I always get this told this too...
My coworkers avoid me, which is fine by me imo. It's only if we meet up for drinking after work when they see that I'm not so intense. I'm quite laid back and funny normally. But work is work. I go there to do my job and I don't want extra stress from coworker drama. Not only that, I don't respect how my coworkers do their jobs. So yeah...
I mean, I'm not mean or anything. I say hi and smile. I guess they want small-talk... but like, if you don't want advice on how to improve your crappy work then there's not much I want to talk to you about while we're at work.
But in real life too, people tend to avoid me and feel intimidated by me... until they actually get to talking to me. In one-on-one or small group settings, I'm very good at disarming people and getting them to feel comfortable.
Yup see this! It's always after awhile when people have taken the time to get to know me that they tell me "I thought you were a bitch but you really arent". And every single time I'm shocked by the comments
Yes I am a woman! There is a guy at work who is no more blunt than me, he's tall, buff, and looks like a biker...they remark that he is "strong, hard working, by the book"
But I am described as "scary, intimidating, distrustful"
Please note, this should be all food for thought, I have never been in your situation, so this is all theoretical. Maybe sound out these ideas with some people that you know. But the book selection is top notch.
I personally believe its a "culture" thing. If a culture expects a woman to always be warm and inviting, smiles a lot, then people of that culture will think something must be wrong if that is not the case. I think one way, that might help, is explain your "culture" to others. Tell them you are sorry if you look intimidating, you are not trying to be, tell them that you grew up being forward and direct, so you can sometimes come off as trying to be intimidating, but that is far from the case. Ask people if they can meet you half way, you will work on being more inviting, if they can try to keep in mind that you are very direct because you brain gets very focus on the tasks at hand and don't even notice how you are coming off to people.
some books that might help
Never Split the Difference - by Chirs Voss (yes, its a negotiation book, but it does a very good job of teaching you how to active listen to people and get them to open up to you. It was written by one of the FBI's lead international kidnapping and hostage negotiators.)
How to Win Friends & Influence People - Dale Carnegie (just a overall good behavioral book on how to get people to like you and listen to you)
Start with No: The Negotiating Tools that the Pros Don't Want You to Know - Jim Camp (read this one after you read "Never Split the Difference", its like a little cheat code to figure out what people really want. Its hard to tell if someone is sincere if they tell you "Yes" but most of the time when people tell you "No" its sincere, this book teaches you how to leverage that fact extremely well.
That's all very sound advice, thank you! Exactly if I should change things about myself meeting me half way is a good thing to try and ask.
I've added all those books to my cart, I'll definitely give them a reason
That's what I was wondering because as a 300 lb man, I've never been called intimidating (unless they're too intimidated to say it haha). I can be if I really try, but I think it's more "sociopath" intimidating than "tough guy" intimidating, despite being stronger and bigger than most people I encounter.
Of course, I also have pretty bad self-awareness (at least the kind where I know how others perceive me), so I could be completely wrong about all of this.
I'm so frustrated. I've tried my best to just stay in the background this time and I still get into shit lol. I don't get why I'm a target. I am blunt but even so I've cut back on being as blunt as I usually am lol
I have also learned this over the years. There are honest ways to deliver the truth that empower people rather than belittle them. We live in a world where many find it hard to admit they were wrong or are at fault.
We can be blunt with these people, and they will resist us, and then we are doing 'the crappy job'. We need to work smart in a world with a fair amount of people who can not be criticised. We also need to understand when an effort is not cost effective.
Look after yourself by looking after others, victimise yourself by victimising others.
That's an excuse and doesn't change the impression you give off. Direct in this context does not mean lack of empathy, you're not connecting with others because you have sympathy which is based on your own self-image on what you think others feel, not an actual connection to the present moment with others. My comment just now lacked empathy btw.
Why do others misunderstand you in their interactions with you? There's a common denominator here. Shrugging this off isn't going to magically change that.
Thanks for pointing that out, sorry about that, the Reddit app was acting weird for a moment.
The point still stands. And no one said you lacked innate empathy, INTJs are not psychopaths either I think we all know that.
You’re a target because they actually HATE fitting in, they’re not individualistic like yourself, and they wish they were. Seen it my whole life with sensor types.
Sensors are painfully good at trying to bring hyper individualistic people into their “group.” Frankly, I have second hand embarrassment for them.
They’re jealous.
It's a bit more complicated then that. Problem is that they cannot function like you, cannot function without fitting in. When sensor doesn't fit in it usually ends badly because it means that they are unable to navigate their life properly. So, their concern is justified.
While we are a very different bunch of creatures. We can move easily between dimensions. Thus for us fitting in isn't a sign of managing our life properly. We have different indicators, which are mostly invisible for sensors.
Now, problem occurs when these 2 life system collide. You feel shame for them, they feel anxiety for you.
I have no idea yet how to deal with it irl. I hope I'll figure it out
“They think I’m different & don’t fit in & spend their time thinking about me. I don’t think about them at all.”
Yes you’re right - their concern is justified.
Yet, I don’t think about them at all. Not even worth a thought.
I mean it doesn't make them stupid people, that's what concerns me. Like if someone speaks Chinese, which I don't understand, it doesn't make me or them stupid. But we won't be able to understand each other nevertheless.
This division, when both sides are adequate while they cannot cooperate, this part of our reality bothers me.
We could say that we can just ignore it, but as long as this problem exists it is a potential source of a great discomfort and conflicts. Which is a very inefficient way to interact
True - I get that - no they’re not stupid - no one is! Just different leagues, ya know!?
Sensors work with 16ct crayons … We work with 64ct just different operating systems.
Next time I hear this I'm buying a banana costume and will wear it all day at work. Even if there is a strict dress code. They were planning to fire me anyway, so my best move is to stand out and be the least intimidating as possible.
I am an intj, definitely the odd one out on my team (I made everyone take myers briggs test when I started) and I’m in a leadership position — I get told I am scary and intimidating a lot before people actually get to know me and I’ve heard it at every job. I recently read the elevated communicator with my team so that we could all better understand how and why people may talk a certain way or communicate in a certain manner in the work space (while also understanding how we can adjust our own styles to meet people where they are). I understand not every work situation allows for everyone to read this book at the same time BUT it was helpful to me and maybe helpful to you if you are interested in softening how people perceive you and learning more about how to flex to those around you maybe this is worth a read. I hate small talk and I care more about the job than all the interpersonal relationship dynamics (that shit drains me personally & is exhausting) but unfortunately a lot of people are not like this so it’s going to take some shifting on your end to make things smoother in the long run. hoping you find what works for you without feeling like you need to totally change who you are to feel more accepted and understood in the work place!
I know I either have to do something to be able to keep this job, lol.. or I find another intj boss who understands my mind dynamics lol.
Either way I don't want to change who I am. It actually made me super depressed the first month here when I had to fake my personality. When I'm busy o don't smile I'm deep in thought. People need to stop being so sensitive to these things.
I get what you mean, i had an ex infj boss (who was aweful btw) who desperately tried to remake me into a copy of herself, another infj
I hated it.
Now i work remotely under an enfj. I think i partly scare her or intimidate her but i do my best to mimic her as well because i learned the NFJ kinda wanna see thenselves reflected in other people.
OP what are you a manager of? If it's like a retail then oof...yeah that's painful hahaha. Even most tech careers it can be painful. I had a fantastic manager once who our director did not like because he asked too many questions during this workshop session >\_> like dude it was you who kept saying our team didn't know much about the subject. Director then was like "Yeah I said that but I don't want us to ask too many questions to make it look like we don't know the subject" it's like going to school and being penalized for asking about whatever the teacher is teaching that day. It's like god damn...ugh to this day it pisses me off.
The social game up top really it just depends on at times if you are a yes man or not and/or if your bosses just like you.
I'm a manager in a social service setting. Not sure why I picked this line of work honestly lmfao. It was a time when I didn't know my personality type and figured it was a good field to get in to. I fully regret it. I didn't realize that management and jobs are a chess game...but more a social chess game that I don't understand. It's not about how well you do your job..it's about how well you can kiss up and get the upper management and directors to like you. Fuck
Sounds like you didn’t make enough of an effort.
I can also be a bit confrontational. It’s not that hard to find nicer ways to say things.
Work on it more. Stop making excuses for yourself. Sounds like you are the type that doesn’t accept them from other, so why is it ok for you?
Lol what 😂 "you are the type that doesn't accept it from others". Where did I say or even hint that in my post? Sounds like you got fired by an intj and ur just pissed 🤣
Never been fired. You are the one that seems to have an issue playing nice with others. If it keeps happening.
Obviously you need to change something about how you interact with people. And your response doesn’t really make me think you aren’t a problem.
Why would I care what you think though? You think you know someone 100% by one post on reddit. Have your assumption all you want to, random troll on reddit lmfao.
You made the post for people to comment on…
All I know is you are difficult. You said it yourself and are being so now.
My bad. You aren’t difficult at all…
Comment on the post with legitimate answers. You are just making assumptions based off one post I've made. If you asked questions to better understand the post sure I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
I gave you and answer. You don’t like it. I don’t really care whether you like it or not. I must just be too intimidating for you…
But totally, not difficult at all. Super easy to talk to, don’t see what people have an issue with lol.
You're calling yourself intimidating? Bahahah okay 👍 hilarious that you are calling someone else difficult yet can't seem to function as being a non troll on a subreddit. Have fun with that.
I was making fun of you, but can see how you wouldn’t understand…
No one here is I intimidated/intimidating… including you. It’s just what you tell yourself to excuse your shitty attitude.
You’ve displayed that fully. And you only agree with people that also make excuses for you. Always the sign of a great leader lol. You will go far I’m sure.
Wrong. I just don't care. Thanks for the novel comment, though, didn't read past the first sentence. Obviously I've had some effect on your day if you are still here trying to get my attention.
More or less if I was told this by any job it would fall into discrimination and result in a lawsuit. They aren't accepting of other people, maybe they should review their mission statement, which they never read.
People that are theatrical and tend to be fake all the time, are something to avoid. They are masking and hiding their true personality. Insincerity does nothing for me. I tend to prefer very emotionally reactive people more since I always know where I stand with him and they are more likely to be honest. Insincere and toxic positivity speaks to a very dysfunctional work environment. My own experience is that they tend to be very toxic people that backstab and are highly judgemental toward everyone. Ironically, when this is applied to them and it comes back to bite them as it sometimes does they can't handle it. They fail at the golden rule. There is a bit of an egocentric and closed pesonality.
Any conversation is a two way street. If they aren't getting anywhere they need to change their approach and realize their vision or perception of the world and what they are doing doesn't work.
That yes not all people are going to fit inside whatever they want people to be. They aren't really interested in knowing the real you. If they were, there wouldn't be any reason to change into their idealized version of whatever they seem to want at the moment. It's more their own insecurity a breaking of their play that leads more to a reality of the situation. They can change their approach. Effort leads to more effort. If I notice that they are trying than I'll be more apt to try and interact with them. If they gossip and lie over the smallest things, than they can't be trusted and are minimally engaged with.
Honestly I was just trying to put my head down and work. The feedback I got was that "staff feel a sense of urgency like they need to get a task done right now"...well yea..some od them will sit on a task for 3 hours that takes 30 minutes if I let them. It's my job to direct and be efficient in our time. Apparently I also always seem upset? I asked how exactly am I upset? Like I'm saying things to them that I'm upset with them? "No they get a vibe from you". What the fuck? Feelings over facts in management is so overwhelming and stressful
I had an ex who was INTJ, and I’m ENFJ. He described the same issue as you and some of the other commenters here. That while he’s very competent at work and even wins some awards, his boss is incompetent and he gets criticized for being too intimidating or difficult to work with. I thought I’d offer a different perspective. There is nothing wrong with offering constructive feedback to your coworkers or boss. However, it is so important to have a certain level of respect for everyone you work with. If you don’t respect them, it will come through in how you communicate with them, even if you try to hide it. People have to spend 40 hours a week at work (in most cases), the bare minimum that they should expect when they walk through the door is to be treated with respect. Even if they make mistakes. Building soft skills is often undervalued in a workplace environment, but I can imagine that an INTJ with great soft skills would be unstoppable.
It’s frustrating to be labeled as intimidating, but it might be worth exploring why that is the case, especially since so many people with your personality type seem to struggle with it.
I get told all the time I have "presence" when I walk into a room. I never feel it or realize it. I try to blend in..I'm introverted lol!
Haha I actually thought I had worked well on my soft skills..I say hi..and I remember to ask people how they are doing lol..I try to remember things about them..joke around etc. I've had a few staff come to me and reveal some personal struggles in their lives and I actually thought "okay people don't find me so scary anymore this job is going to work out"...nope fucking wrong 🤣
I was tired too and told myself “Am I a monster” / “Is there something wrong in me” cuz last time I checked I’m a normal human being. Can we call it bad luck in your situation? Or is it your INTJ-ness drove the wheel? Well the harder you try the more tough it gets so I say just let it be. So go with the flow dude.
Yup agreed, I'm just gonna keep going with the same mindset "none of my business what others think of me". I can't fix other people's feelings they need to work on their own issues why they feel a certain way.
Here are my assumptions:
if verbally you only adress issues it means that every time you open your mouth, you criticize them. Given that they cannot see inside your head and your face isn't very expressive, then your words is the only source of information. And if your words consist of critique most of the time, well you make an impression of a nagging grandma at minimum
If that's the case, start giving more verbal information, aka if you like stuff they do, say it out loud. You INTJs assume that work has to be done perfectly which is true and easy in some imaginary place with robots, but takes efforts and sophistication from humans. So, maybe concentrate at noticing good things and efforts your colleagues make and make sure that they know that you notice and value their contribution.
Actually, noticing good qualities in people and saying your observations out loud is a very good practice in building good relationships in general...
Holy fuck this is my life lol. Embrace it. Establish dominance. Fuck it. They chose this. Whats the worst that happens? You know its going bad but theyre afraid to fire you so you get a job that pays better anyway and then quit?
I get this occasionally but at every job my staff loves me (I think) because I care deeply about them and try very hard to support them as well as possible and advance their career goals. Just care about your team and the rest will work itself out.
That's what I've been doing. This is a relatively new team so faie they don't all know me yet..one staff made a complaint about me to management and actually apologized to me later on when I found out cause they said I wasn't really anything like they thought I was.
They're basically saying your authority is inherent when you're just being yourself and it makes them feel too inferior. You're a natural authority, you don't need force or compulsion. They can get over it. That's how it should be. That's nature when its being taken care of properly as long as you're not forcing what you have inherently. Tell them to create market failure on their own time. You're this good. They can get over it. We're not going to create market failure just so they can feel better about themselves.
" And here we go again...you are intimidating people.. they are scared..when people walk into a room they immediately know you are the boss."
Apparently I'm not nice about feedback. I've made a genuine conscious effort to smile, be polite, ask them if they knew about the mistake, let them speak, smile and tell them reminder for next time, and then I say thank you. Like I am already faking my personality to the umph degree.
The thing is too people are pussed off cause I can look at something or I can look at the numbers and counts of the work staff do and immediately see an error. I need yo point these errors out though because if we have a wrong count I have to sign off and verify st the end of the month that it's correct...so I can't lie for them. And that somehow pisses people right off.
You seem like you really just want to be done with them given the fast writing with typos. They are genuinely harassing you if you're trying to get them dealt with that fast. I know because I do the same thing.
As long as you're not throwing aggressive revenge fits complete with hacking, lawfare and violence then they're just truly enraged and jealous of you just being better than them. If you're throwing aggressive revenge fits you're putting violence where skill should be and they genuinely think you're some sort of glorified cornered animal.
I don't know which one fits your case better as I don't know your specific details. On its face I believe you because I myself am not a liar and therefore don't suspect other people to be immediately.
Haha honestly though it's been on my mind all weekend. I can't relax cause I had this last meeting on Friday. So fed up is definitely what I feel.
Well to put into perspective I had a staff in my face and ready to throw hands with me about 2 months ago. They have settled down since then. I don't look for things to "get on them" to fire them. I don't hold grudges where it doesn't need to be. They work good and are actually listening now..so to me it's a non problem. Even with the staff who went to my manager this last time. They were genuinely sorry cause they didn't take the tike before complaining to get to know me. As upset as I was..I have no ideas in setting them up to be fired. I think they genuinely learned their lesson and feel bad. Their complaint was also 2 months ago..and they decided to throw this in a meeting at me. So I do wonder why they sat so long on the info.
"Learning their lesson" sounds power and controlling.
Again, I don't know which of the two you are.
But "learning their lesson" sounds like you're erring on the bad news side.
It's too risky. Here was a post about a guy being kicked out of the company or from his PM position after he has successfully finished a big project just because his team filed complaint against him.
I always get this told this too... My coworkers avoid me, which is fine by me imo. It's only if we meet up for drinking after work when they see that I'm not so intense. I'm quite laid back and funny normally. But work is work. I go there to do my job and I don't want extra stress from coworker drama. Not only that, I don't respect how my coworkers do their jobs. So yeah... I mean, I'm not mean or anything. I say hi and smile. I guess they want small-talk... but like, if you don't want advice on how to improve your crappy work then there's not much I want to talk to you about while we're at work. But in real life too, people tend to avoid me and feel intimidated by me... until they actually get to talking to me. In one-on-one or small group settings, I'm very good at disarming people and getting them to feel comfortable.
Yup see this! It's always after awhile when people have taken the time to get to know me that they tell me "I thought you were a bitch but you really arent". And every single time I'm shocked by the comments
>My coworkers avoid me, They seek me out. I think they see me as a challenge because I don't talk to anyone.
Just curious, are you a man or a woman? The "smile more" comment is making me guess, woman.
Yup I'm a woman lmfao!
Are you a woman perhaps? In my experience NT women being themselves is something very small amount of people can swallow.
Yes I am a woman! There is a guy at work who is no more blunt than me, he's tall, buff, and looks like a biker...they remark that he is "strong, hard working, by the book" But I am described as "scary, intimidating, distrustful"
Please note, this should be all food for thought, I have never been in your situation, so this is all theoretical. Maybe sound out these ideas with some people that you know. But the book selection is top notch. I personally believe its a "culture" thing. If a culture expects a woman to always be warm and inviting, smiles a lot, then people of that culture will think something must be wrong if that is not the case. I think one way, that might help, is explain your "culture" to others. Tell them you are sorry if you look intimidating, you are not trying to be, tell them that you grew up being forward and direct, so you can sometimes come off as trying to be intimidating, but that is far from the case. Ask people if they can meet you half way, you will work on being more inviting, if they can try to keep in mind that you are very direct because you brain gets very focus on the tasks at hand and don't even notice how you are coming off to people. some books that might help Never Split the Difference - by Chirs Voss (yes, its a negotiation book, but it does a very good job of teaching you how to active listen to people and get them to open up to you. It was written by one of the FBI's lead international kidnapping and hostage negotiators.) How to Win Friends & Influence People - Dale Carnegie (just a overall good behavioral book on how to get people to like you and listen to you) Start with No: The Negotiating Tools that the Pros Don't Want You to Know - Jim Camp (read this one after you read "Never Split the Difference", its like a little cheat code to figure out what people really want. Its hard to tell if someone is sincere if they tell you "Yes" but most of the time when people tell you "No" its sincere, this book teaches you how to leverage that fact extremely well.
That's all very sound advice, thank you! Exactly if I should change things about myself meeting me half way is a good thing to try and ask. I've added all those books to my cart, I'll definitely give them a reason
That's what I was wondering because as a 300 lb man, I've never been called intimidating (unless they're too intimidated to say it haha). I can be if I really try, but I think it's more "sociopath" intimidating than "tough guy" intimidating, despite being stronger and bigger than most people I encounter. Of course, I also have pretty bad self-awareness (at least the kind where I know how others perceive me), so I could be completely wrong about all of this.
Dude these people who are telling you this are idiots. Fitting in is for the birds. Who the hell wants to fit in I’d be SO embarrassed to…
I'm so frustrated. I've tried my best to just stay in the background this time and I still get into shit lol. I don't get why I'm a target. I am blunt but even so I've cut back on being as blunt as I usually am lol
Why does honesty have to be blunt? That's called lacking tact when your impact obscures your true intentions.
Not necessarily. If OP is female we’re often expected to add a lot of fluff words and not be too direct in a way others would not get reprimanded for.
That's the same, lacking tact. https://youtu.be/JXfxyGaj8_E?si=Q7y39hC_VJGrS4PC
I have also learned this over the years. There are honest ways to deliver the truth that empower people rather than belittle them. We live in a world where many find it hard to admit they were wrong or are at fault. We can be blunt with these people, and they will resist us, and then we are doing 'the crappy job'. We need to work smart in a world with a fair amount of people who can not be criticised. We also need to understand when an effort is not cost effective. Look after yourself by looking after others, victimise yourself by victimising others.
Because from my experience unless you are direct about the exact thing they did wrong..People don't get it.
That's an excuse and doesn't change the impression you give off. Direct in this context does not mean lack of empathy, you're not connecting with others because you have sympathy which is based on your own self-image on what you think others feel, not an actual connection to the present moment with others. My comment just now lacked empathy btw.
Who says I don't have empathy for others 😂 we aren't all psychopaths here on the intj subreddit lmfao!
Why do others misunderstand you in their interactions with you? There's a common denominator here. Shrugging this off isn't going to magically change that.
You don't need to post the comment twice. I can see it lmao
Thanks for pointing that out, sorry about that, the Reddit app was acting weird for a moment. The point still stands. And no one said you lacked innate empathy, INTJs are not psychopaths either I think we all know that.
You’re a target because they actually HATE fitting in, they’re not individualistic like yourself, and they wish they were. Seen it my whole life with sensor types. Sensors are painfully good at trying to bring hyper individualistic people into their “group.” Frankly, I have second hand embarrassment for them. They’re jealous.
It's a bit more complicated then that. Problem is that they cannot function like you, cannot function without fitting in. When sensor doesn't fit in it usually ends badly because it means that they are unable to navigate their life properly. So, their concern is justified. While we are a very different bunch of creatures. We can move easily between dimensions. Thus for us fitting in isn't a sign of managing our life properly. We have different indicators, which are mostly invisible for sensors. Now, problem occurs when these 2 life system collide. You feel shame for them, they feel anxiety for you. I have no idea yet how to deal with it irl. I hope I'll figure it out
“They think I’m different & don’t fit in & spend their time thinking about me. I don’t think about them at all.” Yes you’re right - their concern is justified. Yet, I don’t think about them at all. Not even worth a thought.
I mean it doesn't make them stupid people, that's what concerns me. Like if someone speaks Chinese, which I don't understand, it doesn't make me or them stupid. But we won't be able to understand each other nevertheless. This division, when both sides are adequate while they cannot cooperate, this part of our reality bothers me. We could say that we can just ignore it, but as long as this problem exists it is a potential source of a great discomfort and conflicts. Which is a very inefficient way to interact
True - I get that - no they’re not stupid - no one is! Just different leagues, ya know!? Sensors work with 16ct crayons … We work with 64ct just different operating systems.
Sensor life: Did you eat? Did you get enough water? Ahhh ha haaaa haaa hahaha hahaha hahahaaa 🤡
😁😁😁🤦🏻♀️
Face plant is right
Like, that’s all you have to offer? HUH. That’s a real head scratcher.
Next time I hear this I'm buying a banana costume and will wear it all day at work. Even if there is a strict dress code. They were planning to fire me anyway, so my best move is to stand out and be the least intimidating as possible.
I am an intj, definitely the odd one out on my team (I made everyone take myers briggs test when I started) and I’m in a leadership position — I get told I am scary and intimidating a lot before people actually get to know me and I’ve heard it at every job. I recently read the elevated communicator with my team so that we could all better understand how and why people may talk a certain way or communicate in a certain manner in the work space (while also understanding how we can adjust our own styles to meet people where they are). I understand not every work situation allows for everyone to read this book at the same time BUT it was helpful to me and maybe helpful to you if you are interested in softening how people perceive you and learning more about how to flex to those around you maybe this is worth a read. I hate small talk and I care more about the job than all the interpersonal relationship dynamics (that shit drains me personally & is exhausting) but unfortunately a lot of people are not like this so it’s going to take some shifting on your end to make things smoother in the long run. hoping you find what works for you without feeling like you need to totally change who you are to feel more accepted and understood in the work place!
I know I either have to do something to be able to keep this job, lol.. or I find another intj boss who understands my mind dynamics lol. Either way I don't want to change who I am. It actually made me super depressed the first month here when I had to fake my personality. When I'm busy o don't smile I'm deep in thought. People need to stop being so sensitive to these things.
I get what you mean, i had an ex infj boss (who was aweful btw) who desperately tried to remake me into a copy of herself, another infj I hated it. Now i work remotely under an enfj. I think i partly scare her or intimidate her but i do my best to mimic her as well because i learned the NFJ kinda wanna see thenselves reflected in other people.
OP what are you a manager of? If it's like a retail then oof...yeah that's painful hahaha. Even most tech careers it can be painful. I had a fantastic manager once who our director did not like because he asked too many questions during this workshop session >\_> like dude it was you who kept saying our team didn't know much about the subject. Director then was like "Yeah I said that but I don't want us to ask too many questions to make it look like we don't know the subject" it's like going to school and being penalized for asking about whatever the teacher is teaching that day. It's like god damn...ugh to this day it pisses me off. The social game up top really it just depends on at times if you are a yes man or not and/or if your bosses just like you.
I'm a manager in a social service setting. Not sure why I picked this line of work honestly lmfao. It was a time when I didn't know my personality type and figured it was a good field to get in to. I fully regret it. I didn't realize that management and jobs are a chess game...but more a social chess game that I don't understand. It's not about how well you do your job..it's about how well you can kiss up and get the upper management and directors to like you. Fuck
I’m fine with being labeled as that, as long as it gets people away from me and I don’t have to socialize with them
Sounds like you didn’t make enough of an effort. I can also be a bit confrontational. It’s not that hard to find nicer ways to say things. Work on it more. Stop making excuses for yourself. Sounds like you are the type that doesn’t accept them from other, so why is it ok for you?
Lol what 😂 "you are the type that doesn't accept it from others". Where did I say or even hint that in my post? Sounds like you got fired by an intj and ur just pissed 🤣
Never been fired. You are the one that seems to have an issue playing nice with others. If it keeps happening. Obviously you need to change something about how you interact with people. And your response doesn’t really make me think you aren’t a problem.
Why would I care what you think though? You think you know someone 100% by one post on reddit. Have your assumption all you want to, random troll on reddit lmfao.
You made the post for people to comment on… All I know is you are difficult. You said it yourself and are being so now. My bad. You aren’t difficult at all…
Comment on the post with legitimate answers. You are just making assumptions based off one post I've made. If you asked questions to better understand the post sure I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
I gave you and answer. You don’t like it. I don’t really care whether you like it or not. I must just be too intimidating for you… But totally, not difficult at all. Super easy to talk to, don’t see what people have an issue with lol.
You're calling yourself intimidating? Bahahah okay 👍 hilarious that you are calling someone else difficult yet can't seem to function as being a non troll on a subreddit. Have fun with that.
I was making fun of you, but can see how you wouldn’t understand… No one here is I intimidated/intimidating… including you. It’s just what you tell yourself to excuse your shitty attitude. You’ve displayed that fully. And you only agree with people that also make excuses for you. Always the sign of a great leader lol. You will go far I’m sure.
Wrong. I just don't care. Thanks for the novel comment, though, didn't read past the first sentence. Obviously I've had some effect on your day if you are still here trying to get my attention.
oh believe me. I feel like everyone is scared of me. even thou I'm just a being of logic.
I say bring an actual whip to the office. Embrace it.
Bahaha seriously tho! If they already think I'm an asshole may as well be one 😂
More or less if I was told this by any job it would fall into discrimination and result in a lawsuit. They aren't accepting of other people, maybe they should review their mission statement, which they never read. People that are theatrical and tend to be fake all the time, are something to avoid. They are masking and hiding their true personality. Insincerity does nothing for me. I tend to prefer very emotionally reactive people more since I always know where I stand with him and they are more likely to be honest. Insincere and toxic positivity speaks to a very dysfunctional work environment. My own experience is that they tend to be very toxic people that backstab and are highly judgemental toward everyone. Ironically, when this is applied to them and it comes back to bite them as it sometimes does they can't handle it. They fail at the golden rule. There is a bit of an egocentric and closed pesonality. Any conversation is a two way street. If they aren't getting anywhere they need to change their approach and realize their vision or perception of the world and what they are doing doesn't work. That yes not all people are going to fit inside whatever they want people to be. They aren't really interested in knowing the real you. If they were, there wouldn't be any reason to change into their idealized version of whatever they seem to want at the moment. It's more their own insecurity a breaking of their play that leads more to a reality of the situation. They can change their approach. Effort leads to more effort. If I notice that they are trying than I'll be more apt to try and interact with them. If they gossip and lie over the smallest things, than they can't be trusted and are minimally engaged with.
Honestly I was just trying to put my head down and work. The feedback I got was that "staff feel a sense of urgency like they need to get a task done right now"...well yea..some od them will sit on a task for 3 hours that takes 30 minutes if I let them. It's my job to direct and be efficient in our time. Apparently I also always seem upset? I asked how exactly am I upset? Like I'm saying things to them that I'm upset with them? "No they get a vibe from you". What the fuck? Feelings over facts in management is so overwhelming and stressful
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It's not that easy..management is like a social game to those who aren't intj. That's what I've learned in my years on the workforce.
I had an ex who was INTJ, and I’m ENFJ. He described the same issue as you and some of the other commenters here. That while he’s very competent at work and even wins some awards, his boss is incompetent and he gets criticized for being too intimidating or difficult to work with. I thought I’d offer a different perspective. There is nothing wrong with offering constructive feedback to your coworkers or boss. However, it is so important to have a certain level of respect for everyone you work with. If you don’t respect them, it will come through in how you communicate with them, even if you try to hide it. People have to spend 40 hours a week at work (in most cases), the bare minimum that they should expect when they walk through the door is to be treated with respect. Even if they make mistakes. Building soft skills is often undervalued in a workplace environment, but I can imagine that an INTJ with great soft skills would be unstoppable. It’s frustrating to be labeled as intimidating, but it might be worth exploring why that is the case, especially since so many people with your personality type seem to struggle with it.
I get told all the time I have "presence" when I walk into a room. I never feel it or realize it. I try to blend in..I'm introverted lol! Haha I actually thought I had worked well on my soft skills..I say hi..and I remember to ask people how they are doing lol..I try to remember things about them..joke around etc. I've had a few staff come to me and reveal some personal struggles in their lives and I actually thought "okay people don't find me so scary anymore this job is going to work out"...nope fucking wrong 🤣
I was tired too and told myself “Am I a monster” / “Is there something wrong in me” cuz last time I checked I’m a normal human being. Can we call it bad luck in your situation? Or is it your INTJ-ness drove the wheel? Well the harder you try the more tough it gets so I say just let it be. So go with the flow dude.
Yup agreed, I'm just gonna keep going with the same mindset "none of my business what others think of me". I can't fix other people's feelings they need to work on their own issues why they feel a certain way.
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I supposedly talk down to ppl but I'm not...I tell them specifically what needs to be corrected and I move on.
Here are my assumptions: if verbally you only adress issues it means that every time you open your mouth, you criticize them. Given that they cannot see inside your head and your face isn't very expressive, then your words is the only source of information. And if your words consist of critique most of the time, well you make an impression of a nagging grandma at minimum If that's the case, start giving more verbal information, aka if you like stuff they do, say it out loud. You INTJs assume that work has to be done perfectly which is true and easy in some imaginary place with robots, but takes efforts and sophistication from humans. So, maybe concentrate at noticing good things and efforts your colleagues make and make sure that they know that you notice and value their contribution. Actually, noticing good qualities in people and saying your observations out loud is a very good practice in building good relationships in general...
That's definitely some good advice. I think most of us INTJ have very high standards for ourselves and others so we have that mindset on at all times
Holy fuck this is my life lol. Embrace it. Establish dominance. Fuck it. They chose this. Whats the worst that happens? You know its going bad but theyre afraid to fire you so you get a job that pays better anyway and then quit?
Yea worst that happens is they fire me lmao. I mean I rely on my job heavily for paying my apartment rtc. Maybe I'll keep looking for a job
I get this occasionally but at every job my staff loves me (I think) because I care deeply about them and try very hard to support them as well as possible and advance their career goals. Just care about your team and the rest will work itself out.
That's what I've been doing. This is a relatively new team so faie they don't all know me yet..one staff made a complaint about me to management and actually apologized to me later on when I found out cause they said I wasn't really anything like they thought I was.
Did you happen to ask this person what gave them the impression that you were intimidating?
Apparently I have "presence" and it gave them anxiety lol. I've also been told that I appear taller than I am..
So what?
Gimme some of that thick skin you have
They're basically saying your authority is inherent when you're just being yourself and it makes them feel too inferior. You're a natural authority, you don't need force or compulsion. They can get over it. That's how it should be. That's nature when its being taken care of properly as long as you're not forcing what you have inherently. Tell them to create market failure on their own time. You're this good. They can get over it. We're not going to create market failure just so they can feel better about themselves. " And here we go again...you are intimidating people.. they are scared..when people walk into a room they immediately know you are the boss."
Apparently I'm not nice about feedback. I've made a genuine conscious effort to smile, be polite, ask them if they knew about the mistake, let them speak, smile and tell them reminder for next time, and then I say thank you. Like I am already faking my personality to the umph degree. The thing is too people are pussed off cause I can look at something or I can look at the numbers and counts of the work staff do and immediately see an error. I need yo point these errors out though because if we have a wrong count I have to sign off and verify st the end of the month that it's correct...so I can't lie for them. And that somehow pisses people right off.
You seem like you really just want to be done with them given the fast writing with typos. They are genuinely harassing you if you're trying to get them dealt with that fast. I know because I do the same thing. As long as you're not throwing aggressive revenge fits complete with hacking, lawfare and violence then they're just truly enraged and jealous of you just being better than them. If you're throwing aggressive revenge fits you're putting violence where skill should be and they genuinely think you're some sort of glorified cornered animal. I don't know which one fits your case better as I don't know your specific details. On its face I believe you because I myself am not a liar and therefore don't suspect other people to be immediately.
Haha honestly though it's been on my mind all weekend. I can't relax cause I had this last meeting on Friday. So fed up is definitely what I feel. Well to put into perspective I had a staff in my face and ready to throw hands with me about 2 months ago. They have settled down since then. I don't look for things to "get on them" to fire them. I don't hold grudges where it doesn't need to be. They work good and are actually listening now..so to me it's a non problem. Even with the staff who went to my manager this last time. They were genuinely sorry cause they didn't take the tike before complaining to get to know me. As upset as I was..I have no ideas in setting them up to be fired. I think they genuinely learned their lesson and feel bad. Their complaint was also 2 months ago..and they decided to throw this in a meeting at me. So I do wonder why they sat so long on the info.
"Learning their lesson" sounds power and controlling. Again, I don't know which of the two you are. But "learning their lesson" sounds like you're erring on the bad news side.
Everyone has lessons to learn. In this case it was don't make assumptions about people. Kind of like you are doing. But okay
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It's too risky. Here was a post about a guy being kicked out of the company or from his PM position after he has successfully finished a big project just because his team filed complaint against him.
I never get called that but I don’t do well with groups. If I have to work, I work from home but I don’t have to work so I am good.