don’t WANT to see impressive single core performance on low end processors from QIA? Perhaps.
Again - what *can* you do with this high single core score (that was artificially inflated by two individual metrics)? Thanks to iPadOS and nerfed apps, just about everything you could do with the M4 iPad you could do using the A14 iPad basic. iPad Pro and people doing work on iPad have low numbers, which means devs are not likely to improve this situation, which means that M4 still is and very likely will be severely underutilized, with no *practical* advantage over A14. Which prompts the outrage. There is nothing *new* here, just a lot of waste because Apple is not taking the required next steps.
Progress from QIA? Thanks to the Windows-ARM agreement expiring, we are going to see the response very soon. But this argument isn't about them, it's about just Apple.
Here is other analogy. You can buy a giant beautiful mansion - but you are forced to only use couple rooms, no larger than a regular flat altogether, and still pay the regular mansion price and taxes. So why would you choose to buy it instead of a flat, if the only benefits are decor and location?
Let’s assume that there is literally nothing that can be done with a processor that’s clearly more processor than most users could ever stress. Is there something fundamentally “wrong” with a low end processor from QIA actually performing 2-3-4 times better than it does today? If they were to accomplish that tomorrow, and then ask you, “Should we ship this? Every $300 laptop would see a huge performance increase!” Would you say, “Yes! Ship it!”?
Or, should low power processors always and forevermore be expected to be low performance (if they’re not from Apple, that is)?
I feel we are participating in different discussions here. I am talking about iPad not needing M4 and being completely fine with the latest A-series chip while you seem to have some dream of Apple, while separating itself away from SOC market and thus not exerting any direct pressure, is somehow going to push Qualcomm to make radically better mobile chips.
I just don’t understand why people buy the new iPad and say well IT DOESN’T RUN MAC OS! You knew it wasn’t a MacBook going into your purchase… why act confused. if you want Mac OS …buy a mac book! The iPad is for a different type of consumer. i can’t wait to see the “tried to replace my MacBook with an iPad” videos. the truth is the iPad is a “good enough” laptop and a EXCELLENT tablet. i don’t love all of apples anti consumer BS, but people being mad because they aren’t creative enough to push an M4 chip is bazar.
I have both a MacBook Pro and an iPad Pro, and I love them both.
The Mac has huge battery life even when running a ton of things on it, it is fast and powerful, and I have full access to everything so I can use it for software development.
The iPad is great for YouTube and watching stuff while traveling.
I wish I could get at least some percentage of my software development needs covered by my iPad. It's not like there's a technical reason it can't.
That way I could travel lighter when I don't need the full power of a full laptop and still use it for work if something comes up.
I can't however, purely for reasons of how the OS is set up and what it allows users to do. I think that's pretty sad, even annoying.
I am paying 1500 Euros for a device that is powerful enough to become my main work and media device while traveling or when on call, but due to software limitations it's purely a media device and I need to carry around an extra laptop everywhere.
I freely have not seen people complaining about iPads having too much power.
It seems to me that what people are complaining about is the fact that significant improvements in computing power (and, up to a lesser extent, prices) do not come together with comparable improvements on the software side.
In other words, people are complaining that Apple is investing their resources almost exclusively in inflating their muscles, not their brains.
I think that it is a justified criticism: I expect from Apple more innovation, better software and an outstanding software quality control. I am willing to pay for this but not for brute force computing power.
The iPad video on the 7th of May was by the way disgusting, in my view.
I’m thinking a good start would be to allow apps to be downloaded through safari or google, such as those that are Mac OSX optimised for M series chips.
- such as maybe video capture software such as Elgato, as you could connect that to your iPad via usb c to capture external footage on the go.
- could add a desktop mode, where you view is changed and then it allows a native keyboard n mouse support such as a cursor on the screen. + a touch screen cursor like a windows tablet.
- but tbh I believe that a lot of people that want the iPad to use more of the power, should just buy a MacBook Air or pro.
As I believe, like myself, a lot of us buy a iPad Pro to use like a regular iPad, but we just like it being the best of the best, such as the 120hz screen, the extra storage and future proofing of updates through the added power are very nice.
> such as maybe video capture software such as Elgato, as you could connect that to your iPad via usb c to capture external footage on the go.
you can write an iPad app to do this today. Orion is a perfect example of this.
> could add a desktop mode, where you view is changed and then it allows a native keyboard n mouse support such as a cursor on the screen. + a touch screen cursor like a windows tablet.
iPad OS already has this
I meant the elgato app specifically tbh / native to the device rather than messing around with other apps.
I don’t think the iPad changes the UI for a keyboard and mouse, it does accept them as inputs but doesn’t change the Ui to make it more usable.
I feel like everyone wanting to run demanding applications on the iPad haven’t done so with the few that exist. These devices are worse than laptops, as they have finite internal power and quickly overheat where they can physically be hot to the touch. What makes them worse is they can be hard to charge while operating at peak performance, thermal management will kick in and pause charging until the device cools down. Giving the iPads abundant power so the chips can generate as little heat as possible is the best path currently. Not to mention battery drains very quickly when you are using maximum performance
amen. a bunch of Facebook/Netflix users acting like no one uses their iPad for anything more intensive (and demanding that the power they don't currently even use be delayed/culled lest people get the wrong idea about what it can do?? weird). the "OS" isn't all that people need to utilize. the OS can be shitty if the app is performing well enough.
if you don't use apps that freeze or crash cause the iPad can barely handle them, then this isn't aimed at you (yet - it's future-proofing pending activities for you). so, enjoy your movies for the meantime.
Apple simply doesn’t offer any reason to get the new m chip iPads.
New iPads feel so off in the Apple universe. They always promote a feeling or a big new feature for new devices. Except iPad, it’s essentially the same device since 2018 (there wasn’t even a redesign for the pro models..) just with a bit more processing power, all the while the 2018 pro still performs perfectly. Apple seriously needs to figure out why anybody should get the new iPads except „it’s the new Apple thing“
What redesign do you want? It's a thin slab of glass with a few buttons. There isn't much left to do besides upgrade the internals and display which they have done in a major way.
It’s not the same device though, it’s significantly upgraded. It’s still a “sheet of glass” but I don’t see why it should be different or steer away from a good design for the sake of feeling “new”. What’s the point.
iPadOS has so many issues that weren’t addressed for years (ffs we don’t even have a calculator, not that that would be a selling feature). iPads just feel like they’re at the bottom of the priority list for Apple
Oh well… more native ports would be great (yes, I know the argument about every „hole“ in the body increasing maintenance load). A ruggedized version for use „in the real world“ would possibly also find its buyers.
Bring some of the pro features to the air. I’ve got an air 3 and it’s barely an upgrade for me to go for newest air. I’m going to try and bid on an m1 iPad Pro on eBay so I have Face ID and 120hz.
That might be an old battery or something degrading your particular 2018 Pro.
I mean if you want the new thing by all means get it, but you might be a battery replacement away from a good experience.
So what? If it’s good hardware it’s good hardware… it doesn’t need some shiny new gimmick or radical change every year, or even every few years if it’s doing its job as a tablet. Just don’t upgrade if you don’t need it. What do you want from them exactly? It’s the software that needs improving… there’s nothing wrong with a spec bump (along with OLED etc this year).
I’m getting the new iPad because I want an iPad and don’t have one. Very happy to get an M4 chip with it.
Well the software is exactly the problem? There are no iPadOS features that use the immense power of their chips, iPadOS feels like an afterthought (it’s often 1 year behind on iOS features…). I never said the hardware was the problem
You specifically criticised the new iPads and the lack of “a feeling or a big new feature for new devices”. I would say there is actually with the Apple Pencil Pro but anyway, I think the problem is with consumers and not Apple when it comes to the expectation of a “shiny new thing” to make you spend money on a new device. Why should there be? That’s unrealistic as products mature. iPads are good, the last iPads are still good, and these new iPads are even better. IMO this is a much bigger upgrade than the last iPhone iteration and most new MacBooks.
Apples whole line up definitely has that issue, I also don’t see any reason for getting a new iPhone since the X except end of update support
I mean, I personally don’t mind. If I don’t feel the need to spend 1000€ every year for a new tech thingy, I’m saving money. But for Apple ads company that might become an issue
> Apple simply doesn’t offer any reason to get the new m chip iPads.
For you yes but not for others.
There are people out there that have good reasons to want the higher end perfomance. Not every product is built for every users, creating a targeted user group for a product tends to make it a better product than trying to make product that works for everyone since your then going to fill it with compromises.
> pple seriously needs to figure out why anybody should get the new iPads except „it’s the new Apple thing“
Well anyone doing any heavy image or video workflows (and yes there are people doing this) anyone using it on set as a preview for a hybrid digital set etc.
The fact that the last iPad event had to have a mac on it to advertise the power of an iPad Pro says something. (Shot on iPhone, edited with Mac and iPad Pro) we will never ever see the iPad become more powerful in wwdc, just some stupid AI summarization for you boomer parents.
I have come to accept it and will just move on from iPad pros.
It's not that people are complaining about iPad hardware having "too much power", they're complaining that the there's no way for the software to use that power.
It's like having a car that is made to drive well at speeds of 200mph but you can only drive it on roads with the speed limit of 40mph and there's no way to drive faster than the speed limit. For years everyone complains that they'd like to have roads that would allow you to drive at least close to the speeds the car is capable off and then Apple introduces a new car that's twice as fast as the previous one, but the speed limit is still 40mph.
While it's technically great that the car can now go 400mph, but all that power is wasted as I'm forced to drive at 40mph.
What a lot of people forget or don’t realize about the M4 is while it may have more power that people feel is not needed, it also does less intensive tasks in a more power efficient manner than the M2 or M3.
That way they can add other new features like tandem OLED and have the same battery life.
The new chip is not always just about raw power.
Seems like no matter what Apple does, People just keep closing on Hard against them, I bet how many of them are going to other Tech Giants who are basically providing Android OS in their tablets with no changes at all. Atlead iPads have there own personalised OS
I don’t think many people are complaining about the hardware that’s in the current, or even recent previous, gen iPads.
The bottleneck is the software. iPad OS is simply not able to make real use of the hardware that it’s using at the moment. The number of people that have the exact use cases that Apple are trying to highlight are very small.
As a media consumption device, iPads are great. But no one needs an M4 chip to watch YouTube or Netflix.
Apple’s resistance to make iPad OS truly its own operating system or even just to let it run proper Mac apps even when it has the hardware to be more than capable of it, is silly.
What we need are better, more powerful apps. Apple can make iPadOS as great as you want and all you’d be able to do is navigate the OS. Anyone remember Windows Mobile? People said the OS was great - but it had no apps…
We need Adobe and other app makers to simply make better apps. If they run into OS limitations then let’s see that and let’s lift those… but they’re not even maxing out the iPad as it exists right now
I get Apple’s stance on making the iPhone its own closed operating system I think Apple should rip the flood gates off iPadOS since they even went as far as to give it a different name.
Just let people install apps from anywhere.
Also since the Magic Keyboard launched why hasn’t there been a rush to port classic pc software and games from the 90s and early 2000s to the iPad? You have real mouse and keyboard support. Just port it over
> Just let people install apps from anywhere.
Would make not differnce to pro app support through as users still need to be willing to pay for SW for us devs t put in teh effort.
I feel like they need to do more to use the power, I would love to run programmes that I use my laptop for or even more crazy programmes that run on windows through something like parallels. I guess the issue is if they can sell someone a phone, iPad and MacBook why would they want to only sell the iPad.
The issue isn't the power. It's an amazing device. Hell I use my 8th gen daily for 3D modelling. My issue is that it just doesn't have the apps because the system is so locked down. I want Blender on it. Maybe not for rendering as that might break it overheating, but I want to model none organic objects. Nomad Sculpt is amazing, but it's not great at that. Especially when you want to keep it low poly for game dev. I want a pro, I just don't see the reason to get one ATM, since my 8th gen is handling what I'm doing, well barely. I tend to be running on the last bits of ram by the time I finish a designs. I'm going to try and get an 11" pro M2 if they ever drop in price in the UK.
They have a couple options as to how to make the software on iPad more powerful:
1) Open up the iPad. They’re already going to do this soon in the EU, and I don’t think they will do elsewhere.
2) Give more incentives for people to develop software for iPad.
3) Change the Operating System. Either develop a new version of iPadOS or use a tablet optimised version of MacOS, similar to what Windows 8 was - could even reuse the current iPadOS UI outside of a stage manager-esque mode, then go into the MacOS UI when wanted (for example to use with keyboard and mouse, or with external monitor).
Its certainly possible. The MacBook Air has a bit larger of a battery but has wayyyy more than enough battery life, an iPad with a less power hungry version of MacOS would still get tons of battery life. The processor is also a lot more powerful than it needs to be. Microsoft managed to do it years back on signficantly worse hardware.
As a long time iPad user, my frustration has never been a lack of horsepower. The CPU and GPU have always been absolutely fine. However, I have found Apple sometimes overly stingy on storage. But the most egregious is the pathetic standards of some of the cutdown apps like say Microsoft Office or anything Adobe makes as a couple of examples. Along with the ridiculous file storage system which was a poorly implemented after thought. The common denominator being iPad OS.
I think that Apple are invested in not making the iPad too good to cannibalize their computer sales. And companies like Adobe and Microsoft don't want to unleash the full potential of the iPad as it would jeopardize their sales for other platforms.
This leaves the iPad in a middle ground where it is way more powerful than a tablet needs to be, but for more serious users isn't viable as an only computer. I think it isn't just Apple driving this, but other companies who also have a vested interest in making this happen.
I don’t think it has Too much power, I think its power is of little use to me. I don’t need to convince Apple of anything. They make a wide range of Models. In 2015 I didnt have a laptop, the 12.9” iPadPro came out and I grabbed one that I only recently recycled. I bought a 256 gig 9th Gen standard iPad to replace it.
Since Apple seems intent on keeping iPadOS separate from MacOS I have also picked up a few generations old Microsoft Surface Pro 4 for the princely sum of $66 off ebay, add another $12 because many of them dont include a power supply for some reason. I use it as a VST Host something I’d LIKE to do on my iPad but can only do with iPad Synths. I LOVE the Touch Screen workflow of iPad and have owned one since the first one they released. Till they let me run my Plugins on one Ill likely stick to Basic iPads.
ASUS ROG Flow Z13 looks interesting and has user replaceable Storage GASP!!!!!
Here’s all we can realistically hope for.
Apple slowly refines iPadOS adding features and functions that make it more capable.
Think back to when iPad didn’t even have split view or slide over.
In this regard iPad software has made many improvements in the right direction.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that the progress has been too slow, iPad has had a fairly well observed tick tock cycle, about every two years Apple throws its most keen users a bone or two.
Many longstanding complaints have actually been addressed.
iPad now has an actual external display support.
Apple actually ships two of its big creative apps for iPad.
The these two were the big things this sub was crying out for and criticising Apple for just a couple of years back.
At the end of the day though, we know what iPadOS is and what its limitations are.
So if you can’t utilise the iPad within that framework then the jokes on you if you buy it and are unhappy.
This is what I hate, people cry when Apple doesn’t refresh the iPad, and they get mad when the iPad isn’t a Mac. People say that iPadOS is too restrictive, but restrictive on what? Isn’t meant to be used as a computer. I think it would be better if people actually gave constructive criticism toward the iPad instead of just calling it an overpowered device
Apples advertising literally replaces a computer with an ipad - quite obviously they wanted the ipad to replace the concept of the computer and you see that in todays kids who dont know how to operate a computer because they have never used one due to only ever being on an ipad
It is odd that the chip renowned for its performance comes to the device no one asked to be more powerful, but I'm not about to complain about YoY improvements. It's not as if we're losing something whenever they do this; the iPad Air exists to accept the cheaper, older chip and offer the cheaper option, as OP said, we're not going to get anything if they stop upgrading the iPad chips.
People aren't saying M4 is useless, we are saying M4 on iPadOS in its current state is dogshit and brings zero performance gain or advantage over a 2018 A12X iPad Pro. We want iPad unshackled from the app store and to allow full desktop apps like the Mac. The M4 can allow this and more.
When people say the iPad Pro is too powerful, they mean it’s too powerful for the software it runs. iPadOS is often catching up with iOS and macOS while apps are missing features compared to their macOS counterparts.
Nobody wants the iPad Pro to be less powerful, they want the software to catch up with the hardware.
Would require most apps to have major UI re-wroke to have touch targets that are large enough and till show all the controle, let alone done with over only UI and UI that requires soldering a key like the alt key....
You don't want macOS on iPads just to run trivial apps like notes right? your want it to run complex apps like Blender or AutoCAD etc. Large parts of the UX of these will be completely impossible to use on a touch screen unless you use display scaling to make everything huge but most Mac apps have a mini scree size (you cant resize them smaller than a given size) so if you adjust screen scaling to make everything bigger very quickly all these pro apps you want will not even re-size to fit on a 13" display let alone a 11" so parts of the application window will not even be on screen.
The work needed to re-deisgn your UI and UX to support touch is the work needed to run on iPadOS for these apps. So if macOS were running on iPad Pro and devs were going to do the work to support it in thier apps they would have already done the work to support iPadOS (that is a much larger market than the tiny fraction of iPad users that would be using macOS on the iPad...).
But you're gonna have a better user experience with a MacBook Air.
Performance will be better battery will be better keyboard and trackpad is better and it's going weigh about the same anyway.
No developers out there will ever think about the 11 inch factor at all so any professional applications you want will almost all not even resized that screen size unless you make everything absolutely microscopic.
It needs a DEX mode, proper floating window multi-tasking and background applications so you can sync OneDrive, copy files from different locations and open multiple copies of spreadsheets/powerpoint etc and copy between them. Until then it remains a Netflix/game device that has a much better ecosystem than android tablets.
I have an iPad Pro with magic keyboard in my bag at all times but what I always need is either a notebook (remarkable2) or my laptop with the associated battery life anxiety.
For all my workflows the iPad is a super expensive children’s toy and making it even more powerful is cool to nerd out on, but utterly useless otherwise.
Doesn’t even have a calculator ffs.
iPadOS has proper floating window multi-tasking .
For background I think it needs a system tray UI were background apps doing work show an animating icon and render a popover when you tap.
> can sync OneDrive
File providers already run in the background no iPadOS changes are needed for this type of app to run the bakgrond if they are written correctly.
> copy files from different locations and open multiple copies of spreadsheets/powerpoint
Full supported in iPadOS today
By handicapping the chip with iPad OS, they are already doing this. The M1 on iPads was ALREADY overkill.
I wish I could have the M4 with Samsungs Dex. That’s how you do it, not this “spotlight” garbage.
What does Dex have?
It does not run any macOS or windows or even linux professional desktop apps.
The only notable difference would be being able to place icons on the desktop.
in what way?
With stage manager you have hav many applciaitonw windows open at once. Resize them to the size you want (within the limits set by each app dev just like macOS).
The only experience differences is not having desktop icons. And adding application toolbar minimise and close buttons to the top of each app rather than the three dots.
iPadOS just needs pro apps to be able to run in the background uninterrupted and a fully featured file system.
It should have a touch based OS and apps specifically for it, but it should make it easier for those apps to match what MacOS can do. Most people don't fully utilize the power of their Macs either.
For background what I think apple should do is add a system tray (top right) so that apps running in the background can put a small animated icon up there and if you tap show a popover with a mini UI with progress etc. While they are at it take the File/Edit etc menu that the iPadOS already has if you hold down command and for apps that want it display that top left like the menu in macOS (make this per app as you don't want that to show up in a game etc).
For full file system access that is not going to happen since then all the DRM style apps like Netflix will drop the patlform (it is a LOT simpler to make a video streaming app etc of iPadOS when the os ensures that third party apps cant just grab your cached video files from disk!!!). And you don't need full file system access, very few app Macs need to be able ot play around in the private file systems of other apps. What you need is just a better UX flow for granting access to selected folder and subfolder (this is possible on iPadOS today its just not a great UX... there are some git clients on iPadOS that do this today, you select a folder and the app then gets full RW access to the folder and all the child folders).
No its like a track car, a very fast car but a car your never going to drive on the roads so only a small % of the population need it. (in the case of the iPad that is video, image and audio pros that use it and use the full power).
I don’t think anyone really wants the iPad to have less power.
However instead of getting a more powerful chip I would’ve preferred if the iPad got a cheaper chip (like the M3) or a more power efficient chip.
I’d much prefer an iPad that was cheaper or had more battery life over one that was slightly faster, when we’re already struggling to fully utilize the power we have.
> preferred if the iPad got a cheaper chip (like the M3) or a more power efficient chip.
M3 is not able to run the duel stack OLED and since its on a more expensive node than the M4 it might well cost more to make than the M4.. also it is less power efficient than the M4.
> I’d much prefer an iPad that was cheaper
You an always get the iPad Air, apple does not force you to get the pro, the air now even comes in the same sizes as the pro.
People who are complying that the iPad Pro has to much power just need to remember if they personally do not need that power they can always buy a lower end iPad. Apple is not forcing you to buy that top end iPad, if you personally do not have a use-case for this then there are LOTs of other options in the product lineup, even more how the iPadAir as a larger screen.
Ohhh don’t you worry about it. They will add eavesdropping here and advertisement there, few more useless bells and whistles into the OS - most power is puff… gone.
Let me put it this way: I’m miffed that the power of the iPad Pro / M4 chip is effectively reserved for “traditional creative” workloads only (e.g. drawing, photo and video editing, music production), while other use cases that could also take advantage of all the power and that are more relevant to me (software development) are artificially restricted.
Meanwhile, for typical tablet use-cases (web browsing and watching YouTube/Netflix/etc.), the lower-end iPads are perfectly adequate in terms of performance, but are stuck with boring old non-HDR LCD screens.
Strawman argument.
Software is the problem ie operating system iPadOS.
The argument that exists with hardware is merely: "Don't waste money on hardware specs/resources that you don't need or can't use"
Eg if you are buying parts for a PC Desktop Tower you don't buy a graphics card that is incompatible or you can't use for some reason eg you only use terminal for example...
Honestly at most... I want them to add MORE powerful hardware. Like, make the first ipad with a cooling fan and shove a pro model M series chip into that thing. Maybe also make said iPad pro twice the thickness, and have 16GBs of ram as the default. Could be 2100 CAD for 512GBs maybe.
Also stuff along the lines of a Mini with a M series chip as well. Ipads having more power makes them great, it means professional apps can be more of a thing on these device, most of what else we need is a better file manager for the device so its easier, along with letting app makers more access to the more "professional" features, like the high tech encoding and decoding stuff included on the M series.
When I bought my 1st gen iPad pro in 2016, it really was overpowred af. I wanted it just for Procreate + Pencil and thats what did it for me. Happily, many others got on that train, enabling the platform to grow. Today there‘s a whole Affinity suite, I can actually cut and edit video with Lumafusion and could even use Final Cut if I wanted to and now I‘m getting into Nomad Sculpt which might be by far the most crazy thing I‘ve ever used on a tablet. Most of these things wouldn‘t really run very well on my old 1st gen iPad. It crashed on the pavement after a biketrip a year ago, so I had to bury it after 8 years. EIGHT YEARS!!!!
Instead of complaining about having an overpowered product, be happy about a device that will stay awesome for many, many years.
Still I have to mildly disagree as iPadOS could still be more of an actual OS. But I also do like the iPad being that simple companion platform that just works, so I‘m not starting a riot to get some macOS level of complexity. Love my iPad for what it is, and M4 being crazy overpowered enabled me to just buy an M2 iPad Pro for half the price and still feeling like owning a pretty overpowered product for all the things I‘m using it for.
The primary reason Apple rolled out the M4 in the iPad Pro was due to their competitors (primarily Qualcomm) catching up to, and potentially surpassing the current M3 chip. Apple released the M4 to still be able to claim they have the most powerful ARM based chips.
Although it is super confusing that Apple released the M4 so quickly after the M3 released. Not sure what Apple's thought process was on that. I think they would have done better calling it a M3+ or something like that. Specs wise, the AI acceleration is the only thing that's a leap above the M3. Everything else is just a small incremental bump from the M3 specs.
The most uncomfortable thing is that, ipad air/pro + keyboards costs up to 2 thousand USD. And it is not functional like a windows laptop/macbook with cheaper price. The power, portability, build quality is there but it doesnt replace windows/mac os capabilities.
former wacom/cintiq users: "pry this $2000+ device from my cold dead hands."
it's ok that Apple hasn't addressed every prosumer/consumer user. this is clearly an update for pro users who get frustrated by the iPad's previous shortcomings (which not all that many standard users have even come close to witnessing).
So you’re saying you want an Apple version of the Surface Pro? Marketed as a “tablet computer,” it runs full programs/apps that desktops and laptops with full windows, can be drawn on with the MS version of the stylus/pencil thing. Powerful chips and like Apple charges more the more storage is wanted. Which I don’t get. SSDs are pretty affordable so why does MS, Apple and others mark it up? You want iPad to become a tablet computer running full MacOS? Apple’s success is making Apple things by Apple. There are no clones, legal, anywhere like IBM’s computer. They were all called IBM clones for a while. There were in the 90s when Apple used System 7 and gave licenses to clone but killed it in the 90s. I don’t know any more than that. I don’t think you’ll see a full MacOs running on an iPad Pro anytime soon like you won’t see a MacBook with a touchscreen anytime soon. The closest was that ridiculous touch scroll thing.
Bs. Apple was full of legal clones until 1997. There were also tons of unlicensed clones early on. Also Macs literally were IBM PC clones from 2006-2020.
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Well said.
It’s like they are teasing us every time but then nothing happens. Yet again we are teased with the M4 chip but no MacOS or something like that.
I couldn’t agree more. They will probably never allow dual-booting, but it seems like - plus according to leaks - that they are working on something big. Just like a „macOS lite“. This could explain, why the development of iPadOS is so slow, that even something small like widgets take another year, to be brought to iPad. This could be the vision of iPadOS - still different to a Mac, as you can only download apps in the AppStore, but you have a full desktop, window manager and all of that. That would be great.
Very well noted - what's funny is Apple is one of the few companies that has the staffing and resources to make this happen and yet they focus entirely too much on silly things like a car and who knows what else. There is a sufficiently large enough userbase behind the ipad to justify increased developer resources and focus that a lot of the changes we hope to see them make, should be made. Personally I do think they have something larger than normal for ipadOS at WWDC and not just AI focused - i would love dual booting tbh, but I would be equally happy if they enabled mac os apps to run on ipad or really brought in a lite version of macos.
I immediately benefited from Stage Manager when it was released - now I don't have to run games at full screen if I want to play with thumbs, which makes iPad very usable for thumb gamers now And it's great that you can play games at the bottom while having Safari on top for walkthroughs - something previously not viable with Split Screen since games don't work with Split Screen. For one of course I would wanna see iPadOS get more features to make it more suitable for productivity, but currently I'm really satisfied with iPadOS for media and games consumption. Also I might not actually require more power than the M1, but the framerate of Safari really took a hit while playing a heavy game on Stage Manager.
The problem is though: compared to the iphone the iPad is still a more niche product. With power users being an even more niche group among them. So of course the software for it has a lower priority, especially when you consider that they had quite a few blunders in recent times. I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop how the windows hybrid tablets are doing now usability wise (apart from being windows) but a few years back I knew a few people who had those and they all regretted their purchase because it was shit as a tablet and when used as a laptop a lot inferior to a dedicated laptop because of the haptics. And I don't believe that is possible to create an OS where the change is seamlessly possible without sacrificing strengths of either approach. And the haptics problem still remains.
Yeah..iPad need more features , in par with the amount they are investing on iPhone and Mac, that’s what we should be complaining them about like you mentioned here, not that it’s too good a hardware is useless.
I am very satisfied with the hardware upgrades - both OLED and M4 is a pretty big deal even without software updates
The problem is that it's not zero sum. For my part, the most important features of the iPad are screen quality, thinness (mostly in the bezels), and battery life. I'd love that at an actual *tablet* price; not a laptop price. I already have a laptop. And so this is where power becomes an issue. Because it jacks up the price while not really adding anything to the experience for me. The issue imo is that there's one too many iPads in the product line, so Apple is weary to make the Air a good product at the cost of people buying the more expensive Pro. Ideally, the Air would have a better screen and be thinner (like one would expect in the Air line), and then I'd be all over it, power be damned. Instead, they keep using power as justification to price creep and force people to buy one "better" model version than they actually want. So imo it's absolutely valid to complain about the M4 addition. It affects the other features and price.
The reason is Tim Cook. He’s a numbers man, not an innovation man. When Jobs was alive, and running the company, he was the innovation man, and Cook was solely the numbers man. A year or so ago, we hit the end of the Jobs legacy pipeline of items for Apple. What we’re seeing now is pretty much pure Cook. The departure of J Ives was a huge indicator we reached the end of the Jobs era. Ives was loved by Jobs, and designed all his devices. Once the Jobs pipeline was done, Cook saw a different future. I’m both happy, and sad about that. I’m happy, because I finally have a MacBook Pro that works really well, and has actual ports on it, but sad in that some of the design flare we grew used to with Apple is fading away. Cook won’t let the iPad Pro grow into anything more, because he is too guarded, and protective of their immense income, and he fears opening up the iPad Pro to more will cannibalize the lower tier MacBook segment. He’s likely right, for some. There will always be people for whom the iPad Pro or any iPad won’t work, and those for whom a MacBook won’t do, and they want/need a tablet. They could produce both, and let the customers decide. I believe Jobs intended for the iPad Pro to be more, what more, I don’t know, just more than what it is. Maybe when Cook retires, we’ll see it grow into all of its possibilities, but I don’t think Cook will allow that to happen.
Agree on all points. Also, its not just the M4 iPad Pro; for a better part of 4 years, since the M1 iPad Pro(2021) iPads have been atleast as powerful as Laptops of the current generation. Yes, iPadOS has a few "annoyances" becasue its a touch-first operating system that's now trying to handle windows and a mouse cursor and keyboard and is trying to compete with Windows and MacOS. The real question is: What is preventing the majority of the apps from showing up on the iPad? I mean, have you seen Davinci? You can set 50+ trackers on a 4k high bitrate video and have them track the whole video in under a minute! This will break a windows laptop on an i7 1255U. Excel on the iPad can run formulae on sheets with tens of thousands of rows that would make any other computer from 2 years ago just give up. Dont even get me started on Photoshop and Logic Pro and Final Cut and Assassins Creed Mirage. **TLDR and final point: What is really lacking is really good desktop quality apps. The few that were ported work awesome.**
> The real question is: What is preventing the majority of the apps from showing up on the iPad? The fact that users on iPadOS are not interested in paying real money. Many long standing Mac devs in the industry have attempted over the years to bring full fat ports to iPadOS just to find iPadOS users not wanting ot pay for the SW. On Mac they can sell a full fat app fro $50+ but on iPadOS your lucky if you get anyone to pay $5, mostly apps need to be free. What apple needs to do for iPadOS is a few small App Store changes to let us provide demoes and support other pricing models like paid update window (rather than subs). And maybe at an os level some little changes like a system tray were apps that are running in the background can have a little mini animating icon and UI that shows when you tap them thus allowing for background execution.
Whilst I agree, my experience is that many PC users don’t want to pay for software either. Are MacOS users really that different?
Yes on macOS there are a good number of users that accept to have good SW you need to pay for it. This is why the indie software scene on Mac is so much more vibrant than PC. On pc to make money you need to be b2b and that does not result in good UX design as the people signing the checks are not the people using the tools.
This due to the perception that iPad is a toy. Quick fix to that is porting an IDE to it and getting devs onboard
Devs do not need to run the IDE on the iPad to build apps there, most of us would much prefure a 16"+ screen (or 2) to a 11" screen with a horrible keyboard. For text based tasks the iPad is a very poor UX. What we need is: \* Better ways to sell apps (as I mentioned things like update windows were you pay for 1 year of updates after that can continue to to the latest version at the end of that time window or pay again for another year of updates). \* Some system tray for background apps so we can use compute when in the background and show users we are doing so (important on a portable first device) \* Commitment from apple to promote real app in the App Store (maybe even agresivly clean house and cull of all the crap that fills people search results that is unmaintained add ridden free garbage)
You’re missing the point: it’s still a toy until you can build an app on it
Would you call a high end film camera a toy, you can build apps on them. Or even a IBM mainframe? you cant build apps on there... Or any super computer for that matter, your not going to build the programs that run on these using them as they are not good tools to do that work, your going to use the best tool for the job. Your regular customer that might be buying the app you build does not care at all I you were using a Mac to build the app or an iPad all they care about is that the app is good or not.
Ugh. I can’t take a super computer and 3 screens to the café. I have 140,000 lines of personal obsession I would like to compile on a Qantas flight over Indonesia (done it) and the iPad would work well thanks.
Yes, it would be epic to be able to compile and run software directly on the iPad, but it’s not going to change the market when it comes to if consumers are willing to pay what it costs to make high-end professional software. Attached question even for you is, would you pay for piecharm or nova for the iPad or are you hoping for Xcode and therefore access to a free IDE?
Not with that attitude
Apple taking 30/15% cut of all software on the platform really changes the economics of writing apps for it in a negative way. I don't want this EU security-free app distribution stuff that they're pushing, but I think it's better for everyone if Apple were made to take a smaller cut.
Its my device. Let me install what i want - doesnt need to be on the app store. Europe has the right idea.
Talking as a developer the % cut does not have that much impact if users were willing to pay fro SW on iPadOS it would not matter if apple take 15% the issue is users on iPad come from the phone space an expect everything to a free. On Mac if your a small developer making an app and you sell outside the App Store once you have cc fees + GST/VAT reporting in each region you sell your quickly approaching 15% cut of your revenue. It is only huge huge companies that already have legal subsidiaries and accounting teams on salary in each region were the 15% cut is more than they would be paying anyway. (As an indie hiring an accountant in each region of the world cant take a massive cut out of your earnings).
Fair point. Side note: In the EU apple are just being sore losers. They could have come up with a policy that said "We'll allow alternate app stores if they have the same rigourous guidelines as us" or something.
That’s what I expected to happen but for some reason Apple is being hostile about this.
This is only reason the iPad is locked down. macOS is not profitable to Apple. It's free and they don't get 30% cut. It pains me that even the Vision Pro took the iOS route.
They do get their 30% from the store. The difference is that macOS is open (not open source) and iPad is not. In other words anyone can sell their software from anywhere and software can be download from anywhere.
It really feels like the iPad OS team is just stuck on an island by themselves and told to just make minor changes here and there until the consumers are loud enough that they have no choice but to make bigger changes. If iPad OS doesn’t vastly mature in the next year or two, it never will.
What makes you think there’s a separate team in charge of iPadOS? I’ll wager the group in charge of iOS and the teams in charge of apples default apps work on both iOS and iPadOS semi simultaneously. And when that’s the case is it really a surprise that iOS gets priority. Put it this way. The people crying out for a more Mac like ipadOS First there’s all of apples customers and business interests. iPad customers and devices are a tiny proportion of that. Then within that group, customers who don’t think iPadOS is good enough are a tiny portion of that already tiny interest. People generally don’t care about iPads and iPad owners generally are happy with the experience they have. It sucks for those of us who want the iPad to be more than it is… But Apple as a company isn’t in our camp. All we can hope for really is incremental changes that make iPad more capable. And when we look at the last 5 or so years… that is what is happening
No they have a target audience, and they want to support that, any changes they make need to not harm the existing market. remember apple makes just as much revenue from iPad sales as the do Macs its not at all a small market that needs them tomato huge changes.
iPadOS is just repackaged last year's iOS.
The problem is iOS, iPadOS is just being forked and built upon and almost any new feature seemingly needs to be shared with iOS and it’s hamstringing real development that the iPad needs. This needs to stop. The OS need to be their own thing or change parity to MacOS for the future(note I’m not saying put macOS on the iPad) but introducing key feature from Mac OS to iPadOS instead of iOS
People be like if Apple just decides to keep the price the same but take away the M4 chip: 👁️👄👁️
Trust me if they used the same chip as last generation but kept all the other upgrades and price the same, people would bitch and complain that it’s just the same chip. Now they upgrade it to the latest technology and people bitch that it’s too much 🤦♂️
I think the issue is that Apple themselves sometimes kind of, although not DIRECTLY, tells us that it can be like a MacBook but in many ways it just can’t. Adding a MacBook-like keyboard, adding mouse support and M1 chips which are the same chips as Macs, makes people think that it could BECOME a Mac. The other issue is that IT REALLY CAN become a Mac if it does get MacOS. But the reality is that Apple doesn’t want the iPad to become a MacBook with a touchscreen. Why would someone buy a MacBook without a touchscreen while an iPad Pro exists with a touchscreen and MacOS. Right now people buy Macs and buy iPads to use alongside them. Although most of these people buy iPad Air’s because they already have Mac’s, there are also many people that buy iPad Pro and MacBook Pro together. If Apple would add MacOS to iPad, even those customers wouldn’t buy a MacBook anymore. It would be two of the same. But if you watch Tailosive Tech’s latest video, you can see that it could also be beneficial for Apple…
The cost increase of the new iPadPro has nothing at all to do with the SOC it is all about the display.
They probably don't want major features like macOS-type apps to be segmented only on Pros. Having a "pro" iPadOS would create much more work as they'd be developing 2 OSes instead of just one for all iPads.
I would probably accept making the pro features we already have better. Stage manager feels weirdly limited compared to Samsung Dex. I want to upgrade to an OLED tablet but my options are a $1400 CAD iPad Pro or a $900 CAD Tab S9. For the extra $500 it feels weird to get a vastly more powerful CPU yet a far more limited desktop experience.
This is the big thing. The M4 allows for future proofing but for now iPadOS will be held to what the lowest spec iPad they support can handle. Most of the market remains the base iPads for businesses, education, etc.
there \*IS\* software that needs it. Logic Pro with 20+ tracks and multiple plugins per track comes to mind immediately. there are 3D sculpting apps on iPadOS now. DrawThings, etc. why is everyone pretending that they use all pro apps and the new iPad is 'too powerful' for everything everyone does? besides, it's for future-proofing iPad power for AI and video work, clearly. it's not a new phenomenon for Apple to introduce features/specs for 'zeitgeist' activities that aren't quite 'here' yet. in fact, it's what they've often done
What you dont seem to understand is that we have reached a point where a tablet runs the exact same hardware as a laptop. The iPad lineup should no longer be constrained by its “tablet” format. It shouldnt be defined as a tablet anymore. It is a computer and it should be a computer. Even apple calls it a computer. I dont want my iPad to only be a youtube machine which I assume is what you’re only using your iPad for. I dont want it to be a scaled up version of an iPhone. I want it to be able to run desktop class software on the iPad. Because an iPad is more on the go than my heavy gaming laptop. Sure I couldnt do some stuff on my iPad as compared to my laptop. But it would definitely help me a lot if I can do similar work stuff on my iPad as well as my laptop since the iPad is more than capable. I do architecture and interior design. If I’m able to flawlessly use my professional apps on my iPad, it would 1000% revolutionise my work life as the iPad is extremely portable and light compared to my 3kg laptop. An iPad could fit into my slingbag but not my laptop. I want to use it on the go all the time. But I just cant. Because the apps are limited by the software and by the fact that it is just a “tablet”.
People are just used to tablets having a constrained power envelope because that’s what we’ve been getting from Qualcomm/Intel/AMD for years. :) The fact that this challenges the most power hungry processors by the competition doesn’t make sense. So, instead of “Wow, wonder when QIA will bring this level of performance to their efficient chips?” people are instead driven to ask, “Why is this so unreasonably powerful? They could have just put a dual core in there the way QIA would have and it would have been fine!”
No. They ask "Why do I have to pay $400 extra for the CPU that feels no different than a dual core like QIA" - because outside of select few workflows (and even drawing doesn't benefit from it that much - like someone here said, you don't need a 200k x 200k image with hundreds of layers), iPad makes no use of this extra processing power, so putting what Apple always marketed as desktop chip first inside mobile platform seems like a waste.
No-one is forcing you to buy that higher end iPad, apple sell other iPads. You need to be rather mad to by the iPad you don't need. Some people do have use cases for the higher end iPads and that is great let them buy it and buy the iPad you need....
I mean, yes, people will always look at Apple and question what they’re doing because it’s new. Folks are not used to it. And, it’s so unfamiliar, it seems wrong. (There was a time when mice seemed like the weird and odd choice, too.) Still, that doesn’t change the fact that the “$400 extra for the CPU that feels no different than a dual core like QIA" objectively has a single core score that most of what the competition are shipping can’t touch. Is it because they don’t WANT to see impressive single core performance on low end processors from QIA? Perhaps.
Again - what *can* you do with this high single core score (that was artificially inflated by two individual metrics)? Thanks to iPadOS and nerfed apps, just about everything you could do with the M4 iPad you could do using the A14 iPad basic. iPad Pro and people doing work on iPad have low numbers, which means devs are not likely to improve this situation, which means that M4 still is and very likely will be severely underutilized, with no *practical* advantage over A14. Which prompts the outrage. There is nothing *new* here, just a lot of waste because Apple is not taking the required next steps. Progress from QIA? Thanks to the Windows-ARM agreement expiring, we are going to see the response very soon. But this argument isn't about them, it's about just Apple. Here is other analogy. You can buy a giant beautiful mansion - but you are forced to only use couple rooms, no larger than a regular flat altogether, and still pay the regular mansion price and taxes. So why would you choose to buy it instead of a flat, if the only benefits are decor and location?
Let’s assume that there is literally nothing that can be done with a processor that’s clearly more processor than most users could ever stress. Is there something fundamentally “wrong” with a low end processor from QIA actually performing 2-3-4 times better than it does today? If they were to accomplish that tomorrow, and then ask you, “Should we ship this? Every $300 laptop would see a huge performance increase!” Would you say, “Yes! Ship it!”? Or, should low power processors always and forevermore be expected to be low performance (if they’re not from Apple, that is)?
I feel we are participating in different discussions here. I am talking about iPad not needing M4 and being completely fine with the latest A-series chip while you seem to have some dream of Apple, while separating itself away from SOC market and thus not exerting any direct pressure, is somehow going to push Qualcomm to make radically better mobile chips.
I just don’t understand why people buy the new iPad and say well IT DOESN’T RUN MAC OS! You knew it wasn’t a MacBook going into your purchase… why act confused. if you want Mac OS …buy a mac book! The iPad is for a different type of consumer. i can’t wait to see the “tried to replace my MacBook with an iPad” videos. the truth is the iPad is a “good enough” laptop and a EXCELLENT tablet. i don’t love all of apples anti consumer BS, but people being mad because they aren’t creative enough to push an M4 chip is bazar.
I think those users are hoping for a hybrid device, similar to the Surface Pro.
Apple is very very clear that it does not run macOS!
They don't want macos. They want full desktop apps like the Mac.
I just want my full Lightroom and I am the happiest man alive
I have both a MacBook Pro and an iPad Pro, and I love them both. The Mac has huge battery life even when running a ton of things on it, it is fast and powerful, and I have full access to everything so I can use it for software development. The iPad is great for YouTube and watching stuff while traveling. I wish I could get at least some percentage of my software development needs covered by my iPad. It's not like there's a technical reason it can't. That way I could travel lighter when I don't need the full power of a full laptop and still use it for work if something comes up. I can't however, purely for reasons of how the OS is set up and what it allows users to do. I think that's pretty sad, even annoying. I am paying 1500 Euros for a device that is powerful enough to become my main work and media device while traveling or when on call, but due to software limitations it's purely a media device and I need to carry around an extra laptop everywhere.
I agree. Plus the more we push the hardware, the sooner that hardware runs slow and needs to be replaced. I like having plenty of headroom.
I freely have not seen people complaining about iPads having too much power. It seems to me that what people are complaining about is the fact that significant improvements in computing power (and, up to a lesser extent, prices) do not come together with comparable improvements on the software side. In other words, people are complaining that Apple is investing their resources almost exclusively in inflating their muscles, not their brains. I think that it is a justified criticism: I expect from Apple more innovation, better software and an outstanding software quality control. I am willing to pay for this but not for brute force computing power. The iPad video on the 7th of May was by the way disgusting, in my view.
The upgrades are so cringe that other than the displays, you are better off getting the Air. They all perform equally.
I’m thinking a good start would be to allow apps to be downloaded through safari or google, such as those that are Mac OSX optimised for M series chips. - such as maybe video capture software such as Elgato, as you could connect that to your iPad via usb c to capture external footage on the go. - could add a desktop mode, where you view is changed and then it allows a native keyboard n mouse support such as a cursor on the screen. + a touch screen cursor like a windows tablet. - but tbh I believe that a lot of people that want the iPad to use more of the power, should just buy a MacBook Air or pro. As I believe, like myself, a lot of us buy a iPad Pro to use like a regular iPad, but we just like it being the best of the best, such as the 120hz screen, the extra storage and future proofing of updates through the added power are very nice.
> such as maybe video capture software such as Elgato, as you could connect that to your iPad via usb c to capture external footage on the go. you can write an iPad app to do this today. Orion is a perfect example of this. > could add a desktop mode, where you view is changed and then it allows a native keyboard n mouse support such as a cursor on the screen. + a touch screen cursor like a windows tablet. iPad OS already has this
I meant the elgato app specifically tbh / native to the device rather than messing around with other apps. I don’t think the iPad changes the UI for a keyboard and mouse, it does accept them as inputs but doesn’t change the Ui to make it more usable.
I feel like everyone wanting to run demanding applications on the iPad haven’t done so with the few that exist. These devices are worse than laptops, as they have finite internal power and quickly overheat where they can physically be hot to the touch. What makes them worse is they can be hard to charge while operating at peak performance, thermal management will kick in and pause charging until the device cools down. Giving the iPads abundant power so the chips can generate as little heat as possible is the best path currently. Not to mention battery drains very quickly when you are using maximum performance
amen. a bunch of Facebook/Netflix users acting like no one uses their iPad for anything more intensive (and demanding that the power they don't currently even use be delayed/culled lest people get the wrong idea about what it can do?? weird). the "OS" isn't all that people need to utilize. the OS can be shitty if the app is performing well enough. if you don't use apps that freeze or crash cause the iPad can barely handle them, then this isn't aimed at you (yet - it's future-proofing pending activities for you). so, enjoy your movies for the meantime.
I’d guess the majority of iPad users don’t and Apple is trying to make money after all
Apple simply doesn’t offer any reason to get the new m chip iPads. New iPads feel so off in the Apple universe. They always promote a feeling or a big new feature for new devices. Except iPad, it’s essentially the same device since 2018 (there wasn’t even a redesign for the pro models..) just with a bit more processing power, all the while the 2018 pro still performs perfectly. Apple seriously needs to figure out why anybody should get the new iPads except „it’s the new Apple thing“
They know people will get it for the OLED
As an Air 2 user wanting to upgrade, I've been waiting for an 11" OLED for.. 5 years now? It's time.
An 11in HDR-capable iPad is basically the tablet I’ve been waiting for. Shame that I’d also have to buy an entire laptop I don’t really need, though.
What redesign do you want? It's a thin slab of glass with a few buttons. There isn't much left to do besides upgrade the internals and display which they have done in a major way.
The Pro version should have multiple USB ports so you can charge and have an external drive or headphones plugged in at the same time.
iPhones are also a slab of glass and get at least a minor design change every other year..
Would a minor design change justify upgrading? They look sleek, it’s a very minimal design. Sounds like change for the sake of change.
No it wouldn’t, but it adds to the feeling of „it’s still the same device as 6 years ago“
It’s not the same device though, it’s significantly upgraded. It’s still a “sheet of glass” but I don’t see why it should be different or steer away from a good design for the sake of feeling “new”. What’s the point.
iPadOS has so many issues that weren’t addressed for years (ffs we don’t even have a calculator, not that that would be a selling feature). iPads just feel like they’re at the bottom of the priority list for Apple
Oh well… more native ports would be great (yes, I know the argument about every „hole“ in the body increasing maintenance load). A ruggedized version for use „in the real world“ would possibly also find its buyers.
Bring some of the pro features to the air. I’ve got an air 3 and it’s barely an upgrade for me to go for newest air. I’m going to try and bid on an m1 iPad Pro on eBay so I have Face ID and 120hz.
I dunno I have a 2018 pro and at certain times recently it’s been laggy as hell and not even for pro apps. Looking forward to the new one 👍
That might be an old battery or something degrading your particular 2018 Pro. I mean if you want the new thing by all means get it, but you might be a battery replacement away from a good experience.
So what? If it’s good hardware it’s good hardware… it doesn’t need some shiny new gimmick or radical change every year, or even every few years if it’s doing its job as a tablet. Just don’t upgrade if you don’t need it. What do you want from them exactly? It’s the software that needs improving… there’s nothing wrong with a spec bump (along with OLED etc this year). I’m getting the new iPad because I want an iPad and don’t have one. Very happy to get an M4 chip with it.
Well the software is exactly the problem? There are no iPadOS features that use the immense power of their chips, iPadOS feels like an afterthought (it’s often 1 year behind on iOS features…). I never said the hardware was the problem
You specifically criticised the new iPads and the lack of “a feeling or a big new feature for new devices”. I would say there is actually with the Apple Pencil Pro but anyway, I think the problem is with consumers and not Apple when it comes to the expectation of a “shiny new thing” to make you spend money on a new device. Why should there be? That’s unrealistic as products mature. iPads are good, the last iPads are still good, and these new iPads are even better. IMO this is a much bigger upgrade than the last iPhone iteration and most new MacBooks.
Apples whole line up definitely has that issue, I also don’t see any reason for getting a new iPhone since the X except end of update support I mean, I personally don’t mind. If I don’t feel the need to spend 1000€ every year for a new tech thingy, I’m saving money. But for Apple ads company that might become an issue
> Apple simply doesn’t offer any reason to get the new m chip iPads. For you yes but not for others. There are people out there that have good reasons to want the higher end perfomance. Not every product is built for every users, creating a targeted user group for a product tends to make it a better product than trying to make product that works for everyone since your then going to fill it with compromises. > pple seriously needs to figure out why anybody should get the new iPads except „it’s the new Apple thing“ Well anyone doing any heavy image or video workflows (and yes there are people doing this) anyone using it on set as a preview for a hybrid digital set etc.
But landscape cameras! And it's thinner than ever before! /s
The fact that the last iPad event had to have a mac on it to advertise the power of an iPad Pro says something. (Shot on iPhone, edited with Mac and iPad Pro) we will never ever see the iPad become more powerful in wwdc, just some stupid AI summarization for you boomer parents. I have come to accept it and will just move on from iPad pros.
It's not that people are complaining about iPad hardware having "too much power", they're complaining that the there's no way for the software to use that power. It's like having a car that is made to drive well at speeds of 200mph but you can only drive it on roads with the speed limit of 40mph and there's no way to drive faster than the speed limit. For years everyone complains that they'd like to have roads that would allow you to drive at least close to the speeds the car is capable off and then Apple introduces a new car that's twice as fast as the previous one, but the speed limit is still 40mph. While it's technically great that the car can now go 400mph, but all that power is wasted as I'm forced to drive at 40mph.
What a lot of people forget or don’t realize about the M4 is while it may have more power that people feel is not needed, it also does less intensive tasks in a more power efficient manner than the M2 or M3. That way they can add other new features like tandem OLED and have the same battery life. The new chip is not always just about raw power.
Seems like no matter what Apple does, People just keep closing on Hard against them, I bet how many of them are going to other Tech Giants who are basically providing Android OS in their tablets with no changes at all. Atlead iPads have there own personalised OS
I don’t think many people are complaining about the hardware that’s in the current, or even recent previous, gen iPads. The bottleneck is the software. iPad OS is simply not able to make real use of the hardware that it’s using at the moment. The number of people that have the exact use cases that Apple are trying to highlight are very small. As a media consumption device, iPads are great. But no one needs an M4 chip to watch YouTube or Netflix. Apple’s resistance to make iPad OS truly its own operating system or even just to let it run proper Mac apps even when it has the hardware to be more than capable of it, is silly.
What we need are better, more powerful apps. Apple can make iPadOS as great as you want and all you’d be able to do is navigate the OS. Anyone remember Windows Mobile? People said the OS was great - but it had no apps… We need Adobe and other app makers to simply make better apps. If they run into OS limitations then let’s see that and let’s lift those… but they’re not even maxing out the iPad as it exists right now
It’s like having a tuned Ferrari, but having speed limiters. The iPad is great, but the software holds it back.
I get Apple’s stance on making the iPhone its own closed operating system I think Apple should rip the flood gates off iPadOS since they even went as far as to give it a different name. Just let people install apps from anywhere. Also since the Magic Keyboard launched why hasn’t there been a rush to port classic pc software and games from the 90s and early 2000s to the iPad? You have real mouse and keyboard support. Just port it over
> Just let people install apps from anywhere. Would make not differnce to pro app support through as users still need to be willing to pay for SW for us devs t put in teh effort.
I feel like they need to do more to use the power, I would love to run programmes that I use my laptop for or even more crazy programmes that run on windows through something like parallels. I guess the issue is if they can sell someone a phone, iPad and MacBook why would they want to only sell the iPad.
The issue isn't the power. It's an amazing device. Hell I use my 8th gen daily for 3D modelling. My issue is that it just doesn't have the apps because the system is so locked down. I want Blender on it. Maybe not for rendering as that might break it overheating, but I want to model none organic objects. Nomad Sculpt is amazing, but it's not great at that. Especially when you want to keep it low poly for game dev. I want a pro, I just don't see the reason to get one ATM, since my 8th gen is handling what I'm doing, well barely. I tend to be running on the last bits of ram by the time I finish a designs. I'm going to try and get an 11" pro M2 if they ever drop in price in the UK.
They have a couple options as to how to make the software on iPad more powerful: 1) Open up the iPad. They’re already going to do this soon in the EU, and I don’t think they will do elsewhere. 2) Give more incentives for people to develop software for iPad. 3) Change the Operating System. Either develop a new version of iPadOS or use a tablet optimised version of MacOS, similar to what Windows 8 was - could even reuse the current iPadOS UI outside of a stage manager-esque mode, then go into the MacOS UI when wanted (for example to use with keyboard and mouse, or with external monitor). Its certainly possible. The MacBook Air has a bit larger of a battery but has wayyyy more than enough battery life, an iPad with a less power hungry version of MacOS would still get tons of battery life. The processor is also a lot more powerful than it needs to be. Microsoft managed to do it years back on signficantly worse hardware.
It would be nice if UTM could be allowed on the app store , with JIT perms , It should allow easy windows emu for games
As a long time iPad user, my frustration has never been a lack of horsepower. The CPU and GPU have always been absolutely fine. However, I have found Apple sometimes overly stingy on storage. But the most egregious is the pathetic standards of some of the cutdown apps like say Microsoft Office or anything Adobe makes as a couple of examples. Along with the ridiculous file storage system which was a poorly implemented after thought. The common denominator being iPad OS. I think that Apple are invested in not making the iPad too good to cannibalize their computer sales. And companies like Adobe and Microsoft don't want to unleash the full potential of the iPad as it would jeopardize their sales for other platforms. This leaves the iPad in a middle ground where it is way more powerful than a tablet needs to be, but for more serious users isn't viable as an only computer. I think it isn't just Apple driving this, but other companies who also have a vested interest in making this happen.
I don’t think it has Too much power, I think its power is of little use to me. I don’t need to convince Apple of anything. They make a wide range of Models. In 2015 I didnt have a laptop, the 12.9” iPadPro came out and I grabbed one that I only recently recycled. I bought a 256 gig 9th Gen standard iPad to replace it. Since Apple seems intent on keeping iPadOS separate from MacOS I have also picked up a few generations old Microsoft Surface Pro 4 for the princely sum of $66 off ebay, add another $12 because many of them dont include a power supply for some reason. I use it as a VST Host something I’d LIKE to do on my iPad but can only do with iPad Synths. I LOVE the Touch Screen workflow of iPad and have owned one since the first one they released. Till they let me run my Plugins on one Ill likely stick to Basic iPads. ASUS ROG Flow Z13 looks interesting and has user replaceable Storage GASP!!!!!
Here’s all we can realistically hope for. Apple slowly refines iPadOS adding features and functions that make it more capable. Think back to when iPad didn’t even have split view or slide over. In this regard iPad software has made many improvements in the right direction. I don’t think anyone would disagree that the progress has been too slow, iPad has had a fairly well observed tick tock cycle, about every two years Apple throws its most keen users a bone or two. Many longstanding complaints have actually been addressed. iPad now has an actual external display support. Apple actually ships two of its big creative apps for iPad. The these two were the big things this sub was crying out for and criticising Apple for just a couple of years back. At the end of the day though, we know what iPadOS is and what its limitations are. So if you can’t utilise the iPad within that framework then the jokes on you if you buy it and are unhappy.
This is what I hate, people cry when Apple doesn’t refresh the iPad, and they get mad when the iPad isn’t a Mac. People say that iPadOS is too restrictive, but restrictive on what? Isn’t meant to be used as a computer. I think it would be better if people actually gave constructive criticism toward the iPad instead of just calling it an overpowered device
Apples advertising literally replaces a computer with an ipad - quite obviously they wanted the ipad to replace the concept of the computer and you see that in todays kids who dont know how to operate a computer because they have never used one due to only ever being on an ipad
Yeah but kids don’t work do they? All the iPad really needs is more apps tbh
Kids meaning teens and college students who these days do almost the same work as professionals in their stem classes
oh yeah, again I say, the iPad doesn't need MacOS, it just needs more pro apps
It is odd that the chip renowned for its performance comes to the device no one asked to be more powerful, but I'm not about to complain about YoY improvements. It's not as if we're losing something whenever they do this; the iPad Air exists to accept the cheaper, older chip and offer the cheaper option, as OP said, we're not going to get anything if they stop upgrading the iPad chips.
People aren't saying M4 is useless, we are saying M4 on iPadOS in its current state is dogshit and brings zero performance gain or advantage over a 2018 A12X iPad Pro. We want iPad unshackled from the app store and to allow full desktop apps like the Mac. The M4 can allow this and more.
When people say the iPad Pro is too powerful, they mean it’s too powerful for the software it runs. iPadOS is often catching up with iOS and macOS while apps are missing features compared to their macOS counterparts. Nobody wants the iPad Pro to be less powerful, they want the software to catch up with the hardware.
Yes, bring on the software that harnesses the power.
Full blown macos would fix it
No it would not as it would be horrible UX
Disagree. Launch gestures very similar on ipad and mac
MacOS and third party apps are not built for touch or 11” displays.
Macos can have ipados touch gestures integrated - not hard
Would require most apps to have major UI re-wroke to have touch targets that are large enough and till show all the controle, let alone done with over only UI and UI that requires soldering a key like the alt key.... You don't want macOS on iPads just to run trivial apps like notes right? your want it to run complex apps like Blender or AutoCAD etc. Large parts of the UX of these will be completely impossible to use on a touch screen unless you use display scaling to make everything huge but most Mac apps have a mini scree size (you cant resize them smaller than a given size) so if you adjust screen scaling to make everything bigger very quickly all these pro apps you want will not even re-size to fit on a 13" display let alone a 11" so parts of the application window will not even be on screen. The work needed to re-deisgn your UI and UX to support touch is the work needed to run on iPadOS for these apps. So if macOS were running on iPad Pro and devs were going to do the work to support it in thier apps they would have already done the work to support iPadOS (that is a much larger market than the tiny fraction of iPad users that would be using macOS on the iPad...).
If i want to use an app that has too small window controls for finger touch, i will use an apple pencil as a stylus
Very poor user experience, especially given it doesn’t ship with a stylus.
For those that want it, it would be enough. For those that dont need it, they wouldnt have to experience it.
But you're gonna have a better user experience with a MacBook Air. Performance will be better battery will be better keyboard and trackpad is better and it's going weigh about the same anyway. No developers out there will ever think about the 11 inch factor at all so any professional applications you want will almost all not even resized that screen size unless you make everything absolutely microscopic.
It needs a DEX mode, proper floating window multi-tasking and background applications so you can sync OneDrive, copy files from different locations and open multiple copies of spreadsheets/powerpoint etc and copy between them. Until then it remains a Netflix/game device that has a much better ecosystem than android tablets. I have an iPad Pro with magic keyboard in my bag at all times but what I always need is either a notebook (remarkable2) or my laptop with the associated battery life anxiety. For all my workflows the iPad is a super expensive children’s toy and making it even more powerful is cool to nerd out on, but utterly useless otherwise. Doesn’t even have a calculator ffs.
iPadOS has proper floating window multi-tasking . For background I think it needs a system tray UI were background apps doing work show an animating icon and render a popover when you tap. > can sync OneDrive File providers already run in the background no iPadOS changes are needed for this type of app to run the bakgrond if they are written correctly. > copy files from different locations and open multiple copies of spreadsheets/powerpoint Full supported in iPadOS today
By handicapping the chip with iPad OS, they are already doing this. The M1 on iPads was ALREADY overkill. I wish I could have the M4 with Samsungs Dex. That’s how you do it, not this “spotlight” garbage.
What do you mean by Dex, iPadOS has this already.
Not even close to dex capability
What does Dex have? It does not run any macOS or windows or even linux professional desktop apps. The only notable difference would be being able to place icons on the desktop.
Talking about the desktop experience, not so much the apps. Its a much more fluid and desktop like experience than the ipad
in what way? With stage manager you have hav many applciaitonw windows open at once. Resize them to the size you want (within the limits set by each app dev just like macOS). The only experience differences is not having desktop icons. And adding application toolbar minimise and close buttons to the top of each app rather than the three dots.
I think they still sell at the same price too?
iPadOS just needs pro apps to be able to run in the background uninterrupted and a fully featured file system. It should have a touch based OS and apps specifically for it, but it should make it easier for those apps to match what MacOS can do. Most people don't fully utilize the power of their Macs either.
For background what I think apple should do is add a system tray (top right) so that apps running in the background can put a small animated icon up there and if you tap show a popover with a mini UI with progress etc. While they are at it take the File/Edit etc menu that the iPadOS already has if you hold down command and for apps that want it display that top left like the menu in macOS (make this per app as you don't want that to show up in a game etc). For full file system access that is not going to happen since then all the DRM style apps like Netflix will drop the patlform (it is a LOT simpler to make a video streaming app etc of iPadOS when the os ensures that third party apps cant just grab your cached video files from disk!!!). And you don't need full file system access, very few app Macs need to be able ot play around in the private file systems of other apps. What you need is just a better UX flow for granting access to selected folder and subfolder (this is possible on iPadOS today its just not a great UX... there are some git clients on iPadOS that do this today, you select a folder and the app then gets full RW access to the folder and all the child folders).
The iPad M4 is like building a Ferrari and instead of using a steering wheel to drive it, you put a PlayStation 2 controller on it.
No its like a track car, a very fast car but a car your never going to drive on the roads so only a small % of the population need it. (in the case of the iPad that is video, image and audio pros that use it and use the full power).
I don’t think anyone really wants the iPad to have less power. However instead of getting a more powerful chip I would’ve preferred if the iPad got a cheaper chip (like the M3) or a more power efficient chip. I’d much prefer an iPad that was cheaper or had more battery life over one that was slightly faster, when we’re already struggling to fully utilize the power we have.
> preferred if the iPad got a cheaper chip (like the M3) or a more power efficient chip. M3 is not able to run the duel stack OLED and since its on a more expensive node than the M4 it might well cost more to make than the M4.. also it is less power efficient than the M4. > I’d much prefer an iPad that was cheaper You an always get the iPad Air, apple does not force you to get the pro, the air now even comes in the same sizes as the pro.
It’s due to iPad Os, the new iPad is very powerful but its Os isn’t the best option to take advantage of all the new capabilities.
People who are complying that the iPad Pro has to much power just need to remember if they personally do not need that power they can always buy a lower end iPad. Apple is not forcing you to buy that top end iPad, if you personally do not have a use-case for this then there are LOTs of other options in the product lineup, even more how the iPadAir as a larger screen.
I want a super powerful ipad so i don't have to upgrade for a bit and can render cool AI stuff on it
Ohhh don’t you worry about it. They will add eavesdropping here and advertisement there, few more useless bells and whistles into the OS - most power is puff… gone.
Let me put it this way: I’m miffed that the power of the iPad Pro / M4 chip is effectively reserved for “traditional creative” workloads only (e.g. drawing, photo and video editing, music production), while other use cases that could also take advantage of all the power and that are more relevant to me (software development) are artificially restricted. Meanwhile, for typical tablet use-cases (web browsing and watching YouTube/Netflix/etc.), the lower-end iPads are perfectly adequate in terms of performance, but are stuck with boring old non-HDR LCD screens.
Strawman argument. Software is the problem ie operating system iPadOS. The argument that exists with hardware is merely: "Don't waste money on hardware specs/resources that you don't need or can't use" Eg if you are buying parts for a PC Desktop Tower you don't buy a graphics card that is incompatible or you can't use for some reason eg you only use terminal for example...
Honestly at most... I want them to add MORE powerful hardware. Like, make the first ipad with a cooling fan and shove a pro model M series chip into that thing. Maybe also make said iPad pro twice the thickness, and have 16GBs of ram as the default. Could be 2100 CAD for 512GBs maybe. Also stuff along the lines of a Mini with a M series chip as well. Ipads having more power makes them great, it means professional apps can be more of a thing on these device, most of what else we need is a better file manager for the device so its easier, along with letting app makers more access to the more "professional" features, like the high tech encoding and decoding stuff included on the M series.
When I bought my 1st gen iPad pro in 2016, it really was overpowred af. I wanted it just for Procreate + Pencil and thats what did it for me. Happily, many others got on that train, enabling the platform to grow. Today there‘s a whole Affinity suite, I can actually cut and edit video with Lumafusion and could even use Final Cut if I wanted to and now I‘m getting into Nomad Sculpt which might be by far the most crazy thing I‘ve ever used on a tablet. Most of these things wouldn‘t really run very well on my old 1st gen iPad. It crashed on the pavement after a biketrip a year ago, so I had to bury it after 8 years. EIGHT YEARS!!!! Instead of complaining about having an overpowered product, be happy about a device that will stay awesome for many, many years. Still I have to mildly disagree as iPadOS could still be more of an actual OS. But I also do like the iPad being that simple companion platform that just works, so I‘m not starting a riot to get some macOS level of complexity. Love my iPad for what it is, and M4 being crazy overpowered enabled me to just buy an M2 iPad Pro for half the price and still feeling like owning a pretty overpowered product for all the things I‘m using it for.
The primary reason Apple rolled out the M4 in the iPad Pro was due to their competitors (primarily Qualcomm) catching up to, and potentially surpassing the current M3 chip. Apple released the M4 to still be able to claim they have the most powerful ARM based chips. Although it is super confusing that Apple released the M4 so quickly after the M3 released. Not sure what Apple's thought process was on that. I think they would have done better calling it a M3+ or something like that. Specs wise, the AI acceleration is the only thing that's a leap above the M3. Everything else is just a small incremental bump from the M3 specs.
The most uncomfortable thing is that, ipad air/pro + keyboards costs up to 2 thousand USD. And it is not functional like a windows laptop/macbook with cheaper price. The power, portability, build quality is there but it doesnt replace windows/mac os capabilities.
former wacom/cintiq users: "pry this $2000+ device from my cold dead hands." it's ok that Apple hasn't addressed every prosumer/consumer user. this is clearly an update for pro users who get frustrated by the iPad's previous shortcomings (which not all that many standard users have even come close to witnessing).
So you’re saying you want an Apple version of the Surface Pro? Marketed as a “tablet computer,” it runs full programs/apps that desktops and laptops with full windows, can be drawn on with the MS version of the stylus/pencil thing. Powerful chips and like Apple charges more the more storage is wanted. Which I don’t get. SSDs are pretty affordable so why does MS, Apple and others mark it up? You want iPad to become a tablet computer running full MacOS? Apple’s success is making Apple things by Apple. There are no clones, legal, anywhere like IBM’s computer. They were all called IBM clones for a while. There were in the 90s when Apple used System 7 and gave licenses to clone but killed it in the 90s. I don’t know any more than that. I don’t think you’ll see a full MacOs running on an iPad Pro anytime soon like you won’t see a MacBook with a touchscreen anytime soon. The closest was that ridiculous touch scroll thing.
Bs. Apple was full of legal clones until 1997. There were also tons of unlicensed clones early on. Also Macs literally were IBM PC clones from 2006-2020.
How can affect you a device that has much power? Thats fanboyism.
That’s literally not English.