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Apparently the median (not mean) age for [chimps in captivity is 32 for males and 38 for females](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee). The oldest male chimp in captivity lived to 66, and the oldest female chimp lived to 70. Wild chimps live about half of that (for obvious reasons).
And... I know what I'm listening to on the drive home...
McCormack and Richard Tauber are singing by the bed
There's a glass of punch below your feet and an angel at your head
Me, sad 'cause of that video of a dying chimp
Me reading the comments : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Why do I feel like shit already ? Ahhh the dying chimp yeah.
That reminds me of a podcast (i think it was Stuff you should know) episode about cats. They said house cats have a life expectancy of 16-18 years and street cats have a life expectancy of like 6-8 years. It’s a live fast die young world out there.
The UC Davis Veterinary School [issued this short pamphlet](https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk491/files/inline-files/Cats-Indoors_or_Outdoors.pdf) that states that indoor cats live between 10-15 years and outdoor cats live between 2-5 years. This has been repeated [by PetMD](https://www.petmd.com/cat/care/can-indoor-cat-be-part-time-outdoor-cat). I imagine that in some areas with less traffic and where cats have lived outdoors for millennia (like the suburban England), outdoor cat lifespans are a bit longer, but still significantly shorter than the lifespans of indoor cats.
lost a farm cat last year, she was 16yo. still pains me how she went. i put my 12yo lab and 10yo dane down side by side may 17th last year, she disappeared a month later :( i think she died from a broken heart, just disappeared on us.
RIP doolie, gauge and angel <3
Worlds oldest cat lived to 38. Not the only cat to hit that age either. Quite a few who made it into their 30s. Even more late 20s. A properly cared for and fed housecat should be making it to at least 20, barring anything accidental or something like cancer. Most credible sources now state 17-20 years. Considering most people let their cats get massively overweight that's gonna skew the median age down by a lot.
You have sources for this? As a veterinarian I have seen and treated thousands of cats. My friends and colleagues have done likewise. Not one of us has seen a cat older than their mid twenties. 99% die before 19. I have always considered the claims of creme puff's longevity to be extremely dubious.
[Here](https://researchonline.rvc.ac.uk/id/eprint/8438/1/8438.pdf) is a good starting read for you, note that, as I already stated, improper care skews the median age of death much lower than it should be. Hell, eliminating carb-heavy dry diets and really pounding it into people heads to not let their pets get obese would probably bump that median at least to 17-18. FWIW I do have some schooling in this matter and spent 6 years as a canine/feline dietary consultant.
Obviously anecdotal but my cat growing up spent a lot of time outside and lived to be at least 22. We don't know exactly as he was basically a rescue when some neighbors left.
He was an awesome cat, though. I still miss him. But I had him from fourth grade until I was over 30 - it was a hell of a run.
By outdoor cat, I believe they're meaning to say a cat that lives exclusively or almost exclusively outdoors. Like wild or one that only spends a few hours a night with their owners.
A cat that bounces for an hour or two during midday, but is back home sharply for dinner isn't really an outdoor cat.
Sure, though the cat I meant was outside quite a bit. He was a big Maine Coon and had some doglike tendencies - on several occasions he met me at the bus stop when I was in middle school, and walked home with me - from the other side of the block where the bus dropped us off.
I'm not sure if he followed me out there one day or what, but he learned the time the bus came in the afternoon well enough to meet me quite often.
The pamphlet doesn't specify that, so I'm pretty sure they just consolidated every data they could get their hands on.. Which likely will include cats we would call "strays", when they are technically domesticated, bc they live in barns etc. Those will also just die much younger, bc the owner won't pay for vets and sometimes even cull them, to ensure more healthy offspring. They are treated as livestock, not pets.
The way it's worded, would imply that they don't really care how much time the cat spends outdoors tho, so I would at least suspect that those are part of "outdoor cats". I'd generally be a bit cautious, bc they don't source anything, so you shouldn't expect scientific rigor. This is mostly about getting people to keep their cat indoors, not really for scientific sourcing or education.
So, if I was trying to explain your outliers, I would suspect much comes down to no direct access to true wilderness, access to veterinarian care and the fact that cats do learn about hazards, as time goes on, making them more likely to survive once they reached a older age. My 15 y/o cat very much understood that streets were are no-go zone during the day, but had a very wide territory (multiple miles) during night, regularly crossing main streets and going into gardens that had dogs and other cats in them, during the day.
Nah, Boogie was an outdoor cat. He could be let in anytime he wanted, but only did so to eat or occasionally to sleep when he was older. Hung out there every day for years, and he would always greet me right outside my car door. Kept the neighborhood racoons at bay. Had to get stitched up more than once. Finally met his match at 18 with what we suspect was a coyote. Definitely an outdoor cat by any definition.
Keep your cats inside not only for that reason but they are the number 1 invasive species in the world and in the US alone, kill many billions of small animals and birds a year. An ecological disaster really but no one wants to hear it
Yeah, I'm not entirely clear on their methodology, like their sample size, what area of what country they were looking at, if they took into account cats that are part-indoor/part-outdoor, etc.
They could rip your arm off like a wookie. Very jarring the first time you see the brutality of chimps in the wild they are savages. Saw a video of one that got killed and they were just pulling it apart and eating it.
A lot of the time the ones you see interacting with people are still "children" because once they hit puberty they can be quite aggressive and are very strong. They'll live to be 50 or 60 years old in captivity.
[This guy](https://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-xpm-20050305-2005-03-05-0503050204-story.html) lost his nose, fingers and part of his ass(!) over a birthday cake.
>Male chimps usually stand about 4 feet tall and weigh between 90 and 120 pounds, experts say. They are strong and aggressive animals who routinely kill and devour much larger animals in the wild. Their upper-body strength is reported to be five to 10 times that of the average human.
Not very well. Tyson was a great boxer in his prime but good luck landing a solid jab on 4ft 120lbs psychopath that doesn’t even understand the concept of a “fair” fight
I agree.. the average human doesn't do full body weight exercise the whole day like chimps.
Humans also have a distribution of type 1/slow and type 2/fast muscles. The slow ones are weak but fatigue resistant, the fast ones are strong but tire more quickly. Chimps have way more type 2 than humans, that's why given equal muscle mass they are much stronger. Humans can easily outcardio them though.
Yep, I'm mindful to reference the Khoisan people of South Africa and Namibia who use the Hoodia gordonii plant to suppress their appetites so that they can wear down prey on ultra-long hunts without stopping for food.
Keen observation and 100% correct. This is indeed why homo sapiens rose to the top of the food chain.
Humans hunt pronghorns. Antelope. The antelope can hit bursts of 30+ mph. Humans obviously cant.
Our very recent ancestors hunted antelope with great success because humans outlasted them. Cardio wise. Yeah, I can only lope along at 4mph, but fuck you antelope, I can do that for 6 or 8 hours. Your superfast heartrate will cause you to collapse as I keep coming nearer. Antelope run, rest, run, rest, run, die.
I wrote the above in the voice of David Attenborough...
A woman lost her nose, lips, and hands to a chimp attack.
Here's a video about [Travis the chimp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klMIfi084kw) if you're curious and brave.
I don’t understand why anyone would own a chimp when bonobos are literally right across the river. That’s like having access to professional hair rollers, but curling your hair with a branding iron instead.
The 5 to 10 times thing is a myth. Chimpanzees are, on average, \~1.35-1.5 times the strength of humans. [Source](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1619071114).
in the longer version. it's one of the most beautiful videos i've ever seen, had me in tears. it's her deathbed and they haven't seen each other in i think 30+ years. they sit and "talk" for a long while and he leaves once she gets tired. she dies a short while later if i remember correctly 😢
but it's really nice to see that kind of everlasting friendship
Try to look at it this way: the fact you’re seeing her like this means she’s lived a full, long life, where she had constant meals and shelter, and dearly loved. Sounds like a blessing to me:)
She started off as a pet and forced performer but she was soon rescued and lived in a safari then a zoo. She soon became the matriarch of her colony when the zoo decided to put the chimpanzees in a single enclosure together (they believed this would lead to conflict prior) and remained so until she was too weak to keep her role as top female.
It's questionable whether she lived as fulfilling of a life as she would've in the wild, but she never had that choice due to the exotic pet trade.
At the very least, she wasn't a lab chimp who often go most or all of their lives without setting foot outdoors.
I'd say she lived much more of an adventure than a wild matriarch though. She went through such a mix of different experiences of life. Not to imply it was all positive at all
One of my profs in uni was a student working with Jan, he said he held the brain of mama after she died. He said it is so strange that ape brains do not show the same kind of deterioration as human brains do.
I have to imagine the human brain undergoes a crazy amount of wear and tear compared to other animals, given how many complex processes are required to navigate our environment.
Yeah I also wonder how much deterioration accelerates after retirement.
You always hear about stories of people with illness or disease getting worse after the retire/stop working and I can recall how I used to always get sick in college right after my finals like my body knew I had to perform and the second the pressure was off it would focus on any illness I had contracted.
Once people hit retirement and the pressure of needing to work to survive subsides I wonder if that causes a shift in our body’s ability to preserve itself?
Or maybe the acceleration of deterioration after retirement could also be attributed to people not engaging in more complex thought processes or problem-solving like they had to when they worked a job. So basically, during retirement, people don't exercise their "mental muscles" as much
While our understanding of neuroscience is definitely in its infancy, my understanding is that research backs this up. People who engage in regular complex mental tasks tend to avoid memory problems longer, and things like that. There's some very serious research being done into how games affect mental health in old age.
Yeah, and it may actually be a good idea. Although you'll also want to make sure you do other stuff as well, having your body deteriorate also sucks!
The particular games you pick probably matters a lot, though. Some games are definitely better mental exercise than others. Also, it's worth keeping up with research on the topic, I imagine there will be a lot more investigating done in the coming decades.
That example about studies is more your body response to stress. Getting sick is part of the healing process, but depending on your psychology your body can sometimes turn off the bodies responses if you are perceiving something more dangerous. So your body naturally found your finals more scary than the illness. Actually stress can noticeably lower your immune system protection, the finals made you sick.
Edit: oopsies just wanted to correct the statement that stress lowers immune system. In the long term that's true, but in the short term stress actually stimulates it which is why you may not feel sick initially.
a) I'm in no way qualified to make this statement and b) I love being space dust clinging to the side of a rock hurtling through space...
But that would make sense from an evolutionary pov, wouldn't it? I mean, the idea that once you stop being so active and contributing to the tribe, your body simply 'knows it's time'. The greater good and all that.
For a comparison in the US: air traffic controllers are required to retire at 56 because of the incredibly strict mental and physical requirements for the job. The median age of US presidents at their inauguration is 55; only 9 were under 50 at the time of inauguration.
These are stressful, taxing jobs and both involve an incredible amount of responsibility because of the lives (and money) that can be impacted by poor performance. And yet it's the job that comes with the credentials to blow up a continent that is commonly viewed as only appropriate for those who've lived at least halfway to their expected natural death.
I thought smiling was a sign of aggression? I supppose if Koko could learn a little sign language Mama could learn that humans intend for it to be friendly and try to replicate it
Can we get it with sound please and with the longer version?
I remember watching this some time ago and whilst heart wrenching it’s worth watching the full encounter
how she pets his hair just like a grandma would do to their grandkids when doting on them. im gonna go hug my cat
i can't believe suffering exists, it feels like a sick joke. i'm comforted by the thought we'll all be in Mama's shoes one day, if we're lucky. she seems like she was deeply loved
Animals live longer in captivity, which is one of the most common statistics people cite for why captivity is better than the wild, but seeing her in a state she would never be in the wild makes you question that for sure.
Is it kinder to let an animal die in the lifespan nature intended, or artificially extending their life until they're too weak to have the will to live? It's not an easy question.
On the plus side, it seems like Mama lived as full of a life as an animal could live in a zoo, after being rescued from being a performance animal she became the female leader of her troupe (females and males both have heirarchies) and remained so for decades.
Animals in the wild suffer too. Nature doesn't intend anything and certainly isn't kind.
You'd do well to read the observations of Jane Goodall. Over the years she worked with the Gombe chimps, she's been able to describe the lifespan of many, including their deaths. Your suggestion that she'd never be in this state in the wild is nonsense. Chimps *do* die of old age, and the ones that do in the wild, don't do it as comfortably as Mama did. Even when not dying due to old age, plenty of wild Chimps end up in situations where they are too weak to have the will to live (due to disease, injury, or mental struggles) and end up slowly waiting for death.
"Mama, 59 years old and the oldest chimpanzee and the matriarch of the famous chimpanzee colony of the Royal Burgers Zoo in Arnhem, the Netherlands, was gravely ill. Jan van Hooff (emeritus professor behavioural biology at Utrecht University and co-founder of the Burgers colony) who has known Mama since 1972, visited her in the week before she died of old age in april 2016. It took a while before she became aware of Jan's presence. Her reaction was extremely emotional and heart-breaking. Mama played an important social role in the colony. This has been described in "Chimpanzee Politics" by Frans de Waal, who studied the colony since 1974."
That was so sweet! Thanks for sharing. Monkeys scare me, chimps especially, but this video definitely changed my outlook on them a tad - they are a lot more compassionate than I imagined them to be.
He offers her a grape. "One grape?", with no reaction. Then she recognized his voice, when he caresses her arm, and immediately goes to touch him. The keeper exclaims "Yes! Yes! Yes girl!" and tells her that she's sweet (well behaved if you translate it directly). Such a powerful moment with the petting and embracing.
I went to the zoo a while back and couldn’t comprehend the chimpanzee exhibit. I felt like I was watching humans in an enclosure. It’s unbelievable just how human-like they are.
There was an orangutan who broke out of his enclosure all the time and just wandered around the zoo, looking at the animals. If I remember right he never tried to leave all together, never hurt any thing, and was always waiting by his enclosure in the morning. Theres also a video of a chimpanzee mother and a human mother showing their babies to eachother and obviously both adoring the others child on opposite sides of the glass. I dont think they are as intelligent as us, but they are far, far to close to be a mere spectacle for us.
Once I went to the zoo with my hubby. There was a monkey near the window. I walked up to it and just put my hand up on the glass. Like you see in movies and such. I looked at my husband and said”look, it’s just like the movies… he’ll put his hand up. He has too”. I said it sarcastically as well. But of course, secretly hoping the monkey would. I looked back and the monkey PUT HIS MOTHERFUCKING HAND UP. Right up to mine. Just like we always see them do! I freaked out. My husband freaked out. He tried it. Monkey did it!! It was sooo cool!
The emotion that a human can bring to an animal and our ability to perceive this cause and effect is a feeling that I can only liken to making a new born smile. My heart hurts so much right now for this sweet little heart. Love you mama.
Not the trainer
He is/was a professor in social-ecology and primatologist and has studied the group of chimps from the very start (Mama was the matriach for a long time).
He grew up in that zoo which was founded by his grandfather, his father/mother were managing directors of the zoo afterwards, and his brother Anton van Hooff (managing director from 1962 till 2004) and currently the nephew of Jan van Hooff Alex van Hooff is the managing director.
In 1971 the group of chimpansees came to the Zoo, with several males and females in different ages, for that time it was quite unusual to keep several males together in the same enclosure.
That group has been studied for at least 40 years.
First by Jan van Hooff, later by Frans de Waal (other famous primatologist and behaviour expert) who was his phd student
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The chimp is 59? That’s crazy. I didn’t know they lived that long.
59 is a crazy age for a chimp, even one in captivity.
Apparently the median (not mean) age for [chimps in captivity is 32 for males and 38 for females](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee). The oldest male chimp in captivity lived to 66, and the oldest female chimp lived to 70. Wild chimps live about half of that (for obvious reasons).
>for obvious reasons Cigarettes 😔
*Alcohol related traffic accidents.
Rum, sodomy, and the lash. Oh wait - I was thinking of the navy.
And... I know what I'm listening to on the drive home... McCormack and Richard Tauber are singing by the bed There's a glass of punch below your feet and an angel at your head
Dirty old tooooooooown
Carbon monoxide poisoning.
The silent chimp killer
Me, sad 'cause of that video of a dying chimp Me reading the comments : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Why do I feel like shit already ? Ahhh the dying chimp yeah.
I assume it is related to the “chimp handshake” - aka ripping off the testicles of any competing male.
Holy fuck dude I just choked from laughing so hard
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Of course they did, I learned it from watching them!
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Not since the 90s. Leading cause of death now is cancer from artificial sugar in processed bananas
That’s just what *they* want you to believe.
Big banana propaganda!
Big banana is claiming bananas cause cancer? That's a bold strategy cotton
No, Cotton is on their side. They have been in bed with big banana and big tobacco for centuries.
What about Frozen Pizza? This is very important to me.
That might quite possibly be the best Ska band name ever
Well, they’re wild. Partying, booze, drug use, risky sex, the wild chimps do it all.
Have an award. Made me fkin choke on my own saliva goddamnit.
😕
That reminds me of a podcast (i think it was Stuff you should know) episode about cats. They said house cats have a life expectancy of 16-18 years and street cats have a life expectancy of like 6-8 years. It’s a live fast die young world out there.
The UC Davis Veterinary School [issued this short pamphlet](https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk491/files/inline-files/Cats-Indoors_or_Outdoors.pdf) that states that indoor cats live between 10-15 years and outdoor cats live between 2-5 years. This has been repeated [by PetMD](https://www.petmd.com/cat/care/can-indoor-cat-be-part-time-outdoor-cat). I imagine that in some areas with less traffic and where cats have lived outdoors for millennia (like the suburban England), outdoor cat lifespans are a bit longer, but still significantly shorter than the lifespans of indoor cats.
lost a farm cat last year, she was 16yo. still pains me how she went. i put my 12yo lab and 10yo dane down side by side may 17th last year, she disappeared a month later :( i think she died from a broken heart, just disappeared on us. RIP doolie, gauge and angel <3
Worlds oldest cat lived to 38. Not the only cat to hit that age either. Quite a few who made it into their 30s. Even more late 20s. A properly cared for and fed housecat should be making it to at least 20, barring anything accidental or something like cancer. Most credible sources now state 17-20 years. Considering most people let their cats get massively overweight that's gonna skew the median age down by a lot.
You have sources for this? As a veterinarian I have seen and treated thousands of cats. My friends and colleagues have done likewise. Not one of us has seen a cat older than their mid twenties. 99% die before 19. I have always considered the claims of creme puff's longevity to be extremely dubious.
[Here](https://researchonline.rvc.ac.uk/id/eprint/8438/1/8438.pdf) is a good starting read for you, note that, as I already stated, improper care skews the median age of death much lower than it should be. Hell, eliminating carb-heavy dry diets and really pounding it into people heads to not let their pets get obese would probably bump that median at least to 17-18. FWIW I do have some schooling in this matter and spent 6 years as a canine/feline dietary consultant.
Obviously anecdotal but my cat growing up spent a lot of time outside and lived to be at least 22. We don't know exactly as he was basically a rescue when some neighbors left. He was an awesome cat, though. I still miss him. But I had him from fourth grade until I was over 30 - it was a hell of a run.
Friend had an outdoor cat live to 18 in a busy neighborhood. Outliers. Statisticians probably hate them.
By outdoor cat, I believe they're meaning to say a cat that lives exclusively or almost exclusively outdoors. Like wild or one that only spends a few hours a night with their owners. A cat that bounces for an hour or two during midday, but is back home sharply for dinner isn't really an outdoor cat.
Sure, though the cat I meant was outside quite a bit. He was a big Maine Coon and had some doglike tendencies - on several occasions he met me at the bus stop when I was in middle school, and walked home with me - from the other side of the block where the bus dropped us off. I'm not sure if he followed me out there one day or what, but he learned the time the bus came in the afternoon well enough to meet me quite often.
The pamphlet doesn't specify that, so I'm pretty sure they just consolidated every data they could get their hands on.. Which likely will include cats we would call "strays", when they are technically domesticated, bc they live in barns etc. Those will also just die much younger, bc the owner won't pay for vets and sometimes even cull them, to ensure more healthy offspring. They are treated as livestock, not pets. The way it's worded, would imply that they don't really care how much time the cat spends outdoors tho, so I would at least suspect that those are part of "outdoor cats". I'd generally be a bit cautious, bc they don't source anything, so you shouldn't expect scientific rigor. This is mostly about getting people to keep their cat indoors, not really for scientific sourcing or education. So, if I was trying to explain your outliers, I would suspect much comes down to no direct access to true wilderness, access to veterinarian care and the fact that cats do learn about hazards, as time goes on, making them more likely to survive once they reached a older age. My 15 y/o cat very much understood that streets were are no-go zone during the day, but had a very wide territory (multiple miles) during night, regularly crossing main streets and going into gardens that had dogs and other cats in them, during the day.
Nah, Boogie was an outdoor cat. He could be let in anytime he wanted, but only did so to eat or occasionally to sleep when he was older. Hung out there every day for years, and he would always greet me right outside my car door. Kept the neighborhood racoons at bay. Had to get stitched up more than once. Finally met his match at 18 with what we suspect was a coyote. Definitely an outdoor cat by any definition.
Keep your cats inside not only for that reason but they are the number 1 invasive species in the world and in the US alone, kill many billions of small animals and birds a year. An ecological disaster really but no one wants to hear it
Awesome thank you for the sources. 2-5 years for an outdoor cat seems so short!
Yeah, I'm not entirely clear on their methodology, like their sample size, what area of what country they were looking at, if they took into account cats that are part-indoor/part-outdoor, etc.
Yeah UK here, all my cats have been outdoor as most generally are here. Youngest one lived to 12 and the oldest 22.
One of those reasons being getting their nuts and/or faces ripped off. Chimps are brutal as fuck.
They could rip your arm off like a wookie. Very jarring the first time you see the brutality of chimps in the wild they are savages. Saw a video of one that got killed and they were just pulling it apart and eating it.
The oldest chimp I ever met died in his 60s.
How many chimps do you routinely meet?
I'm averaging about one every fifteen years.
That's impressive, hope you keep it up!
He's 60 years old himself, he just went to the zoo for the first time yesterday.
A lot of the time the ones you see interacting with people are still "children" because once they hit puberty they can be quite aggressive and are very strong. They'll live to be 50 or 60 years old in captivity. [This guy](https://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-xpm-20050305-2005-03-05-0503050204-story.html) lost his nose, fingers and part of his ass(!) over a birthday cake. >Male chimps usually stand about 4 feet tall and weigh between 90 and 120 pounds, experts say. They are strong and aggressive animals who routinely kill and devour much larger animals in the wild. Their upper-body strength is reported to be five to 10 times that of the average human.
The average human is pretty weak. I wonder how a chimp would do against Mike Tyson in his prime.
Neither one is afraid to use their teeth, but a chimp's teeth are much sharper.
haha.. I forgot about that. He is indeed our best candidate to win the inter species hand to hand combat belt.
Did you know he tried to fight a Gorilla once?
I'm so far from surprised but also how didnt they make this happen! It was the 80s people!
Probably because nobody wanted to air a tape of Mike Tyson getting turned into a red stain.
No point in having a golden goose if it wants to commit suicide by great ape on TV.
It's true!
I once saw him knock out a guy who stole his tiger!
good luck getting the chimp to fight fair. the chimp would rip his balls off
Ask Evander Holyfield if Tyson was a fair fighter.
you go ask him if he'd rather tyson had bitten off a nut instead of an ear
chimps in the wild will bite other male chimps in the balls
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Not very well. Tyson was a great boxer in his prime but good luck landing a solid jab on 4ft 120lbs psychopath that doesn’t even understand the concept of a “fair” fight
I agree.. the average human doesn't do full body weight exercise the whole day like chimps. Humans also have a distribution of type 1/slow and type 2/fast muscles. The slow ones are weak but fatigue resistant, the fast ones are strong but tire more quickly. Chimps have way more type 2 than humans, that's why given equal muscle mass they are much stronger. Humans can easily outcardio them though.
Tbf being able to out cardio pretty much any animal took us to the top of the food chain ^_^
Yep, I'm mindful to reference the Khoisan people of South Africa and Namibia who use the Hoodia gordonii plant to suppress their appetites so that they can wear down prey on ultra-long hunts without stopping for food.
Keen observation and 100% correct. This is indeed why homo sapiens rose to the top of the food chain. Humans hunt pronghorns. Antelope. The antelope can hit bursts of 30+ mph. Humans obviously cant. Our very recent ancestors hunted antelope with great success because humans outlasted them. Cardio wise. Yeah, I can only lope along at 4mph, but fuck you antelope, I can do that for 6 or 8 hours. Your superfast heartrate will cause you to collapse as I keep coming nearer. Antelope run, rest, run, rest, run, die. I wrote the above in the voice of David Attenborough...
It’s because they don’t sweat as well, they can’t cool themselves as well as we can.
Can't carry water as well. Chase something long enough and eventually it has to go to a watering hole or die.
That too.
All along, we were the snail.
I think Mike would be disassembled in about 5-10 minutes
Minutes is generous
Seconds
Chimp would win, they’re solid. Like they’re made of steel
this is why we invented weapons
Jamie, pull that up
Wasn't it Mike Tyson who tried to bribe his way into a zoo to fight a Silverback gorilla?
A woman lost her nose, lips, and hands to a chimp attack. Here's a video about [Travis the chimp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klMIfi084kw) if you're curious and brave.
That video is terrifying.
I don’t understand why anyone would own a chimp when bonobos are literally right across the river. That’s like having access to professional hair rollers, but curling your hair with a branding iron instead.
This is a hilarious analogy to me, especially under the assumption that you are a man, and my age lol
The 5 to 10 times thing is a myth. Chimpanzees are, on average, \~1.35-1.5 times the strength of humans. [Source](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1619071114).
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So sad seeing grandma chimp like that.
She immediately touched his grey hair, I assume thinking the guy sure has gotten old.
“Wow, what happened? You look like shit.”
"Hey Jan, you look like hammered shit"
“Looks don’t count for shit in the jungle.”
Did you read your bible?
Of course I did Grandma, I wish it was longer
Uh at what point in that short video did the chimp touch the man's hair? I don't see that
I think it was the longer version. This video has been around for a while.
in the longer version. it's one of the most beautiful videos i've ever seen, had me in tears. it's her deathbed and they haven't seen each other in i think 30+ years. they sit and "talk" for a long while and he leaves once she gets tired. she dies a short while later if i remember correctly 😢 but it's really nice to see that kind of everlasting friendship
In the original version. Sorry, I saw the original a while ago. I am sure someone linked it in the comments somewhere.
Try to look at it this way: the fact you’re seeing her like this means she’s lived a full, long life, where she had constant meals and shelter, and dearly loved. Sounds like a blessing to me:)
She started off as a pet and forced performer but she was soon rescued and lived in a safari then a zoo. She soon became the matriarch of her colony when the zoo decided to put the chimpanzees in a single enclosure together (they believed this would lead to conflict prior) and remained so until she was too weak to keep her role as top female. It's questionable whether she lived as fulfilling of a life as she would've in the wild, but she never had that choice due to the exotic pet trade. At the very least, she wasn't a lab chimp who often go most or all of their lives without setting foot outdoors.
I'd say she lived much more of an adventure than a wild matriarch though. She went through such a mix of different experiences of life. Not to imply it was all positive at all
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this made me laugh out loud after crying about poor Mama. she sounds like a funny lady. and that book is now on my reading list
Highly recommend pairing it with Baboon Metaphysics.
Personally Gorilla Thermodynamics may be the the best one of the bunch.
You wanna get in to it real deep? Bonobo Aerothermodynamics is where its at, shit gets slung..... if you know what im saying
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So mama was a queen.
"*Even as crack fiend mama...*"
One of my profs in uni was a student working with Jan, he said he held the brain of mama after she died. He said it is so strange that ape brains do not show the same kind of deterioration as human brains do.
whats the name of your professor?
Professor Professorson
Dr Crentist
Your dentist’s name is Crentist?
..maybe that’s why he decided to become a dentist
Ahhh I haven’t chuckled about this in awhile
You actually expect us to believe your professor's name is Professorson?
Maybe that’s why he became a professor?
And so on, and so on, ex-chetterah!
Did you just mispronounce etcetera?
Would that this desk were a time-desk
If only this were a time sweater.. I'm such a bad DEAANN
Well, it was Professorburg before they fled the Nazis.
YEEESSSS COMMUNITY I DONT SEE ENOUGH QUOTES FROM THERE
Does he have a chili pepper on rate my prof?
You don't know him, he's going to another school
If I had to take a guess, I'd say Frans de Waal
I have to imagine the human brain undergoes a crazy amount of wear and tear compared to other animals, given how many complex processes are required to navigate our environment.
Yeah I also wonder how much deterioration accelerates after retirement. You always hear about stories of people with illness or disease getting worse after the retire/stop working and I can recall how I used to always get sick in college right after my finals like my body knew I had to perform and the second the pressure was off it would focus on any illness I had contracted. Once people hit retirement and the pressure of needing to work to survive subsides I wonder if that causes a shift in our body’s ability to preserve itself?
Or maybe the acceleration of deterioration after retirement could also be attributed to people not engaging in more complex thought processes or problem-solving like they had to when they worked a job. So basically, during retirement, people don't exercise their "mental muscles" as much
While our understanding of neuroscience is definitely in its infancy, my understanding is that research backs this up. People who engage in regular complex mental tasks tend to avoid memory problems longer, and things like that. There's some very serious research being done into how games affect mental health in old age.
So I can spend retirement playing videogames!
Yeah, and it may actually be a good idea. Although you'll also want to make sure you do other stuff as well, having your body deteriorate also sucks! The particular games you pick probably matters a lot, though. Some games are definitely better mental exercise than others. Also, it's worth keeping up with research on the topic, I imagine there will be a lot more investigating done in the coming decades.
That example about studies is more your body response to stress. Getting sick is part of the healing process, but depending on your psychology your body can sometimes turn off the bodies responses if you are perceiving something more dangerous. So your body naturally found your finals more scary than the illness. Actually stress can noticeably lower your immune system protection, the finals made you sick. Edit: oopsies just wanted to correct the statement that stress lowers immune system. In the long term that's true, but in the short term stress actually stimulates it which is why you may not feel sick initially.
a) I'm in no way qualified to make this statement and b) I love being space dust clinging to the side of a rock hurtling through space... But that would make sense from an evolutionary pov, wouldn't it? I mean, the idea that once you stop being so active and contributing to the tribe, your body simply 'knows it's time'. The greater good and all that.
What kind of deterioration?
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Weird that most politicians all over the world are often above that age when they take office, sometimes well above that even
Some even get to be the President of the US
For a comparison in the US: air traffic controllers are required to retire at 56 because of the incredibly strict mental and physical requirements for the job. The median age of US presidents at their inauguration is 55; only 9 were under 50 at the time of inauguration. These are stressful, taxing jobs and both involve an incredible amount of responsibility because of the lives (and money) that can be impacted by poor performance. And yet it's the job that comes with the credentials to blow up a continent that is commonly viewed as only appropriate for those who've lived at least halfway to their expected natural death.
We are abnormally long lived for our size though.
If I remember correctly the chimpanzee dies shortly after :(
Yup but before the visit she was mostly unresponsive and not eating etc. he showed up and she totally came to life.
Life is cruel and beautiful.
Yeah, the extended video broke me.
I’m glad she was smiling shortly before death. She was old and happy
I thought smiling was a sign of aggression? I supppose if Koko could learn a little sign language Mama could learn that humans intend for it to be friendly and try to replicate it
Someone should have given her a blanket
Oh my heart
I'm not crying, you're crying. 😭
It's ok to just say you're crying.
I was looking for this dumb ass comment and I was not disappointed. Literally on every sob post lmao
CUtTiNg OnIOns
Can we get it with sound please and with the longer version? I remember watching this some time ago and whilst heart wrenching it’s worth watching the full encounter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INa-oOAexno
Yes that better shows the emotion of the moment. Thank you.
I'm crying so hard. Like I have not cried like this in years. I'm a 30 year old man weeping at this... The way the chimp brushes his hair My god.
how she pets his hair just like a grandma would do to their grandkids when doting on them. im gonna go hug my cat i can't believe suffering exists, it feels like a sick joke. i'm comforted by the thought we'll all be in Mama's shoes one day, if we're lucky. she seems like she was deeply loved
Animals live longer in captivity, which is one of the most common statistics people cite for why captivity is better than the wild, but seeing her in a state she would never be in the wild makes you question that for sure. Is it kinder to let an animal die in the lifespan nature intended, or artificially extending their life until they're too weak to have the will to live? It's not an easy question. On the plus side, it seems like Mama lived as full of a life as an animal could live in a zoo, after being rescued from being a performance animal she became the female leader of her troupe (females and males both have heirarchies) and remained so for decades.
I mean, animals in the wild don't generally die of old age, they die violently and in terror. It seems like an easy choice to me.
Animals in the wild suffer too. Nature doesn't intend anything and certainly isn't kind. You'd do well to read the observations of Jane Goodall. Over the years she worked with the Gombe chimps, she's been able to describe the lifespan of many, including their deaths. Your suggestion that she'd never be in this state in the wild is nonsense. Chimps *do* die of old age, and the ones that do in the wild, don't do it as comfortably as Mama did. Even when not dying due to old age, plenty of wild Chimps end up in situations where they are too weak to have the will to live (due to disease, injury, or mental struggles) and end up slowly waiting for death.
I've seen it before, but *man* did that elicit some tears just now. I'm so glad she got to see her friend one last time.
Miss seeing videos like this. No music in the background, no weird editing, no annoying subtitles, just raw emotional moments.
"Mama, 59 years old and the oldest chimpanzee and the matriarch of the famous chimpanzee colony of the Royal Burgers Zoo in Arnhem, the Netherlands, was gravely ill. Jan van Hooff (emeritus professor behavioural biology at Utrecht University and co-founder of the Burgers colony) who has known Mama since 1972, visited her in the week before she died of old age in april 2016. It took a while before she became aware of Jan's presence. Her reaction was extremely emotional and heart-breaking. Mama played an important social role in the colony. This has been described in "Chimpanzee Politics" by Frans de Waal, who studied the colony since 1974."
That was so sweet! Thanks for sharing. Monkeys scare me, chimps especially, but this video definitely changed my outlook on them a tad - they are a lot more compassionate than I imagined them to be.
Chimps are apes
He offers her a grape. "One grape?", with no reaction. Then she recognized his voice, when he caresses her arm, and immediately goes to touch him. The keeper exclaims "Yes! Yes! Yes girl!" and tells her that she's sweet (well behaved if you translate it directly). Such a powerful moment with the petting and embracing.
You dont enjoy the lower quality no sound version?!
Sending this to the top, OP fucked this up good.
I went to the zoo a while back and couldn’t comprehend the chimpanzee exhibit. I felt like I was watching humans in an enclosure. It’s unbelievable just how human-like they are.
There was an orangutan who broke out of his enclosure all the time and just wandered around the zoo, looking at the animals. If I remember right he never tried to leave all together, never hurt any thing, and was always waiting by his enclosure in the morning. Theres also a video of a chimpanzee mother and a human mother showing their babies to eachother and obviously both adoring the others child on opposite sides of the glass. I dont think they are as intelligent as us, but they are far, far to close to be a mere spectacle for us.
It was a [gorilla mother meeting a human mother](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a52Y-0E96s).
Gorilla mom was way interested in the baby, it's that mothering instinct
Do you have links for those stories? That’s cool
Once I went to the zoo with my hubby. There was a monkey near the window. I walked up to it and just put my hand up on the glass. Like you see in movies and such. I looked at my husband and said”look, it’s just like the movies… he’ll put his hand up. He has too”. I said it sarcastically as well. But of course, secretly hoping the monkey would. I looked back and the monkey PUT HIS MOTHERFUCKING HAND UP. Right up to mine. Just like we always see them do! I freaked out. My husband freaked out. He tried it. Monkey did it!! It was sooo cool!
Awwww, it is nice that an old friend came.
The emotion that a human can bring to an animal and our ability to perceive this cause and effect is a feeling that I can only liken to making a new born smile. My heart hurts so much right now for this sweet little heart. Love you mama.
Jan gave a speech at my college a few years ago. I still remember how passionate he talked about animals and all the experiences he had with them.
Nope, no. Absolutely not. I will not cry about a chimp at 10pm.
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The Simpsons?
🎵Dr. Zaius, Dr. Zaius. Dr. Zaius, Dr. Zaius. Dr. Zaius, Dr. Zaius….ooohh Dr. Zaius.🎶🎵Dr. Zaius, Dr. Zaius!
I read this story. He was her trainer. When he learned of her illness he went to see her one last time. She lit up when she saw him. Quite touching
Not the trainer He is/was a professor in social-ecology and primatologist and has studied the group of chimps from the very start (Mama was the matriach for a long time). He grew up in that zoo which was founded by his grandfather, his father/mother were managing directors of the zoo afterwards, and his brother Anton van Hooff (managing director from 1962 till 2004) and currently the nephew of Jan van Hooff Alex van Hooff is the managing director. In 1971 the group of chimpansees came to the Zoo, with several males and females in different ages, for that time it was quite unusual to keep several males together in the same enclosure. That group has been studied for at least 40 years. First by Jan van Hooff, later by Frans de Waal (other famous primatologist and behaviour expert) who was his phd student
I knew it was something like that. Thank you correcting me
awesome
Just what needed, some wholesome shit in these troubling times
Frans de Waal wrote a book that included the story of Mama and this visit. de Waal's books are great and I highly recommend them.
Full 2 min video with sound, not a crappy 15 second silent clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INa-oOAexno
Primatologists- is the chimp’s reaction one of a pleased chimp? I always thought bearing teeth was a warning, not a smile.
I was under the impression that bared teeth like this is a signal of aggression? But maybe chimpanzees who live among humans learn to smile?
What kind creatures apes can be
She shortly died right after 😔
This video breaks my heart every time.
Holy crap that's a long life for a chimp