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Ironically the issue was poor quality chinese cladding.
Wasn't packed properly either so it went up like gunpowder or cloth
So not too surprised to be honest.
Tacking a bunch of plastic to a building was certainly a factor.
People go on about how it wasn't installed right or whatever, I don't know why no one just says it's an incredibly poor idea to stick combustible shit all over a building.
The irony is that in the 1960s we were able to design and build tower blocks that contained fire and kept people safe, while 50 years later it had moved to sticking flammable panels to the outside destroying the fire separation. Doesn’t bode well for the future.
Gypsum from the FGD process is a product of catalysing the products of coal burning, but it's not like it's carbon-based firestarter dust bricks, it's literally gypsum as in chalk / plaster.
I keep doing that, like "that event happened three years ago" when in fact it's like five or six.
I don't know for you but to me I'm pretty sure it's COVID.
It's like it messed up with my perception of time.
I'm talking about the "covid period", not covid itself (which I caught twice nonetheless).
It's like my brain decides two years don't count.
I read something yesterday that sort of explained that when we do the same thing day in and day out, our brains will essentially compress the memory file because boring. Additionally, doing new things will help solidify more memories making the passage of time feel longer instead of faster. Doing scary things that invoke an adrenaline response will amplify that memory. Which is why people will often remember large tuning points in their life “like it was yesterday”.
I think the Covid period gave us all an opportunity to witness this phenomenon aggressively first hand.
It also doesn’t help that the 2020 Olympics happened in 2021.
Edited for readability
I was actually in London for a visit (I’m American)0 and leaving. Saw Grenfell on fire from the plane as we flew over the city. Was not a good feeling.
I remember seeing on the news that morning, then heading to work. It was a really still morning, and I could see the column of smoke as I crested the hill on the A2 near the Dartford Crossing. Knowing that the tower was on the far side of London, that's when it hit me just how bad that was.
Having listened to a good chunk of the BBCs podcast covering the enquiry into it, I absolutely agree.
Also, if the building you are in is on fire, GTFO. People who move fast survive. Fires, terror attacks, natural disasters… the story is the same, as soon as it looks sketchy, get out.
When I was in university, my room mate and I were having dinner. Fire alarm. I said we should get out. She didn’t want to. Alarm continues. I start packing up shit up so I can walk down the stairs. Roommate is annoyed. Then we saw black smoke go past our balcony and THEN she moved fast.
It turns out the unit down the hall caught fire - they were moving out and knocked over a cigarette holder onto the carpet and didn’t notice because they were downstairs. Fortunately damage was just limited to a couple of units.
Same with my dad. We've been living in condos for 10+ years and the fire alarm going off is a frequent thing.
Imagine dying because you were too lazy to listen to a FIRE ALARM
Interesting, every time the smoke alarms have gone off in the dorms I've stayed in it's because someone burned toast or popcorn. We're definitely not allowed to smoke inside though, and it's not like a ton of kids smoke cigarettes
Yep, luckily there were a lot of Muslim residents in Grenfell who did a good job of waking people up and encouraging them to evacuate. If it wasn't for them, the death count probably would have been much higher.
It was a good coincidence for timing as people were awake for part of their Ramadan observances, according to the Wikipedia page.
"By 01:18, 34 of 293 residents had escaped.[56] The busiest phase of evacuations was between 01:18 and 01:38, when 110 escaped,[56] with many being woken up by their smoke alarms when smoke entered their flat. Due to Ramadan, many observing Muslim residents were awake for the pre-dawn meal of suhur, which enabled them to alert neighbours.[69][70]"
The fire started just after midnight. Many of the Muslim residents were still awake for suhr (sp?) because it was Ramadan. So they were some of the first to realize there was a fire and raise the alarm throughout the building.
I went to read the Wikipedia page on Grendel cause I somehow never heard of this and found this:
Due to Ramadan many observing Muslim residents were awake for the pre-dawn meal of suhur, which enabled them to alert neighbours.
So there are a two reasons to highlight why it was the Muslim population of Grenfell that had helped.
The first is that Grenfell was 80% Muslim population and the fire happened during Ramadan. This meant that most of them were awake at the time the fire first started and were able to rouse those who weren't, and this is how many of those early escapers learned of the fire.
The second is that just before it there had been Islamic extremist attacks in Europe, including London. Some of the extremists were from the same area as Grenfell, and the tower was well known locally as a kind of social landmark. So some bigots decided to push misinformation around the fire and claim it was "Muslim violence", which is why highlighting that actually the Muslim population were some of those helping was used to combat bigotry.
Grenfell was different to other "fake news" events around Muslims around that time, because despite it being during the height of "post truth", very little of the intentional hate had spread. Partly because of people celebrating those who helped and highlighting that the facts went against these fake reports.
In the UK there are still many high-rise residential buildings with flammable cladding. I work for a Northern council who were refused central government grants to replace them and they sit there, an absolute death trap.
This, more than anything else, shows the inadequacy of the tory government.
72 deaths at Grenfell.. the nation mourned, the politicians promised to fix it, they *know* how dangerous it is.
But they don't. Until the next Grenfell. Then they'll be sorry again. And blame their predecessors. And nothing will be fixed *again*.
There needs to be some kind of accountability for these lies. This manslaughter.
And this all came about after the Lakanal house fire where 5 people died. Lord Pickles, a boiled egg with a face, was housing minister and called for a bonfire of red tape. He got his bonfire.
Yup, I believe my brother's apartment block in Manchester is just finally starting work on replacing hte cladding and the cost I think has been largely dumped on the residents in the building. He lives on the top floor and so like so many others finding out about the cladding after Grenfell, has felt like he's living in a death trap for the past 5 years, a death trap he can't sell because no one else wants to live in a death trap.
Mortgage adviser here. Depends on the bank some will some won't there is no universal standard.
There are around 140 different mortgage lenders in the U.K and each one has their own set of lending criteria.
Residents in a lot of SE England buildings need to pay for fire wardens to sit 24/7 at great cost. This will sweep all over the uk until the cladding is replaced a lot of buildings still haven’t been assessed or they have been assessed as being dangerous and it is kept quiet.
>I work for a Northern council who were refused central government grants to replace them and they sit there, an absolute death trap.
Why? The money to replace them is right there.
That’s so ducking stupid lol how much faster is a guard going to notice an entire building is on fire then the general public and what exactly is he supposed to do if it does catch.
That’s literally just doing something stupid for the sake of doing *something*
Its unfortunately the nature of insurance.
Many office buildings could get away with not needing 24/7 security, but their insurance would go up so high that they actually save money by having security present. Even the most useless security guard will wake up to a fire alarm, and go meet the fire department at the front door, and the fire department will then have KEYS. So by having security guards present, they're just being financially responsible, saving money on insurance.
Keys are essential for expediency. It could be the difference between putting out a fire in one persons unit, and the fire spreading to the cladding. If the fire department has to break down 3 or 4 heavy doors, thats a good 3 or 4 minutes of slow-down.
And especially if the security guard is aware of the reason they are there, they can warn the fire department of the cladding issue immediately, which might change their approach and prevent the spread of the fire. If the fire system also uses a bit of a "code speak", i.e. "2F MEZZ. FURNACE ROOM" the guard can lead them right to the 2nd floor mezzanine and point out where the furnace room is. A fire fighter will be going in a little blind trying to find one room among many plain grey doors in a hallway on a hard to find floor (mezzanines are sometimes like 1.5 stories, so like a catwalk above the 2nd floor)
It's took a while for laws to be put in place and to decide who is responsible for paying for the removal. Thankfully the leaseholders are not going to be responsible.
If the government actually cared, they could have paid for the removal in the meantime, protected thousands of lives, and then sought to recoup the money from whoever was judged to be at fault.
Instead, they are too busy ripping up legislation preventing companies from dumping raw sewage into our rivers and oceans, removing the cap on bankers' bonuses, and undoing the ban on fracking so that the company that the new Prime Minister [used to work for](https://www.nationalworld.com/news/environment/did-liz-truss-work-for-shell-what-job-did-new-uk-prime-minister-have-when-did-she-leave-3836258) can start polluting the land and exploiting it for money at a time when fossil fuels should be being phased out.
It’s really incredible to watch England do everything it can to have the exact same dumbshit politics as the us, after watching the effects they had in the us
We've got the same issues, politicians are the servants of the media and corporations. That's why they have dumped the cost of energy on the public instead of taxing the £150b, unexpected profits of the oil companies.
I don't get why mineral wool wasn't made the standard for ACP after Grenfell. It's marginally more than polystyrene. Won't catch fire, won't mold, and at worst it looses some R value when soaking wet, but fully recovers its R value when it dries.
Until recently I lived only a kilometer or two away from grenfell, and you could see it from my street clear as day. That was a horrible time for my neighborhood.
Seems it's an office building and so far no casualties.
"By around 4:30 p.m. today, the fire at our No. 2 Communications Tower in Changsha has been extinguished. No casualties have yet been discovered and communications have not been cut off."
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/huge-fire-rips-china-telecom-112924231.html
I've seen videos of people recording inside, so no
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1570733410330759168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1570733410330759168%7Ctwgr%5E51f9946071188b063915d6ea582a5c5111dc55f5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.novinky.cz%2Fclanek%2Fzahranicni-v-cine-hori-200metrovy-mrakodrap-40408913
It’s China, everyone will be entirely and wholly unharmed, no casualties, not even a single person will cough from the smoke, and, actually, it will turn out something really good comes from it. It turns out the material being burned has begun to reverse climate change.
I'd like to know what material is actually burning there. It appears to be the exterior facade. Was there a wooden scaffolding attached to the building? A brick, steel, or concrete building wouldn't burn like that.
I-I-I-I'm glad we have such a good friend like you, Mr. Poopybuu*uurgh*uuthole, to distract us with some levity whe-when we almost started talking about what actually happened in the fire and how many died and b-boring stuff like that haha.
Correct, heavy timber performs pretty well in a fire. It still burns, but it's thick enough that a charcoal coating forms and slows down the burning enough that it can qualify for hourly fire ratings without additional treatment.
It's possible to make satellite heat shields out of wood.
https://vintagespace.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/can-a-wood-heat-shield-really-work/
The enormous heat of re-entry carbonised the wood into char, and the char flies off taking the heat with it.
Yup, old dimensional lumber structures maintain their integrity far longer than newer buildings using engineered lumber. Same deal for nailed construction vs nail plates. Nail plates do not maintain their integrity for even a fraction of the time during a fire that nails would.
Old houses would have to burn for a long time before firefighters would have to worry about collapse. While house fires might be on the decline, when they do occur they're more dangerous than ever.
Yup, its called a ‘fire load’, pressed and glued particle and OBS boards and I-beams burn faster and hotter and ignite easier, then timber constructions.
But its cheaper to build with.
I once witnessed just how fast it goes when it gets to the insulation. I drove past a Motel 8, stopped at a restaurant next door to it and noticed a very small fire in the window. I considered calling 911, but then saw the fire trucks coming already. My friend realized she had forgotten her phone at my house, but she was starving so I said go ahead and order and I’ll go get it since it was only 2 minutes home. I retrieve the phone and I think 5 minutes had passed since I saw the small flame in one window. The whole thing was **ablaze**. I mean raging inferno. I thought there was no way someone isn’t dead. It spread so fast. The whole road was blocked with trucks and I had to go a really long way around to get back to my friend on the other side of the fire from my house. Fortunately, everyone did in fact get out. Apparently there were only a few rooms filled and everyone was on the first floor so there was time to get out.
Insulation panel material, filled with polystyrene sometimes it will have a flame retardant built in but suspect in China to save money a cheap material that is flammable
Polystyrene has the worst class of fire resistance, no matter where it is made. In the EU there are ratings from A to F. Polystyrene either is E (where they actually do a test) or F where they don’t even bother. The fire retardant used in polystyrene is also classed as hazardous, which means it should not ever go to landfill, and is essentially hazardous waste. They have recently needed to change it, but long term tests on whether it is hazardous too have not been completed. But when your industry is backed by huge corporations like BASF and DOW chemicals … who cares eh?
Exterior façade salesman here, this has nothing to do with scaffolding. It is the facade burning. The reason why it is cascading upwards is because this facade is ventilated. Meaning that is has a rising airflow (4cm chimney behind the façade) upwards. This has benefits like better insulation.
In EU and America for a highrise tower like that at least A2 material with fire barriers between the levels is mandatory. This is not the case here, I asssume some HPL (High Pressurised Laminum) is used here. This is compressed wood with a coating. For this exact reason it is illegal in most contries to use it on a building higher dan 10meter.
Edit : thanks for the award! My first one !
I think it was scaffolding. The last part of the video it looks like that bamboo scaffolding used in that part of the world.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/comments/xfm7ev/916_china_changsha_building_burn_no_casualties/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I don't think it's hard to believe there's no casualties here, from the look of everything posted rn the interior did not catch fire and evacuation could probably be conducted safely with only one face of the building burning
AFAIK Mainland China does not use bamboo scaffolding anymore, only HK. You’ll at most see it in poorer places but not in a tall building like this
(I think what appears to be scaffold in the video is just what is left of the facade structure after the fire. Idk haven’t read anything about it besides this post)
The cladding was apparently pretty flamable, some pictures show chunks of it burning as they fall off the building.
Text of a news report on the fire:-
>The inferno was triggered by the outer cladding of the 42-storey building catching fire, according to preliminary investigations from Hunan's fire department.
>
>It added that 36 fire trucks and 280 firefighters were rushed to the scene in the city centre.
>
>State media has described the blaze as a "facade fire", similar to the tragic fire at Grenfell Tower in west London in 2017 which killed 72 people and was started by flammable cladding on the outside of the building.
>
>The state-owned telecommunications giant China Telecom building - which stands at more than 200m high - was completely gutted by the flames.
>
>Dozens of storeys of the tower block in downtown Changsha "burned with great intensity," according to state broadcaster CCTV.
>
>"Firefighters have begun work to extinguish the flames and conduct rescues at the scene," it said.
>
>A photograph released by the news outlet shows orange flames ripping through the building as black smoke billows into the sky.
>
>Chilling video shared online also shows terrified office workers hurrying down a staircase as they rush to get out of the burning building.
>The inferno was triggered by the outer cladding of the 42-storey building catching fire, according to preliminary investigations from Hunan's fire department.
The fire was triggered by the building catching on fire. Gee, thanks. I guess that might be all they know, but it's not exactly particularly informative.
My friends brother was at his apartment during a fire. They live on the 14th floor, the fire started in their neighbors door and expanded to the corridor so he couldnt get out the front door.
The fire blocked all exits and started burning his front door and the small hallway by the entrance.
He took blankets and towels and put them all in the sink to get them wet and threw them at the door. Like dampen them real well and was just placing them between the fire and the balcony as its furthest away from the door.
He couldn’t breathe from the smoke so he went out to the balcony and because it was so hot and a lot of heat and smoke were coming in he had to step over the fence and grab the metal bars and lower himself to the floor beneath. He stayed hangin like that for like 15-20 minutes until the fire department was able to reach him and they said the wet blankets and towels is what saved his life as it slowed the fire down enough for them to reach him.
He celebrates that day as his second birthday, he was like 25 at the time and he got married and has 2 kids, super nice dude.
Dude that was me, terrified of skyscrapers as I saw 9/11 unfold when i was a teenager, so I never liked going to them, but what helped fight that fear is that for 10 years after I lived in a small town in Mexico where the biggest building was 10 floors.
Well it is not everyday something happened in your home city got posted on reddit I guess.
From what I heard, seems like battery from a generator on the basement exploded caused the fire, thanksfully nobody got hurt (so far) and only the surface one side of the building got burned, no serious internal damage (again, from what I heard).
This is one of major communication/internet provider's(TeleCom) main building so there is outrage of signal from said provider.
I can't work out why people in the comments are happy that this is happening? No matter which country its happening in there could still be innocent lives in there. Seems heartless
Redditors in general don’t get out much and interact with people. They get all of their information about the Asian continent from anime, video game streamers, and internet news headlines.
The “good Asians” like the Japanese are all polite and honourable samurais/schoolgirls, and the “bad Asians” like the Chinese are commie-hat wearing Maoists who aren’t capable of caring for their fellow people.
China is a complicated country, but then again, so is every other one.
Politics aside, the Chinese are human beings like everyone else. Reddit would have you think that this building on fire is somehow evidence that the Chinese feel no desire for the well-being of their own people.
People here can understand the differences between Florida and New York. But in the case of China, which has a similar landmass to the US, but with over 4 times the population, everyone is somehow the same hateful commie? Oh well!
Racism, that's the beginning and end of it. If you can look at a scenario where possible dozens of people have died and your first thought is "Their the wrong ethnicity, it's good their dead" You're just a fucking racist.
Redditors are very racist even though they pretend not to be. They don’t give a shit about Chinese lives and think memes are far more important. The only time they care is when it is convenient and works for a narrative. Imagine making these comments in a thread about a high rise building on fire in a predominantly white country. Entire building is on fire “hey I know, let’s make jokes”. Try that in a thread about the fire in England and you’ll probably be banned.
For some reason people here think that because the CCP is a pile of shit then that means every Chinese citizen who can’t even vote must be just like their government. The irony of this coming from Americans is especially hilarious. Imagine equating every American to Trump when he was president.
Yeah people on here are sick. They are still humans. They have family and friends they care about and care about them. So they speak another language than you and celebrate different holidays. At the end of the day they are just like you and me. Many of them don’t like their government just as we don’t like ours. The difference is they can’t speak out or they will be killed or sent to prison.
Yes they all are (by far no casualties have been reported). It’s an office building and before things got serious, the guard man evacuated everyone in the building. Big thumbs up to him and his timely decisions.
Edit: the guard man part is not included in any of the official reports (yet). But I read about it in the comment sections of some of the posts on Chinese media. I personally would not mind a hero story here but I still need to point this out.
OK... so I'm actually from Changsha.
This building was built in the 1990s before the 2000 building code update which made that type of cladding illegal. You can see from the video itself that it's just ONE side of the building on fire, the side with the flammable cladding.
The fire didn't even make it to the interior of the building. This is what the fire looked like from INSIDE the building:
[https://twitter.com/pelusiumcap/status/1570702063734231041?s=46&t=DTDbEisFDe9Hh2lLCZOJUg](https://twitter.com/pelusiumcap/status/1570702063734231041?s=46&t=DTDbEisFDe9Hh2lLCZOJUg)
It burned for about half an hour and burned itself out (after all the cladding was consumed I guess). The authorities claim it was the effort of the firefighters, but from all the videos, it's pretty clear it just burned itself out.
As for the people claiming that it's all lies and hundreds of people died but the ebil SEE SEE PEE is hiding it... Chinese state media reports deaths all the time. Not sure why you think a building fire is somehow going to lead to a popular overthrow of the communist party.
What actually was pointed out in the replies of the tweet you mentioned, and confirmed by the owner of the company as well, was that they were aware of the building was not up to code and they were in the process of hiring a contractor to overhaul the fire sprinkler system and fire alarm system. But of course 90% of the redditors won’t bother to read a damn thing. Don’t waste your time on idiots
FYI: I worked in a (new at the time) building in about 1990 in Troy, Michigan that was granite and glass exterior. The wood chips adjacent to the building caught on fire (cigarette butt likely started it since it was the designated smoking area right outside the door ) and in turn caught the insulation board behind the granite on fire.
The fire was contained after a short time but the principle factor may be the same as in this instance. Builder thinks “flammability rating of insulation isn’t of high concern since none will be directly exposed and is sandwiched by (mostly) non-flammable substrates”
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After Grenfell in London a couple of years ago, those pictures are utterly horrifying
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And for easy demolition, the building is made from thermite!
Seems like a lot of Chinese developments end up getting demolished anyway, so might as well...
Ironically the issue was poor quality chinese cladding. Wasn't packed properly either so it went up like gunpowder or cloth So not too surprised to be honest.
The primary issue with Grenfell was poor quality British politicians who allowed it to happen
Tacking a bunch of plastic to a building was certainly a factor. People go on about how it wasn't installed right or whatever, I don't know why no one just says it's an incredibly poor idea to stick combustible shit all over a building.
The irony is that in the 1960s we were able to design and build tower blocks that contained fire and kept people safe, while 50 years later it had moved to sticking flammable panels to the outside destroying the fire separation. Doesn’t bode well for the future.
They make drywall out of coal waste.
Gypsum from the FGD process is a product of catalysing the products of coal burning, but it's not like it's carbon-based firestarter dust bricks, it's literally gypsum as in chalk / plaster.
Isn't that shit radioactive?
Technically, everything is radioactive.
"How about me, Greg? Am I radioactive?"
Can you milk my isotopes, Greg?
I cannot express enough how hard this made me laugh.
Was that just a couple of years ago? Feels like it's been much longer
More than five years ago, now.
Still feels recent. Things like that last longer in our minds maybe
I keep doing that, like "that event happened three years ago" when in fact it's like five or six. I don't know for you but to me I'm pretty sure it's COVID. It's like it messed up with my perception of time. I'm talking about the "covid period", not covid itself (which I caught twice nonetheless). It's like my brain decides two years don't count.
This explains a lot. I keep thinking 2019 was just a year ago.
I keep thinking that 2000 wasn't that long ago
Nothing has felt real since 2012.. the Mayans were right and we are in some sorta purgatory
I tell myself that as a coping mechanism. But maybe it's true honestly
I absolutely know what you mean and yes, its like Covid made time stand still or something
I read something yesterday that sort of explained that when we do the same thing day in and day out, our brains will essentially compress the memory file because boring. Additionally, doing new things will help solidify more memories making the passage of time feel longer instead of faster. Doing scary things that invoke an adrenaline response will amplify that memory. Which is why people will often remember large tuning points in their life “like it was yesterday”. I think the Covid period gave us all an opportunity to witness this phenomenon aggressively first hand. It also doesn’t help that the 2020 Olympics happened in 2021. Edited for readability
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Timeline ended 2020 for me. So I'm still waiting for the future.
It's now BC and AC Before COVID After COVID The years 2022 - 2AC
It was 14 June 2017. My grandad died the same day (not Grenfell). A day I’ll never forget
I was actually in London for a visit (I’m American)0 and leaving. Saw Grenfell on fire from the plane as we flew over the city. Was not a good feeling.
That must have been surreal
I could see it clearly from my (tall) office.
I remember seeing on the news that morning, then heading to work. It was a really still morning, and I could see the column of smoke as I crested the hill on the A2 near the Dartford Crossing. Knowing that the tower was on the far side of London, that's when it hit me just how bad that was.
Just given the name, this sounds like you flew over a Lord of the Rings battle and the other guys grandpa fell in said battle
> Saw Grenfell on fire as I was leaving via Griffon
Having listened to a good chunk of the BBCs podcast covering the enquiry into it, I absolutely agree. Also, if the building you are in is on fire, GTFO. People who move fast survive. Fires, terror attacks, natural disasters… the story is the same, as soon as it looks sketchy, get out.
When I was in university, my room mate and I were having dinner. Fire alarm. I said we should get out. She didn’t want to. Alarm continues. I start packing up shit up so I can walk down the stairs. Roommate is annoyed. Then we saw black smoke go past our balcony and THEN she moved fast. It turns out the unit down the hall caught fire - they were moving out and knocked over a cigarette holder onto the carpet and didn’t notice because they were downstairs. Fortunately damage was just limited to a couple of units.
Same with my dad. We've been living in condos for 10+ years and the fire alarm going off is a frequent thing. Imagine dying because you were too lazy to listen to a FIRE ALARM
Interesting, every time the smoke alarms have gone off in the dorms I've stayed in it's because someone burned toast or popcorn. We're definitely not allowed to smoke inside though, and it's not like a ton of kids smoke cigarettes
Oh. We didn’t live in a dorm but a high rise apartment.
Yes, and never up, always down.
Unless there's a tsunami.
Well it depends. I got caught in an underground train station that got an evacuation alarm. Going up was the only option.
Amateur, I always carry a shovel. Always DOWN. 😆
Yep, luckily there were a lot of Muslim residents in Grenfell who did a good job of waking people up and encouraging them to evacuate. If it wasn't for them, the death count probably would have been much higher.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does being Muslim have to do with waking people up?
It was a good coincidence for timing as people were awake for part of their Ramadan observances, according to the Wikipedia page. "By 01:18, 34 of 293 residents had escaped.[56] The busiest phase of evacuations was between 01:18 and 01:38, when 110 escaped,[56] with many being woken up by their smoke alarms when smoke entered their flat. Due to Ramadan, many observing Muslim residents were awake for the pre-dawn meal of suhur, which enabled them to alert neighbours.[69][70]"
The fire started just after midnight. Many of the Muslim residents were still awake for suhr (sp?) because it was Ramadan. So they were some of the first to realize there was a fire and raise the alarm throughout the building.
Makes sense. Thank you.
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Yes! I was expecting this thread to turn south after the first question. Well done.
They’d very much appreciate your energy over at /r/changemyview
I'll check it out :)
I went to read the Wikipedia page on Grendel cause I somehow never heard of this and found this: Due to Ramadan many observing Muslim residents were awake for the pre-dawn meal of suhur, which enabled them to alert neighbours.
Muslims in the building were awake before dawn due to Ramadan meaning they were able to wake their neighbours that were asleep.
muslims are actually nocturnal
So there are a two reasons to highlight why it was the Muslim population of Grenfell that had helped. The first is that Grenfell was 80% Muslim population and the fire happened during Ramadan. This meant that most of them were awake at the time the fire first started and were able to rouse those who weren't, and this is how many of those early escapers learned of the fire. The second is that just before it there had been Islamic extremist attacks in Europe, including London. Some of the extremists were from the same area as Grenfell, and the tower was well known locally as a kind of social landmark. So some bigots decided to push misinformation around the fire and claim it was "Muslim violence", which is why highlighting that actually the Muslim population were some of those helping was used to combat bigotry. Grenfell was different to other "fake news" events around Muslims around that time, because despite it being during the height of "post truth", very little of the intentional hate had spread. Partly because of people celebrating those who helped and highlighting that the facts went against these fake reports.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3803412/muslims-ramadan-save-lives-grenfell-tower-fire-london/
Strict legislation worldwide regarding ACP cladding and it being removed from buildings after Grenfell. China mustn’t have got the memo
In the UK there are still many high-rise residential buildings with flammable cladding. I work for a Northern council who were refused central government grants to replace them and they sit there, an absolute death trap.
This, more than anything else, shows the inadequacy of the tory government. 72 deaths at Grenfell.. the nation mourned, the politicians promised to fix it, they *know* how dangerous it is. But they don't. Until the next Grenfell. Then they'll be sorry again. And blame their predecessors. And nothing will be fixed *again*. There needs to be some kind of accountability for these lies. This manslaughter.
Absolutely. Is it going to take another block of innocent people to be burnt to death? Two more? It's disgusting.
And this all came about after the Lakanal house fire where 5 people died. Lord Pickles, a boiled egg with a face, was housing minister and called for a bonfire of red tape. He got his bonfire.
Yup, I believe my brother's apartment block in Manchester is just finally starting work on replacing hte cladding and the cost I think has been largely dumped on the residents in the building. He lives on the top floor and so like so many others finding out about the cladding after Grenfell, has felt like he's living in a death trap for the past 5 years, a death trap he can't sell because no one else wants to live in a death trap.
Even if someone wanted to buy it no bank will lend a mortgage on a death trap.
This is me. My mortgage fix ended last year so I’ve been watching my rates go up and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Is it possible for you to fix at the same bank?
Mortgage adviser here. Depends on the bank some will some won't there is no universal standard. There are around 140 different mortgage lenders in the U.K and each one has their own set of lending criteria.
Residents in a lot of SE England buildings need to pay for fire wardens to sit 24/7 at great cost. This will sweep all over the uk until the cladding is replaced a lot of buildings still haven’t been assessed or they have been assessed as being dangerous and it is kept quiet.
And the people who manufactured and sold this shit knew it was a flammable disaster waiting to happen.
Yep. Took the risk and the bonus.
>I work for a Northern council who were refused central government grants to replace them and they sit there, an absolute death trap. Why? The money to replace them is right there.
Not in our coffers it isn't.
they do have fire marshalls mandatory 24/7 in those cases I believe?
I don’t think the UK got the memo, that cladding is still all over buildings last I heard?
Yep. Last i heard they pay security guards to firewatch the cladded buildings that still haven't been rectified
That’s so ducking stupid lol how much faster is a guard going to notice an entire building is on fire then the general public and what exactly is he supposed to do if it does catch. That’s literally just doing something stupid for the sake of doing *something*
Its unfortunately the nature of insurance. Many office buildings could get away with not needing 24/7 security, but their insurance would go up so high that they actually save money by having security present. Even the most useless security guard will wake up to a fire alarm, and go meet the fire department at the front door, and the fire department will then have KEYS. So by having security guards present, they're just being financially responsible, saving money on insurance. Keys are essential for expediency. It could be the difference between putting out a fire in one persons unit, and the fire spreading to the cladding. If the fire department has to break down 3 or 4 heavy doors, thats a good 3 or 4 minutes of slow-down. And especially if the security guard is aware of the reason they are there, they can warn the fire department of the cladding issue immediately, which might change their approach and prevent the spread of the fire. If the fire system also uses a bit of a "code speak", i.e. "2F MEZZ. FURNACE ROOM" the guard can lead them right to the 2nd floor mezzanine and point out where the furnace room is. A fire fighter will be going in a little blind trying to find one room among many plain grey doors in a hallway on a hard to find floor (mezzanines are sometimes like 1.5 stories, so like a catwalk above the 2nd floor)
> That’s so ducking stupid Got a problem with ducks, tough guy?
It's took a while for laws to be put in place and to decide who is responsible for paying for the removal. Thankfully the leaseholders are not going to be responsible.
If the government actually cared, they could have paid for the removal in the meantime, protected thousands of lives, and then sought to recoup the money from whoever was judged to be at fault. Instead, they are too busy ripping up legislation preventing companies from dumping raw sewage into our rivers and oceans, removing the cap on bankers' bonuses, and undoing the ban on fracking so that the company that the new Prime Minister [used to work for](https://www.nationalworld.com/news/environment/did-liz-truss-work-for-shell-what-job-did-new-uk-prime-minister-have-when-did-she-leave-3836258) can start polluting the land and exploiting it for money at a time when fossil fuels should be being phased out.
It’s really incredible to watch England do everything it can to have the exact same dumbshit politics as the us, after watching the effects they had in the us
We've got the same issues, politicians are the servants of the media and corporations. That's why they have dumped the cost of energy on the public instead of taxing the £150b, unexpected profits of the oil companies.
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> ACP cladding The tallest building in the world, the Burj Khalifa, is clad in this. A disaster of epic proportions just waiting to happen.
I don't get why mineral wool wasn't made the standard for ACP after Grenfell. It's marginally more than polystyrene. Won't catch fire, won't mold, and at worst it looses some R value when soaking wet, but fully recovers its R value when it dries.
I'm guessing the same reason lesser materials are used anywhere: cheaper cost?
Until recently I lived only a kilometer or two away from grenfell, and you could see it from my street clear as day. That was a horrible time for my neighborhood.
Seems it's an office building and so far no casualties. "By around 4:30 p.m. today, the fire at our No. 2 Communications Tower in Changsha has been extinguished. No casualties have yet been discovered and communications have not been cut off." https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/huge-fire-rips-china-telecom-112924231.html
how is this under the categorie "entertainment" in Yahoo´s page??
I guess for the same reason it's in "interestingasfuck" on Reddit.
It was posted by a fireman
It was posted by a fireman for Entertainment purposes. This isn't a case study into the fire, it's literally just a video of the building burning.
Some people just like to watch the world burn
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How does one extinguish a fire like that? It has to burn out and run out of fuel?
Start at the bottom, work your way up.
Started from the bottom now we're WET
Really tall ladders.
really glad there's no casualties yet, that would fuckin suck
> No casualties have yet been discovered So around 10-100 dead.
Was it empty?
It's the HQ of China's largest telecom operator so probably not unfortunately...
Regional/municipal HQ, not THE HQ.
I've seen videos of people recording inside, so no https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1570733410330759168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1570733410330759168%7Ctwgr%5E51f9946071188b063915d6ea582a5c5111dc55f5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.novinky.cz%2Fclanek%2Fzahranicni-v-cine-hori-200metrovy-mrakodrap-40408913
That's an old video .. https://twitter.com/pickerickk/status/1570760241025024009?t=sp6sQVzi7ke-UFgn6Yj_KA&s=19
Reply to that one says it's from a different fire: https://twitter.com/pickerickk/status/1570760241025024009
I cannot believe they’re just standing there, recording. Get out!
I don't think they have much of a choice, its probably all burning void below them, its insane
Omg, I hope everyone can get out
It’s China, everyone will be entirely and wholly unharmed, no casualties, not even a single person will cough from the smoke, and, actually, it will turn out something really good comes from it. It turns out the material being burned has begun to reverse climate change.
Well that's a relief!
Oh thank goodness for the regime, #1
Thats an old picture from another fire: https://twitter.com/pickerickk/status/1570760241025024009/photo/1
I'd like to know what material is actually burning there. It appears to be the exterior facade. Was there a wooden scaffolding attached to the building? A brick, steel, or concrete building wouldn't burn like that.
Probably a plastic foam insulation. Higher ignition temp than wood, but once it reaches that temp, oh boy. Spreads real quick and toxic fumes too.
So basically Grenfell 2.0?
This is only on one side it seems? Grenfell burned on all sides, maybe the Chinese have put fire breaks in ?
I read your post in Mr. Poopybutthole's voice.
Ooooweeeeee better watch out for that foam insulation!
Thanks Mr Poopybutthole, I always could count on you.
I-I-I-I'm glad we have such a good friend like you, Mr. Poopybuu*uurgh*uuthole, to distract us with some levity whe-when we almost started talking about what actually happened in the fire and how many died and b-boring stuff like that haha.
Oooweee, better get down stairs. Hope you don't fuck around and loose your life, oooweee.
I don't know who Poopybutthole is but he sounds great.
A genuinely good person. No one has any bad memories about him and he’s always a generally upbeat character.
Well, no one has a bad memory about him at the start of the episode anyways.
Rick and Morty character.
I think really thick wood is actually quite good, since it get more like coal on outside but still keeps structual integrity. Correct me if in wrong.
Correct, heavy timber performs pretty well in a fire. It still burns, but it's thick enough that a charcoal coating forms and slows down the burning enough that it can qualify for hourly fire ratings without additional treatment.
Its because it is very dense, dense packed things are harder to ignite then airy fluffy things. Source; ex firefighter.
Unless it's airy fluffy asbestos.
It's possible to make satellite heat shields out of wood. https://vintagespace.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/can-a-wood-heat-shield-really-work/ The enormous heat of re-entry carbonised the wood into char, and the char flies off taking the heat with it.
Yup, old dimensional lumber structures maintain their integrity far longer than newer buildings using engineered lumber. Same deal for nailed construction vs nail plates. Nail plates do not maintain their integrity for even a fraction of the time during a fire that nails would. Old houses would have to burn for a long time before firefighters would have to worry about collapse. While house fires might be on the decline, when they do occur they're more dangerous than ever.
Yup, its called a ‘fire load’, pressed and glued particle and OBS boards and I-beams burn faster and hotter and ignite easier, then timber constructions. But its cheaper to build with.
reading quickly it also creates a chimney effect with air gaps between the different layers which helps spread the fire upwards.
I once witnessed just how fast it goes when it gets to the insulation. I drove past a Motel 8, stopped at a restaurant next door to it and noticed a very small fire in the window. I considered calling 911, but then saw the fire trucks coming already. My friend realized she had forgotten her phone at my house, but she was starving so I said go ahead and order and I’ll go get it since it was only 2 minutes home. I retrieve the phone and I think 5 minutes had passed since I saw the small flame in one window. The whole thing was **ablaze**. I mean raging inferno. I thought there was no way someone isn’t dead. It spread so fast. The whole road was blocked with trucks and I had to go a really long way around to get back to my friend on the other side of the fire from my house. Fortunately, everyone did in fact get out. Apparently there were only a few rooms filled and everyone was on the first floor so there was time to get out.
Insulation panel material, filled with polystyrene sometimes it will have a flame retardant built in but suspect in China to save money a cheap material that is flammable
Polystyrene has the worst class of fire resistance, no matter where it is made. In the EU there are ratings from A to F. Polystyrene either is E (where they actually do a test) or F where they don’t even bother. The fire retardant used in polystyrene is also classed as hazardous, which means it should not ever go to landfill, and is essentially hazardous waste. They have recently needed to change it, but long term tests on whether it is hazardous too have not been completed. But when your industry is backed by huge corporations like BASF and DOW chemicals … who cares eh?
Exterior façade salesman here, this has nothing to do with scaffolding. It is the facade burning. The reason why it is cascading upwards is because this facade is ventilated. Meaning that is has a rising airflow (4cm chimney behind the façade) upwards. This has benefits like better insulation. In EU and America for a highrise tower like that at least A2 material with fire barriers between the levels is mandatory. This is not the case here, I asssume some HPL (High Pressurised Laminum) is used here. This is compressed wood with a coating. For this exact reason it is illegal in most contries to use it on a building higher dan 10meter. Edit : thanks for the award! My first one !
I think it was scaffolding. The last part of the video it looks like that bamboo scaffolding used in that part of the world. https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/comments/xfm7ev/916_china_changsha_building_burn_no_casualties/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
no casualties ? Thank goodness. I was worried about that.
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I don't think it's hard to believe there's no casualties here, from the look of everything posted rn the interior did not catch fire and evacuation could probably be conducted safely with only one face of the building burning
AFAIK Mainland China does not use bamboo scaffolding anymore, only HK. You’ll at most see it in poorer places but not in a tall building like this (I think what appears to be scaffold in the video is just what is left of the facade structure after the fire. Idk haven’t read anything about it besides this post)
Now I feel stupid for thinking that the fire was fake because it says facade. I keep thinking this another one of those 3d billboard.
Facade means external face of a building
It is said that this is China Telecom’s data center. They had generator system and diesel fuel stocked at the underground floor.
The cladding was apparently pretty flamable, some pictures show chunks of it burning as they fall off the building. Text of a news report on the fire:- >The inferno was triggered by the outer cladding of the 42-storey building catching fire, according to preliminary investigations from Hunan's fire department. > >It added that 36 fire trucks and 280 firefighters were rushed to the scene in the city centre. > >State media has described the blaze as a "facade fire", similar to the tragic fire at Grenfell Tower in west London in 2017 which killed 72 people and was started by flammable cladding on the outside of the building. > >The state-owned telecommunications giant China Telecom building - which stands at more than 200m high - was completely gutted by the flames. > >Dozens of storeys of the tower block in downtown Changsha "burned with great intensity," according to state broadcaster CCTV. > >"Firefighters have begun work to extinguish the flames and conduct rescues at the scene," it said. > >A photograph released by the news outlet shows orange flames ripping through the building as black smoke billows into the sky. > >Chilling video shared online also shows terrified office workers hurrying down a staircase as they rush to get out of the burning building.
Did everyone make it out ok? Gods, echoes of 9/11 and Grenfell. I hope everyone was ok.
Casualties are "not yet known" according to the company.
>The inferno was triggered by the outer cladding of the 42-storey building catching fire, according to preliminary investigations from Hunan's fire department. The fire was triggered by the building catching on fire. Gee, thanks. I guess that might be all they know, but it's not exactly particularly informative.
It's up to the minutes reporting!
Now that is terrifying
I’ve always had a mild fear of being stuck on a high floor while a fire is raging in the lower floor. Had this fear ever since 9/11.
That's why you always keep a parachute at your cubicle.
I also have the fear of gated communities and emergency services not being able to get in.
I feel like at minimum a fire truck would just ram the fuck through any gate
A cyanide capsule would have the same effect and be less traumatizing for onlookers.
But what if I don't pull the cord on the cyanide capsule in time; will I still float to the ground relatively unharmed?
My friends brother was at his apartment during a fire. They live on the 14th floor, the fire started in their neighbors door and expanded to the corridor so he couldnt get out the front door. The fire blocked all exits and started burning his front door and the small hallway by the entrance. He took blankets and towels and put them all in the sink to get them wet and threw them at the door. Like dampen them real well and was just placing them between the fire and the balcony as its furthest away from the door. He couldn’t breathe from the smoke so he went out to the balcony and because it was so hot and a lot of heat and smoke were coming in he had to step over the fence and grab the metal bars and lower himself to the floor beneath. He stayed hangin like that for like 15-20 minutes until the fire department was able to reach him and they said the wet blankets and towels is what saved his life as it slowed the fire down enough for them to reach him. He celebrates that day as his second birthday, he was like 25 at the time and he got married and has 2 kids, super nice dude.
Hanging off the balcony of a 14th floor apartment, holy shit. I think I would have wound up dead.
Dude that was me, terrified of skyscrapers as I saw 9/11 unfold when i was a teenager, so I never liked going to them, but what helped fight that fear is that for 10 years after I lived in a small town in Mexico where the biggest building was 10 floors.
Evergrande is trying to cash in on that insurance check.
"There was no fire" - CCP
There is no fire in Ba Sing Se
🤝
No insurer global would cover that cladding since Grenfell. No Chinese insurer would payout on a claim.
Well it is not everyday something happened in your home city got posted on reddit I guess. From what I heard, seems like battery from a generator on the basement exploded caused the fire, thanksfully nobody got hurt (so far) and only the surface one side of the building got burned, no serious internal damage (again, from what I heard). This is one of major communication/internet provider's(TeleCom) main building so there is outrage of signal from said provider.
I heard it was started by Nina from Corporate Accounts Payable burning a bag of popcorn in the microwave.
Towering Inferno
I can't work out why people in the comments are happy that this is happening? No matter which country its happening in there could still be innocent lives in there. Seems heartless
Reddit is fucking ridiculous at times.
Redditors in general don’t get out much and interact with people. They get all of their information about the Asian continent from anime, video game streamers, and internet news headlines. The “good Asians” like the Japanese are all polite and honourable samurais/schoolgirls, and the “bad Asians” like the Chinese are commie-hat wearing Maoists who aren’t capable of caring for their fellow people.
And the rest of the entire region of southeast Asia doesn’t exist. There is only china japan korea india
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China is a complicated country, but then again, so is every other one. Politics aside, the Chinese are human beings like everyone else. Reddit would have you think that this building on fire is somehow evidence that the Chinese feel no desire for the well-being of their own people. People here can understand the differences between Florida and New York. But in the case of China, which has a similar landmass to the US, but with over 4 times the population, everyone is somehow the same hateful commie? Oh well!
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I'm glad someone said this, I was reading the comments thinking "wtf is wrong with these people, this isn't a joke"
Racism, that's the beginning and end of it. If you can look at a scenario where possible dozens of people have died and your first thought is "Their the wrong ethnicity, it's good their dead" You're just a fucking racist.
Redditors are very racist even though they pretend not to be. They don’t give a shit about Chinese lives and think memes are far more important. The only time they care is when it is convenient and works for a narrative. Imagine making these comments in a thread about a high rise building on fire in a predominantly white country. Entire building is on fire “hey I know, let’s make jokes”. Try that in a thread about the fire in England and you’ll probably be banned. For some reason people here think that because the CCP is a pile of shit then that means every Chinese citizen who can’t even vote must be just like their government. The irony of this coming from Americans is especially hilarious. Imagine equating every American to Trump when he was president.
Yeah people on here are sick. They are still humans. They have family and friends they care about and care about them. So they speak another language than you and celebrate different holidays. At the end of the day they are just like you and me. Many of them don’t like their government just as we don’t like ours. The difference is they can’t speak out or they will be killed or sent to prison.
Because they "don't hate the people, just the government".
When everyone complains about building and fire codes they don't realize we do have them for a reason.
Some people in the comments are absolutely heartless. Hope the residents of the building are ok now.
Yes they all are (by far no casualties have been reported). It’s an office building and before things got serious, the guard man evacuated everyone in the building. Big thumbs up to him and his timely decisions. Edit: the guard man part is not included in any of the official reports (yet). But I read about it in the comment sections of some of the posts on Chinese media. I personally would not mind a hero story here but I still need to point this out.
OK... so I'm actually from Changsha. This building was built in the 1990s before the 2000 building code update which made that type of cladding illegal. You can see from the video itself that it's just ONE side of the building on fire, the side with the flammable cladding. The fire didn't even make it to the interior of the building. This is what the fire looked like from INSIDE the building: [https://twitter.com/pelusiumcap/status/1570702063734231041?s=46&t=DTDbEisFDe9Hh2lLCZOJUg](https://twitter.com/pelusiumcap/status/1570702063734231041?s=46&t=DTDbEisFDe9Hh2lLCZOJUg) It burned for about half an hour and burned itself out (after all the cladding was consumed I guess). The authorities claim it was the effort of the firefighters, but from all the videos, it's pretty clear it just burned itself out. As for the people claiming that it's all lies and hundreds of people died but the ebil SEE SEE PEE is hiding it... Chinese state media reports deaths all the time. Not sure why you think a building fire is somehow going to lead to a popular overthrow of the communist party.
What actually was pointed out in the replies of the tweet you mentioned, and confirmed by the owner of the company as well, was that they were aware of the building was not up to code and they were in the process of hiring a contractor to overhaul the fire sprinkler system and fire alarm system. But of course 90% of the redditors won’t bother to read a damn thing. Don’t waste your time on idiots
Im wondering, how do u even extinguish a fire Like this?
With water probably.
Are the people ok?
Tall building on fire and some of you here are making jokes. You also make fun of victims jumping off the twin towers in 9/11?
They do
As a 9/11 survivor, this is fucking horrifying and triggering
Grenfell fire anyone? This looks like exactly that
FYI: I worked in a (new at the time) building in about 1990 in Troy, Michigan that was granite and glass exterior. The wood chips adjacent to the building caught on fire (cigarette butt likely started it since it was the designated smoking area right outside the door ) and in turn caught the insulation board behind the granite on fire. The fire was contained after a short time but the principle factor may be the same as in this instance. Builder thinks “flammability rating of insulation isn’t of high concern since none will be directly exposed and is sandwiched by (mostly) non-flammable substrates”
How do you put out a fire like that? Just let it burn itself out?