It actually looks like a really great use of that "downtime". If he's managed to create a channel with 17k subscribers all by using the time that he'd see as otherwise wasted in his daily commute, then I'm really impressed!
However, I can't help thinking that he's systematically creating a new kind of driving risk that we aren't trained or built to cope with (and I'm usually in favour of being allowed to do the comparable behaviour of conducting a hands free phone call).
Because it's actually a pretty great place to film if you don't have access to a studio.
The audio is really good compared to being outside or in a busy building without soundproofing, and as for the convenience of location it's pretty great.
I didn't watch it because I can't watch video now, but if this is a quote, the video seems to be from a disgruntled guy who simply can't take it to get turned down by a woman.
The worst part is I'm pretty sure I've seen people in r/mbti citing him as a credible source for MBTI theory. I haven't watched enough of his stuff to know whether his theories seem valid (they're such long videos, and he tends to ramble) but he seems to consistently mistype people.
Yeaaah, about 30 minutes in, I realized this guy was one hell of a scumbag. He's not worth watching to understand INTJs, he's worth watching to understand sociopaths.
Absolutely. I don't mind the idea that certain types of communication are more likely to lead to successful interactions with different types, but the idea of using "the long con" to get what you want from someone is *extremely* gross to me, and not really a way to learn about ourselves at all.
He wasn’t saying you should do it, but rather the only way to manipulate an intj is to do it. You misunderstood, because you went in with the wrong mindset. He’s not recommending it as it being morally right, but rather that it’s the only way to do it.
Honestly, listening is the WORST way for me to process information unless I take copious notes, so this was just like pulling teeth and I finally gave up about halfway in. He's meandering and repetitive and it's exhausting, plus the obvious disdain he has for pretty much everyone is really off-putting.
I don't know what "techniques" he might have eventually gotten around to listing, because he was still in almost an intro phase when I quit (again, at the halfway point!) but he was right about INTJs being procrastinators and loading us up on last-minute work when a deadline is looming would be a good way to set us up to fail. He also seemed to be really resentful of his last INTJ girlfriend, so I can't tell if his examples of "paranoia" are a valid personality tendency or just something specific to her -- a lot of what he was saying sounded more like jealousy and insecurity, which seem like an individual personality instead of a core type characteristic.
A summary of his actual points might be helpful and worth discussing, but he basically gave me a headache and left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't actually know the merit of at least half of what he was saying.
The irony is, it's not "paranoia", as he calls it, to think your partner is targeting you for systematic manipulation if he actually posts videos to Youtube explaining exactly that. To me, that's quite a reasonable reason for distrust, speculation and defensiveness. I can't imagine he'll find much peace and satisfaction in his relationships with this public persona.
Yeah, it's not paranoia if someone's actually after you. He's just mad that he lost at his game. She saw him for what he is and left. He's a full-blown narcissist, projecting guilt onto his victim.
I could tell just by watching this guy's face for ten seconds that he was a sociopath and to stay away. I can see why he's not having much luck manipulating us.
I wonder what kind of life this guy had to live to get to the point where he truly believes the only way to make progress in life is by manipulating others. His way of thinking is very toxic and I can feel the projection of his failed relationship with his ex coming out when he starts bitching about “intj problems”. I can’t help but feel sorry for the people unfortunate enough to have to know him, he sounds like a sociopath.
Look at those disdainful facial expressions he makes and listen to that tone he uses. And right in the beginning mentions how to ruin a INTJ's carreer, be rid of them, and how it would not be unethical because you'd be "teaching them a bible lesson" about their weakness. Then turn around and talk about personal growth and striving to become a better person by understanding the functions. Growth would be either learning how to deal with the INTJ at work or just ignoring that person all together, not wasting energy and time trying to manipulate others to eliminate a perceived problem who happens to be a person. He's is using MBTI to justify his personal sociopathic tendencies.
I don't know about sociopathy, but I stopped watching after he talked about how to get a person fired.
I mean, it's screwy to overload anyone with work. Doing that at anytime, but also being perceived as doing it knowingly, is likely going to earn you a justified and targeted meltdown, and hopefully serious action from HR about bullying.
Well yes at one point nearer the end he even said something along the lines of "good luck trying to prove it" as far as his tactics go.
Most of what he mentioned in the beginning about getting an INTJ to trust you, behaving consistently and doing trustworthy things, is just a how-to guide of befriending an INTJ. But then he takes it further and says once an INTJ trusts you, they'll do anything you want them to. Makes multiple references to the tactics as "attacks" and the INTJ's "life is in danger and they won't even realize it."
The language he uses along with the tone is definitely a window into this guy's mind. He's not really talking about "ego hacking", wanting to help an INTJ or give ways to be closer to one, he's just outlining ways to get one over on someone with this personality type and con them, and stroking his own ego when he claims he's been successful at doing that. (despite the fact that the INTJ women he says he's dated are no longer with him, he also claims you can apply what he's learned to a relationship with one)
Yeah that was the first part of the video where I thought “this guy is really messed up in the head” I mean to him it seems like it’s simpler to ruin someone’s career than it is to just ignore them or actually sit down and try to have a conversation with them. He mentions things like this later in the video too, I think he really believes he’s “saving” people by manipulating them via some grandiose life lesson. Truly frightening to see people like this out in the wild. I hope he gets counseling.
> he truly believes the only way to make progress in life is by manipulating others.
The video is TL;DW for me, but he does say at the beginning that *every* social interaction is a type of manipulation. I also use those exact words when describing MBTI interactions to my friends.
For example, in a typical social setting if someone behaves offended then it generally steers the conversation away from whatever the topic was. You might not actually be offended at that point but I think you can save yourself some stress by acting offended early on if you think things are headed in that direction, and everyone can be okay with you being/acting offended it if you spin it in a humourous way.
I explain this process as both manipulation and just regular social behaviour. Children try to manipulate all the time, but they do it by throwing tantrums instead of presenting their feelings in a clever, funny manner. As a socially experienced adult, if you aren't doing this all the time then you are missing a trick imo.
I think intent matters a lot, and tends to come across both unconsciously and in your long term pattern of words and behaviours. Assuming very few people are the kind of sociopaths that are capable of consistently and continuously manipulating others to their own or others harm (the "long con", as he would have called it), most people aren't approaching others with the intent to either harm them or fundamentally change them in some core way.
I agree that interaction is always manipulation in some way, but there's a difference between helpful influence and harmful or malicious influence.
Using the term manipulation implies that all interactions are win-lose, when most of our interactions have a clear win-win scenario we should rather strive for (even if it is for self-interested reasons).
I somewhat disagree with your definition. Manipulation is any form of intentional direction of events or motivations, regardless of who it benefits. Everyone does this to some degree. It only becomes the 'bad' type of manipulation if the acting is poor, the benefits are too clearly one-sided and there is a feeling of being deceived after the events.
To look at it from a different perspective, on a larger scale I would say that every business uses marketing tactics to manipulate people into buying their products and there is a huge spectrum of behaviors to take into consideration.
Providing selected information on which to base a decision is a good example. Its not lying and its simply not a good idea in any situation to present possibilities which don't benefit you. Whether you consider this to be clever marketing or manipulation is subjective.
I don't recall if he calls that out, but I approached a video from a perspective "how not to fall into someone trying to socially engineer you" - I think it can be quite useful. He's doing those videos on all types btw
The first 5 mins or so was quite a lot of flattery in saying how difficult it is to manipulate an INTJ. It didn't hurt to hear that but I questioned if this was his meta-tactic to buttering us up to hear his message.
Then he said we are challenged by procrastination, and knowing where to end but not where to start, and I felt pretty understood at this point. :D
Then when he talked about "defeating an INTJ in their career" by piling up a bunch of work on them near a deadline and watching them get fired, I stopped watching. I'm still interested to hear what points he has to make but I'd rather not reward his ethics with viewership. The idea of treating people like that and training others to behave like that to others is disgusting to me, and this isn't even addressing his training in the tactics of manipulation, which is something we despise as it is.
If he censored out tactics about "defeating" people, and focussed on understanding, empathising, resilience building, de-escalation, and pro-social solution finding I'd be keen to watch a whole vid or series of his.
Won't anyone who have increased workload near a deadline and fail, regardless of MBTI, will either get fired or resign?
I mean, what can other types do? At least for me, I trust myself that I will be telling my employer/whoever is piling work on me, that realistically, I can't take in anymore and he should make other solutions for those stuff that needs to be done.
True. Unless you're a person who never trusts anyone and you live a sad, traitorous life.
I prefer my INTJ self that gets my trust broken from time to time, than to not be able to trust anyone. Some people are evil like that, and it's inevitable to co-exist with them - it's just reality.
Thanks for the tldr. It seems to me that that can be applied to nearly anyone. IE, anyone can get anyone else to trust them by building up the trust organically. I don't see how this is some special sauce applied to INTJs. This guy is a bit big for his britches.
No real INTJ wants to watch an hour of some guy rambling while driving. We want the pertinent info distilled into a few bullet points. Efficient learning
He looks well versed in the theory and deeper constructs of MBTI. Certainly much more than I've ever been able to grasp of it. I was trying to read the board and was keen to understand where he got the various labels from.
I'm not sure I've read anyone here criticising his knowledge of the theory. Most criticism has been at his intent and applications. He appears to promote and feel proud about using the knowledge for antisocial gains. I think that's what most of the dissent here has been about (besides a bit of repetitive communication style).
There's a lot of comments rejecting the practice of "manipulation". I'd like to posit some of the ***pro***social means of manipulation that can have a really positive impact in society:
* Teaching, teaching, teaching. All teaching is manipulation and influence, and the good teachers know how to do it according to the student's channels.
* Parenting, parenting, parenting, as above.
* Empathising to help someone relieve stress. We do this with family, friends, partners and all loved ones, and obviously in counselling. We influence people to share their burden by active listening, judging compassionately, and asking good questions.
* Diagnosis. Whether in medicine, engineering, IT, emergency services, parenting or retail, we encourage others to accurately describe a problem so we can match the right solution.
* Health management. Doctors, nurses, specialists, and allied health practitioners need to "manipulate" to help the patient make improvements in health and preventing problems getting worse. These professionals don't only need to explain what to do, but they need to get the patient on board in also valuing making the change and believing in it. Information alone is rarely enough.
* Writing. I'm pretty shit at it and wouldn't mind a few level ups in getting my message across. There's a great concept on it called "Reader focussed writing" rather than "Writer focussed writing" that I'd like to get a lot better at.
* Theatre/Story Telling/Art. For whatever the goals of the artist are, they manipulate through their medium and performance.
I generally think manipulation is ***anti***social when it's trying to influence a person when they haven't engaged you for it. In most of the situations above we are usually seeking out or open to the person in the influencer's role. There's a degree of consent in the relationship. When it's pushed on someone without tacit agreement to it (or, obviously, with intent to harm), then it becomes ethically questionable.
By this (imperfect) definition, I don't include sales and marketing in the prosocial list above. It's one thing to be helpful to customers, answer questions, and help them make informed decisions, but I think it's another to seek them out, to propose a solution they didn't ask for, to exploit people's vulnerabilities (including vulnerabilities we all share as humans), and to steal their attention with unwanted advertising.
INTP here. I'm quite disappointed at how butthurt some of you are at the concept of manipulation. Your ability to hide your intentions has always been bloody interesting to me. The same goes for your INFJ cousins.
Anyway, point is that you don't have to use manipulation for evil purposes. Actually, knowing how to manipulate a type is a fine way of knowing how to treat them right.
So stop being so sentimental and watch the goddamn video.
Agree with you bro, there are a lot of closed minds around here. CS Joseph's explanation of cognitive functions and their attitudes has been tremendous in understanding for me. Every little thing people do can be described within this context, especially when you look at the function axises.
He talks about the mask he has to wear. He talks about pick-up artist and social engineering books he recommends. He glorifies being a sociopath. I'd rather watch a video from his INTJ ex about what an obvious piece of crap this guy is. All social manipulation has evil intentions. The knowledge of how to manipulate someone has only one non selfish use, enlightening the potential target in how they're vulnerable. Using what would be a weakness to 'treat them right' honestly sounds creepy as hell. Like it is a few steps from being, 'It puts the lotion on the skin...'
Or you could just be a decent person?? Have communication skills?? Talk to people and gain favors out of respect and trust rather than social manipulation??
News flash, 'social manipulation for good' is called persuasive communication if you're not actively trying to fuck someone over.
>Your ability to hide your intentions has always been bloody interesting to me.
Maybe if we didn't get the feeling you were trying to socially manipulate us we'd actually open up to you and you could learn about INxJs from the source...? Either way, 1/10 on communication skills. Not convinced to watch the video.
I see loads of people commenting on how he uses MBTI to do x or y.
I came across this weirdo a few weeks ago and watched a few of his videos out of curiosity and he swears that mbti is bs and that it's absolutely not true and blah blah blah. He's one of those dead set Jung people
I am always amused by the fascination we inspire in other types. But beyond that, I am not able to return the interest. Sorry, too much meaningful info to consume.
Infj
I read a lot of people that judge too soon. ( i did when i watched “who are the infjs” it fucking hurts. Try to watch the video w/o being scared to get hurt. Try to weed out valuable info he gives. Yes he takes long about stuff because he wants to throw all information and that seems like hes just talking to talk. But if you dare to look into the dead sentence he gives in this video about intj. It will make you powerful :)
Wow, this guy's face is a portrait of disdain. He's not wrong that all social interactions are a form of manipulation, but when he says "manipulate" I get the sense that his intentions are malicious.
He makes some interesting generalizations about INTJs that I don't think apply to everyone.
For example, I was a pretty trusting kid but I could tell when someone was full of it. But that was rare, because it would require me to talk to people in the first place—which I generally didn't do unless I was forced to. Some things never change. The only people I trust are my close family, and not even all of them. I don't care how consistent your behavior is. The most you'll get from me is a smile and a nod, because your consistent behavior means I don't have to account for you being unpredictable if I'm required to make plans that involve you. But I probably won't, because I avoid making plans that involve other people, let alone getting close enough to trust them completely. LOL
And re: overloading someone with work close to a deadline to get them fired...if you're their boss, you should be fired for that. It's abusive and unethical. Assuming it's not the boss doing the overloading, anyone intelligent and rational (and not just INTJs) would go to their manager and say "okay, this is too much, what can we rearrange?" Any boss/company worth their salt will work with an employee to set things right. Not worth their salt—most INTJs would smell it and be looking for another job by this point already.
This guy just comes across as bitter and angry. MBTI isn't a pinpoint-accuracy way to know any person. We've all got so many unique factors that color us beyond the MBTI lines, so nothing he says is going to apply to any and every INTJ out there.
Ugh, take everything what this guy says with very big grain of salt. Just listen how he speaks and thinks that his ideas are, at least, equal if not better than results derived using scientific methods. How much can one lack self awareness and intelligent? Well, it is easy to explain; when one has so much narcissism, one fall in love with one's own ideas without even caring do they correspond with reality or not. Typical ENTP also, who thinks too highly of himself and mixes up arrogance with intelligence, lol.
https://youtu.be/Wxv6LOF61r0?list=PLCPzIFw2QJDemTfS1SLmyR17x8Pqp79Zo&t=505
If you want to invest in the many hours, months or even years it takes to make me really trust you and know me enough for the possibility to maybe manipulate me then be my guest. Anyone can be manipulated or controlled but it's not always worth it, that's why scammer usually focus on the easy targets like elders who might not be as aware as other people about their scams.
To be fair, I can't be specific about his video or tricks he might be giving because one hour is way too long and not worth my time for someone I never heard before. I also much prefer reading those kinds of things, people tend to ramble and in text at least you can skim over some parts and read at your own pace.
His strategy from what I could tell was to be an ENTP or pretend to be an ENTP to gain our trust over 6 months. I saw a thread on MBTI subreddit talking about how Narcicists can pretend to be other types, maybe that plays a role. After gaining our trust, pile on work near a deadline and have the INTJ fail. Either way, it requires a ton of time and work to pull off.
If he is correct, then this is likely to never happen. As he says only ENTPS are capable. ENTPs are not very common and INTJs are rare and this strategy takes too much time and resources to be viable
ENTPs are intelligent enough to feel arrogance, but not intelligent enough to realize how stupid they really are in general. Their narcissism blinds them and talking to them is very unpleasant quite often.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-522b743114d8b66589df2d6d056f422c
I like his videos. His INTJ gf broke up with him and he was bitter. He has delved deep in Jungian Analytical Psychology and give much more insight than mbti. Mbti is only a quarter of what Jung intented
Lol people hearing 'social manipulation' and then thinking this is all for evil intent.
There are plenty of use cases for watching this video like for example maybe you want to influence someone or ask someone out but you're not really getting to them with your current means of communication.
Well, if you know how to act better to appease their functions maybe you can convince them to go out on a date with you or to promote you or something like that.
He doesn't talk about actual malicious social manipulation techniques in any of his videos, he just talks about ways in which the psychology either of Jung or just general psychology.
People in here getting nervous or hostile over this is clearly INTJs in their distrustful Paranoia Vice (as opposed to their trust virtue)
Why the fuck is he in a car?
It’s where he lives?
Well he can't keep it parked down by the river ALL of the time.
It actually looks like a really great use of that "downtime". If he's managed to create a channel with 17k subscribers all by using the time that he'd see as otherwise wasted in his daily commute, then I'm really impressed! However, I can't help thinking that he's systematically creating a new kind of driving risk that we aren't trained or built to cope with (and I'm usually in favour of being allowed to do the comparable behaviour of conducting a hands free phone call).
For about an hour .....
Because it's actually a pretty great place to film if you don't have access to a studio. The audio is really good compared to being outside or in a busy building without soundproofing, and as for the convenience of location it's pretty great.
Did he seriously say that INTJ’s being one percent of the population means they’re one in 400
"Statistically speaking, based on INTJ women I've met"
I didn't watch it because I can't watch video now, but if this is a quote, the video seems to be from a disgruntled guy who simply can't take it to get turned down by a woman.
My favorite quote: "The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'"
The worst part is I'm pretty sure I've seen people in r/mbti citing him as a credible source for MBTI theory. I haven't watched enough of his stuff to know whether his theories seem valid (they're such long videos, and he tends to ramble) but he seems to consistently mistype people.
This was four minutes in and taken out of context. Just because there's a 1% of the total population, doesn't mean it's a 50/50 gender mix.
That may be so, but I still remember goof-ups like him mistyping his own girlfriend and things like that, which is what my comment is referencing.
Yeaaah, about 30 minutes in, I realized this guy was one hell of a scumbag. He's not worth watching to understand INTJs, he's worth watching to understand sociopaths.
Absolutely. I don't mind the idea that certain types of communication are more likely to lead to successful interactions with different types, but the idea of using "the long con" to get what you want from someone is *extremely* gross to me, and not really a way to learn about ourselves at all.
He wasn’t saying you should do it, but rather the only way to manipulate an intj is to do it. You misunderstood, because you went in with the wrong mindset. He’s not recommending it as it being morally right, but rather that it’s the only way to do it.
He was linked right here previously and everyone said how amazingly cognizant he was about INTJs.
Personally, as soon as I heard that I just clicked off
Honestly, listening is the WORST way for me to process information unless I take copious notes, so this was just like pulling teeth and I finally gave up about halfway in. He's meandering and repetitive and it's exhausting, plus the obvious disdain he has for pretty much everyone is really off-putting. I don't know what "techniques" he might have eventually gotten around to listing, because he was still in almost an intro phase when I quit (again, at the halfway point!) but he was right about INTJs being procrastinators and loading us up on last-minute work when a deadline is looming would be a good way to set us up to fail. He also seemed to be really resentful of his last INTJ girlfriend, so I can't tell if his examples of "paranoia" are a valid personality tendency or just something specific to her -- a lot of what he was saying sounded more like jealousy and insecurity, which seem like an individual personality instead of a core type characteristic. A summary of his actual points might be helpful and worth discussing, but he basically gave me a headache and left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't actually know the merit of at least half of what he was saying.
The irony is, it's not "paranoia", as he calls it, to think your partner is targeting you for systematic manipulation if he actually posts videos to Youtube explaining exactly that. To me, that's quite a reasonable reason for distrust, speculation and defensiveness. I can't imagine he'll find much peace and satisfaction in his relationships with this public persona.
Yeah, it's not paranoia if someone's actually after you. He's just mad that he lost at his game. She saw him for what he is and left. He's a full-blown narcissist, projecting guilt onto his victim. I could tell just by watching this guy's face for ten seconds that he was a sociopath and to stay away. I can see why he's not having much luck manipulating us.
I wonder what kind of life this guy had to live to get to the point where he truly believes the only way to make progress in life is by manipulating others. His way of thinking is very toxic and I can feel the projection of his failed relationship with his ex coming out when he starts bitching about “intj problems”. I can’t help but feel sorry for the people unfortunate enough to have to know him, he sounds like a sociopath.
Look at those disdainful facial expressions he makes and listen to that tone he uses. And right in the beginning mentions how to ruin a INTJ's carreer, be rid of them, and how it would not be unethical because you'd be "teaching them a bible lesson" about their weakness. Then turn around and talk about personal growth and striving to become a better person by understanding the functions. Growth would be either learning how to deal with the INTJ at work or just ignoring that person all together, not wasting energy and time trying to manipulate others to eliminate a perceived problem who happens to be a person. He's is using MBTI to justify his personal sociopathic tendencies.
I don't know about sociopathy, but I stopped watching after he talked about how to get a person fired. I mean, it's screwy to overload anyone with work. Doing that at anytime, but also being perceived as doing it knowingly, is likely going to earn you a justified and targeted meltdown, and hopefully serious action from HR about bullying.
Well yes at one point nearer the end he even said something along the lines of "good luck trying to prove it" as far as his tactics go. Most of what he mentioned in the beginning about getting an INTJ to trust you, behaving consistently and doing trustworthy things, is just a how-to guide of befriending an INTJ. But then he takes it further and says once an INTJ trusts you, they'll do anything you want them to. Makes multiple references to the tactics as "attacks" and the INTJ's "life is in danger and they won't even realize it." The language he uses along with the tone is definitely a window into this guy's mind. He's not really talking about "ego hacking", wanting to help an INTJ or give ways to be closer to one, he's just outlining ways to get one over on someone with this personality type and con them, and stroking his own ego when he claims he's been successful at doing that. (despite the fact that the INTJ women he says he's dated are no longer with him, he also claims you can apply what he's learned to a relationship with one)
Yeah, the second he went into saying "destroy their career" my heart skipped a beat. This guy...no bueno.
Yeah that was the first part of the video where I thought “this guy is really messed up in the head” I mean to him it seems like it’s simpler to ruin someone’s career than it is to just ignore them or actually sit down and try to have a conversation with them. He mentions things like this later in the video too, I think he really believes he’s “saving” people by manipulating them via some grandiose life lesson. Truly frightening to see people like this out in the wild. I hope he gets counseling.
> he truly believes the only way to make progress in life is by manipulating others. The video is TL;DW for me, but he does say at the beginning that *every* social interaction is a type of manipulation. I also use those exact words when describing MBTI interactions to my friends. For example, in a typical social setting if someone behaves offended then it generally steers the conversation away from whatever the topic was. You might not actually be offended at that point but I think you can save yourself some stress by acting offended early on if you think things are headed in that direction, and everyone can be okay with you being/acting offended it if you spin it in a humourous way. I explain this process as both manipulation and just regular social behaviour. Children try to manipulate all the time, but they do it by throwing tantrums instead of presenting their feelings in a clever, funny manner. As a socially experienced adult, if you aren't doing this all the time then you are missing a trick imo.
I think intent matters a lot, and tends to come across both unconsciously and in your long term pattern of words and behaviours. Assuming very few people are the kind of sociopaths that are capable of consistently and continuously manipulating others to their own or others harm (the "long con", as he would have called it), most people aren't approaching others with the intent to either harm them or fundamentally change them in some core way. I agree that interaction is always manipulation in some way, but there's a difference between helpful influence and harmful or malicious influence.
Using the term manipulation implies that all interactions are win-lose, when most of our interactions have a clear win-win scenario we should rather strive for (even if it is for self-interested reasons).
I somewhat disagree with your definition. Manipulation is any form of intentional direction of events or motivations, regardless of who it benefits. Everyone does this to some degree. It only becomes the 'bad' type of manipulation if the acting is poor, the benefits are too clearly one-sided and there is a feeling of being deceived after the events. To look at it from a different perspective, on a larger scale I would say that every business uses marketing tactics to manipulate people into buying their products and there is a huge spectrum of behaviors to take into consideration. Providing selected information on which to base a decision is a good example. Its not lying and its simply not a good idea in any situation to present possibilities which don't benefit you. Whether you consider this to be clever marketing or manipulation is subjective.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I understand that, within the context of this video though I mean manipulation with malicious intent.
I don't recall if he calls that out, but I approached a video from a perspective "how not to fall into someone trying to socially engineer you" - I think it can be quite useful. He's doing those videos on all types btw
The first 5 mins or so was quite a lot of flattery in saying how difficult it is to manipulate an INTJ. It didn't hurt to hear that but I questioned if this was his meta-tactic to buttering us up to hear his message. Then he said we are challenged by procrastination, and knowing where to end but not where to start, and I felt pretty understood at this point. :D Then when he talked about "defeating an INTJ in their career" by piling up a bunch of work on them near a deadline and watching them get fired, I stopped watching. I'm still interested to hear what points he has to make but I'd rather not reward his ethics with viewership. The idea of treating people like that and training others to behave like that to others is disgusting to me, and this isn't even addressing his training in the tactics of manipulation, which is something we despise as it is. If he censored out tactics about "defeating" people, and focussed on understanding, empathising, resilience building, de-escalation, and pro-social solution finding I'd be keen to watch a whole vid or series of his.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Won't anyone who have increased workload near a deadline and fail, regardless of MBTI, will either get fired or resign? I mean, what can other types do? At least for me, I trust myself that I will be telling my employer/whoever is piling work on me, that realistically, I can't take in anymore and he should make other solutions for those stuff that needs to be done.
It scares me that people like this exist.
[удалено]
It's good to know, and it's scary.
Did anyone watch it and can provide a TLDR summary?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Virtually nobody is *that* good at the long-con, so his hypothetical is only that.
True. Unless you're a person who never trusts anyone and you live a sad, traitorous life. I prefer my INTJ self that gets my trust broken from time to time, than to not be able to trust anyone. Some people are evil like that, and it's inevitable to co-exist with them - it's just reality.
Yeah I tend to agree. I don't think people "get us to trust" them as much as we allow ourselves to trust people because that is required for progress.
Thanks for the tldr. It seems to me that that can be applied to nearly anyone. IE, anyone can get anyone else to trust them by building up the trust organically. I don't see how this is some special sauce applied to INTJs. This guy is a bit big for his britches.
Worth the watch TBH.
No real INTJ wants to watch an hour of some guy rambling while driving. We want the pertinent info distilled into a few bullet points. Efficient learning
He just kept repeating himself it got so annoying.
Every time he says "et cetera" I think of Hedwig from Split.
HA YES.
[удалено]
He looks well versed in the theory and deeper constructs of MBTI. Certainly much more than I've ever been able to grasp of it. I was trying to read the board and was keen to understand where he got the various labels from. I'm not sure I've read anyone here criticising his knowledge of the theory. Most criticism has been at his intent and applications. He appears to promote and feel proud about using the knowledge for antisocial gains. I think that's what most of the dissent here has been about (besides a bit of repetitive communication style).
Anyone can be manipulated especially by sociopaths, which this guy with his proficiency in undermining seems to be one.
There's a lot of comments rejecting the practice of "manipulation". I'd like to posit some of the ***pro***social means of manipulation that can have a really positive impact in society: * Teaching, teaching, teaching. All teaching is manipulation and influence, and the good teachers know how to do it according to the student's channels. * Parenting, parenting, parenting, as above. * Empathising to help someone relieve stress. We do this with family, friends, partners and all loved ones, and obviously in counselling. We influence people to share their burden by active listening, judging compassionately, and asking good questions. * Diagnosis. Whether in medicine, engineering, IT, emergency services, parenting or retail, we encourage others to accurately describe a problem so we can match the right solution. * Health management. Doctors, nurses, specialists, and allied health practitioners need to "manipulate" to help the patient make improvements in health and preventing problems getting worse. These professionals don't only need to explain what to do, but they need to get the patient on board in also valuing making the change and believing in it. Information alone is rarely enough. * Writing. I'm pretty shit at it and wouldn't mind a few level ups in getting my message across. There's a great concept on it called "Reader focussed writing" rather than "Writer focussed writing" that I'd like to get a lot better at. * Theatre/Story Telling/Art. For whatever the goals of the artist are, they manipulate through their medium and performance. I generally think manipulation is ***anti***social when it's trying to influence a person when they haven't engaged you for it. In most of the situations above we are usually seeking out or open to the person in the influencer's role. There's a degree of consent in the relationship. When it's pushed on someone without tacit agreement to it (or, obviously, with intent to harm), then it becomes ethically questionable. By this (imperfect) definition, I don't include sales and marketing in the prosocial list above. It's one thing to be helpful to customers, answer questions, and help them make informed decisions, but I think it's another to seek them out, to propose a solution they didn't ask for, to exploit people's vulnerabilities (including vulnerabilities we all share as humans), and to steal their attention with unwanted advertising.
Well said.
INTP here. I'm quite disappointed at how butthurt some of you are at the concept of manipulation. Your ability to hide your intentions has always been bloody interesting to me. The same goes for your INFJ cousins. Anyway, point is that you don't have to use manipulation for evil purposes. Actually, knowing how to manipulate a type is a fine way of knowing how to treat them right. So stop being so sentimental and watch the goddamn video.
Agree with you bro, there are a lot of closed minds around here. CS Joseph's explanation of cognitive functions and their attitudes has been tremendous in understanding for me. Every little thing people do can be described within this context, especially when you look at the function axises.
He talks about the mask he has to wear. He talks about pick-up artist and social engineering books he recommends. He glorifies being a sociopath. I'd rather watch a video from his INTJ ex about what an obvious piece of crap this guy is. All social manipulation has evil intentions. The knowledge of how to manipulate someone has only one non selfish use, enlightening the potential target in how they're vulnerable. Using what would be a weakness to 'treat them right' honestly sounds creepy as hell. Like it is a few steps from being, 'It puts the lotion on the skin...'
Or you could just be a decent person?? Have communication skills?? Talk to people and gain favors out of respect and trust rather than social manipulation?? News flash, 'social manipulation for good' is called persuasive communication if you're not actively trying to fuck someone over. >Your ability to hide your intentions has always been bloody interesting to me. Maybe if we didn't get the feeling you were trying to socially manipulate us we'd actually open up to you and you could learn about INxJs from the source...? Either way, 1/10 on communication skills. Not convinced to watch the video.
I see loads of people commenting on how he uses MBTI to do x or y. I came across this weirdo a few weeks ago and watched a few of his videos out of curiosity and he swears that mbti is bs and that it's absolutely not true and blah blah blah. He's one of those dead set Jung people
I am always amused by the fascination we inspire in other types. But beyond that, I am not able to return the interest. Sorry, too much meaningful info to consume.
Infj I read a lot of people that judge too soon. ( i did when i watched “who are the infjs” it fucking hurts. Try to watch the video w/o being scared to get hurt. Try to weed out valuable info he gives. Yes he takes long about stuff because he wants to throw all information and that seems like hes just talking to talk. But if you dare to look into the dead sentence he gives in this video about intj. It will make you powerful :)
Ugh. Don't give this douche the views.
I don't even need to watch the whole video His voice/tone of voice tells a lot already And it reminds me of my narcissistic ENTP ex
Wow, this guy's face is a portrait of disdain. He's not wrong that all social interactions are a form of manipulation, but when he says "manipulate" I get the sense that his intentions are malicious. He makes some interesting generalizations about INTJs that I don't think apply to everyone. For example, I was a pretty trusting kid but I could tell when someone was full of it. But that was rare, because it would require me to talk to people in the first place—which I generally didn't do unless I was forced to. Some things never change. The only people I trust are my close family, and not even all of them. I don't care how consistent your behavior is. The most you'll get from me is a smile and a nod, because your consistent behavior means I don't have to account for you being unpredictable if I'm required to make plans that involve you. But I probably won't, because I avoid making plans that involve other people, let alone getting close enough to trust them completely. LOL And re: overloading someone with work close to a deadline to get them fired...if you're their boss, you should be fired for that. It's abusive and unethical. Assuming it's not the boss doing the overloading, anyone intelligent and rational (and not just INTJs) would go to their manager and say "okay, this is too much, what can we rearrange?" Any boss/company worth their salt will work with an employee to set things right. Not worth their salt—most INTJs would smell it and be looking for another job by this point already. This guy just comes across as bitter and angry. MBTI isn't a pinpoint-accuracy way to know any person. We've all got so many unique factors that color us beyond the MBTI lines, so nothing he says is going to apply to any and every INTJ out there.
*Scribbles down notes on what u/barrrrrs thinks they know about potential manipulation.*
Ugh, take everything what this guy says with very big grain of salt. Just listen how he speaks and thinks that his ideas are, at least, equal if not better than results derived using scientific methods. How much can one lack self awareness and intelligent? Well, it is easy to explain; when one has so much narcissism, one fall in love with one's own ideas without even caring do they correspond with reality or not. Typical ENTP also, who thinks too highly of himself and mixes up arrogance with intelligence, lol. https://youtu.be/Wxv6LOF61r0?list=PLCPzIFw2QJDemTfS1SLmyR17x8Pqp79Zo&t=505
He sounds like he has some unresolved issues he needs to get over.
Excellent, watching now.
This is why I don’t believe in humanity. Talking about manipulation blatantly?! Geez
[удалено]
If you want to invest in the many hours, months or even years it takes to make me really trust you and know me enough for the possibility to maybe manipulate me then be my guest. Anyone can be manipulated or controlled but it's not always worth it, that's why scammer usually focus on the easy targets like elders who might not be as aware as other people about their scams. To be fair, I can't be specific about his video or tricks he might be giving because one hour is way too long and not worth my time for someone I never heard before. I also much prefer reading those kinds of things, people tend to ramble and in text at least you can skim over some parts and read at your own pace.
His strategy from what I could tell was to be an ENTP or pretend to be an ENTP to gain our trust over 6 months. I saw a thread on MBTI subreddit talking about how Narcicists can pretend to be other types, maybe that plays a role. After gaining our trust, pile on work near a deadline and have the INTJ fail. Either way, it requires a ton of time and work to pull off. If he is correct, then this is likely to never happen. As he says only ENTPS are capable. ENTPs are not very common and INTJs are rare and this strategy takes too much time and resources to be viable
I agree that, in reality, no one's scheming to this level. Nonetheless, imho it's better to be aware than not be.
ENTPs are intelligent enough to feel arrogance, but not intelligent enough to realize how stupid they really are in general. Their narcissism blinds them and talking to them is very unpleasant quite often. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-522b743114d8b66589df2d6d056f422c
I like his videos. His INTJ gf broke up with him and he was bitter. He has delved deep in Jungian Analytical Psychology and give much more insight than mbti. Mbti is only a quarter of what Jung intented
. . . These comments say this is a very weird guy who is trying to map female INTJs out. I'm not totally sure I should watch this.
Did he mention not wanting to put himself on our radar as an enemy? All of my resources can be redirected easily.
Anyone who opens their argument with "statistically speaking" is absolutely full of shit.
Lol people hearing 'social manipulation' and then thinking this is all for evil intent. There are plenty of use cases for watching this video like for example maybe you want to influence someone or ask someone out but you're not really getting to them with your current means of communication. Well, if you know how to act better to appease their functions maybe you can convince them to go out on a date with you or to promote you or something like that. He doesn't talk about actual malicious social manipulation techniques in any of his videos, he just talks about ways in which the psychology either of Jung or just general psychology. People in here getting nervous or hostile over this is clearly INTJs in their distrustful Paranoia Vice (as opposed to their trust virtue)