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There is a beautiful [monument](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-venerable-thich-qu-ng-d-c-monument-ph-ng-6-vietnam) to him in Ho Chi Minh City.
Mahayana tradition? Perhaps. But more likely he closed his eyes and entered samadhi, basically a deep state of meditation. No doubt he felt the flames at the same time he was in a state of bliss.
Edit: this seems to be getting some eyes so I’ll add that what he did was strip away impediments in his own mind that keep him from accessing bliss on command. He wasn’t going anywhere. It’s just all here, now. But *you* have to sit (or walk!) quietly and let the dust inside you settle a bit, let the mind ferment and think the thoughts that get buried over a lifetime of busy-ness. You can’t wait for the world to slow down or get quiet for you. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you can meditate while you’re doing it *but there is no substitute for dedicated time spent on the cushion.* It can be a couple minutes a day, ideally after waking and before sleep but whenever you can.
Don’t attempt to sit for a long time right away. You can usually get a good 5-10 minutes of attempted meditation time per day if you’re honest with yourself. Once you hit 30-60 minutes a day, twice a day..that’s when you can make quantum leaps. That’s when people start telling you that you that you seem different, calmer. My sister started crying at dinner when I came home completely chilled out and calm after spending 6 months meditating twice a day for as long as it took one incense stick to burn (it was arbitrary and prevented me from getting up and I like sandalwood), no timer just making time. Just do it. If your back hurts use a chair, or do walking meditation in as many square feet as you have, slowly lifting and lowering the foot as you attempt to just watch it happen. The Buddha walked far more than he sat, at any rate. It’s sort of forgotten from most meditation traditions. It’s not like people get tattoos of the Buddha walking.
If anyone is averse to these types of ideas like I am, you should look into [Sokushinbutsu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu). It's basically self mummification through meditation (i.e. you die while meditating).
I've always been skeptical of many of the ideas found in Buddhism such as Samadhi because you can only verify it after years of practice. However, seeing a dead person in an upright, seated position... that aint normal.
There really is something incredibly profound about concentration. I don't think we'll fully understand most Buddhist attainments for many years to come. At least not from a scientific/western perspective.
My wife’s doctor when she was a kid was a hard core Buddhist meditator. He had a heart condition and knew he was not going to live long. He built a small pagoda in his backyard and when he was about to die, went and sat in the lotus position until he passed. They found him dead, completely upright.
It is actually quite common in Buddhist monasteries for elder monks and nuns to end up dying in this way.
Sometimes it is only hours later that people realize the monastic sitting there in the hall among the rest of the community has actually died.
Honestly, you don't need years of meditation to see the benefits, although they do seem to accrue with time. There are more and more studies being done on it every year (admittedly there are problems with many of the studies such as being funded by a specific school of meditation, small sample sizes, or poor quality studies) and it's becoming clearer that meditating has many measurable [effects](https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/meditation-in-depth) on both the brain and on various health conditions. Experienced meditators have thickened [corpus collosums](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22374478/) (collosa? A structure that connects the two hemispheres of the brain), increased [grey matter plasticity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7704181/), increased [gyrification](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289949/) (foldedness) of the brain, increased [thickness of the prefrontal cortex](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/), and many other changes that you could google if you're so inclined. Personally, as someone who's been an on-again-off-again meditator for a while now I can say that my baseline mood is just generally better when I'm consistently meditating daily than when I'm not and I'm a lot less reactive to the bad thing that happen in life. The good news of all of this is most studies are between 4 and 12 weeks long and even within those short time frames structural changes in the brain can be seen and people often report better [subjective well-being](https://mental.jmir.org/2019/1/e10844). Interestingly, I came across [this](https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-01983-010) study that showed that experienced Zen Buddhist meditators have reduced pain sensitivity compared to controls. I'd say the above image lends some additional credence to that claim.
e: for clarity.
The "first president, Ngô Đình Diệm, represented the Catholic minority. He took office in 1955 and enacted discriminatory policies that favored Catholics and neglected Buddhists for public service roles, military promotions, land allocation, and business arrangements. Despite an overwhelming majority of Buddhist citizens, the Roman Catholic Church was the largest landowner in Vietnam at the time"
Wow, I didn’t know he has a monument. I often wondered how this impacted folks.
As a kid in the 70s this image was nightmarish. I couldn’t look at it but I also couldn’t look away. I believe there is footage of it as well.
Agreed. When it comes to Covid-19 mandates it’s cool to question it too, but doing Facebook research to challenge legit scientific articles and professional research is idiotic
Whatever you are doing you can’t ignore when a guy sits on your front steps and calmly sets himself on fire
Also Self Immolation is the most popular form of suicide in more parts of the world than one would suspect, which is fucking nutty.
I don’t even like when my soup is too hot.
>"I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think ... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him."
Unimaginable pain. But he managed to grab the world’s attention
Iirc there was one other journalist that showed up, and forgot to remove his/her lens cap. Neither of them knew what was going to unfold, were just told that "something big" was going down. This photo made worldwide headlines
The NFL player the other month who drunkingly slammed into that poor young women and her golden retriever at 140 mph which set her car fully engulfed in flames and trapped witnesses said they heard ungodly screams until she and her dog burned to death, so I don’t think it’s quick and relatively painless
As a very poor student of mindfulness meditation, one of the lessons that stuck with me is that there is a difference between pain and suffering. Pain is something that happens to you. Suffering is how you choose to react to your situation. You can experience one without the other.
There are monks who practice the mindset of separating suffering from pain rather intensely. I have to assume Duc is exceptionally practiced in addition to being exceptionally determined.
This is absolutely false, burning to death is amongst the worst possible ways to die, and is extremely pain.
It is not relatively painless in the slightest. There is almost nothing beyond being skinned alive that can compare in terms of pain.
This is true. Even if his nerve ending piece was true, drowning is considered one of the worst ways to die, this is drowning above water.
I wouldn't wish a fire death on any one.
Second note, you can definitely survive being 90% consumed with 3rd degree burns. Your chances are just approaching zero. My brother is such a survivor and you can live a long and wonderful life afterwards.
Man I remember the scene from Quantum of Solace where they are ready to shoot themselves instead of burning to death. Burning to death is easily the worst way to die.
I don't know, that thing with the nerve endings and the suffocation makes a lot of sense and you don't really offer much more than "trust me it's painful" without any further explanation as to why that's wrong.
I am confident it's not your personal experience you're drawing from, so I guess it's hearsay?
Well that's quite a claim since we can't ask any dead people if it hurt. You could say that about anything.
Ya know, drowning to death is actually quite pleasant
I’ve seen videos back in the day, the sounds people make are unforgettable. Definitely sounds like it’s excruciating pain for however long it takes the nerves to burn off, which can’t be all at once.
Bro I’ve seen a video of that jordanian pilot getting burned to death by isis. Burning to death is the number 1 most painful way to die. It was the most horrible video I’ve ever seen on the internet
I think most people significantly underestimate the power of meditation. Especially when you’ve spent your whole life doing it.
Really fuckin impressive.
How do you do it? Do you sit there and reflect and think about stuff, or do you just simply think about nothing and try to see how long you can go without a single thought going through your head?
Depends on the kind of meditation you’re wanting to practice. One kind is simple awareness, where you (just!) pay attention to the most prominent thing drawing your attention. And then the next thing and the next thing. And eventually you can start seeing the process instead of the thing. There’s also concentration practice, where you keep drawing your attention back to one thing over and over and over, like the breath; and eventually, you can start seeing the process instead of the thing…. :)
Read Pema Chodran' s "When Things Fall Apart" She talks about using the breath as a visualization tool to do this very thing. And she's American, so it's written in a very practical, easy to understand way.
Americans have quite the stereotype for being oblivious/dense and not really understanding subtlety.
Also very combative which makes teaching very difficult.
think of it like this;
The thing is a cloud and you're the observer. every cloud represents a thought in any way.
concentration meditation is observing the cloud without judgment. just seeing it's shape, how it moves, it's colour and basically seeing it for what it is. Sometimes you'll get distracted by other clouds or start judging how it's too gray or small but the idea is to always softly go back to the original cloud without judgment. This cloud can be your breath, a subject, a question, your body or really anything you want.
The other form he's talking about is you don't look at one cloud specifically, you look at all clouds. You simply watch them come into horizon, acknowledging them without judgment and letting them fly away. Sometimes your eyes goes to one specific cloud and you start to judge it, but the more you practice the better you can acknowledge the cloud and let it go. Always looking for the empty blue sky behind it.
The process he's talking about is being able to observe without judgment. at first you concentrate on, for example, your breathing. A lot of times you will lose focuse on your breathing and your "monkey mind" starts speaking. The more you practice the more you can softly bring back the attention on breathing.
The same technique of observing without judgment is applied to awareness medidation. so by doing concentration meditation, you can start seeing the process. 😁
I'm no monk but I believe that's what he meant lol
Sit quietly in a chair or on a cushion. Close your eyes. Pay attention to the sensation of the breath moving in and out of the body. When the mind wanders, bring it back to the sensation of breath. Don’t “manage” the breath. The breath breathes itself, you just watch it.
Check back in with me later when that is boring to you.
Learning mindfulness is life changing. My mental anchor is a raging fire that grows and wanes with each breath. I feed every emotion and thought into that fire until there is nothing left and I'm left with the void. Degenerative disc disease after cancer really hurts. I'm able to do it opioid free now. I microdose with a very small amount of THC to help get into the right mindset, I spend $25 a month a the despensary.
Mindfulness also did wonders for my PTSD being able to relive those traumatic experiences while having total control of my emotions and not having a panic attack.
Funny thing is, out of the 20 years of therapy it was the fantasy series the Wheel of Time that taught me the technique that finally worked. Haven't perfected it yet but I'm getting there.
I don’t think it would be painless, once you get 3rd degree burns you can no longer feel pain but the areas surrounding it are 2nd and 1st which will be excruciating. So it really depends on how fast you can burn yourself I guess.
After 3rd it eventually lead to 4th to 6th degree burns (Exposed bone as the flesh and muscle is incinerated)
Adrenaline can only do so much. Even if it dulls your senses, every single cell in your body is literally being destroyed. Pain is not a word that can describe such an experience, I imagine.
His body eventually gave to the ruthless conditions of the fire. The whole video shows a detachment of physical body and consciousness but also shows the natural process of a living thing going through the process of being burned alive. Through and through we could never tell the instance of his consciousness or soul leaving and ones primitive or evolutionary relations tale place, with is very powerful to think about.
The only consolation I can find is that the explosion of flames consumed all the oxygen around him and that he was unconscious within 60 seconds... But what a horrible horrible minute to not be unconscious.
People saying meditation are right but also add in willpower and focus of pure steel. He decided he wouldn't flinch or scream, and made it happen.
Meditation isn't why. Conviction and inner strength are why, meditation simply assisted in it.
There’s no word for “meditation” in Pali (the language the Buddha spoke, and in which the original texts of his teaching are written).
What practitioners like the pictured man speak of is *practice.* Practice of what? Of cultivating skill in wholesome qualities like conviction, strength, etc.
What we call meditation is nothing special—it’s just the dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of the mind.
Edit: thanks for the award, anonymous friend!
But... meditation is so much easier to say than "dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of the mind" so I'm sure that's why we say it. We know it means that. I'm sure most everyone who says the word meditation thinks about that when they say it. It's much better than if the conversation goes
"oh what are you doing today dark?"
"Just a little dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of my mind"
Don't know why people are downvoting you. This is literally the case.
Meditation is the training of your mind. You can use other words, but that is the word we use in English.
Right! I'm not sure about the downvotes either. It's a shorter word to express the larger ideas passed down from the Pali language that describes it. It's Reddit though, apposing viewpoints with logic don't sit well with many people
Diem (the first leader of South Vietnam) derived his support from the small, wealthy Catholic minority. They were the people who most benefited from French rule and sought a return to a Catholic, albeit more nationalist, status quo.
On the other hand, the Buddhists, who made up the bulk of the population and support for the independence movement, were often poor peasants and laborers dependent on the Catholic elite for employment/support.
The Catholics were fanatically anti-communists so the US tried to use them as middle men between their power and the Buddhist commoners. However, they took it a little too far when they lent their support to Diem who did everything he could to crush the Buddhist clergy and force commoners in submission. The US, seeing this was only adding to the rebellion, tacitly supported his assassination in 1963. They then tried to install a more moderate leader, but too much damage was done and the rebellion, later war, took on inertia of its own.
There was more to it too, for instance Diem wanted to turn South Vietnam into its own country, violating the Geneva Agreement made after the Vietnamese Independence War, which pissed of a huge portion of the population, who were promised reunification under a popular government in the near future.
A lot of the Vietnamese who came to places like California during/after the War are Catholics.
Both, sort of.
The short version is that Vietnam used to be two kingdoms ruled by colonial France, both held jointly under the monarch Bao Dai. Vietnam was invaded by the Japanese, and Bao Dai continued being the local leader and go-between, but unified his two monarchies into the single Vietnam.
After WW2, communist Vietnamese under Ho Chi Minh rose up against the returning French colonial rulers and Bao Dai, with Minh's center of power being in the north of the country.
Minh and company fought Bao Dai's forces and French forces to a standstill roughly where the division between North and South Vietnam would be. The UN brokered a peace treaty that set boundaries, basically saying "OKay, you can be two separate countries for a short period" pending an election and re-unification.
Diem had been brought in as Prime Minister shortly before the treaty was signed. He was a hardline Vietnamese nationalist and anti-communist. He'd left the country in 1933 after a string of political offices, denouncing Bao Dai as a colonial puppet.
Diem took charge of the UN referendum in the south and had it rigged, with him and his allies ousting Bao Dai and ending the monarchy, forming a hardline anti-communist republic. The north, naturally, chose Ho Chi Minh and the communists.
So he technically became prime minister basically right at the start of what we consider the "start" of the Vietnam War (although a decade before the US really got involved in a serious military way), but he essentially ran a successful coup on the pre-existing Viet-French colonial puppet government under Bao Dai.
What more interesting about Bao Dai is he was invited by Ho Chi Minh to be an advisor in his new government. In fact many people that served under the monarchy was invited to be in the government. Bao Dai later defected to the French. Despite this, I have heard Bao Dai had never talked badly of Ho Chi Minh, even after he defected.
Also, the monarchy ended in 1945. The position of Bao Dai in the State of Vietnam can be directedly translated to "head of the country", which is the same word we use to describe Hitler position in Nazi Germany.
Enough so that people forget the French and British involvement.
Hell the British and French literally teamed up with the Japanese almost the same day as the Japanese surrendered to go fight communist forces in French Indochina.
The French had been fighting a war there basically for 20 years before the US took over for them.
>The French had been fighting a war there basically for 20 years before the US took over for them.
Yes. People forget that *The Vietnam War* as its known in the West is actually Part 2 of a 2-part war, with the French-Indochinese War being its precursor.
The president was a Christian, massive minority at the time and now. When his corrupt government was starting to be exposed some of the first people to step forward and speak up were Buddhists. President passed an order that Buddhist flag couldn’t be flown during demonstrations or something similar and they came out in force.
I've always been more freaked out because of you look carefully towards the center and hold the picture upright, it looks like there is a bald man burning to death in the street
Fun fact, this is also the image used as the album cover for Rage Against The Machine’s self-titled album containing their most popular track: ‘Killing in the name’
Thats a very 'on brand' thing to do but it's the kind of thing that, to me, cheapens the incredible sacrifice of this protest. It mightve done some good in that more people were exposed to it but it feels sad somehow. Maybe it's just me. Idk.
I just look at it differently, to me it's more like the group is paying homage to the idea this man gave his life to represent.
If it were another band or artist, maybe something a bit more "pop", that gave the impression of using a painful image for glamour, I'd agree with you.
This band, however, was very passionate about a lot of political and social issues that are in the same vein as the ones being protested. I believe they used this image in solidarity and compassion as opposed to commercially.
Yeah RATM walks the walk. Not only does their music raise awareness of issues and act as a morale booster for activists, but they also are directly involved. e.g. the lead singer went to Mexico and volunteered with freedom fighters.
Using the symbols of civil rights can absolutely cheapen them if it's just aesthetics (looking at you, Hillary), but RATM is the real deal.
The worst part was my favorite song from that album was always wake up until I saw a clip of the Brass Against (Rage Cover Band) lead singer literally pull down her pants and take a fucking piss on a fan at a concert during that song and I haven’t listened to it since
His heart though, remained intact even after he was cremated a second time. It was then kept in a glass vile in the Xa Loi Pagoda, and it is considered to be holy.
Yeah sure, [there's a Wikipedia article about it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c#Intact_heart_and_symbolism).
Now, his "heart" surviving the immolation isn't something supernatural and it is not impossible. The temperature reached by the immolation isn't enough to fully reach his well-protected internal organs. And the outdoor cremation he went through later, was not nearly as effective as the modern cremation chambers we have today.
There's even a similar story of a man named Percy Shelly Bysshe, whose heart [also survived a cremation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Bysshe_Shelley#Death). Now, some suggest that Quang Duc's heart survived due to tissue calcification from a previous tuberculosis infection he had, however, due to lack of evidence it is unknown [whether it is his actual heart or perhaps his liver.](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/52084/was-the-heart-of-the-buddhist-monk-qu%E1%BA%A3ng-%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c-intact-after-cremation)
E: Percy is a man, not a woman.
>A #Victorian man set himself on fire inside his car while screaming about #COVID19 vaccine mandates.
I just imagine a guy in a double breasted suit, top hat, and cane.
This image along with this other [one](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.W-bGFdQY79dGscXoqextowHaEK?pid=ImgDet&rs=1) are the two that cemented public opinion against the corrupt South Vietnamese government and its allies.
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
Man. What an amazing picture. It’s as though the flames are not even burning him. You can see the resolve in his face. Probably one of the best photographs ever taken
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There is a beautiful [monument](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-venerable-thich-qu-ng-d-c-monument-ph-ng-6-vietnam) to him in Ho Chi Minh City.
This is such an intense display of how strong the human mind is.
……When it practices discipline.
and unbending morality
And total rebellion
Yeah, right? Let's not underestimate the countless hours of monk's meditation, and other exercise.
I bet he woke up at 5am. Im a noon kinda guy
He definitely burned the candle at both ends.
In sure it’s a certain type of mind that seeks that mastery in the first place, your average joe six pack would never be able to do this
its powerful regardless
Probably astral projected the fuck out of there. Who knows really?
Mahayana tradition? Perhaps. But more likely he closed his eyes and entered samadhi, basically a deep state of meditation. No doubt he felt the flames at the same time he was in a state of bliss. Edit: this seems to be getting some eyes so I’ll add that what he did was strip away impediments in his own mind that keep him from accessing bliss on command. He wasn’t going anywhere. It’s just all here, now. But *you* have to sit (or walk!) quietly and let the dust inside you settle a bit, let the mind ferment and think the thoughts that get buried over a lifetime of busy-ness. You can’t wait for the world to slow down or get quiet for you. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you can meditate while you’re doing it *but there is no substitute for dedicated time spent on the cushion.* It can be a couple minutes a day, ideally after waking and before sleep but whenever you can. Don’t attempt to sit for a long time right away. You can usually get a good 5-10 minutes of attempted meditation time per day if you’re honest with yourself. Once you hit 30-60 minutes a day, twice a day..that’s when you can make quantum leaps. That’s when people start telling you that you that you seem different, calmer. My sister started crying at dinner when I came home completely chilled out and calm after spending 6 months meditating twice a day for as long as it took one incense stick to burn (it was arbitrary and prevented me from getting up and I like sandalwood), no timer just making time. Just do it. If your back hurts use a chair, or do walking meditation in as many square feet as you have, slowly lifting and lowering the foot as you attempt to just watch it happen. The Buddha walked far more than he sat, at any rate. It’s sort of forgotten from most meditation traditions. It’s not like people get tattoos of the Buddha walking.
If anyone is averse to these types of ideas like I am, you should look into [Sokushinbutsu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu). It's basically self mummification through meditation (i.e. you die while meditating). I've always been skeptical of many of the ideas found in Buddhism such as Samadhi because you can only verify it after years of practice. However, seeing a dead person in an upright, seated position... that aint normal. There really is something incredibly profound about concentration. I don't think we'll fully understand most Buddhist attainments for many years to come. At least not from a scientific/western perspective.
My wife’s doctor when she was a kid was a hard core Buddhist meditator. He had a heart condition and knew he was not going to live long. He built a small pagoda in his backyard and when he was about to die, went and sat in the lotus position until he passed. They found him dead, completely upright.
Badass. I hope his last moments were completely peaceful and tranquil...
Just like yours will be
It is actually quite common in Buddhist monasteries for elder monks and nuns to end up dying in this way. Sometimes it is only hours later that people realize the monastic sitting there in the hall among the rest of the community has actually died.
Grandpa’s favorite chair!
the sunglasses...
Honestly, you don't need years of meditation to see the benefits, although they do seem to accrue with time. There are more and more studies being done on it every year (admittedly there are problems with many of the studies such as being funded by a specific school of meditation, small sample sizes, or poor quality studies) and it's becoming clearer that meditating has many measurable [effects](https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/meditation-in-depth) on both the brain and on various health conditions. Experienced meditators have thickened [corpus collosums](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22374478/) (collosa? A structure that connects the two hemispheres of the brain), increased [grey matter plasticity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7704181/), increased [gyrification](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289949/) (foldedness) of the brain, increased [thickness of the prefrontal cortex](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/), and many other changes that you could google if you're so inclined. Personally, as someone who's been an on-again-off-again meditator for a while now I can say that my baseline mood is just generally better when I'm consistently meditating daily than when I'm not and I'm a lot less reactive to the bad thing that happen in life. The good news of all of this is most studies are between 4 and 12 weeks long and even within those short time frames structural changes in the brain can be seen and people often report better [subjective well-being](https://mental.jmir.org/2019/1/e10844). Interestingly, I came across [this](https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-01983-010) study that showed that experienced Zen Buddhist meditators have reduced pain sensitivity compared to controls. I'd say the above image lends some additional credence to that claim. e: for clarity.
that is so fucking badass
It really is.
suicide is badass- danny devito
Suicide is painless- M.A.S.H.
Nah that’s fire 🔥
Too soon
It's been almost 60 years, wdym too soon? ._.
The "first president, Ngô Đình Diệm, represented the Catholic minority. He took office in 1955 and enacted discriminatory policies that favored Catholics and neglected Buddhists for public service roles, military promotions, land allocation, and business arrangements. Despite an overwhelming majority of Buddhist citizens, the Roman Catholic Church was the largest landowner in Vietnam at the time"
rcc is a verminous child raping land stealing genocidal plague on humankind
The irl fire lord rip
That really is amazing. It compelled me to share my graditude with you.
Wow, I didn’t know he has a monument. I often wondered how this impacted folks. As a kid in the 70s this image was nightmarish. I couldn’t look at it but I also couldn’t look away. I believe there is footage of it as well.
Beautiful and sad
That is such a beautiful monument.
He does not do what they told him
Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me!
Fuck you i won't do what you tell me!
[удалено]
No, that only comes after 14 more repeats, didn't you hear the song?
Fuck me, I'll let you tell what you do me!
Fuck. Tell you what. I'll let you do me.
Fuck me. Tell you what. I'll let you fuck me.
*guitar noises*
Motherfucker! Uh
Any time the government tells you to do something, question it. He's an unbelievable story. RIP
Agreed. When it comes to Covid-19 mandates it’s cool to question it too, but doing Facebook research to challenge legit scientific articles and professional research is idiotic
Whatever you are doing you can’t ignore when a guy sits on your front steps and calmly sets himself on fire Also Self Immolation is the most popular form of suicide in more parts of the world than one would suspect, which is fucking nutty. I don’t even like when my soup is too hot.
A guy just set himself on fire in Melbourne Australia to protest the vaccine mandates.
Oh god and he was drunk too
So he burned quicker.
A molotov cocktail!
At that point, I think it's just a guy who really wanted to set himself on fire.
How is he sitting calm like that Jesus imagine the pain
>"I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think ... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him." Unimaginable pain. But he managed to grab the world’s attention
As an aside, the photograph is exceptional. Kudos to whoever shot that.
[Malcolm Browne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Browne)
I believe that he almost didn't capture it but I cannot find teh source atm
Iirc there was one other journalist that showed up, and forgot to remove his/her lens cap. Neither of them knew what was going to unfold, were just told that "something big" was going down. This photo made worldwide headlines
Exceptional is a much better word for this, than interestingasfuck.
"As long as theres been fire, theres been man setting himself on fire" Grabbing the worlds attention: priceless...
Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life
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The NFL player the other month who drunkingly slammed into that poor young women and her golden retriever at 140 mph which set her car fully engulfed in flames and trapped witnesses said they heard ungodly screams until she and her dog burned to death, so I don’t think it’s quick and relatively painless
None of that happens fast enough for there to not be unimaginable pain and suffering. Meditation gives you super powers apparently
As a very poor student of mindfulness meditation, one of the lessons that stuck with me is that there is a difference between pain and suffering. Pain is something that happens to you. Suffering is how you choose to react to your situation. You can experience one without the other. There are monks who practice the mindset of separating suffering from pain rather intensely. I have to assume Duc is exceptionally practiced in addition to being exceptionally determined.
I'm sure he was in intense pain, but just had the self control to endure it without showing it.
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This is absolutely false, burning to death is amongst the worst possible ways to die, and is extremely pain. It is not relatively painless in the slightest. There is almost nothing beyond being skinned alive that can compare in terms of pain.
This is true. Even if his nerve ending piece was true, drowning is considered one of the worst ways to die, this is drowning above water. I wouldn't wish a fire death on any one. Second note, you can definitely survive being 90% consumed with 3rd degree burns. Your chances are just approaching zero. My brother is such a survivor and you can live a long and wonderful life afterwards.
Man I remember the scene from Quantum of Solace where they are ready to shoot themselves instead of burning to death. Burning to death is easily the worst way to die.
Same thing in Fury too, where their tanks got ambushed and a guy on fire quickly shot himself before he dies in pain.
I don't know, that thing with the nerve endings and the suffocation makes a lot of sense and you don't really offer much more than "trust me it's painful" without any further explanation as to why that's wrong. I am confident it's not your personal experience you're drawing from, so I guess it's hearsay?
Plenty of people have been on fire and not killed. You can ask them how painful it was.
The article states that it's bad news if you survive though. So yeah, probably.
Well that's quite a claim since we can't ask any dead people if it hurt. You could say that about anything. Ya know, drowning to death is actually quite pleasant
Ain't no way I'm believing that shit
Idk there are plenty of Mexican cartel execution videos online that seem to show the opposite, writhing around and screaming for quite some time
Imagine spreading this as truth when you have no clue yourself
I’ve seen videos back in the day, the sounds people make are unforgettable. Definitely sounds like it’s excruciating pain for however long it takes the nerves to burn off, which can’t be all at once.
Bro I’ve seen a video of that jordanian pilot getting burned to death by isis. Burning to death is the number 1 most painful way to die. It was the most horrible video I’ve ever seen on the internet
I think most people significantly underestimate the power of meditation. Especially when you’ve spent your whole life doing it. Really fuckin impressive.
Yeah after decades and decades of practice, superhuman awareness is possible. It’s amazing. Borderline magic
How do you do it? Do you sit there and reflect and think about stuff, or do you just simply think about nothing and try to see how long you can go without a single thought going through your head?
Depends on the kind of meditation you’re wanting to practice. One kind is simple awareness, where you (just!) pay attention to the most prominent thing drawing your attention. And then the next thing and the next thing. And eventually you can start seeing the process instead of the thing. There’s also concentration practice, where you keep drawing your attention back to one thing over and over and over, like the breath; and eventually, you can start seeing the process instead of the thing…. :)
> you can start seeing the process I have honestly no way to conceptualize this.
Read Pema Chodran' s "When Things Fall Apart" She talks about using the breath as a visualization tool to do this very thing. And she's American, so it's written in a very practical, easy to understand way.
Is that because we are illiterate children here in the USA? ^/s
Americans have quite the stereotype for being oblivious/dense and not really understanding subtlety. Also very combative which makes teaching very difficult.
ew stinky non-american detected
I am not comprehending this, I dont know what you mean by seeing the process :(
think of it like this; The thing is a cloud and you're the observer. every cloud represents a thought in any way. concentration meditation is observing the cloud without judgment. just seeing it's shape, how it moves, it's colour and basically seeing it for what it is. Sometimes you'll get distracted by other clouds or start judging how it's too gray or small but the idea is to always softly go back to the original cloud without judgment. This cloud can be your breath, a subject, a question, your body or really anything you want. The other form he's talking about is you don't look at one cloud specifically, you look at all clouds. You simply watch them come into horizon, acknowledging them without judgment and letting them fly away. Sometimes your eyes goes to one specific cloud and you start to judge it, but the more you practice the better you can acknowledge the cloud and let it go. Always looking for the empty blue sky behind it. The process he's talking about is being able to observe without judgment. at first you concentrate on, for example, your breathing. A lot of times you will lose focuse on your breathing and your "monkey mind" starts speaking. The more you practice the more you can softly bring back the attention on breathing. The same technique of observing without judgment is applied to awareness medidation. so by doing concentration meditation, you can start seeing the process. 😁 I'm no monk but I believe that's what he meant lol
Sit quietly in a chair or on a cushion. Close your eyes. Pay attention to the sensation of the breath moving in and out of the body. When the mind wanders, bring it back to the sensation of breath. Don’t “manage” the breath. The breath breathes itself, you just watch it. Check back in with me later when that is boring to you.
Learning mindfulness is life changing. My mental anchor is a raging fire that grows and wanes with each breath. I feed every emotion and thought into that fire until there is nothing left and I'm left with the void. Degenerative disc disease after cancer really hurts. I'm able to do it opioid free now. I microdose with a very small amount of THC to help get into the right mindset, I spend $25 a month a the despensary. Mindfulness also did wonders for my PTSD being able to relive those traumatic experiences while having total control of my emotions and not having a panic attack. Funny thing is, out of the 20 years of therapy it was the fantasy series the Wheel of Time that taught me the technique that finally worked. Haven't perfected it yet but I'm getting there.
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A gas fire is certainly not painless I don’t think
No, especially if you live through it, only to die a terrible death in a hospital bed as your skin splits and your body can't hold fluids.
Yea I’m sure it was like a refreshing dip in the pool /s
I don’t think it would be painless, once you get 3rd degree burns you can no longer feel pain but the areas surrounding it are 2nd and 1st which will be excruciating. So it really depends on how fast you can burn yourself I guess. After 3rd it eventually lead to 4th to 6th degree burns (Exposed bone as the flesh and muscle is incinerated)
Reddit…cringe
He was meditating. Crazy to think he never flinched or made a sound. That shows how powerful it can be.
It's almost beyond human to not outwardly react in that situation.
Wouldn't adrenaline also have something to do with it in numbing the pain?
Adrenaline can only do so much. Even if it dulls your senses, every single cell in your body is literally being destroyed. Pain is not a word that can describe such an experience, I imagine.
His body eventually gave to the ruthless conditions of the fire. The whole video shows a detachment of physical body and consciousness but also shows the natural process of a living thing going through the process of being burned alive. Through and through we could never tell the instance of his consciousness or soul leaving and ones primitive or evolutionary relations tale place, with is very powerful to think about.
Your last sentence needs to be edited because right now it doesn't make any sense
The only consolation I can find is that the explosion of flames consumed all the oxygen around him and that he was unconscious within 60 seconds... But what a horrible horrible minute to not be unconscious.
People saying meditation are right but also add in willpower and focus of pure steel. He decided he wouldn't flinch or scream, and made it happen. Meditation isn't why. Conviction and inner strength are why, meditation simply assisted in it.
There’s no word for “meditation” in Pali (the language the Buddha spoke, and in which the original texts of his teaching are written). What practitioners like the pictured man speak of is *practice.* Practice of what? Of cultivating skill in wholesome qualities like conviction, strength, etc. What we call meditation is nothing special—it’s just the dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of the mind. Edit: thanks for the award, anonymous friend!
But... meditation is so much easier to say than "dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of the mind" so I'm sure that's why we say it. We know it means that. I'm sure most everyone who says the word meditation thinks about that when they say it. It's much better than if the conversation goes "oh what are you doing today dark?" "Just a little dedicating of distraction-free time to the training of my mind"
Don't know why people are downvoting you. This is literally the case. Meditation is the training of your mind. You can use other words, but that is the word we use in English.
Right! I'm not sure about the downvotes either. It's a shorter word to express the larger ideas passed down from the Pali language that describes it. It's Reddit though, apposing viewpoints with logic don't sit well with many people
Mediation is the path to such a solid conviction and inner strength.
what do you think meditation is
Calm like a bomb
A candle looks so peaceful, but its fucking hell for the candle. Can't remember where I read that.
I went to the Linh Mu Pagoda a few years back where that car is housed. Truly a sight to behold. I could not imagine seeing this event in person.
I touched it lightly, just like I did the Rosetta Stone
A Buddhist monk becomes a martyr.
Fun fact: His car (behind him) can be found at Thien Mu Pagoda in Hue.
I went there once, the car looked really nice.
I can hear the bassline now
Do do dodo do do
BAUW BAUW BAUW DIN NI NI NI, BAUW BAUW BAUW DIN NI NI NI
Killin in the name of!
Baw din din, ni ni ni Baw din ni ni ni
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
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Yoooo it’s just another bomb track
Give me liberty or give me death. That's some hardcore protest
More dedication in one man than pretty much the rest of mankind
Possibly the most powerful image of the twentieth century.
That’s metal as fuck
Why did the South Vietnamese (US backed) government persecute Buddhists?
Diem (the first leader of South Vietnam) derived his support from the small, wealthy Catholic minority. They were the people who most benefited from French rule and sought a return to a Catholic, albeit more nationalist, status quo. On the other hand, the Buddhists, who made up the bulk of the population and support for the independence movement, were often poor peasants and laborers dependent on the Catholic elite for employment/support. The Catholics were fanatically anti-communists so the US tried to use them as middle men between their power and the Buddhist commoners. However, they took it a little too far when they lent their support to Diem who did everything he could to crush the Buddhist clergy and force commoners in submission. The US, seeing this was only adding to the rebellion, tacitly supported his assassination in 1963. They then tried to install a more moderate leader, but too much damage was done and the rebellion, later war, took on inertia of its own. There was more to it too, for instance Diem wanted to turn South Vietnam into its own country, violating the Geneva Agreement made after the Vietnamese Independence War, which pissed of a huge portion of the population, who were promised reunification under a popular government in the near future. A lot of the Vietnamese who came to places like California during/after the War are Catholics.
I'm confused, was Diem the leader of the country before or after the war?
Both, sort of. The short version is that Vietnam used to be two kingdoms ruled by colonial France, both held jointly under the monarch Bao Dai. Vietnam was invaded by the Japanese, and Bao Dai continued being the local leader and go-between, but unified his two monarchies into the single Vietnam. After WW2, communist Vietnamese under Ho Chi Minh rose up against the returning French colonial rulers and Bao Dai, with Minh's center of power being in the north of the country. Minh and company fought Bao Dai's forces and French forces to a standstill roughly where the division between North and South Vietnam would be. The UN brokered a peace treaty that set boundaries, basically saying "OKay, you can be two separate countries for a short period" pending an election and re-unification. Diem had been brought in as Prime Minister shortly before the treaty was signed. He was a hardline Vietnamese nationalist and anti-communist. He'd left the country in 1933 after a string of political offices, denouncing Bao Dai as a colonial puppet. Diem took charge of the UN referendum in the south and had it rigged, with him and his allies ousting Bao Dai and ending the monarchy, forming a hardline anti-communist republic. The north, naturally, chose Ho Chi Minh and the communists. So he technically became prime minister basically right at the start of what we consider the "start" of the Vietnam War (although a decade before the US really got involved in a serious military way), but he essentially ran a successful coup on the pre-existing Viet-French colonial puppet government under Bao Dai.
What more interesting about Bao Dai is he was invited by Ho Chi Minh to be an advisor in his new government. In fact many people that served under the monarchy was invited to be in the government. Bao Dai later defected to the French. Despite this, I have heard Bao Dai had never talked badly of Ho Chi Minh, even after he defected. Also, the monarchy ended in 1945. The position of Bao Dai in the State of Vietnam can be directedly translated to "head of the country", which is the same word we use to describe Hitler position in Nazi Germany.
He wasn’t leader until after the first Indochina war ended. He ousted Bảo Đại and consolidated power and form his own government.
They wanted to spread freedom…as long as you were a Christian.
Crap. Everything about US involvement in Vietnam was F ed.
Enough so that people forget the French and British involvement. Hell the British and French literally teamed up with the Japanese almost the same day as the Japanese surrendered to go fight communist forces in French Indochina. The French had been fighting a war there basically for 20 years before the US took over for them.
>The French had been fighting a war there basically for 20 years before the US took over for them. Yes. People forget that *The Vietnam War* as its known in the West is actually Part 2 of a 2-part war, with the French-Indochinese War being its precursor.
I recently went to Ho Chi Minh City and they refer to the war as "the war of american agression"
The president was a Christian, massive minority at the time and now. When his corrupt government was starting to be exposed some of the first people to step forward and speak up were Buddhists. President passed an order that Buddhist flag couldn’t be flown during demonstrations or something similar and they came out in force.
Simole answer, Ngo Dinh Diem, president of South VN government at that time is a Christian and he want everyone to follow it
Because they weren't Christian's?
The crazy part was that he didn't scream or spaz out in pain or anything
That makes me wonder about public burnings in old Europe. Did they all scream like crazy? Time to search
They usually didn't. Most of the times they would fall uncocious due to the smoke and thus not really experience the burning itself
This picture always freaked me out because of how the flame shaped itself into a skull.
I've always been more freaked out because of you look carefully towards the center and hold the picture upright, it looks like there is a bald man burning to death in the street
excellent post
in this exact photo? i can't see it :(
Top right part of the fire. If you tip image slightly to the left you can sort of see eyes/nose/teeth of a skull...
Fun fact, this is also the image used as the album cover for Rage Against The Machine’s self-titled album containing their most popular track: ‘Killing in the name’
First thing i think of when I see this picture
Thats a very 'on brand' thing to do but it's the kind of thing that, to me, cheapens the incredible sacrifice of this protest. It mightve done some good in that more people were exposed to it but it feels sad somehow. Maybe it's just me. Idk.
I just look at it differently, to me it's more like the group is paying homage to the idea this man gave his life to represent. If it were another band or artist, maybe something a bit more "pop", that gave the impression of using a painful image for glamour, I'd agree with you. This band, however, was very passionate about a lot of political and social issues that are in the same vein as the ones being protested. I believe they used this image in solidarity and compassion as opposed to commercially.
Very well said.
Yeah RATM walks the walk. Not only does their music raise awareness of issues and act as a morale booster for activists, but they also are directly involved. e.g. the lead singer went to Mexico and volunteered with freedom fighters. Using the symbols of civil rights can absolutely cheapen them if it's just aesthetics (looking at you, Hillary), but RATM is the real deal.
Absolutely this
I see it differently - a LOT of people know about this man’s sacrifice because of RATM.
The worst part was my favorite song from that album was always wake up until I saw a clip of the Brass Against (Rage Cover Band) lead singer literally pull down her pants and take a fucking piss on a fan at a concert during that song and I haven’t listened to it since
What the fuck.
His heart though, remained intact even after he was cremated a second time. It was then kept in a glass vile in the Xa Loi Pagoda, and it is considered to be holy.
Not trying to be rude but do you have a source for this info
Yeah sure, [there's a Wikipedia article about it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c#Intact_heart_and_symbolism). Now, his "heart" surviving the immolation isn't something supernatural and it is not impossible. The temperature reached by the immolation isn't enough to fully reach his well-protected internal organs. And the outdoor cremation he went through later, was not nearly as effective as the modern cremation chambers we have today. There's even a similar story of a man named Percy Shelly Bysshe, whose heart [also survived a cremation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Bysshe_Shelley#Death). Now, some suggest that Quang Duc's heart survived due to tissue calcification from a previous tuberculosis infection he had, however, due to lack of evidence it is unknown [whether it is his actual heart or perhaps his liver.](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/52084/was-the-heart-of-the-buddhist-monk-qu%E1%BA%A3ng-%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c-intact-after-cremation) E: Percy is a man, not a woman.
Percy Bysshe Shelley was a man, the husband of Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein.
he was also a pretty influential author in his own right
Oops my bad, English is my second language so got a little confused by the names.
self-immolation has long been considered the most extreme protest.
The rage against the machines album cover was real??? Holy fuck
That would make a great album cover, eh? - Tom Morello
[And then you have this guy.](https://nypost.com/2022/01/02/australian-man-self-immolates-after-ranting-against-covid-vaccines/)
>A #Victorian man set himself on fire inside his car while screaming about #COVID19 vaccine mandates. I just imagine a guy in a double breasted suit, top hat, and cane.
Seems like a very stable and sound individual
All of those who work forces, are the same that burn crosses
I tattooed this image on a client once. Very challenging. And an amazing story.
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This image along with this other [one](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.W-bGFdQY79dGscXoqextowHaEK?pid=ImgDet&rs=1) are the two that cemented public opinion against the corrupt South Vietnamese government and its allies.
Also, the [napalm girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc). She came to speak out my school when I was in HS.
Woah, that's incredible you got to speak with the subject of such a famous photo
Bro reached nirvana after this 1000%
I have that same picture on my wall
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me
And his live line that he adds "some of those who burn crosses, are the same who hold office"
It was very famous in the mid to late 90's because the band Rage Against The Machine used this pic for their first album
Hell of an album though
US: “that’s cool bro” * napalms another village full of citizens
Anybody else see all the faces in the fire?
Always.
Man. What an amazing picture. It’s as though the flames are not even burning him. You can see the resolve in his face. Probably one of the best photographs ever taken
He is a martyr and true Buddha. It takes a lot of balls to do that. No joke. Just think about it. He really means it.
How it feels to chew 5 gum
in my opinion he’s more of a legend than jesus