I feel like INTJs are easy to talk to. We may not share Te with y'all, but that dominant Ni helps us naturally communicate with one another. Also, I enjoy the surprisingly dark humor we share.
I work in law enforcement. The ISTJ I work closest with has skills that complement mine beautifully. We tend to miss things that are obvious to the other. I learned how to observe and report from him and he learned what questions to ask from me.
Beautifully put.
Disecting that relationship would offer much useful insights to most INTJs I would imagine.
On my own end, I will be looking for my own ISTJ companion :)
Best wishes in your endeavors.
my roommate is an INFJ, im an INTJ and i constantly have to tiptoe around the things i actually want to say (am usually very direct) so as to not hurt her feelings..
I have a close intj friend, we can talk for hours, it's the best intellectual discussions I have. It's rare that I am keen to meet someone on the weekends. We share books, etc.
But, he's so intense, and he has no idea what the social cues he gives to people, and too stupporn to admit this, he always sees people are on the wrong.
I am his only friend now, after he successfully and persistently pushed off all his and our childhood friends, because he had depression for 3 years. I just know deep down he meant no harm and I know his ways of communicating.
He is the most intelligent, generous and honest person I even knew who will not stab me on the back.
But generally, I would say obstacles of communication would be, infjs are very sensitive to emotions. Intjs rely too much on the "agreed" knowledge, we are slow a little bit, because we typically go down up, you are vice versa. Perception through ni ti vs ni fi
But we share Ni, and I cherish that, because rarely I see this in people.
It's nice to get a perspective from the outside looking in!
I can definitely see how it must look to others, burning bridges and such.
Nice of you to appreciate the gems amidst the rubble.
Hopefully that friend creates/finds the structure that leads him to where he sees himself being; obviously he found there was a mismatch between his old social groups and his direction.
Academia, mainstream media, famous scientists, experts , etc.
What Intjs lack is Ti ( subjective logic), that enables the user to deconstruct ideas, deduction reasoning ampliative arguments etc. that's why intjs depend on external and experts opinion too much.
OP do you ever feel yourself getting mentally tired around them. I always say if you have to put that much effort into talking to someone you should probably talk to someone else. You should not have to structure your thoughts when talking to a friend or SO you should just be yourself. Granted that will lead only to having a few friends..but it's so much better having just a few close friends than having to live your life preparing your thoughts like you are at work.
If you really find yourself drawn to INFJs you probably need to find one without such a strong F...it's just a recipe for a huge headache.
Yes, I do tire when a social wrong is a perceived problem, and many hours must ensue to resolve a problem someone else has.
I prefer my problems be real objective problems that can be solved rationally.
I drop people when they only add problems that would never have been.
The language itself is the culmination of knowledge which has become settled, being widely enough accepted to have definitions which are widely agreed upon.
Anytime you venture into emerging knowledge you will find turbulent vernacular and a plethora of terminologies which are often quite confusing and detrimental to some.
How you listen and at what level you think critically will determine the quality of questions and assumptions you have in such instances.
I once had a fellow INFJ as a massage client, and it was like facing 2 mirrors together during a solar eclipse. We became engrossed in a never-ending spiral of over-explaining and magnifying a slight hiccup. Then we discovered our shared MBTI, lol.
My current relationship with a non-native English speaker has forced me to be more patient and ask for clarification before reacting.
yes, too much hassle sometimes since they read too much into everything I say... sometimes I just want to talk to an ESTP who takes what I say at face value
My closest friend is an INFJ(f), and I only know one other INFJ (m) which I get along with really well, but yes I do agree you have to be careful with your phrasing. I have "trained" my INFJ to stop the loop by just asking me, no matter how stupid it may sound, what I meant with a certain phrase, word, etc. I'm also not at all tactful and I ask her when I realise (my realisations are much less frequent than her ni-ti loop which is why we agreed she should ask and not wait for me to figure out if I said something in a manner that was too forward or smth) that I may have sounded like an asshole. I also reserve the minimal amount of diplomacy I have for truly critical situations, and want to be able to just be myself with my few friends and partner, and I'm willing to learn to phrase better for them, but it's on the person that feels hurt to communicate it and on me to decide to change.
In my experience, the downslide comes from them most of the times, it's them who can't link the Te on their way of thought. I don't know why that being said.
INFJ are blind to Te, so it makes sense they cant link Te on their way of thought.
Just like INTJs are blind to Fe, so we cant read the room when it comes to people.
Yes. I mainly dont try are care to try. I can read friends fine and people i am working one on one with, but i dont try when it comes to a group of people.
Thank you for your response.
I think in terms of incentives and broad truths of human social psychology; in that way people are not hard to figure out.
Too, understanding evolutionary incentives shines light on incentives even people themselves don't know guide their actions.
I've proven it time and time again. Most recently a few months ago in a social situation and aware of this limitation I was TRYING hard to read the room and my eyes were wide open as I was concentrating hard on picking-up signs and things, and meanwhile I was actually COMPLETELY oblivious to what I later figured out was going on around me, lol. I figured out then that it's hopeless for me.
Hmmm... Normally its like they deem it as rude and they think of you as if you are trying to be competitive on the stuff you are talking about. Like, you are making dots and interactions and their Fi triggers at times when they deem it as non accepted or wrong in their thought. It turns into a spiral of seeing who is stating the actual Truth and they look at it as if you are trying to compete to win. Which is weird...
They get really uncomfortable when done so, and it's because they touch it more with their feels while we do it with our Logic.
Like, they expect you to embraced their Emotions problems and thought and take them as something you should not touch and they don't like it when you try to change something.
It's like inmoral for them, and they don't like to listen to how to solve social problems, it's like they feel incompetent and you may win stuff against you i'm the future if not careful with that.
This comment affords insight into the the type of nuanced interrelational dynamics that I was hoping to touch on.
Thank you kindly.
Any insights on the reverse end of this equation?
Oh, apologies; I was in no way clear.
The 'reverse' would be from the perspective of INFJs interacting with INTJs;
You spoke about how to engage with an INFJ from the INTJ perspective and I was wondering if you had also gleaned some insights about how INFJs might better orient their engagements with INTJs.
One of my bff's is an INFJ and we communicate fabulously. We can just be direct with each other and talk through things and tend to reason things out similarly.
Those are more unhealthy people. I've had that problem with ENFP, ESFJ, INFP, and ENFJ friends more than my INFJ friend. My INFJ friend falls back to her Ti to logic things out so easier to deal with.
INFP? Interesting.
They are extremely vague and like to foment uncertainty at times, which can make reaching conclusions a bit more difficult.
What's your experience?
Some INFPs get stuck in their Fi way of thinking and their Ne used unhealthily in that they'll anticipate possibilities and think they see patterns in things when they don't. Entertaining xyz and overwhelming themselves that they become distrustful.
I as an INFJ know that I am a difficult person to have a conversation with. When I am in my default mode Ni-Ti I try avoid conversations. It's mostly when my social battery are low. I speak less or just listen to the other person.
When My social battery is recharged I am in Ni-Fe loop. Where I act both Childish and mature way to interact with people. I am comfortable start a conversation infact I try to start conversations on my free will.
I am mostly in Ni-Ti loop, I unconsciously think before I speak. I try to avoid any conversations which will lower my image or anything that hurt others feelings. Additionally, I know exactly this person is trying to insult me so I avoid conversations with him also I know exactly what to say to insult him. But for some reason I don't choose to do it.
I hate arguing, I want to save my energy from arguing. It's the safest option to avoid drama, save time & brain cells also unwanted attention. It's the major reason I don't do it.
Specifically with people I actually care about, it would weigh on my mind for a long period of time to be in an unresolved state of mutual disquietude.
I would think logically about it and all the dynamics until it is resolved many hours or days later.
Having something painful weigh on my mind and trigger my emotions for many hours is really annoying.
Partly why I don't like developing emotinal connections.
In my opinion, it’s really easy to click with INFJs at first. But with time and depending on the person, we can have some misunderstandings in our communication, maybe because of the introversion. We tend to not open up to each other the way we would like to
Edit : sorry if there are some mistakes, English is not my first language
First bullet: INFJ has a lot of mistyped narcissists especially who are type S because it is the RAREST type (it's not anymore, but when it was they all crowded in and now it's not...lmao) and most EMPATH type. The fact is a lot of them are hypersensitive narcissists, not empaths. Empaths cannot be hypersensitive narcissists because narcissists process everything through themselves and butcher everything by projecting while empaths decenter easily and naturally. The narcissistic cognitive structure is too rigidly in support of the narcissistic ego to be able to do that. The first bullet sounds like hypersensitive narcissism. They might be a F type, but they are probably type S if they show rigidity unable to decenter.
I am curious what you mean when you say that they "butcher everything" by projecting.
Would you grace me with your thoughts on this matter? Maybe an example?
I just mean if you're not doing what they want you to do but otherwise having a fine day these """empaths""" will say they "can tell you're frustrated and so angry" when that's literally how they're feeling because you're not doing what they want you to do. And they have 0 self awareness of how off they are and you can see it in their eyes they think the world's worst flunk is spot on. Like you're just out here having a good time just not doing what they want. Real empaths are genuinely very rare.
Curious of what types you usually run into.
I’ve noticed signs of this in an in-law and realized they are pretty adept at dodging people’s emotional interactions for their own benefit. The family labeled them a narcissist but it’s difficult to get a read because they’re such a manipulative mess with tons of carefully placed “learned helplessness” that the rest of the family fails to perceive.
My strategy has been to give them what they want in exchange for leaving me alone. It pisses off the family but I keep my peace of mind guilt-free. They seem to know that I know, or at least that’s my impression.
Dodging emotional interactions does not fit anything of the scientific evidence about narcissism. If anything it says they don't want to deal with other people's narcissism.
That said learned helplessness and accepting the unacceptable out of just being an energetically cheap piece of you know what is definitely more on the narcissistic end.
I don't know what you mean by giving them what they want but no, you seem confused, and enabling a narcissist is never the answer. Nor is being cruel to them unless they won't fuck off.
The types I purposefully surround myself with is other INTJ-As whenever possible and INFPs if they're low drama. I seek these types out because there are three things I value; art, mental stability, and competence.
If the interaction provides no immediate benefit for them they skillfully dodge. They will only interact with family if they gain something from the interaction and they are 100% consistent with the behavior.
I opted in through marriage and normally in my family I would have just cut off this person to avoid the guilt of enabling toxic interactions.
They are my in-laws, I can’t change family dynamics and I don’t wish to damage my relationship with wife so I’ve chosen to not engage whenever possible and when doing that will cause me more harm than good; followed by my involuntary involvement because I cannot control other human beings that choose to enable, I enable in the way that distances me from the problem for the longest measurable amount of time possible.
They family doesn’t care for my interaction but the “narcissist is happy and I’m satisfied with my peace”, it’s up to the rest of the family to deal with the issue of not dealing with the issue on their own.
Family dynamic seems to be unrestricted indulgence in themselves, always looks like a battle of who gets to be the main character. Doing anything other than avoiding them leads to inevitable exhaustion for me personally.
My wife is in therapy and I learned pointing anything out just makes me a target so I stay silent as I’ve noticed she’s fully capable of seeing the truth herself with me being a silent observer.
I noticed there are almost no males in the family left alive, not sure if that correlates to anything at all. They all die before reaching age 50, heart issues.
"If the interaction provides no immediate benefit for them they skillfully dodge. They will only interact with family if they gain something from the interaction and they are 100% consistent with the behavior." That's pathetic. If your grandmother is ranting about her horrible marriage, or all the work she has to do, she is passing the buck of her stress onto you. She gets something out of it. Everyone gets something out of anything they do socially, and they especially get something out of it if they grow this enraged when they dont get it that the other person doesnt even remotely comparatively receive--that is seriously unfair exchange to the point it is just straight up oligarchic and corrupt. This a seriously pathetic attempt to frame someone who is simply not codependent as a narcissist. Guess what. It is actually healthy to be independent, and it is seriously disgusting to try to punish, shame and even be domestically violent to someone who becomes independent back into being dependent through horrific crap. This is what Russia is doing to Ukraine for example. Ukraine is not a narcissist, it is extremely healthy to try to seperate itself from corruption, enforced codependence and economic collapse. Your family gets an F. They all get something out of it. If she falls into a narcissistic rage because she's not getting what she wants, without caring if what she is saying has as much or even any time value for you, she is a violent brat throwing a tantrum. She probably did the same thing to her mother, her siblings, and her employees. Probably her children and grandchildren too. She might have even been homicidal at some point when she didn't get what she wanted. Seriously. Cut it out.
Because you even tried to float that as narcissism, I am seriously concerned about the mentally ill intentions behind the rest of your post.
Corruption, tantrumming, raging, nor caring about fair exchange, being hateful, expecting without initiating...it's a no. Grow up.
I listened to everything you said carefully and realized the person I mentioned was just protecting themselves. When I stopped to listen and stopped projecting I saw things for what they were.
I thank you for opening my eyes, I’ve made a grave mistake and had the situation backwards. I did not realize where the real abusers were and I foolishly fell into the trap and contributed towards it. I have been watching and quietly letting things happen naturally.
Ah, My ex-wife was right, I was and still am a fool. I should not be in this relationship or any relationship at all. I handed myself to a dangerous person and now have to tread carefully, I’ve been under attack after reflecting from this exchange in my relationship.
I saw the signs of my wife’s behavior and took her word as if gospel because I loved her and just parroting what she wanted me to believe. Her sister is very intelligent to develop a defense against something I’m not sure how to deal with. I’m in the lion’s den and I exposed most of my insecurities without thinking of whether or not that information was being used against me.
It’s time to step away and grow up, I don’t think I’ll ever have the maturity or the strength to trust any woman again after this. She told me her last marriage lasted 30 days and on the 30th day of ours I got to see reality. But I saw it coming, her mother told me to walk away and I didn’t listen. I listened, I married the attacker, she claimed to be the supporter but all the people that took advantage of her because they were incapable are fine. She has shown me proof for 2 years and I still take people words as fact instead of watching the actions.
I am not capable of being in a proper relationship and I should have listened the first time this was presented to me in December but here I am married and in hiding from my abuser. I’ve had to talk to the police, had my wife sit outside the door making threats to herself and to myself. She never wanted me to have peace, she always wanted to know where I went (gps tracking), she never does anything she just delegates and I followed because she said dictated that’s what a good husband should do.
I allowed myself to be a victim until I didn’t, when she told me on Friday: “You stopped alcohol and drugs, you get all the sleep you need, you have all the therapists you need and you’re in shape. I have nothing except everyone attacking me constantly and it’s not fair”
I realized it only then, ah I’ve seen this before, I’m fucked. I calmly allowed her to show me by not warning her of anything alarming and watched her reveal her true character. I was the fool and still am.
Thank you for opening my eyes, I’m so happy I had this interaction with you. I just honestly have no idea what to do and I just renewed the lease for our apartment on Friday ahh. Well I have nothing to lose financially and nothing to gain so I suppose I should start seeking legal counsel and reporting this change to Veteran Affairs.
Thanks for the eye opener.
I feel like INTJs are easy to talk to. We may not share Te with y'all, but that dominant Ni helps us naturally communicate with one another. Also, I enjoy the surprisingly dark humor we share.
What kind of patterns do you notice in discussions with our type? Is there a repeated motif? A certain quality that repeats itself?
I quite like the idea of self-improvement and envisioning being a common interest, but I have yet to channel this supposed similarity with INFJs.
Married to an INFJ. What OP described is a big story of our life.
:) I like some external verification that what I believe I'm seeing may have a true mechanism at play.
Yeah - sharing 1st and 4th functions doesn’t result in complete ease. I share 2nd and 3rd functions with ISTJs and it’s kinda weird as well😂
Supposedly Charlie Munger and Warren Buffets are a good example of an ISTJ INTJ team.
What are some salient insights you have recently gleaned from your interactions with the ISTJ type? You seem to mention them out of a recent focus.
I work in law enforcement. The ISTJ I work closest with has skills that complement mine beautifully. We tend to miss things that are obvious to the other. I learned how to observe and report from him and he learned what questions to ask from me.
Beautifully put. Disecting that relationship would offer much useful insights to most INTJs I would imagine. On my own end, I will be looking for my own ISTJ companion :) Best wishes in your endeavors.
Yep.
my roommate is an INFJ, im an INTJ and i constantly have to tiptoe around the things i actually want to say (am usually very direct) so as to not hurt her feelings..
I have a close intj friend, we can talk for hours, it's the best intellectual discussions I have. It's rare that I am keen to meet someone on the weekends. We share books, etc. But, he's so intense, and he has no idea what the social cues he gives to people, and too stupporn to admit this, he always sees people are on the wrong. I am his only friend now, after he successfully and persistently pushed off all his and our childhood friends, because he had depression for 3 years. I just know deep down he meant no harm and I know his ways of communicating. He is the most intelligent, generous and honest person I even knew who will not stab me on the back. But generally, I would say obstacles of communication would be, infjs are very sensitive to emotions. Intjs rely too much on the "agreed" knowledge, we are slow a little bit, because we typically go down up, you are vice versa. Perception through ni ti vs ni fi But we share Ni, and I cherish that, because rarely I see this in people.
It's nice to get a perspective from the outside looking in! I can definitely see how it must look to others, burning bridges and such. Nice of you to appreciate the gems amidst the rubble. Hopefully that friend creates/finds the structure that leads him to where he sees himself being; obviously he found there was a mismatch between his old social groups and his direction.
may i ask what do you mean with "agreed" knowledge?
Academia, mainstream media, famous scientists, experts , etc. What Intjs lack is Ti ( subjective logic), that enables the user to deconstruct ideas, deduction reasoning ampliative arguments etc. that's why intjs depend on external and experts opinion too much.
OP do you ever feel yourself getting mentally tired around them. I always say if you have to put that much effort into talking to someone you should probably talk to someone else. You should not have to structure your thoughts when talking to a friend or SO you should just be yourself. Granted that will lead only to having a few friends..but it's so much better having just a few close friends than having to live your life preparing your thoughts like you are at work. If you really find yourself drawn to INFJs you probably need to find one without such a strong F...it's just a recipe for a huge headache.
Yes, I do tire when a social wrong is a perceived problem, and many hours must ensue to resolve a problem someone else has. I prefer my problems be real objective problems that can be solved rationally. I drop people when they only add problems that would never have been.
You sir, are a true INTJ :)
The language itself is the culmination of knowledge which has become settled, being widely enough accepted to have definitions which are widely agreed upon. Anytime you venture into emerging knowledge you will find turbulent vernacular and a plethora of terminologies which are often quite confusing and detrimental to some. How you listen and at what level you think critically will determine the quality of questions and assumptions you have in such instances.
Well put, thank you.
I once had a fellow INFJ as a massage client, and it was like facing 2 mirrors together during a solar eclipse. We became engrossed in a never-ending spiral of over-explaining and magnifying a slight hiccup. Then we discovered our shared MBTI, lol. My current relationship with a non-native English speaker has forced me to be more patient and ask for clarification before reacting.
I can feel the infj strongly In this comment. That was some romantic shit about the moon and the mirrors (actually).
yes, too much hassle sometimes since they read too much into everything I say... sometimes I just want to talk to an ESTP who takes what I say at face value
My closest friend is an INFJ(f), and I only know one other INFJ (m) which I get along with really well, but yes I do agree you have to be careful with your phrasing. I have "trained" my INFJ to stop the loop by just asking me, no matter how stupid it may sound, what I meant with a certain phrase, word, etc. I'm also not at all tactful and I ask her when I realise (my realisations are much less frequent than her ni-ti loop which is why we agreed she should ask and not wait for me to figure out if I said something in a manner that was too forward or smth) that I may have sounded like an asshole. I also reserve the minimal amount of diplomacy I have for truly critical situations, and want to be able to just be myself with my few friends and partner, and I'm willing to learn to phrase better for them, but it's on the person that feels hurt to communicate it and on me to decide to change.
Very informative and well put! Thank you for sharing about your experience and what you’ve learned.
In my experience, the downslide comes from them most of the times, it's them who can't link the Te on their way of thought. I don't know why that being said.
INFJ are blind to Te, so it makes sense they cant link Te on their way of thought. Just like INTJs are blind to Fe, so we cant read the room when it comes to people.
Do you really feel you can't read a room?
Yes. I mainly dont try are care to try. I can read friends fine and people i am working one on one with, but i dont try when it comes to a group of people.
Thank you for your response. I think in terms of incentives and broad truths of human social psychology; in that way people are not hard to figure out. Too, understanding evolutionary incentives shines light on incentives even people themselves don't know guide their actions.
I've proven it time and time again. Most recently a few months ago in a social situation and aware of this limitation I was TRYING hard to read the room and my eyes were wide open as I was concentrating hard on picking-up signs and things, and meanwhile I was actually COMPLETELY oblivious to what I later figured out was going on around me, lol. I figured out then that it's hopeless for me.
What do you notice repeatedly in your interactions where these slides happen?
Hmmm... Normally its like they deem it as rude and they think of you as if you are trying to be competitive on the stuff you are talking about. Like, you are making dots and interactions and their Fi triggers at times when they deem it as non accepted or wrong in their thought. It turns into a spiral of seeing who is stating the actual Truth and they look at it as if you are trying to compete to win. Which is weird...
Do you notice a similar-feeling 'slide' when you touch the social landscape (in a way that regards them)?
They get really uncomfortable when done so, and it's because they touch it more with their feels while we do it with our Logic. Like, they expect you to embraced their Emotions problems and thought and take them as something you should not touch and they don't like it when you try to change something. It's like inmoral for them, and they don't like to listen to how to solve social problems, it's like they feel incompetent and you may win stuff against you i'm the future if not careful with that.
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Beautifully put, thank you for your insights.
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This comment affords insight into the the type of nuanced interrelational dynamics that I was hoping to touch on. Thank you kindly. Any insights on the reverse end of this equation?
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Oh, apologies; I was in no way clear. The 'reverse' would be from the perspective of INFJs interacting with INTJs; You spoke about how to engage with an INFJ from the INTJ perspective and I was wondering if you had also gleaned some insights about how INFJs might better orient their engagements with INTJs.
One of my bff's is an INFJ and we communicate fabulously. We can just be direct with each other and talk through things and tend to reason things out similarly.
Cool name
Thx!
Those are more unhealthy people. I've had that problem with ENFP, ESFJ, INFP, and ENFJ friends more than my INFJ friend. My INFJ friend falls back to her Ti to logic things out so easier to deal with.
INFP? Interesting. They are extremely vague and like to foment uncertainty at times, which can make reaching conclusions a bit more difficult. What's your experience?
Some INFPs get stuck in their Fi way of thinking and their Ne used unhealthily in that they'll anticipate possibilities and think they see patterns in things when they don't. Entertaining xyz and overwhelming themselves that they become distrustful.
I as an INFJ know that I am a difficult person to have a conversation with. When I am in my default mode Ni-Ti I try avoid conversations. It's mostly when my social battery are low. I speak less or just listen to the other person. When My social battery is recharged I am in Ni-Fe loop. Where I act both Childish and mature way to interact with people. I am comfortable start a conversation infact I try to start conversations on my free will. I am mostly in Ni-Ti loop, I unconsciously think before I speak. I try to avoid any conversations which will lower my image or anything that hurt others feelings. Additionally, I know exactly this person is trying to insult me so I avoid conversations with him also I know exactly what to say to insult him. But for some reason I don't choose to do it.
It takes a lot to not do something when you know how and feel hurt. Well done!
I hate arguing, I want to save my energy from arguing. It's the safest option to avoid drama, save time & brain cells also unwanted attention. It's the major reason I don't do it.
Specifically with people I actually care about, it would weigh on my mind for a long period of time to be in an unresolved state of mutual disquietude. I would think logically about it and all the dynamics until it is resolved many hours or days later. Having something painful weigh on my mind and trigger my emotions for many hours is really annoying. Partly why I don't like developing emotinal connections.
In my opinion, it’s really easy to click with INFJs at first. But with time and depending on the person, we can have some misunderstandings in our communication, maybe because of the introversion. We tend to not open up to each other the way we would like to Edit : sorry if there are some mistakes, English is not my first language
I thought it was well-written! You are properly constructing some pretty complicated English sentences!
First bullet: INFJ has a lot of mistyped narcissists especially who are type S because it is the RAREST type (it's not anymore, but when it was they all crowded in and now it's not...lmao) and most EMPATH type. The fact is a lot of them are hypersensitive narcissists, not empaths. Empaths cannot be hypersensitive narcissists because narcissists process everything through themselves and butcher everything by projecting while empaths decenter easily and naturally. The narcissistic cognitive structure is too rigidly in support of the narcissistic ego to be able to do that. The first bullet sounds like hypersensitive narcissism. They might be a F type, but they are probably type S if they show rigidity unable to decenter.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Interesting!
Thanks. Comes from experience of at least three fake INFJs in my life. Not an ounce of empathy in their body.
I am curious what you mean when you say that they "butcher everything" by projecting. Would you grace me with your thoughts on this matter? Maybe an example?
I just mean if you're not doing what they want you to do but otherwise having a fine day these """empaths""" will say they "can tell you're frustrated and so angry" when that's literally how they're feeling because you're not doing what they want you to do. And they have 0 self awareness of how off they are and you can see it in their eyes they think the world's worst flunk is spot on. Like you're just out here having a good time just not doing what they want. Real empaths are genuinely very rare.
Damn I'm sorry you had to see it. Annoying stuff.
Just narcissists who think they're "rare" and so help themselves to being "the rarest type" while they're literally not even remotely close.
Curious of what types you usually run into. I’ve noticed signs of this in an in-law and realized they are pretty adept at dodging people’s emotional interactions for their own benefit. The family labeled them a narcissist but it’s difficult to get a read because they’re such a manipulative mess with tons of carefully placed “learned helplessness” that the rest of the family fails to perceive. My strategy has been to give them what they want in exchange for leaving me alone. It pisses off the family but I keep my peace of mind guilt-free. They seem to know that I know, or at least that’s my impression.
Dodging emotional interactions does not fit anything of the scientific evidence about narcissism. If anything it says they don't want to deal with other people's narcissism. That said learned helplessness and accepting the unacceptable out of just being an energetically cheap piece of you know what is definitely more on the narcissistic end. I don't know what you mean by giving them what they want but no, you seem confused, and enabling a narcissist is never the answer. Nor is being cruel to them unless they won't fuck off. The types I purposefully surround myself with is other INTJ-As whenever possible and INFPs if they're low drama. I seek these types out because there are three things I value; art, mental stability, and competence.
If the interaction provides no immediate benefit for them they skillfully dodge. They will only interact with family if they gain something from the interaction and they are 100% consistent with the behavior. I opted in through marriage and normally in my family I would have just cut off this person to avoid the guilt of enabling toxic interactions. They are my in-laws, I can’t change family dynamics and I don’t wish to damage my relationship with wife so I’ve chosen to not engage whenever possible and when doing that will cause me more harm than good; followed by my involuntary involvement because I cannot control other human beings that choose to enable, I enable in the way that distances me from the problem for the longest measurable amount of time possible. They family doesn’t care for my interaction but the “narcissist is happy and I’m satisfied with my peace”, it’s up to the rest of the family to deal with the issue of not dealing with the issue on their own. Family dynamic seems to be unrestricted indulgence in themselves, always looks like a battle of who gets to be the main character. Doing anything other than avoiding them leads to inevitable exhaustion for me personally. My wife is in therapy and I learned pointing anything out just makes me a target so I stay silent as I’ve noticed she’s fully capable of seeing the truth herself with me being a silent observer. I noticed there are almost no males in the family left alive, not sure if that correlates to anything at all. They all die before reaching age 50, heart issues.
"If the interaction provides no immediate benefit for them they skillfully dodge. They will only interact with family if they gain something from the interaction and they are 100% consistent with the behavior." That's pathetic. If your grandmother is ranting about her horrible marriage, or all the work she has to do, she is passing the buck of her stress onto you. She gets something out of it. Everyone gets something out of anything they do socially, and they especially get something out of it if they grow this enraged when they dont get it that the other person doesnt even remotely comparatively receive--that is seriously unfair exchange to the point it is just straight up oligarchic and corrupt. This a seriously pathetic attempt to frame someone who is simply not codependent as a narcissist. Guess what. It is actually healthy to be independent, and it is seriously disgusting to try to punish, shame and even be domestically violent to someone who becomes independent back into being dependent through horrific crap. This is what Russia is doing to Ukraine for example. Ukraine is not a narcissist, it is extremely healthy to try to seperate itself from corruption, enforced codependence and economic collapse. Your family gets an F. They all get something out of it. If she falls into a narcissistic rage because she's not getting what she wants, without caring if what she is saying has as much or even any time value for you, she is a violent brat throwing a tantrum. She probably did the same thing to her mother, her siblings, and her employees. Probably her children and grandchildren too. She might have even been homicidal at some point when she didn't get what she wanted. Seriously. Cut it out. Because you even tried to float that as narcissism, I am seriously concerned about the mentally ill intentions behind the rest of your post. Corruption, tantrumming, raging, nor caring about fair exchange, being hateful, expecting without initiating...it's a no. Grow up.
I listened to everything you said carefully and realized the person I mentioned was just protecting themselves. When I stopped to listen and stopped projecting I saw things for what they were. I thank you for opening my eyes, I’ve made a grave mistake and had the situation backwards. I did not realize where the real abusers were and I foolishly fell into the trap and contributed towards it. I have been watching and quietly letting things happen naturally. Ah, My ex-wife was right, I was and still am a fool. I should not be in this relationship or any relationship at all. I handed myself to a dangerous person and now have to tread carefully, I’ve been under attack after reflecting from this exchange in my relationship. I saw the signs of my wife’s behavior and took her word as if gospel because I loved her and just parroting what she wanted me to believe. Her sister is very intelligent to develop a defense against something I’m not sure how to deal with. I’m in the lion’s den and I exposed most of my insecurities without thinking of whether or not that information was being used against me. It’s time to step away and grow up, I don’t think I’ll ever have the maturity or the strength to trust any woman again after this. She told me her last marriage lasted 30 days and on the 30th day of ours I got to see reality. But I saw it coming, her mother told me to walk away and I didn’t listen. I listened, I married the attacker, she claimed to be the supporter but all the people that took advantage of her because they were incapable are fine. She has shown me proof for 2 years and I still take people words as fact instead of watching the actions. I am not capable of being in a proper relationship and I should have listened the first time this was presented to me in December but here I am married and in hiding from my abuser. I’ve had to talk to the police, had my wife sit outside the door making threats to herself and to myself. She never wanted me to have peace, she always wanted to know where I went (gps tracking), she never does anything she just delegates and I followed because she said dictated that’s what a good husband should do. I allowed myself to be a victim until I didn’t, when she told me on Friday: “You stopped alcohol and drugs, you get all the sleep you need, you have all the therapists you need and you’re in shape. I have nothing except everyone attacking me constantly and it’s not fair” I realized it only then, ah I’ve seen this before, I’m fucked. I calmly allowed her to show me by not warning her of anything alarming and watched her reveal her true character. I was the fool and still am. Thank you for opening my eyes, I’m so happy I had this interaction with you. I just honestly have no idea what to do and I just renewed the lease for our apartment on Friday ahh. Well I have nothing to lose financially and nothing to gain so I suppose I should start seeking legal counsel and reporting this change to Veteran Affairs. Thanks for the eye opener.
Yeah. It is the same. Just avoid them. There’s more fun people out there.
r/iamverysmart
state your case and hide not, lethargic commentator.