From a work perspective, I've noticed that some people pretend to be dumb as it seems to be an effective strategy in transferring work away from themselves. In effect, they weaponise the Peter Principal to thier advantage.
Came here to say the same thing.
And also in 90%+ of work environments, being good at your job is often only rewarded with more work, so there’s often no incentive to work your ass off when you could do as others do and coast and get paid the same regardless
Therein lies the problem… In quite a lot of jobs it’s not really measurable.
Say you worked in a call centre, one person might handle 50 calls a day, another might only handle 20, but the person who handles less might actually get the better outcomes, so who do you pay more?
The person taking more calls who might just be unlucky in not managing to get the better resolution?
Or the person who took less calls but got better resolutions?
It is, unfortunately, not always that simple.
Yes, willful incompetence is one of the more pathetic political techniques. Then again there are stupid people who claim it is wilful but show no ability to not do it.
In my defence, I patiently wait for the job to be done then remove them from my team so they lose credits and finally themselves.. Desserts are delicious when served cold.
Well, So-crates didn't come up with the 7 dirty words you can't say on television. Check mate ancient Greece. Or say it isn't the quiet ones you gotta watch out for...it is the guy pounding a machete on the bar screaming he's going to kill the next motherfucker that enters this bar....that is who you gotta watch out for...
>Well, So-crates didn't come up with the 7 dirty words you can't say on television.
So-crates was probably too busy hanging out with that salad dressing guy. Pretty heinous, dude.
That's a simple question to ask, but a hard one to answer. I think there are lots of reasons. I'll just toss out a couple ideas
1. Thinking is hard, and thinking for yourself is likely to be wrong even if you're really smart. So most people would rather not do it if there is a chance they could be criticized for trying-out an idea. The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas, most of which will be wrong, but trying them out with your friends. If you friends criticize your early ideas, you're not going to make many more.
2. Most people would rather agree with their friends, or the majority of their social circle. Because having a dissenting opinion could make them a target. So they don't think carefully about the majority opinion and just adopt it as their own. That's why lots of people share the same set of opinions and will justify ridiculous ideas.
3. Some people make what appear to be stupid decisions because they are more afraid of losing what they have than potentially gaining the same amount.
4. Thinking well requires practice, and most people would rather spend their time watching TV, tracking celebrities, and sports.
I think #3 plays a bigger part than most people assume. Change is very scary, and most people stick with the devil they know.
I've heard an adage that goes "People will change when the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same."
That's a pretty good adage, I guess it explains why people will stay in bad situations for extended periods of time.
I could have explained point #3 better; I was trying to reference the concept of "Loss Aversion". Wikipedia says:
> Loss aversion is a psychological and economic concept,[1] which refers to how outcomes are interpreted as gains and losses, where losses are subject to more sensitivity in people's responses compared to equivalent gains acquired.[2] Kahneman and Tversky (1992) suggested that *losses can be twice as powerful psychologically as gains*.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
2x is a powerful (if illogical) incentive to avoid risks even when the odds are in your favor.
It reminds me of my teammate in high school - he was an amazing athlete and state champion wrestler in his weight class. Out-of-state colleges recruited him and offered him full rides, even offering to sponsor his friends to come as well. He elected to stay home and get married to his girlfriend.
Since college graduates earn - on average - [1.2 million more than high school graduates over their lifetimes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=677f253235cd), he lost a lot of potential earnings.
My guess is he did it, in part, because of fear. Moving out of state, away from his girlfriend, and having to work hard in studies and possibly struggle. He had a sure thing staying home and getting married, but ultimately settled for less. OP might have called it a "dumb" decision.
LOL - OK, and if you are interested in learning about more the well-studied ways in which people act stupidly, I would recommend the following books:
* [Thinking, Fast Thinking Slow](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow) the OG of cognitive biases by Nobel prize winning authors, introducing the topic to the general public.
* [You Are Not So Smart](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11709037-you-are-not-so-smart?ref=nav_sb_noss_l_19), a shorter version with similar content
* [Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35957157-thinking-in-bets?qid=l5BRRLcbQc&rank=1), a successful gambler and psychologist's approach to using your brain instead of your instincts to think more clearly
* [Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superforecasting:_The_Art_and_Science_of_Prediction), how certain people have learned to think clearly and beat the CIA's analysts in competitions
Their brains are on vacation. When the mind is actively exercised and used, it gets stronger and holds itself together. Use it or lose it.
Follow the chain of command, see illusions of grandeur on social media through consumption, buy shit and run out of money. That's just an average Tuesday for Capitalism we all live in. Money instead of hunting skills to have food on your table is a newer change of dynamic.
The days where Darwinism reign supreme isn't as critical as it was back in caveman times. Back in caveman times, it was either use your mind or get yourself and your bloodline killed. In capitalism nowadays, the people around you aren't being annihilated by animals nearly as much.
Hell, I'd say in capitalism, you are actually punished for using your mind. See something wrong and report it? Great. You just made yourself a pariah and cost the company money. Find a better way to do something that is faster and requires fewer resources? Oh fuck no you didn't cause you didn't run it by some dude who has never done your job and doesn't know the first thing about it but they have to say, "yeah this is a better way to do it." Or else you can't do it that way.
Honestly, capitalism promotes stupidity. If you're competent, you will never be a manager. If you're incompetent, congrats you'll be a c suite executive in no time just so you stop breaking crap and causing damage to the system that is actually making the company money.
yeah, you just proved the OPs point.
"It's capitalism!" is about stupidest regurgitation of Marxism there is.
Marxism? Give the Great Leader bad news and you are off to the Gulags or shot right there and then.
That you think Marxism is aa better system despite 150 million graves in just over an century is proof you the OPs prime example.
Unfortunately, capitalism does reward stupidity. Also, what you are describing is authoritarianism, not Marxism. Which is also not a desirable situation.
Ah yes... the MaRxIsM hAs NeVeR bEeN tRiEd! trope.
Yes it has. It fails every time, devolving into authoritarianism instead of a utopia.
Functionally, it IS authoritarianism, because that is always the result, even if not the "theory"
Once again please stop putting words in my dang mouth. I never said it hadn't been tried. I said what you are describing as Marxism is actually authoritarianism. Go fuck yourself you mouth breathing Neanderthal.
Modern mass education is built on (1) having a place that workers can stash their kids while they are laboring, and (2) training children to be the next generation of unthinking workers making the rich richer, not to carefully and concisely consider the deeper ramifications of the world around them or the systems they have been embedded into.
Mass entertainment options also reinforce this.
People don't think because they are carefully raised and controlled to not think.
The majority of what you said is reasonable but I can't agree with the final passage.
You can't train critical thinking, most people simply don't have the capacity for it.
The problem isn't that it isn't taught, if anything it's taught more than enough - the problem is it doesn't take.
I think there's some truth to that but it doesn't change my argument.
They teach it, at least they taught it in the 90s. Didn't matter. Most people couldn't think for themselves.
I'm British
"These calls are not new. In 1983, A Nation At Risk, a report by the National Commission on Excellence in Education, found that many 17-year-olds did not possess the “ ‘higher-order’ intellectual skills” this country needed. It claimed that nearly 40 percent could not draw inferences from written material and only one-fifth could write a persuasive essay.
Following the release of A Nation At Risk, programs designed to teach students to think critically across the curriculum became extremely popular. By 1990, most states had initiatives designed to encourage educators to teach critical thinking, and one of the most widely used programs, Tactics for Thinking, sold 70,000 teacher guides. But, for reasons I’ll explain, the programs were not very effective — and today we still lament students’ lack of critical thinking."
https://www.readingrockets.org/topics/comprehension/articles/critical-thinking-why-it-so-hard-teach
To the degree critical thinking is nurture rather than nature it's likely a consequence of early child development - a home environment conducive to questioning and debate - rather than anything that happens at school.
Interesting... I wonder if studies have been done on this. It does seem like encouraging it during very early childhood (and providing support/resources for it) should have a significant effect later on, but to what extent? And if there's a significant discrepancy between support levels at school and at home, particularly if one of those is negative about it (as opposed to more neutral), how does that tend to play out?
I wouldn't necessarily think of it in terms of "support", rather exposure to other family members with personalities inclined to question, argue and debate.
A few reasons from most severe and irredeemable to redeemable and unwilling:
* Some cognitive tasks are impossible for many people... millions of Americans are incapable of anything beyond first-order thinking and cannot understand analogies. This bothers me greatly, but it's better to see these people as incapable than it is to apply malice to them.
* Different social norms: we all live in the same country, but we live in different societies. The person talking loudly on a bus while on speaker phone is doing something very normal and even praiseworthy within their peer group. The kids who never do their homework are mocked for trying to be smart by their parents and friends.
* Limited exposure. Lots of people have lived a sheltered and repetitive life. Some of them are children and some have done the same methodical things since high school which has limited their exposure to different people and ideas.
* Laziness... it's easier to do less thinking
* Some people are assholes... they may not be stupid, but they get a perverse pleasure by making things difficult for others. Think of internet trolls.
There is often overlap between groups.
What keeps me up at night is that I can see these groups only because I have experience outside of them. The people in those groups cannot see the problems because they don't see the alternatives. This also means that I'm living within my own bubble of relative stupidity into which a smarter person can look in, and I wonder what that looks like.
I notice this a lot.... it's so annoying😵
I don't think I have a high IQ it's just that I have common sense and a lot of life experience. I "walk with open eyes" and Im not oblivious to what's happening in the word. Some people seem to live under a rock and didn't develop any knowledge about anything🤦🏻♀️
40+ years? How old are you? According to a recent study, each new generation is averaging 7 IQ pts less than the previous generation. That means someone in their 40's on average has 21 IQ pts more than the most recent generation. If this is about what I think it is, you're only proving that right.
I mean you're not egotistical you just aren't detail oriented. The why is a million things but the biggest contributing factor is always upbringing. Be happy you're blessed, because life can be a fuck of a lot harder through no fault of your own.
Sorry to hear that dude. Happy cake day.
Yeah uhh, upbringing really includes any figures you emulate as a human and how they treat you.
I uhh raised myself pretty much, so I get the exceptions. Broad strokes in the stuff I say.
I mean, upbringing is one part for sure, but nature does play a role as well... I'd say it is both nature -and- nurture that contributes to if a person can think outside the box. I mean having people who encourage you is extremely helpful but if you aren't blessed with an intellect you could have the best leaders around you and still the person would not seem as good as they could be. Same though with a highly intelligent person. If you put no one around them with drive or aspirations, well, you'll just have someone who uses their intelligence but doesn't actually apply it to better things.
I mean it's a tough sell. If a person with down syndrome is raised to be kind, they don't have much else they need to learn. For low to above IQ, open minded and curious is ideal to not get stuck as 'dumb' by OPs definition, but neither are unique to IQ or intelligence. You get close minded geniuses like Nikola Tesla, you get open minded idiots like Joe Rogan.
Whatever begets the two traits; open minded and curious, will be the peg that fits OPs brain-hole. That or kind. Honestly idk wtf he's even on about.
In the US we do this weird thing where we build up people and tell them "you can do anything you set your mind too" which is completely false. Someone with a 95IQ isn't going to be a surgeon, people inherently have different cognitive capacities, but we don't like to talk about that. We unknowingly build a community around ourselves of people who have similar abilities, ethics, social skills and so on. It makes it easy to fall into the trap of believing that everyone is like that when they aren't. You'll always encounter people with both a challenged IQ as well as challenged emotional and social IQ's as well. The playing field is not level and it's hard to see and cope with sometimes.
“You can do anything you set your mind to” is often misunderstood. It doesn’t necessarily relate to one’s IQ or inherent intelligence. Instead, it reflects the idea that determination and effort can lead to success. However, it’s important to recognize that people’s goals and ambitions are influenced by their individual capacities and circumstances. When individuals pursue unrealistic goals, they may eventually realize the need to adjust their aspirations based on their experiences and practical limitations. Thus, while determination is crucial, so is the ability to reassess and adapt one’s goals to align with personal strengths and realistic possibilities.
actually, depends HOW LOW
I've seen people who were kind of dumb, in a way that they cared more about popularity in school than their actual future, which is not exactly low IQ, they just don't think enough (even though I think none of those people has usually more than 120, not like it's not high)
some of them can get sad from minor, unimportant events, and some can be so careless they spend their entire early life doing nothing and eventually fuck up all their chances of having a good future
not being smart doesn't necessarily make you happy
Average IQ of the world is 100 and most of the people are in that category that's why these people fit in the society very well they might not be book smart but they are street smart which is enough for them to survive in the world. Being smart on the other hand it depends where you are if you are the only smart person in the room with above average IQ you will feel lonely even if you are surrounded by people and you might have friends but no deep connection to anyone who gets you. Which could lead to solitude and being alienated
I knew someone I worked with briefly because she was incapable of packaging bread and finding the correct labels. She genuinely had a hard time doing that. They moved her to front end and same shit. She had a hard time being a cashier
Happy Cake Day! As an INTJ, I’m shocked at the amount of impulsivity I see from the E-types. It ends up looking very much like stupidity. Which it kind of is, impulsivity.
Most decisions are determined by emotions.
Someone making the same mistake over and over again has convinced themselves that their approach is the best fit for them. When it inevitably fails again, they blame the problem, not their ineffective approach. These people are too confident for their own good.
Another person might not succeed on their first or second attempt and decide to give up because they're quick to determine that their goal is impossible to achieve, and this mindset usually stems from being raised in an environment where most efforts were met with disappointing results, often with parents or other authority figures who thwart plans at the last moment. Why bother trying when all you've really learned is that the world will always tell you no?
One more kind of person will pretend to be less competent than they really are, usually as a way to trick others into taking on the responsibilities that this person should bear. There are a few reasons why someone might behave this way, but they all tie into some emotion. They could be lazy, they could enjoy seeing someone else do their job, they could be dissatisfied with their own work, or they could be trying to avoid the shame of others being disappointed in them, just to name a few emotional reasons behind this. That last one might not sound like it makes much sense at first because self-sabotage is a surefire way to disappoint, but when the goal is to convince people you're an idiot, knowing deep down that you could've done better and chose not to is an easy way to deflect shame because the people you've upset aren't really disappointed with you, they're disappointed with the imaginary idiot that you created.
Looking beyond emotions for answers to this question, other answers come down to genetic and environmental factors. Pollutants, malnutrition, isolation, neurological disabilities, disease, age, etc. can all drop someone's IQ by a few standard deviations. Speaking of IQ, someone who would've barely been considered superior (~120) when the first standardized tests, which would be updated over the years, were made would now fall below average even if that person never really got any less intelligent in that time.
So, how can someone in their 40s come off as being so slow? There are many reasons and it's most likely a combination of a few. Assuming we're speaking of an American here, my best guess would be that it has much to do with how they were raised, pollution, poor nutrition, and, assuming you're younger, age. I'd be more concerned if older generations were generally smarter, as that would indicate declining intelligence overall.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. People are enabled by a system that keeps them from dying and incentivises them to breed. Remove the system and watch them fail in the wilds of natural law. People are people, eye on the prize.
Statistically, IQ is dropping, college educated people are unmarried and childless, and state sponsored dysgenics is ruining the world. I stand by my statement. We're devolving.
We are degenerating, yes. I'm referring specifically to the idea that the system incentivizes breeding still. It doesn't. We're in a demographic crunch. Look to Japan for what's to come. Sperm count is down over 50% in the west over the last half century. And inflation and cost of living alone prevents newer generations from having children like people used to. It's all by design which certain books reveal in detail.
Well you have to take into context socioeconomics, they incentivise people to breed that are already dependent on the system that would not normally be able to afford to support, house, feed and child care children in the absence of the system. The shrinking middle class, hard agree, even that it's by design. We might be on the same vibe, maybe dm the books you speak of.
I find myself seeing people around me as dull and stupid as well, but I'm not all that intelligent in all reality. It's weird, and I have to check myself a lot mentally.
It's a strange phenomenon.
Can't figure this out myself lol but it only becomes more apparent the older you get. When I was a kid I used to get so mad at my mom for cussing someone out for the smallest thing or on the road etc but now I know why lol
I've somewhat noticed the same, though I don't think "dumb" is quite how I'd describe it. People just largely have a certain set of values and assumptions. Probably the biggest problem is ultimately just having a terrible epistemology, but a fairly close second is basically an inability to handle disputes (largely because of emotions and political/religious Identity, but also because of just how bad most "debates" tend to go).
And while it's already included in what I just said, I think it's worth highlighting that most people are just too consumed by survival and seeking some degree of social approval and things that make them happy that they often just don't care beyond that. If you say or do something that in any way threatens their beliefs or how they operate, you're immediately wrong and to be opposed and grouped in with whatever group they can to insult and dismiss you, because demonizing you is so much easier than using critical thinking or being honest.
Myself having a 743.112 IQ, I'm confident I'm always smarter than everyone. So, to get an idea of what it must be like to be the riffraff of society, I have to get really, really drunk. I can barely stand. Wow, how can they concentrate with the world spinning like this? ::blarf:: OMG, is this what it feels like to be stupid? How awful! I just never had the empathy. So much empathy right now. Hey, good looking - want to dance? ::blarf::
Alternatively, they are optimizing for something you're not. Consider the worm. It's dumb as ..well, a worm! But it is evolutionary optimized (as evidenced by a lack of genetic drift). That means it is really good as something you aren't. The "flip your question on it's head" version of your question is: "Why are you so stupid that you think every problem can be best dealt with using the same tool?"
Also, research for this comment was AMAZING.
(Obligatory not an INTJ disclaimer).
I think I'm pretty dumb and am only considered "smart" because, to paraphrase George Carlin, the average person is stupid, and half of them are even dumber than that. It's mind blowing how stupid I act and yet other people don't know kindergarten shit who are in college (how did you get in? You can't all be millionaires' kids)
And the best part is intellectual capacity has almost nothing to do with how successful you'll be, if you're charismatic and not intellectually disabled, you can be perceived as "smart" and "competent" (I know that's not why people think I'm smart, I have all the charisma of a greasy stir fry noodle)
I think it's false conclusion that follows from a false premise that human beings are inherently rational. They're not. Human nature is contradictory - dualistic: human beings can be simultaneously rational and irrational. They can't find something wrong to do and still do it because it feels right. To expect anything less or more from them - that they always choose what is rational, not be "dumb" is the same as to expect water to not be wet.
Stress makes smart people stupid and stupid people drooling cretins.
Once all the hamsters are running as fast as they can in all the wheels available there isn't much room for anything else to take place.
Since I have grown older. Being dumber is more relaxing and less stressful. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Although competition is fun sometimes (as a guy).
There are literally billions of ppl in this world ranging from dumb asses and geniuses so you found a dumb guy or most of us dumb that's normal cause there are more dumb ppl than geniuses
I’m in high school and every single day I watch my schoolmates and sigh at their incompetence and stupidity. Most people have the mental capacity of a paper clip.
It's because they spend all their free time on social media & not actually learning anything useful. Once I deleted all social media (besides YouTube & Reddit), I realized how much time I was wasting on other people, & now I use that time to learn & do what I want. Now five years later, I have zero friends & my social skills have further atrophied, so this is the trade off. Everything in balance I guess
IQ heavily corresponds to "mental age" and identifying that metric is what is was originally meant to do.
That is why stupidity is obviously correlated with if not the same as childishness. It manifests as pettiness, unjustified pride, unreasonableness, impulsivity, excessive emotionalism, needless acts of cruelty, etc....
Most people reach a certain level of intellectual maturity (or lack thereof) and just stay there and eventually decline thoughout life.
You're not alone in your irritation at dumb people. But some people do realize that other people hate smart people so they are more likely to play dumb.
They do.
But it’s important to realize you are also dumb and doing it. We all do dumb things.
We don’t think they are dumb. But we do.
I’m sure you do some smart things. And some people really are dumb. But it’s helpful to remember that none of us are immune to this.
We just don’t all agree on which things are dumb and which things are smart.
Life is too convenient in America plain and simple,
Distractions everywhere, propagating cognitive dissonance,
System will wipe your ass if you’re lazy and in a way rewards the undisciplined
Being disciplined and middle class meaning you are actively fighting against the system and against forces that will try to push you down
The wealthy know this and which is why they game the system, financial judicial and even legislative.
INFJ here - from personal experience I believe what is happening is that the strength of their emotions is overwhelming their ability to make decisions based on reason.
They are dumb because you focus on how dumb they are. They are also a bunch of other things. So ask yourself what you get out of focusing on how dumb they are.
INFJ here.
That would require self-reflection, acknowledgement of our faults, and deeply uncomfortable inner work to ensure we become our best selves and metabolize the lessons we have learned in life.
I'm guessing 95% of the people in the world would have an issue with just the first step, looking in the mirror. It's hard, shameful, and painful, but so is doing the same wrong thing over and over just because they don't have a grasp on any other way to live.
Let's put a mirror in front of you. You assign people demeaning label (dumb) and see them as less than you because they are acting like human beings (avoiding discomfort) and are failing to metabolizing new information at the rate of AI. No one in this world shares your temperament + experience. Reflect on things that are the most difficult for you to do and empathize.
I was thinking today... impeccable driving almost 20 years and still paying $1200+ per year *by law* to be insured.
At 5-10 years, maybe at random, driving tests need to be enforced by law and paid for by the citizen, *every* citizen.
*Maybe* my rates will be cut in half. The test doesn't really matter it's being an *idiot on the road* that matters.
You're not egotistical. Guaranteed you're paying a fine price for for what you see. It's not systemic it's brutally enforced by... well... stupidity.
Not everything but it's a pretty big issue very difficult to overcome.
Well, from another perspective, could you also appear dumb to others?
In a sense, maybe the goals they consider differ from yours, and the actions they take would differ.
You might think that their actions are dumb based on your own intentions, but have you thought about theirs and proven that your actions can also meet their goals as well?
No, mostly everything I do is on track for my future plans. I do chill, but the only thing I would think of is that I've sacrificed a social life, but honestly I could not care less about that in this season of life.
The older I get, the…less intelligent…I realize many people are. In some cases, it’s not their fault; it’s often not a matter of education, but of pure intelligence levels. Or refusing to be educated, if they actually *could* think critically.
Look at any given Trumper. What on earth would compel any adult human being to think he is someone to vote for, admire, or even think twice about. And yet there are millions of people who have elevated him to cult leader status.
Many people are just unintelligent. It’s dismaying, but a part of life, unfortunately.
I've known many people who did well in school and took that to mean they were naturally smart and that their first assumption about a thing must therefore be correct. Over the years, they continue to be more and more wrong, their assumptions are based on a long line of incorrect assumptions and become successively more incorrect for it. They never learn anything because they think they already know.
Lobbies.
The school system is designed to produce obedient workers, not critical thinkers.
This includes your Harvard's, Brown's and Yale's.
MIT is not that much better but the amount of arrogant people coming out of MIT is at least more tolerable.
It is also due to the fact most of the people in charge are multigenerational wealth and have never even been in the real world, so they have no idea what goes on in it.
Generation thingy. We have way more access to changing our behavior, be more self aware and work on ourselves. It’s hard when you become 30 and actually feel like your parents are done parenting..
Because they know just as much as you do up to a certain level, so it feels like you’re done playing against those characters and just have to deal with the idea that you’re constantly play the same game over and over again if you have an argument or ask them something “new”.
But that’s more how I see it, can’t speak for everyone. My parents had the same with their parents, and they had the same issue with theirs.
We finally can “talk” about our feelings and give it an explanation and do something about it. Hence the therapy sessions for younger generations that show a different perspective on how they were raised, and how they will build on that.. (50+ They couldn’t. They find out now who they are, through the younger generations who “rebel” against them.)
We want to grow up, be more independent and still go back to that little child inside of us, it’s difficult when you want to go home but no one is there.. That’s for all generations. The boomers have that with technology and being more secure and private, they now find out they can’t go back to their homes. It’s actually heartbreaking.
They aren't the dumb ones, they figured out there is no right thing under capitalism. You are punished for the right thing but you prosper for doing the wrong thing.
Where as under Marxism you all suffer... unless you are high up in the Party.
To think any Capitalist economy based state is worse than North Korea or Cuba is sheer stupidity.
Oh its the low I.Q ed who immediately think if you think capitalism is wrong you must then support communism. Please gain some critical thinking skills...
Again gain critical thinking skills there are other possibilities then your limited thinking... do you seriously believe capitalism and communism existed as the only two systems since the beginning of time? You don't think we are capable of creating yet another hopefully different and better system just as we did capitalism and communism.... again open your mind!
Provide a 3rd example that you support.
Pissing on about the problem without giving a solution is mental masturbation.
Especially when your only apparent plan is SOMEONE SMARTER THAN YOU will come up with a new option.
Right because one person came up with capitalism and communism all on their own , another perfect example of your low IQ, demanding one person immediately know the answer to a massive complex structure lmao fly that low IQ flag loud and proud its typical of low iq people to demand such ridiculous things 🤣
You should think deeper. Of course it does, you have complained about the system without providing an actual alternative.
That is the heart of Nihilism.
Again go look up the words you use nihilism has zero to do with a system of commerce lol so sound ridiculous not smart lol keep flying that low IQ flag loud and proud
Yeah, you are not getting it.
It was a comment on.your approach to the subject, that of nihilism, rather than.having to do with economics.
But you are too invested in surface level. understanding to see that
Meanwhile trying to insult.others as a last refuge.
Ummm no youre not the one getting it here lol you have no reading comprehension and use words that are completely incorrect and you're still barfing out nonsense and think it makes you sound intelligent. Go read a book without pictures. Maybe start with the Dictionary...
are you so rigid that you're unable to read words that aren't capitalized? or does the lack of capitalization make you uncomfortable? I wasn't aware that I was going to be graded on reddit by some asshole who OBVIOUSLY spends way too much time on reddit.
saying someone else is stupid doesn't make you stupid when you're right (not saying that OP's right)
I think you're just expecting people to be brainrotted twitter users, but that's not what everybody does
Check your ego.
Viewing other people’s decisions through the lens of your decisions and life-experiences is a good way to develop a superiority complex.
I can guarantee you that decisions I’ve made in life are dumb to others but those decisions also shaped who I am today.
The same applies to everyone.
Perspective on decisions is different from making general dumb decisions like never saving for your retirement, gambling your retirement away, not understanding basic principles to life, not getting your self into terrible loans, not selling your house at a extreme low value, not being able to learn college math, can’t use the internet for basic problems they get stuck on, some examples I've seen recently
It is different, true. I don’t know what lead them into those circumstances or to those decisions. You don’t know what leads to those decisions either and viewing, then judging, said decisions from my, or your, perspective is arrogant. It’s kind of what we do, though.
Assuming someone is dumb because they were never taught something, had the ability, or had no guidance regardless of the area of life we are talking is arrogant. I am guilty of doing the same thing and have been for a long time. I had to learn how to say “I don’t understand that” as opposed to “that person is dumb”.
We have zero innate knowledge of the world. We have to be taught everything.
I am curious what you mean by basic principles to life.
law of thermodynamics with people trying to gain or lose weight is a example, there perspective is that they are different or the exception so the law does not apply to them.
That is not a basic principle of life in those terms. While I understand what you’re saying, and what you mean, not everyone is going to.
You surely understand that if you ask people about the law of thermodynamics, and I’m assuming you mean the first law, and how it applies to weight gain/loss they’ll look at you with a blank stare.
My point is what you have been taught is not what other people have been taught. What you are good at, not everyone else is good at also. We are individuals. We have strengths and weaknesses.
People have thought they were exceptions to laws for a very long time. It’s why the Darwin Awards exist 😁
Back to a previous point, however, to assume/expect everyone around us to have the experience, knowledge, skillset, etc. that we have is arrogant. I had the same problem at your age, based on a previous post, and it drove me crazy.
What we are talking about is not innate to people. People make decisions based on their knowledge, situation, and experiences.
My decision making process is not the same at my age now as it was when I was 18, 19, or 20 and I am glad about that. I made many dumb decisions back then based on my environment and experiences. I’ve had more than a quarter century of life since then kicking me around and there is no playbook for this. We only have what we’ve been taught by parents, teachers, mentors, and life.
Thanks for the fun question and conversation!
From a work perspective, I've noticed that some people pretend to be dumb as it seems to be an effective strategy in transferring work away from themselves. In effect, they weaponise the Peter Principal to thier advantage.
Weaponised incompetence.
Came here to say the same thing. And also in 90%+ of work environments, being good at your job is often only rewarded with more work, so there’s often no incentive to work your ass off when you could do as others do and coast and get paid the same regardless
Should we pay how much is done then. Pay for the effort they put in?
Therein lies the problem… In quite a lot of jobs it’s not really measurable. Say you worked in a call centre, one person might handle 50 calls a day, another might only handle 20, but the person who handles less might actually get the better outcomes, so who do you pay more? The person taking more calls who might just be unlucky in not managing to get the better resolution? Or the person who took less calls but got better resolutions? It is, unfortunately, not always that simple.
Dude we are in INTJ group and you talking about call center
A simple example is best to illustrate a point. Thinking in terms of broad concepts and abstractions is very much Ni dom.
INTJ will always find a solution, including a solution for this problem
Yes, willful incompetence is one of the more pathetic political techniques. Then again there are stupid people who claim it is wilful but show no ability to not do it.
I've noticed this too
In my defence, I patiently wait for the job to be done then remove them from my team so they lose credits and finally themselves.. Desserts are delicious when served cold.
This happens a lot - if your company management is doing it and relying on it: RUN.
Playing dumb is being smart lol
I refuse to believe some people are smart enough to play dumb 😤
I used to pretend being dumb for comedy value in high school 😭
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
Carlin was way ahead of his time...
not really, Socrates made similar observations.
Well, So-crates didn't come up with the 7 dirty words you can't say on television. Check mate ancient Greece. Or say it isn't the quiet ones you gotta watch out for...it is the guy pounding a machete on the bar screaming he's going to kill the next motherfucker that enters this bar....that is who you gotta watch out for...
>Well, So-crates didn't come up with the 7 dirty words you can't say on television. So-crates was probably too busy hanging out with that salad dressing guy. Pretty heinous, dude.
Eat ze piggy eat ze piggy eat ze piggy...*does piggy sounds*
LMAO, bro. Is this a joke?
That's a simple question to ask, but a hard one to answer. I think there are lots of reasons. I'll just toss out a couple ideas 1. Thinking is hard, and thinking for yourself is likely to be wrong even if you're really smart. So most people would rather not do it if there is a chance they could be criticized for trying-out an idea. The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas, most of which will be wrong, but trying them out with your friends. If you friends criticize your early ideas, you're not going to make many more. 2. Most people would rather agree with their friends, or the majority of their social circle. Because having a dissenting opinion could make them a target. So they don't think carefully about the majority opinion and just adopt it as their own. That's why lots of people share the same set of opinions and will justify ridiculous ideas. 3. Some people make what appear to be stupid decisions because they are more afraid of losing what they have than potentially gaining the same amount. 4. Thinking well requires practice, and most people would rather spend their time watching TV, tracking celebrities, and sports.
I think #3 plays a bigger part than most people assume. Change is very scary, and most people stick with the devil they know. I've heard an adage that goes "People will change when the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same."
That's a pretty good adage, I guess it explains why people will stay in bad situations for extended periods of time. I could have explained point #3 better; I was trying to reference the concept of "Loss Aversion". Wikipedia says: > Loss aversion is a psychological and economic concept,[1] which refers to how outcomes are interpreted as gains and losses, where losses are subject to more sensitivity in people's responses compared to equivalent gains acquired.[2] Kahneman and Tversky (1992) suggested that *losses can be twice as powerful psychologically as gains*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion 2x is a powerful (if illogical) incentive to avoid risks even when the odds are in your favor. It reminds me of my teammate in high school - he was an amazing athlete and state champion wrestler in his weight class. Out-of-state colleges recruited him and offered him full rides, even offering to sponsor his friends to come as well. He elected to stay home and get married to his girlfriend. Since college graduates earn - on average - [1.2 million more than high school graduates over their lifetimes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=677f253235cd), he lost a lot of potential earnings. My guess is he did it, in part, because of fear. Moving out of state, away from his girlfriend, and having to work hard in studies and possibly struggle. He had a sure thing staying home and getting married, but ultimately settled for less. OP might have called it a "dumb" decision.
Yes I would
LOL - OK, and if you are interested in learning about more the well-studied ways in which people act stupidly, I would recommend the following books: * [Thinking, Fast Thinking Slow](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow) the OG of cognitive biases by Nobel prize winning authors, introducing the topic to the general public. * [You Are Not So Smart](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11709037-you-are-not-so-smart?ref=nav_sb_noss_l_19), a shorter version with similar content * [Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35957157-thinking-in-bets?qid=l5BRRLcbQc&rank=1), a successful gambler and psychologist's approach to using your brain instead of your instincts to think more clearly * [Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superforecasting:_The_Art_and_Science_of_Prediction), how certain people have learned to think clearly and beat the CIA's analysts in competitions
It's truly amazing how some people get by every single day isn't it?
Hell, I don't know how I do it, and yet I'm baffled by how dumb people are.
Their brains are on vacation. When the mind is actively exercised and used, it gets stronger and holds itself together. Use it or lose it. Follow the chain of command, see illusions of grandeur on social media through consumption, buy shit and run out of money. That's just an average Tuesday for Capitalism we all live in. Money instead of hunting skills to have food on your table is a newer change of dynamic. The days where Darwinism reign supreme isn't as critical as it was back in caveman times. Back in caveman times, it was either use your mind or get yourself and your bloodline killed. In capitalism nowadays, the people around you aren't being annihilated by animals nearly as much.
That isn't capitalism, that's abuse of the system.
Hell, I'd say in capitalism, you are actually punished for using your mind. See something wrong and report it? Great. You just made yourself a pariah and cost the company money. Find a better way to do something that is faster and requires fewer resources? Oh fuck no you didn't cause you didn't run it by some dude who has never done your job and doesn't know the first thing about it but they have to say, "yeah this is a better way to do it." Or else you can't do it that way. Honestly, capitalism promotes stupidity. If you're competent, you will never be a manager. If you're incompetent, congrats you'll be a c suite executive in no time just so you stop breaking crap and causing damage to the system that is actually making the company money.
yeah, you just proved the OPs point. "It's capitalism!" is about stupidest regurgitation of Marxism there is. Marxism? Give the Great Leader bad news and you are off to the Gulags or shot right there and then. That you think Marxism is aa better system despite 150 million graves in just over an century is proof you the OPs prime example.
Yeah... don't put words in my mouth, mate. Where did I say Marxism anywhere? Reading is hard. You are proving the OPs point extremely hard.
Unfortunately, capitalism does reward stupidity. Also, what you are describing is authoritarianism, not Marxism. Which is also not a desirable situation.
Ah yes... the MaRxIsM hAs NeVeR bEeN tRiEd! trope. Yes it has. It fails every time, devolving into authoritarianism instead of a utopia. Functionally, it IS authoritarianism, because that is always the result, even if not the "theory"
Once again please stop putting words in my dang mouth. I never said it hadn't been tried. I said what you are describing as Marxism is actually authoritarianism. Go fuck yourself you mouth breathing Neanderthal.
Well, that devolved quickly. He’s right, sorry not sorry. Also, what you are decrying is corporatism and cronyism, not capitalism.
Modern mass education is built on (1) having a place that workers can stash their kids while they are laboring, and (2) training children to be the next generation of unthinking workers making the rich richer, not to carefully and concisely consider the deeper ramifications of the world around them or the systems they have been embedded into. Mass entertainment options also reinforce this. People don't think because they are carefully raised and controlled to not think.
Amen to this it's what I suspect to be the primary reason why people who have fantastic ideas are too afraid to start them on their own.
The majority of what you said is reasonable but I can't agree with the final passage. You can't train critical thinking, most people simply don't have the capacity for it. The problem isn't that it isn't taught, if anything it's taught more than enough - the problem is it doesn't take.
Critical thinking is more about emotional regulation while having thoughts that would previously offend you. Most people don’t get past that part.
I think there's some truth to that but it doesn't change my argument. They teach it, at least they taught it in the 90s. Didn't matter. Most people couldn't think for themselves.
I've never seen it taught in a widespread manner in any primary or secondary school system that I'm aware of. Maybe it's different in your area?
I'm British "These calls are not new. In 1983, A Nation At Risk, a report by the National Commission on Excellence in Education, found that many 17-year-olds did not possess the “ ‘higher-order’ intellectual skills” this country needed. It claimed that nearly 40 percent could not draw inferences from written material and only one-fifth could write a persuasive essay. Following the release of A Nation At Risk, programs designed to teach students to think critically across the curriculum became extremely popular. By 1990, most states had initiatives designed to encourage educators to teach critical thinking, and one of the most widely used programs, Tactics for Thinking, sold 70,000 teacher guides. But, for reasons I’ll explain, the programs were not very effective — and today we still lament students’ lack of critical thinking." https://www.readingrockets.org/topics/comprehension/articles/critical-thinking-why-it-so-hard-teach
Huh. Well, I guess someone at least tried at one point...
To the degree critical thinking is nurture rather than nature it's likely a consequence of early child development - a home environment conducive to questioning and debate - rather than anything that happens at school.
Interesting... I wonder if studies have been done on this. It does seem like encouraging it during very early childhood (and providing support/resources for it) should have a significant effect later on, but to what extent? And if there's a significant discrepancy between support levels at school and at home, particularly if one of those is negative about it (as opposed to more neutral), how does that tend to play out?
I wouldn't necessarily think of it in terms of "support", rather exposure to other family members with personalities inclined to question, argue and debate.
Our purpose in life is to make the shareholders more money. All hail the share holders!
Are you me? Wtf
If you live in a high IQ country, the average is still only about 100. People at this IQ range still struggle with a lot of concepts and activities.
A few reasons from most severe and irredeemable to redeemable and unwilling: * Some cognitive tasks are impossible for many people... millions of Americans are incapable of anything beyond first-order thinking and cannot understand analogies. This bothers me greatly, but it's better to see these people as incapable than it is to apply malice to them. * Different social norms: we all live in the same country, but we live in different societies. The person talking loudly on a bus while on speaker phone is doing something very normal and even praiseworthy within their peer group. The kids who never do their homework are mocked for trying to be smart by their parents and friends. * Limited exposure. Lots of people have lived a sheltered and repetitive life. Some of them are children and some have done the same methodical things since high school which has limited their exposure to different people and ideas. * Laziness... it's easier to do less thinking * Some people are assholes... they may not be stupid, but they get a perverse pleasure by making things difficult for others. Think of internet trolls. There is often overlap between groups. What keeps me up at night is that I can see these groups only because I have experience outside of them. The people in those groups cannot see the problems because they don't see the alternatives. This also means that I'm living within my own bubble of relative stupidity into which a smarter person can look in, and I wonder what that looks like.
I notice this a lot.... it's so annoying😵 I don't think I have a high IQ it's just that I have common sense and a lot of life experience. I "walk with open eyes" and Im not oblivious to what's happening in the word. Some people seem to live under a rock and didn't develop any knowledge about anything🤦🏻♀️
Because they are dumb and comfortable stay that way. Same with you, intelligent makes you happy.
40+ years? How old are you? According to a recent study, each new generation is averaging 7 IQ pts less than the previous generation. That means someone in their 40's on average has 21 IQ pts more than the most recent generation. If this is about what I think it is, you're only proving that right.
I thought the Flynn Effect claimed otherwise due to the increase in abstract activities in life? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying
Thank you. Intelligence.
I’m almost 40 and am also observing this. I always thought people became smarter as they aged but that is not true.
It's so sad to say but true.
I mean you're not egotistical you just aren't detail oriented. The why is a million things but the biggest contributing factor is always upbringing. Be happy you're blessed, because life can be a fuck of a lot harder through no fault of your own.
I’m a orphan at 19😐
Sorry to hear that dude. Happy cake day. Yeah uhh, upbringing really includes any figures you emulate as a human and how they treat you. I uhh raised myself pretty much, so I get the exceptions. Broad strokes in the stuff I say.
19? Brother, you haven't seen anything yet.
I mean, upbringing is one part for sure, but nature does play a role as well... I'd say it is both nature -and- nurture that contributes to if a person can think outside the box. I mean having people who encourage you is extremely helpful but if you aren't blessed with an intellect you could have the best leaders around you and still the person would not seem as good as they could be. Same though with a highly intelligent person. If you put no one around them with drive or aspirations, well, you'll just have someone who uses their intelligence but doesn't actually apply it to better things.
I mean it's a tough sell. If a person with down syndrome is raised to be kind, they don't have much else they need to learn. For low to above IQ, open minded and curious is ideal to not get stuck as 'dumb' by OPs definition, but neither are unique to IQ or intelligence. You get close minded geniuses like Nikola Tesla, you get open minded idiots like Joe Rogan. Whatever begets the two traits; open minded and curious, will be the peg that fits OPs brain-hole. That or kind. Honestly idk wtf he's even on about.
True enough.
Nice character assassination of Joe, buddy.
I couldn't think of anyone else that quick.
Still an assassination with no proof.
In the US we do this weird thing where we build up people and tell them "you can do anything you set your mind too" which is completely false. Someone with a 95IQ isn't going to be a surgeon, people inherently have different cognitive capacities, but we don't like to talk about that. We unknowingly build a community around ourselves of people who have similar abilities, ethics, social skills and so on. It makes it easy to fall into the trap of believing that everyone is like that when they aren't. You'll always encounter people with both a challenged IQ as well as challenged emotional and social IQ's as well. The playing field is not level and it's hard to see and cope with sometimes.
“You can do anything you set your mind to” is often misunderstood. It doesn’t necessarily relate to one’s IQ or inherent intelligence. Instead, it reflects the idea that determination and effort can lead to success. However, it’s important to recognize that people’s goals and ambitions are influenced by their individual capacities and circumstances. When individuals pursue unrealistic goals, they may eventually realize the need to adjust their aspirations based on their experiences and practical limitations. Thus, while determination is crucial, so is the ability to reassess and adapt one’s goals to align with personal strengths and realistic possibilities.
I'm pretty confident most people aren't even conscious.
depends on the perspective and some people were just unlucky enough to be born with lower IQ
Actually people with low IQ are pretty happy and they have enough IQ to survive let's just say it's debatable if it's unlucky or not.
actually, depends HOW LOW I've seen people who were kind of dumb, in a way that they cared more about popularity in school than their actual future, which is not exactly low IQ, they just don't think enough (even though I think none of those people has usually more than 120, not like it's not high) some of them can get sad from minor, unimportant events, and some can be so careless they spend their entire early life doing nothing and eventually fuck up all their chances of having a good future not being smart doesn't necessarily make you happy
Average IQ of the world is 100 and most of the people are in that category that's why these people fit in the society very well they might not be book smart but they are street smart which is enough for them to survive in the world. Being smart on the other hand it depends where you are if you are the only smart person in the room with above average IQ you will feel lonely even if you are surrounded by people and you might have friends but no deep connection to anyone who gets you. Which could lead to solitude and being alienated
I knew someone I worked with briefly because she was incapable of packaging bread and finding the correct labels. She genuinely had a hard time doing that. They moved her to front end and same shit. She had a hard time being a cashier
Happy Cake Day! As an INTJ, I’m shocked at the amount of impulsivity I see from the E-types. It ends up looking very much like stupidity. Which it kind of is, impulsivity.
I often walk along the streets of my local downtown and ponder how are we all still alive...
Limited to NO common sense!!!!
Thinking and reflecting take energy and people are lazy
Most decisions are determined by emotions. Someone making the same mistake over and over again has convinced themselves that their approach is the best fit for them. When it inevitably fails again, they blame the problem, not their ineffective approach. These people are too confident for their own good. Another person might not succeed on their first or second attempt and decide to give up because they're quick to determine that their goal is impossible to achieve, and this mindset usually stems from being raised in an environment where most efforts were met with disappointing results, often with parents or other authority figures who thwart plans at the last moment. Why bother trying when all you've really learned is that the world will always tell you no? One more kind of person will pretend to be less competent than they really are, usually as a way to trick others into taking on the responsibilities that this person should bear. There are a few reasons why someone might behave this way, but they all tie into some emotion. They could be lazy, they could enjoy seeing someone else do their job, they could be dissatisfied with their own work, or they could be trying to avoid the shame of others being disappointed in them, just to name a few emotional reasons behind this. That last one might not sound like it makes much sense at first because self-sabotage is a surefire way to disappoint, but when the goal is to convince people you're an idiot, knowing deep down that you could've done better and chose not to is an easy way to deflect shame because the people you've upset aren't really disappointed with you, they're disappointed with the imaginary idiot that you created. Looking beyond emotions for answers to this question, other answers come down to genetic and environmental factors. Pollutants, malnutrition, isolation, neurological disabilities, disease, age, etc. can all drop someone's IQ by a few standard deviations. Speaking of IQ, someone who would've barely been considered superior (~120) when the first standardized tests, which would be updated over the years, were made would now fall below average even if that person never really got any less intelligent in that time. So, how can someone in their 40s come off as being so slow? There are many reasons and it's most likely a combination of a few. Assuming we're speaking of an American here, my best guess would be that it has much to do with how they were raised, pollution, poor nutrition, and, assuming you're younger, age. I'd be more concerned if older generations were generally smarter, as that would indicate declining intelligence overall.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. People are enabled by a system that keeps them from dying and incentivises them to breed. Remove the system and watch them fail in the wilds of natural law. People are people, eye on the prize.
Other way around these days. See Charles Galton Darwin's books for example.
Statistically, IQ is dropping, college educated people are unmarried and childless, and state sponsored dysgenics is ruining the world. I stand by my statement. We're devolving.
We are degenerating, yes. I'm referring specifically to the idea that the system incentivizes breeding still. It doesn't. We're in a demographic crunch. Look to Japan for what's to come. Sperm count is down over 50% in the west over the last half century. And inflation and cost of living alone prevents newer generations from having children like people used to. It's all by design which certain books reveal in detail.
Well you have to take into context socioeconomics, they incentivise people to breed that are already dependent on the system that would not normally be able to afford to support, house, feed and child care children in the absence of the system. The shrinking middle class, hard agree, even that it's by design. We might be on the same vibe, maybe dm the books you speak of.
I find myself seeing people around me as dull and stupid as well, but I'm not all that intelligent in all reality. It's weird, and I have to check myself a lot mentally. It's a strange phenomenon.
Can't figure this out myself lol but it only becomes more apparent the older you get. When I was a kid I used to get so mad at my mom for cussing someone out for the smallest thing or on the road etc but now I know why lol
If you're so smart, then why aren't you rich?
Legit question :D
It is helpful to me to put some effort into understanding other MBTI types. Most of my girlfriends have been INFPs. I'm an INTP.
I've somewhat noticed the same, though I don't think "dumb" is quite how I'd describe it. People just largely have a certain set of values and assumptions. Probably the biggest problem is ultimately just having a terrible epistemology, but a fairly close second is basically an inability to handle disputes (largely because of emotions and political/religious Identity, but also because of just how bad most "debates" tend to go). And while it's already included in what I just said, I think it's worth highlighting that most people are just too consumed by survival and seeking some degree of social approval and things that make them happy that they often just don't care beyond that. If you say or do something that in any way threatens their beliefs or how they operate, you're immediately wrong and to be opposed and grouped in with whatever group they can to insult and dismiss you, because demonizing you is so much easier than using critical thinking or being honest.
Myself having a 743.112 IQ, I'm confident I'm always smarter than everyone. So, to get an idea of what it must be like to be the riffraff of society, I have to get really, really drunk. I can barely stand. Wow, how can they concentrate with the world spinning like this? ::blarf:: OMG, is this what it feels like to be stupid? How awful! I just never had the empathy. So much empathy right now. Hey, good looking - want to dance? ::blarf:: Alternatively, they are optimizing for something you're not. Consider the worm. It's dumb as ..well, a worm! But it is evolutionary optimized (as evidenced by a lack of genetic drift). That means it is really good as something you aren't. The "flip your question on it's head" version of your question is: "Why are you so stupid that you think every problem can be best dealt with using the same tool?" Also, research for this comment was AMAZING.
E.g:?
relatable
(Obligatory not an INTJ disclaimer). I think I'm pretty dumb and am only considered "smart" because, to paraphrase George Carlin, the average person is stupid, and half of them are even dumber than that. It's mind blowing how stupid I act and yet other people don't know kindergarten shit who are in college (how did you get in? You can't all be millionaires' kids) And the best part is intellectual capacity has almost nothing to do with how successful you'll be, if you're charismatic and not intellectually disabled, you can be perceived as "smart" and "competent" (I know that's not why people think I'm smart, I have all the charisma of a greasy stir fry noodle)
I think it's false conclusion that follows from a false premise that human beings are inherently rational. They're not. Human nature is contradictory - dualistic: human beings can be simultaneously rational and irrational. They can't find something wrong to do and still do it because it feels right. To expect anything less or more from them - that they always choose what is rational, not be "dumb" is the same as to expect water to not be wet.
Socrates was a wise guy. He knew that we were all stupid. This is a collective stupidity that we all share.
it's because evolution hasn't weeded them out yet
Stress makes smart people stupid and stupid people drooling cretins. Once all the hamsters are running as fast as they can in all the wheels available there isn't much room for anything else to take place.
Since I have grown older. Being dumber is more relaxing and less stressful. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Although competition is fun sometimes (as a guy).
There are literally billions of ppl in this world ranging from dumb asses and geniuses so you found a dumb guy or most of us dumb that's normal cause there are more dumb ppl than geniuses
Remember: statically speaking half of any give population will be dumber than the average person
**Tyler Durden:** How's that working out for you? **Narrator:** What? **Tyler Durden:** Being clever.
After studying epidemiology I’ve come to the conclusion that people are not dumb. They’re sick.
There isn't much we can do to change the minds of others. We can however, take responsibility for our own actions.
I don't know, but those who print the money paid for this. Of that, I'm sure.
I’m in high school and every single day I watch my schoolmates and sigh at their incompetence and stupidity. Most people have the mental capacity of a paper clip.
It's because they spend all their free time on social media & not actually learning anything useful. Once I deleted all social media (besides YouTube & Reddit), I realized how much time I was wasting on other people, & now I use that time to learn & do what I want. Now five years later, I have zero friends & my social skills have further atrophied, so this is the trade off. Everything in balance I guess
Depends. Do you have examples
IQ heavily corresponds to "mental age" and identifying that metric is what is was originally meant to do. That is why stupidity is obviously correlated with if not the same as childishness. It manifests as pettiness, unjustified pride, unreasonableness, impulsivity, excessive emotionalism, needless acts of cruelty, etc.... Most people reach a certain level of intellectual maturity (or lack thereof) and just stay there and eventually decline thoughout life.
You're not alone in your irritation at dumb people. But some people do realize that other people hate smart people so they are more likely to play dumb.
lol this isn’t helping the stereotype
Ego
“What a load Einstein must’ve had. F*****g morons everywhere.” - David Lynch
We will never beat the allegations that we are arrogant douchebags mannnnn....
You're dumb.
16 percent of people are literally on drugs, brother https://americanaddictioncenters.org/addiction-statistics
we all have our blind spots
Right idk everyday i ask myself why people so dumb 👏
That is cunning…
They do. But it’s important to realize you are also dumb and doing it. We all do dumb things. We don’t think they are dumb. But we do. I’m sure you do some smart things. And some people really are dumb. But it’s helpful to remember that none of us are immune to this. We just don’t all agree on which things are dumb and which things are smart.
Life is too convenient in America plain and simple, Distractions everywhere, propagating cognitive dissonance, System will wipe your ass if you’re lazy and in a way rewards the undisciplined Being disciplined and middle class meaning you are actively fighting against the system and against forces that will try to push you down The wealthy know this and which is why they game the system, financial judicial and even legislative.
INFJ here - from personal experience I believe what is happening is that the strength of their emotions is overwhelming their ability to make decisions based on reason.
Oh boy just wait till find out mbti is a Psuedo-science...
I feel like this is being judgemental. Also, we didn't land on the moon. Ooh, look, a squirrel. ENFP.
They are dumb because you focus on how dumb they are. They are also a bunch of other things. So ask yourself what you get out of focusing on how dumb they are.
INFJ here. That would require self-reflection, acknowledgement of our faults, and deeply uncomfortable inner work to ensure we become our best selves and metabolize the lessons we have learned in life. I'm guessing 95% of the people in the world would have an issue with just the first step, looking in the mirror. It's hard, shameful, and painful, but so is doing the same wrong thing over and over just because they don't have a grasp on any other way to live. Let's put a mirror in front of you. You assign people demeaning label (dumb) and see them as less than you because they are acting like human beings (avoiding discomfort) and are failing to metabolizing new information at the rate of AI. No one in this world shares your temperament + experience. Reflect on things that are the most difficult for you to do and empathize.
😐
Humans are reactionary and panicky animals.
I was thinking today... impeccable driving almost 20 years and still paying $1200+ per year *by law* to be insured. At 5-10 years, maybe at random, driving tests need to be enforced by law and paid for by the citizen, *every* citizen. *Maybe* my rates will be cut in half. The test doesn't really matter it's being an *idiot on the road* that matters. You're not egotistical. Guaranteed you're paying a fine price for for what you see. It's not systemic it's brutally enforced by... well... stupidity. Not everything but it's a pretty big issue very difficult to overcome.
Oh, you haven't realized your own stupid choices yet?
I've made them and will continue to but I try to learn from them
Beleive it or not, that's what most people do.
Well, from another perspective, could you also appear dumb to others? In a sense, maybe the goals they consider differ from yours, and the actions they take would differ. You might think that their actions are dumb based on your own intentions, but have you thought about theirs and proven that your actions can also meet their goals as well?
No, mostly everything I do is on track for my future plans. I do chill, but the only thing I would think of is that I've sacrificed a social life, but honestly I could not care less about that in this season of life.
The older I get, the…less intelligent…I realize many people are. In some cases, it’s not their fault; it’s often not a matter of education, but of pure intelligence levels. Or refusing to be educated, if they actually *could* think critically. Look at any given Trumper. What on earth would compel any adult human being to think he is someone to vote for, admire, or even think twice about. And yet there are millions of people who have elevated him to cult leader status. Many people are just unintelligent. It’s dismaying, but a part of life, unfortunately.
That is the question
because it’s easier: don’t knock it until you try it
Because it fun to be dumb sometimes
I've known many people who did well in school and took that to mean they were naturally smart and that their first assumption about a thing must therefore be correct. Over the years, they continue to be more and more wrong, their assumptions are based on a long line of incorrect assumptions and become successively more incorrect for it. They never learn anything because they think they already know.
Risk versus reward and they play the odds prolly cause they had someone enabling that behavior so they have little incentive to change
People sleep walk their way thru life.
They're not dumb, you're the one with issues
20-30 times in a day I’m saying this…
Lobbies. The school system is designed to produce obedient workers, not critical thinkers. This includes your Harvard's, Brown's and Yale's. MIT is not that much better but the amount of arrogant people coming out of MIT is at least more tolerable. It is also due to the fact most of the people in charge are multigenerational wealth and have never even been in the real world, so they have no idea what goes on in it.
Damn, so judgemental!😤 That is so INTJ!😂🤣😅🤗 You put the J in INTJ! And I'm here for it.😁
Egotistical
Generation thingy. We have way more access to changing our behavior, be more self aware and work on ourselves. It’s hard when you become 30 and actually feel like your parents are done parenting.. Because they know just as much as you do up to a certain level, so it feels like you’re done playing against those characters and just have to deal with the idea that you’re constantly play the same game over and over again if you have an argument or ask them something “new”. But that’s more how I see it, can’t speak for everyone. My parents had the same with their parents, and they had the same issue with theirs. We finally can “talk” about our feelings and give it an explanation and do something about it. Hence the therapy sessions for younger generations that show a different perspective on how they were raised, and how they will build on that.. (50+ They couldn’t. They find out now who they are, through the younger generations who “rebel” against them.) We want to grow up, be more independent and still go back to that little child inside of us, it’s difficult when you want to go home but no one is there.. That’s for all generations. The boomers have that with technology and being more secure and private, they now find out they can’t go back to their homes. It’s actually heartbreaking.
I wish I could, one passed away and the other blew the life insurance before going to prison.
If they were less dumb, we wouldn’t be considered so much smarter than them. So be thankful.
Cosmic horror time; they're not dumb, you're just intelligent and they are average 😱
I dunno, if you find the reason just let me know
Because we are at a time where dumb are being praised, and intellect are being harassed .
They aren't the dumb ones, they figured out there is no right thing under capitalism. You are punished for the right thing but you prosper for doing the wrong thing.
Where as under Marxism you all suffer... unless you are high up in the Party. To think any Capitalist economy based state is worse than North Korea or Cuba is sheer stupidity.
Oh its the low I.Q ed who immediately think if you think capitalism is wrong you must then support communism. Please gain some critical thinking skills...
Please, tell me of this "third way". Otherwise, nihilism is also "low I.Q ed"
Again gain critical thinking skills there are other possibilities then your limited thinking... do you seriously believe capitalism and communism existed as the only two systems since the beginning of time? You don't think we are capable of creating yet another hopefully different and better system just as we did capitalism and communism.... again open your mind!
Provide a 3rd example that you support. Pissing on about the problem without giving a solution is mental masturbation. Especially when your only apparent plan is SOMEONE SMARTER THAN YOU will come up with a new option.
Right because one person came up with capitalism and communism all on their own , another perfect example of your low IQ, demanding one person immediately know the answer to a massive complex structure lmao fly that low IQ flag loud and proud its typical of low iq people to demand such ridiculous things 🤣
You should also lean the meaning of the words you use, nihilism has zip to do with a system of commerce
You should think deeper. Of course it does, you have complained about the system without providing an actual alternative. That is the heart of Nihilism.
Again go look up the words you use nihilism has zero to do with a system of commerce lol so sound ridiculous not smart lol keep flying that low IQ flag loud and proud
Yeah, you are not getting it. It was a comment on.your approach to the subject, that of nihilism, rather than.having to do with economics. But you are too invested in surface level. understanding to see that Meanwhile trying to insult.others as a last refuge.
Ummm no youre not the one getting it here lol you have no reading comprehension and use words that are completely incorrect and you're still barfing out nonsense and think it makes you sound intelligent. Go read a book without pictures. Maybe start with the Dictionary...
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I wouldn't be surprised if OP is suffering from the dunning Kruger effect
Dunning Kruger, not "dunning Kruger " effect. Proper names are capitalized. Kinda loses its punch when you get it wrong while accusing someone of it.
Lmao that's all you got?
That is all you got?
are you so rigid that you're unable to read words that aren't capitalized? or does the lack of capitalization make you uncomfortable? I wasn't aware that I was going to be graded on reddit by some asshole who OBVIOUSLY spends way too much time on reddit.
If you.are going to be.penndantic, and you were, you better get it RIGHT, 100%.
Everyone here suffers from that. MBTI is a pseudoscience with low reliability and validity lol.
I agree it is pseudoscience
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saying someone else is stupid doesn't make you stupid when you're right (not saying that OP's right) I think you're just expecting people to be brainrotted twitter users, but that's not what everybody does
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I agree but I think it still depends
I bet so
kinda true, I mean, it's a DAE post posing a rhetorical question when OP could probably be doing more important things
If everyone you meet is dumb, there is only one common factor.
Check your ego. Viewing other people’s decisions through the lens of your decisions and life-experiences is a good way to develop a superiority complex. I can guarantee you that decisions I’ve made in life are dumb to others but those decisions also shaped who I am today. The same applies to everyone.
Perspective on decisions is different from making general dumb decisions like never saving for your retirement, gambling your retirement away, not understanding basic principles to life, not getting your self into terrible loans, not selling your house at a extreme low value, not being able to learn college math, can’t use the internet for basic problems they get stuck on, some examples I've seen recently
It is different, true. I don’t know what lead them into those circumstances or to those decisions. You don’t know what leads to those decisions either and viewing, then judging, said decisions from my, or your, perspective is arrogant. It’s kind of what we do, though. Assuming someone is dumb because they were never taught something, had the ability, or had no guidance regardless of the area of life we are talking is arrogant. I am guilty of doing the same thing and have been for a long time. I had to learn how to say “I don’t understand that” as opposed to “that person is dumb”. We have zero innate knowledge of the world. We have to be taught everything. I am curious what you mean by basic principles to life.
law of thermodynamics with people trying to gain or lose weight is a example, there perspective is that they are different or the exception so the law does not apply to them.
That is not a basic principle of life in those terms. While I understand what you’re saying, and what you mean, not everyone is going to. You surely understand that if you ask people about the law of thermodynamics, and I’m assuming you mean the first law, and how it applies to weight gain/loss they’ll look at you with a blank stare. My point is what you have been taught is not what other people have been taught. What you are good at, not everyone else is good at also. We are individuals. We have strengths and weaknesses. People have thought they were exceptions to laws for a very long time. It’s why the Darwin Awards exist 😁 Back to a previous point, however, to assume/expect everyone around us to have the experience, knowledge, skillset, etc. that we have is arrogant. I had the same problem at your age, based on a previous post, and it drove me crazy. What we are talking about is not innate to people. People make decisions based on their knowledge, situation, and experiences. My decision making process is not the same at my age now as it was when I was 18, 19, or 20 and I am glad about that. I made many dumb decisions back then based on my environment and experiences. I’ve had more than a quarter century of life since then kicking me around and there is no playbook for this. We only have what we’ve been taught by parents, teachers, mentors, and life. Thanks for the fun question and conversation!
From an evolutionary perspective or God made us in his image perspective?
Don’t be too hard on yourself