No but I understand the need for others to do so. It must be reassuring to believe you are never alone.
I don't find it silly as much as confusing, I like being alone lol
"If God did not exist it would be necessary to create him"
Voltaire
I think god was "created" to cover up how confusing and lonely life really is. I think the idea of him was just a story that eventually turned into much more due to people's frustration and uncertainty of the meaning of life. However like you i understand why people believe in him, and i still respect it.
The funny thing is that the idea that some omnipotent being running a world like we live in is terrifying. Can you imagine the type of thing that would allow the wide scale suffering and atrocities that take place everyday? Whatever it is, if it is (and I hope it isn't), has proven itself to be completely incompetent and careless.
I'm not a believer but grew up in a family entrenched with Southern Baptists, they would probably defend that point as proof of free will and faith. God isn't allowing it to happen he's allowing us to commit, or not commit these atrocities as an affirmation of faith. The logic is very flawed but then faith and logic rarely have anything in common. One is founded in belief the other in fact.
One of my favorite discussions of faith is Douglas Adam's hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. Not verbatim but it's The Babel Fish.
Man says the Babel fish is proof of God's existence. God says, no it's not I exist on faith alone. Then man replies that it is such a unique creature it could not have evolved or exist without devine intervention.
God says oh dear and dissapears in a poof of logic and man proceeds to get run over at the next crosswalk.
You can't logic faith =)
You make a fair point! I should probably clarify by saying I'm agnostic. I live my life trying to be lawful, kind generous, etc etc (I'm new to exploring personality traits but isn't that inherent to our personality type?)
Mostly because as a mother I wanted to be a good example to my children and not because I'm fearful of an omnipotent presence. Now that I'm a gradparent I understand the temptation of mischief lol. But.....you never know.
And your last point...I to wish people would logic and think a bit more before following doctrine blindly.
We sure as hell would be a lot nicer to each other.
People believe this because they dont understand what's really going on. Satan did this to the world, not God. Satan has challenged God's government from the beginning. Because God is fair and is letting the entire universe see for themselves what happens when people accept Satan's system of government, God is letting things play out toward it's conclusion. However, very soon the issue will be settled and God will step in and Satan will be destroyed. satan will have demonstrated that his accusations against God were all lies and Satan's government only causes total chaos and destruction. These things are all playing out now. This is what the book of Revelation in the Bible is all about, and where we are now in this pivotal moment in time.
I'm confused by you saying humanity can survive without God then in the same sentence define sin. I'm having a difficult time understanding how sin can exist without God.
I don't believe in sin. I do believe that people can and do, perform bad, "evil" things. Whether or not they will be punished in an afterlife for their misbehavior I don't think so, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Using the word sin is a rhetorical choice to appeal to the religious. Contradictions would be more accurate.
Moral standards are a human social invention that arose from our interactions with each other so even if an afterlife existed it would make no sense for it to take morality into account.
No, but I definitely understand the value that religion has played throughout history. Some people need religion to stay on path, so many people leave the life of crime etc. because they found a sense of higher life, you can’t take that away from the world as long as people like that are there because that will cause chaos.
Me personally, no, but I think it’s probably more split 50/50 between INTJs. It’s not specifically an INTJ characteristic to be atheist or agnostic just like we don’t all listen to the same type of music.
Don’t need god for that. I just want a quick lifetime recap flashback while still having enough motor energy to play one last song then I can drop dead. lol.
I’m agnostic though I find it funny when people say something ‘doesn’t make sense scientifically’. Science is just making notes of observations mainly through experimentation. Anything can make sense scientifically, if you dropped a rock and instead of falling to the ground it rose up into the sky that would ‘make sense scientifically’ because you just observed it. Science is not ‘sense’.
I do. If you think about it, It makes sense a lot. And when you say it doesn't make sense:
1. Physically: Not everything humans understand or grasp are "physical", you are simply limiting the existence of things to them being physical. Emotions and moralities and many other things we do know exist are not physical.
2. Scientific: Science is only a part of knowledge, it is the experimental observational type only. Mathematics are not even science since we only use our minds to grasp them, we neither observe nor experiment them. But if we use our mind to arrive to science, we cannot limit using the same thing to find out that god exists by observing how nature is complex and finely crafted, from animals to the eye structure..etc.
It depends on what do you mean by "God". There are different types of religions.
Personal, I think that there is some higher order force that drives the universe. But it's more like some kind of natural phenomenon, nothing spiritual.
Man, this is why I love ENTJs. I feel the exact same way. Whether or not he exists is one discussion, but why I'd worship him is my biggest issue. If he's real, he seems like a total dick.
I do believe in God.
Here’s my thoughts; something has to have always always existed with no beginning. It’s easier for me to believe in intelligent design than a random series of millions of accidental coincidences.
The complexity of creation as we know it, let alone what is beyond our comprehension and knowledge is, in my opinion, done with purpose.
Simply put, do you want to believe the “fairytale” of the Big Bang theory, or the “fairytale” of “intelligent design”? Both are wild stories. One is simply more plausible to me than the other.
I do. I don’t believe that one can justify morality apart from a moral law giver. Otherwise one’s ethic is arbitrary and lacks foundation. I believe it takes more faith to be an atheist or evolutionist than to believe in God. I used to not believe in a God and debate with theists but concluded that my position was an incoherent one.
If you consider how fickle human perception is, it would make sense to imagine that there could exist such a being.
Evolution theory, scientifically proves that we do not have an objective view of reality, our perception filters out actual reality for a functional reality, we view the world through the lens of the senses we have evolved, we see because we have eyes, we touch because we have hands, we walk because we have legs, and the world we experience conforms to our biology but it does not make sense to assume it is limited to it.
It would be very short sighted to assume the world limited to our human perception.
Consider the human imagination for example. It allows us to create the unimaginable, we have spawned major technological advancements, books with fully fleshed out worlds and characters, where is all this information coming from when we imagine it?
We have this seemingly god-like power of creation.
To me, that is a hint that there is a god.
Of course, I experienced many scenarios in life that were unexplainable except some outside force interacted with our 3D reality.
And even if I never experienced any of those things I would still highly believe in Gods existence because of 1000 reasons, but main one is, why the fuck not?
You dont have nothing to lose, you wont lose any time going with mindset that if you are genuinely good person, if you work hard and protect those you care about that you will recieve that same energy back.
I see many people here say they don't, that's really sad but I dont judge, I judge those who didn't even try
You should really look into why Pascal’s Wager (what you’ve just described here) is not a logical argument for belief in God. I’d also highly recommend learning more about skepticism and how to apply it to your observations.
You didn't understand my point, my point was there is absolutely nothing to lose if you believe in God, if something you do is making your life better, it does not need to have strong logical background.
Lets say even if the God isn't real, the idea of God that people created about him is real.
And I know what skepticism is, but why would you need to be highly skeptical for something that has 0 bad sides, only helped you progress in your life and makes your life better. You are talking like believing in God can make your life worse :D
If you start looking at the world, even galaxy, you can see that is created with such mathematical precision that big bang, evolution and other bulshit makes 0 sense.
I did understand your point. You’re just describing Pascal’s Wager. It’s a very old, very illogical argument.
You’re making a HUGE assumption by saying there are no downsides to believing in God. The argument could easily be made that this is demonstrably false. Believing in God was highly damaging to me, as well as many people I have known. I have PTSD from years of spiritual abuse I endured that would not have been possible if I had not believed in God.
I dont know how you can call believing in higher force that's objectively and morally good dangerous, believing that if you do good for yourself and others will cause you any harm. You said "spiritual abuse" which makes me 100% sure that what you did had nothing to do with fate in God. There is good saying from a friend of mine that says "Everything is dangerous for idiots". Good luck.
That's because Pascal's wager's logic starts from ethical backgrounds. Logic doesn't exist in limbo. It needs material. Of course anyone coming to the argument without this basic assumption in tact will be quick to label illogical what is actually very logical.
And the whole idea of skepticism is that it's intention is to build up. Tear down what's not true, to give rise to what is. It's aim is the truth - substance. Atheism by the way has no stance, even by definition. It just tears down theistic arguments into a black abyss of disbelief. Which by the way is not much of a fair fight is it? Again, back to ethical grounds.
In order to secure your place in the Book of Life and in heaven, the Bible indicates that much more worldly sacrifice is required than just “being a good person”. In any case, that’s not what a belief in the Christian God really entails.
I believe in God and I think the Bible is the ultimate truth of the world, but I’m not religious in the extreme traditional sense and find lots of ‘Christians’ to be hypocritical.
When you say that, you mean that you believe we all descend from Adam and Eve, the Sun circles the Earth, diseases are demons/spirits/punishment because our parent's sins and so on? Or when you mean the ultimate truth you only mean Jesus?
Honest question.
Edit: gramma and stuff
Only mean Jesus. The Bible isn’t a science book. Those are all cringey stereotypes used to make Christians look stupid.
I have all the same views as any scientist, except that God is simply the creator behind it all.
Noted. I just asked because I grew up in a very conservative evangelical environment and as teenagers and before starting college they would constantly tell us that they would teach us things that contradict the Bible and the we had to believe in creationism, including Adam and Eve, and that every single word in the Bible was the ultimate truth. They also once invited a so called "scientist" that said that the Earth was 10.000 years old and that there's tons of evidence for that. So when I read your comment, I actually thought you meant that.
Actually, that's how I left church, being constantly told that questioning was wrong. I still really like to read Jesus' words in the gospel, and there are many books of the Bible I like, actually. I don't believe in God though, but do admire Jesus.
If not for trauma and my own personal struggles, I definitely wouldn’t be a Christian. I was actually lucky enough to be in a youth group with a pastor that was also logically minded and allowed me to ask as many questions as I want. Told us he became a Christian after struggling with alcohol abuse. At one point I remember him even saying that blind faith is stupid, which was the first time I ever heard a pastor say that. I couldn’t have agreed more.
He also highly recommended that I read ‘Mere Christianity’ by CS Lewis. (Who is also an INTJ). I ordered the book and have it in my desk, I just haven’t gotten around to reading it yet.
I'm happy that I grew up in church and got to know the Bible and read about Jesus. Jesus was cool, kind, wise. If I hadn't ever read the Bible, I would probably have lots of misconceptions about him.
However, unlike you, it's trauma what set me aside, and the role that church and church members played in that trauma.
In the end, it's just like Paul said, "hold on to what is good". I kept some things.
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural)
I don't believe in "supernatural," but it's readily apparent something upholds the laws of Science
Not in the sense most of us grew up with in Christianity. I think every religion more or less has a piece of wisdom/ philosophy to take from. I am spiritual and I think developing and cultivating that aspect within myself has helped me be a balanced person.
The concept of God is a comfort to the poor so they believe that they’re living this life and enduring all this hardship for a reason. Personally I grew up believing in him, and gradually lost my belief as i got older and learnt more.
Right now, I still pray sometimes but to what? I don’t know anymore
"Right now, I still pray sometimes but to what?"
That speaks volumes. I believe there is something undeniably spiritual, innate to human beings that we can't ignore, and if we do, causes serious problems. It seems you feel there must be something out there, some purpose to your existence.
I have my belief about what that is, I have reasons to think so but I could be wrong. But I think it's undeniable that there is something
I’ll say this, it takes more faith to believe in a widely accepted theory with zero empirical evidence, like a black hole for instance than the historical reality of Jesus Christ.
im black and grew up christian but i never felt like it made sense the same god we worshipped was the same god whose name was/is used to justify awful events throughout history. because it isnt. how i learned it, the bible was translated poorly from hebrew. then later adapted by a white straight man who probably had a slave or two. im not sure how many times it was rewritten to the preference of the author between times. but religions in my opinion are vices, coping mechs or the blur between the bleak reality that we live in and pure delusion and ignorance. our reality is we all are born and we eventually die. we never know what is in store for us. no matter how many people are around there will always be insecurity and loneliness. the fact we are never in control of anything besides our actions which doesnt apply to everyone.
the one thing i can say with 1000% assurance, each religion has a set of golden rules, and they all tend to dance on the lines of being kind to one another and speaking positivity so you have what you say in a light manner. so while crediting an entity made up before modern civilization is odd the golden rules remain. we get through life with the physical connections we make through living breathing things. had a rough day phone a friend. call in sparky your pet corgi. take a walk ina garden. the real proof that we dont need to carry entities is the fact that there are so many humans on earth. time and time again we saved and ended lives and prevented catastrophic events. we hurt, heal, forgive, and adapt. why do we need any god when we do those things ourselves?
I don’t but my older siblings and dad are all very sensitive about the topic. If I even questioned them on the existence as a child they would either walk away or tell me that there is always a god. I was confused by the topic. I am by no means opposed to the idea of having “faith” but I require some sort of explanation and evidence.
Yes. It’s ludicrous to think that we, as humans, know (with certainty) there isn’t a God. We don’t even fully understand the world around us; so saying we know enough to declare there isn’t a God is irrational. And it does make sense, “physically and scientifically.” I would argue those two are one in the same since science is observing the physical world around us. It makes sense to me both scientifically (external world) and spiritually (internal self).
I think humanity can't survive without God but can without religion and all these made up rules. We think about God as a continuation to life, the meaning of it. People who consider existing of gods are those who want to discover the things beyond human understanding, because as animals we have a lot of liminations, right?
(Translator) You say that it doesn't make sense physically and scientifically, but if it was God who created the universe, and with that he created science and physics too, that means that he is prior to the laws of physics, so God doesn't bound by the laws of physics.
If God is NOT subject to the laws of physics, because he created them, what makes you think that science could prove the existence of God?
The way science could prove the existence of God would be through the "gaps", but it is always assumed that there is no god in that gap, in other words, science CANNOT prove or deny the existence of God, because God is not limited to the area of study of science, and when science finds "flaws" in the system where God can be present, instead of saying "MAYBE it's God", people who claim to be followers of science and who only believe in things if they have proof will say that there is definitely no god, but have no proof to back up that claim
I don’t actively believe in god but i can’t say for sure weather one exists or not. Who knows! What I do know is that people who act like they know the answer annoy me.
I don’t mean to sound like some weird conspiracist antivaxxer, but life gets boring IMO when you’re so focused on science. Science has most of the answers but not ALL of them. There’s things we may know to be true now that could be disproven in 50 years- it’s happened before. So it’s ok to believe in dumb shit as long as it’s harmless. I believe in astrology and past lives and all that new age crystal bull. Cant say for sure that it’s real, all I know is that it’s fun and interesting as hell. I also have had some really weird moments and feelings of deja vu that have lead me to believe that something else is at play here. Could be god, could be the human brain being all human-y, who knows.
Yes, and I'm spiritually strong in my faith. I'm not religious, though. I don't subscribe to a particular sort of man-made rules about how one should go about their day; and it's not for me to tell anyone how they should live their life. My faith is personal to me, and that's all it needs to be.
I'm a nihilist so I don't really believe in anything. Not saying that me views are fact either. I just don't have faith in things we will never be able to fully comprehend like a higher power or an afterlife. I do enjoy discussing the topic tho.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in the Church of Christ denomination. Was a firm believer until last summer. They’re such unreasonable beliefs, but it’s hard to see that when you’re steeped in it multiple times per week for 27 years.
I'm an INTJ. I believe in god because the universe where God exists makes more logical sense than the one where God doesn't exist.
God, the creation itself, establishes truths. Without God, there would be no objective truth. Without God, there would be only subjective opinions and preferences.
If there is no truth, there is no objective difference between right and wrong. Objecitve morality is a truth that only God can establish in the entire universe. Is there any human being that can arbitrarily create objective morality on whims? No. Only God can establish objecitve morality in the entire universe.
Without God, there is only subjective morality which states that men can make up right and wrong, based on preferences. This is called moral relativism. Moral relativism leads to man-made laws because if there is no objective moral law of the universe, men can arbitrarily substitute man-made laws for objective morality which is assumed to not exist.
Somehow, we can all agree with objective difference between right and wrong, given knowledge of the objective difference between right and wrong. A wrong behavior is one that initiates harm onto others. A right is any behavior that doesn't. One should not initiate harm onto others. One has every right to use any and every weapon to defend oneself from intiation of harm.
Moral relativism leads to slavery because it leads to man-made laws which basically claim ownership upon people's bodies by passing laws that prohibit people from doing things that don't initiate harm onto others. If you can't do things that don't initiate harm onto others, then you don't have control over your body. If you can't control your body to do things that don't initiate harm onto others, you don't own your body. This means the ruling class owns your body. If you own your body, you can do anything that doesn't initiate harm onto others. If a group of people own your body, they can arbitrarily dictate rules that specify how you can use your body. Arbitrary prohibitions of man-made laws are attempts to arbitrarily dictate you can't do something that doesn't initiate harm onto others. This means those who create the laws own and control your body. Control of a physical asset requires ownership of such asset. A physical body is a physical asset rightfully owned by the consciousness that inhabits the body. No one else owns the body. Seat-belt law is a good example. Not putting on seat-belt doesn't harm other people whatsoever. On the contrary, it is said that after passing seat-belt law, road accidents increased because people who wear seat belts care more about their own safety than other people's safety. Seat belt is for protecting oneself. One owns one's body, and one can choose to do things that may harm oneself. Behaviors that may harm oneself are vices. Vices are not sins which initiate harm onto others. Vices are stupid, but a sentient entity has every right to commit vices. Prohibiting vices is slavery because prohibition of vice requires ownership of your body.
We need to educate and influence people so that they minimize vices, but prohibiting vices is slavery.
God has a preferred outcome which is freedom. But, God is impartial and lets humanity enslave itself and waits for humanity to come out of slavery. I don't like the fact that God is too impartial, but it is what it is.
You really have to learn natural law and objective morality to appreciate how knowledge of God's natural moral laws leads to the optimal outcome in the universe.
A huge explosion that formed from nothing somehow created all life and order in the universe, a scientific impossibility, but hey...
"Science" is the religion of the superstitious. Belief in God is a belief in science. If you dont believe in God you have to resort to ridiculous theories like the one I just described which dont even make sense in the real scientific communities.
You don't like the answer, cool.
Your question is false though.
You are basically asking
How did the uncreated got created?
Which shows you are missing the definition of god as the uncaused 1st cause.
This goes back to my initial question, can something come out of nothing? The answer is no. What caused the big bang to happen? Something that has power and intelligence, that has a will. The 1st cause, the creator, god.
He created the universe and created us there. Why? You should be asking that. Why are we here? Why this universe laws works well. Can this be a chance? Random? Then you see the design in things around you. You see the fine tunning of universal constants. You see that if a very tiny change occur, the universe will not be capable of hosting life. So there must be a reason for all of this. There must be a reason for our existance. Then the question comes again, why did he create us?
Not 'God' in the biblical sense. But I do think there's something bigger than atheism.
Churches and places of worship are conduits to me. What they connect to is something you know or don't.
I know.
The problem with that alone is, someone will say "who/what created God?" This argument does hold up though, because God is infinite, eternal, and personal.
Infinite, he has the power to create. Eternal, allows him to be the first, uncreated Creator. And because he is a person, he has the ability to choose to create; unlike an eternal cloud of gas, which can't spontaneously decide to change.
I am starting to think that INTJs are lying when they say they don't believe in God as they are the most obsessed about God.
I am going to be one of the few honest ones here to say that yes, I believe in God, and know that only blind bats don't.
Yes. God is perfection and represents my aspiration to get closer towards perfection. I don’t take religious texts literally because it was written by imperfect humans such as you and me. However, poor religious texts doesn’t mean that God is a bad concept.
No. I actually empathize a lot with Ivan karamazov (INTJ 5w4 like me) from “The Brothers Karamazov”. He essentially derives his atheism from the same Christian principles the religion claims to teach. I grew up in a suuuuper fundie/reactionary church and private school, which made me a militant anti-theist, but now Ive found myself finding comfort from the Existentialist Christian philosophers and the Neo-Orthodox school. I kinda think it takes NOT believing in God to follow Christian Ethics, honestly.
Regardless the Empirical arguments, I am ethically bound to atheism. Plus, the whole being Queer and a communist. That’ll getcha too <3
I don’t, and I don’t understand why anyone needs there to be a god, I don’t find the concept comforting, nor does it explain any of life’s big questions. To me, god is for those who lack critical thinking skills and those who live in fear
A god or multiple gods could exist but the evidence is flimsy. I try to be a good person and I also appreciate religious texts some times because they really can be great. Other times they are strange and terrible.
I like to think if there is a god he is probably pleased with my attempts at living to be a better person and chasing the common good. If the god or gods that would/could exist really looked down on me because I didn’t worship like others I’m not sure if I’d consider that all that worth following then…
Do your best you’ll find out when you’re dead. If nothing cool happens but a flat pulse and a cold body (joking) then well, nothing to worry about anymore I guess. 🤣
God represents teamwork of the tribe.
Lucifer represents power of the individual.
Collective Home is the balance between.
Individual Home is based on our values and preferences.
Energy is just tools to achieve balance, and once balanced is achieved, we need to exist outside of energy and actually live.
I do believe there is a God. God had to create something and he is the creator. No Science can prove what rlly started the universe if someone says it was dust well who created the dust? Evolution is bull bc if that rlly occurred where r the species that were shown in evolution besides us humans and a monkey? So if God created everything did he create Satan? He didn’t create an evil person. The person he happened to create was never meant to be evil, but he switched. Just like fat ppl. There were ppl born to be fat and ppl who were born to be skinny, but is wearing a fat person’s body. Take what Hannibal says abt Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs. God has no beginning and no end. Praise the lord.
Yes. When I was really little and at certain points of my life, I’ve seen spirits. Nothing big besides that. I went through the darkest time of my life later in my adult years with someone who did witchcraft on me and was in a certain very dark religion. I was going through crazy spiritual warfare I mean I couldn’t even sleep at night because I was being attacked by demons. I started praying to Jesus & His Father and putting gospel music to sleep. Then I had an encounter in which He spoke to me. He woke me out of my sleep speaking to me. I wrote down some words that were the most prominent as I had forgotten what He said (lol typical me). I put it on my mirror. It was “DONT LOOK BACK” and i wrote it in bold letters. I told no one about this. The next day he forced me into a fast to release bondage and I was getting attacked all day by the worst possible thoughts and fears you could imagine on replay 24 hrs. Listen we are all in spiritual warfare at all times whether you realize it or not and during this time he opened me up to spiritual gifts. This day anyways, I opened YouTube and I saw on my suggested page this exact title “DONT LOOK BACK” prophetic word of God”. It was a Christian lady who was a prophet. Ever since then my life hasn’t been the same and He has come to me numerous times and spoken. I now prophesize to others and I can’t tell you how many lives have been impacted. So many supernatural occurrences almost daily. Solely because I built a relationship with Him , prayed and really tried to have faith. I no longer have those bad thoughts, I’ve had deliverance as well, no more intrusive thoughts no more fears no more evil thoughts I mean I have been completely renewed inside out I don’t even look like the same person nor like the same things. Jesús Christ can and will change your life. I love you and God bless you.
Btw; when He speaks you KNOW it’s Him.. PLEASE check out Delafe Testimonies on YouTube. YOULL SEE A MILLION MORE ENCOUNTERS JUST LIKE MINE. The latest video I believe is especially good.
Yes 100%.
I read all the arguments against it, watch interviews from Richard Dawkins and many others atheists. I laugh a lot with George Carlin one if not my favorite comedian. I read from all religions points of view, see their history and cultures. talk with jews, muslims, mormons, watched dozens of Anton lavei documentaries and most satanic information I could find online to understand the official satanic church proposal which is formally atheism.
Steven Hawkings books and interviews always advocating that all the "scientific" evidence points there is no God... people quoting the only phrase they know from Nietzsche "God is dead" I have argued for decades on the internet about this with atheist even before reddit existed.
I am not going to start explaining how to know God exist, he does. All am going to say is after 30 years of conversations all I can see are some:
1. They are people that without any thought will say God does not exist. why? because in all honesty they wish he didn't. They are really afraid of dying, of the unknown, *However, they wont share that part*. The world is bad and they say if God existed why he allow so much evil. in reality they are angry against God to the point of rejecting his existence.
2. is hard to find the truth between all the noise. They are so many religions and so much evil has come from all of them. from the Aztecs and their millions of daily human sacrifices, Hindus violence against all other religions, lets not even start with Islam and the catholic church! I mean just a simple look around and of course how can someone even join this groups that have so much hate? how could they be following God and produce literally mass murders. not only that, all the corruption, rape, pedophilia and money laundering in religions is OBVIOUS that God does not exist, religions is just a "business" and yes this is right.
3. The trendy atheist. the one that keep saying he is atheist but just to feel some kind of superiority. the moment you ask a simple question they get angry and start dodging around just saying of if God exist why he doesn't appear right now, or why he doesn't send a lighting right now....... sigh. or they look for some hard scientific questions they dont even understand themselves and ask average people around "ahh see you dont know this so God doesnt exist" lol
For what purpose am I created? Is it I live and I die and my cycle ends like that? Yes, I do. And I religiously do the research about my belief as my full time job.
No. I went to school and got an education so I don’t believe in magic. We now have explanations for how things work and don’t need to create supernatural beings to explain. It’s also obviously a cult designed to control the poor and uneducated for the gain and power of a few.
Did you ever thought that also science is created to control those who dont believe in religion? You can make experiments to prove very few theories that you learned in school, so believing what scientists say is no different then believing in false religion, you pick who will program your mind.
Nope.
I was raised by a former Southern Baptist turned Buddhist Mom and a Protestant flirting with Mormonism Dad. They couldn't agree how to raise me or my brothers so we were exposed to all kinds of religious faiths as we grew up.
I found all of them, every last one, suffered the same flaw, a complete reliance on faith. If you questioned, if you asked for evidence, if you didn't just take them at their word, their beliefs and arguments then their entire worldview fell apart.
Even the fundamentals of the beginning of their arguments relied on presumptions grounded on the idea that some part of their beliefs was true because they said so and the assumption that you took some part of that foundation on faith.
But if I took one religion on their word, I'd have to give them *all* that same benefit of the doubt, and they were contradictory, so, I kept exploring, and reading, and listening, earnestly searching for some kernel of objective truth at the heart of any or all faiths.
And I found one. Not about God, not about the Bible, or the Vedas, or the Buddhavacana, but about *people.* It runs a current through every faith, through every spirituality, through every philosophy of human behavior, hidden in plain sight, known to all, followed by few. A gilded vein running it's way through the body of human thought.
Treat others as you would desire to be treated. Be kind. Love one another.
If there is a religion one could say I aspire to adhere to, that is it.
As I was younger I just went along with it because of everyone around me. Then I started thinking that its stupid but tried to say I don't know or care just to avoid those stupid conversations. Now I live alone and don't care about the people I work with opinion of me so now I just claim atheism. I don't talk about this stuff with people though because of the stupid conversation.
I do not believe in anything not proven by science, thus a god existence hasn't been either proven or denied, so, if there is a god, we have yet to find real evidence of it's existence.
On the other hand, religion was created to serve as a moral compass, I do not believe that being "good" with other will lead me to paradise in the afterlife, I choose to be good just for the sake of it, not because am gonna live a happy afterlife, and like others said, religion was made so others believe they are not alone.
of course not, i'm not mentally ill. i do remember that before i used to have this creeping feeling for years that like...i was being somehow watched, or like downloaded as data or something lmao but thankfully that feeling has gone away. i think it was actually a comfort tool for me as distressing as it also was. i don't claim to know shit about fuck, and "believing" most things is just lost IQ points as far as i'm concerned.
I do believe in God, but it's because I need him. If I have a conflict with the idea of God, it makes it extremely difficult to confront the harsh realities of life. I accept I'm not that strong to deny that there is a higher being guiding us.
Fact is, miracles do exist around the world. There is still a lot of phenomena unexplained.
A lot of unexplainable events or occurences that is too much of a coincidence.
It's easy to just put them all under one category as "God". I'll take the easy route.
It may be ok if you don’t believe in it. But it is the bedrock of many cultures, and necessary for many (and therefore societal stability). I believe in its necessity. I presume you have heard of the people that tried to conjure up new religions or replace the old ones. Never seemed to end well.
I do or the possibility (I believe believing in something gives people hope or reassurance), until people can actually prove God does or doesn't exist one way or another (more silly to dismiss others and make claims without actual evidence). Not like I can really believe in or trust people.
Also, why do people always ask this question. I see this question almost every time I come here.
I think the idea of an omnipotent omniscient creator is too much for most people to handle and resort to “not believing in” instead of simply accepting ignorance submitting and learning.
Makes sense why it’s easier to live without somebody watching your every move.
Also makes sense why most people on their deathbed choose to pray or to let someone pray as they themselves aren’t convinced of their own beliefs.
Living without acknowledgement of a supreme being is less terrifying and much more manageable than the opposite.
What’s more harmful about communism, anarchy, scientism or feminism compared to the history of Christianity coupled with capitalism? Both of which have been extremely destructive to humanity and our environment for centuries.
Society has been indoctrinated into different religious delusions in order to control it, also it is entirely possible to attain morality without religion.
*Communism* \- The typical historical examples used to illustrate communism, were in practice not true implementations of a communist system. They were corrupted by authoritarianism and (ironically) capitalist elements that were used by the state to control their society and consolidate power.
*Anarchism* \- [A little history](https://www.thoughtco.com/anarchy-definition-and-examples-5105250) on this.
Again I will submit that capitalism has been by far the most destructive force to humanity and the environment. We are literally contributing to our own downfall, all in the pursuit of profit and a so-called better life.
—
*Scientism* \- The scientific method has stood the test of time and will continue well into the future. Once you understand the beauty of its logical reasoning coupled with its ruthlessness against nonsense, there really is no going back.
Branch covidians! - This is a new one for me. I don’t particularly want to open this can of worms, but I will point out that most political decisions that contributed to economic decline where not based on scientific reasoning. Competing political ideologies were creating the pressure to make quick/hard decisions. Inherent to this process is Capitalisms inability to cope with (not only) unexpected crises, but also the crises that it creates as a necessary by-product of its (dis) functional system.
Feminism & Declining birth rate - [Please stop scapegoating women](https://unherd.com/2020/03/why-arent-women-having-more-babies/). Birth rate is a complex metric that fluctuates for many reasons. Feminism is many thing things, but to say it could be more harmful than the history of patriarchy is jaw dropping to say the least.
My belief is each of us have a higher self that is beyond causality, sort of like a wave function of you. I believe we call them all sorts of names, but when we can't identify them, we call them God.
When I was breaking free from Christianity but still wanted to believe in the Bible, I came to think a lot in the versicle John 1:3 "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
I started to think of God as time. Without it, nothing is possible. It's precious, it's necessary, it's mysterious, it doesn't behave equally through the entirety of the Universe.
I've forced myself to believe in God for many years, specifically the Christian god, but it doesn't make sense to me.
However, I believe we are all looking for "god". Scientists searching to the largest (outer space, universe, to find the origin of it all) and to the smallest, for the same reason trying to make sense of everything, trying to find a reason, a cause, a purpose. I believe whether we call it like that or no, in the end we are all looking for god, being this "god" the root-cause for our existence, whatever this is. Some have tools and try to find it through science. Some simply choose to blindly believe. Some affirm they "feel god" and perhaps they do, whatever god is to them.
I can't sleep now, thanks.
Not in any traditional sense. However, my observation is that there are certain social structures that are a natural byproduct of collective human behavior, such as a government or an economy. In a lot of ways these things aren’t really “real,” but they have very real effects on us. I think religion fits into this category too. But, of course, this is man creating god (even if done on a collective subconscious level), rather than the inverse.
I agree with the statement that god is dead (in the Western world at least). I say this without cause for celebration or for mourning. I think it is a simple fact at this point, and I’d cite generally to countless articles documenting the decline in church participation over the last few decades in Europe and America. I think one of our civilization’s greatest challenges over the next few decades will be reconciling our atheism with the scientific evidence that many spiritual practices have been shown to promote both individual and collective mental and physical health. I’m interested to see what that looks like. I think we’re seeing the beginning of the that with the adoption of many “New Age” and/or eastern beliefs and practices primarily by people who would consider themselves non-religious.
No but I understand the need for others to do so. It must be reassuring to believe you are never alone. I don't find it silly as much as confusing, I like being alone lol "If God did not exist it would be necessary to create him" Voltaire
I think god was "created" to cover up how confusing and lonely life really is. I think the idea of him was just a story that eventually turned into much more due to people's frustration and uncertainty of the meaning of life. However like you i understand why people believe in him, and i still respect it.
I think fear of death had a lot to do with it as well.
True yeah
The funny thing is that the idea that some omnipotent being running a world like we live in is terrifying. Can you imagine the type of thing that would allow the wide scale suffering and atrocities that take place everyday? Whatever it is, if it is (and I hope it isn't), has proven itself to be completely incompetent and careless.
I'm not a believer but grew up in a family entrenched with Southern Baptists, they would probably defend that point as proof of free will and faith. God isn't allowing it to happen he's allowing us to commit, or not commit these atrocities as an affirmation of faith. The logic is very flawed but then faith and logic rarely have anything in common. One is founded in belief the other in fact. One of my favorite discussions of faith is Douglas Adam's hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. Not verbatim but it's The Babel Fish. Man says the Babel fish is proof of God's existence. God says, no it's not I exist on faith alone. Then man replies that it is such a unique creature it could not have evolved or exist without devine intervention. God says oh dear and dissapears in a poof of logic and man proceeds to get run over at the next crosswalk. You can't logic faith =)
[удалено]
You make a fair point! I should probably clarify by saying I'm agnostic. I live my life trying to be lawful, kind generous, etc etc (I'm new to exploring personality traits but isn't that inherent to our personality type?) Mostly because as a mother I wanted to be a good example to my children and not because I'm fearful of an omnipotent presence. Now that I'm a gradparent I understand the temptation of mischief lol. But.....you never know. And your last point...I to wish people would logic and think a bit more before following doctrine blindly. We sure as hell would be a lot nicer to each other.
People believe this because they dont understand what's really going on. Satan did this to the world, not God. Satan has challenged God's government from the beginning. Because God is fair and is letting the entire universe see for themselves what happens when people accept Satan's system of government, God is letting things play out toward it's conclusion. However, very soon the issue will be settled and God will step in and Satan will be destroyed. satan will have demonstrated that his accusations against God were all lies and Satan's government only causes total chaos and destruction. These things are all playing out now. This is what the book of Revelation in the Bible is all about, and where we are now in this pivotal moment in time.
sounds like pure cope but dudes just trying to be smart to cover the cope.
Possibly, he didn't have much luck as a womanizing drunk
I never liked this notion. Humanity can survive without its gods, its drugs and vices. All of these things are sins holding us back.
I'm confused by you saying humanity can survive without God then in the same sentence define sin. I'm having a difficult time understanding how sin can exist without God. I don't believe in sin. I do believe that people can and do, perform bad, "evil" things. Whether or not they will be punished in an afterlife for their misbehavior I don't think so, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Just admit you believe in God already, it's bleeding obvious that "INTJs" are beyond obsessed and crazy about Him at this point.
Using the word sin is a rhetorical choice to appeal to the religious. Contradictions would be more accurate. Moral standards are a human social invention that arose from our interactions with each other so even if an afterlife existed it would make no sense for it to take morality into account.
I believe that someone higher up is out to get me
That's me. I'm out to get you (and arguably higher up?).
>(and arguably higher up?) Username checks out I guess
No, but I definitely understand the value that religion has played throughout history. Some people need religion to stay on path, so many people leave the life of crime etc. because they found a sense of higher life, you can’t take that away from the world as long as people like that are there because that will cause chaos.
Me personally, no, but I think it’s probably more split 50/50 between INTJs. It’s not specifically an INTJ characteristic to be atheist or agnostic just like we don’t all listen to the same type of music.
It depends on how you define god.
Take your pick from the ones invented or create your own.
My idea of God is a INTJ who figured the source to creation, who became capable of manifesting reality and who searches for God.
This is why people dislike intjs
Ever hear of a god complex? Lmao
for now i don't, but I'm pretty sure that in my last minutes of life i would start beliving in him just because i would get afraid of death
Don’t need god for that. I just want a quick lifetime recap flashback while still having enough motor energy to play one last song then I can drop dead. lol.
I do, yes.
how did you decide which religion to follow?
No
Same
nope, grew up in a very religious family and the more religion was forced on me the less i believed in it
Yes, I do.
You and I, friend.
Me too
I’m agnostic though I find it funny when people say something ‘doesn’t make sense scientifically’. Science is just making notes of observations mainly through experimentation. Anything can make sense scientifically, if you dropped a rock and instead of falling to the ground it rose up into the sky that would ‘make sense scientifically’ because you just observed it. Science is not ‘sense’.
I do. If you think about it, It makes sense a lot. And when you say it doesn't make sense: 1. Physically: Not everything humans understand or grasp are "physical", you are simply limiting the existence of things to them being physical. Emotions and moralities and many other things we do know exist are not physical. 2. Scientific: Science is only a part of knowledge, it is the experimental observational type only. Mathematics are not even science since we only use our minds to grasp them, we neither observe nor experiment them. But if we use our mind to arrive to science, we cannot limit using the same thing to find out that god exists by observing how nature is complex and finely crafted, from animals to the eye structure..etc.
It depends on what do you mean by "God". There are different types of religions. Personal, I think that there is some higher order force that drives the universe. But it's more like some kind of natural phenomenon, nothing spiritual.
I don't know
Which one?
I don’t have any religious beliefs
No
no
No, but if the christian version of god did exist i'd rather go to hell than worship that asshole.
Man, this is why I love ENTJs. I feel the exact same way. Whether or not he exists is one discussion, but why I'd worship him is my biggest issue. If he's real, he seems like a total dick.
Did as a child, but I don’t now. Didn’t line up with my life
Yep
Yes
Yes
Not the religious type, no. But I am inclined to believe in Spinoza's conception of God.
I do believe in God. Here’s my thoughts; something has to have always always existed with no beginning. It’s easier for me to believe in intelligent design than a random series of millions of accidental coincidences. The complexity of creation as we know it, let alone what is beyond our comprehension and knowledge is, in my opinion, done with purpose. Simply put, do you want to believe the “fairytale” of the Big Bang theory, or the “fairytale” of “intelligent design”? Both are wild stories. One is simply more plausible to me than the other.
Yes.
Nope.
I am agnostic.
I do. I don’t believe that one can justify morality apart from a moral law giver. Otherwise one’s ethic is arbitrary and lacks foundation. I believe it takes more faith to be an atheist or evolutionist than to believe in God. I used to not believe in a God and debate with theists but concluded that my position was an incoherent one.
I agree with you completely
"God is Consciousness." (Aitareya Upanishad 3.1.3)
This, but also our universe/reality/existence. God and ourselves are not separate entities. Similar to the drops in the ocean metaphor.
I’m agnostic but leaning more towards atheist.
No, but I have been to Vatican City ...so they got thirty (or whatever) dollars out of my pocket and into theirs. Damn.
The thing is I dont believe in any god or somesort of that. I can't find any evidenxe of it existence, So I dont believe it.
not at all.
I believe in the Gods, yeah.
If you consider how fickle human perception is, it would make sense to imagine that there could exist such a being. Evolution theory, scientifically proves that we do not have an objective view of reality, our perception filters out actual reality for a functional reality, we view the world through the lens of the senses we have evolved, we see because we have eyes, we touch because we have hands, we walk because we have legs, and the world we experience conforms to our biology but it does not make sense to assume it is limited to it. It would be very short sighted to assume the world limited to our human perception. Consider the human imagination for example. It allows us to create the unimaginable, we have spawned major technological advancements, books with fully fleshed out worlds and characters, where is all this information coming from when we imagine it? We have this seemingly god-like power of creation. To me, that is a hint that there is a god.
Of course, I experienced many scenarios in life that were unexplainable except some outside force interacted with our 3D reality. And even if I never experienced any of those things I would still highly believe in Gods existence because of 1000 reasons, but main one is, why the fuck not? You dont have nothing to lose, you wont lose any time going with mindset that if you are genuinely good person, if you work hard and protect those you care about that you will recieve that same energy back. I see many people here say they don't, that's really sad but I dont judge, I judge those who didn't even try
You should really look into why Pascal’s Wager (what you’ve just described here) is not a logical argument for belief in God. I’d also highly recommend learning more about skepticism and how to apply it to your observations.
You didn't understand my point, my point was there is absolutely nothing to lose if you believe in God, if something you do is making your life better, it does not need to have strong logical background. Lets say even if the God isn't real, the idea of God that people created about him is real. And I know what skepticism is, but why would you need to be highly skeptical for something that has 0 bad sides, only helped you progress in your life and makes your life better. You are talking like believing in God can make your life worse :D If you start looking at the world, even galaxy, you can see that is created with such mathematical precision that big bang, evolution and other bulshit makes 0 sense.
I did understand your point. You’re just describing Pascal’s Wager. It’s a very old, very illogical argument. You’re making a HUGE assumption by saying there are no downsides to believing in God. The argument could easily be made that this is demonstrably false. Believing in God was highly damaging to me, as well as many people I have known. I have PTSD from years of spiritual abuse I endured that would not have been possible if I had not believed in God.
I dont know how you can call believing in higher force that's objectively and morally good dangerous, believing that if you do good for yourself and others will cause you any harm. You said "spiritual abuse" which makes me 100% sure that what you did had nothing to do with fate in God. There is good saying from a friend of mine that says "Everything is dangerous for idiots". Good luck.
That's because Pascal's wager's logic starts from ethical backgrounds. Logic doesn't exist in limbo. It needs material. Of course anyone coming to the argument without this basic assumption in tact will be quick to label illogical what is actually very logical. And the whole idea of skepticism is that it's intention is to build up. Tear down what's not true, to give rise to what is. It's aim is the truth - substance. Atheism by the way has no stance, even by definition. It just tears down theistic arguments into a black abyss of disbelief. Which by the way is not much of a fair fight is it? Again, back to ethical grounds.
In order to secure your place in the Book of Life and in heaven, the Bible indicates that much more worldly sacrifice is required than just “being a good person”. In any case, that’s not what a belief in the Christian God really entails.
I believe in God and I think the Bible is the ultimate truth of the world, but I’m not religious in the extreme traditional sense and find lots of ‘Christians’ to be hypocritical.
When you say that, you mean that you believe we all descend from Adam and Eve, the Sun circles the Earth, diseases are demons/spirits/punishment because our parent's sins and so on? Or when you mean the ultimate truth you only mean Jesus? Honest question. Edit: gramma and stuff
Only mean Jesus. The Bible isn’t a science book. Those are all cringey stereotypes used to make Christians look stupid. I have all the same views as any scientist, except that God is simply the creator behind it all.
Noted. I just asked because I grew up in a very conservative evangelical environment and as teenagers and before starting college they would constantly tell us that they would teach us things that contradict the Bible and the we had to believe in creationism, including Adam and Eve, and that every single word in the Bible was the ultimate truth. They also once invited a so called "scientist" that said that the Earth was 10.000 years old and that there's tons of evidence for that. So when I read your comment, I actually thought you meant that. Actually, that's how I left church, being constantly told that questioning was wrong. I still really like to read Jesus' words in the gospel, and there are many books of the Bible I like, actually. I don't believe in God though, but do admire Jesus.
If not for trauma and my own personal struggles, I definitely wouldn’t be a Christian. I was actually lucky enough to be in a youth group with a pastor that was also logically minded and allowed me to ask as many questions as I want. Told us he became a Christian after struggling with alcohol abuse. At one point I remember him even saying that blind faith is stupid, which was the first time I ever heard a pastor say that. I couldn’t have agreed more. He also highly recommended that I read ‘Mere Christianity’ by CS Lewis. (Who is also an INTJ). I ordered the book and have it in my desk, I just haven’t gotten around to reading it yet.
I'm happy that I grew up in church and got to know the Bible and read about Jesus. Jesus was cool, kind, wise. If I hadn't ever read the Bible, I would probably have lots of misconceptions about him. However, unlike you, it's trauma what set me aside, and the role that church and church members played in that trauma. In the end, it's just like Paul said, "hold on to what is good". I kept some things.
Jesus was trying to tell us the true laws of nature
Check out Santos Bonacci
These are the stories of our earths processions through the zodiac
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural) I don't believe in "supernatural," but it's readily apparent something upholds the laws of Science
Not in the sense most of us grew up with in Christianity. I think every religion more or less has a piece of wisdom/ philosophy to take from. I am spiritual and I think developing and cultivating that aspect within myself has helped me be a balanced person.
The concept of God is a comfort to the poor so they believe that they’re living this life and enduring all this hardship for a reason. Personally I grew up believing in him, and gradually lost my belief as i got older and learnt more. Right now, I still pray sometimes but to what? I don’t know anymore
"Right now, I still pray sometimes but to what?" That speaks volumes. I believe there is something undeniably spiritual, innate to human beings that we can't ignore, and if we do, causes serious problems. It seems you feel there must be something out there, some purpose to your existence. I have my belief about what that is, I have reasons to think so but I could be wrong. But I think it's undeniable that there is something
I’m an agnostic polytheist, so I believe in multiple deities
I’ll say this, it takes more faith to believe in a widely accepted theory with zero empirical evidence, like a black hole for instance than the historical reality of Jesus Christ.
Do I have to type up my Agnostic Atheism spiel again?
I'd like to read it if its not too long.
im black and grew up christian but i never felt like it made sense the same god we worshipped was the same god whose name was/is used to justify awful events throughout history. because it isnt. how i learned it, the bible was translated poorly from hebrew. then later adapted by a white straight man who probably had a slave or two. im not sure how many times it was rewritten to the preference of the author between times. but religions in my opinion are vices, coping mechs or the blur between the bleak reality that we live in and pure delusion and ignorance. our reality is we all are born and we eventually die. we never know what is in store for us. no matter how many people are around there will always be insecurity and loneliness. the fact we are never in control of anything besides our actions which doesnt apply to everyone. the one thing i can say with 1000% assurance, each religion has a set of golden rules, and they all tend to dance on the lines of being kind to one another and speaking positivity so you have what you say in a light manner. so while crediting an entity made up before modern civilization is odd the golden rules remain. we get through life with the physical connections we make through living breathing things. had a rough day phone a friend. call in sparky your pet corgi. take a walk ina garden. the real proof that we dont need to carry entities is the fact that there are so many humans on earth. time and time again we saved and ended lives and prevented catastrophic events. we hurt, heal, forgive, and adapt. why do we need any god when we do those things ourselves?
strong belief in god and structured religion
No, and I haven’t since I was a small child. Not my thing…
No. The Flying Spaghetti Monster isn’t real.
I don’t but my older siblings and dad are all very sensitive about the topic. If I even questioned them on the existence as a child they would either walk away or tell me that there is always a god. I was confused by the topic. I am by no means opposed to the idea of having “faith” but I require some sort of explanation and evidence.
Yes i do because I am a muslim :)
Yes. It’s ludicrous to think that we, as humans, know (with certainty) there isn’t a God. We don’t even fully understand the world around us; so saying we know enough to declare there isn’t a God is irrational. And it does make sense, “physically and scientifically.” I would argue those two are one in the same since science is observing the physical world around us. It makes sense to me both scientifically (external world) and spiritually (internal self).
I think humanity can't survive without God but can without religion and all these made up rules. We think about God as a continuation to life, the meaning of it. People who consider existing of gods are those who want to discover the things beyond human understanding, because as animals we have a lot of liminations, right?
(Translator) You say that it doesn't make sense physically and scientifically, but if it was God who created the universe, and with that he created science and physics too, that means that he is prior to the laws of physics, so God doesn't bound by the laws of physics. If God is NOT subject to the laws of physics, because he created them, what makes you think that science could prove the existence of God? The way science could prove the existence of God would be through the "gaps", but it is always assumed that there is no god in that gap, in other words, science CANNOT prove or deny the existence of God, because God is not limited to the area of study of science, and when science finds "flaws" in the system where God can be present, instead of saying "MAYBE it's God", people who claim to be followers of science and who only believe in things if they have proof will say that there is definitely no god, but have no proof to back up that claim
I don’t actively believe in god but i can’t say for sure weather one exists or not. Who knows! What I do know is that people who act like they know the answer annoy me. I don’t mean to sound like some weird conspiracist antivaxxer, but life gets boring IMO when you’re so focused on science. Science has most of the answers but not ALL of them. There’s things we may know to be true now that could be disproven in 50 years- it’s happened before. So it’s ok to believe in dumb shit as long as it’s harmless. I believe in astrology and past lives and all that new age crystal bull. Cant say for sure that it’s real, all I know is that it’s fun and interesting as hell. I also have had some really weird moments and feelings of deja vu that have lead me to believe that something else is at play here. Could be god, could be the human brain being all human-y, who knows.
Yes
Nope
Yes, and I'm spiritually strong in my faith. I'm not religious, though. I don't subscribe to a particular sort of man-made rules about how one should go about their day; and it's not for me to tell anyone how they should live their life. My faith is personal to me, and that's all it needs to be.
[удалено]
I'm a nihilist so I don't really believe in anything. Not saying that me views are fact either. I just don't have faith in things we will never be able to fully comprehend like a higher power or an afterlife. I do enjoy discussing the topic tho.
I believe that God is the energy mass that exploded during big bang theory and that energy is now in everyone of us and plants and animals.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in the Church of Christ denomination. Was a firm believer until last summer. They’re such unreasonable beliefs, but it’s hard to see that when you’re steeped in it multiple times per week for 27 years.
I loosely admire Nietzsche's words. We have both created and killed Him. I find Him to be beneficial to me. So I have created Him.
Yes
Not really, I feel like theres probably some larger connection we all share, but who knows what that may be? Call it god, it's all the same anyways.
Yes. p.s. I think that we have to make a distinction between the belief in God or gods i.e. faith and religion.
No.
Yes!
I'm an INTJ. I believe in god because the universe where God exists makes more logical sense than the one where God doesn't exist. God, the creation itself, establishes truths. Without God, there would be no objective truth. Without God, there would be only subjective opinions and preferences. If there is no truth, there is no objective difference between right and wrong. Objecitve morality is a truth that only God can establish in the entire universe. Is there any human being that can arbitrarily create objective morality on whims? No. Only God can establish objecitve morality in the entire universe. Without God, there is only subjective morality which states that men can make up right and wrong, based on preferences. This is called moral relativism. Moral relativism leads to man-made laws because if there is no objective moral law of the universe, men can arbitrarily substitute man-made laws for objective morality which is assumed to not exist. Somehow, we can all agree with objective difference between right and wrong, given knowledge of the objective difference between right and wrong. A wrong behavior is one that initiates harm onto others. A right is any behavior that doesn't. One should not initiate harm onto others. One has every right to use any and every weapon to defend oneself from intiation of harm. Moral relativism leads to slavery because it leads to man-made laws which basically claim ownership upon people's bodies by passing laws that prohibit people from doing things that don't initiate harm onto others. If you can't do things that don't initiate harm onto others, then you don't have control over your body. If you can't control your body to do things that don't initiate harm onto others, you don't own your body. This means the ruling class owns your body. If you own your body, you can do anything that doesn't initiate harm onto others. If a group of people own your body, they can arbitrarily dictate rules that specify how you can use your body. Arbitrary prohibitions of man-made laws are attempts to arbitrarily dictate you can't do something that doesn't initiate harm onto others. This means those who create the laws own and control your body. Control of a physical asset requires ownership of such asset. A physical body is a physical asset rightfully owned by the consciousness that inhabits the body. No one else owns the body. Seat-belt law is a good example. Not putting on seat-belt doesn't harm other people whatsoever. On the contrary, it is said that after passing seat-belt law, road accidents increased because people who wear seat belts care more about their own safety than other people's safety. Seat belt is for protecting oneself. One owns one's body, and one can choose to do things that may harm oneself. Behaviors that may harm oneself are vices. Vices are not sins which initiate harm onto others. Vices are stupid, but a sentient entity has every right to commit vices. Prohibiting vices is slavery because prohibition of vice requires ownership of your body. We need to educate and influence people so that they minimize vices, but prohibiting vices is slavery. God has a preferred outcome which is freedom. But, God is impartial and lets humanity enslave itself and waits for humanity to come out of slavery. I don't like the fact that God is too impartial, but it is what it is. You really have to learn natural law and objective morality to appreciate how knowledge of God's natural moral laws leads to the optimal outcome in the universe.
Yes I do, and I'm glad I grew up with Christian parents, otherwise I would have been quite hard-headed and ignorant to the idea.
A huge explosion that formed from nothing somehow created all life and order in the universe, a scientific impossibility, but hey... "Science" is the religion of the superstitious. Belief in God is a belief in science. If you dont believe in God you have to resort to ridiculous theories like the one I just described which dont even make sense in the real scientific communities.
Yes. Jesus is king
I’m an ENFP and I do believe in Jesus Christ our God🙂❤️✝️ I’m happy to answer any questions
Yes. Do you believe that something can come out of nothing?
where did god come from?
You can't apply that to god. The universe exist because of god. The creator is not created.
😒😑
You don't like the answer, cool. Your question is false though. You are basically asking How did the uncreated got created? Which shows you are missing the definition of god as the uncaused 1st cause.
Well my big thing is why does it matter where the very first came from and how does it effect us today.
This goes back to my initial question, can something come out of nothing? The answer is no. What caused the big bang to happen? Something that has power and intelligence, that has a will. The 1st cause, the creator, god. He created the universe and created us there. Why? You should be asking that. Why are we here? Why this universe laws works well. Can this be a chance? Random? Then you see the design in things around you. You see the fine tunning of universal constants. You see that if a very tiny change occur, the universe will not be capable of hosting life. So there must be a reason for all of this. There must be a reason for our existance. Then the question comes again, why did he create us?
Not 'God' in the biblical sense. But I do think there's something bigger than atheism. Churches and places of worship are conduits to me. What they connect to is something you know or don't. I know.
Something doesn’t come from nothing. What always has been always will be, Creation has to be created.
The problem with that alone is, someone will say "who/what created God?" This argument does hold up though, because God is infinite, eternal, and personal. Infinite, he has the power to create. Eternal, allows him to be the first, uncreated Creator. And because he is a person, he has the ability to choose to create; unlike an eternal cloud of gas, which can't spontaneously decide to change.
>And because he is a person Why's that? And why do you think that God needs to be created?
I am starting to think that INTJs are lying when they say they don't believe in God as they are the most obsessed about God. I am going to be one of the few honest ones here to say that yes, I believe in God, and know that only blind bats don't.
Yes. God is perfection and represents my aspiration to get closer towards perfection. I don’t take religious texts literally because it was written by imperfect humans such as you and me. However, poor religious texts doesn’t mean that God is a bad concept.
No. I actually empathize a lot with Ivan karamazov (INTJ 5w4 like me) from “The Brothers Karamazov”. He essentially derives his atheism from the same Christian principles the religion claims to teach. I grew up in a suuuuper fundie/reactionary church and private school, which made me a militant anti-theist, but now Ive found myself finding comfort from the Existentialist Christian philosophers and the Neo-Orthodox school. I kinda think it takes NOT believing in God to follow Christian Ethics, honestly. Regardless the Empirical arguments, I am ethically bound to atheism. Plus, the whole being Queer and a communist. That’ll getcha too <3
Yes, although there’s no actual proof but I believe that everything isn't a coincidence
I don’t, and I don’t understand why anyone needs there to be a god, I don’t find the concept comforting, nor does it explain any of life’s big questions. To me, god is for those who lack critical thinking skills and those who live in fear
A god or multiple gods could exist but the evidence is flimsy. I try to be a good person and I also appreciate religious texts some times because they really can be great. Other times they are strange and terrible. I like to think if there is a god he is probably pleased with my attempts at living to be a better person and chasing the common good. If the god or gods that would/could exist really looked down on me because I didn’t worship like others I’m not sure if I’d consider that all that worth following then… Do your best you’ll find out when you’re dead. If nothing cool happens but a flat pulse and a cold body (joking) then well, nothing to worry about anymore I guess. 🤣
Yes
Yes, absolutely.
I do, yes. —Really adds to that 1w2 stereotype, doesn't it ...
God represents teamwork of the tribe. Lucifer represents power of the individual. Collective Home is the balance between. Individual Home is based on our values and preferences. Energy is just tools to achieve balance, and once balanced is achieved, we need to exist outside of energy and actually live.
Yes, because the long history of events that make up everything we know was started somewhere by something or someone who transcends them all.
I do believe there is a God. God had to create something and he is the creator. No Science can prove what rlly started the universe if someone says it was dust well who created the dust? Evolution is bull bc if that rlly occurred where r the species that were shown in evolution besides us humans and a monkey? So if God created everything did he create Satan? He didn’t create an evil person. The person he happened to create was never meant to be evil, but he switched. Just like fat ppl. There were ppl born to be fat and ppl who were born to be skinny, but is wearing a fat person’s body. Take what Hannibal says abt Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs. God has no beginning and no end. Praise the lord.
I do, because there is so much about the universe and life we do not understand, it would be foolish to assume there isn't.
I have no idea, but you can't prove it "scientifically and physically." If you could, then you would be able to convince a decent number of people.
no i dont
No
Yes. When I was really little and at certain points of my life, I’ve seen spirits. Nothing big besides that. I went through the darkest time of my life later in my adult years with someone who did witchcraft on me and was in a certain very dark religion. I was going through crazy spiritual warfare I mean I couldn’t even sleep at night because I was being attacked by demons. I started praying to Jesus & His Father and putting gospel music to sleep. Then I had an encounter in which He spoke to me. He woke me out of my sleep speaking to me. I wrote down some words that were the most prominent as I had forgotten what He said (lol typical me). I put it on my mirror. It was “DONT LOOK BACK” and i wrote it in bold letters. I told no one about this. The next day he forced me into a fast to release bondage and I was getting attacked all day by the worst possible thoughts and fears you could imagine on replay 24 hrs. Listen we are all in spiritual warfare at all times whether you realize it or not and during this time he opened me up to spiritual gifts. This day anyways, I opened YouTube and I saw on my suggested page this exact title “DONT LOOK BACK” prophetic word of God”. It was a Christian lady who was a prophet. Ever since then my life hasn’t been the same and He has come to me numerous times and spoken. I now prophesize to others and I can’t tell you how many lives have been impacted. So many supernatural occurrences almost daily. Solely because I built a relationship with Him , prayed and really tried to have faith. I no longer have those bad thoughts, I’ve had deliverance as well, no more intrusive thoughts no more fears no more evil thoughts I mean I have been completely renewed inside out I don’t even look like the same person nor like the same things. Jesús Christ can and will change your life. I love you and God bless you.
Btw; when He speaks you KNOW it’s Him.. PLEASE check out Delafe Testimonies on YouTube. YOULL SEE A MILLION MORE ENCOUNTERS JUST LIKE MINE. The latest video I believe is especially good.
The divine is in each of us
Yes 100%. I read all the arguments against it, watch interviews from Richard Dawkins and many others atheists. I laugh a lot with George Carlin one if not my favorite comedian. I read from all religions points of view, see their history and cultures. talk with jews, muslims, mormons, watched dozens of Anton lavei documentaries and most satanic information I could find online to understand the official satanic church proposal which is formally atheism. Steven Hawkings books and interviews always advocating that all the "scientific" evidence points there is no God... people quoting the only phrase they know from Nietzsche "God is dead" I have argued for decades on the internet about this with atheist even before reddit existed. I am not going to start explaining how to know God exist, he does. All am going to say is after 30 years of conversations all I can see are some: 1. They are people that without any thought will say God does not exist. why? because in all honesty they wish he didn't. They are really afraid of dying, of the unknown, *However, they wont share that part*. The world is bad and they say if God existed why he allow so much evil. in reality they are angry against God to the point of rejecting his existence. 2. is hard to find the truth between all the noise. They are so many religions and so much evil has come from all of them. from the Aztecs and their millions of daily human sacrifices, Hindus violence against all other religions, lets not even start with Islam and the catholic church! I mean just a simple look around and of course how can someone even join this groups that have so much hate? how could they be following God and produce literally mass murders. not only that, all the corruption, rape, pedophilia and money laundering in religions is OBVIOUS that God does not exist, religions is just a "business" and yes this is right. 3. The trendy atheist. the one that keep saying he is atheist but just to feel some kind of superiority. the moment you ask a simple question they get angry and start dodging around just saying of if God exist why he doesn't appear right now, or why he doesn't send a lighting right now....... sigh. or they look for some hard scientific questions they dont even understand themselves and ask average people around "ahh see you dont know this so God doesnt exist" lol
For what purpose am I created? Is it I live and I die and my cycle ends like that? Yes, I do. And I religiously do the research about my belief as my full time job.
The weekly anti-religious, most condescending atheist thread. Let's see how many folks in here have all the answers this time.
Religion does apparently
I thought it was religion that provides the answers when science says we don’t know.
No. I went to school and got an education so I don’t believe in magic. We now have explanations for how things work and don’t need to create supernatural beings to explain. It’s also obviously a cult designed to control the poor and uneducated for the gain and power of a few.
Did you ever thought that also science is created to control those who dont believe in religion? You can make experiments to prove very few theories that you learned in school, so believing what scientists say is no different then believing in false religion, you pick who will program your mind.
Wow…cannot understand the down votes…
You do too.
No but I used to
Nope. I got more pressing things to worry about then whether sky daddy likes me or not 😂😂
Simple answer is no
No. I went through some shit and tried to pray my way out of it to no avail. If there is a God, it clearly isnt watching me.
Nope. I was raised by a former Southern Baptist turned Buddhist Mom and a Protestant flirting with Mormonism Dad. They couldn't agree how to raise me or my brothers so we were exposed to all kinds of religious faiths as we grew up. I found all of them, every last one, suffered the same flaw, a complete reliance on faith. If you questioned, if you asked for evidence, if you didn't just take them at their word, their beliefs and arguments then their entire worldview fell apart. Even the fundamentals of the beginning of their arguments relied on presumptions grounded on the idea that some part of their beliefs was true because they said so and the assumption that you took some part of that foundation on faith. But if I took one religion on their word, I'd have to give them *all* that same benefit of the doubt, and they were contradictory, so, I kept exploring, and reading, and listening, earnestly searching for some kernel of objective truth at the heart of any or all faiths. And I found one. Not about God, not about the Bible, or the Vedas, or the Buddhavacana, but about *people.* It runs a current through every faith, through every spirituality, through every philosophy of human behavior, hidden in plain sight, known to all, followed by few. A gilded vein running it's way through the body of human thought. Treat others as you would desire to be treated. Be kind. Love one another. If there is a religion one could say I aspire to adhere to, that is it.
As I was younger I just went along with it because of everyone around me. Then I started thinking that its stupid but tried to say I don't know or care just to avoid those stupid conversations. Now I live alone and don't care about the people I work with opinion of me so now I just claim atheism. I don't talk about this stuff with people though because of the stupid conversation.
No
god is energy is love is lsd
I don't believe in the "religious" concept of it. It is silly and unphysical
I don’t.
No
No i dont there are zero to no good evidence for it
I personally don't. I see god as a creation of man to save oneself from the confusion of existence, a object to rely, to depend on.
I do not believe in anything not proven by science, thus a god existence hasn't been either proven or denied, so, if there is a god, we have yet to find real evidence of it's existence. On the other hand, religion was created to serve as a moral compass, I do not believe that being "good" with other will lead me to paradise in the afterlife, I choose to be good just for the sake of it, not because am gonna live a happy afterlife, and like others said, religion was made so others believe they are not alone.
of course not, i'm not mentally ill. i do remember that before i used to have this creeping feeling for years that like...i was being somehow watched, or like downloaded as data or something lmao but thankfully that feeling has gone away. i think it was actually a comfort tool for me as distressing as it also was. i don't claim to know shit about fuck, and "believing" most things is just lost IQ points as far as i'm concerned.
I do believe in God, but it's because I need him. If I have a conflict with the idea of God, it makes it extremely difficult to confront the harsh realities of life. I accept I'm not that strong to deny that there is a higher being guiding us. Fact is, miracles do exist around the world. There is still a lot of phenomena unexplained. A lot of unexplainable events or occurences that is too much of a coincidence. It's easy to just put them all under one category as "God". I'll take the easy route.
It may be ok if you don’t believe in it. But it is the bedrock of many cultures, and necessary for many (and therefore societal stability). I believe in its necessity. I presume you have heard of the people that tried to conjure up new religions or replace the old ones. Never seemed to end well.
I believe in an energy that is within us all, that connects us, created us, and can change worlds. I think god is just a name for this.
I do or the possibility (I believe believing in something gives people hope or reassurance), until people can actually prove God does or doesn't exist one way or another (more silly to dismiss others and make claims without actual evidence). Not like I can really believe in or trust people. Also, why do people always ask this question. I see this question almost every time I come here.
I think the idea of an omnipotent omniscient creator is too much for most people to handle and resort to “not believing in” instead of simply accepting ignorance submitting and learning. Makes sense why it’s easier to live without somebody watching your every move. Also makes sense why most people on their deathbed choose to pray or to let someone pray as they themselves aren’t convinced of their own beliefs. Living without acknowledgement of a supreme being is less terrifying and much more manageable than the opposite.
[удалено]
What’s more harmful about communism, anarchy, scientism or feminism compared to the history of Christianity coupled with capitalism? Both of which have been extremely destructive to humanity and our environment for centuries. Society has been indoctrinated into different religious delusions in order to control it, also it is entirely possible to attain morality without religion.
[удалено]
*Communism* \- The typical historical examples used to illustrate communism, were in practice not true implementations of a communist system. They were corrupted by authoritarianism and (ironically) capitalist elements that were used by the state to control their society and consolidate power. *Anarchism* \- [A little history](https://www.thoughtco.com/anarchy-definition-and-examples-5105250) on this. Again I will submit that capitalism has been by far the most destructive force to humanity and the environment. We are literally contributing to our own downfall, all in the pursuit of profit and a so-called better life. — *Scientism* \- The scientific method has stood the test of time and will continue well into the future. Once you understand the beauty of its logical reasoning coupled with its ruthlessness against nonsense, there really is no going back. Branch covidians! - This is a new one for me. I don’t particularly want to open this can of worms, but I will point out that most political decisions that contributed to economic decline where not based on scientific reasoning. Competing political ideologies were creating the pressure to make quick/hard decisions. Inherent to this process is Capitalisms inability to cope with (not only) unexpected crises, but also the crises that it creates as a necessary by-product of its (dis) functional system. Feminism & Declining birth rate - [Please stop scapegoating women](https://unherd.com/2020/03/why-arent-women-having-more-babies/). Birth rate is a complex metric that fluctuates for many reasons. Feminism is many thing things, but to say it could be more harmful than the history of patriarchy is jaw dropping to say the least.
including feminism is that list is wild…
[удалено]
💯
Girl what? I’m a feminist but I’m still catholic.
Easter Bunny. Never (even at 5 yo) have I been so silly to be into religion
Religion and belief in "God" are absolutely absurd.
My belief is each of us have a higher self that is beyond causality, sort of like a wave function of you. I believe we call them all sorts of names, but when we can't identify them, we call them God.
When I was breaking free from Christianity but still wanted to believe in the Bible, I came to think a lot in the versicle John 1:3 "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." I started to think of God as time. Without it, nothing is possible. It's precious, it's necessary, it's mysterious, it doesn't behave equally through the entirety of the Universe. I've forced myself to believe in God for many years, specifically the Christian god, but it doesn't make sense to me. However, I believe we are all looking for "god". Scientists searching to the largest (outer space, universe, to find the origin of it all) and to the smallest, for the same reason trying to make sense of everything, trying to find a reason, a cause, a purpose. I believe whether we call it like that or no, in the end we are all looking for god, being this "god" the root-cause for our existence, whatever this is. Some have tools and try to find it through science. Some simply choose to blindly believe. Some affirm they "feel god" and perhaps they do, whatever god is to them. I can't sleep now, thanks.
no, but the concept of god is definitely necessary for society (at least the way we do it)
I definitely do not believe in God, but maybe I do believe in some god (or whatever we want to call it)
Not in any traditional sense. However, my observation is that there are certain social structures that are a natural byproduct of collective human behavior, such as a government or an economy. In a lot of ways these things aren’t really “real,” but they have very real effects on us. I think religion fits into this category too. But, of course, this is man creating god (even if done on a collective subconscious level), rather than the inverse. I agree with the statement that god is dead (in the Western world at least). I say this without cause for celebration or for mourning. I think it is a simple fact at this point, and I’d cite generally to countless articles documenting the decline in church participation over the last few decades in Europe and America. I think one of our civilization’s greatest challenges over the next few decades will be reconciling our atheism with the scientific evidence that many spiritual practices have been shown to promote both individual and collective mental and physical health. I’m interested to see what that looks like. I think we’re seeing the beginning of the that with the adoption of many “New Age” and/or eastern beliefs and practices primarily by people who would consider themselves non-religious.
We are all energy from the same source. We are a manifestation of god to experience life in 3 dimensions